BETA12: Clubhouse and the Church

Hey, we're going to get you to that podcast in one second, but before we get there, I,

Jeff Reed, the Church Digital, Stadia Church Planning, I wanted to have a conversation with

you, churches that are out there. One of the greatest things I arguably think that I've done

in my life, other than married and kids, okay, that aside, one of the greatest ministry things

I've ever done is this idea of the fidgetal learning communities that we are offering

through Stadia Church Planning. We want to help you. We want to help your church learn to thrive,

grow, and multiply fidgetally, physically, as well as digitally. We've seen about 200 churches go

through this already, and it's been a phenomenal result of it. Culture is changing within these

churches. They're understanding what it is to thrive. They're understanding how to grow people,

how to grow their church, even in the midst of this COVID, not COVID, wherever we are in the season,

and they're even starting to understand what it means to multiply in fidgetal space. There's no secret

sauce to doing a digital strategy. There's no secret sauce to doing a fidgetal strategy. There's no

secret sauce to making your church thrive, grow, and multiply. It takes work. I'm not going to lie,

but through the framework, through the questions, through the learning communities,

we connect you with churches. We give you some content. We coach you along the way to help you

make the decisions that you need to make so that your church's strategy can thrive, grow, and multiply

your church along the way. This is a great opportunity for your church. We would love to have you be a part

of it. For more information, check out stadiachurchplanning.org slash fidgetal,

stadiachurchplanning.org slash fidgetal, P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L. All right. Hey, that's it. We're going to get you back

to that episode right now. All right. Hey, we got the beta show, episode 12, uh, here with the church

digital podcast. Once again, powered by stadia church planting. We're going to talk about stadia, uh,

along the way here in a little bit, but really excited about some things. We've got a great show

coming up with you here. We're going to talk about clubhouse. It's this new platform. Maybe it's

people have calling it like the early Twitter, uh, coming on and some really exciting things. I've

been kicking the tires and we're bringing in somebody who's an expert, much more familiar, uh, with this

platform here, uh, in a little bit, but wanted to haul out a couple of things here. First off here with

the beta show, we are answering your questions, your ministry questions. If you've got questions,

we want to hear them, text them to us at four, eight, four, three, two, four, eight, seven,

two, four, uh, four, three, two, four, eight, seven, two, four ministry questions. We'll address

them on a future episode here with the beta show. And one thing I did want to plug stadia church

planting. Hey, we are doing a digital learning communities. 2021 does not have to suck. 2020 was

pretty rough, right? 2021. We can turn the corner here. Churches like yours can learn how to thrive,

grow and multiply not only in physical space, but in digital space as well. Learn how physical and

digital can work together to achieve your church's mission and vision. That's the goal.

stadiachurchplanning.org slash digital learning communities are starting. We, we, we had a bunch

start already in January. We've got more ramping up here in February. So jump in there with that.

So, Hey, here with the beta show, of course, we're bringing in Ray DeArmas, co-host, uh, of the beta

show, church, digital podcast, and just general all around nice guy, digital pastor, Christ fellowship,

Miami. Great to have him here. Ray, any, any, you got five seconds, words of wisdom. Go.

I'm so glad that I'm in clubhouse. Just glad to be in. It's so exclusive, but it's exciting. And

everybody loves talking about it. Can't wait to talk more about it here.

That was more than five seconds, but we'll, we'll call it a win. Hey, and for the third here,

we are bringing in a DJ Chong into the conversation. Now, DJ, uh, is one of these pioneers of online

ministry. Like I think I first met him a decade ago when he was working with leadership network. We

were over in Dallas, uh, doing a, a multi-site thing, but DJ has kind of been like the, the lurker of

online ministry, kind of floating in the background, observing, helping where possible, spurring some

of those innovations on. You may not know his name, but I promise you, you've seen the fruit of his

ministry, the fruit of his influence across churches, mega giga churches across this country. So DJ,

honestly, it is an honor to have you here on the beta show, kicking some tires here, talking about,

uh, clubhouse. So, Hey, maybe even just to open it up. What, what thoughts do you have? Tell us,

tell us something about you that nobody else knows. Let's put you on the spot right here.

