2 Corinthians 12 - Pastor Jonathan Shelley | Stedfast Baptist Church

Amen.

And then here in chapter 12,

we're continuing the monologue of the apostle Paul,

going down a idea of being very foolish

and very prideful and boasting in himself.

If you look back at chapter 11 verse one,

would to God you could bear with me a little in my folly.

Notice that he's giving this idea of like,

hey, I'm saying this something

that's not a wise thing to do.

You could look at verse number 16,

I say again, let no man think me a fool.

He says in verse 17 that he's speaking

as it were foolishly.

He says in verse 19 for you suffer fools gladly.

He says in verse 21, I speak foolishly.

So he just kind of like is hammering this idea

that what he's doing is not the right way

to talk about yourself.

He's definitely bragging on himself,

but he's doing it like many people

must be doing at his church to try and show,

hey, if we were to brag, I kind of got these guys beat.

But that's not the real way to brag.

We shouldn't be talking this way.

We shouldn't be trying to compare ourselves among ourselves

and we shouldn't try to be glorying in the flesh

and glorying in our accolades.

And so he's been going through this idea

of talking foolishly and it continues in chapter 12.

It says in verse one, it is not expedient

for me doubtless to glory.

So again, he's saying it's not a good idea

for me to constantly glory in myself

and to bring up and to talk about myself

and lift myself up.

That's not really what I should be doing,

but I'm here and so I'm gonna go ahead

and continue on this dialogue.

And so he says, let's talk about,

I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

So in the first section, he talks about his pedigree.

You know, if you look at chapter 11 again,

he says in verse number 22, are they Hebrew?

So am I.

So he kind of talks about like his pedigree,

like I'm of the children of Israel.

I'm a Hebrew.

Then he says, hey, you guys are tough.

How about what I've gone through?

I've gone through shipwreck and beatings and whippings

and just like all kinds of just crazy physical problems

that he's had to go through.

So that just shows that he's actually very tough

and he's very bold.

And then he goes into a second layer of like emotional depth

of how he has the care of all the churches upon him

and that, yeah, of course, when people are suffering,

he's suffering with them

and he's condescending a minimum of state

and to the weak, he's gonna be weak

and people that are stumbling

and definitely falling away from the faith,

it burns him up.

He gets upset about that.

He's frustrated to see people,

not follow Christ and not do the right things.

Then he's going to a new section.

How about just visions or revelations?

So he's like, hey, you wanna compare yourself?

Well, I meet all the qualifications physically

you could possibly dream of.

Not only that, I've done everything you can do physically.

I've done everything you can do emotionally.

And then on top of that,

I've had more visions and more revelations than anyone.

And let me just go ahead

and just talk about this for a moment.

Now, what's interesting in verse two

is he kind of shields this language here.

Now, I personally believe

and that's why I'm talking about it this way.

I personally believe he's still gonna talk about himself

but he does talk in like a third person.

He's just talking about like a different person.

It's possible to interpret this.

This is not the apostle Paul

but my interpretation is

that he's talking about himself in a third person

because he kind of feels the awkwardness

throughout this entire passage.

Of glorying in himself

and he doesn't really want to glory in himself.

So it's like him shielding this information

from just being directly about himself.

Even though when we kind of diagnose what he's saying

it seems kind of clear

that maybe he's talking about himself.

Okay, let's says in verse two

I knew a man in Christ above 14 years ago

whether in the body I cannot tell

or whether out of the body I cannot tell

God knoweth such in one cut up to the third heaven.

So again, he's saying,

hey I knew somebody that was caught up to the third heaven.

Notice the timeline 14 years ago.

You know, this is going back,

again I'm not gonna give an exact timeline here

but this is going back very close

to when would have been the beginning of his ministry.

Very likely before any of his missionary journeys

anything like that.

It seems unlikely that he knows anybody

that this could even apply to.

Because for the most part,

other than Barnabas the son of consolation

basically reaching out to him

he didn't really have like many connections.

People were afraid of him.

He's kind of a loner, innocent.

So again, just thinking about like the number of people

that he has exposure to for this to be a person

is pretty low.

And again, when we talk about the other apostles

he really has very little communication

if any with them specifically.

So you would think like if this was someone

that was gonna go up to the third heaven

and probably be an apostle,

probably one of the chief apostles.

Yet he doesn't really seem to have a relationship

with Peter or John or any of those people

at this particular time.

Also note it can't be John that we're talking about

from the book of Revelation because this is 14 years ago

and the epistle that's written

to the seven churches in Asia

from a timeline perspective

is way in the future.

So this isn't like a revelation.

He's not talking about John from the book of Revelation.

Also think about what he says here

whether in the body I cannot tell

or whether out of the body I cannot tell.

Well, if he was just told this by someone

why would it matter?

It kind of seems like he's kind of giving you a hint here

like I went through this experience

and I just can't really tell.

Like I don't know if I actually literally went there

or if I just kind of went there in my mind, right?

Like I don't even know, like whoever this was,

again, let's say it wasn't Paul, it doesn't matter.

The point is that sometimes a vision is so real,

so lifelike, you may not even know

like did I actually go there

or did I just experience it and it felt like I was there?

Okay, so this is like where he's saying a vision

or a revelation specifically.

Notice it's also described as being caught up.

So the Bible always describes heaven

as being up, you know, going this direction

and notice it also says the third heaven.

Now what does this third heaven mean?

You know, we're not Mormon,

so we don't believe in three heavens in heaven.

It's basically, you know, you can kind of see from the Bible

the Bible talks about heaven.

A God created the heaven and the earth, okay?

But then it also talks about

he separated the heavens from the heavens.

So it seems, you know, like the Bible's very clear,

the first heaven is what we call the sky.

The second heaven is what we call outer space.

And then the third heaven is what we would think of

as the supernatural realm upon which God presides.

Where God dwells and where, of course,

his angels are dwelling and where his throne is

and the saints that have passed on before us

that their souls are up there

awaiting their resurrection, okay?

So this would be known as the third heaven.

So he's saying, hey, I was caught up

to this third heaven somehow.

Interesting idea.

He says in verse three,

and I knew such a man whether in the body

or out of the body, I cannot tell.

God knoweth, again, just kind of an interesting detail.

He says how that he was caught up into paradise

and heard unspeakable words,

which is not lawful for a man dutter.

You know, again, it's kind of interesting

because like, well, how would he know

if he didn't actually go and experience that?

You know, it kind of seems like, again,

another indication that is most likely him

just because he has this intimate detail.

You know, words that cannot be uttered.

I don't even know what that means.

I'm not even gonna pretend like I know what that means.

There's a reason why I don't know what that means.

Paul didn't want us to know what it means, okay?

So, you know, there's some things

in the Bible that are described that we don't know.

That's okay.

You know, the Bible talks about in the book of Revelation

there's things that the seven thunder's uttered

and it's like, seal this up.

You know, if someone comes up to you like,

I know what the seven thunder's uttered.

Like they're lying to you, okay?

There's some things that we just don't know.

You know, we don't know what Jesus looks like.

That's okay.

Any painting and picture is not him

and it's not what he looks like.

And you know, ripping it up has no,

like I feel no shame or embarrassment.

I would feel no guilt by just ripping up

one of these icons from one of these churches

because it's not Jesus, okay?

Oh, I went up to heaven, I saw Jesus.

You know, think about this.

Apostle Paul is saying he knows someone.

I think it was him, but we know at least someone

went to the third heaven.

And you know what never happens?

He tells us what Jesus looked like.

He says, hey, I can't talk about my experience.

That's, that's, and so, you know,

think about this though.

Like if you went to heaven,

wouldn't kind of like the thing you'd want to do

is tell people about it?

Like you'd want to tell people about it.

