Doubting Thomas: The Importance of Doubt and Faith

You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk

about the Bible in fun, in practical ways. Hey, welcome to the

Bible Guys. I'm Chris, this is Jeff, and we are glad that

you joined us. Absolutely, this is going to be a good episode.

You picked a good day. Yes, and you know what it isn't just

because of the scripture, because that wins, but it's also because of our

riveting segment. This segment is well, it's going to be a challenge.

Did you look at it already? Not really, it's one must go.

Yes, And so we have two options that are going to be presented,

and you have to decide which one stays and which one goes forever. Right,

it can be established whether it's for the world or whether it's just for

the other I think Okay, let's say it's for the world. Okay,

you want to say it's for the world. I do, But the catches

that we're doing the answer for the other person. Oh, then let's keep

it to the person. Then, oh, just to the person. You

never ever get this again, Yes, you specifically, like the whole world

can enjoy it, but you will never so what we're supposed to be doing

is guessing what the other person would guess, would would choose. Does that

make sense? Oh? I was interpreting it as guessing for the other person.

Right, What we're doing is we're guessing what these other one would If

I were to say hamburgers are tacos, I would say, Jeff would rather

have hamburgers for the rest of his life than tacos and tacos. That's right,

that's right, that's what we're doing. But but but but hey,

hang on, hang on. This is important now because now you're thinking about

punishing the order, or if you want to make it for the whole world,

then I would have to interpret it as not just Jeff's experience. But

am I guessing what Jeff would guess for the world? Yeah? Or am

I just guessing what Jeff would guess for Jeff? I really? So we've

already had this conversation, I know, I know, which is why it's

important. Let's establish it up front, buddy. So, so I would

say, these are for us, what would we prefer? I agree?

How the world to work from that? I agree? I agree? Okay,

So here we go. Okay, So the first one is Lord of

the Rings are Star Wars. Okay, that's an easy one for both of

us. I think, I I I want to say, yes, I

think i'm I think I know how easy it is. Yeah. Yeah,

so you you you would choose Star Wars to last forever, yes, because

you can't stand Lord of the Rings. And I would choose choose Lord of

the Rings because because you love Lord of the Rings. I love Lord of

the Rings. Yea, yeah, yeah, you read the books and love

it. I read the book. I read the entire trilogy of the Lord

of the Rings. Yeah, six or seven times. I read the Hobbit

eight times. Wow. Yeah. So yeah, So so that was good

you when you said how easy it was going to be, that was an

easy one. I was like, I hope you were thinking what I'm thinking.

Yeah. And by the way, uh, Lord of the Rings.

You know, my only problem was so actually we were getting rid of one

so for you, the one that so it's called one must go. Oh

yeah yeah, so I just accidentally got rid of Star Wars for you forever.

Now, I'm sorry. So the one that has to go, the

one that has to go for you, yes, the Lord of the Rings.

Because you choose Star Wars and the one that would have to go for

me as Star Wars, because I would choose the lad Rings. And just

to be clear, I've never read Lord of the Rings, and I realized

that if I would have read it, the movies would have been ten times

better for me. Yes, I can't pay attention. No, no,

I just rewatched them. I just rewatched them go on line. I know

online is full of dumb people. I don't pay attention to comments. Well,

I watch it because I agree with your critique of Lord of the Rings.

Well you didn't pay attention. It's it was too hard to follow.

Yeah, there's a ring that has to be destroyed. It's not that hard,

dude. I hate to ruin him for you. There's a bad guys

a ring. There's a bad guy and some good guys, and the good

guys are going to try to destroy this ring. Yeah, it's not real.

Complix slowed down Copernicus, and I hope I didn't ruin the movie for

everybody. Okay, okay, I just watched all those movies on the airplane.

I'm sure I've been in the plane sixty hours in the last thirty days,

and so I've watched all those movies again. Right here we go.

