From Depressed Freelancer to a New York Times Documentary with Joel McGinty

speaker-0: Welcome to Creative Chapel, a podcast exploring the vast landscape of Christian artistry. Across denominations and disciplinary mediums, Creative Chapel is building a space where saints can gather and celebrate their walk with Christ with their God-given gifting, encouraging each other in their faith and their craft. Creative Chapel is the place for inspiration, curation, and revelation. Hello, and welcome to Creative Chapel. I'm your host, Chris Mack. And today I'm joined by filmmaker Joel McKintie. ⁓ he is an all-around filmmaker with experience doing narrative, documentary, and ⁓ founding a group that's very near to my heart, the Faith and Film Group here in San Diego. ⁓ and that's how we got connected. And so he has a ⁓ wealth of information and experiences to pull from. And we've name-dropped you so many times on the show that I feel A shame that we're so far into it and haven't had you on, but Joel, welcome to the show. ⁓

speaker-1: Thank you. Yeah. An honor to be here. ⁓ I think it's it's great having talked to you beforehand of like this con concept and how you were gonna do it and what you were thinking and here it is. You know, I've listened to several episodes already and it's it's cool to be a part of it. Like it's humbling. So thank you.

speaker-0: Yeah, thanks. And yeah, we had a conversation before right before I launched Creative Chapel about ⁓ just the journey and what you were seeing me like build up to and I really appreciated that. ⁓ I think in the show I've mentioned a little bit of like behind the scenes of my life of like just kind of the the stressors of ⁓ awkward employment situations and just disappointments with film journey and so you were a really great voice in a a season where I was ⁓ needing good encouragement and so I really appreciate that. ⁓ and so I'd love for you to just like tell us your story a little bit, with you know introducing the audience to you. ⁓ if you want to kinda talk about your creative journey and your spiritual journey, where those in intersect, where those diverge, ⁓ just let us know your testimony. Okay.

speaker-1: So I grew up in church going to ⁓ a Nazarene church in in Point Loma and I I I was saved like early, you know, my my great grandparents were part of the Nazarene church and went to that college and so my parents moved to San Diego ⁓ to attend that college. And so I grew up my home church was the church on that campus. ⁓ so I have l multi generations of just being in the faith and ⁓ And it and so I think it was around high school is when I really faith wise was was like awakened to I've gotta make this my own. ⁓ I believe all these things, but why do I believe all these things? Like why do I see all these other people groups that are just like me, but they they have a different disposition and and very, very different, you know. And ⁓ my mom grew up in the mission field and in high school she she ⁓ became like missions president of our church and and sent ⁓ a mission team, short term mission team, to Honduras because the hurricane had gone through and basically ⁓ wiped out the infrastructure of that country and set it back like ten, twenty years. That's crazy. ⁓ yeah, so there was a massive global effort around that. Anyway, she went and was like, the next time we go, I have to take you. And that was my first international experience. And seeing outside of me, ⁓ my country, what I've known, you know, I'd gone to TJ on on things in high school and that's its own thing. ⁓ but to see a completely different culture, ⁓ a language I didn't understand, you know, ⁓ and them coming from a place of faith of the same faith. ⁓ and and how did they engage Jesus and how did they do all these things. So that that got me thinking ⁓ about my faith at the same time. I was ⁓ kind of thinking about, you know, where do you go to school? What am I interested in? I'd done a lot of video with friends just growing up. Like my dad had bought when I was maybe four, bought this VHS recorder that was like it had the it was a satchel, like the VHS tape was recording and there was a cable to the camera and it was this like E and G kind of style and he filmed everything.

speaker-0: I've only seen that in movies but I I recognize that. That's awesome though. It's so cool.

speaker-1: grew up with that. So it was like, you know, ⁓ that led to me f somehow figuring out that I c if I hit it, if I hit record like quickly, like almost at the same time twice, it would record like two frames. And I started doing animation. And then I got into that and was making videos home videos with friends and we were blowing things up and shooting each other. You know, like how do how do we create not with guns, but like ⁓ How do we create gunshot wounds? How do we create explosions that look real with air compressors and fireplace ashes? How do we do all these things? And special effects were really interesting. So ⁓ at that time, I was like, what do I want to do? ⁓ I like drawing, I like story, I like comic books, I like movies, I like these things, like what's the thing? And ⁓ and I felt at a at a summer camp, I think I was I I think I was a s junior going into senior year. of of high school and this guy came and he was an actor and he talked about being called to Hollywood and I felt like a resonance with that. ⁓ I I I remember being in a time of worship and I remember feeling like God was like hearing his voice be like, I'm calling you there. I'm calling you to this. And I didn't really have a a box for hearing God's voice. ⁓ but when then when we went and shared about camp. You know, we had we would get like the Sunday service at night where it was like the the the kids could share about their experience at camp. And I remember going up and telling people like, hey, I this is what I experienced and I feel called to Hollywood. And ⁓ one of my friends' moms was there and she gave me the first prophetic word I've ever had. And I didn't really understand that's what it was at the time. But But she was like, I saw I saw you take the stage like at an awards show. I saw you, like when you went up to share, it was the stage was like six steps to get to the to the podium. ⁓ she was like, I saw you in this other space. And it was it was like you were not only were you in it, but like you had influence in that in that ⁓ industry. And so I I've always kept that with me whenever I felt like, ⁓ man, maybe this isn't. Yeah. Isn't for me. I go back to that and I was like, that was the first time I really felt something. And then outside of myself, God confirmed it, ⁓ shortly thereafter. And so from there I I went to, you know, I was like, ⁓ USC, like UCLA, where do I go? New York film school, LA film school. ⁓ and I ended up going to Point Loma, which felt like a concession, almost like, ⁓ I grew up here, like am I going here because it's comfortable? But I really wanted something that was Christi a Christian environment. Mm-hmm. ⁓ I would say at that time I was probably a little sheltered in in it. So I was kind of looking for that safety of like growing up in in that. ⁓ I'm an introvert by nature, so it's hard for me to like it takes a lot out of me to make friends, and I was really insecure at that time. And so it was like there's a lot of things driving me to the comfort zone. And so I went to Point Loma ⁓ because they had a semester film program in Hollywood. And it was like if you get in. Like you have to apply, it's this whole thing. If you get in, it's 40 students a semester in in the like basically they're on the back lot of Universal and Warner Brothers. They were like right in that space. And ⁓ I ended up getting that, which allowed me to have the film studies emphasis in a broader calm thing. And so in that time, I I had like a internship at Burns and Sawyer and was just in cameras, because everything else in that. film school was really geared towards producers and directors and actors. And ⁓ and I was like, I like cameras, like and they were like, we have an internship at a camera house. So so I I went there and just learned all the stuff. They they threw me through every department. I learned how to calibrate like lenses and film magazine tension and H D was coming out at that time. So they were having workshops about like these new H D cameras and and ⁓ and and I remember then going I really like like the hands-on elements of this stuff. And and I don't even think I was thinking about cinematography, but I was thinking about ⁓ and I I would read on my lunch breaks I'd go into my car and I'd read American Cinematographer and I'd just I was like, I don't even understand this. Like I don't understand the vision three film stock, like ⁓ Terminator Three was out at that time and it was just like I remember reading about film grain structure and ha what they used at nighttime and they were shooting all these things this certain way and and I remember thinking One day I'll understand this stuff. And I just kept going at it. And so out of that, I became a pretty good AC, first AC, second AC, and ⁓ got to work on some student films. But anyway, I feel like I'm getting a little too far into the weeds. But where I then left school, I was like, what do I do? ⁓ my job, I was working at ⁓ local Fox affiliate here, ⁓ not too far from here actually. And ⁓ And that was news, which is what not what I wanted to do, but it was a job and it was production and it was a good group of people and I really liked that. ⁓ but I was like, how do I do this film stuff? And and this tension of like, okay, if I go there, I went to Hollywood. It wasn't the dark evil place I thought, you know, that everyone is like afraid of and and I I knew that going in. I'd been around LA, I've family in LA, like I I knew the area. ⁓

