EP021: Danielle Hicks & Elevation’s Watch Parties

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Welcome to The Church Digital Podcast. My name is Jeff, and once again,

it's a pleasure to have you all join us for the podcast today. We're on episode 21,

and I love this. This is actually, and I'm going to call myself out publicly here. This is the first

podcast we've had where we've invited a woman on the podcast. It took us 21 of these publicly. I

apologize for this. Secondly, I need to get more women involved in church online because, yeah, we need a

better representation of that, but we've got a great episode here to kick it off.

Danielle Hicks, you'll hear me call her Danny occasionally on the podcast. She is the watch

party pastor at Elevation Church. Now, if you're not familiar with watch parties, and we talk

a lot about it, obviously, in this episode, it's Elevation Church's attempt to gather people together,

but a cluster people together in community to watch these broadcasts. And so Elevation's had a long

history of these, obviously, with their broadcast centered out of the Charlotte and North Carolina

area. Their broadcasts have become quite large, and people from across the country have started

gathering together to watch these services, almost becoming like a house church or a microlocation,

gathering together to come together for community to do church that's broadcast in over the internet.

We talked about a similar model, obviously, with First Capital Christians Church Anywhere program.

It's been a couple episodes talking about that in 17, 18, 19 episode. We also, going way back to

Jay Cranda over at Saddleback, talked a lot about that with their house groups as well, and they're

also ramping up into more of this. So there's a popular movement here with some churches that have

been successful with church online to take that next step to start to cluster together to create

biblical communities, to create new communities of gathering together to do this expression of church

anywhere, utilizing church online. And so we really break this down. It was a fascinating conversation

with Danielle, with Danny, and I'm excited for you to hear it. So once again, we've got Ray Diarmus,

online pastor at Christ Fellowship Miami. Danielle Hicks, watch party pastor at Elevation Church. Myself,

Jeff Reed, thechurch.digital, breaking down watch parties through Elevation Church. Here y'all go.

So Danielle, just tell us a little bit here about what you do at Elevation and maybe life at Elevation,

what that looks like. Yeah, for sure. So my role here at the church is watch party pastor,

which sometimes sounds like a fake title. I feel like a little bit. I tell me like, what is that?

Define that. It's actually the first watch party pastor role that we've had at our church.

And the heart of that is really putting some new emphasis and infrastructure to watch parties

as we figure out what that looks like, you know, as we're administering, utilizing the resources online

to reach people face to face and in person. I actually though, I've been on staff for a little

over six years. I was a campus pastor prior to this. And before that was associate pastor at our broadcast

location. So it's been very interesting seeing so many different atmospheres of our church from being at,

you know, where we're broadcasting from, to then being at one of our other locations,

and now getting to see really expressions of the local church reproduced in all of these different

pockets. So. That's awesome. You may be the only person in the world who works at a church and has

party in their title. I know. People always give me a funny look when I, when I say that and I'm like,

well, I, and, and, and just knowing the, the idea and we've talked in previous episodes, uh, with

First Capital Christian Church, who's got 16 of these micro locations where they're, they're utilizing

similar to you, the online broadcast to kind of cluster people together. Um, you know, and he talked a lot

through, through those, uh, episodes, uh, 17, 18, 19, I think, but talked a lot about kind of

clustering and gathering the people together, the tying in of the, uh, using the virtual technology

to create the physical, the community, the people together. So like what, what's been the path for

elevation kind of, you, you were doing the, doing the broadcast, you were all over the place and now

you're, you're gathering them together. Like what has that, that Genesis look like? Yeah. So we've

actually been having pockets or gatherings of people for years in our church. Now we've never

had it quite to this scale and this number, but if we go back even, you know, seven, eight, nine years,

there were groups of people, a couple of our campuses actually started as watch parties, as small groups

of people gathering together to watch the sermon. Um, and so that's been happening for a while. We've

called it different things. So we had what were called extension sites for a while, which were

gatherings of people. A couple were at, at schools, at colleges, a couple in cities. And that was just

where, uh, organic pockets of people were created and people that wanted a campus near them, but there

wasn't one. So they kind of started doing their own thing. Now the difference then with, um, extension

or back in that season was we created really intentional benchmarks, uh, where almost these

extension sites were kind of considered on a continuum or considered to be on a continuum to

becoming a location would be the goal one day. And so there were very clear definitions of, you know,

reach, you reach this number and then this happens. Your next goal is reaching this number in attendance and then

this happens. And, uh, I think that worked for our church for a while, but then when we began to

leverage technology and see now that, you know, for a while we've had local church happening and then

this emphasis on our online ministry. And I think we've always been traveling side by side, you know,

not competing with one another, but figuring out how are we actually complimentary and how does one

build and grow the other? I'm sure that's the tension of, you know, anyone doing both of these sides.

But I think when we began to leverage the online platform and also leverage the data that we have,

you know, now we're able to actually see where people are tuning in from and hear where they're

worshiping from. When we started to combine that with these gatherings, that's when the scale began

to increase. And so now, you know, a lot of the heart for watch parties now is that it's not this

continuum, you know, as if you're a watch party today, hopefully one day, maybe you'll be a campus.

It's more of how do we create something where the goal is this sustained sense of community and watch

parties. And so I think that's been a big part of the evolution is it's no longer, you know,

for example, our Albuquerque, New Mexico watch party, I'm not telling them, hey, hit this number

so that then you'll receive, you know, this support or these resources or this different type of backing

from our church. But instead, it's continue to grow so that you can multiply across your city

to reach different parts of your community. And so it's really best about getting as big as possible

and instead allowing the reach to be as expansive as possible, if that makes sense.