And if you were going to like go to heaven

for a temporary period and come back,

like you could get a lot of recognition,

fame and whatever by telling people about it.

But by telling people like I went to heaven,

what happened?

I can't tell you anything about it.

Like it totally invalidates the whole point

of even glorying about it.

And if you really think about it,

you know, as you could write a book, you know,

there's how many people have gone to heaven

and wrote a book about it.

There was a pastor that I listened to a sermon

of his one time, he's in Florida.

I can't remember what his name is.

Maybe it'll come to me,

but the guy described how he went to heaven.

And he's like telling, he's like, he's right.

He said he was riding on Segway's.

Like everybody was riding on a Segway.

And I'm like, I wonder if that was Paul's experience,

you know, he said it looked like a shopping mall.

And I was like, this sounds like hell, you know,

I'm just like, I'm just kidding.

And he just talked about how he was seeing

all these people there and whatever.

And it's just like, you know, that's not what Paul does.

Paul, you know, here's a legitimate encounter.

Here's a legitimate source

saying someone really went to heaven.

And it's like, okay, what happened?

I can't tell you.

And again, the whole point,

like let's not lose the sight

of the whole context of this passage.

Is the context of this passage to glory?

Is the context to get attention?

Is the context to, you know, lift yourself up?

It's actually saying it's kind of foolish to say this.

It would be silly to do this.

I'm only saying this to give you an example

of what a fool would be like.

A fool would brag about going to heaven.

Someone that actually went to heaven

really wouldn't talk about it.

And wouldn't talk about the things that he saw

because it's not lawful, it's not even right,

it's not expedient.

This is not like what you should do.

So even if someone really went to heaven,

it wouldn't be to tell people about it.

Okay, so, you know, I think all of us

could maybe secretly think like,

it'd be nice to just take a peek

and just see what's going on up there

or just kind of have an idea

or to see, you know, who's there

and who's not there, you know?

Okay.

I think there's gonna be some disappointment

for some people, okay?

Maybe they'll be surprised.

I don't know, okay?

But I think that we could all have that desire.

And we all have that desire.

I mean, I think the biggest desire for most of us,

if we were to be honest, is just see Jesus, right?

See Jesus, see God, spend any kind of time

with him, talk with him or whatever.

Whatever Paul heard though,

he says it's not lawful for a man to utter.

He says in verse five, of such a one will I glory?

Yet of myself, I will not glory,

but mine infirmities.

Now, in verse five, he's saying,

hey, whoever went to heaven,

that's the person that I would glorify.

Like, if I was gonna brag about someone,

if I was gonna glory in someone,

I would glory about the guy that went to the third heaven.

Seems like a pretty safe source.

Seems like the guy that's pretty legit.

Seems like someone that's pretty close to God

and pretty close to the Lord

is someone that literally went to the third heaven

or I guess you could say, mentally went there.

I mean, he's saying he might've potentially gone there

in body, maybe it was just simply

an out of body experience or some kind of a vision

or he went there mentally,

but it's saying this is someone that's experienced heaven

in a way no one else has ever experienced.

You would think like, here's the guy

that I want to be my preacher.

The guy that literally went to heaven

or the guy that's experienced heaven or seen heaven.

Like, wouldn't you want that guy

to be reassuring you about heaven?

It's like, when we all get to heaven,

it's like, how do you know?

Well, I've been there.

I mean, wouldn't you want that guy

to be the guy comforting you,

that to be the guy that's instructing you,

that the guy that you're like leaning on.

You know, because of course you knock on a lot of doors

and some people will say like,

oh, well no one knows where they're gonna go when they die.

Well, the guy that was caught up to the third heaven knows.

You know, this guy's got a pretty big faith,

you know, a pretty big confidence.

You know, it'd be pretty great

to have that guy instructing you.

And think about it though,

it kinda makes sense if it was Paul for one reason.

Now Paul's had to endure a lot.

Paul's had to go through a lot.

Paul is pretty much rejected of a ton of people,

stoned to death, all kinds of crazy things

that are happening to him.

Having seen heaven might kinda help you

continue on that journey.

Might help you be a little steadfast

because you know what you're aiming for.

You know where your destination is.

You know what's going on

and just kinda helps you put things

in perspective a little bit.

Maybe he went to heaven when he was rocked to sleep.

You know, I don't know.

I mean, that could have been a reasonable timeline

of just he was getting stoned

so God just took him to heaven for a moment,

brought him back.

I still don't think that fits the timeline

because he said 14 years ago.

It almost seems like the 14 years ago

is prior to any of the missionary journeys,

any of the things that happened.

But again, you could argue,

hey, somebody went to heaven

and just told Paul about it

and we don't even know who the guy is.

I don't really think that that's what it's saying

and why.

Well, he says, yet of myself,

I will not glory but in mine infirmities.

So I think that you could see

what he's trying to say here is,

hey, I would glory in this guy

but I don't wanna glory about myself.

I don't wanna lift myself up.

I don't wanna give somebody opportunity

to think of me better than I really am.

So all I'm gonna do is

I'm gonna talk about my weaknesses.

He says in verse six,

for though I would desire to glory,

I shall not be a fool.

So he's saying, I kinda want to glory about this

or I kinda wanna glory

but I'm not gonna be a fool, okay?

Now, again, think about this.

It doesn't really make entirely sense to me.

Maybe you have a different perspective

but why he would say I really wanna glory

about someone else going to heaven

but I'm not gonna do that,

like he just did it in a sense, okay?

It makes sense that he's kind of cloaking

the third person

so that he can kinda make these statements of like,

I would kinda like to go around bragging

I went to the third heaven

but I'm just not gonna do it.

You know, I'm not gonna be that kind of a person.

Yet of myself I will not glory

but in my infirmities

for though I would desire to glory

I shall not be a fool

for I will say the truth

but now I forbear

lest any man should think of me above

that which he seeeth me to be

or that he heareth of me.

So again, if we think about the whole narrative, okay?

Paul's trying to say like,

hey, I don't wanna talk like a fool

but I'm gonna do it anyways.

So let me just give you an example of what it would be like

if I were to be one of these fools

and brag about myself.

Well, I'm a Hebrew,

I've endured the most persecution anybody's ever endured.

I've suffered the most emotional

and like mental turmoil

anybody could possibly experience

and then when it comes to visions and revelations

some random dude went to heaven, not about me.

That doesn't really fit, does it?

It kind of seems like it's escalating

in narrative of like,

hey, I'm a Hebrew,

I'm of the Israelites,

I've endured the greatest physical, you know,

torments and punishments imaginable

and I've continued going,

I've endured the most emotional, you know, trauma

and I have all this care for the churches

and I know a guy that went to heaven,

to the third heaven

and I don't really think it's right to brag

about that guy, I would like to

but I don't want to be a fool

and then he backs off.

You can kind of see why he kind of does it

that way potentially

but to me it just still makes most sense

to say that he's talking about himself.

I could be, you know, again,

I think there's a different way to interpret this

but that's just how I interpret it,

it makes the most sense

because notice again, he says,

but now I will forbear.

Like forbear, why is he forbearing

of glorying in himself

when he's talking about someone else?

I don't know.

It's definitely difficult,

it's difficult language,

it's a difficult thing to analyze.

Like is he just talking about some other random dude?

I don't know.

Let's just take the other example for a moment.

Okay, somebody else went to heaven.

Well, he's saying that guy is a guy

that we should be listening to.

Still not the guys in the church at Corinth

that are bragging about themselves

because they haven't gone to the third heaven.

They haven't endured what we've endured.

They don't have the same care for you that we do

and the most important point or element here is

that if we were gonna have a pissing match,

you guys are gonna lose.

I know plenty of guys that are better than you

and so let's not have that, let's not do that.

That's talking foolishly and you know as a church,

you shouldn't care about people

going around bragging about themselves.

