Bible Guys Classics: Revelation - Eternity

So, Jeff, do you want to know my choice?

Yes?

Hell, no Heaven?

Yes, Yes, there you go.

I'm saying no to hell and I'm saying yes to heaven.

Do you like what I did there?

That's a good idea. Well, that's what we're talking about

today for sure. He's Chris and I'm Jeff, and we're

the Bible guys. Okay, so it can be a big

one today.

Yeah, yeah, talking about Hell is always a big thing.

But before we get into that, we have a fun

little segment at the beginning that is entitled this or that,

which is really fun. Would you rather Yes? It's a

form of would you rather yes? And it's it's formed

like it's a question like this, which one would you

rather do? So number one we both have to vote,

would you rather get stranded in Antarctica or the Sahara Desert?

Oh? Wow, Antarctica?

I think so too, because I think freezing to death

is I've heard it's less painful than being scorched to death.

Oh I didn't know we were dying. I just thought

we were being stranded.

Stranded is dying? Is it? Well, you're not going to

get rescued from Antarctica?

Well, I don't know, so for me, the reason why

I want to do I haven't been on that continent yet.

Oh wow, you're thinking like an explorer.

So I've been in the Samari many times. That's fun both,

but I haven't. I haven't been in I haven't been

in Antartica yet, So you're just check it off the box.

At least if I'm dying, I really do want to go.

It's a bucket list.

Yeah, that's funny. Okay. Number two, that's hilarious. Would you

rather go on a wild vacation full of new experiences

you're already saying yes yes, or go on a super

relaxing vacation that leaves you well rested.

Oh wild, wild new adventures.

No question. Yeah, I'm I'm the first one every day time.

Yep.

Okay. Number three? Would you rather be Batman or Superman?

Is this even a question? Who wrote this? They should

be shot?

Yeah? Batman?

Stop it? You should be shot.

Yeah. I think Batman's super cool. I think Superman is

super nerdy.

By the way, if you shoot me and I'm Superman, huh,

it won't matter. Yeah. If you're Bruce Wayne and I

shoot you, you're dead.

That just means you have to be better.

No, it means you're not Superman.

Well, you've got a good outfit.

Batman is one of the biggest jokes of a superhero ever.

I think Batman is the best of all the superheroes

from the DC side.

Do you really?

Yeah? I do? Which is super cool? Hey, who doesn't

want to be a billionaire with much cool toys? The

rest of it's all fake, you know that, right? Well,

but I think I think Elon Musk might be I

think he might be a Batman just running around.

You're talking about Bruce Wayne. I would love to be

Bruce Wayne. Sure, Batman and his cool toys. Huh, it's

sort of ridiculous.

It's more, it's more believable than some guy fly around

in the sky because he wears a cape but can't

fight when somebody has a green rock bi not.

Even close to What are you talking about? If you're

going to take me into a world where Avatar exists

on Pandora, then I'm there. I must accept that to

enter into that world.

No, No, I get it, I get it.

But here's your world. Your world is Batman is just

a human who knows karate and he does all those things.

With gadgets. That is not a believable one.

I think it's super cool.

Okay, but okay, I'm angry. What made Chris mad? What

made Chris mad today? Okay? Number four? Would you rather

be illiterate forever? Or only read dictionaries in your free time?

M that's true.

That's a hard one. Only read dictionaries?

I think so too.

Yeah, yeah, that's that's but that's that's a really hard one.

I don't know. I may change my answer. Only that

means that every single waking moment. That's why I read it.

Time of your freaking just stay busy? Oh, I see?

Okay, and then at least you're educated, right.

Okay, well, all right, staying busy. I guess you'd have

to Okay, I guess. I just don't know what discretionary

time is. I guess right. Number five? Would you rather get? Oh? Oh,

I think this is written wrong. Would you rather cook

a five course meal with Dwayne the Rock Johnson or

get ice cream with Zach e From.

They said they said, would you rather don't cook five?

I the fact that they said get ice cream?

I don't even think we have to vote on that one.

We hlious.

So if you're new to the podcast. Early on in

the podcast, we had asked very early week number three, Yeah,

we had asked Chris ninety seven episodes ago, Yeah, who

do you want to play Chris Zarba in the Inevitable

movie Made of Your Life? And he immediately said He

immediately said Zach Efron from when he was in Baywatch,

because he was perfect. And I was like, didn't Dwayne

the Rock Johnson?

First? He did not say it that way, because wow,

that's the way you heard it when you.

Were objecting about his abs and his muscles.

And I did not say because he was perfect.

And then you told us that he can sing and dance. Remember,

I believe so we made him better than you the

rest of us. Yes, yeses, but of course the Rock

isn't made better than us.

