S2:E9 Celebrating the Wins, with CJ Epperson

James Book: We are back again, back again with our group. I I

Dave: Not yet. Now you're back again.

James Book: yeah, okay. Three, two, one. Way we're back again with some high rollers, baby. Dave Jones, who's my colleague every week, but kind of switching roles here. I'm kind of the MC for this program, and I'll tell you why if you missed the last one. And our dear friend and colleague and brother in Christ, fellow warrior CJ Epperson, the Central Christian Church in Cynthia, Kentucky. I have enjoyed personally working with both these guys. and they they are an example for our movement and and a testimony to how God is working in their not personal lives and their families, but also their churches and their community. So if you missed last week's, go back and watch it. But a recap, Dave Jones at Millwood Church of Christ, Millwood, Ohio, CJ Upperson, Central Christian Church, Cynthia, stories are very similar in regards to their growth and their development. Years ago, was it 2020, Dave? You guys moved into your new facility.

Dave: 2019.

James Book: 2019. an existing facility that was antiquated, functionally obsolete. they not only couldn't handle the growth, but there was some some just the building was just tired. And and it and so do we just dump millions of dollars or thousands of dollars into this old building, or do we take a leap of faith and get a building that can service the needs that we want? And they did. And it's beautiful. CJ, their congregation and leadership about a year or so ago agreed that they do not want to stay where they are. They can't. They've outgrown it. Again, it's a functionally obsolete facility. and so they have brought their church family and their leadership and the body along with the idea we're gonna sell this. They've got a couple of options.

Dave: you

James Book: All the options are going to be way better than where they are, and it allows them and gives them permission to expand their own spiritual centers and congregation and grow. Now that's really what the kingdom is all about. Growth. Okay. Read the book of Acts about growth. Okay. and so So let's talk now. Dave will start with you. You guys cut the ribbon, everybody went in, it was it was euphoria. But with a new building and all the new horizons and all the new smell, the new carpet that hey, this toilet's never been used before. Woo, there were some challenges you guys had. Talk us talk to us about those.

Dave: Yeah, definitely some challenges and let me just say this. I don't think I had a chance last episode, but CJ, it's an honor to share the screen with you and to watch what's going on in Kentucky at your congregation and the work you're doing throughout the brotherhood. You're an encourager, you're a dynamic preacher, and anybody that knows you knows that God is using you in a great way. And it's no surprise that the church is doing so well at Cynthia Anna, because

James Book: Yeah, absolutely.

Dave: we have a great God and he's got a pretty good preacher down there too. really you're an example

James Book: Amen.

CJ Epperson: Thank you. Thanks, Nate.

Dave: to. to a lot of us and we're really grateful for your zeal for the ministry and what you're doing. It's exciting. So we moved here in 2019 and the beauty of the next year was COVID. And interestingly enough, I hear a lot of guys talk about pre-COVID numbers, that kind of stuff. COVID didn't impact us like it did a lot of other churches, but what really did impact us in the first year that we were here was we had built a culture at the old building. that I assumed, and I think the rest of us did too, we would just move the 175 people that were coming to church at our old building into a new facility with the same song leaders, the same piano, and just carry on the way we were going. And now we had more space, more room, and we would just be what we were, but in a new building. And very quickly we found out we could not continue being what we were, because the people that were coming into the church we're discovering a church that was a little bit foreign to them. A lot of our folks came from more of a suburban area that we're moving into the area. They're looking for a new church and all of a sudden they walk into a place that was sort of like 1960s in a brand new building.

James Book: Yeah.

CJ Epperson: Yeah.

