EP197: Jason Shepperd & Building a Microchurch Network

Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast, powered by Stadia Church Planting.

Through this podcast, learn about how God is using technology and innovation

in digital and digital environments around the world.

Our goal? To help churches like yours learn to be the church digitally.

Our heart? That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple-making

that will revolutionize your church.

And now, your host, here's Jeff Reed.

All right, so for this conversation, audience, I need us to take the digital hat off.

We are not getting technological in this conversation much at all.

Instead, we're really dealing more into this idea of relationships.

We're dealing more with this idea of networks.

Hey, it's Jeff here with the Church Digital, and also, coming soon, the Digital Church Network.

Now, you've heard me talk a little bit about this in many ways.

I resigned from Stadia to go towards creating.

God opened some incredible opportunities to open a digital church network,

a network of digital churches globally,

really championing almost this idea of doing, like, microchurch in digital space,

microchurch in the metaverse.

And so what would that even look like?

God opened this opportunity, gave me ways to connect with people,

and just literally had this sense upon me,

hey, Jeff, I need to create a network of digital churches.

The funny thing was, and I've said this publicly,

I have no idea what church networks do.

And so for this conversation, I actually sought out a guy that ran a microchurch network

that has been active in network ministry,

and asked the basic question,

what is it that you actually do?

Because, ironically, I feel like God's leading me to do that,

and I just have no clue what I'm actually supposed to do.

And so for the conversation, I'm bringing in Jason Shepard.

Now, Jason runs Church Project, among other things.

Church Project is a network of microchurches that are in the Texas area,

and he's been doing this for a while.

He's been having a lot of success with it.

And honestly, I sat down with him.

I was like, hey, I don't need you to explain digital.

I really don't want to know your take on digital.

It's okay.

I just want to know.

I want to learn.

I want to gain insight on how to be a network,

how to empower people to do ministry,

how to empower lay people,

bivocational, co-vocational,

how to empower the average person to pick up the mantle of Christ

and be that missionary in their neighborhoods,

in physical space.

And that's the heart of this conversation.

What does a microchurch network do?

So for this conversation, once again,

we're bringing in Jason Shepard from Church Project

and myself, Jeff, with the Church Digital

and coming soon, the Digital Church Network

in a conversation that I'm so eloquently entitling.

So what exactly does a microchurch network do?

Okay, everybody, here you go.

Hey, so Jason, man, thanks for jumping on the show here.

Maybe just even to kick us off,

tell us a little bit about yourself.

Tell us about Church Project, what all this is about.

Yeah, Jeff, thanks for the invitation.

I love what you're doing

and excited to learn more from you

and love to be a part of this today.

Yeah, my name's Jason Shepard.

I planted a thing called Church Project in 2010

on the north side of Houston.

And then we started planting other church projects

and we called that Church Project Network.

And then we started planting churches outside of ourselves

and we called that House Church Network.

I grew up in Tyler, Texas, east of Dallas,

sort of medium-sized East Texas town,

pretty isolated in my view of the church.

And then God started expanding my view

through just studying scripture in college

and traveling the world and working in churches

and just a deeper dive into the study of ecclesiology.

And so out of all of that,

combined with the frustration

of everything I had been perpetuating

for 15 or 20 years,

I started Church Project.

And we had no place, no people,

no funding, no name, no nothing.

In fact, Church Project isn't the name of a church,

which we say is sort of an idea.

And now we have a church of thousands of people

with no name.

But we are what we would call a church of house churches.

So we're one church made up of many house churches.

And that's what we help plant,

churches that are made up of house churches.

That's incredible.

There is so much in that opening conversation

that just right there, that one paragraph.

I'm just, I'm typing questions over here,

crazy, trying to remember everything.

Okay.

So like you opened up,

you spent time trying to figure out what is church.

And so you're a network of house churches,

which means that your view of church

may be a little different than the,

you know, the big building on the corner

of every street in Houston, Texas.

So tell me, like, what do you define as church?

Well, you know, that's a loaded question.

