Unpacking the Pharisees: A Candid Conversation on Religious Hypocrisy

You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk

about the Bible in fun in practical ways. It's Friday, Friday. Yeah,

Friday is a good day. Everybody loves Friday. Everybody loves g if

except me. I love working so much. I hate the idea of taking

a weekend. Well, don't you only work on Sundays? And yeah,

as a pastor the rest of the time, I just sleep under my desk

that I hope nobody will under my desk. That's so funny. Yeah,

and so all through the years I have actually had people joke about that,

but I've actually had people legitimately say yeah, oh, I think a huge

number of people go they go, what else do you do? Yeah,

what else do you do besides preaching on Sunday? That's hilarious. Yeah,

because everything that happens on the weekend is just it's just magical. We got

together this morning, Hey, what should we talk about? Well, hey,

how do we get three hundred and fifty volunteers to do all these things?

You know, it just it just happens it hap morning. Yeah,

magically, it's so funny. Okay, So today we are starting off even

though it's Friday. We're not doing what made Chris mad, because we do

and we don't. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. That makes me

mad. Made Jeff mad today is that we didn't do what what made Chris

mad this week? Well, and last week, didn't we do what made

Chris happy? Some dumb thing. Oh yeah, you're right into it turned

into Chris mad. Okay, So today we're doing a different segment and it's

written in as stump the pastor okay, and by the way, uh,

what do you think we just told everybody what's going to happen in a couple

of days. What do you mean because they haven't heard the episode where you

get mad about being happy? Oh that's hilarious. Yeah, well already played.

It would have already. Okay, it already played. I'm getting messed

up in the in the time warp that we record, we record and get

released. You're right, they've already heard it. Okay. So by the

way, side note, if you ever want to write us in a question

that you want us to answer, or if you want to write in honestly

anything, the best way to do it is to send us an email at

info at the Bible guys dot com yea, and or you can comment through

any one of our you know, YouTube or anything like that. Just make

comments through Google whatever it is, and we will get those and hopefully you

know consider to to talk about them. So today is written by Jeremy P.

Jeremy and Jeremy writes this now an avid hunter, yes, meaning apparently

he wasn't before, Yes, is now but now an avid hunter. Yes.

I've been raised to enjoy the outdoors and provide for my family through nature.

Recently, I've been wondering about whether Jesus a red meat or if he

was a pescatarian? Is there any evidence confirming either? Thanks my fiance,

my fiancee Lindsay, and I love the show. Oh well, thank you

Jeremy P. For saying that at the very end. Yeah, thank you

pescatarian? And is somebody that eats fish and vegetables? Fish and vegetables?

Yep? Okay, So we know Jesus did eat fish, of course,

and we know that Jesus did eat vegetables. Yes, but the question is

so hey, by the way, I'm an avid hunter also, Jeremy,

So way to go, so good question, So straight to it. The

Bible talks a lot about Jesus serving fish, and he lived around the Sea

of Galilee. That's going to be the easiest and cheapest and most easily replenished

food source for the people around the sea galley is going to be fish.

Yeah, because red meat was a delicacy. It was, it was a

privilege, it was it was usually reserved for special occasions. And oftentimes a

man's wealth would not be in the coins he owned, it would be in

the sheep and the cows he owned. Right. So you and I we've

worked in with the Pocots in northwest Kenya, and they don't use cash,

right, So a goat is worth about thirty five US dollars, a cow

is worth about five goats. A camel is worth about five cows, right,

So that's that's kind of how they and so they would trade based on

that. So you don't want your you don't want to eat your money,

right, Instead, you want your money to keep multiplying. So as long

as they can reproduce, they typically won't kill their animals unless it's the fatted

calf like Jesus told the story about, or they'd be fattening one up for

a big family party, but the rest they would they want them producing and

reproducing until they can't, and then it would be after that that they would

eat them. So a lot of the red meat that people would have eaten

back in Jesus day would have been fairly tough, unless it was that fatted

calf that was being celebrated. So that's part of it. But what we

do know is that Jesus wholly and completely celebrated passover, and their requirement in

