EP276 - Bernie Mapili, Andy Mage, and The New "The Church Digital"

Welcome to the church digital podcast. Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological

innovations within the church, but more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper

questions. Is disciple making possible digitally? How should we approach the digital mission

field? Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? Oh, and where does the metaverse

and artificial intelligence fit into all of this? Whether you're a big or small church,

an established church, or a startup church plant, the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like

yours learn to be a multiplying church digitally and physically. Our heart? That churches like

yours would discover a new founded focus on disciple making that will revolutionize your church.

And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. All right, right up here, right off the bat,

episode 276 of the Church Digital Podcast, and it is good to be back. It is great to be back.

Let me tell you, I missed you all. You know, I hear through emails and social media,

historically, you know, for many of you, the planters, the digital pastors, the digital

planters, the digital practitioners, the digital missionaries, those of you that are out there in

that space, how much of an encouragement we've been able to be through the Church Digital, through

the blogs and the podcasts and the books, and even through the other channels that God blessed me to

have access to over the years. And it's been, it's been an encouragement, you know, I say this, it's been

encouragement for me to know that many of you, we were able to help. And bluntly, as I stepped back over

this past six months, I took a, I took a break, it's about to go get into it a little bit. As I took that

break, it was, it was you, it was the people, it was you that I missed. It was, it was the stories of life

change. It was the, the conversations about what God is doing through, through your ministry and about

new innovative ideas that, that you've, you've had. And it was, it was really, you was the people

that I missed the most. And so I am, I am blessed, I am honored to be sitting here in this chair once

again, episode 276, continuing on the Church Digital Podcast for the next season. So thank you so much

for graciously allowing me to come back in after a six month break, sabbatical, vacation. I don't know,

I don't know what you want to call this thing. After 25 years of ministry, I'll be honest, I never

have actually had sabbatical, barely have had a vacation here or there. I'm borderline workaholic.

And well, to be honest, and maybe we get into this in greater detail at a later point, but

uh, on the, somewhere around June, 2023, um, I had a break, like a mental break, a, a physical break,

a, um, if it could be broken, uh, it broke an emotional break in my, in my life. Um, my,

my body broke. I have, um, I have diabetes type two. I have arthritis in my, in my knees and,

in legs and feet. Uh, I have bad feet pain with the, the diabetes. Um, I've, there's a number of

other ailments. I don't want to make this medical one-on-one, but let's just say I'm 46 years old

and I walk around with a cane. Um, that's what it looks like for me to get from point A to point B

physically. Like, um, things went south for me, uh, quickly. Um, there was an emotional break. You

know, my, my friend John Pyle just recently did a, a podcast. He preached a sermon talking about,

um, little T traumas in our life and how, you know, even something simple as, Hey,

how am I going to pay this bill? Um, how am I going to pay my mortgage? That's not a,

that's not a major trauma, but it's a minor trauma. When you get enough minor traumas in my life,

all of a sudden it's a, it's a major thing. And, um, summer 23 brought the Reed family into a major

trauma situation. Um, and there was a, there was a break. I mean, it was minor traumas that contributed

and piled up into a, a major situation. And, uh, and, and as a result of it, honestly, I had to step

back from leadership and, and, and get my family, get my life, get, get everything figured out.

And so I did it. I, I stepped back from the organization that I founded and was, was leading

at that moment. Actually it was two, it was the church digital and the second, the digital church

network. Um, and so stepped back from that. Uh, and after six months of, of figuring out

what life looks like, what ministry looks like, what family looks like. And after working through

multiple different business models and, and, and, uh, meeting some new friends, um, man,

I'm excited about 2024 and what's in store. We've got some new relationships coming out and you're

going to, you're going to hear some things in the podcast and future conversations, future podcasts

talking about resi and push pay and, and, and glue and start church. And there's a lot of really

awesome things coming up in the life of Jeff and the life of church, the church digital as well.

You're going to, you're going to hear us talk about a new logo, a new website that's brand

coming up for the, for the church digital is where I would not say the vision is changing,

but, but I do think there's more clarity and I think there's more people that are owning larger

pieces of it. Um, I never wanted to build an organization that was centered around me.

I was very vocal about that. I did not want the church digital centered around me. And I love the

fact that 2024, um, we're seeing this happen where the church digital, um, is, is becoming renewed

without it being centered around me. As a fact, I'm not even the guy that's leading the organization.

