EP013: Jate Earhart & Creating Disciples While Playing Video Games

Well, I tell you what, listening audience, I'm excited about this episode. We've got Jake Earhart. I promise you, you've never heard of this kid before, but he's awesome. So he hit me up through the website for the first time, never heard of him. I just get this form through the website that says, hey, I run a discipleship ministry for video gamers, and I'd like to talk to you.

And I'll tell you right there, I paused. Discipleship ministry for video gamers. I don't know that I've ever seen those words together on the same page before, and it made me want to talk to him as soon as possible, and I did. And I got to tell you, I was really impressed. Talk about unconventional ministry, right?

This kid is literally doing discipleship, teaching people to share their faith so that they can reach into the video game community using tools like Discord. And if you're like me, I barely knew what Discord was. And this person, Jake, is literally doing this, is discipling others to share their faith through video games like Xbox and PlayStation. Like, how awesome is this?

So you're going to love this episode. Talk about a crazy idea. Look for a unique perspective in how to do biblical community, how to create a discipleship community. This is it. Here's Jake Earhart, myself, and of course, Ray DeArmas from Christ Fellowship Miami on how to create a discipleship community for video gamers. Here's Ray.

When I heard what you've been doing. I was just blown away because I'd seen kind of a vision for this and seen the community gather just from the little bit that I'd seen online. Yeah, I love the game, but I'm not like in the community like this, but I knew that there was such a strong pool that if other people could see what you're doing, you know, my prayer is that this inspires them for what could be, you know, are just not going to get it. But if at least they can get a vision for man, but there are people in my community, a passion for this, and I can empower them.

Right.

Or doing the same thing. That, that to me is the big one.

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. It's, it is just like, it's people, you know, like it, it's, it's the thought of like, this is a group of people that have been almost pushed out of church at some point in time.

Because like, I know I grew up with, um, I grew up with like Atari games because my parents weren't sure about gaming. It was like, I don't know that that might be from the devil. We haven't decided yet. Like, and so, um, they had an Atari, but it was like, we're, we don't think we want him to play games.

Because I don't know, my dad was a, was a church planner. My mom was a, uh, worship leader. And so they both were like, yeah, this is, we're not sure. And since we don't know, we're just going to err on the caution side, kind of the same way people did with movies and stuff.

And so, um, I, the, that's where the rule of like, you have to beat the game started was Atari because Atari was way before my time, way before my time, but it was before my time. Yeah.

It was way before your time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It looks like it was my time. Yes.

You're, you're a 90s baby. No, I mean, come on.

Right. Right. But that's what I grew up with was Atari. You know, I played Atari because that's, my parents weren't going to buy anything new. And so I had a whole suitcase of Atari games.

So I've probably beaten more Atari games than like most people have beaten Atari games.

And I played through like E.T. That game sucks. That's, I've beat it.

It's one of the worst games of all time.

Yeah.

I had it.

No, it's awful.

It's, it's terrible.

It's an awful game. It's an awful game. And, and like the goal, like you go down to the pit and then you gotta like stretch your neck out and you like go back up and it's RNG, like half of the game.

It's so bad. But like that game, like I figured out, I don't even know how I figured out how to beat that game. Like I know the, you know, there's like the glitch in adventure and stuff like that.

And Joust, we played a Joust all the time. That's kind of where I convinced my dad that it was good because we would play together mode.

And it was like, you know, okay, we're, I see community here and stuff. And, um, as, as we went, then people would kind of gift us systems.

So I'm like 27, but the, the games I played in, in gaming terms was like Atari. And then I played Sega and then I played Nintendo and got, you know, Zelda and, and I got a Game Boy when it came out.

And it was, it was like, I've gone through the whole process from the actual start to the end, uh, where we're at now in the order, probably more better than most people have.

Um, at least for sure my age, cause people just were like, yeah, I had a 64 from the time I was young.

You know, it's like, Oh, okay. Well, you know, I didn't, I didn't deal with that. I had, you know, Spider-Man and pitfall, you know, or whatever.

So what kind of community are you seeing come out of this? Because it's, it's kind of crazy to imagine that people not only are, are jumping into it, but really making it something where they're talking about it.

And, and it's introducing like this whole new space where they can move and interact and be, and be themselves, which is great.

Yeah. Um, yeah, uh, community wise, we're seeing, uh, uh, ridiculous amount of community.

Uh, we're, we are seeing it anyway, because it's like a natural thing.

I think, um, when people, when people do something they love, especially something that is already geared towards multiplayer, something that's already geared towards like interaction, you're going to want to interact with other people.

I think it's kind of like, kind of natural.

Like we see, we see groups of people that they want to talk about movies.

Um, and that makes sense because like a lot of stuff happens in movies, but when the, when the actual thing is interactive by nature and multiplayer, I mean, it, it's like, of course you're going to see community.

Like you should, you totally should, it, it just makes natural sense.

But, um, the community that, that, that we're building, um, is it's like, uh, it's a very positive environment.

Um, but it's also a very open, uh, chat.

And I think like our original goal was it for it to just be really, really positive and it's moved more into like what people need, at least the people that are in our group.

Cause like I was saying, there's no one, like you can go with one thing in mind and just, you know, this is what's needed.

Uh, and what people really need was just open, like people being willing to hear what they're saying and accept it as like a human emotion.

Or, uh, the way that they feel and it, and it's like, yeah, I, I acknowledge that what you just said has worth and, uh, thank you for like letting me hear that, you know, and that's such a small thing, but, um, yeah, like it's funny because when we're talking about like, uh, when I'm thinking about positivity, uh, if you've watched, did you watch the Mr. Rogers movie?

Not yet.

It's killing me.

I love, I love Mr. Rogers so much.

Uh, man, Fred had an impact on my life.

