Conversation - with Pastor Jared and Pastor Robby - Overcomers Week 3

Welcome to the Church of the Lakes Kingdom Conversations podcast.

At Church of the Lakes, our mission is connecting all to Christ to become healthy in God and courageous in love.

In 2026, we're emphasizing a kingdom mindset in all of our ministries and missions by being more like Jesus and countercultural in our living.

Today's podcast dives deeper into our current sermon series, Overcomers, a study of the book of Revelation.

Join Pastor Jared and Pastor Robbie as they talk about trusting in Jesus who has overcome and claiming that hope and strength as followers of the King.

Be blessed.

Welcome to another Kingdom Conversation.

I'm Pastor Robbie Strock, and today we're working through our study on the book of Revelation called Overcomers.

And specifically today, we're going to dive deeper on Revelation chapter 5, which is this just incredible divine window from the Apostle John, where we see a scroll and then we see the only one who can open it.

Revelation 5 · chapter mention

And to help us unravel these scriptures, the theology behind them, the application points to our lives, a little deeper than in our sermon is the man himself, Pastor Jared Pre said.

What's going on, Jared?

How are you?

I'm doing well.

Thanks so much.

Well, I'm encouraged that uh our overcomer series has been going over quite well as we've kind of launched into it over these last couple of weeks.

But uh, if you would uh humor me for a second, I want to read uh a passage of scripture from uh the author John uh about a revelation from Jesus to him.

Uh specifically, I'm gonna be reading Revelation 5, 1 through 4.

So I'm just gonna read it off and then ask the question to give a little bit of the hindsight.

But here's a scripture passage.

It goes like this Then I, which is John, the author, saw in the right hand of the one seated on the throne a scroll written on the inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals, and I saw a mighty angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?

And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look onto it.

And I began, that is John once again, began to weep bitterly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it.

Jared, we've got words like worthy, who is worthy, that phrase.

And John realizes when he asks himself that kind of question, that no one is worthy.

And we see these three locations.

But most importantly, I think, is John's reaction, where he's got this deep sense of weeping from within.

So why do you think John's reaction is weeping in this moment as we kind of go through Revelation chapter five?

Great question.

I love that's where we're starting.

Uh, where I would go with that is John is realizing in that moment that the problem he is facing is bigger than humanity's ability to solve it.

Okay.

Uh, and it really honestly is the tragedy of sin itself.

Okay.

Um we cannot make ourselves good enough, worthy enough, righteous enough to overcome the brokenness that sin brings into our lives.

And so the reason John is weeping is because the scroll itself, uh, get a little of the imagery in there, represents God's purposes coming to their appointed end.

Okay.

And if nobody can open up the scroll, then that means God's purposes cannot reach their appointed end.

And some of the uh appointed end of God's purpose is uh creation being restored, uh evil being judged, ultimately and finally judged, um the kingdom of God fully realized, all the promises God has made to his uh creation, particularly to humanity, reach their their their full culmination.

Yeah, a lot of that stuff we read actually from the Apostle John in chapter five, believe it or not, uh I do believe if you want to look it up and see how it's Jesus who is the one who's judging, not the Father in that moment and the second coming and stuff like that.

But sorry to interject.

Go ahead.

No, you're great.

You're great.

Um and so, yeah, so so John is seeing that this is the appointed end.

It's wrapped up in these seven seals.

Nobody can open the seals.

Yeah, right.

Uh that means nobody's worthy.

That's our inability.

It's a really a um an indictment on the weakness of humanity.

We don't have what it takes to do what's necessary for this scroll to be opened and for God's purposes to reach their conclusion.

And I want to do something a little differently today and just add a little bit of Wesleyan perspective to this, uh, because we certainly always want to be a doctrinal and theological rooted church.

And from a Wesleyan perspective, when you look at this moment in Revelation 4, it really confronts the depth of humanity's fallen condition.

Okay.

So going back to the beginning of time, we were created in God's image.

Sure.

But sin has so corrupted us that we cannot rescue ourselves and we cannot restore creation ourselves.

