Beyond The Message: How Is Your Soul?

Welcome to Beyond the Message, a midweek space where we continue the conversation from Sunday's sermon, unpacking context, exploring your questions, and growing as we listen, learn, and follow Jesus together.

Hi guys, welcome back to another week of Beyond the Message, our midweek podcast where we go deeper into last Sunday's sermon.

I'm Jess Harris, I'll be hosting this week, and I'm joined by Pastor Aidan Wivell.

Hi, everyone.

Who, as those of you that tuned in on Sunday or were in our services will know, preached a one-off message out of Mark 4 1 to 20 on the parable of the soils, but he rephrased it, the parable of the souls.

Super good message, super interesting stuff.

Um before we jump into a bit of a recap, I am curious, why did you choose this as your message?

Because you could have done anything.

It was a free week.

You could have picked any topic you wanted in the whole wide world, and you chose this.

Can you just tell us a little bit of an insight into your why?

Yeah, I don't often get the free Sundays like that.

So um it is kind of can be a bit paralyzing sometimes because you're like, I could preach on anything, what do I preach on?

But I had recently gone to a conference, the Abide conference here in Auckland.

Um, and one of the speakers was a guy called John Ortberg, who is, you know, kind of like a John Mark Coma, but for uh the generation before us.

Okay.

Um and he he was a great speaker, and as part of the conference, he he did this talk on the soul.

And then my mum, because it'd been my birthday, and my mum was at the conference, and she went to the book table with me and she said, You can choose any book.

And I just kind of randomly picked this book by dream.

Yeah, that's that's that's me and my mum's relationship.

Um, and I just randomly picked this book, Soul Keeping, uh, by John Orberg, because he was the speaker, and then I just really loved the book.

I it's like as soon as I was reading like the first chapter, I was like, I'm in, you know, this is good, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And and it was like deep, but also really accessible, uh, really funny.

I was literally reading it once in the cafe and I actually laughed out loud.

Oh, we love that.

Yeah, that doesn't often happen for a book, so it was good, and there was this section on the parable of the soils.

So I said on Sunday, like disclaimer, like everything that I said is from John Ortberg.

Um he broke down that that parable and presented the different types of soul.

Uh, and I just thought, yeah, this will preach well.

Like it's uh it's like a good amount of content, it's because people can kind of see where they might fit.

Yeah, and it's a familiar parable, the parable of the source, but it's a new take on it.

So 100%.

Never heard it before like that.

Yeah, yeah.

So all of those reasons kind of was like, yeah, this will work well for a free Sunday, not much deeper than that.

Just Okay, I love that.

It's not what I was expecting, but we love some honest truth.

Yeah.

Um, amazing.

Now, normally I'd have a go at summarising the message, but I thought this week I'd leave it for you.

So can you, in your quick little 30-second summary, it can be a bit more than that if you need, kind of give us a rundown of what you spoke about for anyone that might have missed it or just might need a recap before we delve deeper today.

It's a good challenge.

It is a good challenge.

Uh we started off by talking about the soul and asking essentially what is the soul?

Um, the key point being that the soul is you in the most complete sense of who you are, like the most holistic version of Jess, a good way to say that is your soul, all of who you are.

Um, and then we asked kind of how is your soul?

And then that's where the parable of the the soils gave us this window into three different conditions of the soul.

The hardened soul, which was the seed that fell on the path, uh, the shallow soul, which was the seed that fell on the rocky soil, uh, and the cluttered soul, which is the seed that fell uh where the thorns kind of choked it.

Um, and then the invitation for for all of those was to become the good soil, the receptive soul that is open to God's word.

Um, so that's I guess my quick summary.

That's a good summary.

I think you highlighted it very well.

Before we dive any deeper, I thought it would be interesting because I don't remember, I mean maybe you didn't.

I was distracted for a second, but I don't remember you highlighting which soul condition you personally connect with in this season of life.

Can you share a little bit about that if it's not too personal?

No, that's a great, a great thing to do because that is kind of like a a no-no, really.

