Bible Guys Classics: Acts 17 Part 2

Well today is one of my favorite topics from the

apostle Paul, who gives the sermon of all sermons.

This message that he preaches. I heard a message probably

twenty five years ago, radically changed my life, so changed

the direction in my life. So he's Chris, I'm Jeff,

and we're the Bible Guys.

Well, Jeff, Yes, a few weeks ago, we did a

segment throughout the entire week where it's called stump.

The pastor yeah, yeah, those are fun. Yeah.

People had sent in some questions and some comments, and

so we took a few of those and sort of,

you know, picked five of them throughout the week.

Well, we're going to do that again this week.

Oh cool.

So every day this week we're going to take a

question that people had sent in from our last segment.

They'd send in questions. By the way, if you want

to send in a question, please do so at info

at Bible guys dot com.

Right here. So anyway, so here is the first question.

This is sent in by Alice L.

We're going to have like a drum rule.

Yeah, sure, why not. Here's the question.

Do you believe that people who have already died are

waiting in heaven waitings in quotes for those of us

still living, I have started to wonder if perhaps the

resurrection will bring us all there at once, meaning the

same time. Not that people have to wait to get

to heaven, but the nature of time is not understandable

to us when one considers eternity, kind of like waking

up after a long time but not realizing that time

has passed because it sort of did not pass in

your consciousness.

Wow.

So there it is.

What a question.

Well, I've actually heard this a lot.

Yeah. Yeah, Hey. One thing I want to say is

our listeners are really smart people. I don't know why

they listen to us, but they do. Yeah, smart people. Man,

that's a really thoughtful question.

It is. Yeah.

So the question is, you know, are people when they

when they pass away, are they in some sort of

like soul sleep slumber?

Does every to get to have?

And at the same time, I've once heard a pastor

talk about and totally believes and supports the fact that

like the criminal on the cross when it says, you know,

Jesus looks at the criminal on the cross and says,

today you'll be with me in paradise. And that's a

great example because it's one of the only times where

Jesus is speaking of eternity, and he uses the word

today meaning no time in time, and and and then

and then, and this person, uh said, well, we're going

to get to Haven the same exact moment that the.

Thief on the cross will so.

But at the same time, I I sort of lean

toward sat Corinthians, where it says to be absent from

the body is to be present with the Lord.

Christians chapter five, Chapter five, I think is six. He

literally says in the King James, which is what you quoted?

This what I wouldquote, to be absent from the body

is to be present with the Lord. Paul was looking

forward to the day that he's saying. At that point,

he says, I really don't care if I die for

the for the faith or I don't die for the faith,

because if I'm still alive, I'm just gonna keep serving Jesus.

If I die, I'm going to immediately be with him.

That was his thing. So the question that she's asking

is more of a semantical question, because what she's recognizing

here is either way your experience would be you're dead

and your immediately with Christ. Right but what happens in

that intermediary thing, So her question really is more about

time than it is about death. And I think that

so the premise would be in what that pastor you

were talking about, his premise would be the Bible says

to a day is as a thousand years, one thousand

years as a day, which is referencing the idea that

God is outside of time, and which is one of

the most extraordinary concepts that a book that was written

two thousand years ago. Peter actually wrote those words. Who

would have no concept of the idea that time can

be sped up or slowed down, that time is variable.

We didn't even know that till the twentieth century when

Einstein put out the theory relativity. Then all of a

sudden you beginn to realize, Okay, gravity can change time,

speed can change time, distance changes time. So time is meliable,

and God is the creator outside of time. So for him, yesterday, today,

and forever it's the same. He never changes. So in

that then he's not bound by time, and he's not

experiencing time like we are. He's allowing time to play out,

and then he intercedes in time moments. So I think

that The bigger question is how does time work with God.

God's outside of time. So that's why it's not an issue.

And by the way, that's why the cross works two

thousand years ago. Right, the sacrifice is available for me

now in my time, but it's because it's happened and

is happening in God's mind, right, all those things. So

this is super complex. I think it's great. But I

would say that the technical answer to her question is

it's going to be the same experience for you, right

that you are alive, then you die, you're present with

the Lord according to the way Paul says.