Dave: Our hymns were the same. The style of what we were doing was the same. Hopefully warm and friendly people and all the stuff that you would expect in a church. And what we discovered is that our culture had to change. we were attracting a lot more young people with families. And so we had to put in place some systems that helped us accommodate the growth we were experiencing. The very first thing was we discovered that Preacher Dave could not call on and visit every person that walked through the door anymore. And so we had to spread out the ministry of welcoming and greeting people into the assembly and also into the church. And what we found, what we needed very early on was a system of small groups. And so we introduced small groups within that first year, something as I've talked about before that our elders had been opposed to. But based on the need and the system we built, our small groups just really took off and became a place where we could welcome and care for other people in ways that before we expected the elders and the preacher to do all the time. So that was a beautiful aspect for us. A lot of the couples that we had coming to the church had young children who weren't used to keeping their kids quiet for an hour or more. And so we introduced a children's church program during that time for kids up to kindergarten, first grade. And that just really became a benefit because what we discovered is that parents who weren't used to keeping their kids quiet, you know, and we could say, shame on the parents. They need to be better parents. They need to train them at home. whatever, they weren't doing that. And they were just leaving and going somewhere else. And we wanted the chance for them to hear the gospel. And if they weren't going to be here, they weren't going to hear the gospel. Number two, we found a great benefit in them having their children hear about Jesus at a level that they could understand. And so that was just a huge benefit for us in doing that. And the one thing that COVID did for us, it really facilitated the need to change our music. Our song leaders who were leading worship, they weren't coming to church during the COVID months because their children or even themselves, they were either sick or didn't feel comfortable being around a large group. And so we had a lot of young people with some musical ability and we shifted our music style to a more contemporary style of music. We did our best to honor the hymns and to appreciate the older generation that wanted those things. But we really grabbed ahold of where we were as a church and understanding, hey, we're not in the past anymore. We can't linger there anymore. We are now at a point where we've got to keep moving forward and pressing on. And the beautiful part of it was the elders were on board with it. Our deacons

James Book: Yeah. Amen.

Dave: were on board with it. Not because they were fans of the music shift or small groups or children's church, because there was a lot of people that weren't But they understood the necessity of reaching a new generation of people that needed to hear about Jesus and the realization that if we wanted to be a church that was viable within the next five to 10 years, we had to make some changes. And so those are just a couple of the things we did in putting systems in place because we had prepared very well to build a building and to move into it. What we had not prepared for was to be a church that existed in this building, welcoming new people. in. And God blessed us with the people and we've just tried to work hard to make sure that they had a place where they could worship comfortably.

James Book: Yeah. And I I think of it like this, CJ and Dave, it's like a brand new car. Everybody wants a brand new car. But if you've been driving a 1975 Plymouth, you better get adjusted new car because it's gonna look a lot different than the old car. I mean, I I got into a brand new car the other day and I was driving and I I couldn't find the window wipers. They're nothing's spelled out anymore. You used to say wiper, but now because so many people coming and visiting in different languages, I I finally found it. It it was a man with a peg leg holding a bucket. That that was the window wiper.

Dave: Jim, you need a chauffeur.

James Book: So yeah, I do, right? So so the idea is Dave's like, just because it's new doesn't mean it's going to answer all your problems. It might create a whole nother list of problems. And if you listen to our podcast two or three weeks ago, we we focused on that last chapter, John. Now Dave and his leadership had to make a decision about the nets. Maybe it's time to throw the nets on the other side. Yeah.

Dave: We threw him to the other side.

James Book: CJ, obviously, you know, last week's program focused on your vision. For this new facility, new property. You guys are are definitely decided to do this. The church is on board. Now we're just waiting for God to put the pieces together. Let's talk about how God has blessed you in spite of a functionally obsolete facility or an old no parking. I mean, you could have used all these excuses

CJ Epperson: Yeah.

James Book: to just limit the growth. Hey, parking's bad. Where you called your children's department the dungeon. Yeah. Okay.

CJ Epperson: Place of the dungeon, baby. Like it's it's well known. Like it's just Well yeah, so yeah, I came right after COVID. So I think when I got here there was some of that, Dave, like what you talked about there about we're gonna get back to before COVID. But I knew the shift in the church leadership and the shift in the church in general that was gonna happen based on COVID. Because I I think a lot of people during that time were still when I came here, we're still in the everything's gonna go online. And I was like, Hey look, if everybody else thinks they can go online.

Dave: .