Like I should I should have gone there, but I just kind of time-wise and the content that I had, I didn't go deeply into that, but which is a bit of a letdown, really.

So it's good to be able to do it in a podcast.

It's not a letdown, it was still a great submit, but it's great to go deeper.

Yes.

But you do want to present that kind of where does this land for me as the person preaching it?

Um so I would say that at this season of my life, um, mostly relating to the cluttered soul, uh, might be because literally the day before preaching, I was moving all my stuff from my house into a storage container.

Talk about clutter and realizing how much clutter I had.

Um, it was like one of those shows, you know, like hoarders or um storage wars.

We were literally talking about that.

So, but I I do feel, you know, um young kid, you know, this stage of life, there's a lot going on as I'm adjusting still to being a dad.

Um uh another one on the way if people don't know, but yeah, Keely's also pregnant, so super exciting.

It's very exciting, but it's gonna be another season of of change.

And then um, yeah, so for lots of reasons, there's lots of things that are pushing in on my time.

Uh and I had an example of this, uh, and uh I guess like my previous line of work in football, uh, occasionally I'll get asked, oh, could could you do this or that or help out with with this thing?

Uh and and I had one of those things pop up fairly recently, and I really wanted to say yes.

Like uh I I was kind of missing some of that work, and and I'd just gone to the World Cup in Vancouver as a fan, and I was really in football mode, and uh somebody rang me and presented an opportunity, and I like really immediately I was like, Yes, I want to do this.

How can I make this work?

Um and I through a long process, I I kind of discerned that it wasn't God's invitation for me, and and that the right thing to do to be obedient to Him and to be kind of faithful to my own limitations and the season of life that I'm in was to say no.

But just I I realized that the attraction and the pull of this thing and how difficult it was for me to say no.

And when I did, like it it gave me a lot of peace, but it was kind of a sad piece because there was part of me that really wanted to do this thing.

But so just sort of share that as I can recognize the temptation towards I'm already cluttered, yeah, and I could have cluttered it even way more.

And it's like now I'm like, why was I even contemplating that?

Like my I'm so busy right now.

How would I have added this whole extra component?

But there's that temptation to add more, more, more.

And sometimes it's so easy to justify those things, like, oh, but it's good, like it'll it'll fill my cut.

Totally, or or like I'm in the world and I'm I'm uh there's an opportunity to witness and stuff, and there were positives, but yeah.

You knew you knew after that discernment process that it wasn't what God had for you.

And what does that discernment process look like for you?

Because I just think it's interesting for people to see the different ways people sorry, putting you on the spot here, yeah, yeah, discern what God might be saying to them or leading them in.

Yeah, for for me with that, uh I spoke to obviously you spoke to Keely about it and what it might look like.

Uh I spoke to my supervisor, uh I spoke to lots of people really about, you know, this is the opportunity.

What do you think this is my season of?

I spoke to to Grant about it, and like if I do take this up, this is the um how it's gonna affect my kind of work schedule.

Um my supervisor gave me some good advice around the discernment process uh and uh like I guess trying to imagine that you've said yes.

So actually blocking out a period of time like maybe five minutes, uh and imagining driving to that work, uh doing the work of the day and then seeing what feelings that evokes.

It was so interesting.

Yeah, it wasn't what I expected him to say, but just really try to imagine you have said yes, uh, and then I've finished, let's say, you know, five days of work at Windsor, and then on my what would be my day off, I'm now driving to this other job to do this.

What does that evoke in me?

Is it anxiety?

Is there joy in that?

Is there a peace?

Guilt, maybe the parent.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah, the the the loss of time with Rio, my son.

Um, so I I did I tried to do that, but the biggest thing for me with this one was that very early on, after that initial excitement of like, yes, I want to do this, I had this moment with God in England where like I felt really connected to him in this time of worship, uh, and I had this sense, do not do this thing.

Yeah, but I I pushed it away, yeah.

And I and I was like, Oh, maybe it was just me, you know, because I was real excited about it.

So, but I I did have this sense of like uh this is not like the one, don't step into this.