And actually, I would say

that's one of my biggest concerns

or maybe senses of calling in my life

is what is the church?

I mean, when we say church,

what does that mean?

You know, a guy, a PhD,

brilliant seminary leader at Baylor University

from Europe,

he wrote a paper one time

and he posited this idea.

And he said, you know,

most pastors would not be able to explain

what the church is in a theological way.

And I would say this too, Jeff,

I think that the church is the carrier

of doctrine to people, right?

I mean, we're carrying all this theology to people,

but the vessel in which we're carrying it,

the church,

I would say that doctrine of theology

or ecclesiology,

the theology by which we're carrying all theology,

the ecclesiology is not defined or expressed.

And I will say I grew up in a place

where I didn't even think about

what the church was supposed to be.

I mean, I thought about

what do I believe about Jesus

and sin and heaven and salvation

and the coming of Christ

and mission and all that.

But I really never thought about

what is the church.

And so when I started wrestling with this,

of course, I mean,

we started in Acts

and we see things in other places,

but I will tell you,

Titus, for me,

when Paul told Titus,

the reason I left you in Crete,

I'm like, okay,

now here we're getting down

to some empirical information, right?

Paul plants a church

on an island in Crete,

a large island,

and then he's leaving

to go do what he does best,

which is evangelize

and start churches as an apostle.

And then he says,

I'm going to put somebody else here.

So Paul appoints Titus

and he tells Titus three things.

These are the three things

you're supposed to do.

The reason I left you in Crete

was to straighten out

what's unfinished,

appoint elders in every town

as I directed you

and teach what's in accord

with sound doctrine.

And so I see this light centrality

of Titus,

but distributed leadership

in every town

because Paul wanted to make sure

that people in every town

had a pastor, elder available to them,

an overseer for them.

He didn't want Titus

being the guy to go to them

because that would limit

their access to Titus

and he didn't want them

coming to Titus.

That would access

their limit to Titus.

And so that would limit

their access to Titus.

And so he said,

look, you appoint leaders,

distribute leadership to people.

So he wanted to make sure

these leaders had sound doctrine.

He wanted to make sure

that they were living

a proper life,

all of these things.

So there is centrality

of oversight,

but there is distributed leadership.

So that's what Church Project is.

There is centrality of oversight,

but it's light.

As Alan Hirsch talks about,

a missional DNA,

there has to be some centrality

for a movement to happen,

but it's got to be

almost invisible.

And so we have centrality,

but it's very,

it's behind the scenes.

It's almost hard to see.

And we have distributed leadership.

I would say this,

we're a church

of thousands of people.

We don't really know how many.

I mean, you know,

on a weekend,

four or 5,000 people,

15 or 20,000 people

call this their church

on a regular basis.

We have no phone number,

no foyer.

We do own a building,

but we inhabit

a very small part of that,

our team that is central for this.

And the building is used

by ministries in our city

all the time.

We can talk about space.

I mean,

I have a real passion

and conviction

and calling for,

actually,

what I would say

is a theology of space.

I think churches

are projecting

a theology of space

all the time.

Whether they don't have it

or they have

incredible edifices,

we're projecting

a theology of space.

So the theology of space,

you know,

even the ecclesiology.

So,

I mean,

you listed out

a very minimalistic,

a basic,

maybe more of an essential approach.

Straighten out what's finished,

appoint elders,

you know,

teach the word.

That's the view of the church.

Does that,

so an established church

has a much more richer ecclesiology

that they're used to.

You're adapting

and maybe a more simpler

approach.

Is that the ecclesiology

of the house church network?

Like,

when you look at,

those are the three functions

of that.

Is there more

that you're adding

to that ecclesiology

of that house church?

More expectations?

No.

A house church here,

they have,

house churches have

a lot of expectations

and clarifications

of function,

but essentially,

they function as

a little church.

They have an overseeing elders.

So we have

a group of elders

who oversee

all of our house churches.

But our house church pastors

are empowered,

expected,

identified

to pastor

this congregation

of people.