CJ Epperson: We're gonna be the only place in town then that still says, come to us. Like there's something we're offering, there's something we're doing, there's a difference in being with the church or meeting with the church online. And so in our leadership during that time, I was like, man, we could do great stuff right here. And just what kicked off, what happened was we really started leaning

Dave: . you

CJ Epperson: into discipleship and baptism as a church. And our eldership was really on board with that at the time. It was just two guys as our elders. But they loved it. And I'll be honest with you, I got really close to those two guys. One guy's already gone to be with the Lord, Mike Workman. Great dude. Great dude. And he used to say, CJ, they can't argue with baptisms. And I'd be like, that's right. They can't argue with baptisms. And in the first five years of me being here, so before 2026, we baptized just under 200 people. And so from that into a mission 120 model, you want to talk about resources. When I walked up and said we're going to baptize 120 people between now and 2030, I had people coming up to me that Sunday and like, we're going to do that by the end of 2027. And I'm like, wonderful. Go

Dave: Hey.

James Book: Ha ha ha.

CJ Epperson: get them. Like go get them. So,

Dave: you

CJ Epperson: but in that, I was able to make a shift that Dave talked about there. I was able to teach and preach through the Great Commission that it's not about CJ baptizing. It's not about the elders baptizing. And it's not about us doing all the evangelism personal discipleship. It's about the church doing it.

Dave: . .

CJ Epperson: To where I've told both of you guys before my favorite statistic of all those, 80% of the 200, just under 200 baptisms, were done by people in this church. Not by me, not by the elders. Two 80% by other people in the congregation. So what have we maximized on? There's a real need and opportunity in Cynthia, Kentucky for people to be discipled into Christ, to be baptized and to continue to be discipled, just like Jeff Fall talked about in an earlier episode of this. And I'm telling you, that model really has worked. And so everything

James Book: Yeah.

CJ Epperson: we sell here is based on that. Everything we do here is based on that. We have big visions for a new building. We have big ideas for what we're gonna do in a new building, all the way up to starting a Christian school, all the way up to it being a hub for the natural

Dave: .

CJ Epperson: disasters that are happening all over our state and Ohio and Indiana, where people could use this as a hub. And I've talked to people at IDES about that already. And we're trying to get all those programs. But when it comes down to it, I just keep telling people, we want to baptize and disciple. And to do that, our vision is we need a facility to do that out of. So you want to talk about what we capitalized on? The Great Commission. We know what God has called us to do as a church, to disciple, to baptize, to disciple. And that's what we do. So every program, every facility, every decision goes back to those decisions. And we've got issues and problems and growth and pains and all those things, but we've got good ones. And I keep telling the church every time we have a good one. Hey, let's have a good growing pain. A good growing pain

James Book: Yeah.

CJ Epperson: will lead us somewhere good, not somewhere bad if we handle it the right way.

Dave: That's

James Book: Well, you

Dave: good.

James Book: you mentioned mission one twenty, and of course, you know, my ears like because we CRA was able to roll that out and I'm so amazed at the number of churches. You and Dave, again, you both have far exceeded the hundred and twenty in a in regular attendance, but you guys decided to make the hundred and twenty baptisms over four years a priority. And so you're still a part of that whole mission one twenty vision. CJ, you you guys did something at the back of your building I thought was pretty interesting. Let me just say this. I was asked by CJ a few weeks ago to do they they didn't call it a revival. You you threw the nets on the other side, call it a conference. What'd you average 230 sunny morning, sunny night, Wednesday?

CJ Epperson: Well, we we averaged one hundred eighty. We had two thirty two on Wednesday

Dave: .

CJ Epperson: night. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

James Book: Okay, that's fantastic. And when nobody and CG, I remember you staying on stage and going, remember, revivals don't work. And it was packed all every night.

CJ Epperson: Yeah. Yeah.

James Book: but we had yet you had baptisms the following Sunday. I knew I did that revival with you last fall. There was like a re there was a baptism almost every and I'd never seen the kind of energy at a church when it came to came to salvation and an earnestness to serve the Lord, but it's it's It's because that entire church and and it's a lot of it has to do with your leadership is really helping just hyper focusing on discipling

Dave: .

