Should I Discipline My Child as a Christian?: Proverbs 19:1-29

You're listening to the Bible Guys, a podcast where a

couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in

practical ways.

Jeff, I have a question for you.

Oh good, Are you competitive a little bit?

Are you?

Yeah?

Now?

Are you competitive to the point to where you're angry

if you lose? Or you just care that it's a

competitive thing.

I care very much and I hate losing. Hey, winning,

winning is fun and everything else is not winning. That's

my You know, I'm famous for that phrase, right I gave.

I gave a speech in my first year at Heritage

Church over that I pulled everybody together because I had

a lady say, well, at least we lost a game

softball game, and one of the ladies was like, well,

at least everybody had fun. And I was like, that's it.

That's the last time we're having that. Because it was

every week and it was a terrible team. I said, listen,

we're going to turn this around. We're going to become

a winning Heritage Church. Wins are and so winning is

fun and everything else is not winning. So stop saying

at least you had fun. It wasn't fun. We lost,

and everybody's like, oh my goodness. And it was like

for the next two weeks, people are like, are you

doing okay? You okay, you're taking a softball thing a

little serious and said, no's that's a loser mentality. At

least you had fun. No, we lost, that's not fun.

There's a lesson. There's a lesson. We learned a lesson,

but you have to admss hopefully we got better.

There is fun while playing the game, whether you were

to lose.

No, you lost, it's not fun.

Losing, Well, couldn't you argue and say the game was

fun and but losing was terrible?

I could say it was exciting.

Okay, all right, yeah, all right, but not fun.

Not fun. Winning is fun. Everything else is not.

Remember the Titans. It's not fun, is it? Is it?

It's not fun?

Right now? No fun.

Can I tell you a secret, Yes, I've never seen

Remember the Titans.

No, that's when you need to see.

Yeah, I've never seen.

There are other ones that I would just say, you know,

because you know, you know how it is.

Right.

If you think a movie is like great, and then

and then somebody says.

They haven't seen it, You're like, oh, you need to

see that, right, that's like ninety nine percent of things.

But there are certain movies where you would say, well, whoa, wha,

wha whoa you personally, you.

Would love this one, that one.

Yeah, And it's honestly, it's it's so unbelievably good that

you need to actually see it.

So I've seen that clip. It's not fun, is that

I've had people send me that clip knowing that I

did that one time?

Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, but but okay, yeah, no, you absolutely.

Well, maybe I'll watch it. I watch it on the

air plane something.

Yeah, it's really really good.

Okay, So okay, so why did you ask me if

I like to win?

I don't even remember.

Now, I'm sorry. Did I distress because it's because a winner? No?

No, no, because our segment is dad joke, competition, competition.

Yes, all right, so it's a it's a competition. She

labels it as a competition.

Right, you're right. So we're gonna have to just determine

who the winner is when we're done.

I guess so, because it's because otherwise it's just not

gonna be fun.

Somewhat arbitrary. Yes, okay, are you ready to go go ahead? Okay,

I have a joke about chemistry. But I don't think

it'll get a reaction.

It's pretty rough.

I think I'm down on one there.

Yeah, that's not fun, is it? No, it's not all right?

Here we go?

Ready, I would love to get paid to sleep. It

would be my dream job.

Okay, it's a grinner. It's better than my first joke. Okay, yeah,

well that's what we should. They're going head to head. Okay,

about that. That's how we can do. Okay, Round one

is yours. It's one, and it's not about talent. It's

about with desiret right, Yeah, I know, but that's okay.

I still want to win. I want the best ones. Okay,

all right, okay, why was the broom late for the meeting?

Something about it?

Over it overswept. No, I'm gonna beat Wow, I'm over.

Okay, here we go.

I've been banned from the Secret Cooking Society. I kept

spilling the beans.

It's rough.

I don't know that's Secret Cooking Society.

Overswept, I actually believe. Or I'm gonna I'm gonna vote

for overswept.

Overswept. Really over overswept is more? Overswept is more clever?

Yeah, spilling the beans No, that's rough though. Yeah, that's rough.

That's rough. Okay, So you're you're saying it's a one one. Yeah,

I'll accept it. I need the point. Okay, I just

quit my job at the helium factory. I just refuse

to be spoken to in that tone.

Okay, that's good.

That's a good one. I think guys gonna win. Let's see.

I hope you're number three. Isn't that great?

I like that one? Okay, here we go.

