Evening Seminar: Walking With Gay Friends

Seemingly difficult or awkward, I'm prepared to take it, so please do feel free to ask later on.

In the last couple of generations, there has been a dramatic shift in people's attitudes towards gay people.

It's evident, I think, in a whole host of ways.

So openly gay celebrities now are no longer sidelined.

There would have been a time when, if a celebrity was gay, they would have done pretty much anything to cover that up and to keep that from other people.

But now you tend to find that if a celebrity comes out and admits to being gay, it tends to add to their popular appeal and to their commercial value.

And if ever you wanted proof that a culture has changed so dramatically, surely it is Welsh Rugby International there, Gareth Thomas,

being able to publicly come out and declare himself to be gay, as he did a few years ago.

That really provides all the proof that you need.

That would never really have happened, probably not even ten years ago, let alone a generation ago.

Gay romance films are now pretty much mainstream.

Probably five, ten years ago, a film such as Brokeback Mountain would have been consigned to the specialist arty cinemas.

But it was in fact a mainstream Hollywood blockbuster, this film of gay romance.

I'm sure none of us here will have seen that or admit to having seen it if we have.

Same-sex relationships are, of course, now legally recognised too.

Legislation has changed all around the world.

People have introduced legislation for civil partnerships.

And, of course, a number of governments have already introduced legislation for full same-sex marriage,

with a number of other governments talking about doing the same thing.

And a number of world leaders now have come out and said that they are in favour of same-sex marriage.

Oh, Johnny's taken away my picture of President Obama.

There was a picture there.

We had a little bit of adjustment on the colour.

So that is President Obama, who says,

I hesitated on gay marriage, but I've just concluded that for me personally,

it's important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.

That was President Obama in an ABC News interview earlier this year.

And that caused quite a storm over in the USA,

with President Obama making that very clear declaration.

So this cultural backdrop in mind, it's no surprise to us, I'm sure,

that the Church finds itself really under immense pressure to change our stance on same-sex relationships.

There's cultural pressure.

There is legislative pressure.

There's media pressure.

There's pressure from many influential voices, even within the Church.

And to Christian leaders who maintain that same-sex sexual relationships go against God's revealed will in the Bible,

the accusation is levelled that we're maybe out of touch, intolerant, or even homophobic and anti-gay.

Now, as evangelical Christians, the temptation, of course, when we're confronted with this kind of cultural tidal wave of popular opinion,

the temptation, I think, is either to retreat and become silently ashamed of the Gospel

and of Gospel teaching on human sexuality,

or we may be tempted simply to go on the offensive

and focus all of our efforts on maybe lobbying Parliament,

protesting at various proposed changes to the law.

But if we're true evangelicals, then we ought, I believe, really to challenge ourselves by asking this question.

Do I believe that the Gospel, that is the good news of Jesus Christ,

do I believe that the Gospel is good news for gay people too?

Is it good news for Christians, and perhaps there are some Christians here this evening,

who struggle with same-sex attraction, struggle with their sexual identity?

I'm trying at this point not to make any eye contact with anybody in particular,

in case you think, he's looking at me, he's looking at me, I'm not looking at anybody, just to be sure.

Well, as we focus on this subject of walking with gay friends,

I want to focus our thinking really around three main questions this evening,

just to give you an idea of where we're going in the structure.

Firstly, I'm going to ask, what are the causes of same-sex attraction?

What is it that causes some people to be attracted to those of the same sex rather than the opposite sex?

Is there a gay gene?

We're going to talk about that subject and hopefully help explode some of the myths around it.

Secondly, we're going to think, what does the Bible teach about same-sex practice?

Not what do we think it teaches, what do we heard it teaches?

What does it actually say when we look at various Bible passages?

And then thirdly, we're going to finish by thinking particularly,

what hope does the Gospel hold out to those for whom this is a personal issue?

So if we are seeking to walk with gay friends, by gay friends, what I mean by that is perhaps

those that we know, I'm sure a number of us will have colleagues or neighbours or friends

or family members who identify as gay or lesbian or bisexual.

How can we actually get alongside them?

What hope does the Gospel hold out to them?

But also what hope does the Gospel hold out to those who are Christians,

who perhaps don't identify as gay, but who admit to having a struggle

in this whole area of same-sex attraction?

So that's where we're going this evening.

But before we tackle the first of those questions,

I think it might be helpful just to spend a little bit of time tonight

giving you a little bit of my own background and telling something of my own story.

Because I want you to know that I don't teach on this subject

from the comfort of some kind of theological bubble.

This is an intensely personal issue for me.

I grew up in a church-going family, so I was taken to church from a very young age.

I was taken to Sunday school, so I grew up really with a belief in God

from as young as I can remember, a belief in the truth of the Bible.