So John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, where we get a lot of our uh theological underpinnings, strongly emphasizes the necessity of a divine grace being what's necessary to do what needs to be done, again, because of fallen humanity, how we cannot initiate our own salvation.

It really is an act of God's grace that even illuminates our need for salvation in the first place.

So again, John weeps.

Why?

Because no one is worthy, because evil appears to win, because suffering remains, because death has the final word, and that because creation is never gonna reach the purpose God made it for.

Um but then comes verse five, which I think you stopped at verse four.

I did, right?

In verse five, you get this grand announcement from one of the elders of heaven that says to John, Do not weep, instead look.

Look, the lion from the tribe of Judah, the root of David, he has conquered.

Yeah.

Um the good news coming after, but but what the order of operation is, right, in the scripture here.

Like the weeping, and uh once again, I'd encourage people to go back to our previous episode, which would be your sermon on this specific text.

You talked about how um the strength, the weakness, you know, you made the physical illustration right at the beginning, but certainly when we talk about strength and weakness, that is more of an innermost being type thing, also, although the physical also comes into play.

Yeah.

Um, but you said this, and I quote your strength is not found in becoming stronger in and of itself, of yourself.

Your strength is found in belonging to the one that's a capital O there, who has overcome.

All right.

So what's the difference, Jared, between becoming stronger in your faith versus learning to depend on Christ?

Because can we ever in and of ourselves ever become fully strong enough in our faith to save ourselves?

It's an emphatic no.

Right.

Uh we can never become strong enough, good enough, or worthy enough to save ourselves.

Uh that's the whole point of Jesus coming and shedding his blood on a cross and the the point of God's uh declarative affirmation in the empty tomb.

But then if I could push, then like a part of one of our uh three parts of our mission statement, it's connecting all to Christ to become quote unquote healthy in God.

So does that mean we don't have to worry about flexing and working out our spiritual muscles to become healthy in God?

That's a great uh great comment.

Uh let me back it up.

The idea of becoming stronger in and of myself, uh that I think says in its subconscious, I need more of me, right?

I I need to figure out how to get stronger.

So the focus is on me.

When we depend on Christ for our strength, it is not I need more of me, it's I need more of him.

So going back to John Wesley, you know, he would certainly encourage what you're saying, right?

Discipline, growth, obedience, and spiritual maturity.

But those things, and here's what's important, are never attempts for self-generated holiness.

Okay.

They are simply responses to and cooperations with the grace of God that's already at work within us.

And so check this out.

Philippians 2, right?

Yes.

Paul says, work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

And then he goes on to say, for it is God who is working in you.

So we participate.

Participate, yes.

We partner with, we we cooperate, but it is God who supplies the grace that actually transforms us into the image of God from one degree of glory to the next, and how we can actually accomplish what we set out to accomplish in terms of spiritual maturity, in terms of growing in holiness.

Um, so so that means uh Christian maturity isn't becoming increasingly independent of God.

Okay.

In fact, paradoxally, I'd say the more mature we become, the more dependent we become on Christ.

So I love that that you picked up on that right away.

Yeah, oh yeah.

The goal then isn't Jesus, make me strong enough so I eventually don't need much more of you anymore.

The goal is Jesus, teach me to live every moment from your strength rather than my strength.

Oh, wow.

And so that really fits into this theme of overcomer in that the overcomer is a person who keeps clinging to the one who has overcome.

That's how we overcome, because we're clinging to the one who has actually overcome.

And I love that phrase, the elder says to John, do not weep any longer.

For the line of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has overcome.

It's past tense.

It's already our reality that we now have to learn to live into, to draw into.

Well, keeping on the Wesleyan kind of spiritual discipline plans, you kind of listed some things there that uh um John Wesley really encouraged his uh his uh uh followers, his people really.

Um I'm just curious, would you consider leaning into God, admitting your weakness is a spiritual discipline?

And why do you think that maybe perhaps is so difficult for us here in our current culture or context?

Or, you know, I think in America, I think we can all say that it's ingrained in our culture to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, uh, you know, which is actually impossible to do if you think about it.

But uh okay, didn't mean to digress there.

The the reason why admitting I am not strong enough to me is a spiritual discipline is the fact that it requires surrender.