Absolutely. Danielle, this is really encouraging. I've been following this for quite a bit from you

guys from afar, just with the whole not limited by location kind of campaign that you guys have been doing.

What was kind of the genesis behind that? Because I saw that I understood it immediately. I was like,

this is amazing the way that they're communicating this.

So I think a lot of what happened is, you know, people come to visit our church and this is the

thing still, you know, I've been on staff for a while and I'm still just dumbfounded by how people

just want to come visit and be in the atmosphere of what God is doing. And I think it's so much less

about elevation and it's more about just the spirit of God and how he's moving within the people of our

church. And there's this deep sense of unity. And I know God is doing this everywhere, but there is

something at our church that happens that draws people in. And I think, I think when I, we began

to see that sense of people would often say, you know, oh, but I wish there was a campus here or I

wish I lived in Charlotte. And I think the heart of this being not limited by location is not that we

would reinforce this value or principle of someone needs to be here at our church in order to experience

God. But how do we understand that they have that same access to the Holy Spirit and even that same

ability to build community. And if they want to do it through the community of our church, they're able

to. And so I think that's the tension point though, as we say that not limited by location is, we don't

want people to feel that limitation, but we do want them to feel deeply rooted in their city and in their

community and allowing them to build something there.

That's really good. How do you guys set expectations early on that the goal isn't essentially to become a

campus? Because I imagine some folks when it starts growing, and I know that some of them have really

picked up steam, they start thinking to themselves, oh man, I'm gonna be a campus pastor, this kind of

thing's going to happen. Or, or, you know, they may think that they may have like a certain level of

access or anything like that. But really, it's the focus is, is no, God's working through you where

you're at. We want to continue to empower you where you're at. How do you guys maintain that?

That's right. Do you have some tips and tricks you'd like to give me today?

Because I want to hear it. I want to hear what you've done, because I imagine that's got to be

really hard maintaining the right expectations.

It is, it is. And I think a lot of times, I think the thing that isn't helpful for people

is telling them, you will never be a location. And I think sometimes we can try to overemphasize that

in order to protect people's expectation. But really, my heart is never to tell someone what

they're not going to be. You know, like I wouldn't, I don't have kids yet. But when I do, you know,

I'll never tell them what they will not be. But hopefully, I can paint a picture of what it could

be and what it will be. And I think that's been some of the transition even in our church that

I don't know that we always have done that well, where we've tried to make sure that people have

accurate expectations. And instead, we leave almost this space in this gap where we're not helping to

paint a picture or helping to allow people to sort of get in the rhythm of what God is doing. And so

I think in this season, what I'm trying to do, and again, I'm laughing because I'm really trying to

figure out how do we do this well, and keep people encouraged and feeling like they can somewhat

grasp what it is that they're building. Right. It's painting this picture of what does it look

like to have sustained community in specific cities and areas, you know, now people are so tethered

and attached to what's happening within their city. And I don't think this is a new thing. But I think,

you know, as marketing and as technology has just gotten so incredible with, you know,

on my cell phone, I look at, I look at something online, and then the stupid ad pops up on my Instagram

automatically. You know, it's gotten so specific and so unique and personal that I think as the

church, we have to figure out ways that we allow people to feel connected and tethered to their

community. And so all of this, just to circle back, the heart of that is how do we allow people to

understand that that is the focus, is how are they bringing Christ to their city and their community?

It's not about a campus, and it's not about a building. And, you know, I feel like we say this

a lot as the church, you know, it's not about the building, it's about the people. But watch parties

and micro churches and these smaller sites, it's actually when, you know, the time comes to really

prove that we mean that. And to say, no, it truly doesn't matter, because it's the community and the

infrastructure that's built. I know I'm kind of circling your question a little bit. But I think

that's the hardest. Can we paint a picture of sharing with people, what does it look like, if we're not

just on this journey to, for God to provide this campus, you know, we're almost telling God what

we want versus allowing him to show us what is this thing that is sort of unraveling and being

revealed in front of us. And I think the practical step, though, is the thing we're working on now that

we have not figured out that we're trying to is, can we paint a picture of some of the structure?

So the vision is there, but then how do we practically explain to people, here's what we would love to see

created in your community to give them things to start with, you know, whether it's, hey, we'd love

to see five community groups or e-groups built, you call them e-groups at our church, but five

community groups built, you know, in your city. We'd love to see you serving at outreach events,

you know, twice a month, where now you're taking this intangible infrastructure and helping people

to grasp it and understand. But it's such a tension. I just was having a conversation this past weekend

with someone. And I think it's a tension to manage because I also don't want to say we'll never have a

campus there because who knows, right? So if we have a huge group of people, hopefully we're not,

we're not silly. Maybe we will one day, but that can't be the goal, you know, that we're directing

people to. So it's really tough.

How are you guys navigating the tension between being a local church and a national church? And

so I caveat that a little bit with the story, and I was really impressed with this. So a couple years

ago, me and a few staff members went to go visit Elevation in order to see, you know, the live

streaming in the point-to-point that you guys do between campuses because we were looking at it for

our church. And that weekend happened to be the weekend that the riots were happening in Charlotte.

