EP266 - Women Streamers, Trolls, and the Struggle of Female Content Creators

Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological

innovations within the church. But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions.

Is disciple making possible digitally? How should we approach the digital mission field?

Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? Oh, and where does the metaverse

fit into all this? Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church

plant. The Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church,

digitally and physically. Our heart? That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on

disciple making that will revolutionize your church. And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed.

All right, hey, welcome to the Church Digital Podcast Twitch edition here. We're broadcasting

live at this moment. It's Thursday, 3 p.m. Eastern, and we're on TV slash digital church

network. We're in season four here of the Church Digital Podcast, Jesus Gamers in Church. We're

digging into exploring the idea of not just digital church, but gamer church, one of the fastest

growing categories of digital churches, at least in America today. And we're even seeing expanses

in gaming churches globally. We've done deep dives into what church looks like, what digital missionaries

look like, what nerd culture looks like. Just so many different topics we've hit. Even what church

looks like inside of video games. Last week, we had DJ Soto and Pastor Coco talking about VR MMO

church in the MMO side, where we talked about Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy 14, and what church looks like

within FF14. So some good stuff. And I just said FF14, like I actually know what I'm talking about. I

really don't. And so this is purely an example of fake it till you make it. Although my daughter

just walked out, who is the FF fan and is waving at me. So that's a good thing. Hey, listen, we've got

a great show for you today. This is not the show that we were planning on. We had to pivot a little bit.

We had promised and talked about earlier a conversation with Dr. Carl from the American

Association of Christian Counselors. We were going to do a deep dive on neurodivergency and how to do

ministry in some of these areas when you're dealing with some mental challenges and people with some

issues like that. And so we were going to have that conversation. And Mark Lux, excuse me, Mark Lutz,

or Mark, however you pronounce the dude's last name, was going to be part of that. And TJ was

going to be a part of that from God Squad. And everybody got sick, like sick, like COVID.

And so Mark and TJ, God bless you, get better. We'll do the conversation at a later time and

excited about that. Even Dr. Carl was excited to jump into this conversation to really explore

how to do digital ministry centered around neurodivergent and some mental challenging

issues with that. So we are going to do that later. And one day we will actually get

Mark's name correctly pronounced. It's been years at this point, man, and I've never done

it right. That's embarrassing for me. We're going to move on here and we're going to bring

in today's show. And so we're not going to do the neurodivergent conversation. And instead,

we're going to make it ladies night here on the church digital. And we're going to, I want

to bring on Asia and I want to bring on Amanda into the conversation. And so Mark, who's actually

doing tech with COVID is, is, uh, is running and thankfully pressed the right button. So

Asia, Amanda, thanks for jumping on, on the show here.

Thanks for having us.

Great. So I jokingly said it's ladies night. It's actually like three in the afternoon. So

it's ladies afternoon. Um, you know, maybe I should say something like girl power, uh, or, or

whatever, by the way, that this is, this is going to be so awkward for the rest of the

show. Like it's going to be fun. The last concert I actually saw publicly, um, and this is going

to date me right now that I actually went to a venue and saw, I saw Spice Girls, their last

U.S. concert tour in 1990.

Pretty impressive though. What a good last.

That was impressive.

That's so cool.

I was working at, yeah, I was working for a radio station and, uh, they, they had free

tickets and I was just like, yeah, I'll go. And so I took, it was funny, my girlfriend

who's not my wife, she didn't even want to go. She, and so I took, I took two other girls

who I was, I was friends with, platonic, nothing weird. Um, but we went to, went to this

concert and, and so I'm, I'm a college senior and dude, I was the oldest dude at this

show, except for like the dads were like there with the three-year-old girls. Um, and it

was the most awkward, like, and I think I left the concert early. Like I couldn't even

stick around. I have no idea what that's to do with video games, but I got two women.

So why not tell the girls story? I guess. Very cool. And so whatever guests were around

are now running as how bad this is, but Hey, listen, I want to really dig into what the

ladies are doing here, uh, in, in ministry, maybe even talk about what women in streaming

and what women in Twitch, what this looks like and what opportunities there are. Uh, and,

and, and so thank you ladies for jumping on this and making a quick adjustment, uh, to

be part of this, but, but let, let's dig in. And so Amanda, let's, let's kick it off with

you. You're with, you're with God squad and, and, you know, we, your husband was on previously

and we, we've talked with him, I think a couple of times really centered around what's happening

with God squad, but it's been a minute. So why don't you give us an update and talk to

us a little bit about God squad, the church and, and, and what ministry looks like for

you guys, uh, on Twitch and beyond. Yeah. So, um, I am on staff with God squad church and

we're a church. We actually just celebrated our seven years, our seventh anniversary of

being, you know, here on Twitch reaching gamers, um, last weekend. And so, um, yeah, we're a church

that solely exists on Twitch and discord to reach gamers for Jesus. And, um, you know,

our four core values are, you know, we just want to be here to help gamers come to know

God, to experience community, to discover their purpose and make a difference. And really everything

that we do is wrapped around those four core values. Um, and yeah, it's been exciting. Uh,

you know, we go live for services on Twitch. We have so much community and fellowship in discord.

And, um, that's really us in a nutshell. Um, but it has been just a joy to be a part of.

So, yeah.

So I, I gotta ask before, before we swing over to Asia, you seven years is, is a long time. Like I,

I, I've never had the same job for longer than four years. And so like, that's, that's two careers

for me. Um, what have you guys, like, what has been the drastic change? What did you start doing?

And like seven years later, it's like, Oh no, that's a train wreck. We don't do that anymore.

There's gotta be something that you pivoted big time on.

Oh gosh. Um, I don't know why this is the first thing that's popping into my head.

Um, but we used to do, this is actually not even that huge. Um, I can't think of anything really

big, but the first thing that popped into my head is we actually used to do like, uh, during

our services, it was more of like a fun little thing we did. It was, uh, like a, oh my gosh,

was it a top 10, like gameplay? It was like a video of like, just the community members,

it was like epic gameplay. It was like top wins and people could like, uh, submit their

gameplay every single week. And then like during service, we would vote on like the best one.

Awesome.

It was, it was really cool, but like no one ever sent videos. It was like one or two people.

Um, so it was like a really cool idea. Um, but it was like really hard to keep

like doing. And so we decided to stop doing it. And so I don't know why that's the first

thing that popped in my head, but there's one example.