But from around about the age of 10 or 11, I became conscious of feeling attractions

to some of my male friends rather than to my female friends.

That was quite a shock to me.

It was quite a confusing time.

Not something I'd ever chosen, but just something simply that was there.

And so I began as a 10, 11, 12-year-old to sort of battle through these thoughts.

What does this actually mean?

How can this possibly happen to me?

I believe in God, and I know that the Bible is very negative about homosexual practice.

So, you know, how can I reconcile these two things together?

And that was a real struggle for me.

And I didn't feel at that age that I could share what was going on with anybody else.

I certainly couldn't talk to my parents.

Couldn't really talk to friends at school.

Things were a lot less open than they would probably be today.

And to be honest, the very last place I was going to go was going to be the church,

because the only time that I'd ever heard Christians talking about homosexuality,

it was always in a very judgmental or very harsh or sometimes very condemning way.

So I was left, if you like, as I entered into teenage years to try and work through these things by myself

and work through what this meant for me.

And around about the age of 17, I think it was, I began to identify inwardly as being gay.

I remember picking up a book off my parents' bookshelves, and it was all about sort of puberty, adolescence.

I remember reading in there that some people might have a phase of feeling attracted to the same sex.

I remember reading, you know, I'm thinking, well, if this is a phase, it's a very long phase, it's not going away.

And then I came across this word gay.

And I believe that that was probably the label that I ought then to attribute to myself.

I didn't want to tell anybody else that.

I certainly didn't want to be open about it.

In fact, I wanted to do everything possible to hide that from other people.

But inwardly, I certainly felt that I must be gay.

And I was then faced with a choice, really, at 17.

I either keep going to church, keep reading the Bible, keep, quote, trying to be good.

That's what I thought a Christian was in those days.

Or I was going to explore this emerging sexuality.

I didn't want to be promiscuous.

I didn't want to have many partners.

Actually, my dream, if you like, as a 17-year-old boy was simply to find one special person to get to know and to spend my life with.

And I did meet a guy of my own age.

We became great friends.

Over a period of time, we fell in love and we entered into this long-term relationship together.

And that relationship lasted from age 17 through to 24.

But at age 24, there was quite a dramatic turnaround, really, in my life.

And that was initiated over a period of time, really.

I think God working in my heart and mind, convicting me that the way I was living was displeasing to him.

And I don't think simply because of my sexuality, but just because my whole life really wasn't focused on him.

I pretty much moved away from the church at that stage, wasn't reading the Bible, didn't even have any sense of trying to be good, if you like, trying to be a Christian.

And so God brought me under conviction.

And I remember one Sunday morning simply walking into a church.

This was in Bournemouth on the south coast of England where I was living at the time.

And actually, I remember I was living opposite this particular church with my partner at the time.

And we had an apartment that overlooked the entrance.

And often we'd, I would look out on a Sunday morning and see all of these Christians, quite a big Baptist church down in Bournemouth.

And they would flood out of this church.

And they'd be laughing and joking and smiling.

One of those churches, you know, where people are happy when they come out.

There are still a few.

I'm sure you all come from churches like that as well, don't you?

But I remember looking at these Christians and thinking there's something about them that was appealing.

And in fact, I felt quite envious.

Here I was.

I was in a loving relationship.

I was very happy in that relationship.

I had quite a good job.

I had a nice car.

I had a good income.

I was able to have foreign holidays.

In a worldly sense, I had pretty much everything I ever had dreamt of.

And yet, deep down, I knew that I was unhappy.

And God was also convicting me, really, that the life I was living was a life that wasn't pleasing to him.

So I walked into that church one Sunday morning.

I can't remember an awful lot about the service itself, except for me there was a very tangible sense of the presence of God in that place on that day.

And that was very powerful to me.

And I remember talking to one of the ministers of the church.

And we subsequently met up the following week.

I met him in his study at the church.

He didn't know anything about my background.

I didn't tell him anything about my background.

And he simply asked, look, do you mind if I read something to you from God's word?

And I said, yeah, sure, that's fine.

So he opened up the Bible and he read to me some verses from Jeremiah chapter 29, some very well-known verses.

Jeremiah 29 · chapter mention

I'm sure you'll be familiar to us.

Jeremiah chapter 29, where God says,

Jeremiah 29 · chapter mention

And I remember hearing those words as if they were God's direct call, really, to me.

I remember at the time breaking down in tears, not something I was in the habit of doing and certainly not in front of anybody else.

But it was very, very powerful that this was God's calling me, if you like, to put my trust in him.

I, by that stage, already heard the gospel.

So I knew what it meant by then to be a Christian through faith in Jesus Christ.

And so I took those words, really, as God's call to put my trust in him through Christ for forgiveness of sins and salvation.