I call him Fred as if like we were boys, but it was just fantastic growing up.

Yeah.

And that's, that's how I feel about it.

You know, is it's like, he's like super positive, but what do you just being positive?

Isn't, isn't really what he did.

Instead, it was like, he would talk to kids like they were more than just, you know, just a, a thing that was there or whatever.

It was like, I care about, I care about you.

Like what you're saying is important.

And, and, and I, and I want to, uh, understand you.

And, uh, that's like something that's, I don't know if it's lost in our community because there's a chance that, you know, perception or whatever.

But I feel like we really have lost the art of hearing people, you know, it's like listening is one thing, but then like actually hearing and taking in and saying like, I, what you have has value is, is lost.

And, uh, I, especially in the gaming community where you hear so much input, you know, it's like ads almost.

It's just people talking, you join a lobby for like five seconds and meet somebody and then you land and die and you're like, I see a, you know, and you never have to talk to them again.

And it just becomes burned in your mind that these are just noises in your game and you're not, you know, they're not actual people.

So I think that's kind of what we're trying to break past is like, no, like you are a person.

Let's actually have community and not just 30 seconds in a game.

And, uh, yeah, it's been, it's been really good.

How are you helping bridge that gap in terms of community and all that stuff?

Hmm.

Yeah, it's hard.

Um, honestly, the hardest part is how do you like reach people that need that?

Um, cause once you can connect with them, then it's like, cool.

Like now we can talk and we can do that thing, you know?

So, um, our, our community is, um, well, at like, at the time of this, it's like 670 people or something like that.

And, um, it is, uh, yeah, it's, no, it's, it's gotten, it's gotten really big, but the actual like community is probably closer to like 50, you know, because a lot of people join and they'll, and they'll talk maybe every once in a while, they'll just kind of look in and that's fine.

Um, but then there's like people that every day they're, this is where it's like their new Facebook, you know?

Um, I don't like saying that cause I, it's like, you don't want to replace anything, but, uh, for a lot of people, Facebook has gotten kind of the epitome of what I was talking about, where it's this echo chamber of, um, you know, algorithms will help you find the things that give you the, the, the type of things you care about.

And so it's just like, you never get another opinion.

It's just, here's the things you care about because they're the people you followed.

And so if you, if you do see a bad opinion, you're going to post your little rant or whatever.

And then if you don't want to reply after that, you don't have to, because you can just say what you want to say and you leave.

And, um, with a chat room, it's very much more, you see what's the last thing said.

And at any point in time, somebody else could join and have just as much say as the next person, especially in the way that we have it set up.

Um, I deleted, there's, uh, we had colors for like mods had a color, admins had a color, like different colors to, to dictate hierarchy in our structure.

Um, and like, at least for the time being, uh, and for the last three years, I, that's all been removed.

So it's every, every person has the same, that I do have is a level system.

So the more that you talk, the bluer your name turns, it kind of starts at like more of a dark blue.

And then it turns to like a lighter blue, the longer that you're in the chat that you've been talking.

So that way you can kind of get a gauge of like, oh, like this person has, has influence because they talk more.

And that's just to encourage other people to actually engage.

And, uh, and that way it's less of a, this person has power over you because, you know, they have the word admin or this person, because they have the word mod.

And it's more like the real world where, okay, if you want more influence, like just, just talk to people more.

And, uh, so that's, that's kind of the, the thinking there, but yeah, I mean, that, that's really the base of our community is very simple.

Um, at least at the start, we were 50, 50 Christian on Christian.

Uh, I would say that's, that's pretty, pretty fair.

Uh, and at least that, that was our understanding.

And we, um, talk to people and we're very open.

We had a channel for prayer, um, had a channel for encouragement where we would release videos that were just, um, we saw it like a stair step system.

Um, I don't want to jump too much, but like we saw it like a stair step system where, uh, people are going to need different steps.

We talk about like next steps in church a lot.

And so it's like, what does it look like for people to take the very first step?

Um, and that might be to just talk to somebody who is a Christian, like not even anything beyond that.

Uh, and if you talk to somebody who is a Christian, then your next step might be to that person to, uh, mention something that's spiritual.

And so you, you understand where that person's at spiritually.

Um, those are, there's something called the five levels of communication.

Um, and, and, you know, we, we would talk about those and it's like, you know, first there'd be a, just a base level communication.

And then maybe you'd have something that was a personal, like something, what does your avatar mean?

And then it's like meaningful, you know, usually it's something bad that's happened in your life or like, what are you dealing with?

And that's kind of the prayer would, would take that, uh, we could, we can, what can be praying for you.

And then if you, I mean, if you're in a prayer channel, then we'd ask you probably about your spirituality.

Um, and that's, that's not even the last one.

That's just where are you at spiritually?

And some people that a lot of people feel like they relate to spirituality, but they may not relate to, um, even a God.

They'll just say, yeah, I feel very spiritual, you know?

And it's like, oh, okay, well, can you, can you dig into that a little bit?

I feel like that's a term today we've, we've taken.

And then the fifth one is gospel.

Yeah.

So we'd say like, you know, this is where you'd share your, your faith or, or, or so on.

So, um, but we would, um, we thought we, you know, we think about those and like stair steps and, and it's like, how do we get people to the, the next step as they're going?

Um, and, uh, the encouragement channel was sort of that, that tipping point, um, where it, it was a,

video that was based on a game, um, and whatever the game was.

And then they would, uh, we'd have like videos or, um, a section at the end that would kind of relate it to something in the Bible or not even always to something in the Bible.

Sometimes it was just, here is something that like, this is why it's helpful to be positive.

Here's a way of thinking about mental health or whatever.

And, um, and sometimes it led itself to a Bible verse and sometimes it's led itself to just, here's like the truth of it, you know?