I now have a boss with the church digital who gets to tell me what to do, uh, which actually

is a highlight of my life. I enjoy that very much. And so in this podcast, um, we're, we're

talking about the new, the church digital. We've got, um, Bernie Mapili, who's now the CEO of the

church digital. And we've got Andy Mage, who's the COO operating director of the church digital.

And you've got me, Jeff Reed, the founder, the old guy, the guy, if you're watching on

YouTube, shaved his beard, he's got this like gray scruff on his face, new look. Uh, but the

fact is, uh, what you, what I hope you hear is the same heart for digital discipleship, for

doing something different digitally, to reach a different person, to empower a different

leader, to disciple in different ways. Uh, but at the heart of this aligning to what Christ

has called us disciple makers in churches to be biblically. And so here we are, Andy Mage,

Bernie Mapili, myself, Jeff with the chat with, uh, Jeff Reed with the church digital. That was

weird. Jeff with Jeff Reed with the church digital, uh, in a public case, in a conversation I'm

calling the new, the church digital. Here you go. All right. So Jeff here, let's dig into episode

276, the new, the church digital. That may be repetitive. The new church digital, the new,

the church digital, the new TCD. Let's, let's go with that. We, um, so it took a break. Like

we talked about, uh, on the podcast, uh, took a little vacation, you know, I'd been a, I haven't

had a sabbatical in, um, well, ever, you know, I'd work in all these churches and they would talk

about sabbaticals and never actually, you know, experienced one. And so kind of forced myself to,

to take a little break. Um, and it's awesome because you got this like organization. I won't

call myself a massive organization, but there was a lot of stuff that was moving. There was a lot of

moving parts and it's like, you know, I got to step away. I got to take some time, but what,

what are we going to do? And, and it was, it was beautiful to see this team come together.

And so we're going to talk about, you know, some of the pieces, but, but right here, the two guys

that I've got in this interview, in this conversation right now, uh, Bernie Mapili and Andy Mage, man,

both of them stepped up, uh, in, in, in a big way. Like we were already having conversations about

bringing these two guys, uh, into, into leadership. And, uh, well, just to be honest, it was like,

hey, you know, we were going to like onboard you guys slowly and, uh, forget that. Like, let's, uh,

let's, uh, accelerate the timeline a little bit because that's, that's just the way that I roll.

And so Bernie, Andy, y'all, thanks for jumping here on the podcast.

Welcome to the deep end, I guess. Right.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, that was weird.

Oh, crowd. Let me in.

So Andy's, Andy's been on the, the show three, four, five times. I feel like you've co-hosted

this thing.

I've co-hosted. We did an entire run on Twitch.

Oh, that's right. Oh, that's right. You were all over that.

Yeah. And then I was on a couple of times before that. And then, I don't know. I've been

in and amongst TCD and DCN for a couple of years now, I think.

Yeah. Do we say DCN anymore? Like, I'm not, I'm not totally. No, no. We'll talk. We'll talk.

We'll get there at some point. I'm sure. Don't want to, don't let the cat out of the bag

too much. Cause we are talking about the new, the church digital. So there's gotta be

something old that is, is going out with that. But thanks for that. And Bernie, Bernie's a new

to this, to this concept, new to the podcast, at least new to the, to the public facing.

So Bernie, I'll set the stage. I'll tell the story. Bernie, this is maybe April of 23 reaches

out to me. Maybe it's May, June, somewhere second quarter and says, Hey, let's jump on a call.

And I've met Bernie once in my life, maybe had five words conversation with him. Really not,

not deep, but Bernie's like, Hey, like I'd like to talk with you. And so, um, I think we met on

discord because Bernie lives on discord. And, uh, and so jump, jump on this discord call with Bernie

and, and Bernie who I've, like I said, never really met before. He says, Jeff, you and I are the exact

same person, just in different space. That's scary. And, uh, and so like, I'm looking at Bernie and I'm

like, you don't really look like me. You don't have the long goatee. Well, I don't have much of

a goatee left anymore. If you're watching on YouTube, you know that, but, um, you know, at the

heart and just, so we started like having this conversation and really digging in. And, um, I

couldn't believe, like, I would say, honestly, and I'll say this publicly, Bernie Mapilli is the

closest person I've ever met to understanding like the digital strategies and the concepts and the

things that, that, um, that I'm talking about, like the ability for me to trust a person at

the drop of a hat, um, and his, his posturing on, on everything. I don't want to make myself

like, uh, egotistical here, but oh my gosh, he's so easy to work with and so aligned in strategy.