And that was the beginning, really, of quite a dramatic turnaround in my life.

So I knew immediately, nobody had to tell me, that becoming a Christian meant that I had to get out of that same-sex relationship.

That was quite a difficult thing to do, but I knew it was the right thing to do.

But I want to stress that becoming a Christian wasn't, in any sense, a negative experience.

I think sometimes, as Christians, we talk about all the things we give up.

And, of course, there is a cost to following Christ.

There are things to be given up.

But for me, becoming a Christian was a very positive experience as well.

I mean, just really as that prophecy from Jeremiah said, God had plans to prosper me and not to harm me, plans to give me hope and a future.

And that's certainly been my experience as I look back over the last 20 years or so now that I've become a Christian.

Just to give you one example, I didn't have any clue up until that stage what I should be doing vocationally.

I'd gone through a whole phase of being involved in different things, different jobs.

And I remember as a youngster, I had all these dreams.

In fact, I wanted to do all the typically gay things.

So I wanted to be an air steward.

I wanted to be a travel rep.

I wanted to be an actor.

I went off to audition for a drama school.

I'm not saying, by the way, if you want to be any of these things, that means you're gay.

Please don't misunderstand me.

But those were the typically gay things when I was growing up.

So I was a bit lost, really, in terms of what I was meant to be doing vocationally.

But I remember on that day having a really clear conviction that God was wanting me to go and teach his word,

the word that had worked so powerfully in turning my own life around, to teach that to other people.

I didn't know quite what that meant at that stage.

But I remember saying to this guy, the day I became a Christian, I want to be a missionary.

What do I do?

And he said, well, probably you need to hold on for a little while.

You've just become a Christian.

That was good advice, but you never want to hear that when you're a young Christian because you think you know everything.

But I did hold on.

And then a few years later, I went up to London to study at Bible College

and then went on to serve in a church over in East London

where I served as an assistant minister and youth worker for a number of years

and then subsequently as the pastor of that church.

And that was before joining the staff of the True Freedom Trust four years ago now

and then took over as the director of that organisation three years ago.

Let me tell you a little bit about True Freedom Trust

and then we're going to get into our question.

True Freedom Trust is basically an organisation, Christian ministry,

that is passionate about two things.

Firstly, helping Christians to think biblically and compassionately

about the whole area of sexuality, particularly same-sex attraction.

So we do an awful lot of teaching in churches, in Bible colleges,

in Christian unions, in youth groups, in schools,

really trying to communicate a biblical view of sexuality

but also a grace-filled view.

We believe you can be both full of grace and full of truth

as you think about issues of sexuality.

So we do that, a lot of teaching, but we also work then with individuals

who are struggling in these areas.

So that will be people who, like myself perhaps,

have come out of a background, being involved in a same-sex relationship

or just in any sense being involved in any kind of gay lifestyle.

Or in fact, more of the people that we support will be Christians

who perhaps have never been involved in a same-sex relationship

but have been conscious of a struggle in this area

and we seek to provide biblical encouragement and pastoral support.

And I'll put up at the end of the talk details of our website

where you might want to go and have a look.

There's an awful lot of information on there and testimonies and articles

and so on, ways that you can support us and pray for us as a ministry

which we would really appreciate.

Okay, well let's move on now to think about the first of our three questions.

What are the causes of same-sex attraction?

Well, there's a wide-ranging consensus among most of the respected experts in this field

that we need to accept what is known technically as a multi-causation model.

In plain English, that simply refers to a recognition

that there are a number of different factors

which contribute to how our sexual attractions and desires develop.

Okay, a number of different factors.

So some people will focus on biological and genetic factors.

Now, the fact is there is no one gene or set of genes

that in and of themselves have been discovered, if you like,

that make somebody gay.

Okay, that is a fact.

It simply isn't there.

People have made various claims over the years

but there is no one gene or set of genes

which in and of themselves make somebody gay.

An awful lot of research is being done

into the biological and genetic potential causes

towards homosexual attractions.

I think we should be prepared to accept as Christians

that there may well be biological and genetic factors

just as there would be, in fact, in every other part of our makeup.

So the way we look is affected by genes.

The temperament that we have can be affected by genes.

There is no reason to say that actually there can't be,

in some measure, some genetic factors

that may influence the development of same-sex attraction.

Now, some Christians have a real problem with that

because they say, oh, well, what does that mean?

Does that mean then that God makes people gay?

Well, no, absolutely not.

I don't think it means that at all.

We need to remember as Christians that we are born

into a fallen, broken world.

Not one of us here was born with a perfect set of genes.

Now, some of you are looking really surprised at this point.

I am sorry to disappoint you.

You were not born with a perfect set of genes.

Each of us are born into a fallen, sinful world.

What did David, the psalmist, say?

