THIS IS MY STORY // Interview with Bob Brame

Well, I want to um invite a friend of mine, a dear dear friend of mine up.

We uh mentioned this a few weeks ago the last time we did this, but uh on occasion we're going to do this uh series, if you will, that'll kind of go through the school year.

We'll just kind of pause what we're doing sometimes and then get uh give you an opportunity to hear someone's God's story.

Uh every one of you have a story.

Hopefully you're allowing God to just write your story each and every day throughout your lives, uh seeking to uh experience all that he has in store for you.

So today I'm gonna be inviting uh someone that I consider a spiritual mentor.

He's uh been in the trenches of Hickory Grove's God-given mission for over two decades.

Um he's such a humble and wise leader.

He has served as a deacon, been on numerous committees.

He's currently one of our trustees here at Hickory Grove.

Um God has used uh Bob Brahm to be on the front lines of us launching churchwide small groups.

I remember he was a crucial part of our team gathering people together to pray for it, to sort of brainstorm it.

It took us like two to three years to actually launch small groups.

We actually on October 5th had our eight eighteenth anniversary of having small groups here at our church, and we're just seeing it grow and grow and uh be something that God uses to make more and more disciples.

He and his bride, Rhonda, have launched a ministry you've been hearing us announce uh for the last few years, Grief Share Support Groups.

Um, before I let him come and tell you more about himself, though, uh the fate my favorite title that he carries is My Friend.

Um I love just getting to sit down with him and we talk about all kinds of crazy stuff.

I can just be myself with him.

Uh and uh usually when we get to do this, I'm like, why don't I sit down and get coffee with Bob more often?

Um we just had coffee this past week, and it's like, damn, thanks for spending a little bit of time with me, and we parted ways.

I looked down at my watch and we had been together for two and a half hours.

I'm like, oh boy, I hope he's okay with me taking that much of his time.

Uh but he truly is a friend that God has blessed me with.

Um so I'm gonna invite him to the platform now.

Bob Bram, come on up, and would you help him feel welcome this morning as he comes?

Here you go, my brother.

Thank you, brother.

All right.

Um so Bob, did I leave anything out?

Is there anything more you can share about yourself that I could touch on all the bases?

Well, I find out why I use the steps and you don't have age certainly comes into that a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

Actually, uh, you may not realize this, but in uh February, coming up in February, I'll be here 29 years.

Is it almost 30 years?

Actually, it made me think about how long you've been here.

That's right, about the same.

I had the same time.

A while back of serving on your search committee.

That's right.

And I gotta tell you, of all the things I've done in church, and it's been quite a few over the years at different churches, as a matter of fact, that was a really amazing experience.

It was amazing because we had a very group uh diverse group of uh folks on the committee, uh, but equally uh it was a committee that came together unanimously and obviously called you unanimously.

So I I I remember that very fondly because not all activities in the church do that.

And don't want to be negative, but the reality is uh sometimes we can get pulled in different directions, and that was a very wonderful experience, bottom line.

So basically, it's his fault that I'm your pastor.

I'm just he's saying no, that I'm feel very humbled uh looking back on those days at how, because I know y'all were very prayerful as a team and as a committee, and just how that all laid out.

I mean, I've been very blessed because of that.

Um, something that uh you do on a regular basis.

I know you've always been seeking, okay, Lord, what's kind of my next calling?

And due to some different circumstances, some of the things, and we'll talk about this in a little bit, some of the things you used to do you don't currently do exactly right now, but uh one thing you've been doing is actually manning a prayer hotline.

Can you tell us more about that?

Yeah, that's uh actually this goes back to the COVID days at uh 2020.

Um Franklin Graham uh realized uh the ministry uh needs obviously changed a lot with COVID, as we all well know.

Uh bottom line is he started a 24-hour prayer line uh to be available to folks to call and you know get some support and just have someone pray with them.

Uh I was uh serving as a chaplain then, but because of COVID, that pulled back significantly.

And so I jumped on the opportunity to do the prayer line and have been, he's obviously tweaked it a lot.