Okay, all of my childhood punishments have become my adult goals.

Eating vegetables, staying home, taking.

A nap, and going to Bitterly. That's really funny.

It's a tough one. It's a tough and that's actually right,

it's a tough one. Well, it's it's.

More of a I like yours better, you know why.

Mine's more of a joke, Yes, yours. Yours is more

of an observation.

Yeah, and and it's like wildly bizarrely true.

Well, so, the little lawyer in my head, this is

a dad joke competition, not a dad observation competition.

Yes, right, yes, I think I.

Think I automatically win the joke two to one. Okay,

Number four, my dad told me a joke about boxing.

I guess I just missed the punchline. That's there's a

rough one. Yeah yeah, you saw that one coming.

Okay, so I'm definitely gonna win this one.

Oh no, okay, you're ready for this. Oh no, it's

so good.

It's so good.

I love your laughs. I love what I love when

you said laughing before you get to a joke. Okay,

So maybe it's good just reading it.

Maybe it's not good on delivery. I don't know, but

here it goes.

Ready, hang on, I got mugged by six Dwarves yesterday.

Not happy, Oh no, not seven, because happy would have

been the seventh for.

I got by sixth Dwarfs.

Kid, we're going to let you win that one. We're

giving you that point. And for you loving Disney so much, well,

you know what.

Listen, my daughter loves dad jokes. She laughs really super hard.

She actually believes it's like the funniest thing ever. Right,

I already know I'm going to tell her this and.

She is going to like bend over in laughter.

We should call her right now.

Oh my goodness. Now she's at home. I can call

her right now.

Okay, okay, color, let's let's let's call her and see

what happens, and then I'll give you my last joke,

my last joke while you're calling Tory. Okay, it says

I made a pencil with two erasers. It was pointless.

Oh wow, that's.

A good one. That's a good one. That's my but

that's going to be the hei breaker. Okay, all right,

is she on the phone?

Hello? Did I wake you up?

Yes? We're sorry.

Oh we're sorry. Listen, you've made the podcast. You're literally

on our podcast right now. I'm taping you. Is that fine?

Yeah, that's fine. Okay.

You know why I'm calling you. I'm calling to read

something to you. What do you think it is?

Read something to me? I don't know. Is it a

quotes or a movie or a song lyric?

No, well, song lyrics a good guess, because you're a

song lyric master. But it is a dad joke that

I want you to hear.

Okay, okay, I'm.

Ready, all right here, guys ready.

Yeah.

I got mugged by six dwarves yesterday. Not happy.

Okay, that's.

Okay, all right, I gotta go. I love you, I

love you.

That was worth it. Right there. It was okay, So

I just gave you my number five. I made a

pencil with two erasers. It was pointless.

Ye.

And then here's my last Okay, okay, yep, my.

Wife and oh no, hang on, my wife said I

should do lunges to stay in shape.

That would be a big step forward.

That's a good one. That's a better one than pointless.

I guess.

So I guess I think you went three to two.

I think I went three to two. And you got

the laughter from your daughter. So yeah, you're the winner.

That's a bonus.

Did I not tell you that was truly, truly, truly

loves see.

You just made her day? Yes, good job dad.

Yeah. And hey, and she made the podcast. Yeah that's right,

that's pretty cool.

That's right. All right, we didn't move on, okay.

So let's move on to proverbs chaps.

So I think you just did your daughter a favor.

Why? Why is that?

Because you just brightened up her day, made her laugh

for a minute.

Well, and I woke her up with laughter. Yeah how

about that?

And Solomon talking in chapter nineteen, he talks about how

many people seek favors from the ruler. Was that rough?

Wow?

Was that rough. Yeah, it was a rough one. Apropriately,

we got there, We got there. Yes, Okay, here we go. Ready,

we're in chapter nineteen. We're reading little one liner slogans

of wisdom about how to live life from Solomon. And

here's what he says in proverb of nineteen. Better to

be poor and honest than to be dishonest and a fool.

Enthusiasm without knowledge is no good. Haste makes mistakes. People

ruin their lives by their own foolishness, and then they

are angry at the Lord. We could have stopped there. Yeah,

let me read that one again again. How about I

read that again one more time. Ye, People ruined their

lives by their own foolishness and then are angry at

the Lord.

I've had those conversations before.

Yeah, let me read that one more time. People ruin

their lives by their own foolishness and then are angry

at the Lord. All right, we're gonna move on. Wealth

makes many friends quote unquote, Poverty drives them all away.