He said, surely I was sinful at birth.

Sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

So even if it were proved one day,

and personally I doubt that it ever will be,

but if it were proved that there is a gay gene,

that people are born with a fixed orientation,

that doesn't lead us to conclude that therefore God makes people gay.

It simply would be a reflection of the fact

that we are born into a fallen, broken world.

And in a fallen, broken world,

every aspect of who we are is impacted by the fall,

including our sexuality.

So for some people that will, if you like,

be visible in terms of the fact

that they are attracted to the same sex

rather than the opposite sex.

This is a quote here.

I don't know if you can read that.

I can read it out if that would be helpful.

But this is by a guy called Dr. Francis S. Collins.

He is head of the Human Genome Project.

So this is a guy who really knows

what he is talking about in this area.

And he is referring here to a study that was undertaken

of identical twins over in the USA.

Basically, this was where one of the twins

was predominantly or exclusively attracted

to those of the same sex.

What was the likelihood that the other twin

would also be predominantly or exclusively attracted

to those of the same sex?

And he concluded, having looked at this study

and finding that, in fact,

about 20% of the twins

were actually same-sex attracted.

And that was quite high

because it was compared to 4% of males

in the general population.

Indicating, he says,

that sexual orientation

is genetically influenced

but not hardwired by DNA.

And that whatever genes are involved

represent predispositions,

not predeterminations.

I think that's a really helpful phrase.

That phrase there,

not hardwired by DNA.

So it's not as simple as saying

people are born either go straight.

In fact, I want to challenge this evening

and I want us all to think about this,

challenge this whole concept

of a binary model, if you like,

of gay or straight

or possibly you'd have to add in a third

of bi, as some people would call themselves bi.

This whole idea that people have a fixed orientation

is actually a little bit of a myth.

Yes, it's true that most people,

I would imagine most people here,

if we look at it as a spectrum,

most people will be exclusively

or predominantly attracted

to those of the opposite sex.

There will be some people,

maybe even here,

who will be predominantly

or exclusively attracted

to the same sex,

a lot less people.

But actually there'll be some people

who will be somewhere in between.

And actually,

over our lifetimes,

our sexual attractions

can fluctuate as well.

So I know of a number of people

who in their teens

have had some experience

of same-sex attraction,

perhaps have developed a crush,

somebody of the same sex,

but actually they've got into

their twenties and beyond

and found that there's no hint

of same-sex desire.

That's actually just proved

to be a phase which has passed.

This is one of the reasons

I get really concerned

when there's pressure

on young people

to come out

and declare themselves to be gay.

And, you know,

in some schools

it's not uncommon, as I say,

for people in their early teens,

pre-teens even,

to come out and declare

that they're gay.

And I think that's far too soon

because it's not giving

young people an opportunity

to allow their sexuality

and their sexual attractions

to develop.

So it's not as simple as saying

that there is a gay gene,

but certainly we have to be open

to the fact that,

as with everything else,

our sexual attractions

can be influenced

by genetic biological factors.

Other factors would include

environmental factors.

So this is all to do, really,

with upbringing.

And what you find

that often people's views

get polarised, really,

between these two causes.

So it's what's often known

as the nature-nurture debate.

You've probably heard that

and it relates to a number

of other areas as well.

This argument as to whether

somebody is born gay

or whether their environment

and upbringing

makes somebody gay.

So, for example,

environmental factors

could include

maybe somebody going

to a same-sex school,

a same-sex boarding school.

Now, as it happens,

I went to a same-sex boarding school

from the age of 8 to 13.

And as I look back on that time,

I'm convinced personally

that that had quite an influence

in terms of how my own

sexual attractions developed.

Not least, I can remember,

this was in Oxford

where I was born and brought up.

And I remember on a Saturday morning

we were told

that we were allowed

to go out into Oxford

and look around the shops

after school,

would you believe,

on a Saturday morning,

horrendously.

We were allowed to go out

and look around the shops

and we had to go in a group

of a minimum of four boys

at the head.

And whatever you do,

whatever you do

under no circumstances,

talk to girls.

That was the instruction given.

So just remember,

this is now a group

of sort of pre-professant,

almost adolescent boys,

hormones raging

all over the place.

Don't direct any of that

towards girls.

That was the message

that was being given out.

And you can see

how that's an unhelpful start,

if you like,

to an adolescent.

Now, I cannot take

that experience,

and as I say,

there are lots of factors

which I think

played a part in my life,

but I can't take that

and say, well,

same-sex schools

clearly make people gay.

It's not as simple as that.

In fact,

most of the people

who went to that same school,

some of us here

maybe have been

to same-sex schools,

and it has no influence

at all

on how our sexual

attractions develop.

But certainly in my case,

I believe it did,

and it may well be a factor

for certain people.