He, the Billy Graham Evangelical Association, has tweaked it a lot since 2020, but that continues to be available, uh, not only for anyone to call, but certainly they continue to look for volunteers to staff it because having enough people to do 24-7 obviously takes a pretty good staff.

So yeah, yeah, that was a wonderful opportunity that that God brought in, obviously, because of COVID, but continues to work through it now, and there are regular salvations uh each day, and it's just an amazing ministry.

That's awesome.

Because we have so many hotlines for so many things in the world, and I didn't even know it existed until you told me about it, and and what a great way to serve.

You don't even have to leave the house to do it, which is really nice.

And speaking of that, I know that part of that story for you happens to also be a medical diagnosis that you have experienced.

Do you mind sharing a little bit about that as well?

Yeah, sure.

That it uh goes back uh in this case too, actually ties back to disaster relief.

Uh I had been out on a deployment in the fall of uh 2018.

Uh tough deployment, which they they typically always are, exercising sleep deprivation and just uh tiring all the way around.

So that combined with uh the illness that I didn't really even realize then.

When I came back from that deployment in 2018, uh it was just a lot of issues going on, had to see a doctor and ended up being in the hospital for uh I think about 12 days total.

Um and they diagnosed me with CLL.

Uh CLL is a type of leukemia.

Uh it's uh there there are a wide continuum, if you will, with uh issues that leukemia can bring.

CLL is uh is a little bit um uh better than some if you want to do that.

I don't know how you can classify issues like that as better than others, but uh it's been manageable.

Uh it's it's certainly been something that uh it's amazing what the physicians can do and certainly what drugs will allow us to do these days, as I'm sure many of you are aware.

Yeah.

Um but the reality is uh anytime you're on uh a drug that is working to take care of a disease like that for you, it's probably gonna pull down your immunity.

Yeah.

Uh that's just the way oncology works, and that's what's happening, has happened to me.

And so I've had to be pretty careful with uh kind of uh spacing myself as best I can, you know, with other issues uh and and not uh try not to get a matter of fact, last year when we were on vacation in Florida, I ended up getting sick with pneumonia, uh, no doubt because of that immunity issue.

Uh and so uh have to watch it a little bit, but uh you know, there again, the Lord shows you the way, and uh we all have challenges along the way, whether it's illness or something else.

And so uh he will certainly work through those to show us the way if we look to him.

I agree with that.

And what's kind of cool about your story, because I know how involved you were in disaster relief and chaplaincy, and uh to suddenly be like, I gotta really be careful how many people I'm around right now.

Uh okay, well, here's something I can do.

I can do this prayer hotline.

I can still be used by the Lord no matter what's going on with my body.

And I'll I really like that you have adopted that mindset.

Uh, what are some of the things?

So you were how long were you serving as a chaplain with disaster relief?

What are some of the experiences you had there that have uh been important to you?

What you've learned from?

If you all don't know it, uh the Southern Baptist Convention uh has a wonderful disaster relief network throughout the country.

Uh it's a huge network.

Uh each state is structured uh a little differently, but they all work together to help folks dealing with disasters.

So the initial uh interaction I had was through KBC, Kentucky's uh disaster relief, uh, getting involved with that um and just seeing how amazing that ministry is in giving us opportunities to share with people that are hurting and struggling and dealing with uh issues, obviously.

I was able to then later on uh jump in with uh Billy Graham also has the Billy Graham Association has a uh a team that they call Rapid Response Team, which is the same thing.

It's basically chaplains that work alongside uh their disaster relief team, which of course is Samaritan Spurse.

Uh and so they operate a little differently, but they're both all about pointing people to the Lord.

Yeah.

I tell you, Bill, it's amazing when you go out in that kind of a setting uh where people are struggling uh in many different ways, at least property-related losses, maybe life losses, uh you know, folks they know, uh family members, how open they become to not just you being there, but to the fact that you we have people all the time will make the comment.

I think the Lord's talking to me.

Duh, he talks to all of us.

We just need to listen.

But he sure will work through tough.

Yeah.

You know, the tough things in life, he works through in a very powerful way.

And that's that's a huge step short of saying God causes the tough.

Yeah.

We brought that on ourselves.