Stephen was on vacation and flew back to preach to Charlotte and he was rocking, I think he was

rocking a Queen City shirt, you know, which was super tight. You know, I'm a 305 guy when it comes

to Miami. So I love like small local tie-in with the area. You better believe it. Yeah. And so I'm all

about like local tie-ins like that. But then I also realized that in the midst of that, because I was

getting ready to make the move to online, I was like, Oh man, this not only because he was talking

directly to what was happening in the community that weekend, which is why he came back, you know,

but, and he addressed that very well within his message. But at the same time, I was like, Oh,

but this is also being heard by a lot of people nationally. And even at these watch parties and

everything else, I'm wondering how you guys navigate some of those tensions between Stevens talking to

people there in South Carolina. And at the same time, he's talking to this movement that's happening

nationally. For sure. Hey, I get excited when you bring this up, because I think this is one thing

I've been on this a little bit of a kick lately about figuring out how do we, you know, be inclusive

of the fact that we're in front of different audiences, but how do we still create a message that shows

people that we are present and we do understand what's happening in individual

communities. And I would say, and this is just, this is my opinion on how we navigate that.

Obviously people and pastor Steven, probably for him, that was value-based in a way of, you know,

understanding that there was a space where our church was looking, you know, for him to share and

him to speak into this, but then understanding that for most of the people listening, you know,

they may not have any context or understanding of what's happening, but here's what I think it does

communicate. And not just even using that weekend as example, but even on our broadcast, you know,

if there's flooding happening in a specific area or hurricane is passing through a specific state,

you know, we know this is a small piece of our audience yet they're part of it. I think when we

speak to a specific local value or local issue or tension or tragedy, I think it still communicates

an overall message that we are present in that community. And I think that probably, in my opinion,

again, it creates less dissonance as benefit of saying, Hey, we're, we are present. We are available.

We understand we're, we're there and we're feeling this with you. And I think the principle would be

that even someone in, you know, in the UK that's watching that would still feel this sense of

connection for the fact that, um, they're experiencing something that part of, you know,

what we call our E fan, their family is also feeling in the same way. And, uh, I think there's probably a

limit to how often you can do this to speak so specifically, but, um, I've actually really been

trying to do this with watch parties and picking out maybe a story or something that's happening in a

community, even understanding that it's a little polarizing maybe because maybe that tension isn't

prevalent everywhere. Um, but still being willing to go straight to that, speak to it. And I think

it's communicating to the other watch parties. Wow. Like the church actually knows what's happening in

Idaho, you know, middle of nowhere that all the love for Idaho, no offense, Idaho, but, um, you know,

they really know what's happening. And so I think, um, I don't know, I think that's probably helpful

sometimes to be able to still do that. Yeah. That's gotta be very encouraging for the volunteers

that are there with boots on the ground, just to know that you guys are present with them and that

you care, um, consider it, because I'm, especially from a volunteer perspective, you know, I'm sure

that they, that they have a hard time dealing with that tension of, man, I'm part of this movement,

but at the same time, I'm so far away from it physically that I feel like I'm part of it,

but I have a hard time connecting with it all the time. Yeah. I was reading an article recently

and it was talking about Nike and a specific ad that they had, which was presencing

individual communities. And, uh, they were zooming way, way in to a specific, I can't remember what

the name of it was, but they were talking about the message that Nike was communicating and that

it's not this big, broad global impact, you know, but they're able to zoom in. And I, uh, I think

that's to me what the brand of watch parties for our church represents. And, uh, it's both,

sometimes it's a bit of a dichotomy, but then also I think it's, it's that we're filling a space

and a gap that was there. So when we talk about, you know, we call it our E-FAM, this is our extended

family. It really, we work hard to show everyone this incredible broad impact. Wow. Look at what

God is doing all over the world. And I think people love to feel a part of something big, but I think

internally, you know, we all want to know that this is still very pertinent to the city I live in.

And, you know, when people give, for example, they're, they're blessed by the fact that, um,

blessed back worldwide, you know, that we're giving to that organization, but Hey, what about the

pregnancy resource center? That's right here in my community. What does that look like for me to be impacting

them? And so I think when we consider our broad online community, we're showing them how look at

this incredible impact, but with watch parties, what we're enabling, um, the people at these in

these communities to do is we're zooming in as far in as possible to say, we see you, we know that

you're there. We want to be present. We want to know what you're walking through. And I think that was

a space that was, um, that was there is this gap that we really needed to fill. And so that's what we're

working on trying to begin to do for sure. You know, where, where churches have seen success,

um, with, with the, with the online church onlines. Um, and we hear this Ray and I hear this week,

week to week, and we have these, these conversations just as we continue to dialogue through it,

but it's, it's in the individuals. So often when you look at, at the masses and thousands upon thousands

attend elevation, uh, physical campuses on a regular basis, um, I can only imagine what the

numbers are, um, virtually and online, but it's, it's masses. I'm sure, uh, watch parties tend to

turn it a little bit and you, you put faces on it and there, there's relationships that are built at the

individual level. Um, and so that's fascinating to me how, um, a mega church moves to some, some of this,

this micro model and kind of feels the tension of that. You talked a little bit about, um,

uh, you know, investing and use that. I think the pregnancy center, the local pregnancy center

was the example that, that you shared from a practical standpoint. I'm just curious because

that's as, as I've done this micro model, we feel the tension of money coming to, uh, the mothership

versus invested in, in, in, in the community, the tithes and things like that. What, what are the,

what are the practicalities of like local missions reaching in the watch party, doing things within

the local community, within that local city? Right. Like how, how do you wrestle with that?