So my discernment process kind of helped me to come back to that original sense and go, actually, yes, that was God speaking to me.

Um and I think it was kind of like going with what I knew all along that God was trying to say, actually, no, let this one go.

Um so it's kind of accepting that.

I love that, and thank you for sharing.

I think it's super interesting because we all have different ways of discerning, you know, how God speaks to us.

But I love the fact that like you spent the time actually trying to be with God and like understand what He might be saying, and then you went out to community to, I guess, not get validation, but help with that process because that's what community is for and we're for relationship.

Practical ways forward, then, right?

So we talk about trying to transform from the hardness of landing on the hard soil to vulnerability, shallow soul from shallowness to depth, cluttered soil from cluttered to simplicity.

Can you tell us a little bit about what that can look like?

So, what causes us to harden our heart towards God or others and how can we work on overcoming this?

Yeah.

Um hardening uh often happens because we've been hurt or we've been disappointed or or or rejected, uh and it's natural kind of response to wall goes up.

Yeah, you do you build your wall and protect yourself, and and that serves its purpose.

I think like if I'm not psychologist or a counsellor, but when you talk about trauma and and that that's actually an important part of the healing process is to protect ourselves and build these walls.

Uh, but at some point, if we kind of continue to harden and harden, harden, it's gonna get very difficult to let God in, to let others in.

Um so I suggested in the sermon that one like one practical way could be through forgiveness.

I know actually on our last podcast, Michael talked with Grant about his journey of forgiveness with his father and what that did for him.

So I think um that's one really tangible, difficult but life-changing way of kind of softening ourselves.

For me, one example was um for this was kind of around vulnerability, humility.

Uh, as a sort of teenager, I've uh um my sister was preaching at Windsor uh in the evening service, and uh and I had this kind of I guess envy around that you know, my sister was preaching.

Um, I felt like she was a better Christian than me.

Uh she's two years younger than me, and she was kind of excelling in this thing.

Uh and towards at the end of her message, like I felt convicted to go and receive prayer from my younger sister.

Wow.

And that's very kind of like so so it could be seen as a humiliating thing to do.

It's like I'm the big brother.

Why do I need my younger sister to pray for me?

Like I can go and ask Grant to pray for me, not my younger sister.

Um, and and it literally, as I went forward and she kind of prayed for me, I just like wept.

Like it was just like a real release of this kind of yeah, this pride and this comparison, and it was just like it it softened something in me.

Yeah.

Um, so that's just like a one example where um having that vulnerability of stepping into something um really changed something within me and softened um yeah.

I think you know, with forgiveness and with choosing to be vulnerable and to have humility, it is hard because it's intimidating and it's scary, but it's like once you've ripped that band-aid, there's so much like release and freedom that comes from that.

Um that's great.

So with then we talk about the shallow um soul or the shallow soil, yeah.

Um, and how we can develop deeper roots in Jesus, particularly when life is busy or difficult.

So, what practices do you think can help us move beyond this, I guess, more superficial faith?

Yeah, I guess like two kind of response to that, like um, I think the depth grows over time through life experience, through suffering and trials that we talked about.

So part of that is just life.

Like you and I don't have the faith that we had at 15.

Yeah, yeah, we have uh sort of a deep a deeper faith.

Uh we've navigated different things, become a parent, and you you've experienced God in whole new ways.

So I think just staying in there like is part of it.

It's like you will grow in your faith if you you stay engaged, you you stay open to God, you stay in community in the changing seasons of life, you you you develop a deeper faith.

Like I think when Rio, my son, was born, you know, you have this thing where like you feel like you've expanded as a person because I never had a child before, and now this whole capacity to love and to care for someone who is like half of my DNA and it's like a combination of me and Keely.

I've never experienced that before.

And it a lot of people describe that it kind of opens up a whole new side to you.

And then I've heard that when you have a sec you you're kind of coming up to have a second child and you're like, how could I love another child as much as I love my firstborn?

Yeah.

But when it happens, it expands you again.

Yeah, 100%.

Is that is that your experience?

