"Which Is Easier: ‘Your Sins Are Forgiven’?” | Matthew 9:1–8

You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a

couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in

practical ways. Hey, everybody, welcome to the Bible Guys. It

is Friday today.

Man, it's good to be here with you, Chris.

Yes, it's good to be here.

One in life is the fact that we have these

almost unlimited together and it just seems to never end. Yes,

that's so funny.

In your face too. You looked at me and you're like,

almost unlimited minutes together. It seems to never end. That's

really funny. We are in the middle of a series

called What If Jesus had a Podcast? We're covering famous

stories and famous sayings that he would probably get asked

about and cover on his own podcast. So we're going

to talk about the phrase which is easier your sins

are forgiven question mark and so we'll get to that

in a minute.

But before we do that, it's everybody's favorite segment. Here's

what happened is we almost had a riot last week

when we didn't do it, and then we threw people

off the last time we did do it because we

did it on Thursday, I know, right, right, And so

today's Friday, and so we're going to get back in

and give everybody what they This is like throwing red

meat to a lion right here. Love it. What made

Chris mad this week?

Well, Jeff, it happened last night.

Of course, and just a few minutes ago, just a

few minutes.

Ago last night, and I thought about this, uh, and

it made me mad. But I sent you a video.

We actually go if you, if your local and you

live in Detroit. There is the Detroit Symphony Orchestra plays

at Greenfield Village in Dearborn and they do.

It Grief of the Village for our listeners. Outside of Detroit.

It's the largest outdoor museum in the world. Yes, Henry

Ford collected famous buildings. So he has the Right Brothers

bicycle shop, the actual one he picked up, the building moved.

He has Daniel Webster's home where he wrote the American

English diction, Robert Frost, Robert Frost's home. He has Thomas

Edison's laboratories. Yes, all those kind of sects. This is

massive complex. Henry Firestone's farm where he invented the rubber tire, right,

all these things.

It's incredible. So anyway, we sit in the middle of

the field. The Detroit Orchestra plays the symphony and then

the fireworks go off at the end and then they

play behind it. And it's one of the most incredible

things ever.

Yeah, that's great.

So anyway, we were there last night, So we get

there about six thirty. There's a couple of pre show

kind of acts and then you know, orchestra starts at

eight thirty. So people are already you know, on the

field and it's bring your own folding chair, right, So

we are looking for a spot to set down four chairs,

and we are looking and of course there's just you know,

like there's there's buffer spots, right, because you know it

is right, you just sort of when you can get

there really super early, you set down your chair and

then as as people sit down their chairs, they sort

of like set it in the middle of the remaining

grassy area. But as it fills in, uh, you know,

tighter and tighter and tighter. You can't just have three

feet or five feet buffer spots, right, You have to

shift and you have to consider that there are more people, right,

because there's three thousand people on the lawn, right, you

can't just have these five foot buffer spots, you know,

as people so people are I'm watching it happen. I'm

watching people shift all the time. People are walking up

and they're going, hey, can you scoot down whatever? So anyway,

so Liz, my wife, says, hey, there's not enough room

for us in this area, and I said, well, no

there is. But if that, if that, there's plenty of

room on the left side of this of these two chairs.

But the problem was that people weren't there. And I

said it was okay, just move their chair down afoot

and Liz goes, you can't move their chair down a foot.

You can't touch their stuff. And I say, first of all,

they'll never know. They're not going to come back and go, hey,

that wasn't the blade of grass. This was sitting on right.

They're never going to know that we moved it one

foot wow? Right?

Yeah.

Now, so before I tell the rest of the story,

would you know have moved it?

No? Why because it's not my stuff. So you're not

going to tell you get yourself shot, dude, it's a

lawn chair. Yeah, don't touch people's stuff.

Okay.

So I disagree with this, Okay, so obviously.

Because I mean, if I'm not touching your car. Yeah, sure,

I'm not touching your you know, your your child.

No, right, I get it.

It's a lawnchair.

So you get to decide what's important to somebody else,

what's a value.

I already know what's a value.

That you are the arbiter of value for other people's possessions.

Too nasty, two nasty twenty year old lawn chairs. Yeah,

I'm allowed to move them. And by the way, by

the way you move them, yes, But here's what I'm saying.