And so we may have

70 house churches here,

let's say.

It's Church Product,

the Woodlands.

Up the road,

we have Church Product,

North County,

and they have

however many house churches

they have.

We're starting one

15 minutes west of us

and another one

northwest of us.

And so we have house churches

all over here,

but every centrality

has every location,

if you will,

every central hub.

We don't use the word hub

much,

but has its own elders

that oversee it.

But the function

of the house church pastors

is different

than the function

of the elders

or the overseers.

And the house church pastors

are pastoring that.

They're responsible

for cultivating

the culture

and the community

of discipleship

and relationship.

And so we say

house church

is the primary

source of community

and discipleship.

So all benevolence

happens in a house church.

And so in a typical

centrally located church,

what we read about

in Acts can't happen.

When we say,

hey,

they were selling their goods

and meeting each other's needs,

that doesn't happen

in a church.

Most churches I worked at

from mega

to medium-sized churches

was where I worked

in traditional model churches

before.

Let's just put

a real scenario

together here.

A mom with three kids,

her husband left her.

He's not paying the bills.

She needs some help.

How does she get help

from her church?

She calls the office.

The receptionist

sets up an appointment

for her

with the executive pastor

who she doesn't know.

She walks into the office.

She fills out a form.

She waits for the guy

to come down the hall

and get her.

He's nice.

Everybody's nice.

It's a nice experience.

Hi,

my name is so-and-so.

Please come in.

She's had to fill out information,

how much money she makes,

what her bills are,

all that.

The executive pastor says,

well,

our benevolence budget

right now is this

and we can help you

for a couple months

with your mortgage,

but we probably won't

be able to do it

after that.

She's grateful,

but eight weeks from now,

she's hopeless again.

I hate that.

I can't read about that

in the Bible.

I don't see it

and I built that

for many years.

What I love now

is this.

Somebody's in a house church.

Real scenario,

a man and a woman

going to house church.

Dude loses his job.

They're very blue-collar people.

They live sort of

paycheck to paycheck.

He loses his job.

They go to house church

that week

and because they're

in a great community,

at the end of the gathering,

we're praying for each other

and they share,

hey, we've lost our job.

People pray for them

and this guy says,

hey, why don't you get

with this person?

They're going to help you

on a job search.

They're good at that.

This person's going to help you

with a budget

and the next week,

this family shows up.

Real thing happened.

I heard about it last week

happening again.

This happens all the time.

Bag of money on the table.

Hey, will y'all

please open the bag.

Boom.

Hey, we're taking care

of your mortgage

for a few months

and we're going to help you out.

I mean, people buy

people's cars,

pay their hospital bills,

watch their kids for them.

I mean, it's just,

this is happening

in every house.

There's things

that we don't know about.

We just,

we work to hear stories, right?

We just want to hear the stories.

It's just happening automatically

and I think all of this

is completely contingent

upon the way

the church is structured

and so I think

much of ecclesiology

is structured

and I think churches

of different,

you know,

you can be complementarian

or egalitarian

or you can be

whatever preacher,

preacher,

that's great.

Now, I'm not saying

those things don't matter

but that doesn't affect

how your church functions.

I think the structure

of the church

is going to determine

how your church

is going to handle

all these things.

Benevolence,

pastoring,

frontline of counseling,

accountability,

church discipline,

community,

all of that for us

is happening in house church

whereas at other places,

central was trying

to make it all happen.

Is there any level

of centralization?

I mean,

you were talking

about centrality

at some level

but then you really

started talking more

about the regional aspects

and the elders

that are leading

some of these levels.

Is there any overarching

central umbrella?

What does that look like?

Sure.

Yeah, there is.

And in fact,

I think if there's not,

that's why we've

limited movements.

I mean,

people have retaliated

rightly so,

I think,

against this

mega central

kind of church

and so they've

started gathering

in isolated,

individualistic environments.

So I'll give you an example.

A guy comes to our church

gathering on a Sunday morning.

I meet him.

There's hundreds

or thousands of people

walking around.