Yeah. So wrestle is the right word because I think that is, uh, one of the biggest tensions

right now that we're walking through, you know, as far as, you know, you may have a watch party that

will say, well, what does it look like? You know, when will the church be able to support this watch

party or support what we're doing? And that's a valid question and concern because there is a cost

that's, um, encourage, you know, to supporting the watch party or for them to put on what they have

each weekend, depending on what it looks like and their atmosphere and all that, um, as well as how are

we impacting those local organizations? So I'll share maybe what we're doing now, probably six

months from now, this will continue to evolve. Um, but we're right. We're entering into love week

actually this week, which is, um, church wide. We serve, um, in different parts of our community here

in Charlotte and beyond. And this is a good example though of, you know, love week has always been a very

much, um, campus oriented event. And then as we added our online ministry and continued to grow it,

you have people that are tuning in that want to contribute and be able to serve their community.

And so we have about, I think 40, 41, 42 events that are happening for love week through our EFAM,

which honestly, like next year, I would love to see that number tripled, you know, because watch

parties really to meet each watch party should be having at least a single event in their community.

The differences, you know, locally for our love week events, the churches, um, is putting the money

forth to sort of support these events, the resources. So if it's, um, you know, revamping an elementary

school, our church is putting the money that's needed for that.

We're putting in the money that's needed for that for watch parties. What we've asked is,

is they're hosting love week events that either they're providing the resources or they're hosting

events that still serve the community, but may not have this, um, financial need in order to do it.

And so where the, the kind of interim, the thing is we're, we're working this out and figuring out

is how do we have people that are mobilized to be able to serve and help.

And then honestly, I, I kind of love it at the same time. Cause part of me is like,

man, we have to figure this out. But then I also love the scrappiness of really this authentic,

organic, um, creation of the funds to make these things happen. You know, I think sometimes we can

get a little bit spoiled where, you know, even at some of our events, we just know the church is

going to get the resources. Let me go pick them up and I'll go serve the people. There's something very

different that happens in these watch parties when they're actually saying, Hey, what do we want to do?

What organization do we want to serve? And if there's a need, you know, a lot of our watch parties

will put together their money to, to provide this need for their local community. And I don't know

how that can sustain forever, but I think there is a scrappiness to it right now where, um, it's coming

from this deep place in their heart, you know, where they really are. One of the values of our church

is that, um, we are contributors, not consumers. And I think that's what watch parties are building

is groups of people that aren't just, um, partaking of what's provided, but they're

learning and being taught how to really, um, contribute. And it's not contributing in

a way that, um, I don't know that that is, uh, resentful. I feel like I see them wanting to do

this thing. It's voluntary. It's not that it's under compulsion. You know, as the Bible says,

it's actually cause they want to be able to, to serve and contribute. And so it's pretty wild.

That's exciting. So like, tell them, tell me this, uh, come, tell me a couple of stories.

Cause you know, we're, we're talking about this. It comes from, it comes from their heart.

They're, uh, they're contributing. They're not, not consuming. Um, give, give me some success

success stories. Uh, give me some cities of where, man, we're seeing some, some awesome

things happening through these watch parties. Yeah. So I'll say, um, I wrote down a couple,

so I would remember. So I'll give you like a quick, a few of them. So for example, there's

one watch party that's in Ludington, Michigan, that is actually, um, on the coast of Lake Michigan,

this little beach town. And, uh, the leaders of the watch party own a coffee shop and they've

been leveraging this space that they have to minister to their community. And they have about

50 or 60 people that meet, meet week to week in this coffee shop. And, uh, the thing that makes

them incredible too, is, you know, I mean, we all know this, what happens on Sunday or in the actual

experience is just a piece and a portion of the discipleship that's happening. And I think what

I see them doing is actually carrying out that principle, not just talking about it, but they're

creating these opportunities for people to serve during the week. And so they may meet in the coffee shop,

but then they're creating these intentional, um, times for them to come together to serve local

organizations. And, uh, we just see, you know, the value there of having a space that's made available

to them. Um, and it feels great in the coffee shop, but I think it's challenging our mindsets of what it

looks like to gather these little, um, pockets together. Um, you know, people want the perfect

space and they'll look to renting these, these elaborate spaces. It's like, no, God may have already

given you the opportunity or the access to a space that's right in front of you. Um, so they're an

incredible watch party. Another would be, um, in Albuquerque, New Mexico, we have two

watch party leaders and it's interesting to see the sort of juxtaposition of their types of watch

parties. Cause one watch party is in a living room and they have about 40 or 50 people that are

worshiping each weekend. And they're probably one of the most breathtaking depictions of what

community looks like. Cause you know, community is such a buzzword now. I feel like we all, you know,

in the church we say it and, um, there's certain times where I see this image where I'm like,

man, that's, that's the thing that we're talking about. That's what this is. Cause they gather

together, they're cooking in their home. The guys are grilling out in the backyard and people are

bringing things. Um, they're really coming together to make this happen. It's not two people putting

on the watch party for the rest of the group. It's everyone coming together, contributing, bringing

something forward, um, to make, make it incredible. They have groups that are meeting during the week.