Other factors,

for example,

I know of a number of people

who've grown up

in an all-female environment.

This is boys growing up

in an all-female environment,

or indeed girls

growing up

in an all-male environment.

That tends to happen

slightly less.

But if you take the example

of maybe a boy growing up

and dad has left,

and he's maybe got

a couple of sisters,

so it's mum

and a couple of sisters,

that's the only influence

he has in the home

as he grows up.

And for some people,

that seems then

to affect the way

that their sexual

attractions develop.

But again,

you've got to be very careful

because there are equally

as many people,

maybe even more people,

who have been born

into that situation

or find themselves

in that situation,

but who it's not

impacted their

sexual attractions

at all.

And then relational factors.

Now this is,

again,

a lot of this

is theory.

It's very difficult

to prove one way or another.

Research has been done

around this area,

but this is to do

now with relationships

mainly within the family,

but also with peer groups.

So for example,

there are some people

who are convinced

that not having

a very good relationship

with their same-sex parents

influences their sexuality.

So I've certainly,

within my work

in Truthroom Trust,

I've met a number of guys

who, for one reason or another,

have not had a great

relationship with dad,

and they seem to think

that that has influenced

the way that their

sexual attractions develop.

The same with girls

not having a very good

relationship with mum.

Very difficult to prove this.

Certainly it is quite

a recurring theme

amongst people

who struggle in this area.

But of course,

just because there's a link

doesn't mean there's necessarily

that that's a cause.

Link doesn't necessarily

mean cause,

but it certainly does

seem to crop up.

One of my fears in this area

is that it can lead

to a sort of

blame-the-parents culture.

Oh, well, it's my dad's fault

because he wasn't there for me.

What we're saying is

it could be a factor

for certain people,

but it's not meant then

to lead to blame

and say,

well, it's because of this

that this has impacted me.

Another area of relational factors

could be abuse.

I mean, I've known

of a number of people,

for example,

who've suffered abuse

in their early years.

And you can imagine,

for example,

take, for example,

a woman who's maybe

been abused

by somebody

of the opposite sex.

You can imagine

how easily

that could lead to her

maybe growing up

almost hating

and fearing

the opposite sex.

And I've known

of a number of women

who've said to me,

like, it's actually,

I feel much safer

with another woman.

So in other words,

they've been driven

into the security

of a relationship

with another woman

because of that

early experience

with an abusive man.

I've known of women

in their later years

who have been

very happily married

and had children,

had no hint

of same-sex desire,

but then in their later years

have developed

same-sex attraction,

sometimes in their

40s and 50s.

Likewise,

that can happen too

with men.

So there are a number

of different factors

that can play a part.

One writer very helpfully

says this,

talking about this

multi-causation model.

This would mean

that the form

and strength

of each person's

same-sex desire

has a distinctive,

perhaps unique mix

of biological

and psychological factors

and it may be better

to speak of homosexualities

in the plural.

I hope you can see

the point that's being made there.

He's basically saying,

look,

each of us are unique.

We're knit together

in our mother's womb.

So different factors

are likely to influence

different people

in different ways.

So there is no one theory

that fits everybody.

You can't simply say,

this is what causes

somebody to be

same-sex attracted.

It is not as simple as that.

There are lots of different factors

that can contribute.

Okay,

you may come back

to that subject

in some of the questions

and pick things up from that.

But for now,

let's think secondly.

What does the Bible teach

about same-sex practice?

Well,

the first thing I think

I need to say

is that the Bible

does only ever speak

about same-sex practice.

Okay,

it never ever talks

in terms of orientation.

That simply is not

a biblical concept at all.

So there is no reference

in the Bible

to people being gay.

There's no reference

in the Bible actually

to people being straight

or bisexual.

That simply is not

a biblical concept.

The Bible only talks

in terms

of sexual practice

and it's basically

divided into two camps.

There is sexual practice

that is pleasing to God

and sexual practice

that is displeasing to God.

Sexual practice

that is pleasing to God

is sex

that takes place

within the context

of a heterosexual marriage

between one man

and one woman.

Sexual practice

that is displeasing to God

is any sex

that takes place

outside of that context.

That's the simplest way

that I can put it

to you this evening.

So there is not

this emphasis

in the Bible

on homosexual practice

as somehow being

the worst of the worst.

You may have picked up

over your past

in teaching

and so on

this word abomination.

We'll talk about that

in a moment.

But I think sometimes

as Christians

we grow up

with this feeling

that homosexual practice

is somehow

the worst sin of all.

Some people say

is it the unforgivable sin?

And that's not at all

the emphasis

in the Bible.

The emphasis

in the Bible

is on God ruling out

any and all

sexual practice

that takes place

outside of heterosexual marriage.