Here's what I'm saying. The reason why I was mad

wasn't because you know, the right to move versus not

the right to move right, I'm not talking about that

because that's a whole nother debate whether or not you

would have moved it as another conversation. So here's what happens.

I say to Liz and to Steven and Toy. I say, well,

they're not gonna mind. I mean, we'll just tell them, Well,

just tell them we moved it, right, because they will

have been closer than to the chairs on the other

side of them. So I picked up and I moved

it probably a foot and a half, and I moved

both their chairs, and so it's obvious that they were

a little closer to the chairs on the other side

of them, but it gave us enough room, just enough

room four chairs in a row, because you can imagine,

like we only needed that much room out of four chairs.

So we set ours down and they came back. And

I thought, instead of them coming back and saying, hey,

did somebody touch our stuff because it looks like they

touched our stuff, I figured I would just be nice

and friendly. You know, picture nineteen fifties, you know, nineteen

fifties culture right where nobody cares and every polite, right,

and so, you know, so they come back and I go, hey, guys,

I said, how do you doing. I said, I hope

you don't mind. I moved the chairs down, just like

a foot, just because we had to give ourselves room. Now,

this is what made Chris mad. Okay, if somebody now

picture this now, okay, if somebody would have said that

to you, yes, hey, I hope you don't mind. We

moved yours down like a foot to make room. How

would you have reacted?

So you weren't there when they left. I wasn't there there, Yeah,

and when when when they got back, you had moved

in on their space and moved their stuff over.

I'm asking you a direct question.

I probably would have raised my eyebrows and not said much.

It just would have said down.

Even though you're on a field with three thousand people

and people are screwing for spots and I and I said, hey, man.

Didn't you tell me that you got there hours early?

Two hours early?

So there was still some other green spots there?

No, no, no, it was there was. There was twenty

five hundred people on the lawn. Okay, yeah, so I'm

and I'm telling you there was no.

Route like like, these are not upfront anyways.

Uh well yeah, yeah.

That's a big space. Yeah, it's a big space. Yeah yeah.

When I used to So I played in those concerts, right,

So I did twelve of them, and when we were

doing them, we would have between ten and twelve thousand

people every night. So they were much larger back in

two thousand and three, four or five, right, yeah, than

they are now. And there was room for everybody. So

if there's only twenty five hundred people on that lawn,

I would have said, because I've been there many times,

I just would have said, sit a little further back.

No, no, no, there's not further back. I would have

had to go all the way back. Sure, so yeah,

all the way back. Okay, so a foot a foot? Yeah,

so I just I just would have sat down. I mean,

I wouldn't have confronted yet on it.

Probably. Okay, so you broke something or put me at

a disadvantage. Sounds like what you're saying put my family

at a disadvantage. Okay, No, it wasn't disadvantage. Yeah.

Anyway, bottom line is is they did say they did

not react very well.

What they say.

The guy said, you touched my chair, and and and

then and then, and then the girl says, uh, what's

the big deal, It's only a foot, and and of

course of course you can do that. But the guy

is like, okay, whatever, and he sits down, and I

just think to myself, like, okay.

He's sending the message to you, don't touch any of

my other stuff. That's she's saying, because he's probably planning

and getting up and going and getting something else, and

now he doesn't want you going through stuff. Stuff.

There's just two lawn chairs.

Yeah, yeah, okay, that's all I'm saying.

Okay, I I'm.

I'm I'm not not disagreeing with him.

Okay, I'm disagreeing with him. Okay, And here's what I'm saying,

regardless of whether you like this stuff, no, she said,

don't touch it.

Oh okay, so you're disagree with both of them.

Yes, correct.

My wife was in my wife amazing. Thank you for that, Chris,

and enjoy your drive home.

My wife. My wife was in your boat, which is

you can't move somebody's stuff just wait?

Yeah yeah, yeah, well you're not able to wait. How

many people did you have to how many people did

you have in your group?

Four?

Okay? Yeah, okay, yeah.

So anyway, all that to say, I would not have

reacted like the guy.

So there wasn't room in the spot you wanted to

sit unless you move somebody over a foot a foot?

Yeah yeah.

So anyway, all that to say, I just think that

that guy shouldn't have reacted that way. It's two nasty,

twenty year old lawn chairs, and I moved you a foot.

It didn't matter.