James Book: and growing and making a massive impact in Cynthia. And the payoff is the growth and the development and both congregations.

CJ Epperson: in the back of our room that board that we're having people find.

James Book: Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, boom.

CJ Epperson: Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll I'll give credit where credit's due on this. Wayne Smith told me I I was at Sarah Christian Village the week he died at a minister's lunch. And Wayne kinda had his I don't know, his way about him and he got all the young preachers that were there around him. And I ended up I was sitting next to him at one point and he was kinda giving advice and

Dave: you

CJ Epperson: Wayne Smith loves Cynthia because he served Unity Christian Church before he went to Lexington. And he loves this area. And he said to me, and I'll never forget, he said, CJ, just celebrate what you want them to do again. Don't always complain. Just celebrate what you want them to do again. And I said, Wayne, what have you done? He said, If some if God is going to save someone at their baptism, in their baptism, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to celebrate that for the rest of my life. And so

James Book: Mm.

CJ Epperson: when I came here, I was like, we're celebrating. We're not doing this like half-hearted golf clap thing. We're not like just, well, amen, brother. Welcome to like we're we are celebrating when someone's baptized. And that's not hard for me. It's my personality. We baptize everybody we baptize. I cry. Like I cannot help. I'm about to cry right now. These two kids we baptized Sunday and the adult guy we baptized Sunday, like I have prayed for them and with them so hard and tried so hard to get to them to this point.

Dave: . .

CJ Epperson: So we celebrate it. So we put a board up in the back of our room. Everybody who's baptized during mission 120 is just gonna sign that board and date that board. And you wanna talk about one thing that will have to come from the old building to the new building is that board. Like, cause we're just gonna celebrate that. And I'm gonna tell you, I've told our guys in 2030, when the mission's complete and we're past mission one twenty, we're not gonna say,

Dave: Okay. you

James Book: Amen, brother.

CJ Epperson: Look at that board. We did what we were supposed to do the last five years. We're gonna say,

James Book: Mm.

CJ Epperson: look at that board and see what God's done. Most of your names will be on that board, to be honest with you. See what God can do. Cause we I just

James Book: Amen.

CJ Epperson: take what Wayne Smith said really seriously. Just celebrate what you want him to do over and over again. So that's why if okay, Tim Cox is a guy in our church. I've used his name a ton in everywhere I preach. I loved Tim. Jim, you've met him. Awesome guy. Awesome guy now. Terrible guy before Jesus. Awesome guy now. I will stand up every Sunday when he baptizes somebody and not only say he baptized so-and-so, but Tim Cox baptized them. And

James Book: Yes, yes.

CJ Epperson: that is like not to make him more than he is. That's not, well, I was baptized by Tim or I was baptized by Tyler. I was baptized. That is just to say, I want Tim Cox to know I'm celebrating what he did because it really matters. And so you want to know why that board's up there is just another celebration thing. Every Sunday, I have an elder every Sunday.

Dave: .

James Book: Yeah.

CJ Epperson: When he walks out, he hits it like he's a football player and he says, I gotta add to this this week.

James Book: Love it. What a visual, right? A constant visual reminder. This is what we're here for to save people.

CJ Epperson: Yeah, yeah, yep. Yep, yep.

James Book: So, Dave, talk about obviously we focused on the physical structure, how the blessings of a brand new facility and all the things you're able to do that tangibly, spiritually, what are some of the things that have happened at Millwood that you can say it wasn't because of the building, but the building has allowed us to celebrate these victories. I know you kind of touched on it last program, but kind of remind us a little bit of how the building has been used as such a great tool to to burst so many great ministries at Millwood.

Dave: You know, it's interesting, Jim, as a preacher in the ministry for so long, there's a thousand books out there and all kinds of conferences on how to build churches and grow churches, almost as if you build the building, solves all your problems or growth is the answer to all of our problems. If we could just

James Book: Mm-hmm.