I just happened

to meet this guy.

Hey,

what's your name?

What brought you here?

Have you been connected

to a church?

What's your story

with God?

And so he's like,

well,

I've been a part

of a house church

for the last five years.

And I'm like,

great.

Let's talk about that.

And I said,

well,

why are you here today?

And he said,

well,

the pastor of my house

church got cancer.

They had to quit.

We were meeting

in their restaurant.

They had to sell

their restaurant

and move somewhere.

And I'm like,

well,

where's your house church?

He's like,

well,

it's gone.

It ended.

And I said,

I love that you're

in a house church.

I'm sorry that it ended.

I'm sorry your house

church pastor got cancer.

I said,

if that would have

happened here,

let me let you know.

We have overseers

who would have cared

for you.

We would have cared

for the house church pastor

and we would have

raised up another

house church pastor

or this house church

would have been

integrated into another

the one closest to them.

And so,

yeah,

we have centrality

because it keeps it going.

And when you have

a bunch of individual

disconnected house churches

or micro churches

in a city,

it's really hard

to get together

to work toward

the,

you know,

the gospel spreading,

saturating a city.

And so,

we believe that

a centrality

is important

for endurance

and impact

and encouragement

and accountability.

So,

yeah,

we have,

so let's say

I have kids.

I want my kids.

I have an elementary school kid

and a high school kid.

We have kids in college.

So,

I want my elementary school kid

to have friends

in elementary school

and do things

that elementary school kids do.

So,

I want my high school daughter,

she has,

her best friends

are from her small group

in church

that she's been with

for years.

And I want her to go

on a mission trip

and go to camp.

But my daughter also works at,

she goes to two different

house churches

and she's like the little

kids pastor

at these two house churches.

She cares for these kids.

So,

but I do want her

to have friends her age.

And so,

we have,

you know,

a semi-traditional,

if you will,

student ministry

so that junior hires

and high schoolers

can connect.

We do believe

in the Sunday gathering.

And I think

that is a point

to press into here as well.

And so,

some of our centrality

helps make sure

that these things

occur,

whether it be

student small groups

or,

you know,

together,

all 70 or 80

or 90 house churches,

wherever they are,

we're all focusing in

on Malawi

or Haiti,

you know,

and so together

we have these things

that we're doing missionally

and that also

requires some centralization.

That's really interesting.

It's the centralization

allows the critical mass

for the areas

that a house church

may not have.

You know,

I know like,

you know,

one of the things,

one of the challenges

we talk about

like with house church

or microlocations

through digital

is like,

what do you do

with the kids

and what do you do

with the students?

And to be honest,

it didn't even occur to me,

hey,

like creating a network

like that

and maybe putting

the ones

and the twos together

to create that critical mass

to create something.

that's really interesting.

so talk to me

about how this started.

Like,

were there

20 house churches

around people

that were doing this?

Was it casting vision

and starting from scratch?

Was there gathering

of established people

and rallying around?

Like,

what was day one

as you were growing

this thing out?

Day one was scary

and lonely.

you know,

so I worked

at a great church

by all standards

and

I just couldn't,

I couldn't stay there anymore.

I mean,

I was in succession plan

to take over

when the 20 year older

pastor than me left

and,

you know,

we had just built

$27 million new facilities

and so,

but I just couldn't,

I just knew I couldn't,

this wasn't what

I was going to spend

my life doing

and so,

anymore,

although I loved the place

and I still do.

So,

I just designed a plan

with the leadership

there to lead.

I didn't want to take

anybody from that place.

I didn't want to

transfer culture.

I didn't want to be divisive

and so,

I went underground.

There was no way

to contact me

or find me.

So,

for many months

I was just invisible.

I disappeared

and I didn't know

what to do actually

at the end of 2009.

I mean,

I went away

my last day

at this place,

August 31st,

I went away

and just to the mountains

and I just prayed.

I'm like,

God,

I don't know what to do.

You put some things

in my heart,

been cultivating things

for years,

but it surely

wasn't formed

as clearly

as it is now.