Okay. Well, on his podcast this week, he's saying, some

old guy come in and move my stuff. He was

my and his host he was not younger today, and

his host is like well, you know, sometimes you just

got to move stuff over.

All right.

Well I'm in agreement with him, Chris.

All right, that's fine, and you know what, we can't

win them all.

Nope, nope.

But I'm gonna go on record and wrap this up

by saying, lighten up people. Yeah, it's not a big deal.

All right.

So were you was it a little scary for a minute?

Like?

Was he hostile? Was he was a little scary? Sometimes

people get paralyzed by fear.

First of all, he Oh, you're trying to do a segue.

That's what you're trying to do. No, he was not,

Nor was I paralyzed.

He wasn't scary. He was okay, because I was going

to say, sometimes when when you get confronted by scary people,

you're paralyzing fear. You know who else was paralyzed? The

guy Jesus passage. Wow, that was a long segment, Chris, Yes, okay. Well,

the good news is it's only a few verses long.

And Matthew chapter nine, verses one through eight, it says

Jesus climbed into a boat man. This is like the

beginning of almost every story we've read this week.

He's in a lot of boats.

It's in a lot of boats. Jesus climbed into a

boat and went back across the lake to his own town.

Some people brought to him a paralyzed man on a mat.

Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralyzed man, be encouraged,

my child, Your sins are forget But some of the

teachers of religious lost said to themselves, that's blasphemy. Does

he think he's God. Jesus knew what they were thinking,

which I love, so he asked them, why do you

have such evil thoughts in your hearts? Is it easier

to say your sins are forgiven or stand up and walk?

So I will prove to you that the son of

Man has the authority on earth to forgive sins. Then

Jesus turned to the paralyzed man and said, stand up,

pick up your mat, and go home. And the man

jumped up and went home. Fear swept through the crowd

as they saw this happen, and they praised God for

giving humans such authority. Wow, Oh, there you go.

I took the Life of Christ with doctor Ray Pratt

at Baptist Bible College, and he had an opinion about

Jesus that was actually very controversial and we had a

massive discussion that lasted multiple days about it, and we

and it actually came about when he was teaching this

story and he said, Jesus knew their thoughts. And then

one of the students had said, well, Jesus had, you know,

the ability to know their thoughts because of his you know,

god like powers, and Ray Pratt says, well, no, he

just he just knew what they were thinking because he

knew their nature. And then and then the debate started like, well, whoa, whoa,

what are you saying like Jesus didn't have supernatural ability

to know people's thoughts and and then all of a

sudden it turned into a massive debate on whether or

not Jesus knew things. And and then doctor Pratt said,

so somebody raised their hand and said, well, wait a minute,

he has he needed to go through Samaria, right, So

so we believe that like he he knew he was

going to meet the woman at the well and Jesus

said and doctor Pratt said, no, I believe he just

he needed to go through Samaria because he needed to

make a point to his disciples that he should go

through Samaria.

Yeah, I think too.

Okay, So doctor Pratt's thoughts were that Jesus suppressed his

god powers, and so whenever it whenever it's his omniscience,

so whenever it's.

So all knowing, all knowing.

Yes, so uh So whenever it says things like this

where Jesus knew their thoughts, I interpret it like, of

course God knows their thoughts because he's God, which means

that he.

But in your mind the logic of that, when did

it begin? When?

What began?

That he knew everything.

When he was twelve?

So so prior to twelve he didn't know everything. Then

suddenly he knew everything.

I mean, it doesn't it doesn't say it doesn't say.

So after twelve, it says that he continued to grow

in knowledge and in favor with God and man.

Sure, because but that can mean anything, can you mean anything?

So he would know everything, but not everything because he

continued to grow.

In his notes, Well, okay, so if you're referring to

the fleshly side of Jesus, he had to be taught

the skills of carpentry, right.

But he knew everything spiritual at twelve. Yeah, he knew

all the spiritual things. He just had to figure out

how to write in cursive. Yes, really, yes? Wow? Okay,

So I don't have a problem with him limiting his

knowledge because he also limited his station, his ability to

be in one place instead of everywhere. Yeah right, so

if he's not you know, he's he's from heaven down

to earth, the the expansive spirit, realm to a physical

body in a physical place, in a physical time. A

god who was outside of time now has limited himself

to time. I don't have a problem with him limiting

his knowledge because that's why he needed to come back.