Um, yeah, those are kind of some of the things we tried, you know?

So what you basically have there is a discipleship process.

Like, I don't, I did, did you, did you come up on that with your own?

Did somebody coach you through?

Like, what, what did that look like?

No.

Yeah.

Um, I mean, for me personally, new life, uh, the church that I attend full time and is, I've been working there full time for four years now.

Um, and they're like, they're really good.

They're, um, they're, their process at least in the time.

So whenever I first joined, um, by the time I joined, they were already doing exponential.

They're like, uh, church planner conference, the executive pastor there, um, before I was there, the executive pastor left to start exponential.

Uh, and then, uh, Todd Wilson, and then they continued that, um, understanding that the best way to reach lost people is to start new churches.

And so they have, um, I mean, it's something like 13% of all of our tithes and offerings goes to starting new churches.

Um, and so we've continued to like do that.

Uh, but we've also pushed more into, uh, uh, uh, well, the same way exponential has it's, it's the multiplication idea.

And, um, to multiply, you have to make disciples that make disciples, um, that start churches that plant churches.

And so through their staff meetings, um, over the last couple of years, especially as we've moved more into discipleship, like they've taught a lot of strategies, but they've emphasized, uh, emphasized that it's been not about the strategy, you know, but the heart of it.

And, um, yeah.

And so it's like, how can I, how can I take, I've always seen it through this view and I already know my ministry before we started in this.

So it was really like, as I'm hearing it and I'm writing stuff down, like, okay, how can I immediately apply this to what I'm, I'm already needing it, you know?

Uh, so that's, that's been really, really helpful.

Yeah.

Now let's, let's just unpack this a little bit.

Like, cause you've got, um, your ministry, right.

And so like this, this video game ministry, is this, is this through new life?

This is attached.

Like where, where, walk us through the Genesis.

You, you kind of fast forwarded, which is awesome, 170 people, like walk us through like day one, where'd this thing start with?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, so started, um, so me, me personally, I can remember where I was, where I was driving.

Actually, I'd been praying for six months, uh, with my, my small group that I wanted something, um, that had more purpose.

It felt like it connected more of the dots, um, because I, you know, I, I feel like I was just kind of going through the motions.

I wasn't working at a church at the time, wasn't doing anything like that.

And, um, as I was, I was praying about this stuff, um, I remember where I was, where I felt like God just said, you know, what about a game church?

And, um, that almost crashed because I was just like, that's such a crazy idea.

Um, but it like makes sense.

Like immediately it was like this, just all of the, that makes so much sense for so many reasons.

And, um, so I, I Googled game church, uh, and there was one organization literally called game church and, uh, I joined it and I emailed them and I think they were kind of like, okay, you know, whatever.

And, uh, it, it was a Facebook group, um, they went to, uh, and they still do.

They, they went to events like, um, PAX.

I ended up going to PAX West, uh, and they would set up a table, um, hand a lanyards and tell people Jesus loves you.

I mean, it was very, very basic.

It was just like, here's the, the, the very, we don't want to go too far into any of this.

And, and that was really good.

And I was a part of that Facebook group.

Um, that's a, that's a big group.

That's bigger than this is a big, big group.

And, uh, they, they did that for years.

And eventually I, I started to notice that I could only get so far with people like communication wise.

We, we, we weren't really seeing any, um, you know, not that baptism is like the epitome of everything.

Um, you know, sometimes you plant seeds and the idea was to plant seeds in this group, but I really wanted, I, I didn't know.

I couldn't see a logical connection of like where people would go on that, you know?

And so it was like, I'm seeing a need.

And so I'm, I was an admin of this, of this group.

Like I was, I was really into it.

And, um, so I wanted to go a little deeper.

And so I built, um, we started this discord, uh, and with other people in game church.

And it was, it was a game church type thing.

And the thought was in the, in the Facebook group, um, we had a policy to not talk about overly religious things.

This is a religious group.

And the, the idea was that we don't want to, uh, push people away that are joining from the, that community because they see it for the very first time.

It's just like this crazy over the spiritualist thing.

But the problem is that that, that also kept us from being able to go deep with people and the things, if they wanted it.

Um, and we couldn't tell if they wanted it or not.

And then we just seemed like we weren't any different than just a normal gaming group, you know?

And so what, where's the difference?

Um, I just, this started to happen, notice all this stuff.

And, um, so we said, if that group is the lobby, the lobby of a church or whatever, then we needed a place that, um, actually that would be the like outside area.

We, we needed a lobby.

We need a place that people can actually come to and talk with each other.

And, um, just posting a Facebook message and then somebody else posting underneath, like I'll never get a deep conversation that way.

Uh, I might get one string of thought, but like, I need, I need more than that.

If I'm going to have a conversation with somebody like this conversation we're having, imagine how long that Facebook thread is.

And we're doing it in an hour.

It would take all day, you know, it's just, it's not fast enough.

Um, so we, we started a discord, um, people started to talk and it was really good for a long time.

It was like me, every other message to just keep the conversation going.

I felt like a, like a human AI for a while.

It's like, you know, submit a word and I'll submit one back, you know, or something back.

And it was, it was very, um, it was kind of slow, but as it started to build and build, we got more and more people.

Um, I could kind of leave for a little bit and other people would, you know, respond and it's just slow.

But as it builds up, um, so that, that's, that's the, where it started.

We did, we had a point in time though, where, um, there was a huge falling out with admins, um, leadership.

Honestly, it was specific leadership in game church and, um, as happens.

And, uh, and so we just decided along with a couple other people, we're going to break off and we're going to do a separate thing.

Um, we became love clan, uh, which is something that the, the like name kind of started from a, uh, we had a sport or not a sports.

We, uh, like a, uh, call a duty clan called love clan.