We're the ones that defied him back in the garden.

And yet, even with our defiance, he obviously made a way for us to come back to have the relationship with him he always intended.

And he certainly works through tough to draw us closer to him or to draw us to him if it's the initial uh coming to make that profession of faith.

So uh it's been an awesome ministry, and it continues to be an awesome ministry uh for just that reason.

Uh when you drive uh to interact with folks that have uh been through a disaster for no other reason than just to help, it really gets their attention.

They realize this this is pretty amazing that folks that I don't even know would come across whatever number of miles, in some cases across the country, uh, to help us out.

And so um again, if if you have thought about that at all, uh it's a great ministry.

Uh the Lord can sure use you there.

Uh and uh he it continues to again appoint a lot of folks to the Lord and a lot of a lot of professions of faith.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah, we've obviously, if some of you remember, we had a tornado come through here back in 2012 and seeing disaster relief teams show up for us in northern Kentucky.

We always think about going and sending and people that have been trained here and oriented here going, and then here we needed it.

And then uh my family was deeply affected by the flooding in southeastern Kentucky.

I think that was 2022 in the summer there.

And I remember, you know, driving down to where I went to camp and where my parents live.

And the closer you got to where the disaster was, you would see the disaster relief trailers uh from the Southern Baptist Convention.

You would see the Samaritan Purse trailers and just how many people showed up, and it really impacted people for the gospel of Jesus.

Literally, not just lives helped, but souls saved because of that ministry.

Um, so super grateful for you, and I know others, uh Doug Clayton and Gene Clayton go off and on disasterly trips, Rick Bolan, Tom Owen was a chaplain with you, um, so many others.

I'm sorry if I didn't name everybody, but um, that's a great ministry.

You know, Bill, the other thing that that uh happens uh that actually I realized in a way that I never really thought through, at least not to the depth that I was able to see it occur.

We get so pushed off by what am I gonna say?

How am I gonna interact with people?

That can happen at a funeral.

That can happen with your neighbor who's had a loss.

And we just don't know what to say or how to interact, what what we can uh pass on to them that has uh you know prophetic value, if you will, to help them move forward.

You don't have to say anything, you just show up.

The ministry of presence is huge.

Yep.

God will work through your being there, just being there.

So don't ever let that's the enemy.

The enemy will tell you that you need to have the words, you need to have the knowledge, you just need to have the heart to go, and he will use you just by you being there, I promise you.

That's ministry of presence, just showing up, just showing up.

Well, we're gonna shift gears.

One of the big reasons and motivations for me inviting you to be on the platform with me.

And uh there's we have talked about this for literally years, this book that you have written.

It's published.

Uh, we posted about it when it was published as well.

It's called Churches and Country Clubs.

And the subtitle to it is The Entitlement Delusion.

What's really cool about this is I talked about this book to someone fairly recently, was uh just sort of drawing some of the parallels that we'll talk about in a second.

And this person said, Yeah, it's almost like people just, if they're not careful, they're gonna feel entitled.

I'm like, you just named the subtitle of Bob's book.

So I'm gonna compliment him for choosing that subtitle.

Um, but your whole life story is connected to this as you look at the look at the cover of the book, it's got a uh a golf ball and a hole there.

Uh so I feel like God begun writing this book through you a very long time ago.

Um can you share with everyone?

Start at the very very beginning, you've golfed, you've been a part of golf for a very, very long time.

How did you being connected to golf begin and become a big part of your life?

Oh gosh, I actually was uh born and raised on a golf course.

Oh, there you go.

The public course in uh Evansville, Indiana.

Uh literally lived on the um the seventh fairway.

Uh so I was and my dad played golf, so uh around the game from the very beginning, but equally around the church from the very beginning.

So thus those two uh entities, if you will, uh, and the interaction between them.

But yeah, it's uh it's been a lifelong pursuit for me.

I as I think of it, I've I'm starting to feel a little bad last night.

I was talking to somebody and they asked me the last time I played, and it actually was the fall of 2012, which was before I retired in 2013.

So here's a guy that's been around golf all of his life, hadn't played for how many years?

That's a long time.

