BETA34: Questioning a Social Media Church

all right hey welcome to the beta show i'm jeff with the the church digital podcast as always

powered by stadia church planting we're going to be diving into a little bit here

uh with stadia in this broadcast but here with the beta show uh we uh want to answer your digital

ministry questions uh live here on the show so as you have questions text them in 484-324-8724

that's if you speak telephone alphabet it's number four of the church uh and uh we're here

to answer your digital ministry questions on future episodes of the beta show church digital

podcast just all sorts of fun stuff that we do around here uh with the beta show if you're

listening to this on demand we do do this live every thursday noon eastern you can check it out

at facebook the church digital or youtube.com the church digital either way is a great place to engage

live and if you are live if you're out there right now go ahead and throw your questions and

comments on whatever platform you're watching and we'll we'll engage either live and in the show i'll

we'll be i'll be talking about it i always have intended to say we'll be talking about it when it's

me at least here in front of the camera so we'll be talking about it here uh in the show or maybe even

afterwards and if you're listening um on on a podcast and it's kind of hard to type into a podcast i

totally get that which is why we love youtube so much go hang out with youtube but if you're on a

podcast text those questions in 484-324-8724 next week uh and i it took everything within me

not to just ditch the entire plan and do this like right now what can the church learn from disney

plus mcu and executive producer kevin feige uh it was about 3 a.m up 4 a.m i'm not gonna lie i had

watched loki for the third time in 24 hours the finale it was incredible it's great good stuff

couldn't sleep last night and i had this idea i was like ooh totally want to talk about that but

that would be spoiler ridden so i'm not going to do it this week next thursday what can the church

learn from kevin feige some really really interesting stuff coming forward in that one

but here let's let's talk about where we're going to be here for this episode social media

uh church this is the topic a church that fully functions that fully works in social media i did

i did a talk on this at social media church conference literally like i think it ran monday

so it's still out there go to social media dot church the full talk still may be available nil smith

is over there and so uh who's been on the podcast several times and so if you want to harass nils hey

nils jeff is doing a little snippet of this much larger talk on being a social media church how can

he watch how can people watch the full talk that jeff did because jeff really wants everybody to see

that i have no idea if he's making it on demand or not but i'm just going to give you a little piece

of it here uh with uh beta 34 here who needs a building questioning a social media church and

it's interesting just even yesterday i put a post out on my personal social media feed uh talking

about hey i'm doing this live broadcast who needs a building questioning uh the ecclesiology of a social

media church uh and and there there was a little i don't call it a war but a little disagreement on my

social media on my personal social media channel between a pastor friend of mine who i probably

haven't seen in 20 years as well as uh a friend of mine that i've been working with in digital church

stuff who i've never met in physical space it's all been digital as a matter of fact he's in africa

so a personal friend of mine 20 years ago in africa it reads this comment about our personal friend of

mine 20 years ago reads this comment about questioning a social media church and and he says things like

jeff you can't do church on social media it's not the same uh and so and that was that's the mindset

now it's it's an older pastor friend the guy was was it was a uh i was i mentored me in in many

stretches and so love the influence and and love this pastor friend but he's not viewing community in

in the same context at that my friend who's uh in africa who is connected through me connected with

others in digital community they have completely different views and they started like getting

into this little slap fight on my facebook channel it was really kind of funny uh to to watch just kind

of afar to see how it was was was going to boil out here's what i would say facebook church or any digital

church for that matter anything that we're doing in digital space is not for everyone uh my pastor

friend 20 years ago uh that i that he was a a mentor in my life um yeah you know what digital church is

probably not for you you're not connecting into that and and what's what's hard when we're talking

about digital church and social media church a lot of the decision makers are of that age that aren't

being influenced by digital community and aren't really understanding how digital community works

and so it's not that uncommon to hear negative coming from leaders because they don't even

understand really the context of what digital community is all they know is it's not the same

and and and the frustrating part of that conversation is at this point even pre-covid 25 of americans are

attending some representation of a physical church the number had dropped all the way down to 25 this is

a pre-covid stat physical church it's safe to say evidently isn't for everyone either and so maybe

while we're trying to do the same thing and get back to what was which was only effective

for one out of four americans i'm not even talking global scale here oh my gosh maybe it is time to