Oh man. What's deepest, darkest secret out there, but, um, I'm honored to be here. Thank you for

inviting me. And one of the amazing rooms on clubhouse along that line, there's a room called the

vulnerability room where people do share their deepest, darkest secret and people do, and tears

are wept and people's hearts are moved. And it's like a weekly show, uh, hosted by some model out

in Florida who has dark secrets. So it can be a very powerful, vulnerable place very rapidly with a

room of strangers. Wow. Wow. So let's kick off a conversation about clubhouse and the church right

there off, off of that. That was, I don't, I don't know that I'm ready. I don't know that I'm man

enough to walk, walk into that room, but really this clubhouse is super exclusive. It's hard to get

into. What is this thing actually doing? Is it worthwhile? Should our churches really be interested

in this type of thing? What makes it different from zoom or any of the other kind of communication

platforms? These are the questions that we're getting. And so if you've got questions, go ahead

and throw them in the, in the, in the, um, you know, the chat, whatever, uh, so that we can engage

and we'll put them up. Hey, Brad Henson here is saying, what's up fellas. Uh, Brad was one of

these guys I think that we saw recently in, in a, uh, a clubhouse, but let's start to unpack here

a little bit what clubhouse is and should the church be involved in it? So DJ you're, you're

the expert in context of, of, of clubhouse Ray and I've just kind of maybe toyed with it a little

bit. Tell us here. What, what is clubhouse put a definition on this for us? Yeah. Clubhouse is a

new iOS only app invite only. That's a drop in audio chat. So that's the way they tagline it. And

it has been a phenomenal app that just launched last April invite only starting with BIPOC, the, um,

black indigenous people of color. And so it's got an ethos of, uh, creatives and, um, African

American and tech and music and sports. That's the ethos in terms of the gravity and the momentum

of the rooms that have been cultivated there. And along with that, those that would be of

interest to church leaders like ourselves is the black church has found a place and a voice

to connect with their community online. And it's really taken off, um, to the degree, give

you a quick number. I know there's some numbers, people out there, 2 million active users weekly.

Wow.

Is the latest, uh, metric, uh, their user base is somewhere between three to 5 million now.

And the average duration of users is 90 minutes, not 90 seconds, 90 minutes. So there is long, heavy

engagement for people connecting with each other through voice. And I'll quote, um, Jeremy Aoyang,

who's one of the researchers up in Silicon Valley. And he describes this as a leading social,

the frontier of social media is audio chat because it's the Goldilocks phenomenon. It's,

it's, it's, it's, it's in that perfect place between, uh, Texas too little and videos too much,

but audio gives you that human connection while we're still isolated, gives you that social space

and people are using it in all kinds of creative ways.

That's amazing. DJ, um, talk, talk a little bit more about that because this,

it does allow for a little bit more vulnerability. It takes you a little bit more out of the anonymity

of just talking, like just tweeting at somebody or whatever else. But it also gives kind of the

hint that you're more connected with some of these like higher level individuals. Like I see people

like Elon Musk on here or different things. And so people feel like, Oh, this is because it feels

exclusive. And because I've got this audio access now it's all, it almost gives the illusion. Like

I'm in a room talking to him. Well, um, you are the, uh, the, the dynamic of a room on clubhouse

is that it equalizes, democratizes everyone's voice. You still do have a mechanism in terms of who's on

on stage and who can speak versus who's in the audience. So it's not a shouting match.

Usually the moderators are pretty good at managing the room dynamic and you can run it just like, uh,

you do here on beta show where you have three people talk on stage and then you open up for Q and A

the last half of the time. It's certainly a legitimate way to use clubhouse, but it's audio only.

