The Character of a Leader: The Life of Moses

You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a

couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun, in

practical ways.

Hey, we're back. That's another episode. Is stunningly exciting episode

of The Bible Guys. I'm Jeff and this is Kyle.

Chris is out of town this week, but we are

super excited to have you calls. Right, this is gonna

be a great day.

Yes, I'm excited to be on this podcast with Jeff.

Come on, give it up for him. Wherever you're at

a little clap, wherever in the.

Car, or whatever may be. The people are going wild. Hey,

So before we get into.

Today's scripture, actually we're gonna play a quick game. And

wherever you're at in the car, maybe you're listening at home.

Maybe this is you know what you do while you're

working out. We want you to let us know your

answers as well, because I'm gonna ask you some questions.

Jeff and I got my perspective on it as well. Okay,

but basically, we're gonna play a game called one Must Go.

One must Go.

That's right.

Desiree loves this game. So between these two options, you

have to decide two wonderful things. One of them we

have to get rid of us forever.

Yeah, forever forever.

It's just we've eliminated this.

Never like Audi, your memory, it's gone. Okay, this is hard.

Here we go.

Here's the first one. Which one which one must go?

Spaghetti or lasagna?

Man, that is a tough one. Boy. I would say lasagna.

Has to go. Yeah, oh wow, I would choose would spaghetti?

Really? Yeah?

You know, and even to be honest with you, lasagna

like whoever invented that?

Like that's just kind of a creative Like it's a

it's a spaghetti cake. Yeah, it's like, okay, that's what

it is, just like make a cake mix some of

our verything. So you prefer prefer lasagna.

Well, I don't know.

If I've had bad lasagna. I don't have very often. Yeah,

I just don't have bad lasagna. Yeah, so I don't

have a problem. I'll make spaghetti, but I never make design.

I've never heavy.

Right, So that's that's the As I was making my decision,

I thought, well, if it has to be gone forever,

I should stick with the thing I know how to make.

Yes, that's good. A right kicking one. Which one must

go suku or crossword crossword puzzles okay really yeah, yeah, okay,

So I would have normally, but I started playing Sudoku

like a like a I wanted to make fun of boomers.

But I started, you know, sitting on the couch playing

saduku about a year ago.

There you go, there you go. Yeah, it's it's a

nice game. But I like crossword Okay, okay, third one

cross word crosswords require a broader knowledge of things than

just being able to put together a pattern. Yeah yeah,

right yeah.

And after a while, like I started getting in the Sadoku.

I was playing like the beginner level, and I thought,

I felt like I was pretty good. I challenging myself.

Oh yeah, I was like timing myself. And then I

go to like medium levels. Still pretty good. Then there's

like a then there's a whole other level Ofoku where

they give you like like four letters or four numbers,

and you're like, here.

We go, Yeah, you accidentally crack the code for how

to split an at them. Yes, I end up.

Finding myself in the back of the book where they

give away the answers.

A lot more than I'd like to admit.

Okay, all right, Third one, would you rather let go

the robot dance or the worm?

The robot dance or the worm? Let's get rid of

the robot dance? Yeah, because I think the worm is

more fun. Oh yeah, and my grandson can do the worm? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, the worm.

Man.

I think whenever I see somebody do do the worm,

especially if it's like a grown person, like at a wedding,

I'm like, I don't know what would happen if I tried.

It's way more impressive than the robot.

Would it be painful? Could you imagine trying to do

that like the worm? Like right now?

No, I would not. I don't get up, I'd get down.

I'd just be stuck there your knees.

I mean, like everything about it just seems painful with

the robot. I mean anybody can do that, right, that's right.

Fourth one, would you rather get rid of a banana

split or root beer float?

Ooh, that's this banana split or root beer float? I'm

going to get rid of the root beer float?

Wow? Really?

Yeah?

Do you have banana splits like bananas? Okay?

Yeah, what about you?

I think I've definitely had a lot more root beer

floats because it's easier to make.

Requires two ingredients.

But banans splits, I would say, yeah, if I had

to choose between the two of them, Yeah, banas split's awesome.