Um, back when I worked at another church.

And so it was just like, I would go that direction.

And, um, another group became love the nerd, uh, and they're really cool doing kind of the same thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're, they're great.

They're super great.

You should look them up too.

Love the nerd.

Um, and, and they do, uh, sort of a more blog style, uh, where they'll come up with articles.

That are specifically geared towards gamers and the nerd culture.

Uh, and then they'll, they'll put kind of a Christian spin on it.

So.

Wait, I've seen that.

Wait, wait, seriously.

Like the love thy nerd, uh, the blog.

Yeah.

I've read that's good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So there there's, that's kind of in the same.

Yeah.

We're all, yeah, we're, yeah, we were all at one point in time, we were all together.

So we were all in game church.

Um, we split actually the guy that really ran the game church side of things is now running the

the, the love the nerd thing.

So there's a lot of some similarities probably between what game church and love the nerd,

um, are.

And then ours was because we already had a community that was, um, like even separate

from the Facebook thing.

Cause we were doing gaming events and stuff like that.

It's kind of like they focused, um, further in, we were, we were very outreach group.

Um, game church was very outreach.

Obviously we would go to conventions and hand stuff out and all that.

Um, and I, and I wanted more of the like personal, um, intimate connection stuff, more discipleship,

like you're saying.

And, um, um, so I, we did the, the discord and they became even better.

I think at what they were doing as far as the, uh, outreach and game church took on different

management.

And so game church is continuing doing what they're doing it.

For me, it feels like, um, you know, like a forced, like God forced us to multiply.

Like this thing happens, you know, what, what seemed like it was bad is actually going to

turn out for good.

And, um, now there's three groups and we only had one, you know, so it is, it's a great thing

in the long run at the time, obviously it hurt.

But, uh, now we have a group that's really good at outreach and like, we're getting pretty

good at discipleship and yeah, it's, it's good.

This is amazing, Jeff.

Cause could we actually be talking about our very first online church split?

You know what I'm saying?

You know, kind of like times in the past, like, Hey church.

Has a youth ministry, youth ministry wants to take it to a certain area.

Those folks grow up and all of a sudden, you know, the leadership that's in play is like,

no, we're not going that direction.

We're going this direction.

Next thing you know, you got two churches and both of them, you know, well-meaning reaching

their community, doing great gospel work, but there was just a disagreement.

There was a Paul and Barnabas moment where it was split.

We don't get along, but God used that at the end of the day.

It's fascinating.

It's great.

Like, and Jay, you've mentioned this.

And the first time I met you, like, right, I've released virtually, I met you.

I think you hit me up to the website and we started talking.

Yeah, it virtually counts.

But we, you were talking to think that I was like, man, this is this, I got, I got to talk

to this guy because you use the game, video game ministry and discipleship, like in the

same sentence.

And I'm like, okay, anybody's using video games, like Xbox, PS4.

Like, I just, I got to understand this.

And discipleship means so many things, like, like the label itself.

And so like, let's, let's put some tangibleness to this.

What does discipleship look like in context of video gaming, of the people that you're reaching?

Like, what is the goal?

If you have a process, what's the goal of your process to help people?

Sure, yeah, yeah, no, you're right.

That is, that is a thing.

Like, I mean, we could talk forever on what does disciple actually mean?

Because there's full books that are like, yeah, I got it down.

And then like, you go to the next store down and they're just like, totally different thing.

You know, I've heard the original word for disciple would be like a learner, like somebody who learns.

I've heard a apprentice, you know, is the word disciple.

It's one that we've taken more of a Christian term now.

I usually tend to lean towards seeing disciple as somebody who hears and follows God.

That's, that's the definition that we use at New Life.

So it's in there somewhere.

It's someone who hears and follows God and wants to continue learning about God and teach

others to learn about God.

So it's something like that, you know?

And so I think that's, with that in mind, that's, that's where I go to is like, how do

I, how do I have processes that help me help people hear and follow God in a new way?

Um, also help people learn about God.

Maybe if they, they've been shut down to it, how do I, how do I, as that work?

Um, so there, there are lots of different ways to do that.

Um, if you, I know we talked last time a little bit about three circles.

Uh, yeah, that's, it's, uh, um, Bill Smith, um, and Jeff McDaniels.

Those are two names.

Definitely look up.

T4T is a book that we put out at, uh, well, yeah.

So look those up.

Those are really good.

T4T.

Um, but those, those ideas, it's like, how do we take the strategies that churches are,

um, are using and to, to train disciples?

How do we take those things and bring them into an online space?

And it's, um, it usually happens, um, organically.

And I say it happens organically because God works inorganically.

God, God will, will do things in ways that are like completely not natural.

Um, and, and it becomes natural when over time.

So like by praying for God, I had it to go ahead of us.

He does, you know, and, um, a lot of times it's like, okay, I have tools, God.

I'm prepared.

Just let me speak boldly.

If you put something in front of me, I'll be ready for it.

And, and then it happens and, and like, can't emphasize enough the importance of, of prayer

in this thing.

Um, because I would pray.

I, so just, I'll do, I'll do, uh, an example.

I, um, I, I did a destiny raid, the like really long destiny has these raids that are like,

oh man, sometimes three hours.

If you're doing it the first time, it can go even longer.

The first time I did the vault of glass took me like seven hours, I think, because it was

like the first time you're doing it and you have to do it with a group.

So you take like six people and you all go and try and do this thing and you just all

shut your schedules down for like the rest of the day.

And, um, and so we, we did this thing and, and while you're doing it, you're not really

talking because you're having to communicate.

It's very in depth, um, very mechanically specific of what you have to, it's a puzzle.

Um, it's like a three hour puzzle.

And I, um, you know, I completed it with this group of guys, these random people I found

online.

