Romans 12 | RCD Podcast

So there's all sorts of complicated stories that the world tells about why you are the way you are, why you feel the way you feel, how you should be interacting, what um types of opinions you should have and how you should think and how those should play out.

And there's there's subtle ones that seem completely harmless.

Like here's one.

Um nobody should impose their beliefs on anybody else.

Uh everybody should be able to do what is right in their own eyes so long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Like it's it feels harmless.

You know, making decisions based off of a principle like that feels feels like this won't hurt anybody.

Yeah.

You know, there's no cost to this.

A cost with a compromise like that, it doesn't feel like there's a cost.

Yeah.

But what's actually happening is adopting that principle is conforming your mind to the pattern of the world.

And then the result of that is you won't even be able to tell what is good or what is bad.

Hello, this is James Rathman.

And this is Gibson Gellerman.

And this is the Redemption Church Denver Podcast, where we are walking through, following our Bible studies, the chapters that we're covering in those Bible studies, and today we are covering Romans chapter 12, which is a wonderful chapter, a switch to application.

Romans 12 · chapter mention

And it smells like post-oak barbecue in here.

Why is that, Gibson?

I'm permanently seasoned with post-oak barbecue.

Wow.

From slicing meat.

It's a heavy musk.

It is, it is, it is.

It's a powerful smell.

Permanent cologne.

It is a permanent cologne.

Yeah, manly cologne.

For sure.

It is.

For sure.

Well, today's episode of the podcast is brought to you by the Deck the Halls event, which takes place Sunday, November 23rd, which is uh is actually coming up.

That's that's it's crazy.

Feels far away, but it's just around the corner.

Sunday, November 23rd, one of my favorite times of the year.

Everybody sticks around after church, and we all decorate the church together.

It's very fun.

We order pizza, we play Christmas music, and we decorate the church.

It's like one of my favorite things that we do.

There's people on ladders outside and risking their lives to hang lights, and we're climbing up on tops of the eaves inside the church and crawling around, and it's a wonderful time.

Yeah.

It's the most wonderful time of the year.

That's right.

We are also brought to you by the uh hearty contributions of the Berkeley Carol Sing, which will take place on Saturday, November 29th from 4:30 to 5:30, right on the front lawn of Redemption Church Denver.

We gather together as a church and with folks in our community and friends that we invite, and we sing together carols ringing the Christmas season.

And this is a wonderful thing to invite folks to.

We're marketing it all around the neighborhood uh to bring people in and help uh celebrate together, sort of set the tone of this uh wonderful time of the year for our neighborhood.

So mark your calendars, prepare to come out, do your vocal warmups, and we'll sing together outside of R C D.

Alright, Romans 12.

Gibson, what do you think about Romans 12?

I I like Romans 12.

Tell me why.

Because well, it uh there's a certain switch, as you said, to application, uh, which hasn't been um uh void in the book of Romans.

He's given application.

But there's a a tone switch into a uh uh direction for how to live as a Christian now, after having received the glorious grace of the gospel in chapters pretty much one through eleven.

Um summing up sin, summing up the gospel, um, summing up the glorious new Israel, and now it's like how do you how then shall we live?

Yes to steal Schaefer.

But and it's it's it's simple, it doesn't take much to understand.

Yeah, and uh Paul's not trying to be mysterious.

No, no, it's we're getting so plain.

Yeah, like he's plunged into the depths of these mysteries of God and he's shown us these incredible wonders, and then he climbs to the heights with this doxology at the conclusion of this of this argument that he's he's shown for the righteousness of God and the saving of sinners in the gospel.

And now that he's done that, it's like, how do how do I respond to this?

You should feel like a shaken-up Coke bottle by the end of this.

It's like, all right, I gotta get out.

I want to do something, I want to want my life to be lived by the power of this news that I've just heard of what Christ has accomplished on my behalf and our participation in it by faith.

And so what do you do?

And he gives you this wonderful appeal.

And I like to emphasize that the the shape in which this takes of this uh this appeal that he makes, it's the same word that he uses in Philemon, when Paul is writing to Philemon on behalf of a of the slave Onesimus, and Philemon is the owner of Onesimus.

And when he appeals to Phil Philemon, he says, I could command you, but I'm choosing not to command you.

I'm just appealing to you.

And it has this same sense of you ought to know, because I trust your faith, that the right thing to do is to receive back Onesimus as a brother, is to forgive him and receive him back.

And so Paul is like, I'm an old man in prison, and I'm just appealing to you.

In the sense that he makes it an appeal, there's this beauty of, uh, of course I could command you, but I don't even need to, because you know the gospel, and just by reason alone you would be able to determine, of course, with what Christ has done for me, in receiving me into fellowship with him, although I sinned against him, of course I ought to receive back Onesimus, as my brother in Christ, who has now come to the Lord, and in because how could I deny the gospel that's taken place in my own life and not receive him back?

And that same sense of appeal is Paul's like, well, now that you know, after having heard all that I've just taught you, I need only appeal to you because it's it's plainly reasonable that you would want to live in accordance with what the Lord has called you to do, and you would want to take the position that he has called you to take within the church, and you would want to relate to one another within the church as though the Lord has accomplished this wondrous love towards you, and that you'd want to relate to your enemies as though God has accomplished this wondrous love towards you.

And so he just appeals to you, appeals for uh because it's it's a reasonable response.

Yeah.

You it's just like, of course, this is how we ought to respond to the Lord.

And so he says, I appeal to you, therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

He brings it to an act of worship.

Yeah.

Why do you think that the so there's two things I guess I want to talk about there?

This this presenting your bodies as a living sacrifice, and that that is an act of spiritual worship.

Yeah.

Why is living sacrifice and worship together?