Dave: get more people. And really what we've discovered is it creates new challenges and maybe more opportunities. And it's real easy for us to get bogged down in those challenges and to, to, get into the weeds on systems and techniques. And that's sort of my, I'm a behind the scenes kind of guy, operations guy. And one of the beauty, beautiful things that's happened here in the last few years is we've added an associate, Zach Rayburn. lot of people know him. think CJ, does the retreat with you every year. Cool guy. And what he brought was new life to us in different perspective and a lot

James Book: Mm-hmm.

Dave: of questions. that bothered the snot out of me. Why do we do

James Book: Mm-hmm.

Dave: this? How come we still do that? Always wanting to push the envelope and where do we go from there? And we've really grown together, if you will, and I need somebody like that to push the limits and to ask those kinds of questions. Otherwise, I'm gonna get bogged down in that.

James Book: Mm-hmm.

Dave: And really what we've seen then is this new building has opened up the doors to a whole brand new generation. of people that don't know Jesus Christ. And, you know, for years, we would baptize a couple and then baptize their kids, and then we'd baptize their cousins and their aunts and uncles, and it became very insulated. And what we've seen in the opportunity of this new building and the culture that we're living in right now in our community, so many young families that are coming in asking questions that I haven't been asked in 20 years. You know, I just assumed everybody went to Bible school when they were a kid in Vacation Bible School with grandma. And all of a sudden, people are saying, well, tell me,

James Book: Hmm.

Dave: how do you know God exists and how do you know the Bible is reliable? And Zach was able to come in and really help us identify an apologetic approach to evangelism that we hadn't practiced before, to the point that he's put together a book for us now that we publish and we use in every new example. We're leading through a book called The Journey, and it's taking people on a journey from discovering is God real? Is the Bible reliable? Is Jesus really the answer to every problem I have in life and the solution I need for eternity? And we walk them through that. we're making disciples, as CJ talked about, we're baptizing people and those people are ringing the bell on the outside of the

CJ Epperson: Mm.

Dave: building celebrating what just happened, we're more confident today than we were five years ago that they understand why they became Christians, just not the need to become a Christian. It's just

CJ Epperson: Yeah.

James Book: Yeah.

Dave: not the golden ticket into heaven, but it's a change of life that they

James Book: Yeah.

Dave: need to make. And so those have been the opportunities because of of the new people that have come in and the opportunities to reach them. Let me tell you this. We had one Sunday morning after the service, I'm standing out in the lobby and this woman comes out from the auditorium that we had baptized a few months earlier and it struck me, she's all tatted up. She has purple hair.

James Book: Mm-hmm.

Dave: She would not have felt welcome in our church five years earlier, but today we do our best to no longer look at the outside, but to understand every person has a soul.

James Book: Yes.

Dave: Every person

CJ Epperson: Mm-hmm.

Dave: is dealing with issues and they need solutions to them. And we've got the final answer and that answer is Jesus. And so we're just helping them understand who Jesus is and in that process, having the opportunity to share life with them and for them to discover new ways to enjoy life and to experience God's glory. So anyway.

James Book: Yeah. Absolutely. I'm on the phone every day with elders and preachers, kind of consulting and coaching them. So I had a preacher friend call me up and he rolled out mission one 22 weeks ago. And I mean, he had been gearing it up, and and it was the rollout after Hillsborough, everybody's, you know, everybody came off the mountain, man. We're gonna take, you know, we're on, we're on mission, man. Which is great. Hillsborough does that, right? It gets us all excited. So he rolls it out. And he called me up. He said, I'm so discouraged. What? He goes, I d there was no excitement in the audience. And and he, you know, he's because I kind of stopped in the middle of the sermon and was Hey, what's going on? You know? And one of his leaders is kind of like, why you know, baptism is that's all you're gonna talk about? You know, he goes, The denomination world, they hand out candy to kids who get baptized. I mean, it was just like anything negative that could be said was. And he was just like, and I say, okay, whoa. And I'm and this kind of CJ's comment reminded me of this story. You got to celebrate, man, even if you're the only one celebrating right now. You may be the only guy at the party. That's okay. It's more cake for you. All right. So if everybody's not jumping on board, God's there with you. He's high fiving you, and the people will catch up.