And at the end, this guy was just kept talking and it like, everybody else was like, Hey,

thanks for the run.

Really good.

Nice to meet you guys.

And then they're leaving the chat.

And, um, and this guy just kept talking like, yeah, Hey, thanks guys.

Yeah.

You know, I got work in the morning, but I, you know, yeah, I work at this place down the

street, you know, that's just how it goes.

And it was just like, it like just really wanted, I guess, communication or something.

And so I stuck around in the chat.

I'm, I'm like looking for a way to leave, but it's not happening.

And before I know it's just him and I together in the chat.

And, uh, and, and so I was like, I got, I don't, I don't know.

This is kind of like a weird place to whatever, but let's, you know, what, let's just go for

it.

And so I asked him, you know, well, what do you do?

Um, and he said, I'm, uh, well, I'm, I'm in the, uh, air force or something like that.

And I was like, Oh, cool.

You know, what do you do?

Oh, well, I work at a church and that's usually an in for me.

Cause I, I can just, I work at a church.

Oh, what kind of church?

Where do you, you know, so on and so forth.

And that conversation, he, he basically said, um, oh yeah, well, there's, there's actually

a bunch of churches, uh, in our, in our place where we're at, uh, in the, um, I don't,

I think he was, um, this like flight, flight stuff.

I don't know if he actually flew or whatever, but he was saying, yeah, there's, there's lots

of, um, different churches and I've been trying all of them, but I was just, wasn't sure what

to, you know, how to, what to make of them and like, which one to, to go to.

And so we were able to like, literally go into, here's like the Bible and, uh, three, three

circles and then so on and so forth.

And when we did this over chat and, um, and then he left and I've seen him a couple of

times in chat here and there, but it was just like, that, that felt like planting a seed,

you know, like that's, that's a seed more than just Jesus loves you.

And like, yeah, everybody had already heard that or whatever before.

Um, but the, the same thing, I was like, that was pretty crazy.

And then the next time I did a raid, the exact same thing happened.

And I was like, I got, I, this, I mean, this is just wild, like the exact same thing.

And so I was just like, whatever, God, uh, okay, what do you do?

Right.

That's from the same thing.

And he said, oh, well, um, I'm a carpenter.

And I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is a softball one.

Like, I know a carpenter, you know, like, yeah.

So it happens.

I mean, it really, you know, it's like, come on, that was easy.

Um, yeah, but that, that, that's the, so the online, the, the end game stuff, um, we're,

we're figuring that out.

It doesn't always happen, but it's, it's an openness.

Uh, like once you, it's the same thing.

I don't tell people when they're, they're learning discipleship that it's like, okay,

the end goal of this is that you go to the mall and you find somebody and then you convert

them or whatever, like that, that may happen.

And that's really good when it does.

But I want you to like, pray about this and have God show people in your life that like

oikos, you know, like who are the people in your sphere of influence currently that you

can be, um, you can be talking to.

And, uh, the, the thing for the online game industry is it's like, you're already talking

to these people.

I just want you to be hearing what God's saying, if he's saying anything.

And, and if it shows up, then like go for that, you know?

Um, and that's what we're trying to get people to understand.

So I don't know if there's a strategy for that one as much, but the, there's definitely

a strategy for how to, um, reach people to get to that stage.

Like Christians that maybe haven't seen their games as something they could use as ministry.

And, um, for me, it's taking the verses seriously that say in everything that I do glorify God,

you know, like that includes my gaming, like that includes my personal time and my entertainment

time.

And, and it's not, yeah, on Sundays from one hour, like that's where I glorify God.

It's, you know, it's, it's everything.

It's my whole life.

So, uh, yeah, that's powerful, man.

Uh, how, how then are you encouraging other people to kind of take on the same thing?

Because I imagine there's a lot of people in your sphere, like you're saying that have

a passion both for gaming and they see the potential for its ability to reach people for

Christ or even to disciple folks.

So how does that transition to the next person?

Not just from you, the leader.

Yeah.

So we have a core group, um, in love clan, and those are kind of the people that, um,

they've identified themselves as people who are just active in that community.

Um, but they're also like spiritual leaders.

They're people that, uh, are, are almost plants in our group that like, if they see an opportunity,

they're going to hop on it.

Um, we talk about like wolf pack of just when somebody new joins, you wolf pack them, you

know, like, you're just like, yeah, how's it going?

You're just a full of like flood them with love.

There's so often that people will join and just leave immediately.

It's like, ah, not what I was looking for, you know?

But if like eight people are like, Hey, how's it going?

Hey, how's it going?

It's like, okay, well, I mean, like I feel really connected already and I just joined.

So, um, like that kind of, uh, getting that stuff that the, the basics, that's a good,

that's a starting place.

Um, having people feel like there's a community, but, uh, with our core group, we've talked

about these things being intentional and all the stuff I've, you know, I've been talking

about.

Those are things we'll talk about in our core group.

Um, and for the very first time, this is, this has been really good.

Uh, Tuesday actually, which is why I'm kind of glad we delayed this.

Tuesday was our, our very first Bible study.

Um, so we did a Bible study online.

Um, actually some of the stuff, uh, Jeff, that you had shared in a, uh, a post about somebody

else that did a similar thing.

Um, yeah.

So we were like, we're reading through that.

I shared that with our group and they were like, yeah, that's, this is encouraging.

Like we need to do this stuff.

And, um, and so it was really like, um, this is actually where it's, where it's kind of nice.

The limitations help us in this way.

Uh, discord currently has a limitation of 10 people to a voice channel.

So it's kind of like zoom in, in, in, it's the same.

We could do a voice channel or we can do a video channel and we can talk and all this.

Uh, but with discord, the max is 10 people and you can talk as long as you want and you

don't have to pay for it.