speaker-0: Which I like as a Midwesterner, I think probably the in-between points from you know everything between New York and ⁓ California probably has an association with those two places of like den of sin, anti-Christian, don't go there. But like, you know, being here in in San Diego and like just ex encountering more people in LA too, it's like you know it's like Christians are everywhere. It's w it's funny that we have like this mindset. Right. ⁓ it's just mostly the the culture. Around it is so loud that's like we have these assumptions, but yeah. Thanks for being an early listener of the Creative Chapel podcast. As a new show, it means so much that you're here. Please like, subscribe, and download our episodes to keep the momentum going. And share it with a friend who could use encouragement in their creative journey. Alright, back to the show.

speaker-1: So like to to that point, you know, I was in this film school ⁓ and there were people from other Christian colleges all around. And ⁓ and some of them were like my church was like, hey, you know, you're we gotta we gotta really pray for you that you don't get sucked into the darkness. You know, and it it was such an interesting thought. In the moment I was like, ⁓ those people are so conservative and narrow-minded. And and at it and and the The irony, I suppose, is like the school I went to, Point Loma, had a reputation at the time, and maybe still does, of being in the denomination a very liberal school. But then within its settings or of San Diego, it's a very conservative school. And it's it's gotten more away from that. But i it it is one of those things where you're like, it's so weird because you're you sit in this perception of two different things that are telling you you're You're one thing or the other and they're very different from each other. You kind of sit there and you go, Yeah, what am I? And I think that is at probably been a huge theme in my life is where do I fit? Where where am I? Am I this or am I that? You know, ⁓ I had I had the support of my family in studying film, but my dad was always very much like, What are you doing that is, you know, that's not supporting all that evil? Like how how are you you know, I would have a lot of ⁓ just conflict with him around certain things about like, ⁓ if you're studying film, are you reading enough books? Are you doing enough things? Like don't just watch movies, don't just you know, and and ⁓ so I saw like, okay, well, am I shielding myself to the point of ignorance or am I shielding myself out of fear? Am I sh and I and over time I've gotten to this place where I'm like and I think this is kinda why I started Faith in Film. was to be like, so much of the church doesn't know how to commission the artist. ⁓ so much is said towards artists ⁓ of like your craft is best served in the church and if you go outside, you're like you're gonna get brainwashed and sucked into that culture. And that can be true if you're not if you're not aware of your identity, if you're not locked into to Jesus. Yeah. Like A lot of I've I d the ones that I would see kind of disengage in in Christ didn't have a strong relational connection. It was a belief connection only. and and so yeah, if you're gonna do that and you're gonna walk into those places and you see it in colleges now and you can still see it pretty much anywhere you go, you're a malleable person that will take on whatever's around you and it will shift your thinking. And it's not that you can't be influenced in your thinking, but when it comes to core beliefs and it comes to faith. Like if you don't have something beyond your own thoughts that is guiding that, then you're gonna you're gonna shift.

speaker-0: Yeah. Which I think is so important even just as an artist. What you can you know, whether a a believer or not believer, it's so important to fill yourself with things that are going to make you a critical thinker in general. Yeah. ⁓ but you know, especially as a Christian, I you know, I don't I don't know where the line is of like, should every artist be super into apologetics, ⁓ or, you know, should they be ready to like get onto a debate with anybody. I think there's an argument to be made that, you know, they they don't have to be. But yeah. I do think y you should know what you believe and why you believe it and likewise be growing into ⁓ you know the depths of your faith ⁓ and and knowing ⁓ just how that which is resonating with you, what is convicting you, yeah. ⁓ and letting that stir your creativity of like, can I create out of that place and be vulnerable here without also glorifying aspects that, you know, shouldn't be glorified. ⁓ yeah. But yeah.

speaker-1: I I think, you know, when you artists artists can can sometimes not know what's appropriate to process publicly and process internally. Yeah. ⁓ and I think that that's there's a tension there, like what's what's relevant, what's helpful for people. You know, ⁓ what I think is is useful is i if you're in the middle of something, broadcasting that out on social is may be helpful, but I think what would be more helpful is being on the other side of that and then saying this is this is what I've been thinking through, this is what I'm dealing with, and this is where I've landed. ⁓ as opposed to I don't know, no it just depends on who your audience is, I suppose. But but ⁓ what I anyway, one of the things that I I I think a lot about and I I still think is vital is to s is to go the artist has a calling. ⁓ the filmmaker has a calling and very few have had their church community and leadership lay hands on them and send them, commission them, like they do pastors and to say, We see the call of God on your life, and so we send you forth. And that is really profound and and missing. And I I think that's something that I I would love to do more of. ⁓ And and hopefully can through Faith and Film and that group and just being just kind of saying to people like, You're you're you're not here because of chance. ⁓ if you're in faith, then the Creator's leading you. Like God is leading you, Holy Spirit's leading you. Jesus cares about the things that you do. He's put these dreams inside you, not to make you hear sick, but to pull you into something and to to you know, to create hope around what could be and where you're going and and usually most people have a vision beyond like survival mode. ⁓ you may start there, but but then it's like, ⁓ there's this story that's in me, I gotta tell it. Or there's ⁓ you know, even people that are in cogs in the system, if you will, like ⁓ like second ACs or whatever, they're just the doers of the thing, ⁓ they all have dreams, they all have things, they all have projects they wanna do. They all have like, ⁓ it would be nice to Yes, I'm doing all these shows, but they're looking towards maybe I'll be a first AC on a show and run a department. You know, like there's there's always something that you're going towards that is greater than where you're at. And ⁓ I think one of the things that I've that I've seen a lot of is is especially lately has been kind of this meandering, this nomadic spirit in in ⁓ filmmakers right now, where they're l they're kind of like where do I where do I focus? Where do I put my hand to? Where where do I go? And to me that's an invitation to like, well what's God telling you? Mm-hmm. If he's silent, what was the last thing he's told you? You know, if you're if you're in this business, if you're in any business, but especially film, ⁓ the the the volatility of the market in the workplace, like people will chase cities, you know, they'll go to Atlanta and then it's drying up in Atlanta, we're going to Nashville. Yeah. And then you just

speaker-0: Yeah yeah.

speaker-1: Just bounce around. And that's fine as long as like you're at peace with that. ⁓ but it's it's like that are we looking where's the stability? Are if you're chasing stability, good luck. Like the best way to find stability is really in Christ. 'Cause then like Paul says, like I can I can have a lot, I can have nothing, I can I can be without clothes or I can be you know, I can be free, I can be in prison and and I'm I'm sustained. Like I am Okay.