They're praying together. They're caring for one another. And, uh, it's just an incredible picture

of it. Now, if you go on the other side of Albuquerque, there's another watch party

that meets in a yoga studio and it's young people, um, mostly young females. Actually,

they meet in the yoga studio, then they do yoga immediately after the watch party. And it's just,

you see these two different styles and formats, um, that are both beneficial and both

impacting people. But that's a bit of the model of this micro church, you know, watch parties,

whatever you call it at each different church. That's the freedom in it. I think is that how do

we, you know, being from the campus, just a side note, it's hard for me sometimes because I want

to implement all the systems in the world and the structures and procedures, because from a numbers

perspective at the campuses, that was our, you know, that was the background or the system running

in the background always with watch parties. It's like, I fight that tendency. Cause I'm like,

there is something beautiful that's being formed when there's an openness and there's not so many

constraints to it. You see that with those two watch parties are very different, but they're reaching

people and they're bringing people together. And, um, I don't know. I think that's where that tendency

to want to control and constraint. I have to pull back to say, maybe I can't just reproduce a model.

Maybe we have to allow some of this to form and then we just kind of shape it and follow it as

it goes. That's good. So let me ask this Rachel. Sorry. Um, cut. I apologize for cutting you off.

Um, like, let's, let's unpack that a little bit because this is some, this intention that I felt

as we were doing this quality control, um, you know, organic structured, um, you know, obviously,

and you're, uh, Danny, you're a formal, former campus pastor. You're you, you've, you've been

associated broadcast. So you feel that tension of quality control and the structure of that

organizationally looking at, at this house party, the watch party kind of structure that you've had.

House party sounds even more fun than water party actually. Sorry. You could change that in six

months. Just give me credit. Yeah. Um, houseparty.com church will document it or something. Um,

so, but you, you, you've had to kind of back off right a little bit here. It's, it's too broad. It's

too wide. It's too far stretching. You're not able to really regulate it, like kind of unpack that a

little bit for us who has attention. Um, it's both for me and external tension, like as I see it and

helping our watch party leaders to shape it, but then it's also something internal as well. Um, and

for in this season, it's been a challenge for me to really be able to sort of breathe a little bit

and give God space to create, instead of me trying to stay out in the front, out in front of something,

always trying to control and create, um, defined borders. And I think that was something I've had to,

um, I've had to shift my mindset in that because yes, even being at our broadcast campus, you know,

many of the systems you put in place there, they're not always rigid, but they're there to care for

people. The heart of it is to care for people, but they're very clearly defined. And, um, with watch

parties, what I, what I tend to see happen, even internally, I think one of the first watch parties

I went to, um, they're actually incredible leaders. Uh, Jonathan and Vicki, they live in Charlottesville,

Virginia, and they had just started their watch party when I came to visit and, um, they meet in a

VFW, like a, a space with red velvety chairs and they have a projector with drape hanging. And if,

you know, the, the quality control part of me, when I walked in, I was like,

Oh no, I need to help them. I need, man, I need to do like an incredible teaching to share with them

about atmosphere. And, you know, they had a lot of chairs out. There were some empty chairs and there

was this internal part of me that I had to say, hang on, this is not that we're not just reproducing a

version of a campus. We're allowing something to be created. Um, that really is God's spirit sort

of breathed onto this new local expression of the church. And so how do I not get in the way of that,

um, and allow some things to be created, still have excellence, but there's such a fine line between,

um, with these watch parties, I think excellence and control, because we do want them to be unique

expressions of the leaders, but we do have to have a pretty consistent experience. Um,

so even in Virginia, they've grown from like three people to 25 people. They're one of my favorite

watch parties. They've had six salvations in their kids, um, with the kids curriculum that you're using.

I mean, they're just, they're killing it. And, uh, it's funny because when I talked to them,

they were feeling stressed or feeling, um, feeling bad about, oh, but we have, you know,

this projector, we bought it on Craigslist and they're kind of sharing with me.

And it was cool to be able to encourage them and remind them how beautiful some of those

imperfections are. And again, this is coming from someone who's very much the quality control

mindset in the past to say, Hey guys, the things that you see as weaknesses,

those are actually the thing that makes this feel unique and makes it feel organic and makes it feel

special. And so to answer your question, I don't know where I'm still working out. How do we allow

some space for people to create things? But it is true that, especially as we add more infrastructure to

watch parties, how do we know that the experience is going to be good? And I don't want to run on with

my response to you, but, um, in the past, we actually, uh, while we were figuring out what

are we going to do at these watch parties, you know, they're popping up. That's incredible.

We just, we're trying to figure out what level of support we could offer.

And so we didn't really have any, um, onboarding or constraints at first to what they would look like.

Now we're in this season where we're creating onboarding processes for the leaders. Um, we're

creating some just values and I don't want to say standards and guidelines and it sounds so sterile,

but we are creating some guidelines that will help people to define a little bit better.

Um, but every day I'm, I'm something comes across like my email or a conversation where

I do have to make that decision. Is this, is this something I want to run down and chase down to quote,

fix, or is this something I let kind of continue to develop, um, to see what God can really work

out through some of this space that we're creating. That's good. Some nuts and bolts questions about

that, uh, liabilities, as far as the church is concerned in terms of how much elevation is

responsible for. I'm sure a lot of churches are going to listen to this and be like, man, we want

that, but they're also concerned of, okay, but this is our brand a little bit too. And so

something happens at a watch party. Are we responsible? How does that work out with you guys?

Yeah, I hate, I'm hesitant to speak for, um, then I'm hesitant to say for sure, but in a lot of the

conversations we've had, and obviously this would vary church to church. Um, but for us,

this onboarding that we're doing to really, um, background check our leaders, um, that's a similar

process that, you know, many of our churches we do for e-groups or for community groups, you know,

you put people through a process because you are, um, allowing people to go to people's homes.