Very cool. So lots of changes. We're going to get into what kind of, some of the stuff that,

that God squad's doing and, and really digging with Amanda here in a little bit,

we're going to swing over to the other a Asia. Now is, is it appropriate for Asia? Do I,

do I have to say Asia, the girl, like what's, what's, you can call me Asia. My name is actually

Asia. So, okay. So it's not like, yeah. Very cool. So Asia, tell me a little bit about,

about your, your ministry, what it looks like. Um, so I always, whenever we have this conversation

or this kind of conversation, I get a little bit of, um, imposter syndrome because I don't have

like an official ministry at all, but in a sense I do in the sense that I'm like fulfilling my own

personal ministry, but that's kind of getting ahead of myself. Um, I've been doing content

creation for the last seven years now, around seven or eight. Um, and my heart has always been to build

relationships with people. And, um, I tried to do that through, um, just being creative and making

food. And those are kind of like the two camps I would hang out in. And I was really like on

Instagram a lot and on Facebook and on YouTube. Um, and then, you know, during lockdown in 2020,

um, Luke or Frostbite, as a lot of people in the space know him, um, he started, uh, streaming after,

I think the last time he streamed was when we were in college, but he started streaming to

connect with people. And then I got really involved with just like his community that he started growing.

And through that everyone in that community really encouraged me to, um, like start streaming on my

own. And it was one of those, like, I don't know, like everything kind of came together where I was

like, this is like what I've been wanting to do. Um, I just really have a heart for, like I said,

building relationships. And like, I, I, in my, the way that I operate, like whatever I create,

um, um, uh, content wise is just the, like the vehicle to, um, or like the catalyst for those

relationships. And I started viewing, um, my channel and my, we were joking around about this,

but my laundry room has like an extension, like a virtual extension of my home because I'm all about

like hospitality in the sense of, I want people to feel at home with me, um, wherever, like whether

that is like, uh, uh, in a physical home or in the digital space or just grabbing coffee

or whatever, like I always want people to feel comforted and, um, safe and like have an

environment where we can build relationships together. Um, and so it's been really cool over

the last, a little over two years, um, um, kind of like iterating on that and, um, really

focusing in on like that perspective and like really connecting with people that I wouldn't

be able to, if it wasn't for being on Twitch. So anyways, it's, it's been, it's been a joy.

Yeah. Yeah. I totally want to get into content creation and we've, we've not, I mean, we haven't

had like a dedicated content creator in this, in the season yet, but I mean, lots of people create

content at some level, but like, before we get there, I just want to call out if you're watching

this on YouTube or obviously on Twitch. Um, there's a, there's a washer and dryer literally

behind you right now. Like your, your backdrop is, are like, are those working machines?

They are. They are. Um, we like to joke around about, uh, these machines that they're like fancy,

big, massive speakers, but really they're just a washing machine and a dryer and they work great.

And we got them from a scratch and den store. And, uh, yeah, that's, this is, it just is too big.

This room is too big for it to just be a laundry room. And I was like, you know what? I can either

like stream from like, I don't know, from like a corner in the dining room or in Luke's, like in

our living room or temporary living room that is also Luke stream room. But I was like, I could just

also use a space and I feel like I made it look cool. So. Yeah. Do you find yourself like doing a

random load of laundry, like real quick while you're working or, um, you know, you, you spill

something on your socks and just rip them off and throw them in by himself? Like it's, it's,

it's convenient, right? It is. It is very convenient. I, I do, uh, laundry here, uh, here and there

when I'm working, but the funniest thing actually also my light all of a sudden started, decided to

start flashing, but, um, I have a, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Hopefully it'll stop in a second or I'll

have to do something. Um, but I have an on air, like little, uh, led sign that hangs above,

uh, that door, uh, that lead that's coming from our kitchen and I, um, have to turn it

on or else my brother or Luke will like walk, walk in with just like a load of laundry, maybe

while I'm streaming or in like a work meeting or something. And, uh, I, there were just too

many embarrassing moments for them where they just found themselves in awkward positions,

looking at my coworkers, maybe not like fully presentable to the, to the public. Um, and,

uh, so I had to like put a light to indicate like right now it's on. So my brother knows

to not like come in here with a load of whites or something while we're doing the stream.

That's awesome. Well, let's, let's dig in here a little bit. It's, it's interesting. St.

Bear, uh, brings up a great point in Twitch, uh, or in chat here. Twitch does not have to be about

video games, food streams, crafts, creativity, coworking, et cetera, are all awesome outside of the box

ways to build relationships through digital tools. And in Asia, as I recall, um, like you're, what

you're focused on isn't necessarily video games, right? Like let's, let's talk a little bit about

the heart of some of this content that you're digging into.

Yeah. So my, like I said, my mission is just to like create a hospitable environment for people

to build relationships with me and with each other, whoever's like coming into this virtual space.

Um, and so everything we do, I try to keep it like chill and vibey. So we, yeah, we do a lot of

coworking streams for people that are, um, working from home or, you know, like just have the

capability to have Twitch up or something while they're working or studying, um, just to create like a,

a shared workspace, uh, also do sewing sometimes and, um, art and digital art and cooking. Sometimes

I'll be on the other side of the store doing cooking streams just to like make people feel

like they're coming into the living room with me or around the dining table or something, um,

to yeah, build those friendships. And, um, I'm a terrible gamer. Like I really enjoy puzzle games.

Like I do enjoy those puzzle games and sim type games. I like those a lot, but when it comes to

like anything FPS or anything, I'm just like terrible and I'd rather just, uh, build my dream

home in Sims and hang out with you than like try to probably be carried in destiny. So, uh, but yeah,

I, that's, that's kind of our aim or my aim whenever I'm streaming.

So like, you don't have a specific topic, like, you know, I'm hearing some of, some of the guys

and some of the others talking about, Oh, I only play this game and, you know,

Yeah, no, no. So it's, so you're, you're just kind of broad and

Yes. True. A true variety streamer. That's I, I really lean into that.

How, how do you stream in your kitchen? Like, cause you're cooking, right? So what, what does,

what does that look like? Um, I use for all my streams and it, I feel like really shines when

I'm doing cooking streams. I use a software called switcher studio. Um, it's actually the company I

work for full time. I do all my streaming stuff, like as kind of like part of my job, but then

also like off the clock. Um, and so I'm able to have a pretty simple wireless setup with, um, my iOS

devices as cameras. And so it's like easy for me to move everything from here into the kitchen and

I don't know, make an omelet or something, uh, hang out with people. Uh, but yeah, it's fun.