speaker-0: Yeah, I have I have friends who kinda like see my journey and have seen the ups and downs of it of of I mean ever since twenty twenty, ⁓ I feel like employment across America has been weird, ⁓ but especially in the creative field. that it's just like in and out of jobs due to budget cuts, due to wrong fits, due to whatever. And that the whole idea of like security, I feel like in today's world is kinda like out the window unless you do manual labor. ⁓ right. Which is self-employed. Yeah. ⁓ and so you know, I have people in my life who who would probably encourage me to do something safe, but it's an then I hear it's like, ⁓ my company's doing layoffs and it's like what happened to that security you were talking about? Yeah. Now you're like every like six months you're like freaking out. ⁓ and so or it's like I've just been freaking out for, you know, the past few years. Yeah. Right.

speaker-1: Usually, right. And and and here you are. Like you there's You gotta keep going. You're just you just keep going. Like what's the alternative? Give up and die. Right. I suppose. Like and maybe that's the core of fear around a lot of things is is I'm gonna fail and die. ⁓ that keeps us from doing ⁓ some of those taking some of those risks or you know, ⁓ yeah yeah, well I I could go one way. But ⁓ so okay, going back to ⁓ this tension, I wanna hit this tension of like faith And work or calling, destiny, right? And

speaker-0: I don't know if this can help guide a little bit, but you mentioned something I think is really powerful in that it's like it's like what did God say? And if he's silent, what was the last thing he says? I feel like so often, especially me in this season, I can just be like, Well, God's silent and he's always been silent and I haven't heard him in weeks or months. ⁓ but I fail to go back to like just when you were even talking about the prophecy spoken over you as ⁓ a a kid, ⁓ It's like it made me remember a prophecy that I encountered in college, ⁓ that I've always like had a certain level of skepticism to, but also like it's still stuck with me. Yeah. ⁓ and so it's that in and of itself is such a great reminder of of going back to like if you if you are in a drought or a season in the desert that it feels like there's silence, just being able to recall like God has spoken something to you and you can hold tightly to that even when it feels like he feels distant or silent. Right. Right. And so I don't know if that like generates any new thoughts or stems into the the conviction between faith and film. But I really appreciated that.

speaker-1: Yeah, no, I I ⁓ I think about desert seasons or, you know, wilderness moments. And I I think I it's interesting, right, 'cause you have kind of two examples that we'll we talk a lot about. One is the Israelites and their wanderings and going through the wilderness. ⁓ and then you've got Jesus, you know, forty years, forty days, mm-hmm. ⁓ both led by By God. You know, both were pulled out from. ⁓ the intention of the Israelites was to go and worship. And there wasn't anything beyond that. There was almost this idea of we'd go but we'd come back. But Pharaoh was like, no, like you can't, you can't leave. And it was like, you can't hit the stipulation, we'll we'll disempower you, so we'll go. And then it was like, well, now they're all gone, so let's just carry on. And Then it was like, ⁓ it was for a set time for them to actually cross over and and then take the promised land. And it's it it's interesting to me the our perception of God in these stories. Because I I think about this, and you're like, ⁓ you think of Sinai and you think of the law and you know, God being like, I'm gonna wipe them all out. I'm gonna start over with you, Moses. And he's like, ⁓ whoa, whoa, you know, and then you start to see this pattern of like God, God's God's judgment coming upon the people. But that was all predicated on them refusing God. He drawed he drew them out and said, I will be like, I will be an unconditional God to you, just like I was to Abraham. There was no need for law, there was no need for all these things. It was like, come out and serve me, worship me. And and then you've got this, you know, God descends, and all the people are like, We're gonna die if he talks to us, you talk to him, Moses. And that set this whole re first refusal ⁓ of the people rejecting God's way and what he was offering to them. And he offers them all these different covenants until you get down to a master slave covenant. And they enter that. They say, Yep, let's do that. They're still slaves. ⁓ and so it's the it's the Ten Commandments and everything that happens around that, like. ⁓ the meeting of the elders on on Mount Sinai and all this, the the feast that they have with God, all of that is this covenant thing. So they enter into that. And then it's not reversed until Jesus comes and does the same, almost the same thing, right? He goes out there, goes through that that wilderness time. So I say that to say that I think a lot of the wilderness moments we have are not because God is silent or not willing to speak to us, but But we are somehow buffering something from him. And so then it takes removing us from all the noise, all the distraction, all the things till we're like, okay, I need to hear from you. I need to draw in from you. So I I've I view wilderness ⁓ seasons in life or times in life as invitations to intimacy, as inj invitations like, okay, Holy Spirit, if you are bringing me into this place, it's not to like make me feel like. my world is collapsing, I don't know what to do, but it's to say it's for me to lean in and move forward and to get out of this, to to move through it. And you need that that space. So less of a punishment, more of an invitation to then go higher, to then ascend. So ⁓

speaker-0: Yeah and I think too, for any creatives who are who feel stuck in their creative journey, a a story that I've been revisiting a lot lately is the story of Joseph. Yeah. ⁓ who is a very like that story in and of itself is a very like creatively fueled story. It's a very creatively fueled story. You have a a dude who is interpreting dreams and he's talking about his dreams and God is speaking through symbolism and you know, I I'm of the belief that he still communicates that way. And and for the artists and the dreamers, this is a very inspiring story. But I think we miss the fact that Joseph was locked up in prison for two years. ⁓ and it's like and it just like in one sentence says that and then like moves on to where the story needs to go. But it's like how many times

speaker-1: ⁓ absolutely.

speaker-0: imprisoned did Joseph probably feel like it's like, well, God's just abandoned me. I'm here simply because of ⁓ my brothers hate me and maybe a little bit of my pride. But ⁓ and yet that still sets him up for, you know, where the story ends and and him ⁓ being a figure to help not only his family but like all of Egypt and the surrounding nations. ⁓ and so even whether it's in in desert seasons or in seasons that You might just feel like God is, you know, silent. it's like you said, important just to keep going, have faith, to to trust that there is something working in you and through you. and that ⁓ important to hold on to.