So, you know, zoom has like a 40 minutes.

You have a limit or something or you have to pay for it and you have to do certain, there's

certain limitations.

Um, as long as it's 10 people, you're totally unlimited with discord, at least currently.

So our, um, yeah.

And so that, there you go.

10 people is the max for our small group and we're doing, we'll do a video chat.

And, and so our, um, the, the push there for discipleship for multiplication literally comes

from a currently technological, you know, people, they don't realize that it's more than that.

I want one, a small group to be more than 10 people anyway, but I can blame it on like,

Hey guys, like I, you know, sorry, we literally can't have more than 10 people.

There's other people out here who want to have this, what we're having right now, a discussion.

And so, um, and so like, I, I need you guys to lead this group.

So either I can go and I smart start as another group that's at another time, or, you know,

you guys lead this group, test it.

Um, we'll do the, um, like, uh, so last week was the first one.

And at the end of it, I told them, Hey, I'm going to do this like one more time, but I

need you guys to like be watching because I literally, we fit, we filled that group that

like there was seven this week, but there was already 10 planned.

And the other slots were people that said like, Hey, I can't this week cause I have finals,

but I need to like, I'll be there next week or, or, you know, stuff like that.

And so we have 10, like we're at 10 and I didn't, I messaged like 12 people, maybe like

it was like immediately people are like, Oh, we're into that.

Like, yeah, we want to be part of that.

That's something that we're interested in.

So, I mean, we got 10 immediately and, um, I have a whole list of names of people that

I probably could message and fill another group right now.

Um, so I just need like another, another leader.

And, uh, so the, this group, I said, I'm going to let you guys watch, watch what I'm doing.

It's going to be, uh, you watch, um, or I do you watch and then I do you help.

And then you do, I help.

And then you do, I watch.

And by then, you know, four weeks from now or whatever, we should have another leader that

has done it at least enough times, um, or we can swap, have a couple of different people

do it.

And, uh, and then like, okay, we're going to go do another group.

Does somebody want to go do one or are you guys going to stay here and then I'll go do

one?

Um, and just kind of leave that open.

So, I mean, the thought is it really just multiplies to the point that, you know, as people

catch on and realize that it's really not hard.

I, I, I, I purposefully take less time planning.

This was really big with our, um, it just stopped me at any point in time.

The, the, the Tuesday group, I purposefully take less, um, less time planning it than I

do doing it because it's not a sermon.

It's not a, um, it's just a discussion.

Uh, and so I, I don't want to take too much time in, um, in planning it because then it'll

just be that and less of a discussion.

And so when we do it, I just have post-it notes.

Um, and this is another thing learned from, uh, I think it may be in T4T, but it's definitely

something that new life taught from whoever that, you know, I wish I could get the original

person really like Bill Smith.

Uh, he's done a ton for us, but the, um, the idea of, uh, five questions and it's, what

is this, uh, when reading through the Bible, what does this say about God?

What does this say about people?

What does this say about you?

What are you going to do about it?

And who are you going to share it with?

Those are like five questions.

And, uh, as I'm reading through the chapters that we're going to talk about, I just have

sticky notes on the side and I literally write God question mark.

And I put it on the sticky note, like on that, that section.

If I feel like that's a section that talks about what is this, what does this say about

God?

Or if it's a section that's like, oh, this is really weird about people.

What does it say about people?

Or if it's like kind of deep, it's like, what does it say about you?

And, um, and then I'll just go through the Bible as we're going and like read the sticky

notes.

And like, this is the section that sticky notes connected to.

So I guess read that section and it takes me as much time as it takes to just read those

chapters.

Um, I planned for, we're using, um, if you know, Tim Mackey, he, he does the Bible project.

Um, those like, well, he has, he has a group now, the Bible project, but it was started by

Tim Mackey.

Um, he was lead pastor at, uh, door of hope church in, in Portland and they have animated

videos that are like perfect for visually showing stuff.

So we'll like watch the animated videos.

Um, right now we're going through acts.

So it was acts one through seven.

And that was my plan was that we'd get through acts one through seven, because that was what

we got through when we did, um, I did a small group, a young adult, small group locally.

And so the plan was to just, okay, since we'd already done this young adult, small group

locally, it'll be really easy to just do that with the online one.

And then I, I don't have to think about it as much.

And, um, we were going to do one through seven and, uh, I had all these notes, you know,

I want to make sure that we don't like run out of content and stuff like that.

We talked through chapter one.

It took us an hour to get through acts one.

We got through two of my post-it notes and one of them said, what does it say about God?

And one of them said, what does it say about people?

And that was literally it.

That's all for this first small group.

That's all we got through for an hour and a half.

Um, and it was like, okay, you know, like it's so easy to think like, this is going to

be really hard to do.

I can get myself in my head that starting a small group is going to be a ton of my time

and ton of work.

And instead it turns into, I am reading the Bible actively because I have to think about

having questions and I do that for like what an extra hour in my week.

Like I'd already wanted to do that anyway.

And now I have accountability for it, which is great because if I have accountability, then

I can actively give accountability to other people.

And then I'm, we're leading a discussion, which is like easy.

I thought I have, I have the next like seven weeks planned at this rate.

Like I plan for one week and it's like, who knows how long it'll take.

So yeah, it's, it's honestly just, it was, it's really easy.

Yeah.

You just message people and say, do you want to be a part of a small group?

And they were like, yeah, you know, and then, okay.

And, and I also, I messaged people ahead of time saying, would you lead a small group?

I messaged like five people.

Nobody wanted to do that, but you lead a small group one time and show them how easy it is

and how little you planned the fact that you hit two post-it notes and that you just read

through acts one through whatever.