So what that allows people to do is they don't have to look at the screen. They can actually be

multitasking and folding the laundry while they listen in. And so that, uh, adds more engagement

and more opportunity people engage. And then there's people that open smaller rooms where everybody gets

to chat and share their story for 15 and 30 minutes each. And people wait in line for hours.

I've seen rooms go for 24 hours and people are just really quote unquote addicted to this thing because

it's so engaging in a different way. And, um, there's people that might use it like a conference

call. Remember that technology where people would just dial in by phone. But I think what's magical

about this one is just takes two taps to get into a call instead of dialing 20 digits. And so,

um, churches are, uh, starting to use it for Bible study and prayer groups. And that's a very,

uh, simple, easy to understand way of how we can connect on a technology that's pretty easy to use

if you're on iPhone. Yeah. And that that's that that's interesting. iPhone have, have, have they

said anything about Android? Is this just like, Hey, the Google platform crowd? Like why, why has it

not ported over? Is that even on the roadmap? Does anybody know? It is on the roadmap. It's coming in

Q one. So that gives them until the end of March before they roll out or before they start rolling

some invites and beta to Android. It's a entirely different thing to develop on iOS and Android. So

it's, um, just in terms of work, you need to start with one before you can get to two.

Hmm. Awesome. Hey, so we, we did this, uh, like at least I did this on Monday. I started a,

I started a room. Um, I, I, this is my first time creating a room and just, this is my experience.

So I opened it up. Hey, let's talk about digital church, Q and a, something like that.

Created the room in the platform, just had my phone on, put my AirPods to the phone.

I was working at my desk and, and like nobody came in the room. Uh, and so that was kind of weird,

maybe like 15, 20 minutes. Nobody was coming around. I didn't know what to expect. Um, and so I put

out on some social media channels and some groups, Hey, I'm testing out clubhouse. I'm hanging out here

in the room. If anybody wants to come over, you know, come over, maybe posted three, four or five

different things. Um, I think DJ, actually, I think you were probably the first person to come on,

uh, into the room. And so you and I were chit chatting for like a minute until two or three other

people came along and then two or three others. And, and I want to drop names, but I'm looking at the

people in here and I'm like, okay, I know that person. I know that person. I know who that person

is. I've never actually like met that person before. Um, and then, so we're all talking and,

and as we're talking, um, because it was, we were, we were chit chatting. I didn't want to be like,

yo, DJ and I are talking and the rest of you are like in the audience. So I'm, I'm automatically

clearing anybody who comes in the room to the place where they can speak. Cause I was trying to create

more of a dialogue, less of kind of like an onstage, um, interview. And, uh, and so there was one guy

I didn't really know. And so I didn't bring them up to that level. Uh, his bio wasn't like really

strong Christian and, but he had like 1900 followers in, in the platform, like a huge amount

of followers. And so somebody made a comment, oh, Hey, bring, bring this guy up into the platform.

So he can share too. So I bring that guy up, uh, so that he is on the platform where he can speak

like the rest of us. And as God is my witness, the room blew up five seconds later. Um, who,

you know, this, this individual is a well-known pastor is, is very respectable in the African

American community. All of a sudden there's 50, 60, 70 people in this room. Listen, and this guy's

not talking, but it was like, you could see the, you literally could see the algorithm work

to the second. As soon as I brought this guy in, the room went viral. And now there's all of these

people that are wanting to dialogue through it. And so now, um, um, it's, I found myself realizing,

Hey, I can't like stage these guys anymore. Like I've got so many people in here. We are going to

have to turn this into something. And, uh, the funny thing was I had to leave. Like I was on for an

hour and then my time was up. I had something else. So I handed it off to, uh, somebody else who's in

the room who half an hour later, handed it over to somebody else. That room went two hours plus,

uh, what started off as just a mere experiment, 50, 60 people throughout the entire time. And what I

thought, man, that's, that's obscure. Like, that's really cool to see that happen, but that doesn't

happen all the time. As I talk more and more with like people in clubhouse, it's yeah, that's,

that's typical. The two hour, the passing the baton, the, the, just all of that. And that's,

that's so cool to see DJ. Does that line up with some of your experience?