speaker-1: That's it is. It's vital. It it's sometimes your life may depend on it. ⁓ there so when I was ⁓ newly married, ⁓ I followed my wife out to Chicago and she was doing her master's program and so she was full-time student and I was freelancing and I I had quit my job at Fox, moved to a city I I didn't know anybody in, and and was like Doing like ⁓ it's like still thinking about it, it's like, ⁓ my god, ⁓ the the Craigslist searching and you're just like, What is there out there? you know, and it's like, you know, free labor. At the time it was like, you get a DVD of the of the project, you know, and ⁓ and and I I just remember and it was winter and it was freaking cold. I'd never lived in a place where it was like the weather could kill me. and and so it it was it was very ⁓ a very trying time. And ⁓ It was it was just this kind of like I'm in the house by myself, praying mostly, like feeling ineffective. Just like what should I be do I should be working for Domino's pizza. Like I like just what's the lowest base common denominator that just feels like a a a a compromise and a loss. I should be doing that because it's more than just this. Yeah. But I knew like I've got to chase this somehow. And so, ⁓ I I ended up falling in with this guy that that ⁓ was shooting music videos and and ⁓ and it was the most like he was my the way I started and and really started. And through him we I I knew a little bit of lighting, I knew a little bit more than him, and that was enough for him to hire me to do lighting all the time. And and ⁓ and through him we did like, you know, he got more and more jobs and bigger, bigger things. But it was ebb and flow, ebb and flow, ebb and flow. And in that Like it was seven years that that I ran ⁓ freelance. And in the first three ish years, it was very depressing, very hard. I remember winters were terrible because work would just dry up. And ⁓ I would go like I think the longest I went was two months without any any pay. And really having to deal with like I am not my provider. Like God God is my provider. So when I talk about the you gotta keep faith, like it's not it's not just a nice thought. It's like I had to apply this or I'd spiral into depression or I would, you know, just make dumb choices. You know, I would have abandoned my calling, I would have, you know, just done the wrong thing. Yeah. And or curse God and left. You know, like there was this but I couldn't do that. I was in a place where it was like, I've seen too much. I I've I've experienced too much of God to to n to to to leave. So then you're stuck in this place of like, where where do I go? I and and to me what I found helpful in that was to go, I am a son, so what does that mean? It means that he never leaves me, never forsakes me. He's with me. I can't feel him, but I can still praise him. I can go to the Psalms, I can read any of those, just pick a psalm and read it out loud over yourself. Like, and it will shift. The atmosphere, it'll shift the way you feel. It will it will change the way you see your circumstances. And if I so then I started going to the promises of God and it's like then you've gotta understand you are above only and not beneath. You're not subject to your circumstances. Like that is not a gauge of how you're doing in life or your value before God. You may be feeling outside of people, but that doesn't mean that you're an outsider. You know, so it it it it it's a renewing of your mind ultimately. ⁓ that Clinging to faith will renew your mind around what's happening and and then you're the rock in the middle of the storm. And then you can stand ⁓ like Jesus and be like peace to the storm and peace will come. But you've gotta be in that place of elevating what what you believe over what you're feeling. And that was a three and a half year lesson for me. And then it became okay, I can I can ride these waves, I can be really busy and then I'm okay. I'm at peace when things are like, where'd the money go? You know, and then strategy. You start having strategy of how to steward, knowing that those times are gonna come, while anticipating that when the big things come, you don't just go on a crazy cool vacation. You start to go, okay, how how can I budget this out? So ⁓ so that's that's what I mean when it's like it's it's vital. Like my marriage could have fallen apart if I had if I had let that stuff enter my heart and say, ⁓ it like in despair come and all these things, you know. Let me hit on on the the marrying the merging of the two feeling desperate callings. Sure. ⁓ because this was big for me too and it it came down to identity. ⁓ I always felt like there was these two lanes that I was operating in. It was the church world and the work world or the film world. And and I I we were at a vineyard church in Chicago and it was

speaker-0: Yeah, definitely.

speaker-1: That's like where I learned so much. ⁓ that's where I was filled with the Holy Spirit, had a power encounter ⁓ that shifted my life and how ⁓ how real I believed God was. and I was like, I love this, I need it, you know, and and I would be in these seasons where no work would be there and I'd be around church and we just did a lot of church. ⁓ my wife was on the worship team and I got involved in like the prayer ministry team and I was like, this is so great. And then I would be like feeling like, ⁓ this is I feel good and then boom, I'd be gone for like two months and then I'd come back and I'd feel like so depleted, you know? And ⁓ and then I started to realize, ⁓ I'm taking a lot when I'm in work, I'm taking a lot of my own self-value from how well I do. How well how well did I like that scene? Did did I get frustrated and lose my temper with the DP? Well like what was the what you know, and I was just like self-judgment or I feel like I'm an outsider, like I don't haven't had time to pray. I don't, you know, I'm with a bunch of unbelievers, like their their cycle is different than mine. ⁓ and then it took me learning identity and going, and no matter what space I am, I am royalty. ⁓ in the kingdom of heaven, if I'm seated in heavenly places, then I'm seated with Christ. And he says that he gives me his authority on this earth. Like we represent him, we're his ambassadors. So what does that mean to be in a film set? And it went from this pressure of like, I've got to pray for people, or I've got to talk to people, or I've got to save people, ⁓ which is never really as an introvert, I'm not like prone to evangelism. ⁓ it takes a lot. And I like sometimes praying with people and and and on the street and doing street ministry and stuff, but it's not my go-to. And then in the set, I remember I had really just been studying that and getting free from ⁓ performance. and going, I am I I am to walk into a set as a Prince of Heaven, and what does that do? I carry myself differently. I can be talked down to and it doesn't bother me because I know my real position. I'm walking into a hierarchy of a set that has ways that things work. And as an electrician, like you're a cog in the and but as a son. I can serve because as a as as one that knows who I am, I'm okay. It's it's fine. I can serve other people around me. I can serve those above me and make sure that in it through service, that's the inversion of the kingdom, you you ascend. And so it set me free from the tension of that. And it I remember this one show was the first time where I had like learned all that stuff and then came on to set. And I felt like this merging, this blending where I was like. There was no other. There was no church world, set world. It was all the same. And I was me in either world. And and and God told me, He was like, hey, I'm not gonna speak to you because I was learning to hear God's voice. And so I would I would like try to hear people, hear for waiters or you know, baristas and give them a word or pray for them and just bless them. ⁓ never try to convert them, but but just bless people. And the Holy Spirit was like, I'm not gonna speak to you on set. while you're working, because it would disrupt. And I'm not here to disrupt. I'm here to bless. And so to bless, you gotta enter a culture to to do that. You've got to understand the culture. And you have to know the right time to do things so you don't offend people. In any if you're doing like missions in another culture, right? You learn it, you understand it, and you honor it. And so I felt like that's what the Holy Spirit was doing in the film set in that culture. And there were these things like I would see things or I'd pick up things and have words and knowledge for people. And it would be during lunch that I could share it. Or be, you know, always after in this in the right moment. And he'd open these windows for either to pray or just to say, Hey, this is what I see, like be encouraged, like chin up, like it's gonna be all right. I saw this is what you're going through. And and God would meet people in that moment. And it was this and it was natural, and it was me. And it was just like it all just all the pressure to perform in the set world and the religious world just went. And it's been, you know, you've I've had to fight it every now and then, but mostly Ever since then it's been I can be who I am and I I don't need to sit down on an airplane and be like, ⁓ gosh, I gotta pray for this person next to me. What am I gonna say to them? You know, that pressure's gone and it's like, God, if you want me to speak to this person, then you'll let me know. Yeah. But