And so,

I came back

and I found

a few people

to help me

that I did not

know before.

A couple of them

maybe I'd met

once somewhere,

but I found

some guys

who were also

sort of discontent

with church.

They didn't have

this calling,

but they were

willing to follow

and support it

and try something.

We had no money,

but we had no people.

I said,

look,

I'm going to pursue

this idea with my life

and keep doing

whatever job you're doing.

Some of them

were working at Apple

or Starbucks

or whatever,

and I said,

look,

I'm going to hope

that this will

support me financially

so I can devote

all my time to it,

but if it doesn't

or can't,

I'll do something else

and actually,

I think people need

support at the beginning

more than they need

it at the end.

I mean,

I'm working to

let the church

support me less

and do more things

on the side now

because I needed

more time

at the beginning.

But we just started

with,

I mean,

I had three guys

help me.

Nobody was being

paid by the church.

There was nothing

and I said,

look,

we can start

having these conversations

about this

with people that

we meet,

but we can't invite

anybody from any church

we've been a part of.

And so,

we had four little

information gatherings

and so like 40

or 50 people

somehow came to those.

There was no marketing.

We've never done

a marketing thing,

a mailer.

We've never done

any advertising

at all,

ever.

I hate it.

It makes me look

like everybody else.

And so I'm like,

I'm not like everybody else,

but marketing is going

to make me look

like everybody else

and it makes us look

like the commercial

organization of a church

and I hate it.

I met somebody yesterday,

they were in discipleship

in this coffee shop

in our city

and the person

discipling them

I know well

and she introduced

me to this person

and I said,

what brought you

to our church?

And she said,

the fact that you

don't do any marketing

let me know

that you're very different

from every other church

around here

and I just kept

hearing about you

and so I investigated.

Like we're a little bit

of a covert movement.

Like, I mean,

if you get to be

a part of us,

you had to do

a little bit of work,

right?

There's no signage

or billboards

or advertising

and we started

like that

and so somehow

40 or 50 people

showed up to a gathering

and I just said,

look, we're going to

become a church

of house churches

and if you come here,

you're going to live

in an intimate community

with people

and I defined

what house church is.

I believe it's

a diverse community

and we can talk

about that in a minute.

What are some

of the definitions

of descriptions

of a house church?

I defined

and described

what a house church

was at least

as much as I knew

at the time

and I said,

this is what

we're going to pursue together.

I said,

we'll have some

common gatherings

on Sundays

but they will not be

shows,

they will not be productions,

they will be like,

you know,

plastic chairs,

simple.

I believe,

I guess I need

to digress into this.

I do believe

when I see an Acts

and other places,

even throughout

the Old Testament,

it seems like God

really valued

people getting together

to hear the word.

I mean,

you see Ezra,

you know,

building a platform

and preaching the word

and people getting together

and singing.

You see an Old Testament,

you see a New Testament,

I mean,

they're getting together

by the thousands

in the temple courts

but then they're distributing

it at house churches

throughout the week

and then I see it in heaven

and so I see it

in historical movements too

and so I can't disparage

the gathering

but I should protect us

from becoming

gathering centric

and so we can't

disparage it.

It's biblically,

I can't unsee

the beauty

of the gathering together

but it has its function

and it's a small part

of the whole thing

and so we keep it

really scaled back.

like our gatherings

are very,

very simple.

We spend not much time

getting ready

for our gatherings.

They're done well

but they're very,

very simple

to let people know

this isn't about this

and I would actually say

our gatherings

actually exist

to support

house churches.

I mean,

the fact that

I or whoever

were preaching

through a passage

of scripture

helps our,

we're discipling

our house church pastors

because they're hearing

that teaching

and it also

helps protect

doctrinally

in the house churches

because some people

might hear something

in a house church.

Let's say a house church pastor

is going rogue doctrinally.

They got people

in their house church

that would say,

whoa, whoa, whoa,

we see a disconnect here

from what we're hearing

doctrinally

that the elders

of the church

are teaching us

and what you

as a house church pastor

are saying

and we've had

one or two instances

only out of 11 years now

where people

in a house church

have raised a concern

all the way up

to the elders.