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, so I think some of the things like that, uh in a sa in a sad way, but in a s in a similar kind of idea, like deaths can can do this when you when you reflect on a life and you you lose someone that you love, it it's a deep thing and it um it forces you to think about life um and and maybe kind of reflect differently.

So it sort of changes you as a person.

So uh like big life things like that will, if we lean into God, create depth.

So that that's kind of one part of like the stuff that happens in life.

The more proactive sense of like how can we go from like develop depth without waiting for these major things to happen, I think is what you're asking as well, like practices.

Um I I heard this quote uh that we we don't grow through experience, we grow through reflecting on experience.

Because we we often say like, oh, we grow through experience, but the wisdom in that was like you actually when you reflect on the things that you've experienced, that's where the real growth happens.

Yeah.

So even in the stuff that I just said, like um in becoming a parent or losing someone, it's the reflective process that helps us to actually grow.

Yeah.

So I I think the power of like stuff like journaling, um, of whether it's counseling or supervision for people who are in caring professions or or whose work requires supervision, maybe um or just mentorship so you can actually reflect on your life at a deeper level than just going from day to day and from the urgent to the urgent.

But um for me, I find that yeah, reflection is so important to to depth.

Uh so I I practice that through journaling.

I'm not a like everyday journal, like I I I like get bored of like what to write.

I know some people can.

Oh, I've tried.

That's not for me.

I will keep trying, but I struggle.

Yeah, like in terms of an everyday thing, I'm like, oh, what do I say?

But like for me, like once every week or or just kind of sporadic, especially if something major has happened that I do want to reflect on, um, that really helps me to grow.

The other, the other thing I would say is um is solitude.

It's is actually time alone where you you're forced in a way to go deep with God because the distractions of like other people, of um just activities and like stimulation is is taken away.

So um it's painful, it's difficult, but we can encounter God on a deeper level, and you can combine that with journaling.

I'm gonna give a real weird idea, and I apologize in advance.

But people often have their best ideas when they're in the shower, right?

Because there's literally no distraction there.

You can't be on your phone, you're not writing, you're not reading, you're just cleaning yourself.

Yeah.

Um, and so I wonder if we try and put a practice of, you know, when we do have showers, actually just praying with God and spending time or even just like listening or being intentional in that space is like an easy way of intentionally creating that habit and that routine of doing that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think for me as well, I'm real big on conviction.

Yeah.

And I see it in a really good way.

I don't see it as like this negative thing.

But I was watching this video the other day on Instagram and it was pretty much been like um, you know, everyone says that they'll go to heaven, they're gonna be rejoicing and celebrating Jesus and, you know, worshiping at his feet, and that's amazing.

But if we're so excited for that, then why aren't we doing it now?

And I've been thinking about that a lot recently because I would say it's very easy to have a superficial faith.

Like I come, I read my verse of the day, I say prayers every day, but am I actually intentionally trying to get to know Jesus deeper and more?

And I want to say yes, but if I'm being honest, I prioritize a lot of other things above my relationship with him.

And I think sometimes actually listening to that conviction and trying to have a little bit of accountability is important.

Definitely, you know, like a gardener has to tend to their garden, it takes work, it doesn't just grow overnight.

And I wonder if that's something similar as well.

And then we go on to the cluttered soul.

So going from cluttered to simplicity.

So um, I guess what tends to clutter our souls and crowd out our relationship with God, and how might implementing spiritual practices into our everyday rhythm help us make more room for God?

Yeah.

Um there's so many things that clutter our souls.

So what doesn't clutter us?

I think the example that I gave is is a good example of um discerning what has God called us to and what hasn't he called us to.

Um, and it's not like there's a lot of freedom in figuring out what things we can say no to, because then we can say a more whole-hearted, a more whole-souled yes to the things that he has called us to.

So it's a real positive in there.

So discernment would be would be one thing.

I I know some um some people practice that on an annual kind of cycle, maybe with with their partner or family, of like, okay, what are the things because we're coming slowly towards the end of the year.