speaker-0: That's so helpful because I you mentioned you tuned in for the the last episode with ⁓ Jordan and we kinda touch on that very thing of like it's hard on a film set to like not be in the zone and not be in the flow state. Yeah. and like acknowledge Jesus in that. Like obviously there's a way that you carry yourself, you try to hold yourself to a standard of of professionalism and that's you know ultimately rooted by the your convictions of faith and how you treat one another, ⁓ and and treating ⁓ treating others how you'd want treat yourself. But, you know, I I can like vividly remember this time on on my short of Sons of Thunder of being like, ⁓ there was a problem where like I was I was getting playback, ⁓ and something didn't look right. And it was the first time I had really like noticed it and so I had to like grab my wife Who was doing crafty at the time, ⁓ and I was like, Hey, I just need to have like a a minor freak out with you. ⁓ that like I haven't checked this one thing and it could be like ruining the film. And I just needed to express that to somebody. and and and to me that was like I look back at that moment of being like, I feel like I executed that well because I could have just started like freaking out at the person whose job it was to handle this thing. Right ⁓ But it was like, you know, I'm not gonna do that, I'm just gonna trust them, but I'm also I need to have like my moment to like just confess like there's some frustration and like I'm freaking out a little bit. Yeah. ⁓ and so like when I think about, you know, being Christ like on set, that comes to mind, which is kinda funny, because in the moment I was just freaking out. But but it's hard, yeah, on a film set especially, and I feel like in in high stress environments, ⁓ it's hard to ⁓ to really tap into the Holy Spirit and be like, okay, God, like, you know. Have your will and way and like I'm gonna clear away everything when it's like there's a fire over here, there's ⁓ you know a argument happening over here, this person's asking for direction for something, ⁓ and it's hard to like really just allow the Holy Spirit to speak in that moment. ⁓ and so I I feel like that that takes pressure off ⁓ creative shoulders from having to like feel the need of like I need to be really good at my job and do my thing, but also I need to evangelize every second. And I linked this to ⁓ behind you is the book by Phil Visher, me, myself and Bob, ⁓ where it's the story of Big ID and Veggie Tales. Yeah. And he talks about like how people in his as the company grew, he would have employees who were like very Christian, then he'd have some you know animators who were just like this is just a job. ⁓ and so he'd get those employees trying to evangelize during work hours and and then Phil was getting to this place and be like, that's great. But also like we do have a job to do and we're behind on this deadline and we need you to like kinda lock in here. And then also that person feels awkward because it's a work environment. ⁓ yeah. So it's like an interesting tension there of of you know, when to when to put on the like evangelist hat, ⁓ or like the just the like overt Christian hat, I guess. ⁓ but it sounds like you found freedom and liberty in the Holy Spirit to to just trust him and not feel like the need to perform, ⁓ which I think is super super helpful.

speaker-1: It it's it's it's I mean It's natural to me, you know. It and it it no one likes a an artificial like sell of like, why are you talking to me about this stuff? Like why I remember one time I this lady I was going downtown for something and she was on the corner handing out pamphlets and remember just being like, Well like I felt like Holy Spirit would be like talk to her. And so I was like, Okay, well I'll just talk to you and so it was and in talking to her I felt like I was I I had some things to share about her for her and I was like Can I pray for you? And she was like, if you need to. And I was like, I don't need to. I actually don't need to. And it was an interesting moment of like, yeah, no, I'm like, I'm fine if this is as far as it goes. I I don't need anything from you. But some people do. And some people have this pressure of like, get get the souls. And that's great if that's like their their their mission. ⁓ but not everyone's like that. And I feel like ⁓ the church I grew up, the co church culture I grew up in, it was like that was such a heavy emphasis.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: It was almost repelling. And then you get into that world of of film and it's like it's very repelling. Everyone's like, just shut up, like I'm fine. And you know what? Unless God's chasing them down in their dreams, let ⁓ be. ⁓ and unless you have a directive to be like, go after this person. Yeah. You're getting dreams about them or you just can't like stop thinking about them. But really gauge, like why? Is it because I need to feel like I'm obeying God and I need to be okay? Or is it because The Lord is speaking to me.

speaker-0: Yeah, like a like a cultural guilt and not a spiritual conviction. Exactly. ⁓ and that's that's super hard to differentiate from and and figure out which is the Holy Spirit and what is your soul. Yeah. But ⁓ yeah.

speaker-1: Still still pr for people sometimes I'm like that that was me. Yeah. I'm sorry.

speaker-0: Which like, you know, the Holy Spirit's like, I can still use it, so it's gonna be good. Well, I wanted to ⁓ pivot to talk a little bit about ⁓ some of the projects that you worked on. Last night I got to explore your website a little bit and I came across your

speaker-1: Absolutely. And he does, he does, you're right. ten years old. Ever since I got my job I kinda let it go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway. But

speaker-0: ⁓ you had a really cool project on there that was released by the New York Times, which is like it's kind of a big deal. And that ⁓ short doc was ⁓ Contaminated Memories, yeah, which ⁓ was you know, I watched it and it was at at first I'm like, ⁓ I know exactly where this is going. And then it hits a point, and I'm like, that's the complete opposite direction that I thought this was gonna go. ⁓ and it it seems like you had a series of these films ⁓ in and ⁓ You said a four part doc ⁓ on wrongful convictions. Yeah. ⁓ and so I don't know if that ⁓ was a part of that series, but ⁓ it was so well shot and so well done. ⁓ and then, you know, having something that's released through such a known entity as the New York Times is ⁓ a pretty big deal. I'd love to know like the story of how you got involved in that, ⁓ the process of working on it and and more of ⁓ kind of like just the the practical film side of that.