He's okay, big huge guys. Anyway.

Uh the uh, so I think we know how to vote?

Went which so.

Great about this is the cook It's it's the fact

that they said cook a five course meal. And then

thentithesis is good, go get ice cream. It's so great.

It's so sophisticated, very good to say, really funny, oh funny, okay,

so so uh and by the way, given these two

number one, I don't cook right and number two because

I would rather meet Zach Effron than Rock Johnson, the

answer would legitimately be go to ice cream with Zach Eron.

It would legitimately be that, which is even funnier.

Thank you so much for that moment.

Yes, you're welcome, Oh Mercy. Well, let's talk about hell.

There's a transition.

We just put all of our listeners through it. So

that's the well, hey, uh, yesterday for those it's a

hard transition. How do we transition out of it? That

was so unexpected? Okay, So yesterday we finished up with

the Great White Throne judgment, right, that judgment, the ultimate

judgment of God, sorting out those that were believers in

Christ whose name was found written in the Lamb's Book

of Life versus those who had rejected him and their

name was not found, and then he casts death and

hell and the grave all into thinks. So we're going

to summarize that again, and then we're going to unpack

the idea of hell and how do you go there?

In the idea of heaven and how do you go there?

So let's transition to something more serious. Go here, we go.

Revelation chapter twenty. Let me pick up where we ended yesterday.

It says, then death and the grave were thrown into

the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the

second death, and anyone whose name was not found recorded

the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Yeah.

I think my least favorite idea in existence is the

idea of hell.

Yeah.

I hate sure, I hate the idea of hell.

Well, it's actually a tension point for most Christians. In

other words, like, I'm talking about the actual doctrine of hell. Yeah,

the doctrine of somebody suffering that God would create it,

allow it, that whole thing in my experience, and I've

been a pastor for thirty one years. I'm not sure

what your experience is. But I thought about this coming

in because we knew. I knew we were going to

be talking about this, and I actually thought to myself,

I was trying to put a percentage on it. And

I think this is true. I think the struggle is real,

and I think that whenever talking about the actual reality

and the doctrine of Hell, I think seventy percent of

the people that I talk with about it struggle with

the idea that this is the way things are. They

just they're just uncomfortable with like like, like they believe

in God. They believe that what God's word says is true,

and if this is how God says things are going

to play out, and this is the reality of things,

then they believe in completely accept that, But they just

struggle with the idea that it is that way. And

I got to be honest, I do too, So it

is it is. It is one of those things about

you know, you know again, you can you do the

flip coin of that. The flip side of the coin

is when you start to understand the righteousness of God,

when you understand the goodness of God, the fairness of God,

the patience of God, you know, the the idea of

of good and evil and and I mean all of

those things, Like it helps you understand the doctrine of

hell more and and and and and it understands you

understand it almost completely. But the struggle is still real

and it's just the way it is.

So I think for me struggling through this this idea

of hell, where I kind of came to settling in

was logically because my emotions say, no way it's not fair,

it's not reasonable, it's horrific. So that's my emotions. But

my logic brought me to this conclusion, which, by the way,

you know Jeremiah, God says, come, let's reason together, says

the Lord. Right, So God uses logic. My logic came

to this either I as a limited human and by

the way, as a human, I can't see very far

and I can't see very much. It's one of the

reasons why some of my atheist friends are confusing. To me.

It would be much more intellectually honest to be an

agnostic than it would be to be an atheist, because

an atheist is claiming to have total knowledge, and it's

just not possible as a human. Even as a Christian

who confident that God is true, I don't have total knowledge.

I can't know write everything. So with as a person

who knows little and can't see very far. Am I

really saying that my morality is greater than God's morality? Right?

That God is slightly less moral than me because I

wouldn't do hell but God does. Or the flip side

of that logical coin is or am I missing something?

Am I minimizing? Sing? How horrific hell is, I mean sin,

how horrific sin is, And then I'm missing how extraordinary

God's grace is. He could have just made only hell,

but instead to wipe out and judge everything that's evil,

because evil is the antithesis of God. He could have

just made Hell be the thing and totally obliterate all

things that commit sin. But instead, how extraordinarily good and

beautiful is his grace that he was willing to pay

the price for me. He was willing to go to

heal through Hell for me in order for me to

have eternal life with him, even though I'm a sinner.

And that's where Romans five eight is, I'm telling you

one of my favorite verses in the Bible. But God

demonstrates his own love for us, and this while we

were still sinners. Christ died for us. So if I

can really appreciate the fact that hell is the only

thing anything that has ever sinned deserves, and yet he

demonstrates his love by paying the price so I don't

have to go there, that really makes him an extraordinary

hero in this story. Not evil, not not bad, And

it's certainly my morality. A God who's willing to extend

grace has a higher level of morality than I do,

because he extends grace far more often than I do.