You should actually want the guy that's boasting

in his infirmities is what the Bible's saying.

And again, what's the point of boasting

in infirmities?

It's talking about his weaknesses

and he's saying I couldn't do this

but then God was able to deliver me.

God is the one that came in and helped me

and so it's through his strength that I stand here.

It's through his might, it's through his power,

it's through his knowledge.

It's about giving glory to God at the end of the day.

That's the whole point.

So again, when we read the Bible stories

about David and Goliath,

it really wouldn't be the story

if the roles were reversed.

What if the story was there's this tiny little

young shepherd boy of the Philistines

that's coming out and mocking the Israelites

and this nine foot tall David comes out with a spear

and he just throws it from a hundred yards

right through this little boy's skull and crushes it.

You know, it's kind of a different story.

Then you're like, okay, I guess praise God

for the guy that's strong and big and buff, right?

Then it kind of like flips the story on its head.

Whereas if the story is like, hey, there's this giant

that, you know, it takes a grown man,

just like a full grown man just to carry his like shield,

you know, just like just a shield alone.

Just one guy struggling to carry this thing

and this giant is coming out to defy the armies of Israel

and everybody's afraid and everybody's a coward

and this little shepherd boy with no armor,

nothing just kills him with a slingshot.

It's like, oh wow, God really came in

and God really delivered him

and God really helped David

and we see the might and power of God working through David.

So we're not talking about David's strengths,

we're talking about David's weaknesses, aren't we?

He's young, he's small, he doesn't have armor on, okay?

So it's like the apostle Paul is saying,

hey, I'd rather talk about the things

that don't make me that great

and how God had to make up the hedge,

how God had to intercede,

how God had to help deliver me.

So then God gets the glory, right?

You know, again, our church specifically

has gone through trials and tribulations

and it's cooler stories when it's like,

hey, we did everything we could do

and it wasn't working out

and then just God opened a door

or God brought someone into our situation

or God helped deliver us

or God is dragging this person off to federal prison,

we didn't have to do anything.

You know, it's just like, it's cool to see God work

when we can't really deliver,

when we can't really help ourselves.

That's better to glory in that

than to glory in yourself,

to glory in what makes you so much stronger

than everybody else.

And again, verse six,

less than he made you think of me above that,

which he seeeth me to be or that he heareth of me.

You know, the apostle Paul has experienced this.

You know, the apostle Paul goes to certain parts

of the world and because he's able

to do the signs of an apostle,

like healing people, speaking languages

he's never studied before,

just different things like this.

Sometimes the town people will like think he's a God.

They'll say, oh, the gods have come down to us.

You know, Jupiter and Mercury, they've come down to us

and you know, Paul is this God

or something they'll worship him as a God.

It's like, well, that's wrong.

You know, we don't want to think of them

above that which is written and what's written?

They're an apostle, they're a servant of God.

That doesn't mean that they don't have

some level of status.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't think highly of them

but we shouldn't think that highly of them.

And again, he doesn't want to necessarily, you know,

if he did or if he was the person

that went to the third heaven,

he doesn't want people to then elevate him

above that which is written.

He's still just an apostle.

He still has a very lowly and humble view of himself.

Often when he talks to himself of being an apostle,

he describes himself as being the last of the apostles.

He says that he's chief of sinners.

He kind of uses what I would describe as hyperbole,

just exaggeration about himself at times.

And it's like, is he really worse than Judas Iscariot?

Is he really worse than Caiaphas?

Is he really worse than Olimus the sorcerer?

Like, I don't really think that that's, you know,

the accurate portrayal but what is he trying to do?

He's trying to be humble about himself.

He's trying to mind us, hey, I persecuted

the church of God.

Hey, I'm last of all the apostles.

Hey, I'm not worthy to be called an apostle.

He constantly is trying to help us realize

that even though he is an elevated person,

one of the greatest Christians,

he has a low view of himself

and he's not trying to elevate himself.

And so we too need to be careful

that we don't think too highly of ourselves.

If the apostle Paul can put himself in check,

then who are we to not put ourselves in check?

And to think humbly and lowly of ourselves

and to not brag about ourselves

and bring up all our accolades.

You know, I would say this, we shouldn't do it, right?

But Paul did it.

So how does that work?

Well, you know, the Bible says like

to answer not a full accordion is folly

and then it's like answer full accordion is folly.

It seems like sometimes and some occasions,

sometimes ministers will defend themselves

and when they defend themselves, it'll never sound right.

It'll never sound exactly the best type of speech

because in general we shouldn't be bragging

about ourselves or talking highly of ourselves

but sometimes you just defend yourself

because you kind of need to for the situation.

And you know what, the apostle Paul did

and sometimes a minister may do that.

And of course, if a minister ever says,

God forbid anything positive about himself,

there's plenty of haters to come around

and tear him down and try to act

like he's prideful and blah, blah, blah.

And again, this epistles no different.

If Paul lived in our day, they would sit there

and they would try to say Paul's prideful

and look out, Paul thinks how wonderful he is

and oh, Paul's bragging about him being himself

a Hebrew and we're not Hebrews

and Paul's bragging about how he can endure

all this persecution and Paul's bragging about

all the encounters he's had with God

but he's doing this out of love, out of charity.

He actually cares about the church.

He's trying to help them to be recovered from the fools.

He's not actually trying to be a fool.

He's trying to recover them from the fools.

Okay, so sometimes you're gonna have

to defend yourself and we shouldn't be

the ones throwing stones at a minister

defending himself on the rare occasion

he has to defend himself.

And the apostle Paul did it.

If I saw a pastor doing this,

I'm not gonna throw stones at him.

Now, if he's doing it every single week,

every single Sunday, if he's just bragging about himself

online every single day, well then it starts to be like,

okay, well, I don't think you're really acting

appropriately and again, that's not

the apostle Paul's position.

The apostle Paul's not someone going around bragging

about himself on a regular basis.

He's someone that's doing it in a limited capacity

and think about how many caveats he gave.

You know, that comforts me because I too

have occasionally talked about things

where I've given a lot of caveats.

There was a podcast where I gave caveats ad nauseam

and then what's funny is it doesn't matter.

You could give 50 caveats and the haters

just don't even care.

They just ignore it.

They don't even, it doesn't even matter.

But this is why it's funny to me.

It's like, you would think, well,

we're not doing it for them,

but you just, just as a preacher,

as a pastor, as a person, you sometimes

you just feel this like PTSD of the last time

they took you out of context.

So he's just like, I'm just gonna,

I'm just dropping lots of caveats, okay?

I don't really care, but I just,

I gotta drop much caveats, you know.

And again, why is he dropping the caveats?

He's kind of just dropping the caveats

to comfort the good people.

So the good people don't get persuaded

by the bad people's arguments.

Cause the bad people don't care about the caveats.

They'll lambast you, they'll attack you,

they'll assault you, they'll go after you

and say you're prideful and whatever.

It's just for the normal people to realize,

hey, this is not legit.

I was caveating.

I'm not saying this is the right way to speak

just so they can at least figure it out.

And I guess, you know, let's just be honest,

people are a little thick.

People are, you know, I guess they don't pay attention.

It's like, how about the seventh time

that I tell you that this was a stupid way to talk?

How about the eighth time?

How many caveats do I have to get before you get it?

Like this isn't what you do, okay?

He says in verse seven,

unless I should be exalted above measure

through the abundance of the revelations,

there was given to me a thorn in the flesh.

Now again, all the evidence that we've had so far,

I think kind of points towards Paul being the person.

As we get into verse seven,

I think it gets even clearer thinking about the context.

The context is, okay,

I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

Then verses two through six,

he describes a guy going to heaven, to the third heaven.

He never says anything in like the first person

about himself ever having a revelation or having a vision.