CJ Epperson: Yeah.

James Book: But you cannot let that discourage you. Well, the following week, it was almost like a different audience. You know, people were taking the they printed these new because mission 120 is about get guest cards, get the seed in everyone's hands so they can sow it. They were taking those things like candy, and he's like, Jim, you're not it's like a different church, different audience. But you're right, we gotta let the people catch up with us. So what do you tell the preacher, CJ, the guy who's listening to you right now and going, we could we could have done that, we could be doing that, but we haven't. And I just don't have the energy behind me. What do you tell that guy?

CJ Epperson: Well, it I think it varies on on who the guy is a little bit. If the guy's saying I don't have the energy, if it's a I'm burned out, I'm tired, you gotta get some help with that. And that is, I think, one of the main things for a leader is to be able to to understand that. when they're tired and they're burned out in that way. But if it's just I just we just don't have that energy that I it's a corporate body, we don't have that energy right now, listen, like

Dave: .

James Book: As a corporate body.

CJ Epperson: This is gonna sound so pragmatic. I know it is, but hang with me. Go baptize somebody. And if that doesn't infuse energy into your church building, you might relocate. Not the building, but ministry. Yeah, no, I'm just kidding. I'm just

James Book: No, that's true. You preacher, get out of there.

CJ Epperson: kidding. That's a joke, but it's kind of true. no, really, if there's no energy, create the energy. I read a book a long time ago that said about the energy flywheel, you've got to get that thing turning, and every church is different. Okay, so I I joke about potlucks being the only place some people have fellowship. No, if there's no energy but a potluck gets the fellowship going and it gets the energy going, have the best potluck there's ever been a potluck. If your church is still a church where a sing spiration gets the energy going, have the sing spiration. Like do the thing that gets the energy going that is godly in your church. And then champion that. Look, Jim Book told me forever ago, you know, he's like, the energy around here is based on you, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Dave: Okay.

CJ Epperson: And so I started watching what Jim would do when he's at Kissimmee. And Jim would come up on the stage half time, he's clapping for himself before he ever preached. And I was like, that's a weird thing to do to clap for yourself before you preach. And then I just figured out, no, it was feeding energy into the people that they then would reciprocate. And you've got to feed energy before it's going to be reciprocated. So I would say to a lot of preachers, I love preachers, everybody at our church knows that. I've said this a million

Dave: Okay. Okay.

CJ Epperson: times, and it will always be true. My favorite people. Outside of my wife and kids on the planet, are preachers. That's why I want my son to be a preacher, by the way. But, anyways, they're preachers. I love preachers. But I get so tired of preachers acting like we have the worst job in the world and that we're against the whole world. We have the greatest job in the world. First of all, we're paid to study the Bible. Where do you find a better job than that? I mean, I'm serious. That is a great job. Second of all, we are we are paid to watch people's lives change and

Dave: you

James Book: Mm. Ha ha ha. This is true.

CJ Epperson: to help them change their lives. That is the greatest thing in the world that anybody could ever do. And I believe we're called by God to do that. So if there's no energy in your church, if there's no energy in your pulpit, get some energy in your pulpit. I mean, just it's gonna work. So that's the first thing I'd say about energy. Second thing is if you do something good at your church, celebrate it. Ben Merrill's son Matt Merrill said, whatever your church does right now, right, celebrate that. It might not be that in five years, but right now, whatever that is, celebrate it. In five years, if that's going to change, because the potluck doesn't work anymore, but a revival does celebrate that in five years. But don't try to make your church something that it's not. So we talk about this great conference we had. You wanna know why that works for Central? I'm being really transparent why I think it works and why I don't know that it will always work. We've baptized all these new Christians and I told them you need to grow up in the Bible quickly. You need to mature quickly. And then I've told them we're gonna bring the best preachers we know to bring. We're gonna bring Jim Book, we're gonna bring Aaron Davis, we're gonna bring John Weiss, we're gonna bring the best preachers. And before that, Terry Peer and Alex Eddy and Brian Schultz, we brought all these guys in and I've said, you come and listen to them and learn from them, and it will change your life. And right now, all these new Christians are like, I'll be there every single night. They're still

James Book: Mm.