do something different to try to reach that other percentage so let's do this let's let's dig in here

um acts 2 you know what i was gonna i was supposed to prep this early you're gonna see me kind of fly here

because i want to read acts 2 specifically 42 47 and i was supposed to get that up on my bible app in

advance and did not so this is a sword drill back from like the old school elementary how quick can

jeff get to acts 2 42 and 47 via his iphone app all right found it done here we go here's the scripture

i want to read to you guys uh they devoted themselves to the apostles teaching in the fellowship to the

breaking of bread into prayer everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed

by the apostles all the believers were together and had everything in common they sold property and

possessions to give to anyone who had need every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts

they broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad sincere hearts praising god and enjoying

the favor of all the people and the lord added to the number daily those who were being saved so the

question that i'm asking here is we've read through just here acts 2 42 to 47 it's basically the basic

description of what a church is the first church acts church the beginning of the church the building of the

church this is really the the first time that there's a synopsis for what the church functions or what we

would say the ecclesiology of a church is they're using phrases here like baptism like prayer like making

disciples love worship praise lord supper generous they're being giving there's apostles they're teaching of

the word they're growing leaders there's devotion there's repenting of sins so according to the

biblical standard when we look at what the church is out of acts two we would turn around and say okay

we need to do all those in the physical space and to some level some things are better than others

the physical church is doing these things but remember

the physical church effectively today is only reaching 25 percent of americans so therefore

maybe it's time to do something different which is why i'm asking questions like what would it look like

to do all of this baptism prayer making disciples love worship praise communion generous giving apostles

teaching teaching of the word growing leaders devotion repenting of sins what would it look like to do

that on facebook on twitch what would it look like to do that well let's keep this in social media

what would it look like to do that in social media how are we supposed to do all of these things

digitally now if if i was once where you were that guy's crazy you know maybe i was in college when

i was crazy but i've been crazy the majority of my life truth be told and even the crazy guy that's me

okay look i'm i'm even understanding looking at this you're probably asking some questions and and

is this possible how does this work how would we do that let's even start here question number one

this is these are my questions as i'm trying to figure out how to do a digital ecclesiology these

are the things that i'm stubbing my toe on saying how do we get past this how do we baptize people on

social media okay so like i can totally imagine streaming a baptism you know and i myself i've seen baptisms

on on video in like apartment complexes where you know a a lay person not even a pastor is baptizing

another person in a bathtub almost conks his head in the back of the the nozzle and and like well first

off is it okay for a lay person to baptize is that a thing or does it need to be a pastor does it have

to be in a church building or is it okay if it's going to be in like a a pool or a bathtub something

like that but even questions like well what happens if somebody accepts christ that doesn't have

any christian friends and is in a different city than the church where there's no context

you know questions like this really start to pop up question question number two for me

what does prayer look like on facebook okay so facebook's got a really nice prayer feature and

then the group thing and that's nice i'm sure you guys know what it is if not start a group and check

out the prayer feature it's pretty cool uh but but are we saying that god hears our prayers

on social media like we're not vocalizing our prayers and we're not gathered together uh in physical

space where many are gathered together and so if if we're just typing prayers does god acknowledge

our prayers uh or do we have to gather together physically to do that question three can social

media be a place of love okay let's be honest like we we've all seen the the eros version of love and

social media in the internet and digital is is filled with different types of sexuality and i don't need

to go down that road uh but there's also another type of love where it's the echo chamber where we

love so much of who we are we surround ourselves with friends and with sources and with content that's

driven in that way where we don't see other people's views or even other people unless they look and sound

and identify exactly the way that we do can social media be a place of love where it's not about eros

or or where it's not about echo chamber but maybe where it's more about agape where it's self less

love selfless not selfish maybe it's more sacrificial maybe it's more unconditional can social media give

more than it takes that's the question question number four as we're flying through here church

services live streamed are we collecting followers or are we making disciples way before apple even

created the newton okay there's a throwback for you the apple newton google that if you don't know what

that is jesus developed an incredible social media strategy jesus did john 6 open up the bible go to

your bible act do a sword uh drill get there as quick as you can read it on your own time discover

the social media strategy where it's not just about reach but it's about engagement as well awesome stuff

question five can tick tock create an environment for learning and teaching you know okay so some of your