Yeah. Uh, that's, that's, that's, that's a common experience, but there's a whole range

of experiences. So this past Sunday, Elon Musk, uh, had a pre announced clubhouse room, uh,

which overflowed two or three or four times over because each room only lasts 5,000 people.

So they had overflow rooms with varying degrees of audio fidelity because they're basically just

taking the iPhone and using another iPhone to broadcast into these overflows. And then YouTube

had a couple thousand people too. So you can have a, um, well-known person that draws thousands of

people and then they can just do a Q and a, they asked some silly questions and ask some serious

questions. And it just adds that level of intimacy. Hey, you're talking, you're listening to some people

talk with Elon Musk and you can submit your questions. And so that accessibility and that

immediacy makes it, uh, makes, bring that proximity even closer than just a Q and a session on a live

stream. Live session gives you a similar dynamic, but, um, the audio only portion gives you that, uh,

feeling of more closeness, I think is the main difference. Plus it's audio. So, um, it's more

accessible while you're doing other things than just the live stream. Um, and then there's small

rooms that are under five people and there's many closed rooms. So, uh, I don't see those as much,

but they're out there. And right now it's an open platform. People can make it a big deal. Uh, I think

there was a musical that they did liking a couple months back. And so there's audio experiences that

the pioneers are actually, uh, really creating on clubhouse to, uh, wait, somebody created a

lighting experience in clubhouse. Yes. And there's also one called a cotton club where there's a dress

code and they have a vibe and it had a open mic and something else. And so there's all kinds of audio

experiences that are interesting cultivated and coming up because this is like a blank slate

and people are bringing their creativity and really using it to connect people to people.

Hey, I, I, I'm, I'm actually intrigued. Uh, I want to experience like the, the, the lion King,

I guess where you're recording audio or playing back the, like, is it multiple iPhones, multiple people

singing? Cause I mean, just tape playing a tape would be too easy. Like they're, they're,

it has to be ingenuity. That's, that's, I wasn't there. I wasn't there. And the other thing about

clubhouse is not recorded. So the FOMO really triggers a lot of attentiveness. Hey, I want to

get in on something. Yeah. A part of me was, I actually, when I was on the platform, even with

what we do here at the beta show, I like, this is what I wanted the beta show to be. Like we've got

people like Brad who make comments through there and, and, and, and the, the views on this are

awesome at, you know, and I can see the number of people are watching this live right now, but I've

got eyes that are watching the screen that are hearing this conversation, but I'm more interested

in saying, Hey, what questions do you have? Like, I don't want to be the guy being the expert here in

order. I want to bring in others into the conversation. I want to address the, I want to hear from churches.

I want to hear from people that are on the front lines. And to me, this is the first time that I've

really felt like a platform was able to deliver that. Yeah. There's, there's a lot of people don't

have access. They haven't gotten those invites. They don't have access to the platform yet, but

potentially they're within reach and you can get, you know, a, a room together at a certain time and

let there be, be dialogue. And, and because it's audio only, um, it's, it's more passive listening

where I can engage at certain times, or I can be working and do other things without feeling the

pressure of staring at that webcam for the entire time. And it just, it felt very at home kind of

being in that environment, listening to people kind of facilitating some conversations and helping

people through that scenario. I, I just, I love the feel of it. Yeah. So let's, um, if, if it's kind of, we can

move a bit towards how churches can be using this. And so I know as we've all endured and are persevering

through the COVID pandemic and quarantine, that many churches are using Zoom to foster Bible study, small group

worship experiences, and have some even fellowship time and playing games. And so if you want to, uh,

just begin bringing together a small group that wants to experiment and try new ways of online

fellowship, you can substitute and use a Zoom room with the audio portion. So, uh, what I mean by that

is, um, and, and you've had enough Zoom rooms that you realized that maybe only a third of the people

are comfortable turning on their camera, but two thirds of the people would prefer to stay off camera.