So in fact

what the Bible

is concerned about

is the fact that

sex has been given

by God

as a good gift

to be enjoyed

exclusively

within marriage.

That's the emphasis

in the Bible.

I remember once

hearing a quote

from a woman

called Lynn Lavner.

Lynn Lavner

is an American

and she's a comedian.

She's a Jewish

lesbian comedian.

You're probably not used

to hearing Jewish

lesbian comedians quoted.

You may wonder

what on earth

is he doing

reading that kind

of literature?

Look, it's my job.

I read all kinds

of things.

I'm allowed to.

But Lynn Lavner

she's making

a tongue-in-cheek point here

but she actually

has a very serious point.

She says there are

six admonishments

in the Bible

to homosexual practice.

That's slightly debatable

but it's certainly

less than ten

and 362 admonishments

to heterosexual sin.

That doesn't mean

she says that God

doesn't love heterosexuals

it's just that they

need more supervision.

Now I like that comment.

You see the point

she's making?

She's just seeking

to redress

the balance.

So I want to suggest

to you this evening

that actually

one of the key verses

the key verse

in fact

on sexuality

is found

in Genesis 1-3.

Genesis 1-3

provide what we

could call

a foundation

for developing

a theology

of sexuality.

And I think

it's really important

when we're trying

to debate these issues

and maybe discuss

with friends

the Bible's teaching

on sexuality

that we don't just

run to these

half a dozen

or so verses

that mention

same-sex practice

but that we actually

speak from the

overall teaching

of the Bible

and that's why

I'm saying

that we need

to develop

what I call

a theology

of sexuality

so we understand

God's purpose

for sex

within the Bible.