your heads may be exploding your tick tock yeah i was very intentional when i crafted this can tick tock

create an environment for learning and teaching what what is now i'm not saying sermons i'm intentionally

not saying sermons there's nothing biblical about the sermon there's nothing biblical about the 40 minute

process of what happens with teachings when in our physical churches today is there a way that we can use the tip

talk tick tock tick tock structure to teach people that are engaging in a tick tock culture i'll be

honest and if you're on our email newsletter just recently i sent out a tick tock uh link or a tick tock

video that revolutionized that changed a lot of my perception of view of of the the church and people

it's a very powerful video and it was by someone who was called good godless yeah i'm not exaggerating

here hit me up text me or hit me on social media if you want more information on that you didn't get

the email but there's an opportunity here to reimagine what we're doing with the sermon to even make it

effective to reach and to connect with people in a tick tock culture using a tick tock uh platform

remember it's not recreating the same thing that we're doing in physical space this is the limitation

if we're looking at doing anything digital if we just do the same thing we're doing physically

well shoot we're just reaching those same 25 of people that are already doing physical stuff

we've that are already attending that physical church we've got to do something different and here

comes these questions that i'm asking why not why not do a church only on social media question six

here's another question i'm sure some of you are wrestling with can social media create devotion

to god or can it just create religious consumers devoted to a brand this is a hard one uh and this is one

that comes with intentionality i believe uh what's the heart of the people that are driving the social media is

is it pointing towards god or is it pointing towards self uh and we'll unpack that in future one question

seven i love this one is the holy spirit capable of moving in our digital lives no one is questioning

whether the holy spirit can move in physical space asking the question have we seen god move have we seen

the holy spirit move in our lives digitally have we seen god move have we seen the holy spirit move

in other people in other people's lives digitally hey these are some questions i'm intentionally

being vague because i i kind of want you guys to come up with some of the answers the heart of this

can an axe to church be done through a church existing only on social media short answer here is yes and no

uh to according to uh to my friend from africa yes it can certainly be done according to my friend 20 year

former or 20 year pastor no it can't be uh and it really just depends on the context here like i said

of how they view community my friend my pastor only sees people viewed when physical community as the

community that's worthy of a church my friend in africa views digital community as a community that's

worthy of a church what's your view and how are you going to put this together and more importantly

what do you think culture is open to where are they receptive right now here in america 25 of people

are engaging in physical church that number has been dropping rapidly in recent decades and at the

heart of this really it's because the i think the church has been locked into a single method in a single

way and while church has and while culture has evolved the church claiming to be the same yesterday today

and forever jesus is has not evolved realizing that hey maybe jesus is the same but our methods need to

evolve it was funny i'm just even flashing here on a leonard sweet uh quote from soul tsunami this is a book

from maybe 20 years ago but talking about how there's more uh technology in a casio iron man wristwatch

um this is the quotes from like 1990 probably eight there's more technology in a casio iron man wristwatch

uh except but the problem is is that the church has not changed any excuse me this is a bad quote

there's more technology in a casio iron man wristwatch than the apollo entire apollo 11 space mission

yet the church has not changed anything that it's done since the apollo 11 space mission so over the

span of 20 years the church hadn't done anything different yet technology has grown immensely um going

from smart technology in a wristwatch than how we got to the moon crazy crazy stuff church here's the heart of

this digital community does not work like physical immunity so digital church is not going to work like

physical church is going to work if you're a digital planner start start and think this don't recreate

physical church on social media reimagine how the acts to church can operate on social media go back to

that punch list of baptism care communion love all the things that were there the teaching the worship the

praise giving uh producing leaders the site making hit all those things up and reimagine what that can be

like on facebook look at some of the the pioneers that are in this area it's just even on facebook i'm

talking um angela craig um hope city church pursuit church live there there's a number heart hearts like

his uh dr john harris is is one that's that's come up in at least in my attention recently there are plenty of

others that are out there forging away trying to get out there to recreate to reimagine what a church would

be in that digital space and so there's a lot of options here for that now for for some of you digital

ministry people uh that are working at physical churches let me challenge you with this every soul

you connect with even those beyond your church's physical reach need to be cared for and need to be

challenged spiritually you know so often i and i'm having these conversations with physical churches