The next one is Chinese food or Mexican food. Which one would Jeff rather

get rid of? It must go, it must go. I'm going to

say, you would rather get rid of the Chinese food. You love both

of them, but you cannot do without Mexican food. That's correct, Okay,

And I would say the same for you. That is correct. Okay,

there you go. Yay for two, buddy, Okay, okay,

all right. So the next one is which one which one must go?

The office or Seinfeld? This is tough. I would say that you would

say Seinfeld must go. Yes, I agree, and uh, this is

tough. But I'm see I don't ever recall you quoting Seinfeld. But I

don't know if you're a true blue office person either. So there's a part

of me. I don't really do a lot of TV. I know,

I know, I know, But there's a part of me. I'm gonna

play this out here. There's a part of me that thinks that you would

rather the office to go because Seinfeld was so clever and influential in culture.

So like we have actually like terms that we use, like when they when

they say double dip a chip, Oh don't double dip. Well, that

came from Seinfeld. And then and then there's and then there's there's other things

as well. Uh isms, there's a bunch of isms that really affected our

culture from Seinfeld. You know what, now that I'm talking out loud,

I'm gonna say that that's what you would choose. You're gonna say the Office

must go. And you would choose Seinfeld because of the cleverness of it.

That's correct, That is correct. And you would choose Seinfeld must go because

of the Office. Because so the Office didn't have the same kind of impact

when it was playing. The Office was rediscovered. It's the replace, right,

So this generation, this generation loves the office, whereas the Office was

popular when it was going on, but it wasn't an obsession. And now

this generation loves the Office. And kind of which Seinfeld, which is kind

of like Friends as well. Friends, Friends became way more popular on Netflix,

binging. I don't know, I don't think that's true. Really,

Friends was the most popular thing that ever happened on television up to that.

Yeah, you're probably right, except maybe mash maybe I forget it. Yeah,

but anyways, be mad, Okay, chick fil A or McDonald's.

Oh, this is a tough one. It's very tough. I mean,

you get rid of Ronald or do you get rid of Jesus Chicken? Because

that's those are the choices, all right. Why don't you guess for me

first? I would say that you would get rid of McDonald's. That is

correct, Okay, and tell me why because chick fil a is so good

and you lived in Georgia for a while. That is exactly correct. Yes,

yes, I have this connection to Chick fil A because I knew try

Kathy true Dan Cathy, his daughter went to our youth group for a little

while. And so yeah, I've been in this house and everything else.

And I have good friends, very good friends, like five of them that

own their own Chick fil A stores. I know a lot about the business.

I've been to Chick fil a corporate events and uh, not to mention

it's it's pretty dang amazing, right, And I would for you, Uh,

there's no competition. As much as you love Chick fil A, it

has to go because McDonald's is the essential of your morning. It's my morning

every morning, yep, that's right. Yeah, And it's the breakfast part

and McDonald's got me going in my life and in my career. That's right,

you worked at me. I worked. So I worked for an operator

that owned a bunch of McDonald's. He had a bunch and his regional manager

was phenomenal at picking leaders and developing leaders. And so in our system,

you know, most McDonald's aren't this way, but in our system, they

were great at developing young leaders, you know. And so we won all

kinds of awards and all that kind of stuff. So it was a really

good experience for me working for McDonald's. So that's it. And then the

last one, goodness, the last one is we have to say one must

go, which this is gonna be one of the most devastating segments in Chris's

entire experience to have to have to choose between Zach Efron in High School Musical

or Zach Graffron in The Greatest Showman and one must Go Forever, One must

Go Forever. God, I'm gonna vote they can both go. So so

let me just get mine out of the way. But we have to wrestle

with maybe you have to get you gotta follow the rules. Ja Okay,

okay, picks for me. That's what would you pick? Pick for me?

Which one would I rather? So, yep, you're you're Craig.

You have to did you have to pick? What? It's the room?