And surrender is a spiritual discipline that we daily have to engage.

Man, we talked about this all through Lent, didn't we?

Really all year we've been talking about this theme of surrender, but primarily during that Latin season.

And the reason is, as human beings, I don't think just as American Christians, but as just human beings universal, we want control.

Like we want to believe that if if we just become intelligent enough, disciplined enough, if we plan enough, if we resource ourselves enough, if we we are determined uh to the point of uh enough, then we can handle whatever life throws at us and we can overcome.

But but that that is in stark contrast to what we we believe as Christians, right?

Grace requires us to confess I cannot save myself, I cannot sanctify myself, I cannot conquer sin through willpower alone, I cannot accomplish God's purposes in my strength alone.

But going back to Wesley, you know, Wesley theology doesn't leave us in a helpless state.

No, it doesn't.

No, it moves us from I cannot, but God's grace can.

It's that again in a throne room in heaven with John, he's weeping because no one is found to open the throne, and the angels is all using there is someone who is worthy.

So move move the focus off of yourself and let's put it onto the onto God, because God's grace can help us solve the problems or issues that we face in the here and now.

Um you know, the important uh to me, this is important because John Wesley wasn't pessimistic about transformation, it was just the opposite.

Absolutely, yeah.

Uh he believed that God's grace could transform every single person in a very profound way to the point of even sanctifying the heart in love.

Yeah.

I mean, the goal of the Christian life is to become like Christ, you know, to be the have the image of God that we have been created with restored within us.

And that's a process of sanctification.

And because of Christ, that door is open to us.

Um I I would say that you know, when we come to faith in Jesus, we have become perfected because we're we're imputed with his righteousness.

Yes.

And in the same moment, we are become we are being perfected.

We are moving down this pathway of holiness, this pathway of sanctification, which for the Christian is really the ultimate goal, right?

It's to be holy as as Christ is holy.

Um of my seminary classes right now, Jared, really focuses on how the spirit partners in that process too.

Um, but you know, we see the Trinitarian God work through that whole entire process of sanctification from initial to maturing to eventual conclusion and final.

Um, you know, John Wesley also believed that he could obtain in this life perfectionism, right?

Or whatever the correct term is that being perfect in love, Christian entire sanctification.

Right.

Yeah, he believed that we could get there.

Um well again, because one, we we have been perfected.

We have uh Christ's righteousness has been imputed, but we're also being perfected as we pursue holiness, much to what what you're saying and what John Wesley believed.

Which is really cool because the power for that transformation, again, we have to remember never originates with us.

No.

That's why weakness can actually be a doorway to grace.

And it reminds me of the sermon with I you know referenced the Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 12.

You know, he here's a man, you know, just we call him a superman, right?

He calls himself the least apostles, but he wrote most of the New Testament under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

But he says in a really autobiographical prayer in 2 Corinthians 12, like three times he asked God to remove a thorn from his flesh.

Nope, nope, nope.

There was something that was hindering him in some manner.

We don't know what it was.

Yeah, we don't, but Lord, take it away.

And each time, like much to your point, God said, No, I'm not gonna do it.

Why?

Because through the weakness, you see that my grace is sufficient enough.

And it's through the weakness that I actually become my strongest self.

Um, and so really, you know, that surrender, our weakness is a doorway to God's grace.

I made the comment as well that like um dependence in our culture looks like weakness because we're rugged individualism, right?

Yeah, okay.

But but again, dependence on Christ is actually the first step toward leading us to strength.

It's not a weakness at all.

It's actually what's necessary, the necessary piece to moving in a place of ultimate strength and the ability to endure.

Well, you also threw out there, not only in your sermon, but also just here on this podcast earlier, this uh paradoxical image and idea that really grasped me this week and convicted me.

Um we look and see the angel proclaim, look, the lion of Judah.

And then when John turns his head and verse, what'd you say?

It's verse five and six.

Uh verse five and six, I think.

Of Revelation 5.

Um and uh he sees not a lion.

What does he see, Jared?

He sees a lamb.

Okay, and here's the actual terminology he saw a lamb standing as though it had been slain.

Oof.

Yeah.