That's the way it goes.

Other things come up and it is what it is, but it's a great game.

And uh yeah, that's that's how I got involved with it, basically, is living on a golf course.

And uh again, my dad's interest certainly uh fueled it as well.

That's awesome.

How many golfers, how many people here love golfing?

I'm kind of curious, love it, like love it.

All right, we have several hands.

How many of you all um will you do play you even if you don't necessarily love it?

How many people play it at least?

Uh in addition to those who love it.

All right, we got several.

How many all despise golf?

I don't know.

We got some uh anybody who despise it, maybe three.

Golf has hurt you.

I understand.

Golf can can really hurt you.

Uh, it's humbling, it's a very humbling sport for those who aren't good at it.

Um, in your book, you draw these huge parallels between golf and church and even golf and the gospel.

I was going to just kind of give a summary of what your book's about.

Uh there's several uh things that I tried to bring out uh with it.

Uh the the reality is when as with through all the years of my travel uh with the United States Golf Association visiting golf courses, my mission was to help them with the conditioning of their golf course.

Yeah, I continue to be amazed that they could actually make a living doing that.

You can, and it was great.

The Lord blessed their.

But during those visits, it was very common for it to be pretty clear that people are treating their course slash country club or the game of golf combinations thereof like their religion.

You know, that's that was their focus.

That was uh, and conversely, you can go the other way, or at least I sure saw, and continue to see today uh the the the church uh just being treated like a country club in too many cases.

This is not a club, folks.

I know you know that, I know you've heard that, but yet we still act like it in so many ways.

Uh, and so that was a big desire to uh to try to uh sort that out a little bit, and I share that with uh folks occasionally during visits, superintendents that I might visit with that had a relationship with the Lord where you could kind of go there.

Uh and they started to encourage me to write a book.

Actually, believe it or not, this started a long time ago, and I said, Yeah, I should do that someday.

And I kept saying that, and I finally got to the point where, yeah, I probably ought to either quit saying it or do it, and the door was open to move forward there.

But uh that's a big issue, is certainly the the crossing over of the roles between the church and and golf, and and and certainly uh the fact that that leads right into uh perhaps an even bigger issue in our society today, at least I sure feel entitlement.

We feel like we're old.

I mean, we live in a in a society that basically tells us we're owed.

We're owed a good living, we're entitled to a good job, we're entitled to make so much money, we're entitled to good health, we're entitled to this, we're entitled to that, we're entitled.

No, we're not.

The bottom line is God's word doesn't say that.

Ultimately, he entitles us, our creator entitles us to one thing, and that's to make a choice for or against him.

He gives us the opportunity, he's never gonna force us.

We have to make that choice, and we are entitled to that choice.

But that's pretty much where it ends.

There are promises in God's word, and that's awesome, but promises have contingencies in almost all cases, and ultimately an entitlement basically says, I'm owed that.

Because I'm breathing on planet earth, I'm owed this, that, or the other.

Uh, and that's really uh in a in a kind of a scary way, I think, where our society is today.

And we just need to realize that's just not scriptural, that's not God's word.

Of course, that's part of the problem.

People are setting aside God's word is irrelevant and outdated, and we all know that that's not true, but do we follow it and really apply it to our lives?

And therein lies the the challenge.

And adding to those two kind of uh uh offshoots, if you will, Bill, I I also get very concerned uh about the fact that uh churches statistically we know from several different uh stat gatherers, if you will, including our own uh convention, that most people in most churches right now today don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ.

They may know about him, they may know uh that he's God's son, they may know he died on the cross and rose from the grave, but those are quantum leaps short of actually having a relationship with Jesus Christ.

The enemy knows all those things, uh, but he doesn't have a relationship with the Lord.

And so uh again, the entitlement issue, the fact that uh we, because of our entitlement, think we're old prevents us from coming to the realization that we need a savior, that we're all sinners, that we all fall short, truly, sincerely, completely, absolutely.

And if that's true, then we need a savior.

And of course, Jesus is that savior.

So that head knowledge has to move into a transformation and a realization that you were created, whether you're there or not, you were created, I was created, we all were created to have a relationship with our creator, but we have to choose that.