Okay, No, you're picking for me. Okay, So that's okay,

this is a long saving were gonna go, Yes, Okay, I'm gonna

say your answer and my answer are going to be the same. Okay that

zac Efron in High School Musical can go because the zac Efron and Greatest Showman

was a little bit more sure, a little bit more impressive. The movie

itself was way more enjoyable for us as individuals. Zac Efron is, you

know that it's that high school teeng music y girly you know, girls swoon

because he's you know, young and head hair and all that. So I

think I think that the Greatest Showman is is more of a me and you

show and way more me because I'm a musical guy. Okay, But I

would say Greatest Showman can stay. And that's how I was going to pick

it for you too. Is I was going to say that I thought that

you would choose the Greatest Showman. Yea, I would. I would just

because the one that would stay. I like it better. Okay, it's

way more relevant for me. So if you're new to the episode or to

the show, I don't know. Back before this was even called The Bible,

guys, right, a segment came out. It was early daily of

who if a movie was made in the inevitable movie that will be made of

Chris Sarba's life, Who's going to play Chris Starba? And he didn't even

think twice about it. It was Zach Effron. That's right, right,

that's right. And so since then this is been a recurring joke. And

so thank you so much, Desirae that that is the that's the choice that

we had to make today. It was really funny. But it did break

your heart to have to eliminate him at all, didn't it It did?

It? Is sure? Yeah, okay, exact's the best. So okay,

so we are in. That was so satisfying. That's the longest segment

we've ever had. Okay, ever, it's the best. That's the best,

okay. So John, Chapter twenty is we're wrapping up these appearances of

Jesus as we're coming out of the resurrection, and so he met with Mary.

He met now with the disciples. But then in John chapter twenty,

verse twenty four, it says one of the disciples, one of the twelve

disciples, Thomas, nicknamed the twin or Didamus is the Greek word, there

was not with the others when Jesus came, and they told him, we've

seen the Lord. But he replied, I won't believe it unless I see

the nail wounds in his hands, and I put my fingers into them and

place my hand in the wound in his side. Eight days later the disciples

were together again, and this time Thomas was with them, and the doors

were locked. But suddenly, as before, Jesus was standing among them.

Peace be with you, he said, And then he said the Thomas,

put your finger here and look at my hands. Put your hand in the

wound in my side. Don't be faithful faithless any longer. Believe my Lord

and my God, Thomas exclaimed. And then Jesus told him, you believe

because you've seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me. The

disciples saw Jesus do many other miraculous signs in addition to the ones recorded in

this book. But these are written so that you may continue to believe that

Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing in

him you will have life by the name, by the power of his name.

M hm. So I'll cool. Way to go John for announcing that,

because that's job John. So let me start off, because we have

a lot to talk about here with the bodily resurrection of Christ. But before

we do, I taught this passage one time and I was doing like a

deep dive, and I remember teaching this and ever since, ever since,

this discussion, after my teaching with my teenagers of all things, right,

you know, in other words, like it wasn't you know, I didn't

teach it in big church. I taught it to like sixty kids, and

we had this in depth discussion about the phrase eight days later. Have you

ever heard that angle? No? Okay, the fact that the fact that

Jesus waited eight days to come back and satisfy Thomas's curiosity, So it says

that Thomas was not there. So we're assuming because it doesn't mention everybody else.

So it's a safe assumption to say that Thomas may have been the only

one who wasn't there, right, Right, So everybody else comes back.

At least he was the only one that wasn't there that didn't believe. Yeah

yeah, maybe yeah, maybe that's correct. That could be it too.

But either way though, that means that everybody else believes right, right,

And and yet Jesus didn't come back the next day. He didn't come back,

you know, the next day, the next day, the next day,

eight days later, and never explains where Jesus was for a days.

Jesus, I mean, what else could he have to do? Right,

appear to the Romans, what appeared to you know, find another Inaus road

somewhere, like where was he? Why did you wait? Eight full days?