So then I have to just settle in and go, Okay,

what do I do with Hell? And I believe in

hell because Jesus believed in hell. That's that's that's it.

It comes down to that, I'm not more moral than God. Yeah,

and I believe in hell because Jesus does.

So there's there's three there's different words for Hell mentioned

all the way throughout the scriptures, and there's sort of

three categories. Uh one is known as Shiel, one is Gehenna,

or the lake of fire, and then one is Hades.

Hades is almost exclusively referred to as a place not

of torment, but just a place of.

Death, of the dead, of the dead.

It's just the place of the dead. And when it

translates into Hades, that's that's the way that translates.

It's sometimes translated in modern translations as the grave.

The grave. That's right, that's it, that's exactly right. I

think if that whenever I think of Hades, I think

of the grim reaper, that old, that old, fake image.

And then and then there's Gehenna, and Gehenna was a

literal you know place. It was actually southwest, just outside

of Jerusalem. And Jeremiah the prophet referred to Gehenna way

back then because it used to be a place of

human sacrifice and then and then it became a place

destined to be a place of where they threw their

garbage and their unwanted things, and they constantly burned it,

perpetually burning dump. And it was it was, it was.

The flames never went out, and so whenever they referred

to Ghinnah, which is why people have a little bit

different interpretations like oh, jeez, was just using a visual aid,

you know that kind of thing, like you know it.

But there's a lot of debate about that. But but

what is clear is is that it is. It is

a place of fire. It is it is a place

of uh. It seems like it's torment. It's referred to

as you know, weeping and gnashing of teeth. And and

then Jesus uses another word uh that says darkness. Right,

he said, there'll be there'll be darkness forever. And by

the way, this is probably a good time because I

mentioned both of those things to talk about how there

are different opinions about hell, like like what like there

there's a minority view that says that they think that

everybody will get be given a chance to repent after

death before hell, right, and that and that people won't

you know, have to be subject to Hell because now

they realize who God is, they'll be given a chance.

And then another another minority belief is that Hell will

eventually be evacuated and that it is a temporary torment

and that people will be given a chance to respond

and and then you know, God and his grace and

his mercy will eventually evacuate all of Hell. And then

then there's another minority view, uh because because the majority

of view is the literal things that we just talked about.

But another minority view says that that Jesus wasn't talking

about like almost like there is a place, but it's

not quite literally a place of torment because Jesus, you know,

I talked about fire and total darkness and those things

cannot coexist. And so he's using metaphorical examples in the

same way that he's using you know, uh, you know,

other other landmarks that he would often refer to, and uh,

you know, like just just like in Revelation we just

read about like grape juice flowing from a wine press

and and things like that, and so, uh, those are

those are different views of Hell. And I believe that

those those are people trying to take the limited information

that we are given and they're trying to reckon the

goodness of God. They're trying to reconcile you know, the

logic of it, like you said, and the emotions of it.

But most theologians believe what is written, which is Hell

is a literal place. Either way, whether it's fire and

darkness going existing or not, it is very clear that

you don't want to go there. And it's a it's

a definite separation of God, and it is a place

of misery and eternal torment, an internal torment. Yeah.

Yeah, So I believe in Hell because Jesus believed in Hell.

Yep.

And in Luke chapter sixteen, Jesus tells the famous story

of rich Man and Lazarus, and he says, and he

went to the place of the dead, and there in torment,

he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at

his side. Rich Man shouted, Father, Abraham, have some pity,

send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his

finger in water and cool my tongue. I'm in anguish

in these flames now here. He's talking about out pre crucifixion,

all these kinds of things. So there was a concept

of two sides to Haites. There's the torment side and

the paradise side, right, Yeah, it was just the sheel

version right right, right. And some people believe that when

the Bible says that Jesus went and took the captivity

captive after his death, that that's what he did, is

he cleaned out the paradise side, right, So who knows that.

But Jesus does describe this eternal consequence for evil versus good.

Jesus said that hell wasn't for us, it was for

the devil and his demons, right, he says, But in

what is this Matthew twenty five, Yep, Matthew twenty five.

Jesus says, but when the Son of Man came in

his glory and all the angels with him, then he

will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations

will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate

the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

He placed the sheep at his right hand and the

goats at his left. And then the King will say

to those on his right, come, you are blessed by

my father and inherit the King, and prepared for you

from the creation of the world. And then in verse

twenty four, it says, then the King will turn to

those on the left and say, away with you, you

cursed ones, into the eternal fire, prepared for the devil

and his demons.