We have to say yes to him, he's never gonna force us.

And so tried to weave all that in there as well.

There's a lot of stuff, and obviously around the theme of golf, certainly, uh, as well as churches, and uh that was the motive uh in trying to communicate that.

And uh I think the message is very uh relevant across the board.

The challenge can be if you don't have any golf experience, you may not get the same points out of the book that uh those that do would.

But yeah, uh at any rate, that's that uh that's what it was all about.

I love that, brother.

I'm not a golfer, I'd never golfed a game in my life until I came to Hickory Grove.

And I think because I was fresh meat on staff, people are like, you're gonna come golf with us.

And then I stopped getting invited.

I'm great, I I'm great at holding people's beverages for them while they golf.

Um, but uh one of because I'm not really well versed in golfing, I've done a little bit.

Um, I learned a lot by reading your book.

And probably my favorite thing I learned is that there's an actual document called The Rules of Golf.

Yeah.

And one of my favorite quotes in your book that just still sticks with me is that if what you're doing on a golf course does not adhere strictly to the rules of golf, you say it's not actually even golf.

It's only golf if you're adhering to the rules of golf.

And I was like, oh, some of them cheaters out there, some of those people that are bending the rules a little bit, they're not even golfing.

I I wish I could talk that kind of trash.

They would say you're not golfing either because you're terrible.

Um, but I love that.

And uh can you like I mean, I think of the word of God uh when you say that how uh the truth of God's word is sort of a parallel to that.

Uh, what are some things you would add to that, Perry?

I think the obvious parallel is uh can you be a Christian without uh acknowledging and applying God's word?

Yeah.

I mean, there's there's differences obviously in the intensity of reading the Bible.

There are some things that are just much more difficult to understand.

I think sometimes we let those prevent us from reading what we can't understand.

But the important, obviously, uh things that that should occur when we first start reading God's word are uh I would call them low-hanging fruits, where you can get them very easily.

And salvation is just that.

The fact that we're all sinners and that we all need a savior, and Jesus is a savior.

The fact that God created us to have a relationship with him, and we messed it up in the garden.

And as a result, obviously sin separates that relationship, and yet he loved us so much, it's amazing to think about the creator of all that is that loves us so much that he found a way back to us.

He actually sent his son, he put on flesh, uh, came and lived and died for us so that we could reconnect with him, have the relationship with him that he intended all along that we messed up, and yet because of his love, he provided a way back.

But we still have to choose him.

That's right.

Uh and so yeah, there's definitely a parallel.

And yeah, I I get on a soapbox sometimes, uh probably with both, but uh with golf for sure, because the the bottom line is that's what defines the game.

You can do whatever you want out there on the on those uh eighteen holes or nine, whichever, but if it's not applying the rules of golf as you move along, you're not playing the game of golf.

And you so don't kid yourself.

And I think the same thing applies to our relationship.

It's true for Christian Walk.

We have to acknowledge this is God's word.

And if we uh have a relationship with Him, we're obviously gonna want to spend time in it and learn more and grow more uh as we do.

And so it's awesome.

The Bible defines what the gospel is, it defines his salvation uh plan for us and how we get to choose that.

And anything that we do apart from that is not the gospel, it's not truth.

Uh so I love that parallel.

I love uh and I noticed this with uh Britney Walker's book when we had her on the platform too.

You lean really into the personal stories when I read a book, especially because I've known you for nearly 30 years.

And so reading your personal stories, one thing I did not know is that you never once bought a golf ball.

You found golf balls on the golf course that you lived on and beyond.

And so it became almost like I will refuse to buy a golf ball because I have so many.

And you held to that.

You never did buy one.

So I thought that was really cool.

Um, but also that's a fun personal story.

But one of the things you did share, and I was wondering if you would share it in your book, is um the grief that you and Rhonda have experienced and the loss of a of your adult daughter who had a stroke and ended up dying young.

And how, I mean, I think I can see how obviously you and her leading grief share here.

God has not wasted that pain that you've been through.

Um, how does that connect?

How do you see God writing your story through what you've experienced in grief?