Our house church pastor

is saying some things

that seem incongruent

with the doctrine

of the church at large

and so Sunday gatherings

really support house church

and people

want an opportunity

to worship corporately.

I really believe that

and so that's why

our Sunday gatherings exist

to teach sound doctrine

to protect it

within the house church

and to give people

an opportunity

to gather corporately.

So 40 people

when we started

I knew like four of them

and so we said,

look, we had

we had four gatherings

out of that

we had like 40 people stick

so we said,

look, we're starting somewhere

we found a little bitty warehouse

to gather in on a Sunday

at a Sunday gathering

and we said,

look, you 20

you're going to this house church

you 20

you're going to this house church

I knew one of the men

I met one of the other men

I started discipling them

every week

multiple times a week

I'd meet with them

I mean, they'd been walking

with the Lord for a while

but I wanted to make sure

their doctrine was sound

and they understood

what we were doing

so I said,

Rob, you're going to

pastor on the east side

of 45

Randy, you're going to be

the house church pastor

on the west side

of 45

40 people that were coming

if y'all want to be

a part of this

you're in a house church

so go

and two house churches

became four

in about three or four months

and they just grew

and again

people were just telling people

their friends

their neighbors

somebody's cutting their hair

which I'm way overdue

for a haircut

I get one today

thankfully

I mean, friends

are telling their friends

and neighbors

inviting people

into this new little community

they're a part of

and year one

we went from zero

to about 100 people

well, 40 to 100 people

year two

100 to 200 people

and again

we didn't change anything

years two to four

we went from 200

to 800 people

and then

and again

we changed nothing

not even

anything we do on Sundays

no marketing strategies

nothing

and then

you know

after that

it just kept

going and going

it's crazy

Is that multiplication

like is that intentional

where you've got a process

that you walk people through

is it

laissez-faire

where it just happens

naturally through it

like

what's the DNA

on the multiplication piece

within what you're doing

It's intentional

but

it's

it's

different

now

than it was

because

before

like

our intentionality

early on

was just

my relationship

with everybody

had this conversation

and we believe

every

level of discipleship

should include

multiplication

one-on-one

if I'm discipling

somebody

our intention

is that

they will in turn

disciple somebody else

a house church

and our church

we think that

our church

should be multiplying

we think a house church

should multiply

and an individual

disciple

should multiply

and so

yeah

we

we are intentional

about that

we're actually

very intentional

about that

on the individual level

we have

I met a guy last night

they moved here

from Indiana

he's a pilot

he and his wife

they have three kids

I just met him

last night

they've been here

for months

they're

they've both

been through

individual discipleship

somehow

our processes

work

and they got

connected to somebody

boom

this person

discipled them

now this guy's

already discipling

somebody else

in our body

within a matter

of months

of them being here

I meet people

in their

they may

I literally

will meet people

who have been here

for years

and I'm like

well tell me

about your house church

they're like

well we're in

this house church

and we used to

be in this one

but that one's

planted us

and so now

we're in a

different house church

and so yeah

I mean

it's intentional

but we've had

to recalibrate

it as we've

grown

we've had

to make sure

that our

systems actually

work

because our

systems when we

were a hundred

people are very

different when we're

thousands of people

now

but you know

I hear some

people sometimes

when I say

systems

they're like

ah

now you're

into an

organization

for me

and I'm like

I think the

most organic

thing in the

world

is a system

I mean

I was pre-med

so I know

about all

of the

systems

in our

body

there's so

many

ecological

systems

that we

have

I think

the difference

between an

organization

and an

organism

is not

that we

have

systems

it's that

the systems

for us

they're

autonomic

they're

invisible

and they're

not the

point

the point

is the