And so for us, that's the background process that we've put in place, um, to protect our church and

protect ourselves and really just to provide a good experience for the people that are going to

watch parties. And so obviously that would vary church to church, but I think there is a necessity

for a process to make sure that, you know, you could comfortably and confidently refer people

to these watch parties and know that they're going to have a good experience for sure.

Where's, where's kind of the place where you guys get the most pull for possible watch

party leaders? Is it through the online broadcast? Is it in service? Uh, and I know no ministry ever

feels like they're getting enough pub, but I imagine something like this, you're like, but man,

there's so much potential here. How can we let people know this thing exists?

Right. Right. I think, um, we've really put a lot of emphasis on sharing about watch parties

over the last, say four or five months. And so right now where we get most of our interest comes from,

um, when we feature something on our broadcast, um, like what we'll do if I'm going out to a watch

party, we may have a segment where I'm interviewing the watch party leader and we're broadcasting it out.

Um, or creative elements that, you know, maybe our video team creates a video about the watch party.

Um, those are a couple of big pieces that I think if you can allow people to feel what it feels like

to be a part of it, it's going to connect very differently than us just trying to always give a

call to action for people. And so we don't do a lot of pushes for watch party leaders, really.

Um, what we're, we do more of is celebrate and show them what's happening.

And so you have a lot of people that want to join a watch party that actually end up leading one,

you know, cause there's not one in their area. And they're like, well, man, I just want to

be a part of something like this. And so they may shift to want to lead one.

So I was going to ask about that too. How do you, how are you connecting folks? Like,

let's say I'm part of elevation and my job is taking me to Albuquerque and I'm like,

Hey, listen, I'm moving. Uh, do you then connect somebody to a watch party and say,

Hey, in that area, there's two watch parties.

Yep. So, um, and this is the next progression, I think where we'll grow, um, in our church,

as far as how campuses, um, are referring to watch parties. Also, I've had quite a few emails

and text messages over the last like two months of, yeah, someone moving from a campus to a

specific area. The watch party I was mentioning in Charlottesville, Virginia,

there was actually a volunteer at our uptown campus. She moved to Virginia and she was just

really feeling sad. Like she wasn't going to get to be a part of our church. And I got to share with

her that there was a watch party there and that now she's found just such a sense of community and

connection there. Um, basically she oversees helping look after the kids and with kids curriculum.

And, uh, it's been a while just to see her blossom in that community. And so that's an example of what it

looks like in a perfect world. But right now, because we're still building all the infrastructure,

this is still fairly new. Um, we're referring people where there are, you know, watch parties

and then the next steps will be us improving those processes where they can more easily access that

information versus us having to always make the connection.

All right. And I'm sorry, you just offered up a little tidbit and tangent that I got to walk

down a little bit. All right. So e-kids at watch parties.

Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, I wanted to ask that question. Why are you asking? No, no, go ahead. I'm just

kidding. No, like she said that earlier and I'm like, Oh, what's she doing with kids? Like, I want

to know that answer. Cause that right there. And when I talk with churches on a regular basis that want

to do this, the secret, the biggest problem that they have that they don't have a solution for is

what do we do with the kids? So elevation, what are you doing with the kids? How are you doing that at

a watch party level? Um, this is brand new and we are still working through this. So I'll let me

preface it with that. Um, it seems to be the theme of a lot of the stuff that I'm sharing. Um, I mean,

you can sense it and feel it. The season we're in really are, we're trying some things. We're seeing

how it works. We're seeing how it connects with people. Um, I will see the kids, um, how kids are

being cared for and experiencing God's word. I was just talking about this this week with our team.

It's probably one of the greatest objections for people is, you know, you may have someone who

really, you know, church is just a thing for them. They just go because, you know, it's part of their,

um, habit or maybe they were brought up that way. Then when you see them talk about what their kids

experience, you know, everything shifts and changes. And I think of even, you know, being at a

campus for so long, so many of my conversation with parents, it was a lot about the kids. Like,

well, I just want to make sure my kids are, you know, taking care, they're going to church and

I'm getting them in church. And so this has been a need that we've had for a long time with watch

parties that we are now, um, we have curriculum that we're sharing with our watch party leaders.

And, um, what they'll do is essentially teach, share it's video based. And there's some content

that they're sharing, um, for kids at the watch parties. Now it's super, um, elementary,

no pun intended, uh, right now because we're still getting it going and working out on the details.

But, um, it's an early stage of just having something, you know, some of them just like

putting the kids in a room with veggie tails, which shout out veggie tails. Okay. It's not a bad thing,

but that's right. I love it. Is it still around? Is it still? Absolutely. Yeah. As long,

as long as there's money to be made veggie tails, we'll be alive. It's fine.

You're right. Um, but how do we actually understand that they're, you know,

hearing God's word and experiencing scripture and all that. So, um, I said it lightly because it's

still, we're still working out what that actually looks like, but we do have curriculum that we're

sharing with our leaders for sure. No, but that's encouraging either way. Cause logistically,

I I'd even like to know, like so far, are they, are they utilizing? So some of that video based

curriculum, like on a TV and a playroom and an alternate room on an iPad, like, what does that look

like for some of the kids? Cause that's where once again, and I know that all of this is beta.