Probably like he does when he works through most of our lives, we don't really realize how he's doing it in full detail.

It's going to impact uh different people differently.

And but we just came, became very convicted that uh we needed to go through grief share, which we did.

Um, and obviously that made it very clear in both of our hearts that we need to try to be involved there as much as we can.

Grief is a strange thing, uh to say the least.

It's a very difficult thing, and you never get over the loss of someone you love.

True.

Uh it just doesn't happen.

Don't let anybody tell you time heals all.

It doesn't, but it'll help you get to the point where you can move on, uh uh just recognizing those scars and hurts go with you.

And God can turn those into positives if we let him.

Uh, not that the event was positive.

Of course, that's not true.

As a matter of fact, what's the shortest verse in the Bible?

Uh, we think about when Jesus wept.

He didn't weep because he he was concerned about what was going to happen to Lazarus.

He knew he was going to raise Lazarus from the dead.

He knew that was going to happen shortly.

Why did he weep?

I believe he wept because he saw all of those there with Mary and Martha that were weeping because of Lazarus' death.

He wept because of their sorrow.

He had compassion on what they were going through, and he has compassion on us.

Remember, we're living in a broken world because of us, not because of him.

He never intended it to be this way.

And when we go through tough, uh it hurts him and he's there.

But again, we have to reach out.

And when we do uh through our relationship, uh he will show us the way.

He will turn the tough into better.

Uh not that again it goes away, because that's that's a huge uh misconception, but he certainly will work through the tough.

It's it's as I mentioned uh earlier, it's amazing to me how God does use tough.

You know, when things are going well, we don't pay much attention.

You know, we do what we want, the way we want it, the time that we want.

We may come to services on Sunday morning, and that's all good stuff.

Uh, but the reality is when you go through tough, you get connected or you want to get connected, you certainly reach out to him in a more intense, different way.

He'll use that to draw you closer to himself if we just let him do it.

So true.

Yeah.

You use uh a couple of crossics at least, maybe more than a couple in your book.

Uh one of them's GPS.

What does that stand for?

Global positioning system.

There you go.

That's not what you meant.

I always wondered what that meant on my phone.

It actually in the chapter was expansion off of global positioning system to God's personal sacrifice.

Uh the fact that he, again, even with our uh defying him, loved us so much that he sent his son.

Uh that's huge.

Again, folks, we're talking about the creator of all that is.

He doesn't need anything from us, but he wants a relationship with you and I.

Uh, and when we say yes to him, and that happens only when we realize we need a savior.

You can't say yes just because you want an insurance policy.

Yeah, we have to come to the realization that we've fallen short, we can never live up to the standards of a holy God, uh, and that we need him as our Lord and Savior.

And when we truly make that profession of faith uh and ask Jesus into our hearts, things change in a big way.

It doesn't mean we don't have tough.

Tough's still going to be around because we live in a broken world.

Don't expect that to go away.

But going through and dealing with the tough totally changes, and that's huge.

It's so true.

So that's that's what the GPS was trying to point to.

You, I told you this earlier this week too, but every chapter is they're very it's such a readable book.

There's short chapters, you can read it so quickly.

Uh, but every chapter you're you're catching these parallels between golf and country club and the entitlement that we we fall into sometimes as churches.

And then you're thinking, all right, cool, I'm I'm getting the theme of this chapter, and you get to that last page, and it would always land the plane into the gospel, every single chapter.

It was almost like uh an altar call every single chapter.

Um, one of the other across, then you've you taught me this many years ago, was actually the word golf G-O-L-F.

Explain that one to everybody.

Uh actually, that that came from uh Payne Stewart.

Some of you probably know the name.

Payne is uh was a great golfer, won the U.S.

Open twice, but unfortunately lost his life in a tragic plane incident.

Again, you may remember that.

Well, the bottom line is uh at Paine's memorial service, he was a member of First Orlando Baptist Church.

At that time, Jim Henry was the senior pastor.

Jim therefore put together the primary message for Payne's uh memorial service, uh, and and that was used for that.

Uh two different ways of spelling off.