It pulls me back to Isaiah, you know, for uh Lenten discipline one year, I memorized all the suffering servant.

Yeah, that's great.

And and uh that's that was that was right at the start of your discerning uh vocational ministry.

It was, and I challenged myself because I don't memorize scriptures very much.

I remember holding you to that.

You you uh if you remember Ash Wednesday service after the service, or was it Monday, Thursday?

It was Monday, Thursday.

I asked you to recite it in front of us, and you're able to do it, which was just so cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unfortunately, it was also in the entryway with too many people standing around, but that's okay.

That's your dude your your first uh um moment of um preaching, right?

Yeah, that's true, that's also true proclaiming, yeah.

And anyway, so you were saying uh well, okay, so we got this paradoxical image, at least to us, of a lion and a lamb.

The line, like, you know, I couldn't help but left let my mind drift this week back to the old animated Disney version of Robin Hood.

And who's who's the king?

It's the lion, right?

It's the lion, right?

And then like I didn't see a lamb anywhere in there as this uh cunning creature or victorious creature, right?

But here in Revelation 5, we have both a lion and a lamb, both one and the same.

So help me try and flush this out.

These two images are together.

Rather, how does our God do that rather than having our peace-sized brains realize choosing one over the other when it comes to the lion and the lamb?

We sang that yesterday with some.

Have wanted to answer this question because this is the confusing piece for them.

Not all the the other symbolism and illustration, but this this is the confusing piece for them, which makes me smile because there's just so much symbolism.

There is, there is with creatures, with eyes and wings and so on and so forth.

But okay, I I I love this question, and and I think you have to hold the lion and lamb intention.

Because if you don't, what you end up having is a distorted picture of Jesus.

Okay, what does that mean?

A lamb without or the lion without the lamb is indicative of raw power, and it reduces Jesus to someone who crushes his enemies.

So domination.

Domination.

Lamb without lion becomes sentimentality.

Jesus is reduced to a gentle compassion without any authority, judgment, or victory.

That's got the millennials listening now.

It does, right.

So Revelation refuses both those distortions and says, John, look the lion, but when he looks, what does he see?

A slaughtered lamb.

And it's stunning because again, the paradox here is the lion conquers as the lamb.

So Jesus possesses absolute authority as the lion, yet his victory is revealed through sacrificial love.

The cross, this is great, isn't an interpretation of his kingship.

The cross reveals what his kingship actually looks like.

Again, this is a profoundly Wesleyan idea when you look at Wesleyan theology because it insists, and please hear this, that holy love is at the center of God's character and also God's work within us.

That's God's holiness and God's love, they're not competing attributes.

His love is holy, and his holiness is loving.

So when when Christ forms his people into overcomers, he doesn't merely make us tougher, he makes us like the Lamb.

Okay.

We become people who the further down holiness we we the pathway to holiness we get, we become people who who unconditionally love one another more, even those who wrong us.

We become people who are quickly more quickly to uh forgive.

Uh we're humble.

Right?

None of those are domineering authoritative attributes, but they're attributes that that are quintessential characteristics of the God in which not only we serve, but the God who hung on the cross and died for us.

So could can I push it a little bit, Jared, and see if I like my mind is drifting like so.

I've been reading the book of Revelation with John, the gospel in high school.

Oh, wonderful, yeah.

Because like I really struggle in the Gospel of John because it is not written like the other gospels.

Um, he had the multiple historical hindsights because he was the last one to write his gospel, he lived longer than the other apostles, so on and so forth.

However, I can't help but let my mind drift back to a study that we did in January of 2025 where we talked about Jesus being both, as it says in John 1, verse 14, grace and truth.

John 1:14

Yeah.

And like those, in our understanding, are paradoxical because it's like, what is grace without truth and what is truth without grace?

You have to have the perfect balance, yeah.

Or it's kind of like this idea that you're talking about between the lion and the lamb.

I love how you made that illustration and connection.

Is that similar to what you're talking about?

Oh, very much.

You know, you're making me think of Matt Chandler in a you know, in some of his sermons, he often will talk about the that balance between grace and truth and how truth without grace is a bully.