And so imagine a Zoom room, everybody's camera, and then you direct it by audio. So you, as the moderator,

at least set the example and have everybody be audio and create a pseudo clubhouse experience that's available

to all. So they don't have to have iOS. They do need a, um, a computer that's connected internet and use

Zoom. And create that audio experience and cue people up on, Hey, we're going to, um, take some questions, uh,

who's first, and you can call on names and people can go off and on mute. So you can stimulate a clubhouse

experience now in preparation of how you might use clubhouse or how you might zoom, use zoom differently.

Now, one of the points of, um, that one of the historical points that's informed me is, uh, talking

with one of the vendors that does a free conference call service, uh, back, back in the day when we were

phone only. Um, so this decade, well over a decade ago that one of the biggest customers on these

conference call lines were churches. Huh? So churches have been pioneers in the past using conference call

technology to convene people between Sundays, between weekends to do Bible studies and prayers

and, um, fellowship. And so there's no reason that in the digital world where we have more platforms and

more accessibility that we could, uh, churches could also do that, whether it's on zoom or on clubhouse.

Really interesting. I, I've, I've, I've not experienced that church is doing that, but you,

you're, you're pulling data, uh, further from me. So, Hey, we got Brad Henson chiming in again,

as a pastor in rural areas where video quality is often bad due to bandwidth limitations.

The idea of audio only is, is exciting. And Ray, like I Ray, help me here. Um, there was a church

we had a conversation with in the past couple of weeks. Um, and I don't remember who it was,

but they made the comment that they had hundreds of people that would show up for a seven 30 prayer

meeting every day. Right. Do you remember who that was? No, I can't for the life of me. I can't

remember who that was, but this kind of thing obviously sets up tremendous potential for that,

for that kind of meeting to continue to occur, especially since, you know, it's prayer,

it's all audio. And it's funny because, you know, Brad, Brad brought up a good point that I remember

just a lot of seminary students talking through even 10 years ago, like as church online was kind

of a fledgling thing where they talked about reaching out to people in different areas where

internet isn't readily available, but they've got a lot of shut-ins at home that they can't get to the

building either. Obviously COVID opened up all of our eyes to a lot of this stuff. And so DJ,

continue to talk through just some of the different ways that churches could leverage

this kind of thing, you know, to reach out to some of those folks who can't, even as we reopen,

can't get to a building.

Yeah. The telephone is still much more accessible to internet.

And even as many of us are using zoom, we see that well-known people don't have the best internet

sometimes. It's standard. And I had internet outage just last week. And so we don't have that

reliability with internet the way we have with phones. And so phones are still the backbone that we might've

missed the opportunity to pay. Let's use the telephone in some ways as a backup to people,

because that is still the, I think the primary role that church can offer to serve their people and

their community is that social and spiritual aspect. And so, um, using clubhouse, um, using zoom,

uh, using, well, see the thing is using social media. That's I'll contrast it this way. Using

social media is asynchronous, meaning it's not real time.

And so you get these little sound bites and that might be good for a flash in the pan, a little

inspiration, but static. Whereas if you use zoom and you use something like clubhouse, it's real time

interaction. And that real time interaction brings intimacy, engagement and, uh, mutual edification

and all the good things that come out of that. And so, um, that that's the opportunity and you create

space for it, uh, just going from the known to the unknown. So the known, uh, as I've mentioned, uh,

Bible study, uh, Q and a, uh, small groups, uh, support groups, uh, prayer times. Those would be

examples of, okay, here's another platform that may be easier to use with some of your people.

Let's, uh, adapt those onto this platform and increase the engagement, uh, on the frontier.