Yeah, I mean, for his hearers, um if you'd been intimately involved in old covenant worship practices, at the center of it was sacrifice.

Right.

And so it's it's it's reasonable that because of the continuity of the covenant of grace, the new covenant has sacrifice as well.

Yes.

And it has Christ as the fullness of that sacrifice.

Yes.

And it also has you in all of your fullness because you're united with him in his death, burial, and resurrection as a sacrifice as well.

And as a living sacrifice, uh, Christ calls himself the he says I'm the resurrection.

Yeah.

Which uh origin to quote a heretic.

If you're early enough, we let it slide.

I know.

If you're it's a difference between being early and wrong and being late and wrong.

There is.

There is.

And uh he says uh Christ calls himself the resurrection because he causes those who are dead in their sin to rise to newness of life.

Yeah.

Which is pretty sick.

Yeah, it's pretty sick.

It's pretty sick.

Dead in your sin, and we rise to newness of life because Christ is the resurrection.

So right there, you have both death in sacrifice and dying to the flesh, which we continuously do.

Yep.

Um, and will ultimately uh consummate.

Yes.

And when you have living in newness of life, so it's a living sacrifice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And and it's this living sacrifice, like you, yeah, your your life lived in sacrifice to the Lord, dying to the flesh, rising to new life in him, is holy and acceptable.

Yeah.

It's like a spotless Lamb of God being presented to the Lord.

The Lord receives your life lived for him as this glorious act of worship to him that does glorify him.

Yeah.

It really does.

Yep.

It looks so ordinary, you can barely see it, you know, in the Christian life.

Yeah.

You know, it's just like repentance, it's obedience, it's uh loving people that are hard to love, it's forgiving people who have sinned against you.

Those ordinary Christian things, the Lord receives as this glorious aroma to him.

It's the things you do every day.

The things you do every day.

And yeah, it's just simple.

Yep.

And it's that's your reasonable service.

That's that's what he requires.

Yes.

And it makes sense.

Yeah, ESV translates it spiritual work.

Yeah, exactly.

The uh yeah, KJV, what does it say?

Reasonable service.

Reasonable service.

Which is uh Brackels um four-volume set uh Chris Servant's reasonable service.

So it i I I love that sense of it's it because he'll go into the transformation of your mind.

Yeah.

And you can hear like reasonable service, transformation of your mind, the appeal.

There's this simple, like logical response is almost what um Paul is saying.

It's like there's this necessary implication of the gospel that you would live an an act of you would live a life of uh sacrifice to the Lord as the reasonable logical response to the gospel.

So that's why he goes into do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind.

Let's talk about that distinction.

There's a thing that you should not do.

Do not be conformed to this world.

So what is what is that?

It's I I I just have to think it's like I want to fit in.

Yes, exactly.

We've been quoting a lot of American Psycho in the office lately.

And that is what Patrick Bateman, that is the like the key motivation of his life.

Yes.

I yeah, because I want to fit in.

Yeah, yeah.

I think of the Pharisees.

I think of the Pharisees.

Because being Pharisaical is fitting into the power structure, uh, whatever that may be at a certain time.

I'll think that.

I'll believe that.

Yeah.

If I get to stay in here, yeah.

If I get to like I got called to the late night meeting to discuss this, you know, at Caiaphas's house.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, and all I had to do was just kind of like believe whatever they said and justify whatever they said.

Yeah.

And I got to be there in the room.

Yeah.

You know?

Those compromises.

Yeah, you just get you get molded into the same lump of clay.

As the world.

As the world is.

And so you think like it.

It's contrary to a Christian nature.

It's um reverting back to an old essence.

Yep.

Uh uh an old way of thinking.

Yes.

Uh, where the mind isn't renewed.

Uh Ephesians 4 uh says that the unbeliever walks in the darkness of his mind.

Yeah.

Uh he can't he can't see things as they are.

Yeah.

And so he has to be conformed to the world.

Yep.

And believe whatever they tell him to.

Yeah.

Essentially.

Yeah, that's right.

So there's all sorts of complicated stories that the world tells about why you are the way you are, why you feel the way you feel, how you should be interacting, what um types of opinions you should have and how you should think and how those should play out.

And there's there's subtle ones that seem completely harmless.

Like, like here's one.

Um uh nobody should impose their beliefs on anybody else.

Uh, everybody should be able to do what is right in their own eyes so long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Like it's it feels harmless.

You know, making decisions based off of a principle like that feels feels like this won't hurt anybody.

Yeah.

You know, there's no cost to this.

A cost with a compromise like that, it doesn't feel like there's a cost.

Yeah.

But what's actually happening is adopting that principle is conforming your mind to the pattern of the world.

And then the result of that is you won't even be able to tell what is good or what is bad.

Yeah.

You won't be able to tell what's acceptable and what's unacceptable, or what's perfect or what's not perfect.

You won't even be able to tell.

And it'll happen slowly in your in your life, because it's a little compromise here, a little compromise there.

Yeah.

A little like, I know what the Bible says, but the world's complicated, and the older I get, the more gray I see, and I am able to hold these things together, you know, and it's strange.

And um, and then before you know it, it's like I can't even tell what's good or what's bad.

You don't know that it doesn't feel like that.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, but that's what spiritual blindness is like.

Yeah.

Darkness is like.

Yeah.

If even the darkness is as light to them, how dark is that darkness?

Yeah.

You know, that's a terrifying thing.

Yeah, you you eliminate all necessary distinctions.

Right.

You need to live as born-again people.

Yeah.

And the elimination of those distinctions.

It's like disintegration.

Yeah, it is what it is.

And it's confusion.

Yep.

And that's why it's darkness.

Yeah, yeah, those are the same things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause you can't tell what's around you when you're in the dark.

That's why you step your toe and because you can't see what's there.

Yeah.