Like it's, it's been a beautiful thing. So, all right, Bernie, thanks for jumping on the

podcast. We're not going to talk to you anymore for the rest of the show.

No, I'm later. Nice, nice conversation. Great talk. Um, Bernie, tell us a little bit

about, cause they, they know Andy. Andy was co-hosting through like all of season five.

The Andy's been around, um, uh, Bernie talk, talk to us a little bit. Tell, you know, tell

them a little bit about who you are, man. Yeah. Uh, Bernie, I go by Romans on the internet

and, uh, I am your business guy who loves Jesus. And I think that's the way I'm currently

pitching myself to the internet world, uh, that, uh, yeah, I think the secret ability

that God has given me is to understand how businesses work in many different environments.

And for the past six plus years, I love things digital. I've been diving deep into it. I got

a strong lean into the video gaming space, but anything on the internet is definitely my jam

these days. And yeah, I saw, I saw Jeff making all these waves and everywhere I'd go, he was

there and not just there as an attender, like I was, but he was like a guy in the background,

make things happen. So I just wanted to get to know Jeff and see what you're up to. Uh,

and I'm definitely not a guy to usurp or take someone's position. I just wanted to come alongside

and learn with you. And then you wanted a vacation. So then it was like another example of like men in

black where I thought I'd, maybe I'll make a partner. Maybe, maybe I'll make some friends

and no agent K was looking for retirement or in this case a vacation. And he was like,

I'm just agent. I'm not even an agent yet. I'm just a guy. Andy's already agent J and then I'm

guy below him. I don't even know. I'm like one of those aliens walking around in the background and

like, you know, Andy's over here shooting dudes with his tiny little baby gun.

You're in the back smoking a cigarette going, Zuga!

So I just wanted to join the party, but, uh, you know, I'm here to serve the Lord and,

and here I am. So glad to be here.

You know, it's beautiful, Bernie. Back when we, back when I started the church digital in 2018,

2017, um, like I literally, I remember buying the domain name, uh, 2017 at a push pay conference

in a downtown Disneyland and, uh, and, and just had this vision of, um, doing, uh, creating an

organization, a comp company that was, was centered around digital discipleship. And, and, and honestly,

like some of the immediate feedback I got from people that were in the spaces, Jeff, why are you

calling it the church digital? Call it Jeffrey.com. Like, you know, make it about you and make it about

promoting yourself. And, you know, immediately it was, that's, that's not what I'm doing. Like this

thing, this thing has grounds and potential to be bigger than me. This is not just Jeffrey.com. This

is the opportunity to represent what the church can and should look like and will look like in digital

space and metaverse and, you know, everything else that that's down the road. And so, you know,

for me, it was not about elevating and positioning and, and, and trying to get to the, to the higher

run myself. And, and it's, you know, over, over time, it's tried to been, okay, how can I help

others get in positions? How can I help, uh, platform others and make other ideas better? Whether

it's co-writing a book with Dr. John, uh, with that one, or whether it's, it's helping others through

blogs and podcasts and creating a podcast network and, and even looking and seeing, okay, what are my

strengths and weaknesses as a leader? And how can I find people around me that, that can,

that can compliment and fill in the, fill in the gaps? Um, I've run, you know, I'm a serial

entrepreneur. I've, I've run, well, shoot at this point, I probably have started seven, eight businesses

and nonprofits in, in my life. And, and, um, to be honest, like I'm a great starter. I'm a horrible

maintainer. And so coming along with somebody like business acumen, like, like Andy, or excuse me,

like Bernie, uh, to, to be able to maintain that and elevate that beyond what I'm capable

of. It's like, why, why would I not want to involve myself with somebody like that? Or even

some of the, some of the quality work that, that Andy and guys like Tom, what they're creating and

producing, they're able to move into that space and are able to start to elevate ideas that now I don't

have to, I can start to be more niche and targeted at what I'm saying, knowing that there are others

that, that are complimenting the overall work that I could do by myself and are able to cover a much

larger base. And so working with guys like, like Bernie, I look at the screen, Bernie, and I see

Romans like to the left on the screen. And so I keep wanting to say Romans, but it's Bernie, uh,

Bernie and Andy, uh, totally and completely. And so like we, we, we, the plan was, uh, was that I was

going to be the, the, the founder, the, the organizational leader of, of the church digital.

