Bible Guys Classics: 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5

Well today, just like the words of Rafiki the Lion King,

and also in the Lord of the Rings and also

the Apostle, Paul, we're talking about the return of the King.

Okay, so there are a lot of questions that that's

the only things we're asking what happens when people die?

And Paul tells us, so that's what we're talking about today.

He's Chris, I'm Jeff, and we're the Bible Guys.

So, Jeff, we are wrapping up our segment for all

week called Stump the Pastor.

And these have been good questions.

They have really been good, great questions. So we've just

invited people to ask questions. If they have a question

they want us to answer, we're going to invite you

also to send your question to info at the Bible

Guys dot com. And if you want to send us

a question, we will consider that and perhaps feature.

It in a future segment. Sure, and we still have

a few that several that we haven't answered. Well, for

sure we do. But man a Life sent him to us.

We love sorting through it trying to figure out what

to say next.

Yes, so this comes from Joni p And so she

writes this question, do people in heaven know what is

happening on Earth.

Oh, that's a good question. It is, yes. So there's

so many complexities on that. First of all, we both

have to say, and this is the traditional answer on

Stump to pastors, is what Chris, Well.

There's no evidence. So the ultimate answer is we don't know. Yes,

And only because it's not because we don't know the

answer is because the answer cannot be known, right, right, But.

You can take the preponderance of evidence, yep, can point

to an answer. And I think that so to be clear,

Jesus taught that there's consciousness after death. He talks about

the rich Man and Lazarus. They're both conscious, they're both aware,

and they have memories of life on Earth. He doesn't

talk about them knowing specific happenings after their death on Earth.

He doesn't talk about that, but they're aware of Like

the rich Man said, I have five brothers, right, So

he was aware of his past life yep, and he wants,

you know, Jesus to send somebody to go rescue or

whatever his brothers. Yeah, so's there's that. But there's no

indication that people are standing in heaven and watching us,

unless you take the one phrase in Hebrews that says

that we're surrounded by this cloud of witnesses. Depends on

what you think that means. I believe that the cloud

of witnesses are Their testimony is the same as our testimony,

that we're all agreeing that there's one faith in Christ.

Because in that context, he had just finished the writer

of Hebrews, who we don't know who it is, He

had just finished listing all the people of the past

and their faithful actions. That's correct, saying that their actions

had proven their faith and so so, in other words, surrounded.

By similar people like us. This is probably what that

phrase is saying, which I think they're watching in heaven

in the stadium, watching and other focused on Earth right right.

What I was going to say is they're not onlookers necessarily.

There you go, right, So the answer.

Is we don't know.

But the answer, the bigger answer is there is no

way either there's no evidence either way saying either they

do or they don't. But logic and reasoning suggests that

they would have no knowledge of what's happening as it's happening.

I would have a hard time believing heaven would be

heaven if you were sitting up there watching your friends

and family sin and die and destroy their lives and

in some cases and be rather well, every time you sin,

you're destroying your life from what it could be stright

every sin is so if you could sit up there

and watch your friends sin, destroy their lives, bring more

death and destruction, because this planet is only a shadow

of what God intended. So they're in paradise, absolute and

total perfection, the pure joy of existence, in the presence

of God, living in a perfect society. So to look

back at this very weak shadow of the perfection of

what God had planned and then watching us be ravaged

by the things that are killing us, it would not

be heaven for them. It would be perpetual grief. Because

we do know God grieves over the consequences of sin

and death in our lives. So if God's grieving, it

wouldn't be heaven if all of Heaven was sitting around

weeping over the devastation in our life. So I think

that there is I would think that there's a separation

between between us where their conscious and aware that we exist.

I don't know that they're peeking in on all the

things we're doing.

Yeah, so if we measure it also up against what

we know about heaven. So in heaven, there's no more tears, right,

there's no more night, there's no more sorrow, there's no

more pain. And so then that draws us to one

of two conclusions. Either A, there's a separation because humans

experience none of those things because they can't see the

sorrow and the pain and the death. Romans A tells

us we were living on Earth under the bondage of

sin and decay.

Right, So it's either one of those two things.

It's either that that they can't see, or somehow God

has made it impossible for us to feel those things

or experience those things as we witness death.

And the kay.

Yeah, yeah, And so the logical thinking between those two

is the first one.

Yeah. So that passage revelation, the Last Revelation twenty one,

it's talking about the new Heaven and the new Earth.

But what we do is we kind of assign that

concept of heaven, no tears, no grief, all those kinds

of things to the current existence of heaven, which would

make sense. And I just don't believe that they're looking

in on all the things we're doing right, The glories

of heaven would be far more interesting than any of

the brokenness on earth.

So to get more specific, when somebody dies and you're

at their funeral and then somebody says, well, he's looking

down on us right now.