A false witness will not go unpunished, nor will a

liar escape. Many seek favors from a ruler. Everyone is

the friend of a person who gives gifts. The relatives

of the poor despise them. How much more will their

friends avoid them? Though the poor plead with them, their

friends are gone. To acquire wisdom is to love oneself.

People who cherish understanding will prosper. A false witness will

not go unpunished, and a liar will be destroyed. He's

already said that one before it. By the way, it

isn't right for a fool to live in luxury or

for a slave to rule over princes. Sensible people control

their temper. They earn respect by overlooking wrongs. The king

anger is like a lion's roar, but his favor is

like dew on the grass. A foolish child is a

calamity to a father aquarrelsome wife is as annoying as

constant dripping Wow. Not going to touch that one at all.

I have no idea what he's talking about.

Guess what you're displaying wisdom on your ears.

I have no concept of what he means there. Fathers

can give their sons an inheritance of houses and wealth,

but only the lord can give an understanding wife. Lazy

people sleep soundly, but idleness leaves them hungry. Keep the commandments,

and keep your life. Despising them leads to death. If

you help the poor, you're lending to the Lord, and

he will repay you. Discipline your children while there is hope,

Otherwise you will ruin their lives. Hot tempered people must

pay the penalty. If you rescue them once, you'll have

to do it again. Get all the advice and instruction

you can so you'll be wise the rest of your life.

You can make many plans, but the Lord's purpose will prevail.

Loyalty the person attractive. It's better to be poor than dishonest.

Fear of the Lord leads to life, bringing security and

protection from harm. Lazy people take food in their hand,

but don't even lift it to their mouth. If you

punish a mocker, the simple minded will learn a lesson.

If you correct the wise, they will be all the wiser.

Children who mistreat their father or chase away their mother

are an embarrassment and a public disgrace. If you stop

listening to instruction, my child, you will turn your back

on knowledge. A corrupt witness makes a mockery of injustice.

The mouth of the wicked gulpes down. Evil Punishment is

made for mockers, and the backs of fools are made

to be beaten. Wow, yeah, that's that. Hey, we mentioned

that in the last chapter two. This seems to be

a theme where Solomon says pretty much the only answer

for a lot of fools is just a beating, right,

And what he's saying is life is always going to

be painful for foolish people, right, Yeah.

And there's a lot of there's a lot of strong

language in this chapter, isn't there.

Yeah?

Yeah, I mean, you.

Know, and so obviously the one that we made a

joke about is a quarrelsome wife is as annoying as

a constant dripping And you're like, oh, I'm not going

to touch that one.

I have no idea what that means.

Yeah, that's so.

In fact, I personally had forgotten that was in there

until you just reread it.

Yeah, you just shut it out of your mind.

Yeah no, I yeah, yeah.

That's so funny.

And and you know that's a that is a obviously

a scripture that would speak to a wife who has

a tendency.

To be quarrelsome.

Right, So we won't let the husband apply that, We'll

let the wives recognize that in themselves.

If applicable that's why I'm trying to tell you. I

don't even know what it means. That's right.

But then another strong language obviously we just read it,

you know, the backs of fools are made to be beaten.

That is really strong. And what else, what other strong

language is in here?

Well, So it's interesting in King James, verse twenty five

and verse twenty nine are somewhat similar, and it says

strike a mocker, and the simple minded will learn a lesson.

If you collect the why, correct the wise, then everybody

will be wiser. And then in verse twenty nine it says,

strike a mocker. The backs of fools are made for

being beaten. So it's telling you there that sometimes you

have to pull somebody in and the consequences aren't just

for them, it's for the other people around them. The

simple people around them will learn, hey, there's consequences that

bad behavior. You know, so you've heard before in leadership,

always correct in private, yes, right, and always praise in public.

There is some benefit of that. On occasion, you have

to punish in public so that everybody understands there's significant

consequences that thing on occasion, right, And that's kind of

what he's saying, there is there is there If everybody

in the room is living this simple minded thing or

heading in that direction, or if this person is influencing

everybody else to do a bad thing, well then it

has to be a public thing right consequence to it,

so that you turn. So if you punish a mocker

the simple mind to learn a lesson and then correct

wise people and they'll be all the wiser. Right. But

on the other side, sometimes he just says that the

mocker type person, the person is just really disrespectful about

leadership and all that kind of stuff, then quite honestly,

punishment's made for them, right basically way saying is no

real hope you punish them, they're not going to change.