And the uh our minds are renewed by what Christ has done, our receiving of the Holy Spirit, and then they're transformed by the renewing of our mind by the word of God.

And they then it with the word of God, we're able to see plainly, like, oh no, that's good and that's bad.

Because the Bible says so.

Yeah.

You know, I can easily tell, like, the Ten Commandments are not that hard to know.

No, you can memorize them.

You can memorize you can memorize them in.

It takes like ten minutes.

Yeah, exactly.

One minute per.

Yeah.

And then you you look around and it's like, oh no, that's bad.

Yeah.

That's a bad thing.

We shouldn't do that.

That won't work.

Yeah.

Uh I could tell just by reading it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you're touching on something in uh in verse two.

I've had this verse spiritualized in my life.

Where the will of God isn't the word.

Oh yeah, come on.

It's the undiscernible feeling that I will soon have about a certain particular decision in life.

Yeah.

That's what we've made the the will of God to be.

Yes.

And that's not that's not what Paul's talking about, though.

So what's Paul talking about?

He's talking about the revealed will of the Lord.

Yeah.

That which he has already given us.

Yep.

You we know it.

Because he's assuming you know it.

Yeah.

He's yeah, he's assuming in everything that follows.

Especially at this point in the book.

Because he's like, you just like you're here.

Yeah.

We're in the middle of the letter.

So you've read it.

Yeah.

I know up to this point or you've heard it.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Um and you've heard it here.

You've been hearing it through the prophets, through the law.

Yep.

You've been hearing this for thousands of years.

Yeah.

Um, it's not the feeling that we yearn for.

Yes.

To make a decision that we base off of and call it the will of God.

Man, don't we underestimate revelation?

Oh, totally.

Like we underestimate that ours is a revealed religion.

Yeah.

It has been revealed.

Yeah.

It has been shown to us.

The Lord has shown himself to us.

He's shown to us the rescue that he's accomplished, the what obedience to him means.

We don't have to wander around in darkness and wonder what is the will of God for my life?

Like what does he really desire for me?

And what is the uh He He just says, look, this is what obedience is.

Yep.

Go do that.

Yep.

And make decisions in accordance with that, with the things that you can know and the things you can see.

I've shown you what's reasonable.

You're you're able to look out into the world and say good and bad.

And as you do that, you should you should love good things.

And if you love them, that's the stuff that you're gonna be like, yeah, I want to walk towards that.

Yep.

And the things you hate, you should walk away from that because you should abhor what's evil.

Your taste changes.

Exactly.

You should be conformed to that.

Yeah, you have a true sight.

You have a true sight, your eyes have been renewed.

That means there's there we're often going to experience conflict with old ways of thinking.

And those will those will surface when they come into conflict with the Lord.

So like when we're making decisions and we recognize that the driving factor of this decision, or the way that I'm reasoning through this, is everybody should be able to do whatever they want so long as it doesn't harm others, then we realize, oh, that's actually brought into conflict with the Word of God who requires obedience from all people.

Yep.

And so I I actually can't say, oh, this is fine for them.

Um unless unless you you hate them with a hatred that causes you to w which is just like evidence of your complete denial of the gospel in the first place.

Right.

So you would you just like want them to be you you want like non-Christians, for example, just be devoured by their sin, which leads to death and terrible lives and chaos and horror, which is what sin results in.

Yeah, exactly.

Uh so we underestimate revelation.

You have it.

The will of God, you have it.

Sufficient.

Sufficient for you.

Yep.

Um everything, yeah, everything the Lord requires of you, He freely gives to you.

Yep.

And that includes discerning that which is good and bad.

Yeah.

He's already given you the uh the measure of faith.

Yes.

Uh it's the standard.

Yes.

So I hope that that is because I'm sure like like you may be listening to this and you it be in a situation in your life where like I'm trying to figure out what the word of God is, or what the will of God is for my life.

Like, what does he have for me next?

What is he calling me to?

What is the will of God for my life?

And you can know it by reading his word.

Yeah.

You can know the will of God.

And the uh uh decisions that you have to make that are not made explicit uh in Revelation, He's entrusted those to you.

Yeah so make them in accord with obedience to him.

Yeah, make the decision that you can make in faith.

Yeah.

And the and then know who you're dealing with.

Yeah.

He's not hanging you out to dry when you're doing that.

Like he's not like, well, you missed it.

Like that was a that was a miss.

Uh he he has entrusted that to you and uh you can you can move in faith.

I think one of the things you've helped uh at least me and I think the whole church with is recognizing that uh one of the best reasons to make decisions is to say because I want to.

Yes.

Um and that's it's helpful because it frees you from this everything is a moralistic decision, yeah.

Uh whether or not I can eat that cookie or not.

Yeah.

And you could actually just say it's cause I want to.

Yeah, you can the Lord's given wine for the Mary of Heart.

Yes.

And you could just do it.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Like, um, I'm gonna go for a bike ride this afternoon.

Yeah, I'm not actually I got worked a But I could.

The whole reason that I could use to make that decision is because I like to do that.

Yeah, exactly.

Because that's I think it's super enjoyable.

Yeah.

Really fun.

And I like I like it.

Yeah.

I like doing that stuff.

And if you don't if uh I I I just because of this sermon that I preached last week, the whole thing was like, what do you think God is like?

Yeah.

Was like the theme that came out of that to me of the Exodus just being or the walking through the Red Seas, saving those sorts of people is like, that's what he's like, man.

That seems crazy that anybody would do that.

Yeah, well, you don't know God.

Like, that's what he's like.

Yeah.

And then remembering what he's like and and acting like it.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, like like, man, he uh whenever the gospel really hits me or really connects, and like when it did, even for the first times in a deep heart-level way, um, like when I was in college, I remember just like seeing it the depth of his love towards us, the goodness of what he desires for us, and then just saying, like, oh, pray for it.