Because Paul wrote that for the purpose of comfort, that's

exactly right. And so both views are comforting. Yeah, so

in the goodness is either way we are comforted. Right,

we don't have to worry about it. But which view

do you lean toward? Do you lean toward?

Do we all?

Because you know, there's also the reference in the Bible

where it talks about the resurrection of the bodies coming

out of the graves or of the saints, and so

you know, there's a lot.

Of Yeah, I expect I agree with you on it.

That you know, Paul, so many times when he talks

about death, and when he talks about heaven, it's usually

in response to questions being asked, so he's giving them

as comforting things people are concerned or wondering about it. One,

we just have to know God's going to take care

of us. It's going to be okay if you've placed

your faith in trust in Jesus Christ. Now if you haven't,

the consequences are there's no more opportunity for repentance. So

in this life, while you're breathing breath, you need to

get right with God. But if you've trusted Christ is

your savior, then from that point God is going to

be good and he's going to do the right thing.

I personally believe to be absent from the body is

to be present with the Lord. And I think that

those are individual experiences, not one big group experience. But

he does talk about at the very end there is

this group resurrection, and that's a whole other issue because

now at that point, uh, there's the judgment after that,

and that that's a different thing than what happens to

your spirit.

Yeah, and then also let's not forget that there are

two references of some of Old Testament characters that went

to heaven without dying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, So we have Enoch.

And Elijah, right right? Or is it is Elijah Elijah?

Yeah yeah, I was gonna say.

I always get confused with Elijah and Elijah.

Yeah, and their their buddies and they work together in

the same spot in the Bible.

So Elijah rides up and before us and oh yeah,

Jason for us, that's a good way.

That's the only way I passed any of my Bible

college quizzes about Elijah.

It's like thirty days has September, April, June, and November

thirty one. So anyway, So the bottom line is is,

you know, we have Enoch who just wasn't he he was,

then he wasn't, and then we have a fiery chat

with Elijah. Well, if truly the theory is that we're

in some sort of soul slumber with our bodies, well

that doesn't add up for Elijah or for Enoch. So

so so I believe that that as time plays out,

you know the the you know, the word in the

Greek is chronos, which is linear time as it plays

out for us. Uh, you know, I believe that there's

evidence and references, especially in the Old Testament where they

refer to people being you know, they've died and now

they've gone to the Lord, and that seems to play out,

uh in the chronos linear time.

That's right, right, that's right. So God's not bound by cronos, right,

but we are, and so he chooses to intervene or

interact within the time we're in.

Yeah, yeah, yep, So there's my answer.

That's great, man, That what a good question. And for

those of you that are still awake after that explanation,

we're really glad you're still well. We think it's I mean,

for a Monday, that's that's a heavy topic from Monday.

But I think it's one of those little mind benders.

And again I think we've already said most of the

answers to Stumpy's pastor are we're not exactly sure?

Yeah, yeah, well, which is why there, which is why

there's some questions.

Right, Yeah, but what a good what a good question,

and it's fun. I'm glad that our listeners are thinkers. Right.

It really speaks about Alice in the way that she's

paying attention, So that's great. Well, hey, we are continuing

in the life of Paul the beginning of the First

Church the Book of Acts, and we paused in Acts,

chapter seventeen, and now we're moving into a critical moment

in Paul's style, in Paul's preaching, and we get to

take a peek at how he deals with non Jewish

people and how he presents the Gospel. We saw one

time a while back how he did that. But most

of the time up to this point, we're seeing him

preach in synagogues and we're hearing him talk about Jesus

is the Jewish Messiah. And then this one he pivots

just a little bit. So let's just start in verse

sixteen in chapter seventeen of the Book of Actses says,

while Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was

deeply troubled by all the idols he saw everywhere in

the city. He went to the synagogue to reason with

the Jews and the god fearing gentiles, and he spoke

daily in the public square to all who happened to

be there. He also had a debate with some of

the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. When he told them about

Jesus and his resurrection. They said, what's this babbler trying

to say with these strange ideas he's picked up. Others

said he seems to be preaching about some foreign gods.