But what I love what you're doing here is you're, you're, you're modeling, you're, you're

giving examples.

Yeah.

Like you're, you're doing, um, abstract ministry.

You're first off, you're creating a discipleship system.

You're also working with video gamers.

And, and we, we didn't really hit on this.

Like you're connected to a church, but the church really isn't like backing the ministry,

right?

This is kind of, there's also no fees.

I mean, the entire, from the beginning, the whole point was that it's literally all free.

There's no cost involved at all.

And that's was intentional from the beginning, but.

You know, and so you trying to get people from, from the outside to buy into this vision,

to, to, to lead a small group, to be part of a discipleship thing.

Like you have to show an example of what that looks like, you know, we've been churches

who are doing like church online and, you know, what we can talk about online, small groups

or discipleship online to a lot of times, like people have no idea what the concept even,

even is.

And so your example of, I do, you watch, I do, you help, you do, I help, you do, I watch,

you know, at that four week, that's a, that's a fast turnaround time, but even still, that's

a great example of, Hey, I'm going to train you to duplicate me.

You're going to become very soon.

So I can step out and go do something else somewhere else.

And so I can help the next group get started.

That's awesome.

So of your 50 core, you're really looking at what, like 10 or 10 or 12 that are, that

are doing a group.

Now, do you like, and the goal is to you to release that group and go start another 10.

Is that how you're really starting to know?

So yeah, no, we have, so we have, um, the core, uh, I'd say as far as our like community

goes, people that are chatting regularly, we probably have 50 people.

Um, and then there's a lot of lurkers.

So there's a lot of people that'll pop in every once in a while.

Um, we did a survey recently and, uh, yeah, I didn't mention this.

So yeah, I'd say originally we were probably about 50, 50 Christian, non-Christian.

We recently did a survey, um, three years later now, and it was like 95%.

Like identifying as Christian.

Um, a lot of those people that are on that list, I, I remember the first time that they

posted in prayer, like, and they were said, I don't usually do this, you know?

And, uh, I I'd say most of their, like, when I think about planting seeds, it's like, these

are people that for the first time they're talking about prayer.

They're feeling like this is something that they can relate with.

And then they found like a local church.

And that was kind of our big push for a long time was that you should find a local family,

a local place that you can go to.

Um, for some people, that's just not something they're probably going to do.

Um, and I get that, but I do feel like a local family is, is really necessary for a lot of

different reasons, but are, um, you know, it's how do we make, how do we make these things,

uh, easier for online?

Like one of the main reasons I'd want you to find a local place is so you can be in a

small group.

So if I can like break that barrier one by just doing it online, then, okay, then we'll

do that, you know?

Um, but that, that now that there's a, a, a seeing that we've switched to mostly, uh, most

of our core group being Christian, then, then that's really where I felt the, the drive this

year for the first time of like, okay, we're going to go real hard into discipleship then,

because I don't want you to coast like this isn't a group for the Christian huddle.

It's not just like, um, you know, I, I don't want just people that feel like your goal here

is to just talk to other Christians that play games.

Cause that's not our, there are groups for that.

That's not this group.

And, um, there's also a, a tendency with doing a small group is that it can become hungry,

hungry Christian where it's just like, I just want more information.

And like, oh, like, what does this say in Greek and Hebrew?

And like, you know, it's just like, no, no, no.

Like think about this in the term of, and we, that's why we do this from the beginning.

I want you to look at this verse as somebody that would look at this verse for the first

time.

How do you take this verse and give it to somebody?

It's like why the fifth one is who are you going to share it with?

Because verses become new when you think about them in the context of somebody who is new.

And like, how do I, how do I give this verse to somebody else?

If it's something I've heard a thousand times, have I shared it a thousand times?

Like, and that's tweetable, man.

That was good.

Like, it's like, like if it's, yeah, it's, it's like somebody told you this verse so many

times, but like, are you giving it to somebody is, is a real thing.

Um, and, and we do tend to just be really, um, cycle, you know, and we're not like, we're

not giving it to somebody else.

We're just taking it in.

Um, you know, it's the same idea.

Like your cup, like your cups overflowing and it's like, yeah, it's going to keep being

filled.

Can you like pour it into who can you pour into so that you can have an like empty cup to

like fill it again.

And, uh, yeah, it's just that mindset.

I think it's really a, a cultural thing of just that don't, don't get in this cycle.

Uh, and I, I, I believe it does start at like a leadership stage.

Like you, from the top down, you have to be intentional in discipleship or else it just

becomes, you know, this has been a really nice, uh, lesson, you know, or whatever.

Jake, just real quick before we close, um, cause I imagine that Jeff and I are going to

be having you on again, cause really this has been just amazing to talk through.

And I also want to find out like how the group continues to grow.

Um, but yeah, just excited to see kind of what happens next with that and, and see what

the Lord's doing in you.

Uh, just some quick, fun questions before we go, uh, preferred video game method or system.

Ooh, uh, system, easy PC.

Um, I made the switch from Xbox a long time ago.

Uh, when it looked back, it's, it's great.

Um, and then what was the other one?

No, did you custom, did you custom build it or, or, well, it's been custom built now.

It's like, it, it looks like something out of Iron Man or something.

It's all like very, not, not in a good way.

It's the bad Iron Man where it's like the, like stuff like glued to the side and they're

like, you know, stuff is like, yeah, it's really not good, but I'm, I'm hoping, I'm hoping

AMD, uh, Ryzen third gen is going to be great and I can build a new computer cause I'm like

waiting for that.

So yeah, that's, uh, we'll see where that goes.

Cool.

All time favorite game.

Oh boy.

I don't like that question.

All right.

I don't, I don't know.

I I've like thought about it long and hard and decided that I just don't have any clue.

No, no idea.

That's completely fine.