Uh they shared uh Payne was a Christian, he he loved the Lord and was trying to uh strengthen his walk with the Lord through a lot of different activities.

People probably don't realize uh at that to the to the level that it was happening.

But uh the two different ways of spelling off that uh Pastor Henry shared then was God offers love and forgiveness.

G-O-L-F.

God offers love and forgiveness or go out lost forever.

You got a choice.

It goes back to that choice thing.

You know, we have we are entitled to choose.

That's where the entitlements end.

It's the only thing we're entitled to do.

That's the only thing we're entitled to do.

He there's uh promises that occur when we do certain things and live in this in the ways that the the Bible lays out for us that are promises that apply, but those are promises.

There's a difference between promises and entitlement.

And so that's basically what where that came from.

I actually got to meet uh Jim Henry, uh uh retired quite a while back.

He's kind of been on a speaking tour.

He spoke at the Cove, which is the Billy Graham uh training center, great uh ministry they have there.

Uh Ron and I went one time and when he was speaking, and I actually was able to corner him for a couple minutes and said, Jim, where did how did you come up with God offers love and forgiveness or go out lost forever?

Because I'm thinking that's pretty creative, you know, uh, because Payne was a golfer.

So you take a the way of spelling golf differently that obviously has a a scriptural message to it.

He looked at me and said, I'm really not sure.

I might have got that from a salesman.

But I was expecting something really profound, like his staff had a retreat or something and they went out and sort of, but that's not what happened.

But you know, I when it when that occurred, I started using that uh on visits a lot.

You know, I would use it to emphasize the people.

You might think golf's a game, but it's not.

It's the most important choice you'll ever make.

And then you opens the door to share that.

That's good.

And that was another thing that kind of eventually was part of pushing me to okay, I need to either shut up about it or I need to write the book and move on.

So yeah, uh, that's that's uh where that came from, and that's why it's there.

Do I remember hearing you say this?

That you know, you were writing.

We had talked about years of this book you would write, and then you're like, it's happening, it's it's going, I'm about to send it in, and things like that.

But I think I do you am I making this up that one of your biggest reasons for doing it too is also for family that you hope will read this book?

Yeah, I I I have given the book to uh my kids, my grandkids, uh, and and a few others that we kind of consider family.

And yeah, I absolutely I'm not sure any of them read it yet, quite frankly.

I like to think that they have, but I know they're doing a lot of stuff.

So yeah, that was certainly an a motivator.

Um, you know, uh to get the story out.

It's certainly hopefully to have a little bit of a push in in the golf industry.

Again, have no idea how that's gonna work, and that's probably good.

I think that uh in most cases we're better off not to realize in full scale how the Lord's using what we're doing.

Just let him use it because it's not about us, it's about him.

There you go.

But yeah, I sure did.

It was the kids and uh the the family in total was definitely uh uh part of the reason for doing it.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Anything more you would share about this message in your book that you would hope we as a church would remember and embrace.

We just need to get serious about the reality of our relationship with Jesus Christ.

We talk about it all the time, we hear the word relationship thrown around a lot.

Actually, a lot of times you don't, but even when you do hear a relationship, we need to be very sure where our relationship is and not uh be duped by the enemy because the enemy is going to keep you uh in a blocked position as long as he can.

A position that says, well, you go to church every week, you contribute, you're part of the volunteering and a couple different activities, you've done some awesome things.

You're good, you're okay.

Uh you know, and I know that we can go through all that stuff and do all that stuff and never have a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

So don't kids yourself.

If you have any doubt, settle it.

Come to a realization.

Know that you've placed your hand in those nail-scarred hands.

That's what it's all about.

It's not about this book.

This book is is uh is totally, if it's not a vehicle to that end, it's it's worthless.

Uh and so I think that's a huge issue.

And I think that again uh is where the Western church, especially built today, has is uh largely drifted.

You know, we like the interaction, the activities, uh, and we come and we do things and we get involved.

And so you have to ask the question Am I attending a church, a church, or the church?

A church is the club, the church is the body of Christ.

And you're only a member of that if you've made a profession in Jesus Christ.

So therein lies the the issues.