Then they took him to the High Council of the city.

Come and tell us about this new teaching. They said,

you're saying some rather strange things, and we want to

know what it's all about. It should be explained that

the all the Athenians, as well as the foreigners and Athens,

seem to spend all their time discussing the latest ideas.

So Paul, standing before the council, addressed them as follows.

Men of Athens. I notice that you are very religious

in every way. For as I was walking along, I

saw your many shrines, and one of your altars had

this inscription on it to an unknown god. This god,

whom you worship without knowing, is the one I'm telling

you about. He's the god who made the world and

everything in it. And since he's Lord of heaven and earth,

he doesn't live in man made temples, and human hands

can't serve his needs, for he has no needs. He

himself gives life and breadth to everything, and he satisfies

every every need from one man. He created all the

nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they

should rise and fall in me to determine their boundaries.

His purpose was for the nations to seek after God

and perhaps feel their way toward Him and find him,

though he's not far from any one of us, for

in him we live and move and exist. As some

of your own poets have said, we are his offspring.

And since this is true, we shouldn't think of God

as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver

or stone. God overlooked people's ignorance about these things in

earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent

of their sins and turn to him, for He has

set a day for judging the world with justice by

the man he has appointed. And he proved to everyone

who this is by raising him from the dead. And

when they heard Paul speak about the resurrection, then some

laughed in contempt, but others said, we want to hear

more about this later. That ended Paul's discussion with them,

but some joined him and became believers. Among them were Dionysius,

a member of the council, a woman named Demrus, and

others with them. Yeah, what a cool one. So this

is Paul at the Areopagus. Is what this is called, right?

Yeah?

Yeah, So that council that he's at is this council

called the Areopagus.

Yeah, And so Luke stayed back in Philippi while Paul,

Silas and Timothy continued on. Remember they were in Thesalonika.

Then when trouble rose in Thesalonika, they fled to Bria. Yes,

when enemies from Thesalonika pursued them, they they Paul set

sail for Athens. And and so there's a couple of

different big categories of observations that I absolutely love about

this this this passage, and and they're sort of like

setting the stage type of things. It's not about Paul's message,

it's about the awesomeness of the situation. So number one,

it starts off by saying Paul was just waiting in

Athens for his friends, and so he wasn't necessarily going

to Athens for a destination to you know, who would

have ever thought that he was going to preach this

amazing message, you know up on the aero Opagus, you know,

which is like a limestone type mountain.

Is at Mars Hill, at Mars Hill, and the council

the Areopagus met at Mars Hill. This is like a

similar to the Roman form just a little bit. It's

where ideas would be exchanged. All the smart leaders of

the village in the town would come there to gather

to talk about big ideas.

Yeah.

And by the way, I have a note here in

my study Bible, and it says that the Epicureans and

the Stoics. The Epicureans were actually more concerned with They

believe that happiness was the most important thing in life,

and the Stoics believe that intelligence and thinking was. So

they were actually very very disciplined, and so they were

actually you know, debating more intellectually.

And so someone was about experience, Yeah, there was about

thoughts and philosophy. Yeah, yeah cool.

And so anyway, so the first observation is this is

that Paul wasn't there on a mission necessarily. He was

there waiting for his friend. That's what the scripture says.

While he was there in Athens waiting for them, he

was bothered. And what ended up happening is is like

his spirit was stirred and then he saw an opportunity

took advantage of it. So I think that the application

of that is really rich for all of us, because

sometimes we find ourselves in a place thinking that.

It's there by accident.

You know, we're just at this bus stop, we're at

this restaurant, and you know, surely, surely nothing great is

going to happen. And you know, with this interaction with

this waiter that comes over and starts talking to us,

you know, it's like, don't ever underestimate the moment where

God places you strategically, and it may not be your

mission to be there, but that's when great things happen

when we least expect it. You know that they'll come

up and surprise us. And then then the second thing

is is that I love the fact that Paul is

perfectly qualified to be the man in this situation. So

think about all his qualifications, all his knowledge.

Is there anybody else who could you know? Was it Luke?

Is it is it Barnabas?