Uh, clubhouse is such an open, uh, space with, like I said earlier, 2 million active users

tremendous opportunity for outreach. Answer the questions that people have and the topics they

want to talk about. And as they get to know you, they'll see that you have more in, uh, how you're

living life than the average person that doesn't have Christ. And so the frontier is very much outreach

as we all are, uh, stuck at home, but this opens a door for us to be connecting with people outside

of the church. Sure. The potential for the Q and a portion to me is just one of the most amazing things.

Um, I remember during, uh, during the summer of 2020, when everything was going on with racial

injustice in our country and all the different things, friends of mine at transformation church

in the Carolinas, uh, Derwin Gray, the pastor there led a conversation with the chief of police in his

area, uh, and actually created a great interaction. But if they would have done that, but now you're,

you create potential for a possible Q and a with people to then address either of them, like as the

pastor or, Hey, as the lead, you know, chief of police in our area, like Howard, how do you see

things? That to me is just content. That's just too irresistible that even somebody who's not a

Christian would want to engage in. They'd want to dive in. Uh, what are, what are other opportunities

that people might want to engage in this kind of thing, DJ, that pass might be a little bit scary

for pastors. Cause it's like, well, live Q and a, but the potential outweighs the risk, right?

The reward outweighs the risk. Well, okay. If you want to push it out, uh, when you lose control of

content, but you facilitate healthy conversation that that's kind of the next step beyond Q and a

what I mean by that is there's many clubhouse rooms where people share their own stories and share their

own perspectives. It's a very human thing to do, but all of us carry a story. And, uh, for, uh,

those of us who are in Christ, that story has been intercepted by Christ and he's transforming it,

redeeming it in powerful ways. Uh, but yet when you're in a room of people, both Christians and

non-Christians, and they're sharing each other's stories, you grow in your empathy and understanding

and you expand your understanding of God and the world and God will open doors for you to grow

relationships that can turn into, uh, spiritual conversations as well as coming to Christ.

It's a very non-threatening way for people to experience a conversation with Christians

instead of going to church or being set up where they have to confront or be confronted by

Christian content or apologetics. Hey, let me get to know you first and know your story and vice versa

and then see what happens on that next conversation. I think that's the, um,

new apologetics for the 21st century. If you can say it that way, it's got to be more conversational

rather than presentational. And I would love to see more church leaders just hanging out on

reddit on clubhouse and connect with people as a person rather than as an authority figure.

That would be the frontier because that's what those platforms are designed to do. It's an equalized, um,

playing field. And so to meet them where they are, to be the missionary and to be the light in that space,

we're going to shine because Christ is in us. And so there's no fear for us to go,

uh, with the love of Christ into these new spaces.

Yeah, it's better. I mean, we, we talk about this a lot with better to ask questions than make

statements. Uh, Dave Adamson, we need to use more question marks than periods. Uh,

so kind of building on that to, to use this platform to engage with people, to build those relationships.

It's interesting. Brad Henson chiming in once again, it could be relational apologetics as you discuss

reasons why people doubt their faith. I mean, honestly, Ray, and, and you're from, from a, uh,

you know, a mega multi-site environment, uh, very kind of centralized in, in, in leadership for me,

this is the platform of the campus pastor. Uh, this is where man create rooms like these you're,

you're not preaching. Um, but you're trying to figure out ways to connect with people.

I see this as an opportunity to connect with people like that, to build those relationships.

Uh, you know, we, we jokingly, I said in social media this week, Hey, we can't be,

you're not campus pastors anymore. It's time to be a community pastor.

Let's go to of, and, and, and I think this is an opportunity to take that step towards the people

in a digital format and start to really engage with and engage. Isn't, isn't, let me preach this

40 minute sermon on the platform engages. Let me ask a couple of questions and listen as people talk

in through that relationship building, start to get to the point of, of sharing and pointing towards

Christ. So I, I just, there's so much I love with this platform and I'm, I'm usually the guy that

geeks out on, on new technology, but this one, this is really, really has potential, I think,

to help churches engage in, in new ways. So, uh, what else are we missing here? We want to,

want to wrap up, but, uh, as, as we're landing the plane, um, DJ closing thoughts, uh, on,

on the platform wins opportunities. What, what else should we be considering?