Yeah. I had forgotten that you, you were at switcher studio. Like that, that was, um, I've had several

friends that were actually still are using that. And so it's, it's a, it's a great, uh, low cost,

simple solution, uh, to, to get involved in small churches, small spaces. Like you, you can really do

some really powerful stuff with that. Um, and so that's beautiful. Like you're creating,

you're creating content connected with people. You're, you're streaming kitchen and kitchen

cooking, um, and all that, that fun stuff. Um, so, so let's talk here. I mean, you're, you're both

ladies. Thank you. Um, that was awkward. So let's talk here. Like are your audience, um, like women,

do you feel like when you're on, you, you cater more to women that women are more wanting to connect

with you in those environments? You know, and even God squads, more of a church, like

the representation of a woman involved in that and, and, and others, what, what's the role? What's,

what's the purpose? Do you find purpose in being a woman in this space?

Hmm. You want to start? I don't know. We had really good conversations about this,

just me and Amanda in the past.

Uh, yeah, I can start. All right. Um, well, at least for me, like my audience, um,

I feel like it is mixed. Um, I feel like I'll just naturally connect with women more. Um, I,

you know, tend to be kind of girly, you know? So, um, I think I'll just naturally connect with women

easier, but at least for my streams, I don't stream on my personal channel. I stream weekly on the church

channel. Um, and those are definitely mixed, just hanging out, playing different games, whatever

I'm feeling like on that day. Um, but yeah, I love, I love just the opportunity to, to be a woman in

this space. Um, because it, it's got its own, like it's got different types of challenges,

right? Where everyone has challenges that they face when going live or doing whatever. Um, you know,

but we as women have our own unique challenges and I love to be able to be an example. Um, I find a lot

of purpose in that, um, just to encourage women, you know, that they can do it too, that they can step

out, be a light, um, be a leader in the space. And, um, yeah, I find a lot of purpose in that. And I

just want to do whatever I can to help other women kind of find that encouragement, that empowerment,

that push, you know, if they've been feeling to do something to go ahead and do it, you know,

like you're awesome. Like you have amazing things to bring to the table. Um, and we do, we need more

women to step up. And so I just like being in this position to be able to, yeah, encourage other

women and just to be an example. At least that's my hope to be an example, um, in some way. So

I think you do great. Um, yeah, I mean, similar to what Amanda said, I definitely find purpose in,

or I appreciate the unique perspective, bringing that unique perspective to a space like this.

I'm very big on like not existing in a vacuum. And so I, my desire is not necessarily to focus only

on like a specific demographic of people or like just women or a woman of color or whatever,

but my hope is, um, that we can celebrate, um, uh, diversity. And part of, part of that is just

like acknowledging like, you know, blind spots that people may have. And so being able to have those

conversations either like amongst content creators or like me and Amanda have had really great

conversations, um, or just talking to other people about this topic, I think it just helps, uh, people

broaden their perspective of how to serve the people that they are serving in their context and capacity.

And that doesn't mean like, you know, at least for me, like, I, I just don't like to like shoo

in on, on one, uh, group of people, but, um, um, but yeah, like, I think that it, it's like a both

and effect where we're encouraging and supporting, um, other women in the space to empower them all to

do the things that, you know, the lawyers call them to do. So, yeah.

Yeah. You know, it's, it's 2023. Um, do you still feel the male machismo, you know, um, ego in gaming

in, uh, and even moving beyond gaming in Twitch within, in the communities there? Like, is there

still kind of that, um, intolerant approach or has culture started to shift within Twitch overall

recently where it is more, uh, accepting and empowering?

Hmm. I, I, I, go ahead. Yeah. Delay.

I, I, I've definitely seen it improving for sure. Um, I think that we've come a long way. I mean,

I think that there will always be those people and I don't think that we're a hundred percent

there yet. Um, but I think we've made a lot of progress. I think there will always be,

you know, those guys, whether they realize they're doing it or not, um, that are kind of

like stuck in their own ways and unintentionally still create this barrier between men and women.

Um, and I experienced that a lot. Honestly, I experienced that more, the unintentional side

where they just are unaware of just like behaviors and habits that they have that just naturally

create this barrier that make it harder for women to kind of like, you know what I mean? But I,

I really do think we've come a long way. And so, um, yeah, I think, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. Like, I would say, I think like, you know, people always be crazy

or just can be crazy. I think like overall, like there is like a positive, um, shifts where, um,

women are, or there's like more, um, inclusion, um, in the digital space, but I would also,

I would agree that a lot of it is, um, more subtle. And, um, I, I, the experiences that I've had,

um, it's, it's hard to say cause like, there's like the big, we can talk about the space in general,

or we can talk about like in, uh, the like niche Christian community of streamers. Um, I,

I think what's very, my experience is that, um, a lot of times, like I feel like this, uh,

weird draw that I feel like I need to like prove myself sometimes. And, um, I feel like my light just

keeps deciding to change weirdly, whatever. It's fine. Um, I find, once again, I think this is like

a very subconscious thing that people aren't purposely doing, but, um, in the Christian

creators space in particular, um, a lot of times, like when people find out who my husband is and

they're like, Oh, okay. Okay. And then like, I've like, whatever hit some benchmark that they were

expecting. What, like I said, I don't think it's on purpose. Um, and this is not saying everyone does

this. I just have noticed this. Um, whereas, um, you know, if people don't know my connection to

Luke or to Love Thy Nerd, which is the organization that we are both connected in, um, there's like a

little bit of a disconnect there. And, um, I feel bad because I know that there are other, um, women

that are in the same position as me, but are not like, they don't have a significant other that is,

you know, tied to this community. Uh, and I think it's just that much harder for them to feel connected

and feel seen in the space. So that's kind of like where the, my burden is.

Sure. Yeah. I feel that. I feel that.

You know, St. Bear is in chat right now and he's, he's talking about, you know, specifically

Amanda, like you're not just a streamer. You lead this, you lead the organization with,

with God squad and very influential within that. Uh, in, in the flip side is he's, he's talking

about Aki who's on the show. And, you know, we talked about how Peach is part of streaming and

setting an example, uh, for other female streamers like Peach, um, who just out of pure ignorance on

my side, because I'm fake it until you make it. I don't, I'm not a gamer. Um, who are some other

people in this space, some other female, uh, voices that, that we should be looking at that, that, that

are, um, having a powerful influence, a positive influence, uh, within culture.