I just don't have them very often. Well, there you go,

and the last one, would you one must go? Mini

golf or laser tag?

Oh? Man, uh, Mini golf or laser tag. They're both

fun to me? Do you like? Do you like them?

I would say mini golf is really fun for the

first like four or five holes, and then you're like, wow,

we've got, you know, fifteen.

More to goteen more than to go and we're standing

out in the sun. Yeah.

Yeah, everyone starts cheating on their scorecard.

But the other side, you know, laser tag, if you

get a bad gun, it's shooting over to the left

or to the right and it's not very accurate, or

somebody has the gun that they just pull the trigger

and everybody gets you.

Yeah, you know, it's frustrating to get down.

You're like, you around, you're all sweaty. Yeah yeah, yeah,

I don't know. I think I would choose the one

that has to go is laser tag.

Oh really, Okay, I'm gonna choose many i'd get rid

of mini golf, get rid of me. I would say

laser tag. Though usually when I play, I would say,

I'm always shocked at like ten minutes fly by, and

you're like, I just dropped twenty two dollars for ten

minutes women play, Yes, so just from a frugal perspective,

laser tag kind of frustrates me, but I enjoy it

a little bit more.

I would say, you are.

Such a dad. To go back to yesterday's episode, I

just dropped twenty bucks for ten minutes, exactly.

Yeah, there you are, exactly, there you go.

You can't just pay, you can't just accept the fact

you paid two dollars per minute of ecstasy.

No, no, Now you're.

Feeling grund people exactly, and especially if I didn't win,

or like, you know, my name's not up on the

board and.

All four of you guys go at costy eighty bucks.

Exactly yep, yep, and then and then like the kids,

you know, they're embarrassing me the whole time.

Anyway, So yeah, that's right, Oh dad, you're ruining my

life's funny. Okay, Well, hey so we aligned on what

two or three of those Yeah, yeah, probably fifty to

fifty yep, okay, yeah, well good, well, I know that

that was a riveting segment for our listen. Our listeners

were just so worried about the things that we've banished

from human existence.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Anyways, Now, I mentioned yesterday that we for some

reason had the challenge of dividing these twelve verses into

two full segments. And yesterday we talked about the goodness

of God, that God keeps his promises. Moses was faithful, right,

That's what we talked about. And then today Moses dies. Yep.

This is the end of a really significant era in

the Bible, and the end of the life on this

earth of other than Jesus, I think, the greatest reader ever.

So here we'll just read the last few verses of

the Book of Deuteronomy. It says this in chapter thirty four,

verse five. So Moses, the servant of the Lord, died

there in the land of Moab, just as the Lord

had said. The Lord buried him in a valley near

Bethpure and Moab, but to this day no one knows

exact place. Moses was one hundred and twenty years old

when he died, yet his eyesight was clear, and he

was as strong as ever. The people of Israel mourned

for Moses on the plains of Moab for thirty days

until the customary period of mourning was over. Now, Joshua,

the son of Nune was full of the spirit of wisdom,

for Moses had laid his hands on him. So the

people of Israel obeyed him, doing just as the Lord

had commanded Moses. There has never been and another prophet

in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.

The Lord sent him to perform all the miraculous signs

and wonders of the land of Egypt against Pharaoh and

all his servants in his entire land. With mighty power.

Moses performed terrifying acts in the sight of all of Israel. Wow,

those last two verses, Man, Hey, how's that? How's that

for your epitaph at the end of your life in

the and I mean, that's recording the Bible for now,

you know, thousands of years.

So that's pretty incredibly cool. Yeah, I've been that verse ten.

There there has never been another prophet in Israel like Moses,

whom the Lord knew face to face.

I love that verse.

And in this Life Application Study by Ballant or just

read this section here, because they actually kind of do

a great job of summarizing, even though the end of

the chapter does a great job of summer.

I love the Life Study by Yeah, but I.