speaker-1: Yeah, sure. ⁓ I I love this project. ⁓ it's probably one of the things I'm the most proud of of things that I've done. and I think it was probably one of the first projects in documentary where I was just the cinematographer and I wasn't, you know, cutting it and editing or like directing or anything like that. ⁓ and so it was a huge ⁓ enjoyment for me. And and right now it's in post, so ⁓ there's the pilot episode is locked. The other three are getting ⁓ grading and I think sound and and music done right now. So it's like so close. But but ⁓ it's been eleven years. So I got I got involved with that because my wife, when we first got married, she had like sh she had so many jobs, like at least six jobs. And ⁓ one of them was at a gym. And ⁓ we were in in Evanston and and ⁓ Northwestern's university, my my wife went to. Got her master's there. And people that came to the gym was this couple that that ran film ⁓ programs at Northwestern. And ⁓ and so I did a short film for one of the profs. And and he ⁓ his wife had a ⁓ this documentary that she was working on, and she she ran the MFA program in documentary filmmaking. And so after the short film, she was hey. Do you ever do green screen work? I have this interview that I want to do. And I had just done a bunch of green screen stuff with the Blackhawks and and Chevy dealers. And so it was, I was like, Yep, that's been my world. I can totally do that. And so she's like, We're just, I'm just, I have this story, I want to interview this lady. And so we sat for geez, like six or seven hours and shot this interview. and that was it. That was kind of like that was my involvement. And and a couple months later she called back and said, Hey, I I I'm looking at this and I wanna shoot ⁓ the scenery. I wanna go up to the location where this event happened and and I wanna time try to tie in visuals to this thing. And so ⁓ that kind of grew into let's let's take some time with Penny, the main character, ⁓ who who's sharing about when she was assaulted and ⁓ what she remembers of it. So we we ended up spending, I think, three days up in Manitowac. and ⁓ in Wisconsin and and we just shot B-roll, we shot an interview with her and her husband and then eventually we just kinda realized you none of the it's disruptive to cut to the ⁓ the interview itself. Yeah. Let's just use the soundtrack. And so then it became this really creative collaboration with her of like how do we tell the story visually based on what she's saying. Do we like how do we get these these this feeling, this tone. Without ⁓ being too on the nose about things. And so then she was like, I don't have actors. It was me, her, and her husband, ⁓ Deb Tolczynski and Dave Tolczynski. And we just drove up there with a sound person, and and we we just kind of looked around and they recorded sound and they would go off, and Dave would record sound ⁓ sometimes. And then I was just kind of set free and I was just like got B-roll and was like, this is what I'm kind of capturing, you know, and should come and find me and be like, let's get shots of this. And and we we kind of realized it became this really interesting conversation around the visuals being, you know, it's it's it's contaminated memories. It's I remember things a certain way, but it it was it that way? And how do I how clear is it? And so we started talking about macro. using ⁓ at the beach instead of just wides all the time, like finding I think there's a shot in there where we're on the beach, but I'm focused on the reeds that are blowing in the wind. And it was just like, I don't know, just let's play. So it was very playful in how we set it up, but it was very intentional. ⁓ and then it would just be like these little things, hey, hey, you got three hours to come over? Like I've got a kitchen knife. I need that I need a shot of the kitchen knife. We're gonna I have this jacket and I like the zippers. And so we'd get like a macro lens and put adapters on front of that like to to distort the image even more and just get this look. And and I really liked what she she ⁓ the package that she got it was an FS5 with Sigma art ⁓ lenses and then we recorded all of it to a an Odyssey. So it was it was like raw. ⁓ we were shooting raw and it was some massive files. But something about it gave it this look and I haven't found that in you know same camera different lenses it just never looks the same. Same camera, same lens without the Odyssey, it just didn't look the same. I don't know, it was so weird. But ⁓ we we just I established a trust with with Deb that was ⁓ just one of those things where it was like, hey, I've got a couple days, let's go shoot this interview in San Francisco. Are you free? And it would be like, ⁓ I don't know if I can make it work. And she'd be like, okay, well I'll see if I can push the dates so we can work together. And it's been like that for the last ten years and ⁓ it's it's amazing and I really believe in the project. Like I I like I learned a lot shooting this. I learned it was really interesting when we were all over the place, we were telling different people's stories. We told an entire story that's not in it, just didn't work out. But ⁓ to see the amount that the level of ⁓ wrongful convictions that have happened and then to to kind of go back and be like Well, what's going on? How how easy is it to be convicted of a crime you didn't commit? And then it get we got into really the the the focus of the whole series is like, can you trust your memory? Yeah. And can you ⁓ then say in a court of law, given how faulty memory is, can this testimony be enough to convict somebody and sentence them to death? As one one of the stories that we tell happened. Guy was sure that he he wasn't even sure. He just said, maybe I could have done it. And that was enough to put him on death row. And it's like he was exonerated through DNA evidence or through another confession ⁓ of someone else, like, but he spent all this time in prison for it, thinking he was gonna die. Like it's just the things these people go through. ⁓ I think it's really important to tell that story. And so I I'm I'm glad that it's gonna get out there. And it and the New York Times picked it up because it bec a as Deb kind of told the story, Netflix came out with ⁓ Making a Murder and it's that story. ⁓ wow. You know, it's the same it's it's Penny's not in that that that show. ⁓ she didn't she didn't join that, but it that story is told from the wrongfully convicted man that that she identified. And so ⁓ so that that made Depp kinda go, That there's my story. Like what what what's my story then? And so it was like it has to be broader. So sh we take a look at ⁓ the the the legal system. We we spend some time with cops, we talk to professors, we talk to lawyers, we talk to ⁓ the Innocence Project, all these people and we tell some stories of people that were wrongfully convicted and exonerated. And ⁓ And tell their stories across this four part series. ⁓ and and to me it matters because justice is important. Like God is a God of justice. And and like, you know, political affiliations aside, you have to look at these things and go, where can we what what can we do better? Because it's not good enough. Not if not if this is what's happening. ⁓ and so yeah, so I care a lot about it. ⁓ so anyway, so at that point we took all of that and said Pennies is the most complete piece and she created a ⁓ a short film for run for fundraising the the the feature at the time which has now become a series and that ⁓ at the time was was being ⁓ handled by a Kartimkin and they do like they went Oscar's for documentaries and so someone there put it in front of New York Times and they said yes we're actually wanting to do things with a documentary and so it was one of the early opdoc pieces that New York Times put out.

speaker-0: Nice. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, it's such a a powerful piece and to, you know, garner the attention of of something like the New York New York Times I feel like puts wind the in the sales for like getting it out there. ⁓ and it is such an an important topic that I feel like in today's world, ⁓ it's I feel like this is a very justice minded generation. And it's ready to pull the trigger on just accusations. Yeah. Yeah. and it's tough because you know, even as somebody who has heard a lot of ⁓ stories from women in college who have gone through abuse and things like that and have never found justice or never even been acknowledged or or or their voice be squandered, it's it's like that does kind of generate your heart to be like at the at the drop of the accusation, believe it. ⁓ because there's so many untold stories. But but then you enter into a process like this where it's like Penny's story, she like intentionally is like, I need to remember this dude's face. I'm going to remember it. It's and then when I get to that stage, like she is mentally preparing for that moment to make the the ⁓ identification. And then she has so much conviction and a ⁓ visceral feeling to seeing this gentleman who ultimately ends up not being the person. ⁓ it's it it does bring an element of like, even in the face of Abuse and tragedies, ⁓ a certain element of patience to ⁓ go through the process. ⁓ and so it's a tough and tricky place to be. ⁓ defin like in the the black and white aspects of of finding justice, you know, this is definitely the gray area of of contaminated memories. Right. ⁓ yeah, I I really hope that the ⁓ the project sees ⁓ the finish line soon 'cause it you know, on top of it just being a fascinating story, your cinematography is great. ⁓ and like that that look that you crafted with with those three elements of the macro lenses and the camera and and the Odyssey ⁓ is really cool. ⁓ and so ⁓ from here I'd love to learn about ⁓ you know when did you start feeling like starting up the Faith and Film group, your plans for it, how that's changed, and ⁓ maybe even like how to, you know, encouraging other people to start their own little group across the country. Yeah. If you're someone who loves apparel that shows your creative side while sharing your faith, I've just the thing for you. Our sponsor, the Printing Ox, has hooked us up with some t-shirts I designed that we're planning to launch later this summer. If you want to support the show, go ahead and pre-order one the shirts. It has the Creative Chapel logo on the front, and on the back it says you were made to create, with the scripture of Revelation 411 underneath. You might even recognize the design from our backdrop here at the studio. If you'd like to pre-order a shirt, visit the link in our description, and if you have any t-shirt needs for your church, business, or event, make sure to hit up my buddy Forrest at the PrintingOx. He does everything with quality and exemplifies the creative chapel spirit. Visit his link in the description as well. Alright, back to the show.