And, um, with that Bernie was going to be coming on as, as an integrator of sorts, uh, as a, as a,

you know, a CFO, the financial guy, we were jokingly calling him the director of revenue, kind of making

him, you know, some, some of the, the, the, the money piece of that. Um, and then, you know, uh,

operations, uh, would, would fall under Andy. And then when, when I had the, the break in the

situation was like, all right, I need, I need a break. I need to disconnect. I did. I let go of

the organization and with it, Hey, Bernie, how'd you like to run this thing? Um, and honestly,

the conversation probably was not much different than that. It was, uh, very much, Hey, looking

around the table, like there was a stint where even Andy was, was trying to manage some of that,

but with everything else that, that Andy was doing, uh, it, it didn't make sense. And so Bernie

stepped in to, to lead the church digital and amongst of all of this change. We'll get into it

in a little bit. But seriously, just up front, it's been a pleasure working with these two guys

that are here and the other leaders that we've brought into space that we'll get into

here in a little bit. So any thoughts on that?

Bernie was right guy, right place, right time. And a quick little story. I had no clue who Bernie

was. I knew of Romans 10 v 12, 10 v 2, sorry. Yeah, 10 v 12, 10 v 2 through various and sundry

different. I don't know what 10 verse 12 is. Sorry, man. I can probably look it up.

10 v 9.

Yeah, 10 v 9. I know. The interesting thing is so Expo, let me paint a picture for you.

I'm a theater of the mind type things. We are at Exponential 2022. I am hanging out with a

bunch of crazies from Lux Digital Church and from a number of other digital enterprises.

Jeff is holding his pre-conference powwow for the Church Digital. We're doing a whole bunch

of stuff, bunch of keynote speakers, bunch of things. And then all of a sudden, this guy,

Bernie, shows up at this dinner that Jeff has in downtown Orlando. I was like, oh, who's this

guy? And all of a sudden, our good buddy, Mark Lutz, walks over and gives him a hug. And

they start chatting. And I was like, cool. So I sat down with Bernie at a table and we talked

for like an hour. And it was like, oh, this guy's pretty rad. The next night, literally,

we get done with like this marathon session. And all of a sudden, we're driving to Bernie's

house in the middle of the woods in a swamp in Florida. And it's like, first of all, am I

going to die? Second of all, like, no, I got there. And it's like, no, this house is pretty

rad. And then we did like a live church service from Bernie's house. And all of a sudden,

Jeff rocks up without a voice because he'd been talking for 72 hours straight. And we're

all like being friends. And it's like, cool. That was right there. If you guys look back

at it, those were the seeds of this podcast. That was what, nine months ago? That was the

seeds of everything that we're doing right now. And it was pretty awesome.

Yeah, that was March, April 23, not 22. But the heart of that and everything else was accurate.

And it's funny, like, that's the camaraderie. That's the heart of what digital network, church

network was supposed to be and wanted to be and what the church digital will be. It's the

unification of ideas and the united of crazies, the uniting of crazy people together towards the

common cause of Christ and empowering and strengthening and platforming them to do what God has called

them to do. And so like, to me, that was, that was another I would totally agree. And, and, you

know, I'm going to build off what you just said. The best part of that 96 hour period that was

exponential 2023 was by the end of it. I didn't have a voice. I mean, literally, I could not talk

more than 15 seconds in a row. And so it was not the Jeff. I mean, once again, quite literally,

it was not the Jeff Reed show. It was other people stepping up and speaking in because my voice was

literally gone. It was funny. I actually left the conference early because I had to go catch a plane.

I was going on a trip to Israel, which is ironic in this moment. But the, the, the fact was, was that

I didn't even finish it off. I handed the notes to, to Joey Santos and I had Mark do some things and

others. And I was like, Hey guys, I need you to land the plan on this conference. And so once again,

it wasn't about me, it was about empowering others and equipping others to get into it. And I think

that's a, it's a very important lesson for it, for a leader to be able to build something beyond even

what they can do here. And I love, and that's one of the reasons I love working with these two is

because Andy, Bernie, like they see that, um, and, and how we can empower other leaders to come

alongside us. And even, you know, some of the other leadership team, Jason Morris and, and, and

Layton and, uh, and Roz and Nicole and so many others are, are involved, uh, Stunami, uh, so many

others are, are involved in this thing from day to day, Tom. And so having them doing what they're

doing and contributing is such, such a good thing. So, all right, well, let's, let's get into this a

little bit. I want to, want to talk about maybe what some of the church digital is, is coming and

what's, what it's evolving into. So, Hey, we've got this, we've got this new brand maybe. Yeah.