Yeah, I think it's a nice, heartwarming thing for us.

I don't think they're participating in that. Yeah. Yeah. And

then people talk about, you know, my dad intervened for me,

or I pray to my mom on a regular basis,

those are you communicating and it's for you, But there

is no indication. The Bible says there's only one mediator

between God and man. That's man Christ Jesus. So there's

only one person we pray to. So that's a whole

other issue. Yeah.

So I would just say this for those people who

have lost loved ones who are just up, Yeah, yeah

you did. For those people who have lost loved ones,

and it is a very personal thing. Yes, to make

a statement or even a thought or even suggest that

that loved one is no longer looking down at them

is a very jarring thing for them.

And they refuse to accept it.

Sure, So I would just say this, keep in mind,

all we're doing is giving our opinion, because the ultimate

answer is we.

Don't know, right. Nobody knows what we're doing.

Is saying like it makes sense this way, but other

than that, the answer really is we don't know, right.

Yep.

Okay, So we can move on, and we're going to

segue into First Corinthians.

Chapter four parlss Selonians is where I'm going to be.

What did I say? That's funny? I'm from First that

Salonians for Yeah, well thanks, I appreciate you.

Uh, And we're going to be reading through chapter five,

verse number eleven.

Man, I got all choked up. Yeah, yeah, I swallowed

something weird. No, I'm fine now that shod Here we go,

and now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to

know what will happen to the believers who have died,

so you will not grieve like people who have no hope.

For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised

to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns,

God will bring back with him the believers who have died.

We tell you this directly from the Lord. We who

are still alive, and when the Lord returns, will not

eat him ahead of those who have died, for the

Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout,

with the voice of the archangel and with the trump

call of God. First the believers who have died will

rise from their graves. Then together with them we who

are still alive and remain, and the earth will be

caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in

the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.

So encourage each other with these words now concerning how

and when all this will happen. Dear brothers and sisters,

we don't really need to write you, for you know

quite well that the day of the Lord's return will

come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night. When people

are saying everything is peaceful and secure, then disaster will

fall on them as suddenly as a pregnant woman's labor

pains begin, and there will be no escape. But you

aren't in the dark about these things, dear brothers and sisters,

and you won't be surprised when the day of the

Lord comes like a thief. For you or all children

of the light and of the day, we don't belong

in darkness and night. So be on your guard, not

asleep like the others, stay alert and clear headed. Night

is the time when people sleep and drinkers get drunk.

But let us who live in the light be clear headed,

protected by the armor of faith and love, and wearing

as our helmet the confidence of our salvation. For God

chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not

to pour out his anger on us. Christ died for

us so that whether we are dead or alive, when

he returns, we can live with him forever. So encourage

each other and build each other up, just as you

are already doing so. He tells us all these things

not to scare us. He tells us he sings to

encourage us.

Right, and so my life application Bible has the events

of Christ's return. When Christians have often disagreed about the

events that will lead up to the return of Christ,

there has been less disagreement about what happens once Christ

does return. There's listing five things. Number one, Christ will

return visibly with a commanding shout. Number two, there will

be an unmistakable call from an angel. Number three there'll

be a trumpet fanfare such as never has been heard.

Number four Believers in Christ who are dead will eyes

again from their graves, and number five, believers who are

caught up or excuse me, believers who are alive will

be caught up in the clouds to.

Meet the Lord. So what what what a thought.

Thinking about the visual and the actuality of those things

of Jesus coming back, and then those rising from the

grave and those currently on earth who are alive during

Christ's return will be caught up in the air. And

we've tried to imagine that so many times, haven't we.

If you think, have you ever heard those radio preachers

about revelation.

I mean they're just they TV preachers.

I mean those guys, they could they could spend their

entire lifetime dissecting the Book of Revelation and the things

to come, and it would just be as complex as

it's very interesting.

Oh, it's extremely interesting, and God gave it to us

for our benefit. But prophetic words are always veiled on

the front end and clearer on the back end, always right,

So well, I'll tell you what that is a great thought? Yeah,

So God doesn't give us the specifics of precisely, and

so the beast's name is going to be Bob Johnson, right,

And he was born in nineteen eighty five doesn't do that,

but he does just give you descriptions of things that

when it happens, you're gonna look back and go, oh,

that's what he was talking about. Almost all prophecies are Oh,

that's what's talking about.

Well, think about all the complex prophecies with Christ.

Oh yeah, Christ coming the first time we've read through

the Book of Acts up to this point, where many

times Paul would say, and so that's what David meant

when he wrote, But when I read that passage it's beginning.

If I'm just reading through it, I'm not thinking prophetic Jesus,

I'm thinking, Oh, that's very interesting. And then Paul goes,

that's why God gave us that verses so we would

know what the messiabi like. Or when the Ethiopian eunuch

was writing in his chariot, and he says to Philip,

he said, hey, is this writer writing about himself?