It seems a little weird to say,

hey, I wanna talk about visions and revelations.

I'm not gonna talk about anything I've ever experienced.

And then verse seven,

hey, this thing's gonna happen to me

because of the abundance of revelations and visions that I had.

It kind of makes more sense

that he was just talking about a revelation

or a vision he had.

Because then he's gonna explain why he's been punished

and or not punished, that's the wrong word probably,

I guess been afflicted as a result of these revelations.

He says in verse number seven,

unless I should be exalted above measure

through the abundance of the revelations,

there was given to me a thorn in the flesh,

the messenger of Satan to buffet me,

unless I should be exalted above measure.

Well, why is he so worried about being exalted above measure

if he's never had any revelations

or if he's never had any visions

or if there's nothing special to talk about?

I think, you could argue and think about it this way.

Think about this, let's say you went to the third heaven.

And the Bible talks about how the apostles

have seen the Lord Jesus Christ.

So the apostle Paul has seen

the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ.

He has spoken directly to Jesus.

He's spoken directly to God.

He's seen the third heaven.

Then afterwards at some point,

he gets totally afflicted by this thorn in the flesh

and we'll talk about whatever that is in a moment,

but just some horrible affliction.

He even asked God to take it away three times

and he says no, okay?

And the whole reason is why?

So that he will not be exalted above measure

so that people will not glory in him.

Doesn't that seem like maybe he would be hesitant then

to talk about the visions and revelations

that people might end up glorying in him?

Like think about it, it's like, hey,

God's like I'm gonna afflict you hard

because of what you just saw.

You'd be like, because I don't want people to like,

you know, think too highly of you.

You're gonna be real careful when to brag about that

because what's gonna happen next, you know?

Like you just got afflicted for it.

You probably don't wanna go around.

So then you can see like that makes even more sense

why if he talked about it, he kind of does this,

well, I knew a guy, you know, don't hit me,

you know, like don't strike me with lightning, you know?

I knew of a guy that went to the third heaven.

It's like, he's like, I don't wanna get, you know,

something else.

And again, I'm just trying to put this in perspective.

It kind of would make sense, right?

If you've been afflicted for abundance of revelations

that you might be even extra cautious

talking about them.

And isn't he pretty cautious?

Hey, I knew somebody that went there.

I don't even know if he went in body or not.

He saw things that I can't tell you

and he heard things that I can't say,

but it happened, all right?

Trust me, bro, okay?

Like, and I just don't wanna get afflicted again, right?

Again, I'm obviously, I'm reading between the lines

a little bit here.

But I'm just trying to help us understand,

you know, potentially what's happening here.

But for sure, even if, even if I'm wrong,

even if it was some other random dude,

Paul definitely had a lot of visions.

Paul had a lot of revelations.

And so he was given this thorn in the flesh.

Now, what is this thorn in the flesh?

Obviously, on some level, it's a phrase.

It's a metaphor, okay?

Because no one believes he has a literal thorn

in his literal flesh.

But the question I think for most people

is this, is this a physical torment

or is this something else, okay?

And I'm not gonna say I know.

I think it could be either.

When you think about a physical torment,

you know, it's saying the messenger of Satan

to buffet me, there's some kind of a satanic element here,

which seems odd just because typically

when we think of a saved person,

like you can't be demon possessed.

And I believe that.

But the Bible does, you know,

talk about like King Saul being tormented

by an evil spirit from the Lord.

So, you know, perhaps there was some kind

of a evil spirit tormenting, you know,

the apostle Paul in some physical way.

I don't know.

You have Job's obviously physically tormented

with boils all over his body from Satan.

So, is he saying like one of Satan's ministers

came to Paul and that minister caused

some kind of a physical issue towards the apostle Paul?

I don't know, that's an interpretation.

I think another interpretation could be,

if we want to stretch this,

maybe it's just like some person

that's following him around harassing him.

And he kind of have in, I believe it,

what is it, Acts chapter 16,

Acts 16 · chapter mention

you have this damsel that's like following him around

saying, these be the servants of the Most High God.

And they're just kind of like,

they're just kind of tormented

because this person just won't leave him alone.

And so maybe there's a demonic spirit

that is possessing someone

and the person that they're possessing,

it just will not leave them alone.

It's just tormenting them and afflicting him

and the apostle Paul is just like,

can I get this guy off my case?

Can I get this guy to stop leaving me around?

I think a lot of people lean into the physical element.

I've heard like how people say,

he had a problem with his vision or something.

I don't know.

It doesn't really matter,

but at the end of the day,

we see that sometimes God's will

is not for you to have your best life now.

Okay, now for a lot of people,

they don't wanna believe

that this even could be a physical ailment

because they have kind of this health

and wellness gospel

where they think that God will heal

every sickness and every disease at all times.

And that in the New Testament,

there's no such thing as sickness and health.

It's kind of usually coming from these prosperity preachers,

a Benny Hinn type of a crowd.

They'll have these healing revivals

where they'll bring people up on stage

and they'll slap them healthy.

I don't even know how to make sense,

but they'll have people that were supposedly

in a wheelchair and then they get out of the wheelchair

or something like that.

And you say, is that real?

Well, just think about it.

If you had that ability,

couldn't you just go in and empty a hospital?

And look, as soon as Jesus came into a town,

they're literally pulling out the tiles of the ceiling,

trying to get people in there.

You have a woman that's just beating through the crowd

just to touch the hem of his garment.

I mean, if you have the ability

that you just touch this guy

and you're perfectly healed of all of your issues,

like you couldn't conceal that if you wanted to.

Okay, it's not like this is just,

there's this secret miracle worker,

there's this secret healer over here

that just can just bam.

You know, there's all these videos on YouTube.

It's like, it's weird.

It's like, they're like, oh, my arms are different sizes.

You know, and then they'll like slap it

and they'll be like, oh, like this, okay.

And they're like, oh, I'm healed.

You know, and it's just like,

but again, you're like, how do you know it's fake?

Because that same person has a false gospel

when you listen to them.

Oh, God revealed unto you how to heal people physically,

but you don't have the right gospel?

Like, what does a man profited though his arm

matches his other arm length,

yet he dies and goes to hell?

You know, you'd be better off losing your right hand

or losing your right eye

and not being cast into hellfire

than having both and being tormented

in the lake of fire for all of eternity

where their worm dieth not

and the fire is not quenched.

Okay, now does that mean am I gonna go so far now

and to say that God doesn't heal?

Well, of course not.

We see healing from Genesis Revelation.

We see people being healed,

but what we don't see,

it's kind of limited to one particular timeline

is Jesus and the signs of the apostle

where they can just lay hands on people

and they recover in those instances.

And it just seems like it's a special moment in time

to, number one, confirm Christ as the Messiah.

And then secondly, to affirm the message of the apostles

that are going out preaching the gospel of the Messiah.

Apart from that, we don't really see that happening.

Historically, we have no evidence or proof of this.

The Christians beyond the first entry,

we don't have some historical record or testimony

of them just constantly walking through every town

and healing everybody and doing these great miracles.

We don't really see that, it doesn't happen.

So, you know, this is what people would label me

as a cessationist, you know, to cease.

If you think about like to cease and desist

is like to stop doing something.

A cessationist is someone that believes

that the apostolic signs ceased with the apostles.

And I would say guilty is charged.

You know, I don't really have a problem with that.

Now, does that mean that God couldn't do anything

that he wants whenever he wants?

Of course he can, he's God.

And let's just be honest, in the book of Revelation,

seems like there's a lot of miracles happening.

A lot of stuff's happening.

So, is it possible that God could do different,

you know, miracles and whatever in the future?

Absolutely, okay.

So, I'm not a miracle denier.

I don't believe that God doesn't heal.