I know we'd have a new brand. It's there, right? Like we can say that we have a new brand and it

is somewhere that sits on my desk as I stall for time to pull it back up because I had closed the

thing. You see, we should have rehearsed this and we didn't rehearse it. That's, that's on me. We

should have. All right. On, on, on three, do you want to give me like a, like a drum roll or

something? Drum roll? Yeah. There it is, ladies and gentlemen, the new, the church digital. Now

what's awesome is this is a podcast, so no one can actually see this. You're not wrong. Oh crap.

Well, it'll be in the show notes too, right? If you're watching this on YouTube, you're happy. If

you, if you're not watching this on YouTube, swing over to YouTube or check out the show

notes. We'll put a link in the show notes. I've just been doing, I've been doing so many

YouTube shows lately, man. Oh gosh. Awesome. So, Hey, no, we're excited to roll out the, the,

the new brand of the church digital. And so we've got a new website that's in works. Um, and

we're hopefully going to see this launch very soon, but more than just a pretty new cross

and a little more eight bit digitized look, as opposed to what I'm told is the more dated

podcast symbol look that we had before. Um, I do, there may be a little sarcasm in that.

We may want to dig into that. I've got to, I got to let go of some stuff. Maybe, maybe a

little bit. I just, I'm going to diagnose myself in that moment. That was a little more

jaded than I meant it to come out of my mouth, but, um, no, I do. I'm excited about the new

look. I love change. And if, if we need to adjust some things to be able to get more relevant

and try to get in front of more people, um, man, with some of the stuff that God's opening

up this year, shoot, if I got, if I got to let go of a logo, let go of a logo, who gives

a crap? Um, so it's, it's, it's a great thing. Uh, but more than the leadership, man, like

there's, there's a new perspective towards doing things. Like I know, uh, man, I'm really

excited about some of the stuff that, that, um, Jason Morris, J Mo is commonly known here

within New York. Uh, some of the stuff that he's doing with the movement system, um, we're,

we're, we're unifying and creating our discipleship process. You know, it's been a great relationship,

uh, with new thing network and, and how they're utilizing the movement system and the church

digital is really starting to, uh, continue that on and, and build it out and modify it

to work better in, in digital and, in metaverse space. And so, you know, I know Andy, Bernie,

I mean, you guys have taken some of that with, um, with J Mo here and gone through that man.

Any, any feedback or thoughts from you on, on what that movement system's looking like?

It is so interesting stepping into something like new thing and stepping into established

things that new thing has, because you look at, you look at everything that they have done

for however many years, new things been around what, nine, 10 years, something like that.

And they have some pretty established patterns, but this digital thing, this is kind of the,

the wild, wild west. It's the new frontier and empowering people like Jason Morris, empowering

people like Layton, empowering the people that, that really have their, their fingers in the

dirt on this one is really cool because there's a, there's a lot of innovation happening there.

There are literally meetings that are happening. Well, essentially every other week where we're,

we're hashing out, not like, Oh, what platform should we use? But instead, how do we reach

more people for Jesus? We'll let the chips fall where they may. And we are strictly focused on the

discipleship aspect of it. And I think Jeff, to your point, you know, starting this back in 2018,

yeah, that was, that was the idea at the very beginning of the church digital, empowering people

to make more disciples, to continue on to reach, you know, reach all nations. But I think it took us

up till this point as a church community, like as God's capital K kingdom to realize that the tools

are there and the tools are pretty ubiquitous. And we no longer have to have the conversation of how to

get a stream up or how to do this or that, because that's, that's pretty much everywhere. Now we get to

actually do the fun work of, okay, how do I take people from where they were to meeting Jesus to now

turning into actual disciples? And that right there, I credit Jason and I credit Layton for everything

that they're doing under the church digital sort of banner to really propel this forward. And I'm super,

super stoked for the next three to six months, uh, with everything that they are developing. And then, oh,

by the way, with some of our partnerships that we're able to ship a lot of that, that mindset into people

like glue, people like, uh, start church, even we were just talking about them and some other sort of, uh, uh,

assorted responsibilities around that we're able to give this, this, this contextual information to

and say, okay, go into your communities and make disciples. Here you go.