Uh what are the things, you know, as we reflect on 2026, uh, as we look to the next year, what are the things that God's calling us to um so it's not just so reactive or um short term, but actually, okay, as a family or as a couple or as an individual, what is 2027?

What am I prioritizing?

What have and you can give God a lot of space because you've actually got time now to to think ahead on that.

Um, but any practice of stripping out would be helpful in cluttered.

So that could could be Sabbath, uh, you know, setting aside a day to to have that kind of simplified time with God to slow down, to delight in Him.

It could be it could be fasting.

Fasting our phones, fasting, exactly, fasting from anything, yeah.

Anything that strips strips out.

Um, it could be like simplicity is kind of defined as a practice, and but it's quite vague, so it could um there's very literal kind of going through your house and doing the actual declutterings.

The recondo your house.

Yeah, exactly.

Um or like I I mean I just discovered it this as we've been packing up, like how I'm not someone who's big on like my cluttering.

I kind of if people actually pay attention to what we wear on podcaster sermons, I wear the same stuff a lot.

But I have so much stuff that I don't even wear.

But it's so hard to let go of sometimes.

Because we're like one day, one day that jacket will get worn.

I know.

Or like somebody gave it to me and I don't want to throw it away because they gave it to me or something like that.

Donate it to an op shop.

You know, someone else gets another lease of life on it.

And when I did that for Take Seven, I went through my wardrobe and got rid of stuff and and um passed it on to Take Seven, you know, a new initiative for um clothing redistribution that started through this church.

I actually felt a lot freer.

So there's real practical things that we can do in that sense as well.

I think as you say strip back, people are instantly thinking of something, at least one thing.

Like as soon as you say it, they know like it's gonna have come up.

I can think of mine.

Tim behind the camera can think of one, and obviously you know yours as well.

And so I think it's you know what it is, just go do it.

Yeah, and I know it's easier said than done, but again, we've got to start somewhere, and once we start, those things become much easier to implement.

This is a lifelong journey, and you discussed that.

Um, soul care isn't something we master overnight, so how can we give ourselves grace as we grow while still being intentional about the condition of our souls?

Big question.

Yeah, um yeah, I'm thinking about uh a recent kind of story that that I had um I shared at a staff meeting.

Um but I was I was talking to my spiritual director about the fact that I discovered my baptism testimony.

I I don't think I've shared this in this context, but just with staff.

So I I got baptized when I was 16 and recently I was going to message someone uh and then I found my previous message to them was in 2009, and they must have asked me for my baptism testimony.

So I went to message them and I discovered my baptism testimony that I thought I'd lost.

So I'm reading my baptism testimony from 16-year-old Aiden, uh, and it was really this cool experience of seeing God's hand over my life, but also as I reflected on it, it was kind of like I thought I had a really deep faith, and and now I look at it and I'm like I would write it very differently.

Yeah, uh, and I've learned a lot since then.

Uh and so I was talking to my spiritual director about this, and he he said, What did you feel?

As you kind of thought about your 16-year-old self, yeah.

And eventually I I kind of said I felt um uh a compassion and a fond fondness to my younger self.

Um and like I really meant that to uh um because I was struggling with lots of stuff as well, and I wasn't we're never a finished product, but like I was um I was very much in process, uh, but I felt this compassion to myself and he said uh is it possible that in 16 years from now you'll look back on yourself as you are today with the same compassion and fondness for the challenges that you face at the moment?

And I was like, Oh, what a question, you know, because we're busy, you know, parenting, trying to do the best that you can, trying to grow spiritually, trying to do your job to the best of your ability.

Um, and it was just that's such a great reminder that in 15 years I'm gonna look back and go, yeah, I didn't have it all together, and yeah, you know, I made mistakes as a parent, um, and I made mistakes as a as a pastor, but I think I'll look back with with grace for myself, because I do when I look at my 15-year-old self.

Yeah, 100%.

So I think it's just a great reminder to to have grace for ourselves, to view ourselves through like because that's how God views us.

Like you we're never complete, we never we're always in process, but grace comes first.

Um soul growth, soul care, you know, developing a deep soul with God is a work of a lifetime, and um have grace for where you're at today.