Yeah. Uh, right now it's just huge opportunities. We're, we're just on the brink of discovering what

the wins are, but it's going to take time for us to get there. And it's going to take an investment of

time, uh, for church leaders to be in those spaces with average people, uh, and not come as an

authority figure and not put on their collar, but show our humanity. And I think, um, for church leaders,

that's probably going to be the first hardest question. How much time is this going to take?

And so if the average person on clubhouse, 2 million active users, average time is 90 minutes.

Uh, if you're able to commit an hour weekly to visiting some clubhouse rooms and you don't have to do it

at random pick, pick the ones that have a lot of people and people that you know, and just begin

getting into the practice of conversation. Uh, that's going to be the growth path for us to

become better ministers that shine for Jesus in the clubhouse environment. Yeah.

Ray, what are you thinking as we're landing the plane here?

Wow. There's, you know, when we talk about this technology and there's just so much potential

to connect, there's so much potential for people to feel like they're part of something and for people

to feel like they have a voice, which I think is one of the more significant parts of social media,

right? Like the fact that you feel like you have more access to people and especially right now,

greater than ever with clubhouse, you, you really do, you know, kind of like what DJ alluded to earlier,

like, Hey, we were in the room with Elon Musk. Like you did have an opportunity to kind of speak and be

heard and to have that kind of thing, you know, work out for you, which is wonderful. And how much more

do we need that in church in 2020? Whereas more and more, you know, like DJ, you said it perfectly

about pastors need to step back from being authority figures and need to be more and more community driven.

Um, whereas a lot of people kind of shied away and felt like, man, that's the guy on the stage.

You know, I, I need somebody to connect with a little bit more. Now they have more and more of

a capability of doing that. And, and I actually think that a lot of pastors want to be able to

connect with people. They just don't know what's the right way for, for all of this to happen.

And so clubhouse could help facilitate the right kind of conversations. If, if pastors will be

brave enough to, to dive right into it, right. To, to embrace the, Hey, we don't know where this is

going to go, but we're going to take a shot and we're going to go out there and we're going to try

and reach people for Jesus. Or even we're going to try and connect with some of our own people who

are on the platform. There's just a lot of potential for this and for, for real engaging,

real-time conversation, which is awesome. Yeah. Amen. Well, well said there. Hey, um,

power church, uh, the power is no longer in organizations and we can have the Reddit

conversation later, but for me, the undergirding of that is it's not in these organizations. It's not

in the corporations. The power is now in, in individuals. And when I look at, at clubhouse,

I see the opportunity to empower individuals to have conversations in environment where people will

listen. Uh, and, and so even as we talk about disciple making and what that looks like,

multiplication and context of your church, uh, my opinion, uh, this platform, a clubhouse is,

is ripe for those types of relationships and that type of interaction. So church, equip your people

to go and get involved on platforms like this. And I'll, I'll tell you what I opened up the platform

this morning and, uh, the nice people at clubhouse gave me four more invites than I had yesterday.

So I will give away three invites to three people into clubhouse. Uh, you know, how to reach me,

uh, social media, whatever, uh, four, eight, four, three, two, four, eight, seven, two, four. You can

text me directly the first three people to kind of bump me. I will connect you into clubhouse and give

you access beyond that. Sorry. Um, there, there's another way of hopefully coming soon and, or maybe Ray,

Ray will give you Ray. I'm not putting Ray in the spot. We'll get it.

I'll throw my invite out there. Yeah, sure. Uh, you know, our, my invite sponsored by

Stadia church planning. I want to thank you Stadia for this wonderful clubhouse invite. So there you

go. Always. Thank you very much to the Stadia people. So we're, we're going to wrap right here,

uh, for Ray, for DJ. This is Jeff with the church digital and Stadia church planting, my family.

Thanks for joining us here on the beta show and we'll see, uh, next time. Y'all have a good day.