You know what, why would the Bible tell us

that if someone was sick,

unto death, to have the elders of the church

to come and anoint them with oil and to pray over them,

if we just need the one guy to slap him healthy?

You know, like, that isn't even consistent

in the whole New Testament dialogue.

You know, it seems like, hey,

and why is the Bible talking about praying for people

to be recovered of health issues?

And why is it bringing this up?

Of course it's because we should do that.

And look, I don't know exactly how that works.

I don't know exactly how God deems

which, you know, healings to do

and which healings to not do.

But this is what I do know, everybody's gonna die.

So, no one's gonna make it to the end

and just keep going, like the energizer bunny.

So, you know, at some point we're all gonna die, okay?

And obviously that's somewhat health related.

So, you know, unfortunately we don't know

when we're gonna get, I don't know,

but hey, as long as someone's still kicking,

we might as well pray for him, right?

We might as well ask God and petition him.

And, you know, you have some people

that get their health extended.

What is it, isn't it Hezekiah?

I think he gets his life extended

by 15 years specifically.

So, you can have things like that,

but notice he said, hey, 15 years.

He didn't say, like, hey, let's just keep going

and going and going and going and going.

You know, 15 years more is what you got.

So, hey, we should pray for people

and we should hope for the best,

but there's no guarantee

and I'm not gonna slap you healthy, okay?

I'm not even gonna slap you, but, you know,

that's just kind of silly.

But, hey, is it possible that God allowed

the apostle Paul to suffer physically?

Yeah, it's called Job.

What did Job ever do?

And of course, that's the Achilles heel

to all these prosperity preachers doctrine anyways is Job.

It's like, how do they answer Job?

They never really can.

And so, of course, God could want you to be sick

for whatever his reason is

or whatever his purposes are to knock you down a notch.

I mean, hey, the apostle Paul has knocked down a notch

and whatever context this is and why?

So he shouldn't be exalted above measure.

He says in verse eight,

for this thing I besought the Lord thrice

that it might depart from me

and he said unto me, my grace is sufficient for thee.

For my strength is made perfect in weakness.

Most glad that therefore,

while I rather glory in my infirmities

that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

He's saying, look, God's not gonna answer this prayer.

He said his grace is sufficient for me.

And so, hey, I'm weak,

but God is gonna still allow me to accomplish

what I need to accomplish through his grace

and through his power and through his might.

So therefore, I'm gonna just glory in my infirmities

so that what?

So that God gets the glory.

Hey, I can't do this.

So God's gonna have to step up.

I can't accomplish this.

So God's gonna have to intervene

and then God gets the glory when he does.

If God just made us all super humans,

a bunch of Hercules,

well then a lot of the glory is gonna be given to us.

So God continues to use people that are weak.

God continues to put his people in calamities

that only he can deliver

so that he can constantly get the glory

so that he can constantly get the praise.

He says in verse number 11,

I am become a fool in glory.

You have compelled me.

For I ought to have been commended of you.

For in nothing am I behind the very chief as apostles

though I be nothing.

Notice verse 11.

This is a very important verse, okay?

He's saying, all right, I had to look prideful.

I had to look like a fool.

I had to say all this stuff about myself.

Why?

Because you guys wouldn't say it.

So you know what?

Many times a preacher defends himself

because other people won't defend him.

And that's frustrating.

It's frustrating.

He's saying, hey, you guys made me do this

because you guys aren't the ones bragging on me.

You aren't the guys ones lifting me up

and talking about me and talking about who I am.

Because for I have ought to have been commended of you.

Like why you guys are tearing me down

you should have been commending me.

But now you've made me, now you've compelled me.

Okay, you wanna talk about who's the greatest apostle?

Well, let's just talk about what I've done

and let's compare it to all these fake imposters

in your church.

And then it's pretty obvious.

And hey, you made me say this stupid stuff

and you made me kind of go down this bad path,

this pride, what seems like a prideful path

because you guys just wouldn't step up.

You guys wouldn't basically glorify your preacher,

your pastor, your apostle, whoever.

You wouldn't give them the recognition.

And again, we shouldn't exalt them above that

which is written.

But can we exalt them to what that is written?

It's like, hey, we're not gonna make you a God.

We're not gonna call you Jupiter.

We're not gonna call you Hercules.

But you know what we'll call you?

The apostle Paul.

We'll call you an apostle.

And you know what we're not gonna do?

We're not gonna take your title of apostle

and give it to fakes and frauds and imposters

and make them seem like they're on par with

and equal to you.

Because that's another way to tear him down

is by putting him on the same level as everybody else.

No, he's an apostle.

We're not gonna be people like Greg Locke

who called themselves an apostle

and his secretary an apostle

tearing down the office of what an apostle actually is.

It's like, hey Greg Locke, did you see Jesus Christ?

Hey Greg Locke, are you doing things not for money?

Hey Greg Locke, did you run off with the secretary?

I mean like, how are you an apostle?

Did you see the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ?

No, you're a fake, you're a fraud, you're a phony.

You're one of the worst scum.

And he's just, he's being destroyed right now

and praise God for that.

His ministry is being destroyed.

He's crying about it.

He's trying to take back every ordination he's ever done.

And then the guy is just a sinking ship.

But you know what?

He's giving a bad name to what an apostle is

by having to claim that title.

You know, and again, we have a lot of the Pentecostals.

They'll just hand out apostle titles.

They'll hand out apostle titles to someone

that's 18 years old, to some 19 year old kid off the street.

Now he's an apostle.

They just have all these, you know,

and again, that's not what we should do.

We should reserve these titles for men like Paul

and we should exalt them above their counterparts

and say, hey, we should listen to the apostle Paul

and we should put him in his place.

And you know, if we would just,

if we would take care of business,

then he doesn't have to take care of business.

So you know, oh, well, this,

this guy is constantly having to defend himself.

Well, why is he having to defend himself?

Why isn't somebody else sticking up for him, you know?

And that's why it always makes me upset sometimes

when I see someone being piled on

or someone being, you know, trashed.

But a lot of times I want to get in there

and I want to, you know, defend that person

and I want to get in there and kind of,

hey, come alongside that individual

and you know, not allow them

to just fight this battle alone

and just have to always defend themselves

and always just praise themselves.

And then of course you do that

and they're just like, ah, you just,

you just, you're just a suck up.

Oh, you're just carrying water for this person.

Ah, you just, you just,

you just want to love this person.

It's just like, sure.

You know what?

I'd rather carry water for Paul

than be one of your bozos anyways, you know?

Oh, you mean like Elisha

who poured water on the hands of Elijah?

Ah, he's just a water carrier.

Yeah, that was his job.

And then he ends up being

one of the greatest prophets in the Bible.

You know, what's wrong with pouring water

on the hands of Elijah?

What's wrong with being the guy

carrying water around for the prophet?

You know, what's wrong with liking the apostle Paul?

You know, what's wrong not liking the apostle Paul?

You know, it's wrong not defending the apostle Paul.

You know, it's wrong not commending the apostle Paul.

You know, it's wrong not commending the men of God

that in your life, that have ministered to you,

that have gotten you saved, that have taught you the Bible,

that have been there with you when you were down,

that have loved on you.

You know what, it's wrong not to commend those people.

You know what, it's so frustrating

because pastors will just love on people

and they'll be there when you call in the middle of the night

and they'll be there with you

when you have to go to the hospital

and they'll marry you for free

and they'll bury you for free

and they'll do all this stuff.

And then as soon as you don't like something they said

in the sermon, you just trash them, ghost them.

They never see you again.

You just go online and you just say

whatever you want about them, no recourse.

It's just an evil, wicked thing to do.

I mean, how would you feel if it's Wednesday night,

7 p.m., the announcement's,

the song leader just goes to sit down

and just no one walks up?

And you just know, it's just like,

oh, where's Pastor Paul?