passover is roasted lamb. Yep, right, so at least thirty times probably,

so he died when he was thirty three and a half roughly, as

we estimate. And if that's the case, let's say the first three years

he didn't eat any meat, but years he ate at least one time a

year he was eating roasted lamb. Yeah, and we know this because it

was required. Yeah. And then and not only that, but then Jesus

also, you know, usually a pescatarian would be somebody who wouldn't condone the

eating of red meat, whereas Jesus actually taught parables talking about like for instance,

in Luke fifteen, you know, slaying the fatted calf and then compared

it to the Kingdom of Heaven, saying that you know, those who come

in and don't know God, there's rejoicing and there's banquets, and there's feasts

and things like that, and so he so he often you know, use

those in his illustrations, which means he didn't, you know, speak against

it. Yeah, he never never spoke derogatorially about about red meat. And

then you know, from those teachings, then Jesus would have only eaten clean

red meat. So Jesus probably never had a bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwich.

Right, So he'd never had a pork, uh, Right, those

kinds of things probably never ate. You know, even when it came to

seafood, he would eat fish, but he would have never eaten shrimp or

lobster or crawfish or anything like that, clams, oysters, right, And

that was because he was Jewish, right, because so within their law they

didn't eat unclean foods, and those are in the law. And then and

then well what God said was unclean, right. And then, but the

clean animals would be those that chew the cud and have a split hoof,

so they could eat the camel, they could eat the the cow, they

could eat the lamb or the you know, the sheep, whatever, the

goat, They could eat those things. So it's the camel. Yeah,

yeah, I don't know can they eat camel? I don't remember if they

eat camel? And I I did not know that last thing that you used

to the cut. Oh yeah, it's a split hoof. That's that's how

they They had to do it. So like a pig has a split hoof

but doesn't choose his cut, and so they couldn't eat it. But lamb

or a sheep has a split hoof and choose its cut, so you can

eat that one. Or a cow has a split hoof, but you can't

eat a horse doesn't have split hoof. Well, I do know camels have

split hoofs right right, okay, yeah, but I don't know if they

do. They chose the cut, Yeah they do, it's not you,

I think. So Anyways, what I'm trying to say is there were these

rules, and Jesus would have followed the rules with regard to clean and unclean

food, and that would have been acceptable. We know that he passover at

least would have had to have eaten roasted lamb. That was acceptable. But

there's a verse in Romans chapter fourteen, where Paul says in verses two and

three, one man's faith allows him to eat everything. Another man whose faith

is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look

down on him who does not, And the man who does not eat everything

must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Right

and so, even back in the Bible times, they were arguing over whether

or not it would be better to only eat be a vegetarian or only a

pescataria, or it's perfectly fine to eat red meat. And Paul is like,

hey, don't fight about it, right, whatever you do doing due

for God. God gave permission for all the things. But if you're gonna

give about what's better, don't don't pass judgment on the other person. Let

them, let them do what they want to do on it. And so

and so so, my snarky self would also add into it. And yet

the Bible clearly says that He gave permission for all things. Even that verse

alone says, stop griping to me for reading red meat, right, Like,

stop stop making fun of me for reading red meat. Yeah, yeah,

but he's saying that the person who's struggling a little bit with it,

don't don't judge them, for they're struggling. Go ahead and let them,

you know, take a stricter rule, and that's the strict rule is perfectly

fine. So the more he's endorsing the idea that people are taking a stricter

rule as an act of worship for God, and that's perfectly fine. Don't

judge them. So so what he's really saying is is the people grip that

you just love them? Yeah, love them anyways. Yeah, don't fight

about it, No need to fight, no need to fight. And pass

the catch up. That's right, that'st the catch up, right one.

There you go, that's great. Matthew twenty three. Okay, so today

Jesus is warning against the religious leaders, right, and this is very significant.