Conviction is still there, and we still challenged on areas to grow, but it's not out of a like you must fix this or I won't love you.

It's like God loves you, He He wants you to experience peace and joy and contentment.

He there is a better way to live.

It's not about a judgment on where you're at, it's a it's an invitation to greater confidence, contentment, and peace in our relationship with God to experience the things that we talk about.

Like that, it's just like calm and live this way, but it's not like a oh shame, you're hard, oh shame on you.

You know, like it's not like that.

It's we're there for a reason.

Yeah, 100%.

In your sermon, you spoke about how you were asked the question, how's your soul?

And how it sort of threw you initially.

Um, but I wonder if that's almost a challenge that we take into, I guess, not just the rest of this year, but into life of having someone that we can continuously check in with, of asking each other, how is your soul?

So that we do have that time to actually stop and reflect and evaluate where we're at so that we can uh I guess work on nourishing it or um making more room or going deeper or whatever that might look like.

What would you want your key takeaway to be from this message?

Like we said in the beginning, this was a one-off message.

You could choose anything, and this is what you chose.

Yeah.

If someone was listening and um they want to know, or they know more now, I guess, about the soul, but they kind of might feel overwhelmed on where to start or what to do.

What would be your your final thought, your final takeaway?

Um I would say yeah, to everyone listening and thinking about it, you you have a soul and it's of infinite value, eternal value, made, carved by God, loved by him.

Um but you're you're also you are responsible for the condition of your soul.

God and the Holy Spirit helps us with that, but um your past is not gonna do it for you, your spouse is not gonna do it for you, your friends are not gonna do it for you.

Each of us is responsible for the condition of our soul, um, in cooperation with the Holy Spirit.

Yeah.

So um it's it's it's important, it but it's not gonna, it's not an overnight journey, it's a it's a long thing.

But if there is uh an invitation or or or something that you feel prompted to do, I would say, you know, step into that because it is important.

Um we always talk about who are we becoming, what and what uh this is kind of what kind of soul am I becoming.

That is so important, it's the work of a lifetime.

Yeah.

But um we can let it happen by accident, or we can be intentional about um cooperating with God and that I love that.

That's so good.

What a great way to wrap up.

This week, this Sunday, we have another one-off message, this time by Pastor Caleb Finlayson.

Uh, and then after that, we jump back into our political disciples series.

It just so happens that his message, completely by I don't even want to say coincidence, I want to say by God's working, yeah, yeah, aligns super well with what you spoke about last Sunday.

Can you give us a little smidge of an insight into what Caleb will be preaching on?

Yeah, he he's looking at the call of Samuel from 1st Kings, I think.

Um I may be wrong on that.

No, I think you're right.

Um But yeah, the the link is that there's this whole thing of like, is is Samuel learning to hear God's voice?

And Eli is looking after him and he kind of trains him to say, you know, speak, Lord, your servant is listening.

And the whole thing about the soil was like, are we listening to the word of God?

Jesus says, those who have ears to hear, let them hear.

So it's are we listening?

And I think that's the question that Caleb's really going to be asking is like, are we listening?

And how can we listen more closely to the voice of God in our lives?

It's gonna be another great one.

So make sure you come along on Sunday or tune in if you're away this long weekend to our online service at 9.30 a.m.

or later at your own convenience.

Um and as always, we love your reflections on our weekly messages.

We love your questions.

So if you've got any of that, just head to windsapark.org.nz forward slash podcasts and you can leave them there for us.

And we can hopefully discuss them in future podcasts as well.

Thank you so much for joining us, Aidan.

Thank you for sharing your heart.

Thank you for your vulnerability, um, for your ideas.

It's so appreciated.

I love having these conversations.

I'm someone that uh learns and processes through conversations.

So this has been really great for me as well.

Um, we're looking forward to Caleb's message on Sunday.

We're looking forward to after that jumping back into our political disciples series as well.

Thank you for listening and tuning in and being part of these conversations as well.

Until next week, Wednesday, may God continue to shape us as we listen, learn, and follow Jesus together.