Nostalgia game that you love to get lost in.

Ooh.

Uh, nostalgia game would probably be super Mario, super Mario world.

Just, just because there's like so much, um, we had a, well now I'm like changing my answer

a billion times, but the, I'll stick with that one.

We, uh, my family had a thing that was like, you, we won't get you another game until you

beat the one you have.

Um, and super Mario world had like a percentage thing in it.

Usually it was just, you beat the game, you get to the end screen that have had a percentage.

So it was like, no, you haven't beat it yet.

It still says 90% or something.

I was like, no, I beat Bowser.

Like I beat him.

And so I had to go find all the hidden stuff.

And like, there's so many hidden things in that game.

There's no way I could do that today without Google.

And like, I still have no idea how I found like the star road or like how I found special

world or zone or whatever.

Like I have no idea, but somehow I did that as a kid without a guide.

So that game still has like, yeah, I'm like, ha ha ha.

Like you missed that thing because you didn't know it's like, I know I have that whole

game like embedded in my brain.

So yeah, it's a, that's a nostalgia thing for me.

Very cool, man.

I don't want to put an age on you, but I'm going to put an age on you.

How old are you?

Oh boy.

Uh, 27.

So you're 27 years old and you decided, Hey, I'm going to start a discipleship ministry

on, uh, for, for video gaming.

Like I just, and I asked that question, not cause you know, you're 27, but man, that's

impressive to have, to have, to have, to have that heart and that vision to do some non-traditional

ministry like this.

And so, man, I just wanted to encourage you in this, like you're, you're doing a lot of

things, um, that are unconventional.

You're, um, doing a discipleship only with no budget independent, uh, outside of a church.

Yes, you work at a church and you're using resources, but it's, it's outside of that church's

kind of direction, which is a great church.

Um, and you're doing it centered around video games.

It's like, there's a bunch of stuff that's like, that's not going to work.

That's not going to work.

Why would you even try that?

Yet strangely, what you're seeing now, even within the past month or so, since we've been

talking, you're seeing growth and development in those areas.

So man, be encouraged by that.

Uh, that's phenomenal listeners who are out there.

Uh, man, be like Jade, uh, not, not like play seven hours of destiny in a row.

But if you do play seven hours of destiny and God leads you to pull it, to, to have a conversation

with somebody, how awesome is that?

But no, take, take a risk, take a chance.

I put on Facebook a while back.

It's like, like the masters failed more than the, uh, than the apprentice has tried.

And so get out there.

That is deep, right?

Uh, it was on, it was on a Newhoff podcast, uh, maybe a month or so ago, but get out there

and try, get out there and take a chance.

Try something different, uh, for the sake of the gospel, for the sake of, of discipleship,

for the sake of the kingdom.

Yeah.

It's funny you mentioned that game, uh, Jeff, because you know, there's so many shared experiences

that we have that take a long time that don't lead to gospel conversations that I'm like,

no, Jade took complete advantage of that.

And so there's no time lost.

Like Lauren and I went to a Red Sox game last week.

We were in Boston.

We were at a Sox game for like three or four hours that didn't lead to a gospel conversation

afterwards, but man, if it did, that would have been amazing.

Uh, so many of us out there have seen Avengers end game that that's three hour block in the

movie theater that if it led to a gospel conversation afterwards, man, that'd be huge.

Jade leveraged a puzzle that brought in a whole lot of people that he wasn't, that he doesn't

know and brought them together in community.

And he leveraged that for the sake of the gospel.

That's magnificent, man.

I say, be like Jade, man, even if it means you're Spain spending three or four hours on

a game and you're taking apart puzzles, man.

I say, be like Jade, man.

That's huge.

There you go.

We're, we're all going to get like, be like Jade tattoos.

It's going to be great.

Don't do that.

Yeah.

I, I, I, I think I said this last time, but my, like, my prayer, like almost starts and

ends with like, God, you got to humble me.

So, I mean, like that, that is my, my biggest fear is like, no, like, I don't want to,

I don't want to get like a bloated head about anything.

So yeah, don't, do not get my name tattooed.

That would be bad.

Yeah, that would be bad.

That, that mentality, like you're saying, just to, to end it is, is the, everything that

you do, you know, do it for the glory of God.

And so I know somebody is probably listening.

That's like, but not this, you know, not this thing that I do.

And it's like, I mean, what, what is this?

If, if it's something you can't do for the glory of God, you probably shouldn't be doing

it.

Let's put it that way, you know?

So find something.

And I don't think that means, you know, that we're going to have, you need to just be singing

all the time.

If that's what you do, then I mean, good.

But like, take the things that you're doing and just think about it a little deeper, you

know, how can you find a community in that?

And how can you be intentional?

Like, that's our word for this year in Love Clan is it's doing the same things you were

doing, but you're doing them intentionally.

And that's, that's also, it's just really important for discipleship is intentionality.

Cool.

Hey, Jay, if somebody wants to find Love Clan, if somebody wants to find you on social media,

more information, where do they go?

Sure.

Yeah, Love Clan, loveclan.net.

I think that still works.

I haven't checked it recently.

We're Discord.

So I usually send discord.gg backslash what is love.

Baby, don't hurt me.

And the, that, that's the usual ones that you'd look for.

If you wanted to find me, I'm jadeerhart on Facebook, or sometimes I'll use tweets, but

for the most part, it's just Facebook or Discord.

My Discord's jate, pound, zero, zero, zero, one.

So pretty easy to find there if you wanted.

And loveclan.net does work as of when we recorded this.

Yeah, it's supposed to be a link through, so.

Awesome.

Well, for Jay, for Ray, my name is Jeff.

Man, it's been a great time and glad y'all could join us.

And we'll see you next time on the Church Digital Podcast.

Thanks, everybody.