He'll probably give it to you.

Yeah.

Like, you know, have you heard what he's like?

Like, have you heard what he's already done?

Like, you should just pray for it.

Totally.

You know, like pray, pray for the stuff that you want to see.

Yeah.

He'll probably I bet he'll do it.

Yeah.

Like, because he's um yeah, lovely and wonderful.

Uh that's the that's Christian freedom.

Yeah.

Another another good heuristic that I think for decision making, because decision making is a is just like a hang-up in the Christian life, I think, totally often.

I think we tend to overestimate decision making and underestimate um just making a decision and taking action.

Oh, totally.

You know, because like a bad decision well executed is fine, probably.

Usually works out.

Usually works out.

Um we we sort of think of ourselves as like that we create by fiat.

You know?

Yeah.

Um, not that there aren't important decisions, of course there are, but you understand what I mean.

Uh but uh I think the the best decision-making heuristic that we get uh in this life is seems good.

Yep.

You know, and that's taken directly from Acts.

It seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit.

That's I mean if I were to like Just justify that one.

I know.

Like if I were to invoke it, this is the way the apostles talk.

Yeah.

You know, seems good to us.

Yep.

And it's it's it's perfectly human.

They perfectly understand the type of thing they are, the way that they relate to the Lord, the commission that they've been given by God, and that they want to be actively participating in that.

And so they look out and they're like, this seems good.

Yep.

Seems good to us, so we're gonna do that.

Uh that's totally sufficient to honor the Lord.

And what it does, the the those two things have something in common.

The sense of um seems good and because I want to, they both uh take responsibility for the decisions that you're making in trust of the Lord's faithfulness to you.

Yeah.

Because the the other thing that you're seeking is a level of certainty that allows you to not take any responsibility for the decision that you're making.

Because you can look back and say, my hands were tied.

Yeah, yeah.

I had to.

It was the only it it was certain.

Right.

I could I couldn't be held responsible for what I'm doing.

And I think what that shows, that desire for that type of certainty in our decision making, it shows a a lack of faith in the generosity that God has for you.

Yeah.

And the understanding of your frame that he tells you he has.

Yeah.

He's like, he he knows your frame.

Like he knows what it's like to be a human.

Yeah, exactly.

He knows the limits of your knowledge.

He knows the um he doesn't require certainty of you about future consequences of things that you're doing, because he knows you're not the type of thing that can have that.

Oh yeah.

I read Hebrews 11.

It's all about the the old patriarchs didn't have that.

Exactly.

And that's exactly why they're being praised.

Yes.

Because even though they didn't have it, they still acted.

Yes.

Um and so uh what was uh they yeah, like in Hebrews 11, it's like they must have been thinking of a better city.

Yeah.

A heavenly one.

And because of their confidence in that, they were able to move freely in this life, just seeking obedience to the Lord.

Yeah.

And they that's what it is to have a renewed mind, is to think the things of God.

Yeah.

Is to think, oh, there's a heavenly city.

Yep.

Uh it's like prove that.

It's like, well, there's a heavenly city.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Or the Bible tells me so.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

That's the type of trust.

And what reason we have to trust, like uh think of what we've learned so far in Romans.

Oh, yeah.

Like you just have such good reason to trust the Lord.

Yeah.

He's obviously for you.

Yeah.

Like the one who didn't spare his own son is obviously for you.

Yep.

So you it is utterly reasonable to do what he wants you to do.

Yeah.

In obedience, like he's told you.

And the things that he hasn't explicitly revealed in his revealed will, you obviously don't need to know.

Yeah, exactly.

For the decision that you're making.

You can know other stuff.

Yep.

For that.

Cool.

That was a fun tangent.

Hopefully beneficial, because I think decision making, seeking the will of God, can be like this paralysis for Christians in their lives.

And it it doesn't need to be.

It's um the answer is uh trust in the Lord and trust in what he's like.

Yeah.

Have your mind renewed by his word.

So he goes on and he says, and he uh begins to describe, he's like it's like he forms the church into this body.

I I guess we should just read it.

For by the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

Alright, let's talk about those verses.

He even does it because he says, by the grace given to me, he's like, I'm modeling for you what I'm asking you to do.

Yep.

I understand that there's a certain level of grace that's been given to me.

And by the way, it's a big level.

Grace has been given to me bigly.

You know, he could tell stories about what level of heaven have you been caught up to?

It's in Well Paul said the third.

He was at the third, yeah.

I haven't been called up to the third level.

That's pretty high.

That seems high to me.

Yeah, I walk outside and see like one level of heaven.

So he's thrice the level.

And so by that grace, he's able to tell us these incredible things, but they're also they're very accessible sorts of things.

And he's saying, don't think of yourself more highly than you ought.

Think with sober judgment according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

So be realistic with the measure of faith that God has assigned to you.

Paul's being realistic about it.

Yeah.

There's no false humility.

You know, he's not like, well, like maybe I'm an apostle, maybe I'm not.

He's like, yeah, I'm the I'm the one writing, you're the one reading.

Yep.

And it's authoritative in the Word of God.

Yep.

Uh we want the people with greater measures to be acting like they have greater measures.

Yeah.

That's just that's awesome for the body.

It is.

It's greater for the lesser.

Yep.

Um, and we can celebrate that and think of ourselves sober-mindedly, not more highly, not more lowly.

You know, like I've uh uh experienced wonderful grace in my life.

There's things that I'm still fighting.

Yeah.

There's uh responsibilities that I I know for certain I have.

There's others that I desire that I don't have right now.

Those are it's just sober-mindedness.

Um I grab uh coffee with um John Gam pretty often.

Yeah.

And one of the refrains of our um, you know, trying to build one another up is don't forget you're just a guy.