Now in Matthew chapter twenty three, verses one through twelve, it goes,

then Jesus said to the crowds into his disciples, the teachers of religious

law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. So

practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don't follow their example, for

they don't practice what they teach they crush people with unbearable religious demands, and

never lift a finger to ease the burden. Everything they do is for show

on their arms. They wear extra wide prayer boxes with scripture verses inside,

and they wear rows with extra long tassels. And they love to sit at

the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues.

And they love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and

to be called rabbi. Don't let anyone call you rabbi, for you have

only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters.

And don't address anyone here on earth as father, for only God in Heaven

is your spiritual father. Don't let anyone call you teacher. You only one

teacher, the Messiah. The greatest among you must be a servant. But

those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be

exalted. The same idea in Mark chapter twelve, verse thirty eight. Jesus

also taught be where the teachers of religious law, for like to prate around

and flowing robes and receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and

how they love the seats in the marketplace, the seats of honor in the

synagogues, and in the head table at banquets. Yet they shamelessly cheat widows

out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in

public. Because of this, they'll be more severely punished. And then in

Luke chapter twenty, verse forty five, it says, then with the crowds

listening, he turned to his disciples and said, be where these teachers are

religious law for the like to parade around in flowing robes and love to receive

respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and how they love the seats

of honor in the synagogues and the head table at banquets. Yet they shamelessly

cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long

prayers in public. Because of this, they will be severely Yeah. Wow,

so so you know where my mind goes to. What am I going

to say? Do you know what I'm going to say? Immediately? Oh,

you're going to be grumpy about fake leaders? Yes, of course.

Well, and by the way, not not in today's day and age,

Because I mean, I'm certainly grumpy about those people, but I'm talking about

just the Pharisees so in the Bible, because so many times when I gripe

against the Pharisees, you come to their defense in some ways and say,

but they were trying or whatever, And I think what happens is the tendency

is for you to give them way more credit than I do, right.

And what I'm saying is like, now, this is the example that says

they don't deserve anything, right, because it says it says number one,

they don't follow their example, and then it says they don't practice what they

preach, they crush people, and then he says this definitive statement, everything

they do is for show everything right, And so that's why I give them

no credit. So all the times where you've swayed me into giving them credit,

I renounce all of it. You renounce it, I renounce it.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, I'm like, they're just a

bunch of religious manipulators. Well that's what they thought religion was. Yes,

they thought religion was the show, yes, right, the piety of it.

And that's what I'm saying. I don't know that anybody got recruited to,

you know, Pharisee college to be a bad guy, right, Right.

They were inspired in the same way that people other people who might not

be real followers of Christ or whatever are inspired to go to seminary or to

become a priest or whatever. A lot of times it's they're inspired by the

goodness of that to perceived good. So you're saying that they actually, in

their own hearts, thought that they were trying to be good. Yeah,

I think so, and see and yet Jesus otherwise, why would you waste

your time on this? Right? It's an impressive life, but it's an

oppressive lifestyle, right, And so that's what I'm saying. I think they

thought that's how you please God because their religion was only laws. And look

how good they were at their laws. They never saw the heart. So

what Jesus is flipping upside down and the people are so amazed by is God's

looking at the heart. The heart is what's important. He does tell them,

go ahead and do it. They practice and obey whatever they tell you.

Oh, I shoot, you're saying You're saying, you're saying that the

idea of the heart is such a revolutionary idea that Jesus revolutionary. Yeah,

okay, all right, all right, right, which I did know that,

But this is an application to the Pharisees, which I'm considering because but

they thought their religion was the show. The show is the religion. So

in other words, like, it doesn't really necessarily matter if I cheat the

widows out of their house, because as long as it follows the law,

Yeah, as long as it's within the right of the law. But my

heart is I'm greedy. I'm not this obeying God because right, because I'm

not this obeying a law. Yeah, right, And you're saying in that

way, that's right, they consider themselves righteous, that's right, that's right.

That's all I'm saying is so I don't think that they were good guys.

I think they were bad guys. I don't think they knew they were

bad guys, all of them, all right. I'm willing to receive some

of that, yeah, But on the other side, I'm willing to accept

the fact that it says everything they do is for show. Yeah, So

Jesus isn't giving them any credit none other than the fact that they do.