And so the key

verse I suggest

to you this evening

is actually

this verse

in Genesis 2

Genesis 2:24

verse 24

and I realise

here we're

jumping in

right at the end

of the creation

encounter

I don't really

have time

to go into

all of the

contents

I just

would ask

you to bear

with me

and to accept

that this is

a key verse

and you might

want to look

that up later

and do a little

bit of study

around it

but here if you

like is God's

declaration

invention

of marriage

here is his

definition

what we could

call a theological

definition

of marriage

and there are

three elements

to it

listen to

Genesis 2

24

therefore a man

shall leave

his father

and his mother

and hold

fast to

or united to

some versions

say his wife

and they shall

become one flesh

notice then the

three elements

here's what

defines a marriage

theologically

firstly there is a

man leaving

his father and

mother

that means

leaving his

birth family

his own family

in order to

set up a new

family unit

so there's a

definite

transition

if you like

from his

own family

set up a

new family

there's then a

holding fast to

or a uniting to

his wife

so again that

suggests a

ceremony

something formal

not something

casual

not just we move

in

we're getting on

well let's live

together

no there's

something very

definite

there's a

uniting to

what the bible

will later call

marriage of course

and then you

notice

then and only

then they shall

become one

flesh

and there's the

reference to

sexual union

that one

flesh

sexual union

is meant

if you like

as the

cement

which God

uses

to deepen

and strengthen

a relationship

between a man

and his wife

now why do I

say that is a

key verse

well the reason

I say it's a

key verse

is because when

you get through

to the New

Testament

what you

discover

and I've

given you

three references

there

and what you

discover

is that

actually

Genesis 2

24

is repeated

and reinforced

in the New

Testament

so for

example

Matthew

Matthew 19 · chapter mention

chapter 19

Jesus there

is being

questioned

by the

Pharisees

on the

subject

of divorce

and in

answering

that

question

Jesus

quotes

Genesis

2

24

word

for word

ok

thereby

reiterating

that marriage

is the only

place

for love

and attraction

to express

themselves

sexually

you'll find

that the

apostle Paul

in Ephesians

5

and 1

Corinthians

6

he also

quotes

Genesis

2

24

word

for word

and it

is a

really

sound

principle

of

biblical

interpretation

that when

New Testament

writers

bring forward

and reiterate

something from

the Old

Testament

that that

means it's

not something

we can simply

dismiss today

some would urge

us to do

and say

well it's

culturally irrelevant

things have

changed today

no

Genesis

2

24

was valid

in

Moses

day

it was

valid in

Jesus

and the

apostles

day

it's

valid

in

our

day

too

so I

like to

think

as

Genesis

2

24

rather like

if you

imagine

the Bible

here

and Genesis

2

24

is like

a thread

that you

can pull

right the way

through the

Bible

beginning in

Genesis

right the way

through the

Old Testament

through Leviticus

where you have

an awful lot

of teaching

on sexuality

and right the way

through to the

New Testament

where

when you come to

the New Testament

you come across

this word

this term

sexual immorality

and sexual

immorality

is actually

a translation

of the Greek

word

porneia

porneia

and porneia

in the Greek

really carries

with it the

meaning of

any sex

outside of

heterosexual

marriage

that's really

what's behind

that word

porneia

so porneia

for example

would include

incest

it would include

prostitution

it would include

lust

it would include

same sex practice

it would include

adultery

sometimes people say

well Jesus never

talked about

gay people

he never mentioned

homosexuality

well that's not

strictly true

because if you look

at Matthew 7

for example

Jesus is talking

there about

things that come

out of our hearts

that make us

unclean

impure

and Jesus

in speaking

from Mark 7

uses that term

porneia

and any first century

Jew

hearing Jesus

use that word

would have understood

him to be meaning

all sex

outside of

heterosexual marriage

whether that be

same sex

or opposite sex

so Genesis 2

24

I suggest to you

is the key verse

that's our foundation

and what I want to do

then is just look at

two of the specific

references

we're not going to

look at every single

one of the references

that mention

same sex practice

I'm just going to

take two as an

example

and the first is

Leviticus 18

Leviticus 18:22

verse 22

now this is the one

which of course

is familiar to many

people

you shall not

lie with a man

as with a woman

it is an

abomination

and I don't know

about you

but I find that

sometimes this is

the phrase

that is latched

onto by some

Christians

certainly this is

when you're talking

to people maybe

who are outside

of the church

those who identify

as gay

this is maybe

what they have

heard in the past

and this thought

that homosexuality

is an abomination

and therefore

it gives the impression

that we're saying

that actually

it's the worst

of the worst

but I want to

issue a little

challenge to you

this evening

I want to suggest

that after tonight

at some stage

you go home

and you do a little

concordance search

of that word

abomination

or if you're using

the NIV

it will probably

be translated

detestable

so detestable

or an abomination

do a little word

search

and see what

you come up with

you might be

quite surprised

so for example

there are a number

of different verses

in Proverbs

that suggests

that things

such as lying

are an abomination

to God

haughty eyes

that is proud eyes

eyes that look down

upon other people

gay people perhaps

that's an abomination

to God

there's a verse

in Proverbs

that says that

anyone who

turns a deaf ear

to God's words

in other words

you read something

in the Bible

and you think

oh dear that's a bit tough

I'll tell you what

I'll give that a miss

and I'll have a time

of prayer instead

and then praise

says this verse

their prayers

are an abomination

to God

isn't that quite scary

none of us

have ever done that

before

dodgy weighing scales

are an abomination

to God

dodgy weighing scales

some of you are

looking really worried

now

it's not bathroom scales

don't worry

we're talking here

weights and measures

just for the sake

of clarity

but you see

the important point

the important point

is we mustn't

get carried away

and some Christians

I think in the past

have got really

carried away

and they sort of

zoom in on this

word abomination

and particularly

if we're using

it selectively

to apply to

one particular sin

whereas in fact

the Bible

would apply it

to all kinds

of sins

as I say

I issue that

challenge

just to have a

little search

through Proverbs

and to dwell

on some of those

verses in there

now of course

the other argument

about a verse

like Leviticus

and this is an

argument that's

often put to me

is well look

you Christians