Want to read this little section in here and just

kind of break it down because it does a great

job honesty of honoring Moses. But it says this Moses,

the man who did not want to be sent to

Egypt because he was quote unquote not very good with words,

delivered the three addresses to Israel that make up the

Book of Deuteronomy, which I love. I think one of

his type. I think people refer to him as the

reluctant leader.

Yeah.

I mean, there's so many in the Bible, but he's

one of them.

He says, God gave him the power to develop from

a stuttering shepherd into a national leader and powerful order.

His courage, humility, and wisdom molded the Hebrew slaves into

a nation. But Moses was one person who did not

let success get to his head. In the end, God

was still Moses's best friend. His love, respect, and awe

for God had grown daily throughout his life. Moses knew

that it was not any greatness in himself that made

him successful. It was a greatness of the all powerful

God in whom he trusted and says there were many

great and powerful prophets during the time of the kings,

but it would be more than a thousand years before

one greater than Moses would appear.

And that's Jesus.

Yeah, isn't it great?

Yeah? I love that.

What a great way to summer up, you know, sum

up his life. I love the fact that you know

he argued with literally argues with God. Yeah, multiple times.

He has these face and face, face to face encounters

with gods. The only person in the Bible like that.

And at the beginning he's arguing with God. Oh, I

can't go because I stutter. Yeah, I'm not a good

speech giver. But here we are thirty four chapters in

and thirty three of the thirty four chapters in the

Book of Deuteronomy are speeches. Yeah, right, three, It's just

three big long speeches.

Love it.

He's up there speaking to millions of people, declaring, thus

says the Lord, and this is how you should live.

Choose life. And you know, oh, that you would choose

life and walk away from a life, of death, all

those things, and he's just so strong in his communication.

You read these things, and he has this strength and

this confidence in his speech giving, which is hysterical because

his biggest argument to God was I'm not a very

good Yes, it's.

Beautiful, And even that little section they're talking about how

his strength was not his own, it was through God

and just a reminder that sometimes we limit ourselves, are

limiting beliefs in what God can do in us and

through us.

Is it's pretty incredible, especially a story like this and

how much that means.

And I don't know about you, but I personally, I mean,

I have so many moments. You know, I don't know

if you're I'm sure your ministry background, I know, I've

heard I've heard a lot of yours stories about college

and things like that, but I had I remember when

I first actually got called into ministry. It was something

for sure that was a God thing, because it was

not a me thing. I was already you know, going

down a certain career path and that sort of thing.

But when guy called me, I remember the people that

I was most embarrassed to tell, where the people who like.

Knew me growing up?

Oh right, Yeah, and a part of it was just

kind of funny when you think back here, like there's

no way.

And then some of the people I went to high

school with, even some family members, wait, wait see, you

want to be a pastor?

Yeah.

And it's interesting, you know, because here's you know, Moses,

a reluctant leader. And I think so many, so many

of us, so many people I've met, they're like, it's

exactly how they describe themselves. It doesn't matter how confident

we may appear or others may appear. It's like internally,

you know, sometimes it has to start. It always starts,

almost always with that humility, that reluctance to lead.

Yeah, I did not want to be a past I

mean I can remember literally and always be careful with

this idea. I can literally remember telling God, I'll do

anything else you want me to do. I just don't

make me be a preacher.

Oh yeah wow.

And it seems like whenever we tell God I'll do

anything except this thing, God goes I got an idea,

You're gonna go do that thing? Right. It happens over

and over and over again. But yeah, there was this

is the thing. And then I had three pastors that

I worked for before I came to hero To Church,

and all three of them told me, thank God you're

a musician, because God didn't make you a preacher. Wow, right, right,

because that's what I was as I was a musician,

you know, a worship leader everywhere, and I just got

very poor grades from the preachers that I worked for

before coming to Heritage. And then when I came to Heritage,

I had spoken often to teenagers and young adults. I

ran youth ministries and children's ministries and young adult ministries,

but I had only spoken six times to adults.

Yeah, I thought, I remember that being a party of

yeah six times.