Yes, yeah, grace without truth is just sentimentality, it's heartwash, right?

Like it, it's it's not worth anything.

And so that you have to balance the two.

You know, the gospel of John so great, it's so great to hear you're reading that alongside Revelation.

John is different.

It's a very high Christological view of the ministry, person, and work of Jesus.

John is making the declaration all through his gospel that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, like he is deity.

Whereas, you know, you have Matthew, where they really want you to see his humanity.

He was a fulfillment of the prophets, prophets of old, and all as well as Luke.

But yeah, it's the same, it's the same type of paradox.

You know, our God, of course, it makes sense.

He can balance everything perfectly, right?

It's uh the woman caught in adultery in in John chapter 8, right?

John 8 · chapter mention

Yeah, oh yeah.

How how where are your condemners?

Uh they're they're gone.

Well, neither do I condemn you, but go and go and sin no more.

Like there's got to be, you know, the forgiveness is offered, the grace is extended, but there's got to be a response, and the response of holy living is not to earn, because remember, it's identity before behavior.

Yes.

It's not to earn it, but it's it's to be it's to extend our to to demonstrate our gratitude for what we have received in Christ.

Um you know, I think that whole year I I made the comment that you know the the the focus of Christianity is not primarily behavior modification, it's identity transformation.

Yes.

The behavior modification comes out of the transformed identity.

It can't happen the other way.

Wow.

We can't behave ourselves into being the sons and daughters of God.

It doesn't work that way.

Well, I'm just so like it's so cool to see us build on this theological stuff year after year after year.

So when we get these connections back, I hope people find them, write them in the columns of their Bible and so on and so forth, so they can see how these things are building on each other.

So thank you.

But believe it or not, there's a method to the madness, right?

Well, well, it's also a work of the Holy Spirit, to be honest, because when I when I sit down to reflect, okay, and vision out.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

It's not Jared doing it alone.

I I'm really seeking the discernment of the Spirit of God and coming alongside to partner with the work he wants to do here, not the work I want to do here.

And certainly we have our vision team and our pastoral team that that works in conjunction with each other as well.

But but my hope is all of us as a collective whole are working in tandem with the Holy Spirit.

Yeah.

And honestly, I'm not smart enough to have these things build the way they're building.

It truly is a work of the Holy Spirit using me to do what he's seeking to do within this corner of the kingdom in Stark County, Jackson, Ohio.

Well, I certainly laugh harder when you say I'm not smart enough because like I still get really excited when I make connections in scripture.

It's like, why didn't I think of that sooner and stuff like that?

Uh so thank you.

Thank you.

That that truly was an honest reflection in the moment of how grace and truth kind of paradoxically go in.

But uh, well, let's finish up our conversation a little bit today.

Um, you know, what does it tell us, this section of Revelation chapter five, four and five, really, about the nature of God's kingdom?

We've been talking about God's kingdom all year, Jared.

How does this tell us about God's kingdom that Jesus conquers not simply through power, but through, as we said, the lion, but also through sacrificial love, as we see in the Lamb.

What does that tell us about the nature of God's kingdom?

Well, it tells us, I think, first and foremost, that God's kingdom operates radically different than the kingdoms of this world.

You know, power is defined differently.

The kingdoms of this world uh tend to overcome through dominance, right?

It's power over others.

Jesus overcomes through self-giving.

It's power poured out for others.

And that really is the pattern of the cross.

You know, Jesus certainly possesses divine authority.

Absolutely.

That is an assumption that we read in the revealed, you know, uh word of God.

Uh revelation leaves no question either to that reality.

Jesus possesses divine authority.

But the astonishing truth in my mind to Revelation 5 is that the victorious king is the slain lamb, which we just spent a few moments talking about.

And here's where where it really uh John Wesley in his theology emphasizes uh uh that make it especially important, is that the lamb's victory becomes the pattern for the lamb's people.

Okay.

Let me say it again.

It's very distinctly Wesleyan, thinking about the lion over conquers by becoming a slain lamb.

The lamb's victory at the cross and in the empty tomb becomes the pattern for the lamb's people.

So we don't merely believe in Christ's victory.

We try and mimic it.