speaker-1: I think th so thinking about Faith Mount, how did it start? ⁓ I had moved to San Diego from Chicago. We were driving by Rosarito and I saw the old Fox studios that are down there that like the that were basically built for Titanic and then created a few other films. And ⁓ they were kind of like run down and empty and defunct, and it was like you could see like weeds on the tops of these these buildings, and I was like, ⁓ man, that's so sad. Like I I went there and I saw You know, I did like the backbot tour and all the things. It was fun. ⁓ like in 2006. Here it is empty. And I felt like I felt like God was like, what if what if the church? What if what if my kids ran this? What if the church the church bought this and and did something with it? And and it got me thinking and I was like,

speaker-0: But

speaker-1: And I couldn't get rid of it. It was just this thought, like, what if what if the church not only did that, but then like because the studio was successful, because there was a different heart behind it, because we don't worship mammon, we do things differently. What if what if the studio actually blessed the city it was in and like improved the streets and built nice parks and without motive, without strings attached, just blessed the place because it was doing well in that place. And it wasn't like What I would see in Central America, where it like this island nation has these crazy resorts, and everybody that works there still lives in corrugated metal, you know, homes. And you're like, what? Like this the disparity, it's so drastic. Like they're not benefiting nearly as much as this nice little corner of an island. And I was like, what if what if we didn't do that? ⁓ and I just keep just kept asking myself that. And I was like, well it would take a lot. And so I started thinking about like, well, what a I'm doing corporate video full time. I'm in San Diego. I don't really know I know some people, but I don't know a lot of people. Like, ha that feels so far away and so other from where I'm at. Like what do I do with that? And I just kept asking God that. And I was on a run one day and ⁓ that came back to my mind and I was just like, God, what what do I do with this? And and I felt like he said, ⁓ what what's in your hand? And I was like, feels like nothing. You know, I I've just got some freelancers that I've been meeting that ⁓ I'm trying to shortlist on our our company that I can just lean to and just say, hey, you know, if I can't go on a shoot or bri come on, I need a second camera person, I can trust them to do a good job. And ⁓ and so I had been building this network of you know, freelance DPs and editors, and ⁓ Chris Francis was one of them and then ⁓ guy Shane Faye was one of them and and ⁓ a few others and I was like they don't know each other and and I felt like I was like take those and and set a table for them help them help them know each other and so I invited I think 30 people at the time and only like six showed up ⁓ to my house. I like my wife and I ⁓ had some ⁓ tacos catered in our backyard and we just set a table Literally set a table for these people. And I said, bring your spouse because I don't want this to be just talking shop. Like I want you to know the person. And to know a person is to know their spouse. and ⁓ and and and let's yes, we can talk shop, but let's get to know each other. And so that's what I did. And and it was like that I did maybe like every three months, ⁓ like whenever people had free time and their schedules aligned, and then a couple of times in, it was like, this is getting bigger than like twenty people can't fit comfortably in my house ⁓ in my living room. Like that's max. And I was like, I don't really want that. And so I was like, let's go to a brewery. ⁓ it's it's free. And then I realized some people don't drink and they're uncomfortable and I like, ⁓ sorry. So then I I ⁓ at that time I ran across some guys at church that had just started a studio and they were like, You can have your event at our studio and ⁓ I like, I'll do that. So it was it was Vibrus Studios in Oceanside. And and I think I it was just a gathering. It was just, it was just a mixture. That's all I ever did is I just said, like get to know each other. And I'd as they came, I'd be like, hey, you need to meet this person. This is what they do. I'd introduce them, and then I move to the next person and I'd do the same thing. And and somewhere in those early ones at Vibrus, someone said, You should probably like. Ask someone, like talk to somebody, do do like an interview with somebody and and have them share their story so that the people that are in this group know what the other is capable of. Because it was getting there's probably like 40, 45 people at one of them. And it was like the groups were like clicks, you know, and it was like, that's fine. I was like, I don't mind that. But but then you this group over here doesn't know what this group does. Yeah. And and it's like It's sometimes you get caught in these conversations and they're really good. It's so hard to break away and make it to the other side. So it was my way, and I had been thinking through that of like, how do I do this? How do I do this? And that kind of validated it for me. So then I shifted that focus to being an interview of like, tell me your story, how like what does faith in film look like in your life? You're in the industry, your person that follows Jesus. How do you marry those? A lot of people have a hard time like reconciling those two worlds. ⁓ what does faith look like for you in in this space and ⁓ and I as I did that I was like this should be called something I was trying to think of all these names and I literally I realized in PowerPoint and I was like well it's about faith and it's about film and I put it up on the on the slide and was like there it is. Yeah. Good enough for today. And this guy walks by and he's like, ⁓ he was he was like picking up gear. He wasn't even part of the event. And he was like, ⁓ faith and film that's really good. And I was like, maybe I'll just keep it. Like It's simple, it's easy to say, and that's exactly what it is.

speaker-0: So yeah. And it it just it it clearly outlines who this event is for. ⁓ like I think about even like marketing this show, it's like I had to come up with a title that was like it's gotta communicate that it's faith and it's creativity, and trying to do that in a way of like the original name I was gonna go with was like Creative Saints podcast, but that was already taken. So was like, I gotta think of something else. ⁓ but you know, it's it's good just like to keep Keep the marketability of it for everyone to understand clearly when they just read it for the first time. But it's such a great event ⁓ that you host. and ⁓ it's com coming up this weekend. So ⁓ excited to be a part of that.

speaker-1: It's good. It's good that we didn't actually end your your ⁓ interview with that topic because then it it became a panel and something that I think will be really good to look at. It's like, how do we do this? How do we navigate the turbulent times and the chaos and not be sinking? Yeah, 'cause we stopped looking at Jesus.

speaker-0: ⁓ so how if if someone's feeling the stir in their spirit to have community, to ⁓ if someone is looking to build community within their creative journey ⁓ and also stir what they feel God is calling them to, what what practical steps would you encourage to starting something like Faith and

speaker-1: ⁓ that's good. I I can speak from what I did and it was literally test the waters and and see what the interest is. ⁓ to see what people are are looking for. ⁓ If everybody kind of knew each other, I don't know that I would have had this. And so I think kind of like what are you building? It's helpful for me to think about it in terms of tables. What table are you setting? And what conversations are you inviting into that space? And like what is it that you want have? I think I think if I if I look at it, I go, there's an element of my own story in this whole thing. the things that I harp on, the things that I bring up of like identity, belonging, ⁓ you know having heaven back you in your calling, like destiny. These things are things that I've walked through and fought through and things that I've I've had a hard time with in my own life. And I want others, I'm like, I think through conversation I've just found I I'm not the only one that feels this way or has thought these things. And if you can find that resonance with people around you, then you're like, hey, we're gonna we're gonna crack this open. And honestly started with coffee, you know, chats like we've had, where it's like, hey, like I see this is what you're doing. I I'd love to get coffee with you just to understand what's your approach, what's your take. and those conversations, those moments led to larger ones where it was like, ⁓ do you mind if I bring my friend to this as well? And it's like, yeah, sure, absolutely. Like Let's have a round table and that round table would become an auditorium at some point.

speaker-0: Yeah. That's awesome. And I think about, I forget if we personally have talked about me moving. I think you might have mentioned reached out about it. ⁓ it makes me think about my move back to my home town of Metro Detroit and ⁓ I did start a film club there a few years before I left. ⁓ and I I made

speaker-1: Told me about that. Yeah.

speaker-0: a good friendship out of it but then it it really didn't ⁓ thrive ⁓ and was like just kinda like me and one other person s showing up. But it makes me think about Metro Detroit and ⁓ and and continuing Faith and Film over there. So maybe we could have a a Faith and Film chapter and and Let's do it midwester.