it's all very well

but you're selective

with the way you

treat the Old Testament

so you take

certain things

from Leviticus

and you say

well that applies

today

but then other

things you say

well no that

doesn't apply

today

so for example

most Christians

I know

would be quite

happy eating

a BLT sandwich

or a packet

of prawn cocktail

crisps

but what about

the teaching

in Leviticus

that says

we shouldn't

eat pork

and we shouldn't

eat shellfish

now how do we

sort of bring

those two things

together and reconcile

them

well what about

that verse

in Leviticus

that talks about

not wearing

clothing

made of mixed

fibers

we could do

a little exercise

tonight and check

each other's labels

we won't

it will get

very embarrassing

we're not going

to do it

but you know

why isn't the church

speaking out about

the abomination

of polycotton shirts

now again

it can make us smile

but actually it's a

very serious point

how do we argue this

how do we answer

that kind of question

well the great news

is that actually

Jesus hasn't left

us in the dark

he's made it very clear

how we're to interpret

the Old Testament

in the Sermon on the Mount

Jesus says

I've not come

to abolish the law

so he's not come

simply to dismiss it

but he has come

he says

to fulfill it

that means to complete it

to fill it up

we could say

so surely when we're

deciding which of the

Old Testament laws

no longer apply

to God's people

Christian people

today

we have to consider

which of them

Jesus has fulfilled

through his coming

into the world

and his death

on the cross

that's the basis

so let me give you

an example

on that basis

we can say

with confidence

that none of the

sacrificial laws

have to be followed

by Christians today

I mean I didn't see

anybody sacrificing

a pigeon or anything

as you came through

the door today

to make yourself clean

why don't we do that

well we don't do that

because the writer

of Hebrews tells us

Christ died

once for all

it's not that Jesus

has abolished the law

he has fulfilled it

he is the fulfillment

of all of that

Old Testament teaching

on sacrifice and ritual

so actually now

as Christians

we have the freedom

to come to God

directly through Christ

we don't have to

make sacrifices

another example

on that basis

we know that we can

with confidence

eat a BLT sandwich

or prawn cocktail

crisper

whatever it is

we might like

how do we know that

well because

Mark 7 verse 19

Mark 7:19

Jesus declared

all foods clean

ok

so that's the basis

on which we interpret

the Old Testament

but

I would challenge

anybody

to find anywhere

in the New Testament

where Jesus now declares

all sexual practices

now clean

look through the Gospels

it simply isn't there

in fact

in all of the teaching

in the Old Testament

everything that Jesus teaches

everything that the Apostles

teaches

it backs up

everything that's taught

in the Old Testament

so it backs up

that Genesis 2.24 principle

it backs up

the Levitical

holiness code

if you like

which is

the way that

God's people

were to be holy

and one of the ways

in which God's people

are to be holy

is through sexual morality

and that's not been

fulfilled if you like

by Christ

because actually

Jesus teaches

his Apostles teach

that today

we are to flee

from sexual immorality

we're to avoid

sexual immorality

so I hope that just

helps a little bit

maybe when we're

discussing these issues

with friends

so that's one

from the Old Testament

let's just take one

from the New Testament

this is a passage

we looked at

in some detail

this morning

and I don't want

to look at it

in detail now

and I think

that will be

on the Karaglion

website

will it

at some stage

so if you want

to hear a little bit

more about this

I just want to

very briefly

touch on it

a couple of things

firstly I want you

to notice

that same-sex

practice here

this is the ESV

version

and it's a paraphrase

men who practice

homosexuality

and there's a little

bit on this morning's

teaching about

the two words

that have been

translated there

a paraphrase

men who practice

homosexuality

but I want you

to notice

that that is

listed alongside

a number of

other sinful

practices

and Paul is not

highlighting

men who practice

homosexuality

and saying it's

worse

he's actually

listing it

alongside

things such as

greed

and drunkenness

reviling

or slandering

they're all listed

there as marks

if you like

this is those

who continuously

and consistently

live in these

kinds of ways

these are the

marks that they're

going to display

but the main

thing I want

you to notice

from this

passage

is actually

that there's

a great

challenge

and a great

message of

hope in

that

because having

listed these

various sinful

behaviours

look what Paul

says

this is in

verse 11

he says

and such

were some

of you

now remember

he's writing

here to

Christian people

not to the

world

but to

Christians

another

translation

puts it

some of

you once

lived this

way

but he

says

you were

washed

that is

made clean

sanctified

made holy

justified

brought into

a right

relationship

with God

in the name

of the Lord

Jesus Christ

and by the

spirit

of our God

so Paul

is saying

that actually

look in the

church in

Corinth

nearly 2,000

years ago

there were

Christians

who had come

from all of

these kinds

of backgrounds

including

some who

had been

practising

homosexuality

but they're

not outside

the church

they're not

alienated

from the

church

they're

actually

inside

the church

they're

in the

church

because

they've

had

a

saving

life

changing

encounter

with

Jesus

Christ

and the

implication

of course

of him

saying

such

were

some

of you

is that

look

you

used

to

live

these

kinds

of

ways

but

you

don't

live

those

ways

anymore

because

of

what's

happened

to you

in

Christ

Jesus

so

actually

that

should

give

great

hope

perhaps

to those

Christians

that we

know

or maybe

those

Christians

here this

evening

who struggle

in this

area

be encouraged

because

actually

this is

Paul is

wanting to

encourage

you and

say

look

you've

actually

been

redeemed

you've

been

rescued

you're

on a

level

with

every

other

Christian

who's

come

from

all

these

other

kinds

of

backgrounds

as

well

but

it

also

sends

out

I

think

a

great

challenge

to

the

church

that

actually

we

shouldn't

have

a

situation

where

the

gay

community

to use

that

phrase

is

completely

alienated

and

separated

from

the

church

if

the

church

is

being

authentic

and

is

preaching

the

gospel

to

all

kinds

of

people

then

really

in

our

churches

we

should

have

people

who

used

to

identify

as

gay

but

who

don't

anymore

because

of

that

encounter

with

Jesus

Christ

and

it's

really

on

that

note

of

hope

that

I

want

to

conclude

this

evening

as

we

think

about

our

final

question

before

we

move

through

to

a

break

and

then

to

your

questions

and

it's

this

question

what

hope

does

the

gospel

then

hold

out

to

those