Six times. And so when I came to Heritage Church

the first time and they wanted me to speak to adults,

I was very It was in my head, yeah, man, wow,

that I'm not good at this. This is this is

where I remember thinking when I walked out, this is

why I'm not going to get this job. Right, They're

not they're not going to bring me on, they're not

going to vote to have me be their pastor because

I just I'm not a good preacher. And so I

went out and spoke and then tried really hard to

wrap my head around. When I got done, I'm trying to, like,

you know, do this autopsy on it. How did it go?

And my wife was like, oh, you did a really

nice job. And I'm like, I don't know, I don't

know if I did a good job a bad job,

you know. And then they called me back and kept

having me come back, which was amazing. And so it

turned out I'd only spoken in front of adults six times,

but they didn't ask wow, and so I didn't tell

them how and they voted me in anyways. But that

had always been for you know, probably half my time

here at Heritage Church. That's always been the thing that

I felt like, Okay, man, you know, God's just going

to have to get past this fact that I'm not

a very good communicator, and I feel like God has

filled in the gaps, and you know, yeah, that's pretty

wild though. That's pretty wild though that, you know, because a.

Lot of people who would you know, hear you speak

obviously you speak daily in a podcast, not to mention

on Sunday mornings, big crowds, all that stuff, would think,

oh yeah this probably comes now, Oh yeah, this is

this was easy for her, and this was probably He's

probably gifted with us from the beginning.

So, you know, as the church started getting bigger and

you know, all these magazines, you know, making a big

deal about Heritage Church, all of a sudden, I started

getting invitations, Hey do you want to speak at this conference?

Do you want to speak at that conference? And I

kept declining them. Yeah, right, Hey, some of those conferences

give you big checks.

Oh wow.

But I kept thinking, oh, if I go out there

and said, I'm going to get exposed as a fraud. Okay, yeah,

because you got these really great speakers and I'm not

a great speaker. And it was one of the things

that I think, I think God used that to keep

me from getting out on that stage thing, and instead

I gave all of my focus in my heart to

I want to help the everyday average preacher pastor who's

trying to figure out how to get a church started right.

So I really I shifted away from conference speaking, which

is not my thing, into really coaching and developing and

strategizing on how to help pastors get churches started right.

And so that's been a big part of my focus.

But I think a part of it was just being

intimidated intimidated by all these famous speakers, these guys. Our

church is as big as theirs. Yeah, but you know,

but I just never felt like equal to comparison. Man.

It's always if you compare yourself to other people, is

what Jesus says.

Yeah, but we do it anyway, Oh.

Ye, one hundred percent. But I do think it's interesting though.

You know, the thing that it said in the thing

that that Moses was known for, it said wisdom, which

he definitely was a wise man, courage, courage to to

do what he did, but then also humility marked him.

He didn't let success to get to his head.

And it makes you wonder if maybe that's a part

of I mean, there's many reasons why God was such

a close friend of him so on base to face

a relationship, but I'm wondering if it was just Moses.

Is humility the fact that he the way Moses viewed

God and related to God, and even in humility to

even like question God and have a conversation like there's

some humility and not just to say like, hey, I

don't know God, so I'm asking you this. I think

that out of humility in a way, you know, And

I think it's a really really uh cool reminder of

the fact that that is something that that that's a

characteristic that God loved so much. And then even in

that it talks about how Jesus ultimately becomes, you know,

the greatest prophet prophet ever and Moses a picture of Jesus,

Jesus himself we see throughout scripture. I mean, he didn't

he didn't use equality with God as something to be

used for his advantage.

He actually humbled himself.

And I think that's really a great trait of Moses

that so often, you know, we forget about because we

see all the heroics, we see him the speaking, we

see him as this great leader, and those are all

great things, but it starts with that, that perspective of humility.

Yeah.

You know, the Bible says that Moses was the meekest

person that ever lived.

Oh my God. Yeah wow.

And that's that goes along with that humility, that kind

of thing. We tend to think of meekness as weakness.

We tend to think of meekness as you know, a

meek person is a kind of mousey, kind of sissy. Yeah,

and that's the wrong way to view it. But I

think it's his meekness is what gets God's attention so

much with him. So meekness. The best definition of meekness

that I've ever heard is meekness is strength and power

under control. Right? Is it this knowing that you have

a strength, knowing that you have this power, but managing

it under control and put in submitting it to God.