Yeah.

Another verse that jumps out of me is discipline your

children while there is I was.

Going to bring that one up, Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Otherwise you're ruined their lives.

So Tory, the who you just have the phone with,

I woke her up at nine thirty in the morning.

She sleeps in today.

We're technically filming this on a Wednesday, right, and we're

filming this and I know that the listeners are way

past Thanksgiving, but we're filming this the day before Thanksgiving off.

She has a day off because of the holidays. She's

a teacher.

She just told me a story yesterday about how this

child was doing these outrageous things. Outrageous, right, and then

they called the parent in because this child was so

you know, bad, And she said. The parents stood there,

did nothing and then waited until the child who bossed

her around left the room. And then the parent looked

at them and said, well, that's her. She just blames

everybody else. Okay, let's cool, honey, and just left. And

my daughter said, why don't parents understand how much of

a disservice that they're doing.

To their children? Right?

And she didn't say it that way, she said it

in a more frustrating way, right, But she you know,

was still like she was sort of amazed. Now here

she is at twenty four years old, and she already

knows better, right, right, And she's.

Thinking, like, come on, you have a job, people, you

have a job.

And and and this verse seems to indicate that there

is a spot where there's a point.

Of no return.

Right, that's exactly right, right.

Discipline your child while there's still is hope. Right, So

there's still hope. It's not too late for that lady

to to shape up as a parent, regardless of how

bad your children may be. Right, but there is definitely

a point of no return. And you know, it's that

other proverbs that says, what does it say, train a

child in the in the way that he or she

should go, and when they're old, they will not depart

from us, right?

Right?

Yeah, I think we're going to get to that one

pretty soon. Yeah, probably, So, you know, I think it's

amazing that Solomon wrote this, considering his dad was famous

for not disciplining his sons, right, and so I think

he this could be a testimony of this is what

I had learned in life.

But there seems to be But there seems to be

an indication though that that David spend time with Solomon.

David gave Solomon a really great speech. But it seems

like the credit for Solomon's raising was his mother Bethsheba.

That's probably true, right.

Because all of the sons are always named. And then

said the son of like Ada, Naija's the son of Hageth, right,

that that's that's how they would they would do that.

But Solomon is always mentioned the son of Bethsheba, and

it would talk about and he even talks about, as

you get later in the in this book, how wise

his mother is, that his mother raised him up. Right.

There's a couple of things if you remember in the

stories uh there towards Solomon, the and of Solomon's life,

that that she would intervene on his behalf and that

she was considered a wise woman in the country. Whereas

remember when it mentions ad Naija, it says that David

never even raised his voice to him, never corrected him

one time, one time, right, right. So then if you

look at the first four sons of David, every one

of them should have been in line to be the king,

and it was the fifth son of David that becomes king.

Right right, So Daniel died. We don't understand what happened

to Daniel, but you've got You've got Amnon, you have Absalom,

then you have Ada Nija. All three of them foolish,

All three of them tried to pull off a coup.

Yeah, and then David refused to talk toolte absolute right

for years.

Yeah, right, So there was no feedback on that. Then

it seems like you know, you have this wise young

man who's raised by a godly mother, and David late

in life, steps in and goes, hey, listen, if you're

going to be a good king, and he speaks all

these declarations to him about it, but I don't know

that we see him actively raising Solomon. And so that

phrase discipline your child while there's hope he can look

bad at back at three of his four older brothers

and go, my dad didn't ever discipline them, never, and

their lives are ruined. Right, otherwise you will ruin their lives.

That kind of phrase could be kind of a reflection

on you know, I feel like my dad, not disciplining,

not correcting his children, ruined my brother's lives.

Have you ever heard the theory that in Proverbs thirty

one King Lemuel was King Solomon. Yes, and so in

Proverbs thirty one, which, of course we may even get there.

We'll probably get there.

So this is a little bit of a cross reference preview,

kind of a comment. But the but the very first

I thought of the very first sentence in chapter thirty one,

where he says, and inspired utterance, his mother taught him,

yeah right, and and and he says and then and

then all of a sudden he goes down and the

thing that his mother taught him is warning against the

lure of women.

Yeah, alcohol, and it's not for kings.