Like nobody's looking for this to be a polished answer, but just, man, this is great to hear

because few people are venturing into this particular space. Uh-huh. Um, yes. And yes,

it's anywhere. So we're, we're testing it right now. So we have a certain number of watch parties

that have been testing it and giving us feedback. Um, and then we're rolling it out to the remainder

of our, our watch parties that have gone through the process to become, um, like onboarded and

background checked and all that. So, um, yeah, it's both. So some are in a TV, some are in on iPads,

and they're sharing it. Um, really it's not, you said it like you're not looking for a polished

answer. Well, there's not one because, um, I don't think the results are polished right now,

as far as how it's being carried out with the execution of it. And so that's something that

as we continue to grow and scale, we'll work on, but for now it's at least having resources that we

can give to the watch party leaders for sure. The humility of, we don't have all the answers.

We're still trying to figure this out ourselves. Ask us again in six months. And we're probably

going to tell you something else because we're learning in this process. Like, like I, I, I,

I love that. Um, I was actually was talking with another church yesterday where, um, leadership

wanted like, like stats and all this stuff to prove, you know, their, their case towards something.

And it's like, what's that? We're all just trying to figure this out. Like, it's, it's not like

there's a proven concept here. And even, you know, looking at, at, at you and, uh, we've had a lot

of conversations with Saddleback, Jay Crandez, you know, and that church is doing, you know, rolling

out into a different implication of what watch party can be, but it's, it's a different spin on it.

Like I love to see churches, even, even the 800 person church, uh, first Capitol wrestling with

this and, and doing the, the watch parties with a different spin. I love seeing churches explore

this space. So go ahead.

We try not to get super excited about, about, um, we are focused on numbers and goals and metrics,

but I think, um, you know, Chad Zolo, I know, you know, Chad, our online campus pastor,

our leader of this area, he does an incredible job of keeping us focused on, um, really where we're

heading and how we keep evolving and reinventing ourselves, but then also the people in the stories,

just like we talked about, because there are numbers that we can look at and that we can track

and you can feel good and feel excited about it. But then it really does go back to, are we humble

enough to keep moving forward with the understanding that we don't know the answers and the answers will

probably change a few months from now. And how can we focus on the right values and principles?

And so I think that keeps us all really hyper-focused on, man, we have to stay ahead of this because

we're all, you know, the church, we're all figuring this thing out together. And again,

it is just shifting so rapidly. Uh, that's the thing I get stressed over. Sometimes it's like

keeping up with the changes of technology and of culture, all these things. And we have to try to

stay at least in step with it. And if we're lucky a couple steps ahead, but that's, that's awesome.

So, so Danielle, where are you going next year? Every week or every other week, it seems like

you're at some watch party, uh, doing for, for the broadcast. Where are you, where's your next stop?

So, um, over the next season, I think now we're, I'm trying to get real strategic about where we're

actually visiting and where we're going. Um, I mean, every, you know, you probably understand this

tension. You get excited about what's happening. And sometimes what I'll do is go run. I want to go

see you and experience this and visit and encourage these people. I think now what I'm trying to do is

get a little more strategic about, um, even creating and developing, um, interest that's there,

but then how do we deepen that interest? How do we make the connections for people? And so some of our

watch parties are formed because they're making the connections on their own, but I'm trying to

think through ways that we can actually help create those connections prior to the watch party,

you know, create a foundation where people can gather and begin to meet together. Um, so yeah,

and just figure out where we're going. I think, you know, I mentioned it, but it's just evolving and

changing. And, uh, even on our team, it's like understanding the, what watch parties look like today.

Um, it should probably look a little different, you know, a year from now, as we grow in our

understanding of it and our systems are created. Um, the system piece I think is the biggest thing

now. I know you're asking, where am I going? Like geographically, but I think

Either answer works. This is great. Vision's even better.

I went a little deep there, but, um, I think vision wise, it's hard because a lot of our watch

parties now there, the leaders are desiring these intricate systems and they've had exposure to

campuses. You know, we reproduce the things that we've seen. And so a lot of our leaders will say,

Hey, what is your VIP followup process for campuses? And we're going to implement this for VIPs. And,

um, I try to challenge them to say, hang on, how many VIPs did you have this past week? And they may

say, you know, one or two in their watch party. And I'm trying to challenge and encourage them

to don't create the system before you actually have the need. Like, what would you do in, right? What

would you do with the one person you would take them to coffee? You would help them make a connection

with someone in the watch party. And so I think, um, where we're really heading is figuring out,

how do you have systems that don't constrain the actual values you want to reproduce,

but how do we allow some flex and some space to be of what God is doing? Um, and I think that's the

thing we're trying to figure out. And then geographically I'll say, uh, all over. So some

of the areas that we're trying to grow a couple of the ones I mentioned, in fact, um, really are

speckled throughout the U S we have them all over the world, but right now my focus is in the U S

and figuring out how do we add the support and structure and then getting out to the watch parties

too. Let me ask, has there ever been a watch party and has there ever been a watch party where you

guys are looking at this and you're like, all right, man, this is the one we're going to start a

campus with this one. So there has been. So a couple of our locations actually were birthed out of watch

parties that had begun years ago. And so, um, our Roanoke location, as well as our Melbourne campus

really started from gathering people together to worship. And, uh, I'll say now, um, I'm, I was

smiling when you asked the question because, um, this is one of the big things I think we're working

through, um, in this season is figuring out, you know, again, being from the campus side, I was always

like, uh, before I came over to the team, I was all about the local church. I just want to see us launch

campuses everywhere. And I'll always be about the local church. And I think even internally, I was

still working on reconciling. What does it look like for us to have, um, this incredible online

ministry yet still be planting local churches. And, um, I mentioned it earlier and I'm sure you guys,

you've probably said the same thing. It could almost feel like they were opposing, but with understanding and

being able to see this sort of revelation of, they're not opposing and you can actually sell

out to both. You can have one feed the other one. And, uh, you know, even for the local campus

or the local church, um, and my husband's a campus pastor also, by the way. And so we still have

these discussions where, you know, even at his campus, you may not have people that attend every

single week. They may miss a couple of weeks. What's incredible though, is when they're out,

which is the normal human pattern at every church right now, right? Nobody's coming every week.