speaker-1: Chris Francis was talking about that in Nashville and I was like, Okay and and so I put San Diego chapter on on anything that's since that conversation. I don't know what he's doing. But I think, you know, it it's like, Yeah, do it. You know, it's it's not it's not I don't have a corner on this thing. It's not an official brand. It's not maybe it should be. Maybe I should move it that direction. But

speaker-0: I mean Yeah, I think I think that would be a really cool aspect of like even tapping into what you had communicated about it earlier of like what if Christians had took ownership of this, and it's like how to get there to that initial vision that you you were meditating on for so long. I think setting you something up that's ⁓ in a way chapters, so it's like When you go have a shoot in a in a city and you want to pull crew or something, you know a group automatically that you can go to and ⁓ I feel like, you know, like San Diego has that's how I found Chris Francis and that's how he pointed me to Faith and Film is I went to the San Diego Media Pros page and somehow I found him. ⁓ but, you know, that's that is almost like too formal and there's like a you know, a little bit of a pay structure there. Yeah. So there's a barrier a little bit. ⁓ and so if there was an aspect in multiple parts of the country that was like no barrier, just access to good, trustworthy people ⁓ that are vetted in in a community that is linked. ⁓ I think that'd be super cool. Yeah. ⁓ and I know you're you're also the San Diego ⁓ leader for the Hollywood prayer network too. Yeah. And so that's you know, they kinda I think are doing something similar there and like they have the prayer network in Hollywood and then they're branching into San Diego and I think they have some other pockets

speaker-1: Yeah, just recently.

speaker-0: ⁓ all over the place. But they do. Yeah. In a in a similar sense it would be cool to to have a a network that's like anywhere you go, like if you r randomly shoot a music video on the other side of the country, it's like you can maybe tap into a group and

speaker-1: Yeah, right. I mean there's something some something of value in that in going, you know, ⁓ 'cause they're they will they'll t they'll pray over whatever we bring, like as a as a chapter director can say, Hey, these are prayer quests from the people in San Diego and the greater group will will pray over those things. ⁓ but also they're very connected in the industry. It's not just intercessors. You is it's a mix of people that are in film and not in film and they just that's on their heart and so they're they're called to pray for those things. ⁓ and so but I have found they they are very connected and so it it is it is a value to be ⁓ connected to the Hollywood Pair network, whatever city you're in. ⁓ and I think you're right in in Faith and Film, if I look forward and look down the road, I I it it is something of a of a roster, a trusted roster to say these are people that have ethic and have experience and I can I can promote them. And I and I do. Like that's one of the things that I like about Faith and Film is so many good working connections have come out of that from the people that show up. I love that. Yeah. Like that's what I want.

speaker-0: Yeah. I mean and that's that's blessed this show, like having Chris Francis on, having ⁓ Paul on just a couple episodes ago and and now yourself and you know, more connections coming through that. I got recently Nicole who's a part of the group reached out to me for like a potential gig. So I'm like, Praise God for that. ⁓ good. And so yeah, I think it's it's just been a a a major blessing and something I look forward to. ⁓ whenever it comes about. So it's definitely gonna be something I miss ⁓ when I c go to Detroit. So That's true. That is true. ⁓ well Joel thank you so much for being on the show. ⁓ do you have any like final thoughts or things that you want to touch on before I ask my final two questions?

speaker-1: can work remotely though, so it doesn't matter. Okay. ⁓ hm. I guess the thing that I would want someone listening to this to take away is that God is for you. That he'll s he's always willing to speak to you. and being on set is one of the best thing. I like I love it. And I I miss it. In corporate, I get little tastes every now and then and I miss it so bad. ⁓ but it is it is worship. You know, when you're in the zone and you're you're in that moment where you're like, ⁓ I didn't even ask God about whatever. You know, you're just putting out fires and you're and you get through a day and you're like, I didn't even pee and it's been twelve hours. That's worship. And and that honors him just as much as if you were in your perk closet. And so yes, like armor up, yes, like fill yourself with the word, yes, like listen to worship music, whatever you need to do to walk into that set with the right mindset, but know that that The Lord has put you there to to do the thing and he knows what it's like. And he knows he knows the the burdens, he knows the the the joys, he knows all that stuff. And if you can be like the guy out of chariots of fire, where it's like, I feel the pleasure of the Lord when I do what I'm designed to do, like realize that and accept it and and don't discount that aspect of what we do.

speaker-0: Yeah, so that's super important and thank you for that encouragement. ⁓ so I'll I'll wrap up with ⁓ the final two questions I like to ask guests. ⁓ first question, what is inspiring you right now? What could be something you're reading, watching, listening to, ⁓ coming across, anything that's inspiring you in your creative journey right now?

speaker-1: Right now. ⁓ This is gonna sound really strange. But it was actually Loki. ⁓ I really enjoyed Loki. I had I had no I didn't care about that character. I didn't I was like whatever. and someone had said it was good and I was I'd watched all the movies with the kids and I was like, Well let's just watch this, you know, whatever. and I was so surprised by that show and how much Of it wasn't it wasn't even the fact that it was like, ⁓ it was, you know, there's faith elements in it. But but but it was so well told in all these different things of like how one loves themselves, how one looks at time and regret, and what ⁓ can I change my destiny? Can can I shift things? Self-sacrifice, like all these great themes, classic themes, put in this really interesting. context. I don't know you've seen the show. ⁓ but I was like, this has intention, like high level intention, all the way through it. And it was it was such a fun two seasons to go through that ⁓ I like binged that on airplanes. I was nice. Yeah, it's just that's that's my me time is on airplanes.

speaker-0: I haven't seen season two yet, ⁓ but it's on it's on the list for sure heading into doomsday. then I'm still testing the waters with this question. so audience let me know if it's cringe or not. But who is somebody that you would like to see on Creative Chapel? It's kinda the lead lead engine question for me.

speaker-1: Definitely worth it. Yeah. Yeah, sure. ⁓ who would be good? ⁓ I mean I think of obviously in my in my zone, but I know you're outside of film as well. So ⁓

speaker-0: It's been very film heavy lately. ⁓ I like to get other people but ⁓ it's in the works.

speaker-1: Okay, okay. ⁓ there are people I don't know if you've chased like some music producers that are like ⁓ in the realm like I I think about just Bethel music has always been interesting to me, has a profound impact on my own life. and they're amazing people. ⁓ I think I think what's interesting about them is is that they carry the power of testimonies. They carry and they didn't start out so it's like they started out as worship and then created Bethel music and then and and it became its its own thing and they've gone through seasons of refinement and controversy and all these things, but yet we still sing their songs in our churches. We still like have ⁓ you cannot r not recognize that that their their stuff is anointed. Mm-hmm. and the people are the people that are in the music scene there are just they're beautiful people. So I think they that would be a really interesting story. someone else that I think would be really good ⁓ in our space would would probably be I I haven't been able to get to this person, but maybe I could get you to them, is ⁓ this guy that does like ⁓ weapons and spacecraft design for the Mandalorian.

speaker-0: Nice.

speaker-1: and just I ⁓ that world fascinates me and I would love to hear his story. So he's someone that I don't I'm like two degrees of separation from, but I'll be like here here, you take the lead. Yeah, that would be cool.

speaker-0: Yeah, we'll see if happens though. Well, Joel, thank you so much for being on the show. and I'm looking forward to this weekend hanging out more. Yeah, absolutely. All right. We'll see you next time. Thanks for watching this episode of the Creative Chapel podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow along to stay up to date on more episodes. We're shooting out of Communion Church in San Diego, California. If you're looking for a great church to be a part of, this is the place to be. Stay faithful, stay creative.

speaker-1: Thanks for

speaker-0: And I'll see you in the next episode.