Yeah, you're just a guy.

You're dust.

Yeah.

I'm just a guy.

And that's like oh yeah, that's right.

I'm called to do this as just like the guy that I am.

Yeah, exactly.

Uh that's good.

I can do that.

Yeah.

I can do that.

Um and he goes on, for as in one body, we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function.

So we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another, having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us.

Let us use them, if prophecy in proportion to our faith, if service in our serving, the one who teaches in his teaching, the one who exhorts in his exhortation, the one who contributes in generosity, the one who leads with zeal, the one who does acts of mercy with cheerfulness.

So talk to me, Gibson, about the many parts in the one body.

What is what's what is that?

Well, it's like like if you look at yourself.

Uh-huh.

You can I can see myself from here.

You can see yourself from not all of me.

Yeah.

You can see your parts.

Like your hands, your your fingers, and uh all these different parts.

Part of one body, though.

Yeah.

So it's the the one in the many.

Yeah.

And uh in verse five shows that the strength of the many parts lies in the very fact that they are of one body.

Yeah.

Which means that it's a great thing that not everyone teaches, not everyone prophesies, not everyone serves in the same capacity, but that they're all a part of one body.

Yeah.

And the body is Christ's.

Yeah.

And so the uh me and Bruce, we uh we were talking a couple weeks ago about the definition of beauty.

Yeah.

You know, the kind of thing you talk about over coffee.

Yeah, yeah.

Kind of thing you talk about.

Yeah.

And uh it was you have to bring in the one in the many there.

Yeah.

Because if something's truly gloriously beautiful, you know, worship the Lord in the splendor of of beauty, it brings together various differing aspects into a cohesive oneness.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And since the one in the many is solved in the triune God, who is three persons in one God.

Yeah.

And thus is infinitely beautiful.

Yes.

Oh, this is really good.

You're cooking right now.

It smells like you're cooking because you smell like post- and you're cooking.

Yep.

I like to be around of life to life.

Yeah.

You can interpret that very many ways.

The four different senses of scripture they used to say.

Um when we we speak of of oneness and many, the church, which Christ is purified, uh-huh, we can say is beautiful because all of its parts come together in a cohesive body.

Yeah.

Which is what he says in verse 16.

Be of the same mind.

One mind.

Yep.

Christ in Gethsemane chapter 17 prayed that they would be one, that his disciples would be one.

Yes.

And so it's all it's all to say unity is is the form of strength.

Yeah, it is.

In in the church.

Yes, unity is our strength.

Yeah.

Yes.

Because there's and it and it's within the it's within the unity that the beauty of the diversity of gifting starts to align.

Yeah.

Because there's like, you know, d like absolute diversity, but not aligned towards anything.

That's just like fuzz on your TV.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, it doesn't, it's meaningless, it doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything.

But when it's aligned towards one end, then there's this beautiful, yeah, this beauty that takes place.

Yeah.

And yeah, beauty is proportion.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, the proportion of things coming together.

You you aren't all uh uh given the same grace, you know, not everybody's the teacher, not everybody's the exhorter, not everybody's serving.

There's different proportions of grace, not everybody has the same amount of knowledge or the same.

And when those cohere of one mind in Christ, oh man, it's beautiful.

It's beautiful.

So so we we need to rightly celebrate the differences of our giftings of you know hands and arms and legs and you know, in the parts, um, and uh not celebrate the uh diversity where there ought to be unity.

Yeah.

You know, so we should not celebrate uh a unity which is, you know, you're thinking one thing about Christ and I'm thinking another thing about Christ.

This is not unity.

Yeah.

You know, that that's decay.

Yep, exactly.

Decomposition.

Yep.

Um, but uh when we're united by our head in Christ, now it's a coherent body.

That's life.

Yeah.

So makes it that's what makes it life.

That's what made Adam life.

He took the dispersion of dust and breathed the Spirit of God into it, bringing it into a cohesive unit.

Yes.

Uh isn't that so cool?

Because that is the exact image of what God is doing here with the body of Christ.

Yep.

Is he taking from the diversity, uh it's like the nations are scattered dust, and he's bringing them into this coherence, this one body with Christ as the head.

Exactly.

So when Christ is the head and we're aligned towards him, then there's unity.

Yeah.

And unity is our strength.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's how he's purifying his beloved.

How do you think, um, speaking of Bruce, this is a great Bruce Nickley question that he had about this section?

Uh how do you know your gifting?

Like the level of grace that you have.

How do you know how you should be participating in the body of Christ?

You know, I wonder how as a church we can help people know that better.

Yeah.

So that could be expressed.

Yeah.

So we'll yeah, go ahead.

I think it's um kind of an organic thing.

Uh-huh.

Uh one way is organic in the sense of like if you look at what you're supposed to do in life, just obey God.

Uh-huh.

And he'll direct you where he wants.

It's kind of my philosophy.

Yeah.

It's a little oversimplified.

But I don't think so.

But it seems to be working.

Yeah.

Seems to be working to where I'm obeying God, and then he's just like shown paths.

Yes.

He's like, here's where you want to be.

Yeah.

And other times there's like waiting periods of like uh uh I want to be somewhere.

But I don't know how to get there from here.

I don't know how to get there.

And then there's there's times where he's like, ah, you probably just weren't gonna be there in the first place.

Yeah.

That's not where he was leading.

Yeah, totally.

But I didn't know that.

And I'm not gonna focus on that.

Because that's too much focus on that is what I think the spiritual will of God error comes in.

Yeah.

It's like that's that's that.

Yep.

If you just do what he says, though you can trust him.

You can trust him.

Yeah.

You can trust him.

And so uh oftentimes I've just relied on my elders to be like, here's where we see you going.

Yeah.