So let's talk about this so called if he's the

meekest person ever and most of us view meekness as weakness.

You know, there was a time when God says Two

times when God says to Moses, get out the way, Moses,

I'm gonna kill these people. Right. But one time they're

all Moses up getting getting the ten commandments from God,

and the people are making an idol literally and Moses, hey,

I'm gonna be right back and go talk to God.

They see the thunder and the lightning on top of

the mountain, they feel the earthquakes. God's shaking this mountain,

but they're making a golden calf and they're dancing around it,

having a big party. God goes Moses, i am so

sick of these people. Get out of the way. I'm

gonna kill them. And another time they're complaining, Oh, you

just brought us out here in the desert to kill us.

Oh we wish we could get back to the leaks

and the garlics and the melons in Egypt. Remember how

good that was? Hey, you people were slaves in Egypt.

What are you talking about? But they can only remember

the good, they don't remember any of the bad. And

God says, Moses, get out of the way. I'm going

to kill these people, and I'm going to keep my

promise to Moses to Abraham through you, right, So just

got away. And Moses argues with God and goes, God,

you can't kill these people. You made a promise to

take them out. God goes, no, I'll keep the promise

through you. And Moses goes, you can't kill these people.

What are all of the pagans gonna say. They're just

gonna say that you brought them out into the desert

to kill them, right, and that you can't take care

of them. And Moses is challenging and You're better than this, right,

So he's just going, God, you're a good God, don't

kill these people. And the Bible says that God repented

of the evil he thought to do against the people

of Israel. Dude, how meek are you that you square

off and argue with God when God is so mad? Yes, listen,

the creator of the universe talking to you face to

face is so mad. He's about ready to wipe out

three million people. And you go, hey, hey, hey, calm down.

Let's you some reason here.

Yeah, come on right, Yeah, that is an unbelievable thing.

Now the idea of evil. Not all evil is sin.

Evil is just a horrible thing, right, That's what evil is.

So when the King James or I think the NASB,

when they use that word, it's what it is talking about.

Is God changed his mind. Repent has just changed his mind.

God changed his mind about this horrible thing that he

was about to do.

Yeah.

Right. So it wasn't that what God was doing was sinful.

It was the fact, because God is job, his justice

was demanding that this be resolved, and Moses was begging

for mercy. There but this incredible strength, this outrageous level

of courage to stand in the face of God and

plead for his people when a raging God, a God

who's angry, and Moses goes, God, please please just just

think this through. And which of course God had, but

he's pleading to what's the rest of the world going

to say? What's everyone else going to say? Moses has

the courage to stand to God, to stand up to

God and say, God, I'm begging you to change your mind,

and the Bible says God did so.

Is this only time that's happened?

God changed his mind?

Yeah, I'm trying to think of any other and any

other time in the old type somebody who could have

reasoned with God and got him to yea.

It depends on how you view what Abraham did with

God about Sodom and Gomar, where God says, hey, I'm

going to wipe out Sodom, and he goes, hey, if

you can find fifty righteous? How about how about how

about aready right? How could have been in twenty right?

It sounds yeah, and God keeps saying, yes, I wish

he'd gotten down to two because then he would have

found it right. But anyways, so it depends on how

you see that one. If God was changed his mind

or if God was just going along with, you know,

leading Abraham in this process. But in this one it does.

It does say God repented of the of the decision.

He was making. He changed his mind. Yeah, So in

this situation, I think it's just phenomenal to think that

you have this incredible man that God could see in

Moses what Moses could not see in himself, and you

would think at eighty you'd know yourself pretty well at

that point. Yeah, it's crazy, right, and he's like, oh,

I'm a stutter, I'm not a good leader. I don't

want to go.

Back to that shows Moses. He's like a thirty year

old trap right when he's called, right, isn't it. Usually

they paint this picture of him being young and you know.