Right?

Because he's reading out the Book of Isaiah. Is he

writing about himself? He is writing about somebody else? And

Philip goes, oh, let me tell you he's writing about Jesus.

Let me tell you about Let me tell you a

story that makes that make sense.

Right, so prophecy isn't always intuitively clear, but once it happens,

you go, that's what God meant, and then it is clear.

Right, That's a great thing to keep in mind. But

we do know these these events happen in this order.

We do know that Paul is you know, giving this

to us to.

Urage us back. You're going to hear a shout in

the air, right, You're going to hear the voice of

the archangel. There's going to be a trumpet blast right

and then.

And I think we've referenced this before, back when we

were doing HG Daily that you know, those billboards that

try to predict the exact time of the coming of Christ.

And I've even had friends, like friends that I've called

from Georgia and this guy, a really good friend of mine.

His name's first names Chris as well, and he's like, hey,

I got to tell you something about you know, the

dates on the calendar and what's going to happen. And

he went on for thirty minutes trying to piece everything together,

boo boo boo, boo boo boom, And he says, you

know what that means? I said, what And he goes

that in thirteen days, Jesus is coming, well, and I

didn't know what's saying.

And he's like, he's like, dude, didn't you hear me?

Why aren't you responding?

And I wanted to say because it's wrong, because how

do you know it's wrong?

Because you think it's right?

Right, And it says that no one will know, so

it come like a thief in the night.

Nobody knows the day. But when they asked when the

disciples as Jesus, Jesus said he didn't know, only his

father in heaven. No, that's right, right, that's right. So

that's so funny. So Paul, in verse one of chapter five,

he goes, now, concerning how and when all this is

going to happen to your brothers, I don't really need

to write to you. And he said, listen, your children

of the Light, live like you're awake, and you'll recognize

it when it's happening. And everybody else is going to

come like a thief in the night for them, they're

going to be shocked by it. So he said, just

keep your eyes open. It's coming, right. But in the meantime,

he's trying to encourage them that the resurrection is real.

This is. Do you remember when we were reading talking

about Paul at the Areopagus at Mars Hill. Yeah, and

they're all like, they're they're intrigued by his message until

he starts talking about the resurrection, and they lead and go,

we want to talk about this resurrection thing more because

they didn't have a concept that there was life after death, right,

and so that was a mind blowing concept to them.

So you know, he's writing to Thessalonians who are from

the same region of the world, and they would have

had a lot of the same culture, and so he's

going back to them and encouraging them, don't worry. The

resurrection is real, and here's some of the mechanisms they're

going to happen. You'll recognize it when it happens.

And to be clear, you're talking about the resurrection of.

The saints, resurrection of saints, that's correct, not the resurrection

of Jesus had already happened.

Right, But Paul was talking about the resurrection.

Of all of us, the believers. Yeah, the believership. Yeah.

And this is at the end, right, this is at

the end of time is as we know it. God's

bringing this all to a close. And it's whether you're

before the whether you believe in a rapture, you believe

before or after what would because of the traditional seven

year tribulation, whatever, those things. We're not going to argue

that those issues. But what he is saying is this

is when God's starting to wrap it up, He's getting

ready to put a bow on it, and he pulls

all the Christians off the planet. Yeah.

So I remember the first time that I, you know,

I became a Christian as a teenager, and.

The first time I even heard.

Of the idea that Jesus will come again, that he ascended,

you know, back in the Book of Acts, which we're

currently in the study. He ascends and then he's you know,

the angel says he'll return in the same manner. Why

are you standing gazing? He's going to return in the

like manner, and nobody knows exactly what he's coming, but

he is coming. I remember hearing that for the very

first time, and the sentence that was spoken to me

in that moment is that we should be living every

day as if he's.

Coming right now.

Today's the day, today's the day, and so and every

time when when somebody would say, well he may come tomorrow.

And then somebody in my church would say, well, why

wouldn't you say he may come today? Because and that's

really is the right line of thinking.

Right, Yeah, I believe that God didn't tell us specifically

when He's coming, so we wouldn't be lazy. Right, It

could be any moment, right, So live with anticipation and

be aware the fact that, Hey, when you're choosing not

to share the gospel with your friend, you say, I'll

tell him some other day. Well, you're choosing not to

engage in spiritual conversation with your family members, I'll do

it another day. What we're thinking is there's more time,

and he's saying be diligent and live like today's the

last day because the Lord could come back at any moment.

I also say that's the reason why we should eat

dessert first. Jesus is coming back at any minute, right, right,

last thing I want to do is be standing and

having going. Well, I'm glad the last thing I had

was at broccoli, but right, so on dessert.

So, by the way, we were in your office yesterday

with the elders elders meeting, did you eat that cookie?