Because if I think of the guys who have a renewed mind and are shepherds of the sheep, they are they know where the sheep should be going, should be doing.

Yeah.

And since the Lord has entrusted them with me, I'm gonna rely on that.

Yeah.

And if they say, here's where you should go, that's that's a big influence.

Yeah.

And in how I view everything.

Yeah, totally.

Totally.

You know?

Yeah.

There's a there's also this element that I think I loved what what Bruce said.

And he uh he said one of the great ways to help folks discern that is uh helping them figure out what they like to do.

Oh, totally, yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Like what do you like to do?

And that's often related to like what problems seem salient to you.

Yeah.

Because there are some problems that just are not on my radar.

Like they don't even it's like that doesn't I I don't see it at all.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, and the and those things to other folks in the church are like so salient.

Yeah, you know, like they they walk in and like I think of like Tom on security.

Oh yeah.

Like he he walks in and he's like, that's like a vulnerability.

We gotta make sure that door to the kids' classroom is closed.

I'm like, that lens was not on my radar at all.

Oh, totally.

You know, because I was like walking in, like, hey, things are even fine again.

Yeah.

Another day where nothing bad happened.

Looks like nothing bad can happen.

Exactly.

But you look at him and he loves it.

He loves it, he loves it.

Yes, it's enlivening, it's it's loving, it's you know, uh a sense of love for the congregation and care and this like fatherly care that he has for the congregation in that regard.

And and so that's like you do that.

Yeah.

Do what you like.

Yeah.

Totally.

Yeah.

I mean, you like what do you like?

Reading books.

Yeah, exactly.

I like read I like reading books, I like teaching, I like preaching.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Um that that's the stuff I like to do.

Yeah.

And I like to meet with folks and hear what's going on in their lives and tell them the gospel again, and then walk away and say, Well, looks like another problem the gospel addresses.

We found another one, put it on the list.

Yeah, exactly.

Uh and uh I like and I like encouraging.

Yeah, you know, I I I really love to like remind people of what God's like, you know, what he's like towards them.

I like them to feel encouraged and emboldened and um uh so I try and do that.

Yeah, you know, that's uh uh and yeah, praise God, I get to do that.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, it's so joyful.

So joyful.

So so um yeah, I think for yourself, like be thinking like what is what do I like?

Yeah.

Um what would I love to see more of?

Um yeah, and then try and position yourself to do that.

To do that for folks.

Sometimes people write off the things that they like because it doesn't seem sacrificial enough.

Um and sometimes needs are just needs, you know, like just what circumstances require.

Um but even that there's a sense of adventure.

Totally that uh that we should have.

So he forms this body, and then he moves into like these characteristics.

He's like, here's the different things you'll be doing, and don't you see the grace of God forming this body from the dust, this unity from the dust?

Um and then there's uh here are some like virtues that uh support the health of the body.

Yeah.

So he says, Let love be genuine, abhor what is evil, hold fast to what is good, love one another with brotherly affection, outdo one another in showing honor, do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord, rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer, contribute to the needs of the saints, and seek to show hospitality.

The um renewing of your mind, you know, being able to that by testing you may discern what is good and acceptable and perfect.

You see that I what you're able to do is abhor what is evil and hold fast to what is good.

You can make accurate distinctions.

Yes.

Um, which are necessary for your for the wellness of your life.

Yeah, totally.

Uh, even as um fathers, as husbands, you see something entering a household, yep, uh, an ideology or something, you you're the guy who has to say, Well, it's either evil or good.

Yep.

Um, that's the Responsibility of a Christian, of all Christians, is to judge that which is good and that which is you imitate the creator uh when he created in Genesis.

Yeah, he creates and he says that's good.

He makes a judgment call.

Yeah.

Um and he says, That's good, that's very good, and then something's added.

That's what the life is.

It's making distinctions constantly.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah, you want to be able to say good and bad.

That's good, that's bad.

To say the older I get, the less gray I see.

Black and white people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh love one another.

Yeah, let love be genuine.

Is that first exhortation?

Yeah.

Um, yeah, try and really love each other.

Like if you're gonna be a part of a church, you gotta love idiosyncrasies.

Oh, totally.

You know, you gotta love the strangeness of people.

You gotta love the weird quirks and features.

I prep myself every Sunday.

Yeah.

It's gonna be weird and awkward when I walk in here.

And it's gonna be great.

And it's gonna be great.

It's gonna be great.

Like there's gonna be some some folks and they'll say things and it'll be like, oh, but what?

Like I've never I can't imagine.

There's it and I I'm like that to people.

Oh yeah.

You know?

And you gotta you gotta be a collector of the of the odd and the quirky and the um you have to love that and be like, look at what God is doing.

Like this is wild.

Like when you go on uh like when you go to a zoo, you know, you like to see like the glorious lion and you also like we went to the Shine Mountain Zoo, not that the church is a zoo, not that we're animals.

Well, but we went to the Shine Mountain Zoo and there are these hippos.

Yeah.

You know, and you look at a hippo and it's like those proportions are wild.

Oh, that's insane.

It's just like the they're that's an insane shape for a creature to be.

It doesn't make any I can't believe the jawline on that thing is just crazy.

Wild.

Those are on the world with us.

I can't believe that.

We've taken dominion over them.

Yeah, I I don't know how.

I really don't know how.

Um and uh but you go to see that and to wonder at it and to wonder how God has done these things.

Yeah, oh totally.

Uh and yeah, so then you then that's like love becoming genuine because love is I love the way you are.

Yeah.

You know, and I love how God made you and what God's making you to be.

Yeah.

Uh and then love gets to be genuine.

Uh outdo one another in showing honor.

Uh what a cool competition for a group to have.

Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.

You know, it's like get to it.

Yep.

Don't wait.

Get uh take action, lead.