No, these guys aren't qualified like Paul is, right, and

he's a Roman citizen, and he's get so much intelligence,

even quotes one of their own poets, right, And then

how smart is it to say, let me. Let me

tell you, I'm going to honor you. His his strategy. Anyway,

I have more to say, but let's.

Well, no, I love that and I don't need to talk.

I was really riveted by what you were saying. The

idea is I think that you're conveying Paul being perfectly

designed for this. So he was a philosopher, yes he was.

He was a Pharisee who rejected pleasure, right, right, So

so he kind of leaned more on the Stoics than

on the on the Epicurean side of things. But his

culture was a debate culture. Anyways, he came from that

kind of world, right. He was one of the most

educated people. He was widely traveled, which would mean he'd

have a broad worldview as opposed to a narrow worldview.

And he was a Roman citizen from Tarsus, which is

in that area that region. Right, He's not He's he's

closer to home when he's in Athens than he would

be when he was in Jerusalem. Right, So I think

it's very intriguing to me. He's perfect and God will

do that. You our listeners are perfectly designed to reach

people around you that the rest of us would never

be able to reach that's right, and so this was

a divine appointment. Paul just didn't realize it. And I

think we have lots of divine appointments that sometimes we

don't realize what's happening.

Yeah, God places you where you are for a reason.

And by the way, there's another quick reference before we

even get into Paul's message, and that is it says

that he was speaking of the town square and other

versions translated as the marketplace. So he was preaching the gospel,

telling the good News of Christ, telling the story of

Jesus in a public setting. And what's really interesting about

that is that earlier it had said that, you know,

he was preaching in synagogues, so you know, synagogues, it

would be expected to preach, you know, the message of

the good News and synagogues, but to have that same message,

that same ministry in the marketplace is entirely different. And

what I love about that is I believe, for you know,

first and foremost, that the most effective ministry is that

ministry that happens outside of church. And it's it's because

it's unexpected, and it's like whoa, and it's like when

when when somebody who's in your business. You know who

in other words, like not in your business, like in

your you know, in your story, but like who works

in your business.

In your office, in your office.

When when they decide to bring religion or God or

anything like that into that environment, it's it stands out,

makes a lasting impression, way more than if you were

to walk into church, because it's expected to hear something.

Yeah, and he comes into this conversation without being a jerk,

right right, He disagrees fundamentally. His view about their belief

system is one hundred and eighty degrees. Yes, but he's

not a jerk about it. He comes in and he says,

men of Athens, I notice that you're very religious in

every way. And then he compliments him. I'm recognizing your culture.

I see how you're living your lives. And I noticed,

of all these gods that you have, you have this

one pedestal and it doesn't have an idol on and

it just says to the unknown God, let me tell

you about him. Right, so there's something missing in your

life and I can introduce you.

He has them already. Yeah, Yeah, he's hit. They're leaning

in Yeah, because what's.

This foreigner doing talking about our culture and our situation. R.

Yeah, it was very very intelligent, very clever, which which basically.

And he says, whom you worship without knowing?

Right?

He doesn't say you pagans, right, he doesn't say that.

He says, you're intrigued by this god you don't even know.

Let me tell you about it. I'll introduce him to you.

And I love this idea. So then he not only

does he do that, but then he begins to unpack it.

This is the God who created everything. That's the beginning

for somebody who has no concept of scripture, which is

most of our culture today. Most of our culture doesn't

know scripture, you know, twenty five years ago, a lot

of our culture did. Fifty years ago, most of our

culture and new scripture, and now they don't. So we're

starting every time. What There's a God who created the world,

and he made you, and he made you for a purpose.

But we're sinners, we're separated from God. So God solved that. Right.

This is kind of the is.

The purpose of who we why we call ourselves the Bible. Guys,

that's right, because some people might get the impression because

we call ourselves the Bible, guys. We have to be

super deep in theological.

The Bible scholar guys.

The Bible scholar guys, that's not our name.

What's a couple of dudes like to talk about the Bible? Right?

And so?

So if our purpose is to bring literacy and basic understanding,

and not only that, but the purpose of all scriptures application.

That's right.

So you know, there's not there's not you know.

