Bible Guys Classics: 1 Thessalonians 2 & 3

Well, today we're talking about a city that I love

to say. It's just fun to say, like, that's.

All a Nikcock, that's all Nika. That's right. So Paul

is in Corinthony. He writes some letters to his buddies

back in Thessalonia.

It's like the word salsa. Isn't that fun to say? Salsa?

Okay? Well, hey he's Chris, I'm Jeff, and we're the

Bible Guys.

By the way, I'm hoping that my my friends out

there know that that was a Jerry Seinfeld reference.

Yes, yes, it's fun to say.

Hey.

Today we're doing Stump the Pastor, which is our third

day in a row. And we took questions and if

you have any questions, by the way, that you want

us to read in future segments, please send an email

or question orthon to info at the Bible Guys dot com.

Yes, is it the Bible Guys dot com?

Right, Yes, the Bible Guys dot com.

Yeah, And so here is the question.

Paying attention Chris.

Yeah, you're welcome to Jeff.

This is from Chris S. And here is what Chris

S says. Does the Bible say anything about cremation and

the scattering or separation to family members of the ashes.

So what is he really asking here, because because we

all know what he's really asking.

Yeah, well what's what's just the surface answer?

Oh well, the quick.

Answer is no, the Bible doesn't say anything.

About it, that's right.

So that okay, okay, let's move on.

Just kidding, but thanks for asking.

But really what he's asking is he's he's referring to

him I think is you know, if if the bodies

are to be resurrected, right in the Book of Revelation

refers to that, then.

If we if.

We, you know, cremate the bodies, then how can it

be resurrected? Uh?

And so yeah, that's yeah.

So so the logic doesn't really track.

Some of the there's a couple of key denominations that

would teach that, you know, Christian denominations that would teach

that cremation is wrong, and you know, throughout Church history

there's been a varying degree of that belief. Historically, Christians

bury bodies under the ground, and that's what we've done.

But there's no ban in the Bible about cremation. There

is in the Laws of Moses. You're supposed to care

well and respectfully care for a dead body. But there's

there's no you know, ban on cremation, right, So the

question comes from like, so the Catholic view would be

you cannot. Typically would be that you cannot cremate, and

the reason would be that then how is that body

going to be resurrected together if it's been dispersed in

some way. Well, the entire concept of a resurrection is

a miracle anyways, right, right, and that God is going

to you know, what about those bodies that have been

you know, dead and gone and decayed for the last

thousand years.

Well, the Bible says ashes to ashes, us to dust.

Dust to dust, we return to dust.

That's right.

So there are.

Bodies that are quite literally not only pure dust, but

they've also been separated by the worms that have eaten them.

And then the worms have scattered, right, and then the.

Birds came and got them and flew away.

Right.

So so the idea of it being scattered, I understand

that concept. It's not a worry with regard to the

resurrection because God's doing a miracle anyways, and even the

bodies that have turned to dust, he will restore. So

when you cremate you're just taking it to dust faster,

that's what you're doing. And in you know, some situations

like when the Black plague was there, or in cultures

and communities where they don't have the ability to dig

in this same way, you know, a very sanitary way

to show respect would be to cremate the body. In

our culture today, it's usually about economics, but still the

same kind of thing. I don't think that there's a

biblical ban on cremation, do.

You No, not at all?

And important, Yeah, And I would let.

Me go further and say, let's let's do Let's give

them a little benefit of doubt. The the intention behind

that rule is is in a good place, So they

would say, hey, let's let's help God out right, let's

let's not let's not cremate the bodies because God says

this is the plan. So the intent is probably coming

from a good place. But the logic is absolutely not

sound at all, because to think that we need to

help God with this miracle in any way, shape or

form or that that violates, you know, something which is

not in the Bible.

So I guess it depends on where you believe the

authority comes from.

There there's no reason to make a rule where there

is no rule, right, right, right. The main rule is

that we're made, you know, we're made in the image

of God, and that we're supposed to respect that and

honor that.

Hey, by the way, let me let me transition into

my personal preference. So I actually perhaps have a maybe

a unique posture than some, not of most, but maybe

of some. But when somebody close to me passes away,

and even if they're buried and not cremated, I actually

don't think that I'll go visit the tombstone of that

person at all, because I actually it's not really important

to me where they died, because that's really not them anyway. Like,

I have such a strong faith that I know that

if I want to, you know, feel close to you know,

let's just say, if my wife were to ever pass away,

it's not important where she died, It's important where she lived.

Yeah, right, I would go to the places where we

lived to feel close. I wouldn't.

I wouldn't go where the earthly vessel was placed, which

is not Liz right and so and so I and

I know that people don't feel that way. That a

lot of people, especially older generations they want to you know,

all the Rocky movies.

You know, he's sitting.