They can still engage in the ministry. They can still stay active, you know, in their giving

and their participation on the weeks that they're not present. And so I do think that, um, our online

ministry supports campuses in that way. Now, when we talk about expansion, that's where I think we've

only begun to explore this, even in our church of how do we collaborate online and campus to really

figure out what does it look like to expand? And so, yeah, my heart, even with watch parties,

um, I mean, watch parties is my focus. However, for our church, it would be incredible if some of

these watch parties led to locations down the road. And I think, um, the answer though is pretty

ambiguous of when is that point that it transitions or why, you know, um, but it has happened in our

church. And so now I think in this next season, again, I see us partnering better than we ever have

now. And, uh, this is because of, you know, our pastor, he really leads us pastor Steven leads us in

the mindset of we are working together. These are complimentary, um, parts of our ministry and, uh,

we're going where God is moving. And so we can clearly try to keep defining and constraining it,

but instead we're in the rhythm and the flow of where God is taking us. And so I think when it comes to

this idea of how can we contribute to expansion, um, from an online perspective, you know, we have

data information, we know where people are tuning in from, we have these watch parties. I think we

can contribute. It's just figuring out what is the tipping point. What does that look like? You know,

when it does become a campus, I don't know if I'm answering your question or not.

You have, and you've done it very well, but the fact that you guys were able to cite actual

examples of, of places that have made that jump. Um, and it's funny cause I've actually, you know,

being down here in Florida, I've had friends go and visit Melbourne. I didn't even know that it

started as a watch party. Um, and, and that's encouraging to know simply because there's so

many different pockets around the United States of folks who, number one, they want to connect.

They almost want like all the benefits of big church with small church, which is what I see

watch party as being, you know, like you get the grand communicator, you get a great

worship experience, but you also get the feeling of close community, right? There's that next step

beyond that, which some folks take and some folks just honestly, they're not meant to, and that's okay.

Right. Right. And I think, you know, the campus side, you know, as you talk about, um,

what that looks like to transition, I think again, it's such a tension because even as I talk about

it, there's a part of me that's like, what if what we're creating, you know, it's not that a

campus is the ideal scenario. How do we allow people to understand that, that what you were

just talking about that small, authentic community, you know, if that's what people want, how do we

get them to be content with where they are and what they have in the watch party? And I don't

know the answer to that. I think culturally watch parties still feel, feel new, but you know, we're,

we're really not innovating anything. You know, I try to remind myself of that sometimes when I'm like,

I have to figure this out. I'm like, man, these cell groups, whatever you want to call it,

have been around for so long, you know, in the book of acts talking about churches, gathering

and homes. And, uh, I don't know. I think that's the constant tension. The theme is how do we allow

people to not just look to the campus? That's the goal, but how do we get them to see and appreciate

this model as something that can be long lasting? Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's no magic in the bricks.

There's the bricks of your church building. It's, it doesn't have the power that that's not where

everything resides. So you guys breaking out of that, um, being example of utilizing micro locations to

start to, um, uh, get, get the word out to, to spread the gospel, to empower people. Uh, you said

it earlier in the broadcast, the same Holy spirit that's, that's, that's in Steven is, is in the people

who are leading your, uh, the micro locations and God can use them in the exact same way. So, um,

um, I mean, I just, I just applaud you guys and thank you guys for, um, for taking a chance getting

out there, but then also, man, just coming on this broadcast and sharing this Ray landing the plane

and any thoughts as we're, we're wrapping. Not, you know, it's funny, Danielle, as we've been talking

about church online over these last few weeks, and I just want to encourage you. I watched a lot

of toy story with my kids, you know, with the new ones coming out and, and you know, the whole line

of, Hey, I'm not flying. I'm falling with style to me just kind of encompasses everything that's

going on with elevation and you guys are doing such a phenomenal job. And so keep it up. I'm

hoping for a follow-up interview. I hope we can have you on again. Cause I love that for sure.

Thank you so much guys. Awesome. Danny, anything else? Closing thoughts as we're wrapping here.

Hey, I just, uh, I'm, I'm humbled and, uh, thankful to be able to, to contribute to this

conversation because I think there's so many churches that, you know, we're figuring this

out together and there's such power in unity, um, when we're discovering it alongside one another.

And so thank you for allowing me just to contribute to that. So grateful for it.

Awesome. Thanks, Danny, for joining us, uh, for Danny, for Ray, uh, my name is Jeff. Oh,

by the way, before I break, Danny, where can we find you on social media?

Um, so my Instagram handle is Danny dot Hicks. Um, and then on Facebook under Danielle Hicks as well.

And that's Danny D-A-N-N-I. That's right. That H-I-C-K-S. Awesome. So for Danny, for Ray,

my name is Jeff with the church digital. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next time. Thanks, everybody.

Thank you.