organ

the point

isn't

the system

and so

for us

our systems

are

autonomic

they're

simple

they're

invisible

you can't

even really

see them

they just

naturally

function

and so

we've had

to figure

out how

those systems

adapt

as we

have

grown

and that's

been difficult

I mean

I would say

that in the

last year

because we've

grown so

much

during and

since the

pandemic

we've had to

recalibrate

some systems

and we want

to make sure

our systems

are always

people systems

they're never

click a button

system

and they're

never

you know

they're never

electronic

systems

they're people

systems

and so

we don't

have a

system

that doesn't

immediately

connect

to people

and so

that's

that's

been the

difficulties

we've

grown

yeah

like I

won't

even pull

that thread

a little

bit

so

I am

interested

in coming

to your

church

you don't

market

so

like

it would

a new

person

coming

to a

house

church

would that

person

come

through

an

individual

is there

a website

with a

listing

like

what

what is

what's

that

first

step

into

the

house

are we

okay

inviting

complete

strangers

into

the

house

is there

any

privacy

or

concern

centered

around

that

like

what

what is

that

early

gestation

look like

yeah

I mean

your questions

are informed

and I love

them

and they're

important

I mean

the things

that you're

asking

actually

really matter

they matter

to us

and these

are the things

that we

care about

too

so

how does

somebody

find out

about church

project

generally

they find

out

about

church

project

because

somebody

told

them

about

church

project

I mean

we say

look

the

I mean

the

early

Christian

movement

happened

from people

telling

people

and we

say

the more

we love

Jesus

the more

we're

going to

love

what

he

loved

and so

so

our

building

was used

by

Lifeway

one time

to do

this

big

video

shoot

somebody

in our

church

is an

author

and they

asked

to use

our

building

and we

said

of course

and then

they brought

in a

really

world

famous

speaker

that was

part of

this

video

series

and so

I won't

use her

name

but she's

awesome

and so

I see

this lady

a few

months later

I'm in

Africa

with her

and she

says

Jason

let me

tell you

about my

experience

in your

city

she said

I

got out

of

I got

out of

the airport

and I

ubered

to your

to

the area

of the

city

where

you

live

and

I

get in

a

conversation

in the

car

with

the

uber

driver

and the

uber

driver

starts

talking

to me

about

Jesus

finds

out

I'm

a

believer

and I

asked

the

uber

driver

are you

part

of

a

church

community

here

and

they

said

yes

a

thing

called

church

project

she's

like

I'm

actually

going

there

to

shoot

a

video

later

to

use

their

building

she

goes

into

the

hotel

the

person

who's

the

receptionist

of

the

hotel

has

a

conversation

with

her

and

what

are

you

doing

here

I'm

going

to

do

a

video

shoot

oh

cool

for

what

she

tells

her

oh

great

where

are

you

doing

that

I

at

a

place

called

church

product

your

reception

says

I

actually

am

a

part

of

that

and

so

they

start

talking

she

goes

and

gets

her

talking

about

I

had

a

guy

from

Sydney

Australia

call

me

during

the

pandemic

we

had

a

zoom

call

like

this

and

he

said

well

if

the

Sunday

gathering

is

about

discipleship

and

you're

teaching

the

word

and

all

that

he's

like

what's

your

strategy

for

evangelism

and

I

said

evangelists

he's

like

what

do

you

mean

and

I

said

our

evangelism

strategy

is

evangelists

is

evangelists

like

is

our

evangelists

that's

our

evangelism

strategy

and

that

was

Jesus

evangelism

strategy

I

believe

discipleship

produces

evangelism

I

believe

that

and

so

most

people

come

to

our

church

because

somebody

invited

them

you

can

google

church

project

and

then

you

can

find

stuff

and

so

some

people

do

google

it

to

find

out

what's

going

on

they

want

to

do

a

deep

dive

on

our

website

what

do

you

believe

or

what

people

who

are

looking

for

something

different

are

fine

with

that

somebody

who

doesn't

want

something

different

they're

not

going

to

come

here

so

yeah

but

here's

the

really

wild

thing

Jeff

people

go

to

the

house

church

closest

to

them

so

most

gathering

in

history

of

the

church

that