I vague even then. I don't think it has to

be some mystical thing that he needed to go to

Samaria and order to lead that lady to Jesus. I

think he was leading people.

To agree where he went one hundred percent agree that.

I have no problem with that thought.

And I and I'm going to say it's how I

believe it happened.

Yes, well, I don't peasant, I'm a genius.

There's a callback from one of our segments earlier in

the week. Yeah, yeah, would you rather?

Would you rather? Okay? But the point is, the point

is the point is is that Okay, here's the thing.

So in this debate, I was very much considering everything

you're saying, and here's what I concluded. I very much

agree everything that you said. I have no problem with.

You know, when I get to heaven and we die

and we get to heaven and we learned the answers ultimately,

and Jesus says, nope, I had limited knowledge, I'd be like, oh, okay,

that's very probable, right, it could have very much been

that way, right, however I had I went home and

I did a study, and I wish I had it.

But like I literally looked up every time that Jesus

seemed to demonstrate supernatural knowledge that goes beyond a human

and there was too many, Jeff, there's too many. There's

too many times where Jesus knew what they were thinking.

He anticipated, he had knowledge that he shouldn't have had

as a human, which means like, no, no, no, Jesus had knowledge.

He just had knowledge.

So my angle on that would be that Jesus walked

as a man in the power of the Holy Spirit,

and one of the spiritual gifts his knowledge. Well, then,

so why couldn't this so Well, you're saying his God powers,

and I'm saying the Holy Spirit told him. It's a

difference because I believe. And this is why Jesus says

to his followers, You'll be able to do everything I

can do, and even greater things. Jesus doesn't give them

any limitations with regard to what they saw him do,

not one, not a single one, except those ones that

I did in my God powers. What he's saying is,

under the power of the Holy Spirit, you will be

able to do greater things than me. So this is

why he needed the the this is why he needed

his baptism. This is why he went out into the

wilderness to be tempted. And then he defeats him through

the word of God, and he had the power the

Holy Spirit on him. The Holy Spirit defend descends on

him as a dove. And then so then he enters

into ministry, and everything he did in ministry I believe

he did as a man under the power of the

Holy Spirit. So this is he was the God man.

This is interesting. So here's what you're here's what you're saying.

You're saying this particular story, his knowledge of their thoughts

could have been supernatural. But the only difference is instead

of him relying on his omniscience. It is God giving

him what you and I would get as discernment.

The Holy Spirit right through the Holy Spirit. So that's

what I'm saying, is the spirit.

Gift comes through the Holy Spirit. Yes, So you're saying

through the Holy Spirit, you and if if we're gifted

with the spiritual gift of discernment. Discernment is insight from

God that is spiritual or supernatural that isn't necessarily given

to everybody else. So God gives somebody like a supernatural insight.

And so the Bible literally says knowledge. That's the word.

Okay, knowledge, Okay, okay. So so you're saying almost the

same thing. Yeah, it was, it could have been supernatural.

The only difference is it's attainable for you and me today.

What I'm saying is he did not have that. I

don't believe he had that knowledge because he was God.

I believe he had that knowledge because the Holy Spirit

gave it to him as a man.

But you're also saying that that's possible for you and me.

Yes, yes, because I'm also not God. I'm a man,

but I have the Holy Spirit in me. Correct, That's

what I'm saying. So you're saying he did it because

he was God, he would have those abilities, and I'm saying,

I don't believe. So I believe that he was a man.

As a matter of fact. That highlights it in this

phrase that praise God for giving humans such authority.

Well, so what's so interesting is nobody had that view

in Bible college.

Yeah, it's because they're dumb. So that's a students, it's

a it's.

A new thought. So so side A was he had

he had his god omniscience and God attributes. And side

B was, no, he had human intuition. And that's it. No,

you're saying, no, it was supernatural. But it's only because

the Holy Spirit gave him, gave it to him as

a limited human. And furthermore, Comma, we have that ability today.

So you and I can demonstrate supernatural abilities knowledge discernment

from God given by the Holy.

Spirit as a spiritual gift. Yeah, so what the Bible says,

and I believe that Jesus had all the spiritual gifts,

and I don't believe that there's any Christian who has

all the spiritual gifts.

Oh so in that way, Jesus was a better.