That kind of thing, right, And it just and it just goes

to show you that, you know, it's not as if Jesus didn't care

about Thomas's struggle, because when he appeared, he had this interaction with Thomas

that was extremely loving, gave him a lot of attention. Right, goes

up to him and says, Thomas believe. You know, First of all,

Jesus knew that he didn't believe. And then he says, feel my

you know, feel my nail scars, feel my you know, my side,

And and so he says, you know, in believe, And then

of course Thomas has this unbelievable you know moment where he where he proclaims that

of course Jesus is Lord and anyway, it's just, it's just it has

to do with God's timing. Where is God when I'm begging him for my

answer? Where is God? I need? I don't need him to show

up a year from now. I need to show I needed to show up

right now. I need him to answer this thing right now. I don't

want to look back or wait or be delayed. And it's like, what

is God busy doing? Doesn't he hear me? Doesn't he know about my

doubts or my situation? And and it just goes to show you that in

those eight days, God knew exactly what Thomas was feeling, and God cared,

and God had just as much attention and love and and and and all

those things for Thomas in those eight days as he did the day that he

showed up. And that's the point. So it was really cool. Well,

the along those lines, so you were ahead of your time teaching your

teenagers that along those lines. The Life Application Study Bible notes for this passage

say Jesus wasn't hard on Thomas his doubts. Despite his skepticism, Thomas was

still loyal to the believers and to Jesus himself. Some people need the doubt

before they believe. If doubt leads to questions, and questions lead to answers,

and if the answers are accepted, then doubt has done good work.

It's when doubt becomes stubbornness, and stubbornness becomes a prideful lifestyle. The doubt

harms faith when you doubt. Don't stop there. Let your doubt deepen your

faith as you continue to search the answers. Isn't that great? That's great?

And so during that time God could have allowed Thomas to struggle with this

thing because everybody else is so convinced, and he's thinking, I don't know,

I don't know how I feel. So we do know what he was

like on day one when they say we saw the Lord and he goes,

ah, I'm not gonna believe it. Let's I touch him, But we

don't know how he felt on day two, or on day six, or

on day seven. Right that doubt might have been exploring. He might have

been asking questions at that point, how do you know? How do you

know? You guys weren't just hallucinating, right, He could have been doing

an investigation. We don't know in that, But for you and me,

we can allow our doubt to lead to stubbornness where we go absolutely I'm conn

atheists will do this. Atheists will say there is no God, which is

incredibly prideful in the idea that it's possible for you to know everything. It's

not possible for any human to know everything. So the most intellectually honest atheists,

atheists would actually admit that they're agnostics, saying I'm not sure I can

know there's a God. That's fair. But to declare, you know,

Christopher Hitchins declaring there absolutely is no God makes you Your claim is you know

everything, and you've been everywhere, and you've experienced every possible thing, and

you've thought every possible thought, and you've explored every possible avenue to disprove that

there's a God. So instead, here, in this situation, instead of

the doubts leading you to make these big, grand, strong declarations that there

is no doubt, this stubborn or that there is no God. I mean,

because you're so stubborn in your belief, Let your disbelief or your doubt

lead you towards a more intellectually honest investigation. Try to discover are there reasonable

answers? And of course, after a period of time, Jesus does show

back up just for Thomas. It seems like, and this passage just seems

like he shows up just for Thomas. Who knows? And I really believe

that an honest doubt that leads to honest questions will bring you to an honest

encounter with Jesus every time. I don't know that I've ever met anybody who

really dug into an honest exploration of Christ that didn't find you right. Well,

whether he showed up just for Thomas or not, one thing is clear.

He shows up, and it says the disciples were together again, which

means everybody was there. But the only conversation that Jesus has in this passage

is only with Thomas. So, in other words, everybody was watching this,

everybody was witnessing it, everybody was there. Jesus din't acknowledge anybody else.