I did? That was too much chocolate for me. Oh,

it was glorious. It was too much.

For me when I it was just a regular chocolate.

Are we friends from Chick fil A? Yeah, we talked

previously on the podcast. Those are some of the best

cookies available. Yeah.

So I was eating the cookie. I was about halfway through,

going I can't believe how much chocolate.

There isn't this if there wasn't enough chocolate, There's never

too much chocolate. Hey, so listen, Jesus is coming back

at any minute, so live like it. Little Bible trivia

for our listeners.

Huh, why is it the Bible? It tells us why.

I'm just I know you know the answer. Why is

Jesus tarrying? What is the reason given why he tarries?

Well, he's not willing that any would perish, but that

always come to repentance. He's waiting because there are still

people who have not yet heard. Yeah, so about forty

percent of our planet today has not yet heard or

does not have access to the gospel. Ninety four percent

of the planet has access to Coca cola today, but

forty percent of the planet does not have access to

the Gospel yet. And so you want to know when

Jesus is going to return. All of your wild eyed

you know Christian friends who want to tell you they

know for sure when Jesus is coming back. I can

tell you this. Jesus will not come back while people

have not yet heard, right, That's that's it. As a

matter of fact, Jesus says in Matthew Matthew that around

the Throne of God there will be people from every

single language group that uses the word logoss. Every single

language group will be around the throne. And right now

we know that there's sixteen seventeen hundred, maybe closer to

three thousand, a little closer to three thousand language groups

that still have no Gospel representation at all. So we're

closing the gap. It used to be like seventeen thousand,

and now we're getting oh, you know, I take it back,

it's seven thousand. So it used to be seventeen thousand.

We're down to about seven thousand language groups that still

don't have, as far as we know, a believer, a

Bible or a body of Christ. So you want to

know when it's going to happen. It's after the fact

that every language group will have had the access to

the Gospel so it'll be someday like that. So we've

got work to do. And this is why it doesn't

tell us specifically there's work to be done. Don't be

lazy and just sit back. Go while I got it,

and he said, be diligent, your children of the light,

So live in the light. Don't be lazy and drunk

and sleeping like people of darkness. Instead, be diligent. And

you know you're working in the daylight. I know that

you're cheing. Dad said, make hay while the sunshines. That's right.

So listen.

I know you don't often talk about this, but you

are chairman of the board for an organization called TTI.

Yeah, the Timothy Timothy Initiative.

So if we have a listener out there who actually thinks, hey,

I would like to support this cause, give a thirty

second elevator speech on what is it that they are doing,

since it's so closely related to everything you just said,

and how they can find them to maybe be a

part of it.

So the Timothy Initiative makes disciples, who makes disciples and

plants churches that plant churches around the world. So we're

not planning churches like you would think normally Traditionally you

got to build a building and have a steeple and

all that kind of stuff. These churches are springing up

under Banyan trees out in the bush, They're springing up

in stairwells in Bangalore, India, wherever. It's little clusters of

Christians and places that have never had Christianity around the world.

We're specifically targeting the least reach and the unreached people

on the peoples on the planet that are in that

group of people have never had the Gospel in two

thousand years, which.

Is why you said you you have made a dinner.

We've made a dent. Yeah, you bring it down to

seven thousand.

Yeah. Keep this. It's not just us. There's lots of

organizations that have been targeting these what you would call unreached,

unengaged people groups. And so for about four hundred dollars,

we can plant a church. We can get a church

started within a year. That so train a church planter.

Within a year, they'd have twenty to twenty five brand

new believers. It costs about four hundred dollars to get that

training done. If you're interested in learning more about it,

TTI online dot org is the website TTI online dot org.

And right now we have about one hundred and sixty

one thousand men and women being trained to make disciples

around the world and in forty four of the most

difficult countries in the world for planning and starting new churches.

And do you know how many churches that we've planted

through TTI?

Just last year heard a church? Our church?

I don't know, or I I just want an incredible

stack because there's so many of them.

Oh yeah, So the worldwide there's been over two hundred

fifty thousand churches planted. There's a couple million Christians. Last

year our church helped start over a thousand churches. That's

awesome financially Umian. Yes, that's right, that's awesome.

So very cool. Well, hey, listen, that's probably a great

place to end. And if you want to and get

involved in that, that go there. Do you have any

last words?

But Jesus said, when his mother came and found him,

he's a boy in the temple. Yeah, And she said,

how come you, you know, stayed away from me and

your father. And Jesus replied, and he said, Mom, didn't

you know that I'd be about my father's business And

I think that that's our call now, is that we're

supposed to be about our father's business. He said, it's

none of your business. When I'm coming back, your businesses

go tell people that I'm coming back, right, And so

we just need to be about the father's business.

That's great, all right, Well, we'll see you next time

on the Bible, guys,