And he does give them a credit a couple times where he says, you

guys tithe on your mint and your human and your table spices, which you

should, right, but just don't leave the more important things undone, right,

justice and mercy. You neglect the most of the most important things.

And so I think that that's what Jesus is trying to say, is don't

neglect the most important things. Even here he says you should practice and obey

whatever they tell you. H But he's also implying just don't do what they

do because they neglect the most important things, right, right, So your

lifestyle matters, whether or not you're obeying God matters, But they leave it

at that point. Don't overlook the fact that he says for they don't practice

what they teach. Is that's exactly right. Right. So that means that

even the law that they teach, they don't they don't follow. Yeah,

unless it's unless you're taking it. As Jesus had mentioned, if you hate

a person, it's the same as killing them. They're not practicing what they

teach because they didn't kill anybody. But man, they walk around hate in

their heart. They didn't sleep with somebody who wasn't their wife, but man,

they walk around lust in their heart all the time. So it may

be, which, by the way, side note, that's the reason why

Jesus said those things right, right, And in the in the in the

Sermon on the Mount, what he was trying to do is he wasn't trying

to say to you, let me tell let me tell you how how important

lust is. What he's saying as you think you're righteous because you didn't murder

anybody. But I'm telling you that if you hate your brother and you call

him fool, it's the same as it's it's the same sin's yeah, it's

the same sin, right, the fact that you didn't actually end his life,

it's hatred that leads you to that point. Right. And what he's

saying is you're guilty of breaking the law. That's that's right. But Jesus

so in this one he ends it with and you're stealing old widow's houses,

right, which I think he's dealing with coveteousness there, greed, right,

That's what he's doing is is just because you did it legally, your heart

is still greedy, which makes it bad. Right. You can do the

right thing the wrong way and it's wrong, yeah, right, And that's

what he's talking. I think here is that he's going after your heart.

You do not do the things that your words say, your words, your

lifestyle, because he commends them a couple times for their lifestyle. They live

very holy lives. Their heart is dead, and that's why he says,

you're like white at septics. On the outside, you're painted up, real

pretty. Everything you do is the right thing, but inside you're full of

dead men's bones. You know. I think I just, in this very

moment, connected some dots in my own life how I'm wired for the very

first time in my entire life. I just connected some dots right now in

this moment. Wow. So it took me a long time to figure out

that. Like, you know, like we always make a joke and say

what makes Chris mad today, right, which is appropriate that today is Friday.

But one of the things that I figured out is you always say you

don't get mad for you, you get mad for all the people, right,

But the reality is that it is actually true. That is actually true.

So like, and my kids and my wife will verify this all the

time. So if I'm in a restaurant there's bad service, I don't get

mad because I receive bad service. The thing that I harp on and they'll

tell you this all the time. I'm irate for the owner of that restaurant.

I'm angry for the owner. I'm like, I can't believe that that

teenager is ruining this guy's business, right, And that's what I do,

is that's the way I'm wired. I'm wired that way constantly. You're a

champion of the people, Chris. I don't know why, but you joke,

but that's actually true. I'm actually, in some ways a champion.

You are you are, thank you. Okay, So listen, reason the

reason why that's right, The reason why I'm so angry at the equivalence of

Pharisees today, right, So you because I mean, I make no I

didn't make no apology about how much I can't stand church culture when it's corrupt.

Right. You know, people who place themselves as judging or better than

or they murmur they you know, and I just and you've probably would you

definitively say there's no one who dislikes it more than me that you've met in

your lifetime. Yeah, you're very vocal about it. Yeah, and so

but the point is is I've just here's the dots I've connected in my life.