Yeah. And I thought to myself, you know, if that's true,

if that's true, that that is King Solomon, then Beshiba

would have learned those kinds of lessons, right and h

and passed it on to Solomon. So interesting. Well, another

one could be that sticks out is if you are

if you help the poor, you were lending to the

Lord and he will repay you.

Oh I love that verse.

Isn't that great?

Yep?

Yeah?

So does what what verse? Does that remind you? If

I already know what you're going to say?

Well, I wasn't thinking about it.

Oh uh.

When he says, when you've done these things to the

least of these you've done them.

Oh yeah, Matthew twenty five, Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

So Jesus says, you know, hey, you visited me while

I was in prison. You you gave me a cup

of water when I was thirsty, you clothed me when

I was naked. And then and this is an encounter

with people in heaven. And then the people in heaven say.

Wait, a minute. When did I do those things?

He said, I tell you the truth that when you've

done it to the least of these, you've done it

to me.

And so I love the NLT says, when you did

it to the least these, that was me, you did

it to me. That that's how that's the that's the

language of it. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, well you

did it to me, that was me, Right, it's what

he's saying. Yeah, that was not like me, but to me,

it was to me. Yeah, that was that was to me. Yep,

and and uh and.

So here it is too. You know here it is

thousands of years before. If you if you lend, if

you help the poort, lending to the Lord and he

will repay you.

Well, we've both said from stage before. We've both said

you can never outgive God. God will never be in

debt to you, right, right, And this is the principle

right that whenever you give to the poor, give to

poor people, whenever you're generous, you're doing it for and

two God, you're loaning, it says, you're lending to the

Lord and he will repay you.

So I told the story in front of Stoney Creek

the Stoney Creek Campus on Sunday, and which means that

the majority of the people and the Bible guys will

have not heard it. But I'd do a quick reference story.

When I was in Atlanta, Georgia, and I was pulling

off the freeway, there was a guy on the on

the side of the road with a piece of cardboard,

you know, please help us kind of thing, And so

I took a left and my wife says, turn.

Around and give me all the money in your wallet.

And I said, what do you mean.

And at the time it was like the early nineties,

I had like eighty dollars in my wallet, which back

then I never had eighty dollars in my wallet, right,

And she gives she said, no, turn around, give me

all the money in your wallet. And so I turned

around because she has the gift of giving. This this

was my point of the story, right, she has the

gift of giving and I don't. And so I turned

around and she goes me give it to me, and

I handed her twenty dollars bill and she goes, is

this all the money in your wallet? And I said, well, well,

technically no, but the twenty dollars is a lot of money,

and she says, no, that's not what I said.

Give me everything you have in your wallet. And I

looked at her and I go, okay, everybody calmed down.

Everybody just calmed down right now.

I was like, Liz, we have eight I have eighty

dollars of my wallet.

She goes, I really feel like this is the right thing.

I want to give them all the money. And of course,

you know, the question is always when whenever you give

somebody on the side of the road. We've all seen

the things where okay, number one, are they scammers, which

I'm a skeptic. Number two are they going to buy

alcohol or bad things?

You know that kind of thing.

And I remember my wife saying, like, it's not my

responsibility to try to guess how they're going to spend

the money. It's my responsibility just to give what I

feel like the lord's telling me to give. Right, So

regardless of whether they go out and they spend alcohol,

let's spend on alcohol, or or they're a scammers, that's none.

Of my business, she would say, none of my business.

My business is I'm going to be generous, and then

as soon as I release that money, that's the end

of my.

Business, you know.

And and that mentality is the same thing that with

sol i'mon is saying, right.

You're going to lend to the poor, You're gonna do

it to the Lord.

So do I believe regardless of whether that person was

a scammer or not, that Liz would not be rewarded. Right,

She's gonna be rewarded, period, because as far as she knows,

she was giving to the poor, right, right. So, so

regardless of whether that person was a scammer or not,

or whether they were poor or not, that has nothing to.

Do with how God's gonna bless her giving heart.

Yeah, because she's lending to the Lord.

Yeah, that's what I would say, right. And by the way,

we gave all of that. And and my point of

that the story was, as I said, you know, I

do give. I'm I look to think that I'm a

person who gives it. It's just that her number one

gift is giving, right. And then I said, and I

said from the platform, I said, try being married to that.

Well, you can't outgive God. That's right, it's not possible.

That's exactly right.

He will repay you. The Bible says that's right.

Well, hey, that is our time, so hopefully we will

see you next time on the Bible.

Guys,