Yep.

Um rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.

Man, that fits like so many life circumstances that you're sharing in with one another.

Like we're rejoicing, but what are we rejoicing in?

In hope.

It means we're there's a rejoicing in a lot of stuff we can't see right now.

Yeah.

You know, I was talking with some folks and I was like, I feel right now, like right now in the church, there are so many folks that are in a point in their story where they're, you know, like a comedy is shaped like a U.

Yeah.

Totally.

And they're at the bottom of the U.

And it seems like there's no way out.

And I don't know how it can be reconciled.

But we can rejoice in hope that the Lord will, you know, resolve these things in people's lives.

Um, and uh oh, I'm skipping ahead.

Sorry, I skipped ahead in my in my Bible, but uh be patient in tribulation.

Yep.

Like don't check out, hang in there.

There's seasons like this, there's times like this, there's tribulation like this.

Hold on.

Yeah, you can hold on and constant in prayer.

How else can you do it if you don't hold fast to the Lord in prayer?

And then contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.

Seek to bring people in.

Yeah.

You know, welcome, be hospitable.

Like I like on Sunday mornings, I I try and for like before the sermon and stuff.

Yeah.

I try and think of myself, it's like, James, you're you're the host.

Yeah.

You know, be a be a host, like you're welcoming folks into your home.

Be a like when folks show up and they're you don't recognize them, like what would you want the hosts to do?

Yeah, you'd want to say, like, hey, welcome in.

Like, I don't think we've met or we have met, or oh, I'm sorry, you know, can I get you a cup of coffee or do you know where the kids are?

Do you know?

And then and then it's like, oh yeah, like when somebody treats you like that in their home, like I think uh like the Gossets are so good at uh hospitality.

Totally, yeah.

You know, and like uh like I show up and it's like uh you're there for a minute in Brandon's like, Do you want a beer or whiskey?

What type of whiskey do you want?

Do you want a cocktail?

That's a good or yeah, exactly.

Do you want a uh um and then they'll he'll spot that you know you're running low and it just another drink will appear in your hand and it's like what am I, the king of Siam?

This is unbelievable.

Like this is so wonderful.

Uh yeah, to seek to show hospitality like that to folks.

Yeah, and I think that's like a that's like a gifting too.

Um you can totally see that in them.

Yeah, totally see it.

And then I know like me and Paige, we're probably more on the struggle side of that.

Yeah, because we're so introverted.

Totally.

Just like I we just want to be alone.

Yes.

So that's like uh every Sunday I you gotta preach to yourself.

We're gonna go be welcoming.

We're gonna go just love on people.

Yes.

And then you do it, and it feels great.

Yeah, totally.

It feels way better than you ever think it does.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, for sure.

And that's where it's like the guard there is like show hospitality without grumbling.

Yeah, exactly.

Do it cheerfully.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yep.

And that's an act of faith and trust in the Lord.

Yeah.

What he's called me to is good.

Yep.

And then there's this sort of shift towards the how this body relates to the world.

Like, how does it, you know, you formed this body, and what type of environment is it in?

Hostile.

Oh, totally.

There's a lot of hostility towards it.

There's germs and sharp objects and hippos.

Hippos.

There's hippos out there.

There's hippos on the world with you right now.

Same continent, too.

Same continent.

I was saying.

Same state.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's yeah, several.

And right now we got them under control, but that could break down at any moment.

I've seen Planet of the Apes.

Yeah, that's right.

Bless those who persecute you.

Bless and do not curse them.

Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.

Live in harmony with one another, do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly.

Never be wise in your own sight.

Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.

If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.

To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him.

If he is thirsty, give him something to drink, for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

So these are those those princ continuing those principles for the body to hold together.

And it's blessing those who persecute you, bless and do not curse them.

That means seeking the good for those who are against you in seeking good.

That's you want good for them.

Like you want to win for their good.

Yeah.

That's that's why.

Yeah.

You know, it's this odd thing.

It's like, and right now it feels it's like you're um an analogy I heard is like there's a cat on a rock in the middle of a river.

Yeah.

And you save the cat, but the cat's just scratching you the whole time.

Yeah.

And you're like, you know, trying to protect yourself from the cat and stuff.

But um, but it's like this is free look, look, cat, you might say.

You you're gonna it it's best if I win this struggle.

Yeah.

Because you're gonna not be stuck on this rock in the middle of the river again.

The cat doesn't the cat thinks it's harmful.

Yeah.

But you you do what's good, and that's blessing.

Yeah, so it it uh it aligns with say the impregatory psalms.

Yeah.

It's because oftentimes we could think of this as like bless is only the meekness and cursing is everything opposed to it.

Yeah.

Um but that's not what it is.

Blessing looks like seeking the good.

Yes.

Um and so it comports with the whole of the uh biblical scope, you could say.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, so there's so Jesus in his meekness is praying in precatory psalms.

Totally, yeah.

You know, for the good of his enemies.

Yeah.

That the things that they want they might never get.

Yep.

And the ends that they're seeking, they might lose and be destroyed in those ends.

Yep.

And then there's a goodness that they might even receive.

Yeah.

On the other side of that.

Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.

Rid you weep with those who weep is easier than rejoicing with those who rejoice.

Totally.

Just pro tip.

Oh yeah.

But when you can rejoice together, you can celebrate the good things that are happening in each other's lives, you know, and just like good stuff, like promotions, raises, new cars, yeah, like the the like uh new house, another kid, the um the things that should just like make you rejoice, just like as a person.

We should rejoice with one another alongside that.

Yeah.

You know, the others' gain is no threat to us.

You know, it's wonderful.

Celebrate it.

Um live in harmony with one another.

What does your saying, verse 16, KJV?

What does the Bible say?

Be of the same mind one toward another.

Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate.