So let's text him.

No response.

No sermon.

It's like, are we still having a conference?

Are we still having Wednesday night service?

Is Pastor Shelley alive?

Did the Jews get him?

Like, you know, what's going on?

Right?

Wouldn't it be awkward?

Wouldn't it be weird if I just left

and you never saw me again

and I never responded to a text message or a phone call

and I was just like, disappeared?

Oh yeah, that's like virtually

everyone that leaves our church to me.

Isn't that cool?

It's just so fun.

It's just so fun to just disappear.

You know, it's just like, what the heck?

But you know, that's just the ministry sometimes.

You know, it's just like, okay, bye, I guess.

I mean, the people, they've left a month ago.

I didn't even know they've left yet, you know.

I don't know if you just missed a church service

or if you didn't or where you're at,

or you know, it's just like, it's frustrating.

And you know, it's just, hey, the apostle Paul,

he's saying like, hey, you guys made me do this.

You guys made me say this kind of stuff

because I oughta been commited of you.

Notice, for nothing am I behind

the very cheapest apostles, though I'd be nothing.

He's like, hey, you want me to be honest?

I'm pretty much the best.

There's not a chief or apostle.

There's not some guy like, oh man,

I wish we had gotten this, I wish we'd gotten Andrew,

you know, Bartholomew, man.

Why don't we get Bartholomew?

He's like, bro, you got Paul.

I'm not behind the cheapest of apostles.

You're not getting second best meals here.

You're not getting leftovers.

You're not just getting some,

you know, you're getting the apostle Paul here

and you guys can't even commit him.

You know, that also helps me.

If they didn't say anything positive about apostle Paul,

why would they say anything positive about me?

You know what I mean?

It's just like, I'm not even close to him.

I don't even, I'm not even on the same planet as this guy.

So if they didn't praise him, well,

why would they praise me?

And it's like the same.

It's like, where are the nine?

Nine people didn't even come back

to just thank God himself, God manifests in the flesh.

The Lord Jesus Christ from being healed

from one of the most afflicted, you know,

physical ailments you could possibly have.

I mean, you're suffering the most physical problems

you could ever have in the worst way

and God himself heals you

and you can't even say thank you.

I feel better about myself now that no one cares, okay?

But you know what?

Just because there are people that don't care

and are not thankful and are inconsiderate

and are jerks and are selfish

doesn't mean you should be that way.

Just because Jesus will still keep going,

just because Paul will keep going,

just because your pastor will keep going

doesn't mean you shouldn't say thank you.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't commend them.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't defend them.

Doesn't mean you should be thankful, you should.

But notice his attitude is gonna keep going here.

He says in verse number 12,

truly the signs of an impossible rot among you

and all patience and signs and wonders and mighty deeds.

For what is it wearing?

You were inferior to other churches

except to be that I myself was not burdensome to you.

Forgive me this wrong.

Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you

and I will not be burdensome to you

for I seek not yours but you

for the children not to lay up for the parents

but the parents for the children.

And I will very gladly be spend and be spent for you.

Though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved.

What a weird thing that happens

that sometimes you can love someone

and it's like they dislike you more.

Now, I wanna be careful with this passage

because I do not believe that this is saying

that every time you love someone,

they will love you less back.

I don't believe that

and that's not what the Bible teaches.

Obviously, the Bible says we love him

because he first loved us.

So the whole reason why we even love God back

is because he loved us first.

And so in many cases

and in a rightful idealic situation,

the more you love,

ideally that person will love you even more, okay?

But it's just not the majority experience.

That's the point.

It's not that there won't be people

that will love you back and reciprocate and appreciate it.

It's just that the majority won't.

Think about God.

God couldn't have loved the world more than he could

by sending his son to die on the cross for all their sins

and yet 95% of our population doesn't even give a rip.

And in fact, it almost seems like they hate God

the more they hear about it

and the more they hear about God

and the things of God and the gospel,

the more they hate him even more.

They mashed on their teeth

and they wanted to crucify him.

The more he loved, the more he healed people

and the more he raised people from the dead

and the more he did good.

It's just the more the Pharisees wanted to kill him

and slay him and whatever.

But I think that putting the bad people aside,

you could see what it's possibly describing as well

is that familiarity breeds contempt

and that in some cases,

even though someone's doing great things for you,

you start to take them as just for granted

and you don't appreciate what you're even being given.

Especially children, that's one of the things

that's being brought up here,

that you'd spend for your children and be spent

and not having to reciprocate it.

But for a child, they don't necessarily know any different.

They're living in the house with their parents,

whatever their parents give them.

Like I was very spoiled as a young kid.

My parents would give us like just elaborate Christmases.

They would just like just over the top

and just like 20 presents, 25 presents,

just something insane, okay?

And just like, I didn't know anything else.

So then like when I would see my friends or other people,

like their parents might get them one or two gifts

or something like that for Christmas.

And I remember like privately thinking like,

oh man, their parents must not love them or something.

That's kind of what I thought initially

when I first thought about this.

And then I was like,

but then I was realizing like those kids

loved those one or two presents more

than I loved any of my 20 presents or whatever

because I didn't even really give a rip.

And it's like if they had gotten 20 presents,

they would have been really excited.

If I had gotten one, I would have been really sad.

And it's just kind of weird

because it's like you just started getting used to things.

And I've seen people in my life

that they were used to getting a certain Christmas present,

like a very extravagant gift.

And then one year they got a like a little bit less

extravagant gift, still more extravagant

than virtually anybody on this planet is getting

for Christmas.

And they were mad, they were steaming mad about it.

I mean, just think about if I handed you

a $2,500 check for Christmas.

Don't you think most of you would be like,

that was pretty awesome.

But think about it, this person's expecting

like twice or three times that amount in their mind.

So when they get it, they're mad about it or something.

And it's like that somehow it's weird.

It's like I'm, this person's loving them more

than virtually anybody's getting loved.

And yet they're like mad and they hate it or whatever.

And you know, we can just get these attitudes

where we don't even appreciate what we have

and we start getting mad at what we even have.

And let me give you some really clear examples, okay?

How about this, how about people that get mad

at a church like ours, a new IB church,

when there's literally thousands of people in this world

that have no good church to go to.

They don't like some little tiny microscopic tiny issue

and they get mad about that when there's people

that live in Ethiopia and Korea and China or whatever

and it's just because they become accustomed

to what they have and they don't even realize what they have.

They don't even realize what kind of preaching they get,

what kind of fellowship they get,

what kind of events they're getting,

what kind of mission trip opportunities they have.

And so they just sit here and they just get mad

because they just want to get mad about stuff.

And it's like you could sit here and give them the moon.

It's like, hey, here's our bulletin of events

and they're just like, well, do you have anything for me?

When's the next event?

I mean, isn't we gonna do a conference in November now?

You know, it's like, what about this mission trip?

It's like, sometimes you can't even give people enough.

It's like, here's a soul-winning marathon,

here's water, here's free food, here's everything.

Where's the juice for my kid?

It's at the store, you know, I don't know.

I'm just telling you, it's like sometimes it's like,

you could just be giving them so much more

than anybody else is giving them

and yet they don't even like you.

They get mad at you.

Sometimes loaning money to people will cause them to hate you.

Just doing good, no good, D goes unpunished.

Now look, sometimes you'll give something

to somebody and they'll love you for it, okay?

I'm not saying that everybody's like this,

but you know what, don't be that person,

be the person that actually appreciates

what's been given to you.

And how much more could it be?

What God is constantly giving to us and loving us

and then we don't appreciate it.

We're not thankful for what God's giving us.

Like, oh, God's giving us, you know,

a church so we can go through three times a week

and then they're mad about it.

You're mad at God for that.

You're mad at God for giving you a Bible

you can actually read.