Uh, well, I'll say, um, off the top of my head, mainly because I've been connecting with these

specific ladies lately, but Miss Positivity, um, is great. Um, and I heard, I, I'm not an FPS gamer

myself. So like I, you know, if you, that's what I hear, you know, if you shoot and kill the things,

like I'm happy for you. Um, but I hear that she's actually cracked, but she's just so awesome.

Um, so Miss Positivity, um, her shades, Crossing Tommy, Cesare, you are just some incredible women

in this space that are so encouraging and they just want to uplift and empower other people.

And I've just loved getting to know them. So those are a few that I would say.

Yeah. I would say I'm going to shout out. She probably would hate that I did this, but like,

I really love the, like behind the scenes women that are getting stuff done, uh, in this space.

Uh, Kate Katawaki, she is one of the, uh, co-founders of Love Thy Nerd. And she's just,

I mean, I guess she does, she is on stream like once a week cause she helps record a podcast.

Um, and so you can, uh, get a little more FaceTime with her there, but for the most part,

she works behind the scenes and she just is very intentionally creating content to encourage

and sharpen, uh, believers in this space and also like create a bridge to, uh, for, for those who

are not believers in this space and who are just, you know, need the love of Jesus. So, um,

all the love to her. Yeah. That's, that's so, that's so cool. You know, it's, it's really

interesting to see, um, well, let me ask it this way. You know, we talk a lot about contextualization

in, in digital ministry, right? Where, you know, like, um, the digital missionaries, I'm thinking

Jake, uh, Jake is going to reach the people that Jake's going to reach. And Jake as a digital

missionary, his context is completely different than Aki. Aki is going to reach more of a family

person. Jake is, is interested in Asian influence, like the, the hybrid fusion, whatever thing

that the Jake works, but it's, it's Jake, you know, you can't explain it, but it's who

Jake is, but there's different contexts. Um, I'm curious when you look at like, uh, women

streaming, some of the names you just mentioned yourself included and yourselves included. Do

you find that there are specific audience that you can reach into that may be a, a male

counterpart can't, uh, similarly, are there guys, you know, is there a target audience for

them? Is there a persona that they can reach that maybe you can't get into? Like, talk to

me about some of that, the challenges within that relationship is, is there a persona that

you can reach that, that a male can't and vice versa? Um, I speaking as like a woman of color,

um, I am really appreciative of like the unique space, a unique voice that I can have in, um,

in this space and the like kind of community that I've like fostered been a, it's been a privilege to

like help foster, um, is just people who don't feel like I, so I'm mixed, uh, I have a, like a

interesting like upbringing. And so I've always felt like I didn't really fit into a specific box

really. Um, and that kind of like just became more intensified, like moving to the States,

um, and like doing life here and not in a bad way. Like it just, it just kind of the reality of life.

Um, and so it's been really cool to, to like talk about those things and help people feel seen and at

home when they feel like they don't quite fit in. And I don't, I don't think that's like unique to me.

Like I think that other people can definitely do that, but I think that like, um, embracing those

differences, like embracing the fact that we're not the norm of this like digital space, uh, helps

me connect with, um, yeah, people who feel like they don't fit in, in those circles. And like, I,

um, I have seen, like, like you said, like people are all, uh, wired differently and I'm not the person

who is going to be like the like entertainer person, um, on screen. Like I'm not like trying to

constantly catch your attention with like epic skills or whatever, or like a, like a big personality.

And, and so like a lot of times, like I will miss out on people who really do want to be

like hooked in to what, like, um, to really, uh, entertaining content constantly. But, but for

the people that like need a little bit of rest and they just need a little bit of relax, relaxation

because their whole lives are all crazy and they just like want to decompress. Like, I feel like

that is the, the, um, circle of people that I keep finding in, um, in my community, which I'm here

for. Uh, and so, yeah, I would say that like, uh, there are, uh, whether it's like women or men or

just different personalities. Like, I think we all, um, serve in this space in like very unique ways.

And so I think it's really, I think you made a good point of saying like that people have

different, um, different audiences. And I think it's good to like, not, I mean, I think it's okay

to like observe and like how people are doing things, but to not compare, like judge like one

community against another and like try to like figure out how to replicate someone else's community

necessarily. Yeah. What, what do you think Amanda?

Um, from my experience, I know that, you know, there is like, we've, we've been talking about

it. Um, how there is like, there's this, um, I guess this wall in between like women creators

and men creators or men and women in the space. And, um, you, one of the reasons behind it is like

just the world we live in, like women have to be more on guard, like to protect themselves

because like we live in a crazy world. We know the internet is crazy too. Like a lot of these women

who are like streaming, uh, or, you know, content creating, whatever, like they have like whispers

and DMS turned off just because of like, you know, all just the crap that they continually get

from just the crazy world that we live in. And so, you know, for me, like it's easier for women to

connect with women because we feel safer with each other. And so to me, that's been a very unique,

uh, opportunity that I've been more so discovering lately that I have this opportunity to help

connect with these women, um, and to help them connect with other people. And, you know, I've

gotten to know a lot of just really great men in the platform through God Squad Church that are just

really great guys. They're good people, you know, and to help kind of bridge, bridge that gap, you

know, bridge, you know, that because like, if they're trying to connect with them, but they're

like, I don't know you like stranger danger, stay away. You know, it's going to be harder for them to

connect because, you know, just by natural default, women are just more on guard. You know, if you're a

strange man, like reaching out, like they're not going to be very quick to answer your DM and that's

just the way it is. Um, and so I've loved being in this position to be able to kind of help, you

know, bridge those gaps and to connect with these women. And, you know, I, I have loved, you know,

just learning to step into that to, yeah, just to help more connection happen. And so.

Sure. I'm, I'm not looking for detail unless you're comfortable, but I do want to ask, like,

have, have, are you, have you experienced, um, awkward, difficult, bad situations personally

in church context in DMs? Like, has that even invaded within the church context that you're

operating in, Amanda?

Oh, a hundred percent.

Um, like a hundred percent. Yeah. Just having like the church title, you know, doesn't stop

people. Um, I was telling Asia of a story. I won't tell the details, but like, I was like

live streaming on our church channel, which says God squad church. And I had this guy come

in chat saying these, you know, interesting things. And I was like, wow, like even on a

church channel, I'm not safe. Um, and for me, like, it is unfortunate. Like I have just,

you know, it's just the way we're the world we live in. And so it, you know, it, it bothers

me, but it doesn't bother me. But yeah, like even in the church, like, you know, discord

and Twitch, it's open to everyone at any time, you know, and you're just going to get some

messages.