Be not wise in your own conceits.

Yeah.

So so be of one mind.

Yeah.

You know, seek this is returning to that, like the shape of the body is unity.

Yeah.

That's exactly of one mind in the Lord together.

How does that affect a church's doctrine?

It it doctrine is is the mechanism by which we do this.

So when we articulate together sound doctrine of what the here's how we say what the Bible says, here's the pattern of words by which we describe the scriptures, then we're conforming our minds together so that we're able to hold that unity.

So it happens in like the Apostles' Creed.

Exactly.

Exactly.

When we say that together, we are become we are practicing the unity of the body, practicing being of one mind.

And when we uh you know seek to be conformed to the implications of a creed like that, uh we're we're gaining the health of the unity of the body.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's not an effortless task.

Like it's like love.

It's not an effortless task.

It's not something that you it is received, but it's like but you also do it.

Right.

And so that means that where there's disunity in our mind and in our thinking, we ought to expect that we'll need to work towards resolution of this.

Yeah.

We'll need to work towards something that we can share in this.

And uh that is good and beautiful and perfect.

That's good and acceptable and perfect.

That that's the um uh so it's so it's effortful, you know.

The there's there's antibodies in a healthy body.

Um and sound doctrine is the uh mechanism by which we uh uh maintain that unity.

Yeah.

Um that's uh that's how we do it.

So that's why it's so important to have explicit doctrinal statements.

Yeah, so important to have explicit written down confessions that we hold together.

It's why, like when you're not a confessional church, this you're a time bomb.

Yeah, exactly.

Because there is there are doctrines that are winning or losing, but they can't be made explicit and they're subject to change at any time.

Yeah.

But when it's like, hey, here's the pattern of words that have been handed down to us, we're seeking to conform ourselves to this.

Now we're we're doing the effort towards unity.

Yeah.

Which is why one of the most exciting things that I've you know hoped to lead the church in and hope to see develop within our church is the sense of becoming a confessional church.

Yeah.

That there is a pattern of sound doctrine that's been handed down to us, and we should seek to conform to it as a body.

Yeah.

That's that seeking that health and unity.

Um yeah, don't be haughty, but associate with the lowly.

Never be wise in your own sight.

This is so necessary for a body to work together.

Uh the sense of you could you could gain from any part, the greater needs the lesser.

Yep.

Like the lesser needs the greater.

Uh repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honourable in the sight of all.

If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

Great advice.

That's a Ecclesiastes.

Yeah, that feels never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God.

For it is written, Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.

To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him.

If he is thirsty, give him something to drink.

For by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

What do you think about that?

It's pretty based.

Yeah, it is.

Keep burning coals on him.

Keep burning coals, yeah.

Yeah, it's pretty it's a cool way to put that.

Yeah, exactly.

I wouldn't have thought of that.

I would yeah, it's pretty something boring or something, you know.

Yeah.

Um well it's all it's it's a it's a comfort to know all of the Lord's promises.

Um when the Lord promises something, you can stake everything on it.

Yeah.

And he's promising right here, vengeance is mine, I will repay.

Yes.

Every wrongdoing against you will be repaid.

Yes.

So don't go try and get it for yourself.

Exactly.

It's not yours.

Yeah.

It's not yours.

And vengeance can be sneaky.

You know, vengeance can take the form of like abdication or writing off.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, it's like they're making bad decisions.

I hope it just goes bad for them.

And I never have to deal with them, and I can just stand back and watch it go bad.

Yeah.

Like that's uh that can be a shape of vengeance.

Yeah.

Where you're trying to accomplish it.

Or what I'm trying to describe is like this isn't there's such a thing as passive vengeance.

Yeah.

Especially towards those within the body.

Oh, totally.

Yeah, there's such a thing as passive vengeance.

And so leaving vengeance to the Lord could be one way that could show itself is you uh not seeking the like renewal of a friend's mind in uh waywardness.

Right.

Likewise, it could be you can't let something go and you're you're trying to destroy them.

Yeah.

You know, and you're caught up in uh tearing down their reputation around others, or um that's uh uh that's a thing.

You know, gossip, oh totally, yeah.

Tearing down other people's reputations, not not being protective of um uh people's lives.

Uh we have such power over one another.

Yeah.

Um and it it that should be used in such a way where we are not seeking vengeance on one another, even for wrongs done to us, because we know it the Lord's going to do that.

Yeah, he'll do it.

And it's not an it's not a a um uh abandonment of justice.

Right, right.

Because it's it's putting justice where it belongs, which is to the Lord.

It's rightly ordering it, yeah.

And so then the response is uh to our enemies, uh if he's hungry, feed him.

If he's thirsty, give him something to drink.

For by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.

Those are proximal things.

Yeah.

You know, like feeding and giving water.

Um those are those are things that take proximity.

Yeah.

Means you have to go dangerous places.

Yeah.

You have to go dangerous places.

And you know, there I I I don't want to neuter the practicality of it, of like there's there's practical, like offer care.

Right.

You know, uh but also like what water do we have but the water of life?

What bread do we have but the word of God?

Like that's what it means.

Yeah.

Uh and so we we should seek to share those with our enemies.

Yeah.

Imagine the level of hatred you must have to uh not long for the repentance of your enemy.

Yeah.

That's what it is, where it's like you should seek peace with who you can have peace with.

Yeah.

Um, that their minds might be changed, conform to peace with God.

Yeah.

All implications, all in the same pattern of what Paul's been describing from the beginning of chapter 12, uh, which is the transform mind by what he's shown to us of what Christ has accomplished on our behalf.

And this transforms our mind by his word.

Um, so yeah, I think that's good.

Yeah.

Love it.

Love it.

Great job, Gibson.

See you all next time for Romans thirteen.

Thank you and goodbye.