You know, there's people that used to,

they wanted to die to give us this book

and there's some people that feel like

they're dying inside because they have to read it, right?

I mean, it's just, it's weird,

but you know, it's just the flesh.

It's just human nature.

It's just the default reaction.

It's just we all kind of just, you know,

you get into the hot tub at first and it feels hot

and then eventually you're like,

man, I wish they crank up the temp on this thing.

That's the thing I don't like about hot tubs.

I don't know, who else experiences this?

You know, it's like the first five minutes is awesome

and then it's just now it's just lukewarm water to me

and I'm just like, that's why like, you know,

this is my trick in the shower is I try to do like

the coldest that I can like at first

so I can keep bumping throughout the shower, you know?

Because if I just start at the hottest that I can tolerate,

well, I'll get used to that too quick

and then it won't be a hot shower anymore.

So it's like, if you kind of start, you know, cooler,

you can kind of keep working your way up

and you know, praise God,

I have a tankless water heater, best invention.

I mean, I'm just telling you,

this tankless water heater is amazing.

So you have endless hot water, all right?

And it's amazing.

When you have seven kids,

you want a tankless hot water heater, okay?

Otherwise you'd never take a hot shower ever again.

So it's like, you got a tankless,

I mean, hey, you can sit there and crank it.

I remember when they were putting it in,

they were like, what temp do you want this thing at?

And it was like, you know,

it was recommended like 125 and I'm like, no, higher,

you know, 130, 140, it's like,

they're like, this is recommended above,

like this is above the safety guideline,

I'm like, 140, do it, you know, just give it to me.

Like, I want it, you know.

But hey, I mean, sometimes you have to realize like,

human nature just gets used to whatever it's experiencing.

Hey, you're dying, you're just dying to have meat.

And then God gives you that meat

and now you don't even, now you loathe it.

Now you want cucumbers, you know,

and now you want garlic or whatever.

It's like, you can just,

we can just get so comfortable with what we have.

We can have people just loving us

and we don't appreciate it.

You can have a mom or a dad that's loving you greatly

and you're just not appreciating it.

Hey, you can have people in your life

that are doing good for you.

And you know, sometimes it's just frustrating.

You can have something that your spouse is doing for you

that's not expected, but then it just becomes expected.

And now, even if that thing

that's not even supposed to happen,

they don't do it perfectly, you get mad at them.

And it's like, who's really at fault here?

You know, who's at fault?

The person that gave you the check that you weren't,

you know, that you don't deserve,

but it was less than you were expecting,

is it really right for you to get mad at that person?

Yet it's human nature, it happens to all of us.

And hey, he's trying to tell this church,

hey, I'm willing to spend,

I'm willing to be spent on you,

I'm seeking you guys, I don't even wanna paycheck.

I even think personally, in verse 13,

he's probably being sarcastic.

Now you could read it two different ways.

I think he's being sarcastic,

that he's trying to say like,

for what is it where you're inferior to other churches?

He's like, what have you guys not got?

Yeah.

And he's like, I guess, oh, forgive me

that I didn't charge you money.

Oh, forgive me that the only thing I didn't do

was have you pay me money, right?

Is that the only wrong you got?

Is that the only way you can accuse me?

Is that really the only thing

that's your hold held back from?

Well, please forgive me for that.

Maybe he's not being sarcastic.

I think he is, okay.

You can believe whatever you want.

Maybe he's just like, I'm so sorry I didn't let you pay me.

You know, maybe he's sincere, I don't know.

I kinda think from the whole, you know,

pistol, there's a lot of motion,

there's a lot of passion.

He's probably be like, how can you be mad at me

when the only thing you have against me

is I didn't get paid?

What?

He's like, well, I'll continue to not be burdensome to you

because you know what?

I'm not seeking your money.

I'm seeking you.

I'd rather spend and be spent.

I'm not here for the money.

I'm here for you guys.

And you know what?

That should be a good attitude for parents too.

That, hey, I'm not seeing what my children gonna give me.

I'm investing in my children.

I'm investing in my kids

and I'm investing in their future.

It's not about me.

It's not about what I get out of it.

Hey, if you wanna go into the ministry,

please never go because you wanna get something out of it.

It's to spend and to be spent.

That's the reality.

He says in verse 16,

but be it so, I did not burden you.

Nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.

He's like, hey, you guys are being deceitful here.

Did I make a gain of you

by any of them whom I sinned on you?

I desired Titus and with him I sinned a brother

did Titus make a gain of you?

Walked we not in the same spirit?

Walked we not in the same steps?

Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you?

We speak before God and Christ,

but we do all things dearly beloved for your edify.

He's saying, hey, I didn't take some paycheck.

I'm not taking a bunch of money from you guys.

Titus didn't come to collect money for me.

Titus isn't sitting here trying to exact money

from you guys.

We're not doing this kind of stuff for you.

You know what?

We're here to build you up.

And the whole reason why we're taking this collection

is for the poor saints in Jerusalem.

It's not for me.

It's not for Titus.

It's not for selfish gain.

You know what it is?

It's for the ministry of the Lord.

And again, that's the bigger view

of what we've been reading in 2 Corinthians

is he makes a big deal about sending the people

to help them prepare this gift,

sending Titus beforehand to prepare this gift

so that they will be ready.

But you can see like, there's somebody in there

that's saying like, oh no, no, we shouldn't be giving,

we shouldn't raise up this money.

It's for Paul, you know, or Paul has bad motives

or Paul's whatever.

And he's like, you know, no, I'm sending Titus down there

to get you guys ready to have the right attitude,

the right spirit that you're raising this money

for the poor saints in Jerusalem.

It's not about me.

I don't want money.

I'm not into money.

It's not the reason why I'm raising the funds.

You know, I'm not taking 50% off the top.

Okay?

And he doesn't want the naysayers to get in there

and discourage the saints from giving the money

that they promised and they pledged to give

to the poor saints in Jerusalem

because of lies about Paul

or lies about their ministry or whatever's going on.

So he's been defending himself.

He's making it clear.

I'm sending these guys to prepare you guys

and I want you to be ready.

And when I show up, I want us to have a good time

and be on the same page and we're here for the Lord.

That's the whole point.

He says,

For I fear lest when I come,

I shall not find you such as I would

and that I shall be found unto you such as you would not.

Lest there be debates, envies, rast rites,

backbidings, whisperings, swellings, tumults

and lest when I come again, my God will humble me among you

and that I shall be well many

which have sinned already

and have not repented of the uncleanness

and fornication and lasciviousness

which they have committed.

So he's saying, look,

I don't want to show up and find you guys not right.

In what ways?

Well, specifically,

he doesn't want all the fornication and uncleanness

to have gone unaddressed.

He wants that to be fixed.

Additionally, he wants Titus to help them prepare this gift

that they're gonna be giving to the poor saints in Jerusalem.

And he wants them to have the right attitude

and stop listening to these bozos

and these fools that are glorying in themselves.

And he wants, when he shows up,

for them to have a good time, be on the same page,

they've got the money ready,

they're gonna have good spirits,

good fellowship, good preaching,

and they're thinking about the things of Christ.

Notice that whenever there's problems

that has nothing to do with Christ,

it has everything to do with us.

Debates, envy, wrath, strife, backbidings,

whispering, swellings, tumults.

You can kind of tell the spiritual condition of a church

based on these factors.

If a church is constantly debating with itself

and constantly factions,

because if you think about a debate,

you kind of have one side,

well, we are thinking this

and this other side is kind of thinking that.

Envy, people are really, if we diagnosed it

and we knew what's going on,

it's really just they're envious of each other,

envious of position, envious of status,

envious of money, envious of whatever.

People are actually, what is wrath?

You just want to see people,

something bad happen to someone.

That's a bad attitude.