Yeah. Verse forty one you said twenty four.

Yeah, oh, I'm sorry forty one. Yeah.

Yeah, and so and that sounds pretty clear to me.

Yeah, Jesus is pretty clear on this.

Yeah. So it's it's so regardless of the details of

how exactly you know the environment is, yeah, you know,

the end result seems to be very clear.

And this is Jesus' version of what we talked about

yesterday at the Great White Throne. Jesus is saying, I'm

going to be the judge and I'm sorting them out. Right.

So the one who paid the price for us is

the one with the Lamb's book of life. He's the lamb,

and he's saying, either your name is in the Lamb's

Book of Life, or it's not. And so he separates

a sheet from the goats. And then, as we mentioned yesterday,

there's no middle ground. Right at the final judgment. The

Lord isn't really being slow about his promise as some

people think. No, he's being patient for your sake. He

doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

God's allowing time to play out because he wants us

to be able to go to heaven, which is the

other side of this conversation, right, which leads us into

Revelation Chapter twenty two. Said the Spirit and the bride

say come. Let anyone who hears this say come. Let

anyone who's thirsty come, and let anyone who desires drink

freely from the water of life. Jesus said, he is

the water of life, right, And so the Bible is

just saying anybody who will come, whosoever will may come.

Is what the King James would say.

I think of what he said to the woman at

the well when he says, the water that I give

anybody who drinks will never thirst again. Yeah, And he

talks about, you know, the well spring coming up and

I love how in Revelation and we have this image

of Jesus, you know, the conquering hero at the end,

and he's still referred to well, you know, well not him,

he's not referred to that. But but the eternity, the

invitation of Jesus through Jesus refer to the water of life.

That's right, which is so cool.

So it literally says, let anyone who's thirsty come, whosoever

will may come. And so then, which.

Means the invitation of hope is offered to every single

one of us.

Evil will be judged, and that's a good thing. We

all want evil to be judged. We just don't want

our evil to be judged. And so he's saying, listen,

whosoever will may come. So then, Jesus says in John three,

remember when he's talking to Nicodemus, Jesus replied, I tell

you the truth. Unless you're born again, you cannot see

the Kingdom of God. He's saying, there's a moment when

you go from death to being born again. You are

dead in your sins, and then you can be born

again in Christ, as you're saying. And unless this happens,

unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom

of God. So then the question is how. In John

fourteen six, Jesus said, I am the Way, I'm the Truth,

I'm the Life. No one comes to the Father except

through me. So Jesus is making it clear. Heaven and

Hell are a choice. Hell was never made for humanity.

It was made for the devil and his demons. But

if we reject Christ, our name's not it found in

the Book of Life, then there is no hope.

And by the way, you know, I always reference these

three things because I heard them once from a pastor,

my previous pastor that I sat under in Atlanta. But

I love it because when you hear John fourteen six

and Jesus says, I'm the Way of the truth in life,

no man gets through except through me. People always say

Christianity is narrow minded, like how can you possibly believe

that it has to be only through Jesus? Like that's

so narrow minded, And yet Christianity is the only world religion,

the only one that's actually the least narrow minded, because

everybody gets in the same way, right only in Christianity.

Everybody gets in the same way only in Christianity. Everybody

is invited, and only in Christianity everyone can meet the requirements,

and so the invitation is broader than any other world religion. Right, everybody,

everybody's invited. That's everybody can meet the requirements. Everybody gets

in the same way. And that's only true with the

message of the Gospel.

It literally says in first John five, and this is

what God has testified. He's given us eternal life. And

this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son

has life. Whoever does not have God's Son does not

have life. So the greatest question literally this is getting

your name in the Lamb's Book of Life is by

having the Son in your life. Right, that's it. It's

just that simple. And how do you do that? Paul

tells us in Romans ten. If you openly declare that

Jesus is Lord that means King of your life, and

believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,

you will be saved. Of course, it's by believing in

your heart that you're made right with God. It's by

being by openly declaring your faith that you are saved.

For everyone who calls in the name of the Lord

will be saved.

Yeah, that's great. Well, it's a great invitation. It's really

crystal clear, and that's about all the time that we

have to cover it. It's a lot to think about,

sure it is. There's a lot of implications because of it.

And the Bible tells us many times today is the

day of salvation. If you're not sure, don't wait. Don't

risk eternity on waiting until you know more. Call on Jesus, invite.

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will

be saved.

Yeah, that's a great place to end, and we will

see you tomorrow, hopefully on the Bible. Guys,