There talking to Adrian and at the tombstone, and it

makes for a good drama on the screen. But also like,

for instance, my mother, she never misses an occasion to visit,

you know, the places where her family are buried, and

she feels very connect it emotionally to them. But theologically,

the problem is in my head, I know better, right.

They're not there. They're not there, right, they're there, you know,

to be absent from the body, to be present with

the lords. So they're not there. I think that one

of the reasons why people are attracted to going to

the gravesite is, you know, we make them the monument

out of granite, you know, one of the things that

almost will never disappear, right right, and and it's kind

of a it's a it's a monument to that person.

And so that's one of the reasons why people would

go back is we we did it on purpose, for

a permanent remembrance even when we're gone. We put their name,

we put their dates, We made some you know, told

a little bit of their story, father, husband, brothers, you

know whatever, and we put that on there because we

want everybody to always remember this person. So there's nothing

wrong with going back to the gravesite. So said, they're

not there anymore, right, right, they're not there anymore. They're

in heaven if they're if they're Christians and so they're

with God. They're not in the sad death moment. They're

in the resurrected right heaven moment.

That's why it doesn't make any sense to me.

They say, well, I went to the cemetery to visit

Mom today, and I'm thinking, well, that's the opposite of

where mom is. Right.

In fact, she was everywhere except.

In that area, because she was never in that area, right,

unless she was going to visit somebody else.

When she was alive.

Sure.

So so for me, it's just like, if you want

to feel close to somebody, go where they live, not

where they passed.

And I understand, But it's a place of memory. Yeah,

if you think of cemetery as as a place of death,

then you're right. If you think of a cemetery as

a place of memory, it's not inappropriate.

It's like a library. Well, it's never inappropriate. It's never

in appropriate. It's I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

I'm just saying that's why I introduced it and saying

it's a unique thought. And so consequently, because of that,

I told my wife, I said, save the money, just

cremate me and just spread me, spread me out somewhere

fun and then that way, that way, like whenever you

go to that place or the ocean or something like that,

like just do that, save the money.

And do it.

Yeah, my dad said that if he dies while that

if he died while they were still young, he wanted

my mom to bury him like six inches underneath the

grass in the backyard, like spread eagle, because that way

her new husband would have to mow over top of

where he was right and it would be the shape

of him, like waving.

Wow, that is a heck of a thought.

Yeah, yeah, isn't that terrible, sir? Yeah, my dad was

the same, but he had kind of the same idea.

I'm so convinced of heaven. I'm so convinced that there's

life after death that you know, be respectful with the body,

but don't be obsessed with that body, because that body

is not where I'm at. This body isn't home. Matter

of fact, in first Corinthians. Paul says, this body is

just a temporary tent, right, right, right, So anyways, that's good.

So hey, let's move on. We are taking a jump

now out of the Book of Acts for just a

little while. We paused in the middle of Acts seventeen

and while Paul was in corinth Now he's met Priscilla

and Aquilla. He's begun leading a bunch of people to Jesus,

Phoebe and Justice and these guys. Now he pauses, and

in fifty two AD whatever it is, he's writing now

back to the Christians that he had led to Jesus

in Thessalonaika just a few years before. And so during

this time he writes two books. He writes a letter

to them, they write a letter back, and then he

writes a reply letter. So we're going to start off

in first Thessalonius chapter two. First Thessalonius Chapter one is

mostly greetings, and so we'll pick up with the substance

of it. First of all, he reminds them of his visit.

He says, you yourselves know, dear brothers and sisters, that

our visit to you was not a failure. You know

how badly we've been treated in Philippi just before we

came to you, and how much we suffered there. Yet

our God gave us the courage to declare his good

news to you boldly in spite of great opposition. So

you can see we were not preaching with any deceit

or impure motives or trickery. For we speak as messengers

approved by God to be entrusted with the good news.

Our purpose is to please God, not people. He alone

examines the motives of our hearts. Never once did we

try to win you with flattery, as well as you

well know, and God is our witness that we were

not pretending to be your friends just to get your money.

As for human praise, we've never sought it from you

or anyone else. As apostles of Christ, we certainly had

a right to make demands of you, but instead we

were like children among you, or we were like a

mother feeding and caring for her own children. We loved

you so much that we shared with you not only

God's good news, but our own lives too. Don't you remember,

dear brothers and sisters, how hard we worked among you,

night and day. We toiled to earn a living so

that we would not be a burden to any of

you as we preached God's good news to you. Remember,

Paul is a tench maker. That's right, You yourselves are

our witnesses, and so is God. That we were devout

and honest and faultless toward all of your believers. And

you know that we treated each of you as a

father treats his own children. We pleaded with you, encouraged you,

and urged you to live your lives in a way

that God would consider worthy, for he called you to

share in His kingdom and glory. Therefore, we never stop

thanking God that when you received his message from us,

you didn't think of our words as mere human ideas.