You're like, well, I just kind of hope

an anvil falls in that guy's head.

I just kind of hope that this guy,

something bad happens to him.

That's the wrath, right?

Strife, just obviously conflict, backbidings.

What is this?

Will you talk about someone behind their back?

Just don't do it.

And you're not being spiritual,

you're not helping the cause of Christ,

you're not helping anyone.

It's a bad attitude.

Whispering's pretty much the same thing.

I mean, really, if you think about it,

whispering and backbiting is pretty similar.

You tell it behind their back so they don't hear,

you're whispering so they don't hear.

And whispering doesn't fix anything.

Whispering doesn't create friends,

causes people to be suspicious of things

and be weirded out and it's just frustrating.

Swelling's too much, just problems,

just issues in the church.

We should be on the same team, folks.

We've been through a lot as a church.

We've probably all been through a lot as Christians.

We already have family members that lie about us.

We already have friends that falsely accuse us.

We already gave up lots of different things

to be here and to serve Christ.

We've already invested a lot of time going soul-winning

and reading our Bible and learning good doctrine.

Like the last thing we wanna do

is allow the little things to build up

into some major thing.

And you know what, Apostle Paul's like,

man, I just don't want this to happen.

You know what, I don't wanna happen.

Our church is good.

Our church is in a great spot.

We're getting a lot of people saved.

You have a lot of great missions trips.

We don't even, the outside forces

have been drawn away for a season.

I mean, we really, when's the last time

we've had a protester?

You know, I haven't lost a bank account in like a year or two.

I mean, I don't even know.

I mean like, hey, I mean, we have liberty

and we're getting people saved.

You know, so what is the devil gonna try and do?

Well, the only thing they can really do

is just cause internal conflict.

And our flesh is saying yes.

Our flesh is saying that he wants to do that.

But you know what, we have to walk in the spirit

and crucify the lust of the flesh.

We have to try our best to not allow those things to happen

and not get envious of each other,

to not be mad at each other,

not be hateful towards one each other,

not be jockeying for a position,

not causing issue, being tender, kind, loving, affectionate,

thinking positive of each other, praying for each other,

seeking not your own wealth, but another's wealth.

I mean, this is the type of attitude

that we should try our best to have.

Are we gonna be perfect?

No, is there always gonna be drama?

Sure, but you know what?

It's frustrating and we should realize what it is

and it's not spiritual.

And if it happened to them, it can happen to us.

If it can happen to anyone, it can happen in the Bible,

it can happen to us.

And of course, when there's sin in the church,

we have to deal with it.

Because notice all the problems they have

and he's like, you gotta get rid of the fornication.

It seems like a little leaven

and leavens in the whole lump doesn't happen.

When you let fornication go unchecked in church,

what else are you gonna let go?

And so that's the problem.

When you allow bigger sins to go unchecked,

well then everybody's like, well,

if the pastor isn't gonna deal with that issue,

why the heck would he deal with other issues?

You know?

And it's just like, oh, well,

you can't go to one of these new happy churches,

they'll crack down on you for all kinds of stuff.

Well, you know what?

Praise God.

And it is a praise to God because I'll just be honest

I don't wanna do it at all.

Like I am the type of person that doesn't give a rip.

Like I don't wanna deal with nothing.

I'm just like, well, that's their fault

and that's their problem and whatever.

Like I have to drag myself into the fight, you know?

And when I get drugged in, it's ugly

because I don't wanna deal with,

I don't even wanna be there, you know what I mean?

So you might as well just, you know,

just don't even get there.

Just we need to try and have a loving,

kind attitude to each other.

And I think, I empathize with Paul a little bit.

He's just like, hey, don't drag me down there

and have me open a can, you know?

Let's have a good time.

Let's, I'm writing this letter so I don't have to.

And you know, it's like, hey, Pastor Shelley,

what's going on in the church preaching the sermon?

I don't know, but you know,

I'm preaching this like he is preventative.

I'm like, I don't even wanna have to go there.

I don't wanna have to have that meeting.

I don't wanna have that, you know, announcement to the church.

I don't wanna have to have that counseling session.

I don't wanna have to have that mediation.

I don't wanna have to go down those roads.

So, you know, maybe sermons like this

are a help to, you know, maintenance.

And hey, you're the core of the church.

You're on Wednesday night.

If you see people that are not in the core of the church,

not acting right, well, you do your best

to just take it and try to help

and try to encourage and try to do what's right.

You know, the Sunday morning onlys, you know,

they may not have the same spiritual attitude.

Well, then you have to have a spiritual attitude

for them, you know what I mean?

We have to condescend a minute of low estate.

We have to help the weaker brother.

We have to be the bigger person as it were.

We have to be the spiritual person.

And you know, if we learn anything from this lesson,

what are we learning from chapter 12?

You know, it's not about us.

It's not about glorying in ourselves.

If you were to glory in anyway,

you glory in your infirmities.

And you know, if it's not about us, then who's it about?

Well, it's about others.

Paul's laying down his life for others

just like Christ laid his life down for us.

That we should be spending, that we should spend

on the others.

We should be investing in other people

and loving other people and caring about other people.

And you know, I think one other lesson

we can take away is that

if someone is being attacked,

you can get in there and defend them.

You can commend them.

You don't always have to let them defend themselves.

And hey, let's just be honest.

If they're defending themselves from attacks,

you don't have to pile on.

Well, he's prideful.

I don't like how he defended himself.

Well, you know what?

You not defending him wasn't very helpful.

You doing nothing wasn't really that great.

And hey, why don't we all take a moment of reflection

and think about is there's someone in my life,

whether it be your boss, your husband, your wife,

a brother, a sister, a mom, a dad, a pastor,

anybody in your life that's been doing you a lot of good.

And you have like a bad attitude towards that person.

You're not really being appreciative towards that person.

That you're like, hey, if I think about it on paper,

they're actually kind of loving me a lot.

And I'm really just being mad at them.

And I need to fix that.

I need to appreciate what they are doing for me.

I need to appreciate what God has given me.

I need to appreciate where I am.

And you know, cause let's just be honest,

in many ways we live at the top of the food chain

at the cream of the crop.

I mean, we live in such a great country

with a great state and a great area

with great opportunities.

Is it perfect?

No.

Does it have its challenges?

Life has its challenges.

But I'm telling you,

we have first world problems compared to so many people.

And so we have new IFB problems.

We don't have old IFB problems.

We have new IFB problems.

You should be thankful for them.

I've been in some of those old IFB problems.

I don't want those problems.

I mean, I've been in church meetings

where the guy's getting up saying like,

he thinks he's a homo

and like wondering what he should do about it.

I'm like, you think you have bad people in this church?

Let me take you to other churches

and show you some of the bad people in those churches.

You know?

Ah, the sermon was too long.

Well, I can't fix that.

Okay, I don't know.

I don't know what to tell you.

Hey, if you were so good,

maybe we just get out of here sooner, you know?

I just got to preach all this extra stuff.

No, I'm just kidding.

But you know, hey,

we should appreciate the people in our lives

and we should not be the 95% that they'll say thanks.

Let us be the small few

that it can at least be appreciative and thankful.

And let us make sure that we're thanking God

and giving him the glory for our church.

Let's go some prayer.

Thank you Heavenly Father so much

for giving us this awesome church to go to

and all these awesome people to serve the Lord with.

I pray that you would help us to be appreciative

of the things that we have of our jobs,

of our spouses, of our parents, of our children,

of the state and the country that we get to live in,

of the King James Bible,

of our opportunities to be evangelistic

and the missions trips and the conferences.

I pray that you would help us to be appreciative

and to be thankful and to help us to have a spirit

to serve others and to love others and to do good

unto others and not glory in ourselves

and not to try and lift up ourselves

but rather to think of other people.

In Jesus' name we pray, amen.