I'm not necessarily mad about me because I survived it, right, I

could have been derailed from it, right, you know, like all the

people in my life could have derailed me, sure, right, but they

didn't. I'm mad for the damage that it causes for everybody else. And

I've said that before, I loud, but I've never connected that the dots

that in the same way. The reason why I'm so mad about it is

not and on behalf of me. It's it's it's the same category as what

made Chris mad. I think I think you did damage to you, and

you tend to project and say if it did damage to me, thank god

I survived it, But it's doing damage to others, right, And so

I think that it's a dual thing. There's a resentment of how dumb a

lot of that stuff was in your life and how frustrating it was for you,

but you navigated through it, and then your assumption is that lots of

others didn't, and so it's their fault. But in my mind, and

obviously that's true, right, A psychologist would definitely confirm that, But in

my mind, it's like ninety ten. Oh sure, right, so it's

like ten percent. Yeah, there's damage to me, but it's ninety percent,

Like I do this for a living. I'm a pastor, right,

and so I would say there was a lot of damage to me too.

I just don't beat that drum all the time, right. So I think

you carry it heavily, which is fine. I think that it keeps you

constantly making sure that, Hey, I want to be the guy that doesn't

just say it but lives it. Sure, I want to be the guy

that tries to create a place that is more imbalanced with Jesus. Because Jesus

say, hey, you should live a good life. He says, practice

and obey what they're telling you. So he's not saying the words they say

are bad or the system that they're trying to manage it they're saying. He's

saying they're taking advantage of you, and they're hurting you because they think religion

is the point. And what I want is the relationship. I want the

heart. And he also says they crush people. Jesus says they crush people,

And that's that's my point. My point is is that my heart goes

out to those who've been crushed by the church, because there's people that are

wounded all the time from you know, the church, and I meet people

all the time. Oh I just I gave up on church a long time

ago, and I always say, I get it right, and I get

it. So my heart goes out to saving and rescuing those people as well.

And so then he says, he talks about how you can kind of

tell who they are by how they're living their life with regard to the expectation

for the title that you give them, what place at the party they get

to set, what kind of recognition and honor they're getting, you know,

the wearing their clothes just right, they have their verses literally on their sleeve,

all that kind of stuff. And he's trying to say, listen,

any pastor that you see, any religious leader that you see who's parading through

the streets or walking through the lobby, and they've got this entourage around them,

and they're wearing just the right clothes, and they're expecting you to kiss

the ring and they're expecting you to respect them with the right words. And

he's like, dude, these titles just don't matter. It doesn't matter.

People don't need to call your rabbi. They don't need to call you a

teacher. Let's be honest, there's only one rabbi. Let's be honest.

There's only one real teacher, right right. So it's not wrong for people

to be respectful. It's wrong for you and me and anybody that's in a

religious leadership role to expect somebody to treat us any differently than just you know,

respect as a human which is why he said, because your servants,

that's right, You're servants of the people, right right, Yeah, which

is great. Those who exalt themselves will be humbled, but those who humble

themselves will be exalted. Yeah, there's that parents. That is great for

all of us all day, every day at school, everything. Yeah.

And so I would just say, because I obviously capitalize on this aspect of

the podcast, I would just say, hey, if you're somebody out there

who maybe you're like, I'm sort of relating to it because I'm a person

that's been crushed by church politics and I stop going to church, but I

listen to podcasts like this. I read my Bible, I have a personal

faith, and I would just say, hey, listen, just understand as

long as you keep it in perspective. God is perfect, God is sinless,

God is worthy of our service. Right, Like the church is going

to let you down, but it's only because the people inside the church are

imperfect. Right, So don't let that keep you from God. Don't let

it keep you from your faith. Don't let it keep you from still believing

in your faith just as strongly. So survive it, get over it,

right, Don't get over it because those people are worthy of your forgiveness.

Get over it because they're not defining your faith. Right. You don't have

to follow a bad teacher or somebody who's self centered, but we do need

people who are ahead of us spiritually. Find somebody, Find somebody who's a

little further down the line than you spiritually that you can go on this journey

with, that you can respect and that does show on and respect to others

and serve other people. If you can do that, then hey, it's

it's way better to go together than to go alone. Yeah, that's great,

that's a great word. Well, hey, that's our time, and

so hopefully we'll see you on Monday on the Bible guys. M