But he's not. He's eighty years old. So it seems

like you'd know yourself.

But don't say by the time he's one twenty, he

still was in great shape and had great eyes.

Yeah, he had a great eyes sight, and he was

as strong as ever. Yes, his mind was clear.

It's pretty impressive.

Yeah, So here you have this guy, like you said,

he's incredibly humble. He's a person that is a friend

of God, which is really phenomenal. And you know, this

is one of the things. We just had a meeting

with our staff and all staff meeting with grilled and

had some Hamburgers and all that kind of stuff. But lately,

almost every staff meeting, I'll bring up the idea that

God is blessing us beyond what we deserve as a church. Right,

as a team. Though we just baptized a couple hundred

people on one weekend, We've already baptized four hundred people

this year. Geez, halfway through the year. Right, we have

a thousand more people attending now than we did last year. Right,

All these things, the church stuff that people dream of

having ever happened in their lifetime, we've had happen in

a year. And so we have a lot of young

staff members, a lot of staff members in their twenties. Yeah,

you and I, unfortunately are not anymore, or thank god,

are not anymore. But you know, sometimes and start to think, well,

this is how it goes when you have a good plan,

when you work kind of hard, when you have a

good budget. Of course you can pull Ourse's area. We're

doing great, and so, over and over and over again,

I keep going back and reminding our staff, Hey, listen,

God is blessing us in spite of us, and so

if you are seeing blessing in your life today, you

are being blessed in spite of you. God blessed Moses

in spite of himself. Right. We know Moses had his

his favors, but God did bless him. I think because

of a couple of reasons. One, he was holy. This

is a man who kept himself set apart from God

all the time. He kept himself holy. And I think

that if we want God to continue to bless us,

we have to be holy people. He was incredibly humble.

That's that meekness, that's that humility. That's just he's not

putting himself out in front all the time, pushing himself Instead,

God has to push him out there and then be helpful.

And that idea it's in the Bible all the time.

The New Testament. The word helpful oftentimes is translated as edify,

build up, encourage the others. And this is what you

see from Moses. Moses warns people about the judgment of

God and the curses of God, but he spends more

time going listen, God wants to bless you.

Do the right thing, go the right direction, trust.

And he's constantly lifting them up. In chapter thirty one,

he lays hands on Joshua and he says hey, Joshua's

going to be the leader, and two different times he says,

so be strong and courageous. Joshua, right, Joshua, be strong,

be courageous. He's constantly building up, he's constantly encouraging. And

so we need to be if we want God's blessing

in our lives and we want to be like Moses,

we need to be holy. We need to just be

walking away. He chose not to go with the lifestyle

of Egypt, and you and I live in Egypt, we do,

and all the godless stuff around us, and he chose

to reject that lifestyle. He chose to be holy, and

he chose to go with Jesus and suffer for Jesus

rather than have all the benefits of Egypt. He walked

away from all that godlessness, and we need to walk

away from the godlessness in our society. And then he

was incredibly humble and he was always helpful. Those three

things I think set us up for being able to

receive blessing similar to what Moses received.

I remember hearing quote one time that says it says,

if you want to test a man or woman, if

you want to test a man's character, don't give him adversity,

give him power. I thought that was interesting because a

lot of times when we think about our character, we

think adversity will determine because there's you know a bunch

of quotes about testing and.

Going difficulties up, and I believe that's true too.

But it's like, if you want to test a man's

character given power, which in a lot of ways, power

would be success.

Right.

So you're talking about this idea of you know, seeing

some of the blessings and oftentimes with that, you.

Start to feel power. If you start to feel successful, you.

Feel like you got some wins, and in those I

feel like God is kind of just like hold up,

remember remember like just like like remember who brought you.

Out of Egypt? To remember?

Remember that was God's promised the entire time to remember

remember remember. And I think it would be wise for us,

in light of you know, Moses and his epic life,

to just go back to that, just remembering who got

us there.

That's right, that's good. That's a great place to end

right there. Man. Well, hey, thank you for joining us

here on another episode of the Bible guys, and we'll

see you again tomorrow.

M