Well, he was perfect he was a perfect he was

he was sinless, he was perfect in every way complete,

So he was the complete man. Yeah, he was the

complete atom is what Romans five would say. Right, So

I think that you and I have Every Christian has

the spiritual gift, right at least one, but there's nobody

who has all the spiritual gifts. But I believe that

Jesus had access to all the spiritual gifts. He was

perfect man.

Yeah, yeah, that is a great topic. Yeah, that was

a great That was a great conversation.

Yeah, isn't so. Anyways, this is what happens here is

they're like, hey, wait a minute, you can't forgive somebody's sins.

That's blasphemy, which, by the way, sometimes you'll watch in movies, Chris,

and you've seen religious people, y'all, blasphemy just because they

said something that somebody said something they disagreed with, right

with their religion, that's right. Blasphemy is claiming to be

God or have God attributes and applying God's attributes to yourself, right,

that's that's blasphemy. Where you are now the judge and

you can curse people to hell or whatever, right so

or that you are are saying, you have some kind

of knowledge that God didn't do what God claimed to do,

that the Holy spirit right where you're holding back the

power of the Holy Spirit something like that. So in

this situation, they're shouting blasphemy because he's claiming to be

able to forgive sins. And Jesus go say, just to

prove to you that I can forgive sins, which is easier,

raise a man to walk because you see me do

that before, which one's easier. He said, to disapprove that

I have authority over both, take up your bed and

go home. And the dude leaps up. I would too. Yeah,

he leaps up and he runs home, and they're all like,

what just happened?

Now. I've also thought this. When Jesus heals somebody, you know,

it's different than going to rehab and then saying like, Okay,

now that you've exercised, you know, take it easy for

a while, right, So in order for him to leap

So think about this, A paralyzed man who's been paralyzed

a very long time has atrophied legs, right, So there's

a physical there's a physicality a formula here where he's

going to have no muscles and and and and so

how could anybody like that leap? And the reason why

is because I believe that when Jesus transformed and healed him,

he was made complete in the in.

The in the healthiest way, total healing.

Yeah, it was total healing. That's that's a better way

to say it, total healing. So how could you go?

How could you leap? It's because now your legs are

like you know, mister universe legs.

Yeah, well maybe not quite like that, but and strong

enough to jump, strong enough to leap, yeah.

Yeah, and so, which is amazing, by.

The way, So can you imagine explain it? Yeah?

Can you imagine feeling like a you know, a youthful man.

Yeah, you know.

So the movie seventeen Again with zac Efron. Do you

know that movie with.

Matthew I'm sure you do though.

Yeah. So, so he becomes seventeen again and he goes,

I feel great, I feel great, and he was reminded

of like what he used to feel like at seventeen. Okay,

everything's a movie.

Great.

You know, here's another thing Jesus uh says, just so

that you know the son of Man has authority to

forgive sins is this the first time that you that

you can think of, that Jesus claims that he has

the authority to forgive people's sins, because because he actually has,

you know, up to this point, done many miracles. He's

caused the lame to walk, and the blind to see,

and the defty here. But I'm not sure that he's

actually made the claim the Son of Man has the

authority to claim to forgive sins. I believe it is.

I believe it's the first time.

Yeah, in the Book of Matthew. I believe it is

for sure. I don't know chronologically if it is, but

I'm almost positive in the Book of Matthew because we're

only nine chapters in and five, six, and seven are

the Sermon on the Mount, and then you know, he

begins his message in chapter four repent of your sins

and turn to God for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.

And prior to that, it's his temptation and his baptism

and that's it. Yeah, So I think it's the first

one in Matthew for sure. Yeah, how great? Yeah, So Jesus, Hey,

I like this conversation.

It was a great conversation, and it's a deep theological

Uh and uh.

And so I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't saying that

you were wrong or have wrong things. In fact, as

I was saying, is I think there's a third rail.

There was a third way to see it.

If anything, you agreed with me, you believe you said

this moment was supernatural knowledge.

I just didn't agree with you that it was his

God powers. That it wasn't his God powers. It was

the Holy Spirit in him. And this was God demonstrating

that the Holy Spirit in you can do far more

than you can currently believe he can do it.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a great conversation.

That's great.

All right, Well, hey, that wraps up our time and

uh we will hopefully see you next time on Monday

on the Bible guys,