We meant grace reshapes us, let's use that phrase, into people who live lives like our victorious king.

And that's that's sanctification, right?

Um so God's goal isn't simply to forgive us while leaving our hearts unchanged.

No, no, the Holy Spirit is increasingly forming within us a holy love that we see first revealed in Christ.

It's a love for God and it's a love for our neighbor.

Uh so the message of revelation to the church, it it is not the world is hostile, so become more hostile in the world.

It's follow the Lamb.

When the world hates, we love.

When the world says retaliate, we forgive.

When the world says grasp for power, we serve.

When the world says compromise, we say, no, no, stay faithful.

When following Jesus costs us something, we keep following, anyways.

Doesn't mean we're weak or passive, we're not doormats at all.

The Lamb is also the lion.

Right.

Right?

And so Jesus, I love it, man.

He confronts evil, he judges injustice, he defeats Satan, he reigns as king.

You ever notice uh where the demon starts showing up in scripture?

It's not the Old Testament.

It's during Jesus' ministry.

It is.

Even they proclaim and recognize Jesus.

And they cower in fear, right?

Don't send us back to the abyss.

Let us instead go into the pigs.

Like they're cowering before the lion of the tribe of Judah, not the land that was slain.

And so we we as Christians aren't called to be doormats.

We have to confront evil and injustice and uh seek with the help of the Holy Spirit to defeat the devil and to uh to to live as our victorious king lives.

Um God's people overcome in the same manner that Jesus Christ overcome.

Do a lot of these links links go back to um the Sermon on the Mount that we started at at the beginning of the year, all these uh, you know, uh phrases that you were saying, like uh we don't we don't respond, we respond with love, we respond with Yeah.

I mean I love that we started the year off, and again it was a Holy Spirit thing with the Sermon on the Mount.

Let's talk about the kingdom values, kingdom ethics, how the people who are not trying to get into the kingdom, sure, but how the people who are already in the kingdom because of of uh salvation in Christ are to to carry themselves and live in in the world in which we find ourselves.

That by the way, is the kingdom already here, but not yet.

Yeah, right?

And and that's another uh interesting paradox that we you know we'll we'll talk about, I'm certain, in in later weeks.

Um but yeah, that that's kind of where I'd go with that answer.

Okay, well, Jared, thank you so much for walking us through Revelation 5.

Um, I'm very um encouraged by what we've been learning so far, not only on uh our sermon content, but also through these deeper dives.

So thanks for taking some time to do that.

Um if you if you would bear me one more question, I want to turn this more personal, more of an application point, perhaps.

Um what is something that you've tried to carry, you Jared, that you were never meant to carry in your own strength?

Perhaps that will bring it home a little bit about um, you know, both of us proclaiming a little bit of our own weaknesses as a leader, leading by example kind of phrase.

So silly ill probably a silly personal example of that would be, you know, when I was more of an athlete, trying to to win races and and push harder in my own strength for a victory for for me to applaud myself for.

Um it's kind of a silly example.

You know, I I you know in college I went to a Christian college and we had running shirts made up with Philippians 4 turn 13, that I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

And it's such a uh self-focused way of looking at that verse, right?

Like it's just so it's uh selfish and and unbiblical, to be honest with you.

But but to to but in terms of more serious examples, um I I would probably say my marriage early on.

Uh I I tell people all the time, marriage is not rocket science, but it's the hardest thing you'll ever do.

And uh, you know, early on, you know, I I probably Meredith and I got married pretty young and we we kind of grew up together.

And in those early years, I I was not the best of husbands, and I tried to be a uh, you know, a good husband the way I understood it, but I wasn't necessarily in those moments partnering with the Holy Spirit.

Um it really took um s some some pretty tenuous uh moments in our marriage early on for me to realize I can't do this on my own.

Uh I I I need the Lord to help me to to to to love her the right way.

For she needs the Lord to help her to love me the right way.

And you know, we're at 23 years and it it hasn't been a uh rose garden, but but the Lord is in it, you know, and and we we constantly are trying to relinquish our marriage to him and put it in his hands.