CJ Epperson: on fire, they're still in it, they still wanna know, they're in that. And then I tell them, and if you'll bring your friends who don't know Jesus, there's a likelihood that they're gonna be inspired by these people better than they will be by me. And they're going to become Christians. And we've just brought the energy where we know the energy will be brought. So that's what I would tell a preacher. Find where the energy is, tap

James Book: Well, I'll tell you,

CJ Epperson: into it.

James Book: as a speaker, I was energized by being there. I was I got more out of that event than I gave. I'm telling you, it's phenomenal. All right. So Dave, we got

CJ Epperson: Well, that's that's how I that's how I feel every week here, just to be honest with you. Like this past Sunday, you come out of a conference and you're like, Well, this is gonna be a dud of a Sunday. No, like you got two kids that go to KCU, they came home to be baptized here instead of being baptized at their college because they love this church. You've got a guy who's been coming here for four or five months and every Sunday, and this is just the reality of it, he's crying and he's in a full on sweat every Sunday 'cause he's fighting off

Dave: .

CJ Epperson: the conviction that God's given him and finally he just says, You know what? I'm all in today. Like if that doesn't give you energy as a preacher, never mind. Don't get out of your church. Maybe get out of ministry. I don't know what to tell you. Like your pulse is dead.

James Book: absolutely. Dave, I think we gotta bring CJ back on a couple more times, man. He lit this program up, baby.

CJ Epperson: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Dave: I think we need a third co-host man. This is good. This is good

CJ Epperson: That was that might have been strong, but it is what's reality.

James Book: So Dave, I CJ, I I love it, baby. Dave, tell you close us out, man. I mean, you're you're the man of wisdom. You're the you're the man we look to, brother. Close us out. I mean, based on okay, we want to be a church on mission. Building's a tool, but tools can be used for honor God and further the kingdom. F close us out with some words of wisdom.

Dave: I think the greatest advice I ever had in preparing to become a preacher was from Aaron Chambers, Roger Chambers' son. preaches in Colorado now. And I said, what advice would you give me? He said, I don't have much. I'll just tell you all I know, love God and love people. And that has defined to the best of my ability everything I do in the ministry. You know, I wish we could infuse energy in people that are not energetic. I don't know, maybe Red Bull in the communion tray. I don't know.

James Book: Yeah.

Dave: But when people know that you love them and that you love the Lord, they're going to do anything. And when you love God, you're going to do everything you do with excellence.

James Book: Yeah.

Dave: And every day matters, not just Sunday, but every day matters. And when you love people, they're going to put up with a lot of bad preaching. a lot of bad mistakes, times that you let them down. But if love defines your ministry, if it defines

James Book: Yes.

Dave: your church, that's gonna redefine your congregation.

James Book: Yeah.

Dave: And that's all I've been going on for 20 years, is that I love God and I love people and I just wanna do my best to serve them both.

James Book: People pick up on that, don't they? People pick up on that. My

CJ Epperson: Yeah. Yeah.

James Book: dad used to say, Jim, if the people go to sleep, they got to wake the preacher up. I was like, okay, all right. Well, don't want that to happen. But

CJ Epperson: Yeah. Yeah.

James Book: man, love transcends everything. It's the core of our values. Dave, thank you. And I not just thank you, Dave, for your ministry here with this podcast, but thank you for being an example to preachers all over the country. Hey. God's still blessing his people and Millwood is an example. As Paul said in First Thessalonians, he goes, Look, you're an example to the church's Macedonia K. I need guys like CJ and Dave and others doing it right so the other church can go, it can be done. And so thank you both. CJ, I love watching God work in you, your family, your church. You're an inspiration to all of us, brother. And I'm just hoping and praying for even greater days ahead. Thanks, guys.