If the goal is just simply more depth and knowledge,

then you can go somewhere else. But but for us,

what we want to do is say, hey, let's talk about,

you know, the Bible and what does it actually mean

and everything else. So, by the way, I just want

to say this too, when it comes down to reading

the Bible and applying it in our lives, I really

think that what you said a moment ago is more powerful.

Then I want to breeze over it. You said, fifty

years ago people knew the Bible. So there's this movie.

It was remade with Elizabeth Hurley called Bedazzled. Do you

remember this movie. No, she ended up with Brendan Frasier.

She plays the devil and she comes up and she,

you know, does this whole thing well, it was actually

a remake Dudley Moore did in the seventies, so and

it was actually really good and it was like super like.

It was almost like Bruce Almighty, you know, Bruce Almighty

could preach. Anyway, here's my point is that they were

making biblical jokes in this nineteen seventies movie as if

the audience, the regular secular audience.

Would laugh.

They were making all these references to the Old Testament.

Well that's just like you know, the Seven Sins, the

seven deadly sins. They are all laughing, and I'm thinking,

who in culture today would ever understand even one tenth

of these jokes, right, because we have lost biblical literacy, right, Yeah.

Well that's happened substantially in our culture. So he doesn't

say shame on you that you don't know these things.

He just starts where they're at. He meets them where

they're at, and then he leads them if we're going

to lead people to Jesus, we have to go and

meet with them first. And then he's not being critical

of their culture. He's exposing to them. You know, you're

missing something, and that's what they're saying. There's this unknown

God I'm missing something. So then he said, let me

introduce you to him. He begins taking them with the

other but I love it he doesn't begin preaching at

them from uh, you know, all these doom and gloom

kind of things. Instead, like in this one, he goes,

as some of your own poets have said, we're his offspring,

and he's using their poetic culture, their artistic culture, right

to go by the way your the heart of your

culture says there's a God and where his offspring? Right right,

So even your people are recognizing that, you know, So

this would be like as bon Jovi said, right, this

is what he's saying here, he's using the artists of

their culture, the poets of their culture, to kind of

prove that their people already kind to think that way.

And what he didn't do is say, men of Athens,

let me start off by saying you're all wrong.

That's right, that's right.

They'd be the equivalent of typing in all caps.

Right, that's right, that's right. So he's using secular art here.

He's using secular poets not as the proof of the message,

but as proof of the need for the message, right right,

This is what he's doing so he's not saying, see, gotcha,

I prove that what he's saying is even your own

people say, your offspring of the of the Creator. Well,

now you need to know the Creator. And by the way,

then he goes into the Creator sent a man and

he died and rose again. Right, so this is this

is where to save us. And some people were very

intrigued by the resurrection, and they stayed on and Paul

was able to unpack it even more and others were like,

you're nuts, and they rejected. But this is one of

the reasons why you know, you and I have we've

talked before about we want to use any tool that

is within culture that's not you know, immoral or unethical

or illegal. We want to use those things to reach

as many people for Jesus as possible. But it's not

about the tool. It's about getting them to Jesus, which

is how he ended. Right. He came to the point

where he says he proved to everyone who this is

by raising him from the dead. He takes him to

the resurrection. He taches them to the core of the Gospel,

and the unbelieved in something didn't.

And there were many believers.

Yeah, and so yeah, so he reached them, and not

because he you know, wasn't relatable, and not because he

threw everything in their face and he was completely, you know,

a different person. He started off where they are and

led them to Jesus.

And one guy, Dionysius, he was a member of the Areopagus.

So maybe this entire he comes to faith. Maybe this

entire interaction was for that guy and the lady named

Damarus and a few others, but the Bible names those

two specifically. This whole interaction was for them, that's all.

And sometimes we do things that where we use the

tools that God's given us in culture or whatever, and

it might not be for everybody in the room, but

it might be for the Dionysius sitting in the room

or the Dameris sitting in the room. And that's perfectly fine.

That's perfectly fine. That's great.

Well, that is a great place to end, and there's

probably more to say about that. Yeah, we'll have to

move on and we'll see you tomorrow on the Bible, guys,