I'm laughing not at you. My heart goes out for you and I want to go into this, but

evidently Lux, I'm finding in chat, somebody went into Lux church service last night and

asked for a sex tape of, um, Mark and his wife, which I just said on the podcast. So

that's, that's horrible and horrendous. I was going to say awesome at the same time, but

it's, it's really, it's not awesome.

Yeah, um, not at all.

What? Let me, like, I want to dig into this because I mean, Twitch is, is open. And so

we're letting the world in, we're doing church where the world is. You're going to get crap

like that. That happens. Forgive crap. It's perhaps an issue. Um, but what literally, how

do you protect yourself from those situations? Like I'm, there's an administrative way to kick

them out. There's a mute button. Um, how does it prevent them from coming back in? Who are

people that like, you've got teams of volunteers that, that moderate, like what, what safeguards

are in place to, to, to stop this from happening or prevent this from happening?

Um, I, I think there are like different approaches to this for sure. Um, I have found that like,

um, for personally, I, I just don't see timing out all as like effective. Um, I think like

if it is like a bannable, uh, situation, like I will just ban. But that being said, I think

it's really important that like, that there is nuance to, um, to those approaches because,

you know, as we're like building community, if it's like someone random that I haven't, like,

I have no like context for, like, I honestly don't feel bad, like just not acknowledging them

and banning them and not saying anything. Um, but if it's like inappropriate con, uh, conversation

that is being brought up by someone that we have like developed, um, some sort of like

rapport, friendship with, um, I try to like have, I think actually St. Bear has been there

for, for some of them, like just try to have a conversation to reason out of like, Hey,

like, I just don't think like kind of come alongside, like, I don't think it's appropriate

for like, I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, confident myself to, to not have to like shut you down right away.

Like, I don't need to like, you know, go there right away, but I do want to have a conversation

if you're bringing this up, um, uh, like on stream, um, we can talk about like, Hey,

like, I don't think it's appropriate or Hey, maybe we should think through what we're talking

about.

But I feel like those kinds of conversations, just generally speaking, only have, um, stock

if there is a, some sort of like a relationship there.

So if I don't have that relationship with people, like I will just ban and then like, you know,

if like, if one of my mods these days, like my mods are pretty busy. So I'm like kind of

by myself a little bit or Luke is just Luke or something. Um, and so like people can reach out

to our mod team if they, you know, want to appeal for whatever reason. Um, but yeah, so that's the

way I try to approach it. Like I try to treat people as people as much as possible if there is

like a relationship there, but that's just, that's just my own approach though.

Unpack for me now we're, we're Twitch streaming this. And so Twitch people understand what

you just said, but my podcast audience is not as comfortable with Twitch. And so I want

you to unpack mod team. Like you just said my mod team handles this, uh, or like appeals

and stuff like that. Explain what mod team is that this is an interesting concept. I want

them to understand.

Yeah. Um, I think St. Bear mentioned this in chat as well, that like a lot of women have

like bigger mod teams than, uh, men who are like content creators on Twitch or I'm sure

are like on other platforms. Um, but, um, for me, it's like important to have people that

like show some sort of like commitment to, uh, your community, whether that means like they're

watching your streams constantly or they're in your discord server or whatever. Um, it, it,

it's like in our best in, in like the community's best interest to have like some people appointed

that have like a little bit of power in your chat to, um, to remove people from your streams

at like the most extreme or to mute certain, um, chatters if people are being inappropriate

or do other positive things. Like they don't just do negative things. Like they can also

have like a positive effect, uh, in your channel. But I think that it's important to, um, it's

like on one hand you're protecting your own self. Uh, if someone is like making, if someone

is like, uh, not haggling, that's the wrong heckling you and, um, making, I don't know,

just like teasing you or, or just like being completely inappropriate. Um, you want to protect

yourself, but also you want to protect your community. Um, like they don't need to hear

that either. Like it's not just you. Uh, I think that that's like a responsibility we

have as like people who are hosting streams that like you're also, um, trying to be considerate

of the people that are in your chat. Um, so mod teams can help you just, just, uh, keep,

keep, uh, the house rules in order, I guess. Um, but I mean, I'm sure like it's more, a little

bit more robust with God squad, but that's just my own disorganized approach.

Yeah. I I'd love to hear kind of God squad's approach. Um, how you maybe modifying some of

those ideas and I'm assuming all these are volunteers, right? Like, or is there a pay

structure for me? Yeah, for sure. No, no. I mean, I think you can pay your mods. And I know there's

some like streamers that like, uh, any like, yeah, any like sub money they get or whatever they can

like give that all. I've, I've seen people that like, they make their money like through partnerships

or whatever. So whatever money they get through Twitch, they just give to their mods, which I

think is really cool. Um, but yeah. Amanda, talk a little bit about mods.

Yeah. So for us, um, you know, we obviously have our staff, um, who is there for that, but we do,

we have a volunteer team of moderators as well. Um, for us being a church, uh, we always resort to

banning as like our last resort. It's not something that we're ever quick to do. We always try to leave

that as like our last option. Um, because we believe trolls need Jesus too. Um, and so we do,

we try to have conversations with them. Um, you know, for me, uh, my, one of my old mods,

when I used to stream my own personal channel, um, she shared in chat, but even, even now streaming

on my personal channel or the church channel, um, if I have someone coming in my chat, you know,

saying inappropriate things, I have no problem calling them out. I'm going to call them out.

Um, you know, and I'm gonna be like, Hey, you know, I'm glad you're here. I hope you're

having a great day, but please be, you know, kind and respectful. Um, you know, and if they

continue, I will time them out, but I do, I confront them and I give them a chance. And

our moderator team is so patient and they're always willing to talk with these people.

There is a line, you know, of course that, you know, once they cross the line, then yes,

we remove permissions, we ban, we block, you know, whatever. Um, but we really try, you know,

to exhaust all of our options, um, before we result to banning someone from the community,

just because as a church, you know, we do, we, we try hard to reach people for Jesus. We're here on

Twitch to reach people for Jesus. And these are the people on Twitch. Um, and so that's kind of our

approach, but it is, it's very similar. You know, we have a mod team, you know, bots are very helpful,

you know, in things like discord and Twitch chats, um, you know, for auto modding through those bots.

Um, but yeah. And so that's, that's kind of our approach in a nutshell is we, we try to not

ban unless it's absolutely necessary, but yeah.