You accepted what we said as the very word of God,

which of course it is, and this word continues to

work in you who believe. And then, dear brothers and sisters,

you suffered persecution for your own countrymen. In this way,

you imitated the believers in God's churches and Judea, who,

because of their belief in Christ Jesus, suffered from their

own people, the Jews. For some of the Jews killed

the prophets, and some even killed the Lord Jesus. Now

they have persecuted us too. They fail to please God

and work against all humanity as they try to keep

us from preaching the good news of salvation to the gentiles.

By doing this, they continue to pile up their sins.

But the anger of God has caught up with them

at last. Dear brothers and sisters, after we were separated

from you for a little while, although our hearts never

left you, we tried very hard to come back because

of our intense longing to see you again. We wanted

very much to come to you, and I Paul tried

again and again, but Satan prevented us. After all, what

gives us hope and joy and what would be our

proud reward and crown as we stand before our Lord

Jesus Christ, he returns It is you. Yes, you are

our pride and joy. Finally, when we could stand it

no longer, we decided to stay alone in Athens, and

we sent Timothy to visit you. He's our brother and

God's co worker and proclaiming the good news of Christ.

We sent him to strengthen you, to encourage you in

your faith, and to keep you from being shaken by

the troubles you were going through, but you know that

we are destined for such troubles. Even while we were

with you, we warned you that troubles would soon come,

and they did, as you well know. That is why,

when I could hear it bear it no longer, I

sent Timothy to find out whether your faith was still strong.

I was afraid that the tempter had gotten the best

of you, and that our work had been useless. But

now Timothy is just returned, bringing us good news about

your faith and love. He reports that you always remember

our visit with joy, and that you want to see

us as much as we want to see you. So

we've been greatly encouraged in the midst of our troubles

in suffering. Dear brothers and sisters, excuse me, I got

all choked up because you have remained strong in your faith.

It gives us new life to know that you are

standing firm in the Lord. How we thank God for you.

Because of you, we have great joy. As we enter

God's presence night and day. We pray earnestly for you,

asking God to let us see you again to fill

the gaps in your faith. May God, our Father and

our Lord Jesus Christ, bring us to you very soon.

And may the Lord make your love for one another

and for all people grow and overflow, just as your

love for you, our love for you overflows. May He,

as a result, make your heart strong, blameless, and holy

as you stand before God, our Father, when our Lord

Jesus comes again with all his holy people. Amen. So

Paul is like, oh, I miss you guys so much.

Yeah, And he said, you know a couple of different staples,

which is, you know, he remembers them with joy. And

I think the thing that stands out for me in

this passage is the pastor's heart that he has. Yes,

So he just loves his people so much.

I think that's why we read two whole chapters there.

Yeah.

Right, It's one big long thing of him saying, my

heart for you. This pastoral heart is so significant.

And even though that there's a you know, most of

our listeners, in fact, almost all of them probably don't

have the title of pastor as a profession like you

and I might. But at the same time, we're all pastors, right,

so we're all ministers. The Bible says we have the

priest of the believers, which means that you may not

necessarily have the title pastor or the role of the

responsibility in the church, but you may be given the gift,

the spiritual gift called pastor.

Or to care and to support and encourage other believers. Yes,

that's the job of every believer.

Yes, And so having a pastor's heart doesn't necessarily mean title.

So there are so many different people who have a

better pastoral gift than I do. Out of all the

you know, spiritual gifts that.

God has given me.

I do have a pastor's heart, but it's but I

have other gifts that are stronger. And so anyway, all

that to say this, I resonate with the responsibility and

the role that Paul has. He loves his people. And

I got to tell you, anybody who is mentored and

you know, and they're so proud of their faith, you know,

especially if it's spiritual.

You me enter them in a spiritual way and they grow.

Man, your heart just bleeds for them and you want

to see them grow and do it's best.

So I resonate with Paul here.

Yeah, and you can see how proud he is of them. Yes,

he was worried about them like a father. This is

so family. It sounds like he's talking about his family.

And this is the reason why I wanted to read

these two chapters now that I want to. I remember

looking at it today going, why are we reading two

old chapters?

Yeah, well but thirteen verses of chapter three, But.

Well that's the whole chapter though, Oh yeah it is. Yeah,

So I the reason why I wanted to do that

was because it's so clear that Paul's view of the

church and of other Christians was a family view, and

for so many of us we miss out on the

real idea of the church, thinking that the church is

an or organization that owns a building that we go

to to have religious ceremonies done for us and so

our children can learn a little bit about the Bible

in Sunday school and then we leave, so we consume

that product and then we leave. And Paul is not

talking about buildings. He's not talking about programs. Right, Well,

there weren't There weren't any church buildings, and I think

Ephesus was the first one in like two or three

hundred years after Jesus. So so he's not talking about

those things. He's talking about the family of God. How

much he thought of them, as as like a father,

as a worried mother, as brothers. I sent your brother

Timothy to check on you. I was worried that the

enemy was going to steal away your faith. But no,

I'm so proud of you.