That's you know, again, uh you all think about it.

Tell me if you think I'm wrong.

Well, don't tell me now, tell me later.

But the bottom line is life is about Him.

You know, it's it's about a relationship with Him.

He created us for that.

People want to, what's life about?

Well, it's real simple.

We overcomplicate it.

Not talking about your career or your family, all those things.

Those are awesome things that the Lord will bless with, and and uh, and certainly uh depending on his plan for our lives, use and but the real purpose is to have a relationship with our creator.

Having a relationship with our creator is what it's all about.

So again, when you think through the book and all that we've been talking about, that's where the rubber meets the cart path.

Do you have a relationship with Jesus Christ?

You know.

If you don't, make it right.

I can't think of a better way to end that interview.

That was awesome.

Super thankful for you, brother.

And what I'd like for us to do, we're gonna kind of land the plane and have another worship song in a moment, but I want to just take a moment to pray.

I want to pray for God to continue to keep your body strong and continue to write your story.

Uh, he's written it all this time.

You've let him have the pen and he's been writing it, and it's been such an awesome story for me to witness personally and all those close to you.

I'm super thankful that everyone here also got to read the story of how God has used your life and all the different things you've done to just point to the gospel.

And um, and in a moment, we'll pray for those who need to turn their life over to him and enter into that relationship to do that finally today, if they haven't yet.

So, as you say that, brother, it really strikes me.

Uh, you all probably know this, but the reality is every life is a story.

Whether you write a book or not, every life is a story.

You're precious.

He created you, he loves you, he wants that relationship.

Uh, and you do have a story.

Whether you write a book or not, he will work through your story to point others to him if you just choose him and let him have his way.

I love that.

In fact, what we were gonna do is, you know, I was gonna pray for Bob and he was gonna step off, and I was gonna read a verse, and I was gonna pray again, and we're gonna sing a song.

But we landed so hardcore on the gospel and on what he just said.

The one verse I wanted to share with you, I'll read that now.

We'll pray now, and then the worship team is gonna come and lead us in a song.

And as I pray, as this song is being sung, if you've not embraced the freedom of salvation of a relationship with him, do it today.

The verse I wanted to read was Romans 8 28.

And it's just a reminder that every single person here, you have a story.

It says, and we know that for those who love God, all things work together for good for those who are called according to his purpose.

All the different things that Bob has experienced, the reason it got turned into ministry or got turned into something that proclaimed the gospel to family, to us here and to the world, is because he just kept loving the Lord, kept embracing the relationship we had with him.

If you go read the parables that Jesus taught, especially the ones that are a little scary, that talks about in the end, in the day of the Lord, everyone being separated, the sheep from the goats, um the big difference maker is do you know him or not?

It's relationship.

And if you know him and you love him, even when you go through through something hard, like a diagnosis, a death of a loved one, or just a change in your job, or even a change in your way you had to serve because you just can't serve the way you used to be able to serve.

God doesn't waste it.

He by you loving God, you're putting the pen in his hand.

I don't have to be in control anymore.

I'm not entitled to anything.

I just will love you and trust you with all that you're gonna do.

Could that be your next step this morning?

I invite you to take that step as we pray.

Will you bow with me?

Father, in the quietness of this moment, there might be someone here that's yet to turn their life over to you, yet to embrace this free gift of salvation, your love and forgiveness that you offer.

The personal sacrifice that you made.

It's still setting there.

We're adjacent to it, but maybe not embraced it personally for ourselves.

If someone here has never done that, it is my prayer that even now they would call upon your name and say, Jesus, today, right here, right now, I turn from just playing church, I turn from my entitlement, and here and now I simply say, Save me.

Enter into my heart, my life.

I want to know you.

I want to know you and love you the rest of the of my very life.

Father, if whoever might be doing that, help them know they've been, they've begun a relationship with you, and it will change them forever.

Eternity with you is now theirs, not by anything they've done to deserve it or earn it, but because you offer it freely through your son Jesus.

So, Father, thank you for whatever first steps might have been taken, even now in this moment.

We thank you for that now, and we pray all this in the name of your son Jesus.

Amen.

Amen.