Future generations, like the next level of, of women that, that want to stream the,

the ones that are just starting out, how do you prepare them for this? How do you help them

be aware of the difficult, the tense situations, the trolls, the, like that? Um, what does that look

like? Do y'all have any experience with that? Yeah. I, I mean, I think like part of it is just like

feeling or like having the confidence to have these kinds of conversations. I think like this is a,

uh, obviously people being trolls is not unique to just girls, but I feel like there is a unique

struggle, uh, that women have in the space that just, I don't know, like it's one of those, like

you, if you experience it, you know, if not like it's hard, it's hard to like, to fully like put

yourself in those shoes. Yeah. If you know, you know, in the worst way, um, and in the best way too.

But like, um, um, um, I think like, yeah, being like having a, a, an air of, um, transparency,

uh, when these things happen, uh, I think is like very encouraging. Um, and it helps make other

women in the space feel less isolated because, um, I mean, me and Amanda met for the first time in

person, um, at the Megazord event and we just like quickly connected and a big way, like instant

way we connected was just realizing that like, we both had very similar experiences in, um, this like

mostly positive, like, um, gaming, uh, like Christian content creating gaming space. Um,

but it was interesting to find like, Oh, it was one of those like, Oh, you too. I thought it was

just me. And like, you know, when most of the people in the circle are guys and, uh, just don't have

the same experiences as us, you kind of think that you're on your own and you just got to figure it

out and like, you know, just keep going. Um, and I mean, there's, there is an element for sure of just

like being resilient, uh, that you have to have if you're in the space, but it like, we also are

human and like, uh, we have the ability to connect with each other because we are human. Uh, and so I

think it's just like important to be open to have those conversations and like seek them out. Like,

I think like just being intentional goes a long way. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I feel like I'm

rambling. No, no, no. It's so good. Amanda, like, I'd love your take on this. Go ahead.

Yeah. Honestly, I have to agree with my girl, Asia. She said a lot of good stuff and, um, you know,

I, I agree. I think it's just helping them understanding like what they're getting into,

like, not that it's like, you got to prepare yourself because like, you know, this is,

this is no joke, but you know, there is like the internet is just a different place and you know,

you just have to understand what you're getting into and, you know, have that confidence. I love

that word confidence that you used Asia, um, to be able to navigate that, you know, the confidence

that, you know, the people that come into your chat, like they don't define you. Um, and, you know,

learning to navigate that, but then also again, to what Asia said, you know, the importance of,

we need each other. We were created for community. We were created for relationship and finding that

network of people that you can, you know, go to for encouragement, um, for advice, um, for prayer,

you know, as you're stepping into this space is so necessary as well. Um, and so, yeah, for anyone

who's starting new, like I would want them to understand like what they're getting into and

like, you know, to understand, to have the confidence to step into it, but also like,

you know, we need each other, you know, so make sure you find people that you can have in your life

to walk alongside you in this journey. So, yeah.

So good. Yeah. And like I was saying that the peer to peer network, the peer to peer connection,

uh, walking with somebody that's going through it. You're, you're right, uh, Amanda, that's so

helpful, um, to be open and transparent, even as, as, as, uh, Asia was saying. Awesome.

Well, Hey, listen, we, we were joking in chat on today. It was like, uh, love your mod day. That

was, that was a deep, deep dive on some of that. Um, talk to me, you know, cause we've,

we've been a little negative and a little down here. What brings you the most joy in streaming?

Like what, why do you, why do you do this? What's, what's the, uh, what's the thing that

you'd love about what you're doing? Go ahead, Asia. Great question. Okay. Well, I never know of

like, I want to like anticipate the delay and not cut someone off, but then it's just like

more, a longer, um, but I mean, so much brings me joy. I think like, um, specifically streaming

this kind of content, it, it makes me feel the most whole, I guess, because like there is a,

there is a side of me that is very creative and I like to create things, uh, no matter what the

medium is, but I love like building relationships. And so it's really cool to come alongside other

people while we're like creating something together and, um, just catch up on life.

And, but in particular, I think like some of the things I love is just like, you know, over time

people becoming like names on in chat, becoming familiar faces virtually, I guess, like people

that, um, you know, you, you know that they've been really struggling in math and they're super

excited that they got an A on their last test that they stayed for, or, um, like knowing like people's,

um, uh, like, uh, celebrations or struggles, whatever they may be like just getting to know

people beyond just like them saying hi and in chat and whatever. Uh, like, I think like one of the

sweetest moments is, um, whenever people, uh, there are viewers that, you know, they haven't been in

stream for a while for whatever reason, there's not to be a bad reason. Uh, but when they come back,

it always feels like a little reunion. Um, I just think like, that's one of the sweetest things that

like we can like see each other, even if we're in a virtual space. Uh, yeah, I just love that.

It makes it feel like it's like a real community and like, I essentially am having these people in my

home with me hanging out and doing life together. So yeah, it's sweet.

It's awesome. I think for me, um, I, I have two main things and the first one would be, you know,

streaming honestly is just a tiny, tiny part of what I do through God's squad church. Um,

you know, it's two hours of my entire, I do too much stuff. Um, but that's the church life. Um,

but well, it shouldn't be, but anyways, that's a whole other conversation. Um, but I, uh, I honestly

genuinely just love seeing people's lives being transformed by Jesus. Um, you know, I have the

opportunity and privilege to lead small groups. I actually just had one before this podcast and,

um, you know, leading worship, you know, being on stream, just having those random conversations

with people and seeing people's lives changed and being a part of that. Uh, it brings a joy that is

unexplainable. Um, it really is just so incredible. And so for me, that would be one. The other one

would be, um, just experiencing community, like developing relationships with people online and Asia,

like you are, you are one of those people, um, you know, that I've had the opportunity to get to know

and to connect with. Um, yes, you know, but getting to know people, building relationships and having

that community, um, you know, it is like it's, it's online, you know, that is true, but it is still so

good and it has been so life-giving. And so I think those two things have been just a huge source of

joy for me is, yeah, I just, it's truly a privilege to be able to be here in this space. So.

It's interesting, uh, Amanda, you were, you know, talking a little bit about, you know, the church

life and so much other things that, that you're involved in. And you're, you, you know, recently

you've, you've been more active in, in, in leading the organization. Like even at that level,

as the leader of, of, of a church and in a female, are you feeling tension? Are you feeling

kickback or issues with, with being a female leader? Like the, talk to me a little bit about that.