that are doing digital ministry they just come up with this big question mark because in with a

physical church that's doing digital ministry very often the uh the physical ministry is feed the digital

ministry is feeding into physical so you don't actually do discipleship you don't do disciple making

you don't do church in digital space you do that in physical space digital is just the front door that

feeds into physical there's really nothing wrong with that strategy as long as you put a little

asterisk here and pay attention to hey what about those people that aren't within physical reach

what are we doing with them are we helping them get connected with somebody else to for spiritual

development for care for shepherding are we helping them find a church within their local region

or are we taking that up on in digital space answer that question pay attention to that

and and i want to challenge you it's not as hard to help grow develop disciple and care for people

digitally than what you think oftentimes it's relationships it's caring and it's listening to

those people at those times uh and that's the heart of it hey yeah there's been some great feedback coming

in here uh what con let me ask this somebody's asking this what kind of content works best for micro

church house church setting my gut tells me that stage shots don't work what's interesting in a micro it

depends upon whether you're doing video teaching or whether you know there's a micro what i would call

micro location where there's physical stream that's being broadcast in where it's it's not independent

of a physical church it's actually more of like a satellite extension of it um and so what i would tell

you is i i as a video director the tighter the better uh is is my gut on that because you're able to convey

more emotions facially uh the stage wide shot you're right that doesn't do that i i tend to go either

between a head to toe uh a mid thigh to top a head or um you know a chest shot up towards that uh especially

in the teaching that's micro location the other extension of the other opposite perspective of that

is a micro church where it's not about what's happening on a tv screen you're actually challenging

that volunteer that's opening up their house to shepherd to teach uh to care for at a much higher level

doing things like kc underground uh would do and some things like that so there's pros and cons there's

different levels of gray in between each but those are kind of those extensions to look at uh sounds

like what angela craig's been doing maybe yes there's there's a lot of angela craig in here hey somebody's

calling me out and i didn't mean to do this twitch is social too uh the stuff that jate airheart is doing

um you know a number of others matt um pastor susie uh comes to mind mark lutes uh comes to mind with

lux digital church i'm sure there's a bunch there i love this for me i don't care if people call it a

church or not this is another facebook user i don't care if people call it a church or not the people

you should be trying to reach aren't probably looking for a church anyway uh the word church probably might

scare them off focus what a church needs to be and do that the name hangs uh both sides up far

too often that's true i mean it's not wrong i'll have to look and see who that is but that that's

that's a very good word um what's interesting even with the digital planters uh it's it's digital

church or it's it's um missionary digital missionary and and it's kind of been some of my advice has been

use whatever word works best with the people that you're talking with yeah maybe you're a digital

church or maybe you're a digital missionary that's feeding into a digital church or to a you know

physical church different strategies different levels of gray this is why i love where we are in

2021 because it's not about a single strategy that just works and everybody's trying to copy

whatever that initial strategy is there's different layers there's different options there's different

shades of gray jesus is the same yesterday today and forever i am not watering that down what i'm saying

is that maybe there's different strategies on on how to utilize that for the kingdom and how to get

jesus in front of people and get people connected to christ uh ironically amen brothers exactly uh what i have

found true with those that i've been meeting and collecting uh into our community so cool love this

this has been a great conversation here love some of the comments coming in

i'll be engaging with some of the contents um post uh post this broadcast off air but we're gonna wrap this

has been a great beta uh episode uh 34 here uh who needs a building uh questions on the social media church

i don't look i don't have the answers at least not in this broadcast figure out how uh to answer these

questions ask your own questions and start to dig through them as well ultimately realize this stadia

wants to help you wants to help your ministry find digital purpose whether it's digital only planting

digital multimodal co-vocational head over to the church.digital for next steps on these things

and if you need help getting started you're you're stuck you don't know how to take that first step

he's literally giving you my cell phone number right here on the air 484-324-8724 like i said beta 35

what can the church learn from disney plus mcu and or kevin feige i don't know who actually

should take credit for some of these ideas but i i just gonna like i've loved some of the things that

i've seen and want to tie all of this in maybe even towards a digital expression of church next week

on the beta show so jeff kind of wrapping up from the church digital from stated church planting

and all the other fun stuff thanks for being here and we'll see you next week here at the beta show

y'all have a good day