And you remembered our visit with joy. Yes, and our

time spent together. Don't you remember the memories?

And I know it's tough, but you can make it.

Yes, we worked side by side, right, and we shared

our lives. He literally said, our share our life.

If that is not your experience in the church, you're

missing it. You're missing it.

Right.

If you think that church is a Sunday morning concert,

an amazing message by Jeff or a pretty good message

by Chris.

Wow, Like I didn't know that was.

If you think, if you think that that that church

is just you know, soft chairs and bright lights or

amazing children's teachers. All those things are great. They're great,

hopefully they enhance your experience. They're just not the point.

They're not the point at all. The point is believers,

we don't go to church. We are the church right

right and so, and.

By the way, let's just clarify that. So the word

church was never meant to describe a building. That's right, Everett,

the word church actually means the people.

That's right.

Call that group of people the ecclassy or the gathering. Yeah.

Well, if you want to have a little word history,

ecclasea means means the called out assembly of God's people.

It's the assembly of God's people together that God called

to faith to him. The word church comes from I

think it's a Germanic word and it means it means building,

so it comes from kurch is the word. So it's

kind of funny we use the wrong word. We don't

use anything that even references the Bible. And maybe that's

why we miss out on God's intent. It's because we're

using a word to talk about a building rather than

God's intent to talk about an assembly of people, a

family of people. Right, And so words really matter, they do.

And so you know, you don't go to church, we

are the church. And so I think that it's a

very important distinction for us to desire what God intended.

And so this is why we read I don't know

thirty somethings script versus their thirty three verses is to

have an understanding. There's so much more to being a

group of Christians than just setting through a service. And

this is what he's writing about there. It's just it's

so powerful.

Yeah, yeah, and so you know, I just want to

say this. It's the reason why we have other opportunities

outside of Sunday Morning. It's the reason why we have

opportunities to join small groups because we believe that life

happens in circles, not just in rows, and in circles

for small groups, you know, to connect with one another.

And by the way, they don't have to be sanctioned

heritage church small groups. You know, you could be meeting

with a group of men, for instance, at Panera Bread

every Saturday morning and it's just a sort of organic

type of meeting. And what you do is you sit

around and you sharpen each other spiritually. Well then you

sort of have that need in your life filled, right, as.

Long as you're living life together.

But yeah, the church is supposed to edify one another,

supposed to you know, support one another, pray for one another,

bury each other's burdens, assist one another, and to encourage

and sharpen each other.

You're never going to grow into what God has planned

for you sitting in rows looking at the back of

other people's heads while somebody stands up on stage and

lectures you. It's never going to happen. You're only going

to grow not looking at the back of other people's heads.

You're only going to grow shoulder to shoulder, armed arm,

face to face with other believers. Right, That's the only way.

And so I think that this is partly he's not

calling them out to behave that way. I think it's

a call out to us to recognize what it could be. Yeah,

and so you have to be intentional about it. But

the proverb says, if you want to have friends, you

have to be friendly, right, right, So put yourself out there,

decide you're going to pursue those kind of relationships in

the church. Don't expect that they're going to come to you.

Go and get them, Get on a ministry team, get

in a group, find ways to engage with other people

other than just sitting in a row looking at back

as somebody else's head while somebody stands up there and

lectures you.

And by the way, that doesn't mean that you're not

allowed a season to be anonymous in a church, or

maybe you're you know, maybe you through a really bad

church experience and you just want to come in and

slip in and slip out and just heal. And the

reason why I say that specifically is because I know

so many people over the years where I've seen them

in the differency. Like my good friend Dan. I just

I mentioned him from the stage just a few weeks ago.

I just had dinner, in fact with his best friend

just two nights ago, and we actually talked about Dan

and Dan when he first came to my church, I

had said, man, you're just like you're somebody that we

want to use, like I could use you as a

volunteer in X, Y and Z. And He's like, listen, dude,

we came from our church and we were burned so bad.

They had a bad church experience. He said, we just

wanted to come and just heal and just sit and

listen and just absorb. And so for like two or

three years he did that. But then when he was ready,

he jumped in and Buddy, I'm telling you, he was

one of the It's like he might as well have

been a staff member, you know, but he wasn't paid

at all, so he was like a super volunteer, and

there are seasons I think of our lives where you

know it's okay to you know, necessarily remain anonymous, just

as long as you fill that need in your life.

Always what the church is supposed to fill with the

church is designed for, which is to be around other believers,

to share your life with for the purpose of edification,

because that is the Church. Well, that's a good place

to end and we will see you next time on

the Bible.

Guys,