Oh yes. Um, so I'm a pastor at our church. Um, and you know, not everyone believes that women

can be, or should be pastors, you know, which is okay. You know, they're there, they can believe

what they want. I believe it is okay. Thus I am. Um, and so, yeah, I definitely get pushback. We would

literally have people join our discord server and, you know, I'll be showing online. And so at the top

right, you know, we have our staff at the top, right. And you know, it has my name and then in

parentheses, it has pastor. And I will literally just get someone who is brand new to our server,

who will just DM me like the second Timothy verses. And then like, almost like a drop mic moment.

And then they'll leave our server. And like, I honestly get that so much. And I'm like,

okay, like what, I bet you thought you did something there. Um, you know, and so it's just,

you know, stuff like that is a normal occurrence. And, you know, honestly, in the beginning, I was

like, nah, maybe I shouldn't be a pastor. I don't want to stir the waters. But at the same time,

I'm like, you know, I've, I've grown in my confidence in what God has called me to. And

I'm at a point where I'm like, you know, people are going to be people and, you know, that's okay

because, you know, I'm walking in the calling that God has called for me. And I'm truly learning to be

confident in that, not in myself, but in what God has called me to do. And so, but yeah, total pushback

for sure. You know, I would love, you just said, Amanda, you said two or three times what God has

called you to do. I would, can you do this? Can you like tell me right now what you feel like God's

called you to do? I would love to hear that. Oh gosh. Um, well, that's such a hard question to answer

because, you know, also I could go on about this, but I also feel like, you know, God calls us to

seasons. Like he calls us into new positions, opportunities, you know, et cetera, et cetera,

in different seasons. And so for this season, um, you know, I do, I feel God has called me,

uh, well, it's also been a long season. I've been with the church for seven years, so it's been a long

season, but you know, I feel like God has called me to, to be a leader, you know, for God's squad

church. Um, and you know, specifically that started as worship ministry. And so it's what I went to

college for and, you know, the worship and executive pastor. And so, um, but it started specifically with

worship and that's kind of grown. Um, and I've learned as I've learned more about myself and the

gifts that God has given me, that's kind of grown into this worship and executive position. Um, and

I just, I just, I just love it. It is just so fun, but yeah, like, I don't know how to answer that.

It's so packed. Um, but I don't know if that answered it actually, but, um, yeah, I don't know.

No, I love it. Like, listen, it's, it's culture puts women in a difficult position. Um, you know,

where you're, you're, you're in, in, in able to lead where there's hesitancy to lead, uh, you're,

you're marginalized, you're, you're discredited, you're, you're, you're thrown aside. Uh, I mean,

shoot, this goes all the way back to, to biblical times, the woman at the well, Mary Magdalene, uh,

Mary mother of Jesus, like there's, uh, and I just offended a whole bunch of, of Protestants

because of the Catholic reference. So forgive me, but you understand the point where the women are,

are discredited in many ways. Whereas the first people that saw Jesus were women.

Some of the more influential people, you know, let's, let's not even talk about Esther and Ruth

in the, of the old Testament. Like there's, there's incredible power that, that comes from, uh, from

the, from the female side of the, of biology. And so we, as a church, we need to understand,

we need to live in that tension of, yeah, the Bible says this, but, but we're, we're seeing this

and having that tension. I don't know. It's a bad thing. There's a lot of other attention areas

in the Bible that, that we need to dig into as, as we're seeing culture shift.

And, and, and adapt with some things. So listen, I, I love this conversation and I'm seeing even

mother goose has been saying a four or five times in chat. This is awesome. This is incredible. I love

this. Um, because, and, and, and I'm going to make an assumption here that mother goose is a woman

because her name's mother. Uh, maybe that's wrong, but, and I think so, uh, it's mother, a woman,

like she can yell at me right now on chat if she's not, but they're even talking about this

gives, uh, is empowers other women to be transparent with what they're going through

and get it, get it addressed and get on, get on top of it. Um, yeah, I, I, I have like such a burden.

They're strong in their faith. No, I was going to say mother goose. I can tell these ladies

are strong in their faith. All right. Now go ahead, Asia, talk to me.

I mean, I just have a burden for, for specifically, um, like, yeah, women who want to follow,

like want to be faithful to the calling that God specifically has called them to,

especially when like, you know, this is, doesn't speak for obviously every single Christian woman,

but like, I think there are a good amount of people in this space in like the Christian church

in general who were, you know, raised by families who, um, wanted them to be, you know, be discerning,

to be faithful to the Lord and, uh, to what he's called us to. And I think that like, when you get,

you become an adult and you're like in the world and trying to do that, you're in, you end up being

like met with so much weird opposition or just like weird tension when you're literally

just like trying to be faithful to, yeah, what God has called you to. And, um, and I just,

my heart just goes out, uh, for, I mean, for everyone that are like trying to follow the Lord's

calling, but specifically, like, I think women just have like a hard time, like feeling comfortable

doing what, what like they are convicted to do by the Lord and like faithfully trying to serve

in whatever way they can. Um, yeah. So I don't know. I just, my heart is for, for all, all of them,

all of us.

So what's, what's next for your respective ministries? Like we've, we've, we've probably

talked more about the women issue than your, than your ministries, but, but I'd love to know

what's coming up with God squad, God squad. What's coming up with, um, the, the content creation

and stuff that, that you're working on Asia, but let's, let's do Amanda first. Amanda, what's,

what's on the horizon? What, what can we expect to see from God squad church?

Um, so some things that we're doing next. Well, first we have, um, our Easter services. And so we

have, um, an awesome Easter service planned for next Saturday. Um, so we're really excited for that.

We're doing like a big invite challenge, encouraging our community to invite people to church. You know,

we're going to be doing gaming monitor giveaways at both services. And so, um, that's, yeah, we're,

we try to go all out for the big, you know, for the big, you know, Eastern Christmas, you know? Um,

and so we have our Easter services. We're doing a three day streamathon, um, at the end of April

announcing, um, our digital missionaries that we're going to be taking on as a church. We're going to

be financially supporting, um, three individuals within this online gaming space that are just

reaching people for Jesus. And so, you know, that's coming up. We're bringing back our squad con

in person this year, um, which is like a three day event where we come together for like live

worship, fellowship, all of that fun stuff. Um, so we're bringing that back. And so we have a,

we have a good year in store for God's squad church and a lot of awesome. Yeah. So I'm excited.

When is squad con? Uh, well, we're still in the process. It's going to be in the summer,

but it's, we're, it's going to be about end of July, beginning of August. I'm,

I'm currently in conversation with a venue. And so more details to come.

I want to have you on the podcast. I want to bring you back and bring TJ or whoever,

whoever you want to come back. But I want to, I want to unpack what happens when God's

squad church meets physical. Like, you know, it's so often your digital churches,

the assumption digital can't be physical, which is interesting because you can't be physical.