Uh, you know, that was a good crash course study because uh uh of how we should go about doing things in relationship, like lean into the Holy Spirit's help.

Because when we started having kids, uh I immediately, Lord, I can't do this without you.

It was never me trying to do it on my own.

It's funny that you mentioned that because that's my that's my point.

It was like Stephanie and I, my wife are are pretty independent people.

Um always functioned that way.

In fact, when we first got married, um Stephanie worked either mornings or afternoons, and I worked exclusively afternoons.

So there were whole days where we didn't see each other until 11 p.m.

when we would get home from work.

Um and uh uh if she was working in the morning and I was working in the afternoon.

And you know, when we had kids, everything changed.

Yeah.

And I had was forced to realize it was like, uh, I can't do this in of my own strength.

I am not perfect enough to provide for the family or and to provide my time and witness.

And it truly was both of us having to choose to sacrifice things to make it work, yeah.

Um to put uh other people's needs ahead of our own.

Sacrificing independence, yeah.

Uh your your own sometimes your own preferences or agenda, you know.

But here's the thing it's when you do it in the right way, and with partnering with the Holy Spirit, it's the best way.

Amen.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm so thankful for for for what I have now than what I had 20 years ago when I thought it was all about me, you know.

You use that, and I'll steal your story because I think it's so beautiful.

You talked about um, and please expand upon it, yeah, the day that you were wrestling in your living room with your kids, right?

That was great.

Uh holy moment, you know, back that up years.

Marit of the pregnant in the third trimester with Margaret and first child.

I'm like, I was out on a run and I was just I spent a lot of my running talking to the Lord, and I realized how selfish of a human being was.

And I'm like, can I really give up the time, treasures, and talents necessary to for another person?

Like, I I mean I realize how selfish I was, and it was a moment of honest repentance.

And of course, after she was born and took her first breath, I'm like, I will do whatever this this young girl needs.

But much to your point, if you know, I fast forward a number of years, I have three biological kids at this point, and they're all wrestling with me in my living room, and as we were wrestling, it dawned on me I can't remember what I gave up to have them.

And so, you know, much it goes much to that question.

If what you give up ultimately is less than what you gain, is it even sacrifice?

You got it.

Right?

And I you think about you know it feels like so much to surrender to the Lord at first.

But when you look back on your life, it's like I never sacrificed anything in in in in um comparison to what I've gained in this relationship.

And and that's what I would you know commit to to our listeners is man, I know the sacrifice feels big at first, but just make the sacrifice to the Lord and it he will not disappoint.

You know, the the idols of this world overpromise and underdeliver every time.

Every time.

The Lord makes good promises, but his promises are always over-delivered.

Yeah.

It's beautiful.

Well, thank you, Jared, for your time today.

Uh certainly uh we're gonna continue on trying to provide some insights, deeper dives into the book of Revelation over the series.

Um and uh thank thank you for your honesty.

And you know, I think as we continue on in this series, people are gonna keep seeing this theme of hope as as God's promises delivered.

And I'm so excited about that because oftentimes when we open up a book like Revelation, it oftentimes brings confusion, misunderstanding, or focusing on all the wrong things.

And I'm so grateful that we've been trying to keep this um the main thing, the main thing, as I like to say.

Hopefully, bringing some clarity to it.

Yeah, of course, of course.

And uh certainly as we encourage people, um, we have small groups both online and in person people can join in on if they're looking for even further dives and stuff like that.

You can email us um at robert at churchlakes.org if you're looking for something like that.

I'd love to be able to connect you in with one of our small groups.

And uh, but before we go, I just want to say a big thank you, of course, to Betsy, our director of communication, uh Len Brown, our editor and encourager, and to my wife Stephanie, our social media coordinator, to getting this podcast up and running and helping us put out this information in these deeper dives.

And of course, if you want to reach out to us directly, of course, send me an email at robert at church of the lakes.org.

We'd love to hear from you.

Um but before we go, please remember, it's our mission as followers of disciples of Jesus to connect all to Christ, to become healthy in God and courageous in love.

And until next time, God bless.

Thanks for listening to this episode from Church of the Lakes with Pastor Jared Priestett and Pastor Robbie Stride.

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