Whether or not he showed up just for Thomas or not, I think

it's pretty safe to assume Jesus's main concern was Thomas, and so he makes

this statement in verse twenty nine. You believe because you've seen me when Thomas

makes this phenomenal declaration, my Lord and my God, because he touched the

physical resurrected body of Christ. That's right. And so this idea of the

physical resurrection, the bodily resurrection of Christ is fundamental to Christianity. There have

been different heresies throughout history that oh, it was Jesus was a ghost,

or it was Jesus was like in an angelic state or whatever. But the

Bible says that it was the physical bodily resurrection. And because of Jesus physical

bodily resurrection, you and I at the final judgment, we will also have

a physical bodily resurrection. Right. Isn't something that would be consistent. The

reason why the physical resurrection is so important is because one of the arguments was

the Pharisees and the priests said they paid money to say, oh, he

was stolen, right or whatever, and then others would go he turned into

a ghost or whatever, and so to eliminate those things, the Bible is

very clear that Jesus physically rose from the dead, which means then he physically

took the punishment for your sin in his body. He physically paid the price

for your sin with his blood. He physically died. It wasn't like he

swooned or passed out. He physically died, having finalized the full payment for

our sin. And then he physically rose, having defeated the consequence for sin

and death and hell and the grave. And that then gives us confidence that

this isn't just an idea or a state of mind or some spiritual realm kind

of thing. This solves every human condition, every evil, every sin,

everything that we've ever done in our bodies, and God redeems that as well.

Yeah, and it's important that he had to have died and breathe his

last That's that's what happened. It said in the scripture, he breathed his

final breath. So it's important that he physically died because after all the old

Covenant that talked about, you know, the shedding of blood, there's no

forgiddness of sins, the slaying of the lamb, the slaughtering, the killing,

the sacrifice, that word picture that was really set in motion honestly,

even from the garden right I mean as soon as as soon as Adam and

Eve sin. What did God do? God, you know, brought on

death, and he killed an animal and made skin to cover their shame and

their sin and their awareness of everything else, of their knowledge. And so

there was a sacrifice in the garden and that was the first recorded you know,

death in Paradise from the very beginning as a payment for sin, and

so Jesus would have had to have died because that's what was required. It

says, you know, in no uncertain terms, the payment for sin is

death, not swooning, right right, the payment for sin is death.

He had to have completely died, which again adds weight to his last sentence,

which is it is finished, it is finished, it is done.

And then he dies, he breathes out. It says, he cried out

and then breathe his last breath. So that's it's amazing. So yeah,

a physical resurrection is you know, it's I would imagine it be so awesome,

you know, for Jesus and his Jesus powers to to you know,

go back in that body, be like whoo, glad, that's over.

Right. So then the Bible goes on and it says the disciples saw Jesus

do so many other miraculous signs in addition of these, Right, so John

said, man, I wrote down as much as I could. Later on,

there's another statement that says, the whole world couldn't contain all the books,

all the things that Jesus did, but he gave us the most important

things. So when you come across statements where it's trying to drive home the

physical resurrection or whatever it is, they seem like incidental details, but they're

incredibly important because he could have recorded so many other things. That's what John's

trying to say. I could have There's so much more I could have written,

but the most important things, the things that are fundamental to Christianity,

have been recorded so that you can continue to believe that Jesus is a messiah,

that by believing in him you will have life by the power of his

name. That's awesome. What a great way to end that passage. Yeah,

for sure. And I think that the thing that I feel compelled to

say is our listeners who are waiting on God, who think that God doesn't

hear them, or doesn't understand or doesn't you know, understand the timing or

the graphvity of your circumstance, and you're like God, you need to show

up, and it feels as if God is silent, and it feels as

if God is distant. Perhaps just know that every evidence in the scripture is

contrary to that that God God sees you. And you know, you know,

hey, God may not show up on the second day, third day,

fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh, and we don't know God's

reasoning, we don't know why, you know, God's timing. Those things

won't be answered, you know, anytime, you know, this side of

eternity. But but just know that that God knows and it's evidenced. Right,

God loves, God knows, God cares, God is with you,

God sees you. So even now, even when you're waiting, God sees

you. Yes, that's right, all right, Well that's hey, that's

that's a good wrap up and we'll see you next time on the Bible, guys,