It's you're just not physical every week. And so even meeting, um, once a year, God's squad

doing squad con, like that's a great opportunity to build the relationships physically. That'll,

that'll connect it and extend it through digitally. Like, so I would love, and I'm sure some great

stories can come from that. So we'd love to unpack that, uh, summer fall. So I'll, I'll make a note.

We'll, I'll, I'll, uh, reach out to you. It'll be great. Um, all right. So Asia, talk to me a

on the roadmap for you. Yeah. Um, so, I mean, I feel like our, my streams will still be pretty

similar. Um, I'm having a bit of a schedule change just due to like my own work stuff.

And, um, so we'll just keep some of that same content, but, um, I'm in a unique position where

Luke and I both, uh, frostbite IV as he goes by on Twitch. Uh, we both, um, do like have our own

personal, um, channels and ministries and like focused social media effort in tandem. Uh,

and, and we also share a discord server. And so I really want to focus, or I have been like

focusing on, um, coming up with a plan to be really intentional with our shared discord server

and creating digital spaces off of Twitch, but like in, in another like focus space, uh, to,

um, hang out like virtually, whether that is like more just like getting work done together

or having some movie nights, just like more times for us to like, um, have shared time together

where we're not necessarily like live on the channel and it could be a little bit more intimate,

uh, in that way. Uh, so I'm really excited about that. And, um, I think with like, I actually think

with my schedule changing because of work, it ends up enabling me to be a little bit more involved

in our discord server, which is super awesome. And cause that's where our heart has been is like

really having a collected effort. So it's cool to, yeah, to share that with Luke and have our

communities come together. That's a good example of like two communities that are very different,

but they, uh, work really well together. Uh, but yeah, so I'm excited for what that will all

turn into in addition to like all the stuff that Luke is doing for Love Thy Nerd, uh, with, um,

the, uh, nerd mission summit. Oh, I already butchered the name NCMS, uh, summit, but, uh,

yes, nerd culture mission. Yeah. Yeah. Ministry. No, it is ministry. I don't know. Wow. Luke's

going to be so disappointed. Uh, but, uh, there's just a lot going on right now and it's all really

good things. So just being able to focus and hone in on the specific areas will be awesome. Uh,

yeah. Awesome. Well, very cool. Listen, I, I've, I've loved this conversation, even, even just

getting a better taste, a, um, some, some examples and some stories of maybe some of the difficulties

that, that, uh, that women streamers and even women in church are going through. And so, you know,

I want to take a moment here and, uh, and thank you all for, for, for doing this, for, for,

for pioneering, for, uh, carving the path for those to come behind, for setting an example for

others, uh, to follow suit. You know, it really is a shame to quote St. Bear in chat right now,

uh, that you all are going through the situation that you have this difficulties that, that you,

that you have to gear up for trolls at a higher level that you, you get people joining a discord

server just to throw a Bible verse in your face and run away like a coward. Uh, yes, I said that.

And so listen, it, and for, for those of us that are on the side watching, um, and like your mods,

however we can help in that situation, we, we want to, but I want to take a moment and to thank you

for, for the difficulties because you are setting an example for that next group that, that, that's

coming behind you. So thank you for that. And, and maybe it's, it's, you know, love your mod day and

it's, it's respect the women who are on this day and we can, we can make it whatever days we want.

Like it's, it's, it's, it's whatever. But let me ask this, you know, it's just as, as we're landing

the plane, as we're wrapping up here, any closing thoughts, um, Asia, any closing thoughts as we're

wrapping up? Um, I just am always encouraged to, or I don't know, just, it's awesome to have these

kinds of conversations and, um, like, you know, not, not for the sake of like speaking into, um,

a vacuum or, you know, just like talking to the same people, but the same topics. Um, I think it's

really interesting that it is actually life-giving, like the conversations that me and me and Amanda

have now been on two different, um, interviews talking about similar or like a topic similar to

this. And, um, it's been cool to have those conversations with each other that sharpens our

own like personal ministries and also how we are able to encourage, uh, each other around us.

And also people that we're having this conversation that are like not women, um, being able to, um,

just impart some perspective there. And it's, it's, I think is encouraging to them to be able to, um,

be able to serve in the better in their specific ministries. And so I just think that's a really

cool ripple effects. And I think that is like a picture of the Lord, like, like how the Lord

intended a community to be is that we, you know, sharpen each other by building those relationships

and, um, speaking life into each other. Um, so yeah, I just, I'm thankful for the opportunity.

Building relationships and speaking life even digitally. So well said.

Well, I, again, just want to thank you for this opportunity. And, you know, I think having these

conversations is so good and needed. And like Asia said, life-giving, um, you know, we're, we're not

going to see more women stepping up and being celebrated unless these conversations are happening.

And so, um, I'm just really glad and thankful to not just be a part, but just to see them happening.

And so thank you for the opportunity. And, you know, I just want to encourage all the ladies out

there, you know, if, if you have been thinking about stepping up into streaming or content creation

or ministry online, um, and you've been hesitant, um, you know, if this is what God is calling you to do

it, you know, get it girl, you got it. You know, um, we, we need more women stepping up. We do. We

really, really do. And so, um, yeah, those are my thoughts. Oh, very cool. Well, Hey, you know,

we're going to wrap up here, uh, with ladies night, we're going to bring it to a close girl power,

uh, go whatever else is, is there with that. But thank you, Asia. Uh, thank you, Amanda, for jumping

on the podcast and we're going to continue on. We're coming to a close here in the next week or so.

With season four here of Jesus gamers and church, the church digital podcast, but we've got to,

I think we've got a couple episodes left. We've got to check some scheduling things, but you know

what? We're, we're excited to learn what we've been learning about gamer culture, nerd culture,

and, and how the church, how we can reach people, uh, through this gaming space. And so we, once again,

thank the two ladies for jumping on, by the way, if you got hate mail, you know, it's funny. I've done,

I did a ladies, uh, thing before, um, women in ministry. And it was interesting that the women

that were actually on the podcast with me got hate as a result of what they said on the podcast.

Um, if you got hate, uh, Jeff at the church.digital and my cell phone number is literally

four, eight, four, three, two, four, eight, seven, two, four. Uh, you can send whatever hate my way

on this, but leave the ladies alone, let them do what God's called them to do. And we're going to,

we're going to land a plane right there. Thank you very much for jumping on the church digital

podcast. We'll see you next week on the show. Y'all have a good day.