Andy said, there's actually what I took from the class is he contextualize it. I think the longest

time I'll go through seasons of running Bible study groups in and out, but it felt more like I was a

caveman who didn't understand what fire was. And I'm just like, oh, warm, warm. And, and, and so we'd

enjoy the fire that's there. And sometimes the fires are sometimes, uh, but now, and I run it tonight

will be the first night. I got three guys that I've discipled and I haven't discipled in probably four

or five years that we're going to reconnect, go through some discipleship stuff or go through some

Bible study stuff. But whether they know it or not, they're going through the program that JMO,

that JMO is teaching and, and we'll see where they stand. Cause I don't think they necessarily

want to do it, but they all want to be, they all want to elevate their Christian game, if you will.

And that's why they're meeting not only just for the fellowship, but I could see them very well in short

order, uh, having all three of these guys going from, uh, consuming the Bible to participating and

running a group of their own.

I love that. Um, you know, it's, it's one of the podcasts we're working on right now

is, um, you know, I'll, I'll give away one of the punchlines. It's, uh, Matt Welty. He's been

on the podcast a couple of times. He's director of technology at Crossroads. Crossroads is a

big church, Ohio. Are they Cincinnati? Andy, do you know somewhere outside of Cincinnati?

I think just outside of Cincinnati, multi-campus. I know they're in Kentucky as well. Like they're,

they're kind of multi-sided all over the place. Um, but I saw him speak at the church it network

here. It was in West Palm beach, maybe back in November. And, um, and I, so I'm, I'm forgetting

the exact stat, but the heart of what the stat that he quoted was, was that they actually documented,

um, I mean, essentially what it was, was that everybody misses, nobody attends church for,

for weeks a month, you know, a hundred percent anymore. Um, and so like of the people,

when they miss church, those that watch online and, and engage in digital relationships,

they actually scored it out. And I'm going to get Matt on cause I actually want him to say the exact

words here. But those that engage online had a higher level of discipleship within their life

than those that only engaged in physical space. Like if you're, if you're only looking at physical

church involvement, uh, like if you're a physical church, I'm not talking digital church planting,

but if you're a physical church doing ministry, um, complimenting and adding digital to that physical

will help your people score higher. And it's not that it's a checklist, but it will get them

to have a deeper understanding of Christ and the gospel than if you just isolated and depended on

doing it in, in physical space. And what's amazing, I, I said on LinkedIn, I guess maybe a couple of

months ago that, you know, it felt like 2023, that was the year that the rest of the world fought

against the disruptors. Yep. Because I'm looking at the, the, the, this, the, the virtual reality,

the decrease in that blockchain and crystal crypto, the decrease in that artificial intelligence is the

savior. And it's the antichrist both at the same time. Like, you know, there's been so much,

at least from a technological standpoint, everybody's got to get back in the, in the, in the office

building, no, no more remote work. Um, you know, the disrupt 23 has been the year of fighting against

a disruptor and, and the, all those disruptions potentially can bring good things and can help.

It can compliment what's happening. It doesn't have to, uh, disrupt from that. And so we're talking

about discipleship systems and, and doing that, like adding something like the movement system or

even a discipleship where, Hey, you know what, we're gonna, we're gonna teach you and you're gonna teach

somebody else. We were talking earlier about kicking people out of the nest, making them do

their own thing and, and, and equipping them to, to multiply and to tell others. Now, what a, what a

beautiful idea, uh, as we wean people off, you know, biblically wean them off the milk and get them

on, you know, stakes, digital stakes or whatever we're calling it. Maybe that's what we need to call it.

I love a digital stake, digital stake. Um, that's gotta be cheaper than a physical stake, right?

Probably right now. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, and so, you know, I'm buying it,

but you know, Andy teased, uh, some things that are happening with glue, uh, and, uh, man, we're,

we're really excited. We're going to do a podcast here in a couple of weeks on this, but how to take the

movement system and how to pair it and connect it, how to take discipleship and get it connected into

what's happening with a lot of the Explorer campaigns that glue's running, like he gets us and some of

the other things that are coming up. And, uh, and we've been working with, uh, Megan Carter over at,

uh, church, um, church anywhere, first capital Christian Tyler. I think Megan's been on the podcast.

Uh, Tyler's yeah, Megan's been on. Um, but, um, and, and, uh, Andy's been doing some things.

We'll talk about that in a little bit, but, um, you know, Megan and some of the things that,

that she brings, uh, into the process, uh, some of her, her wisdom from, um, from a mental health

capacity. Uh, she's currently been trained, recently trained by the American association

of Christian counselors, bringing that into the digital space, into, um, what we've been doing

with, he gets us, you know, I, I, I don't want to tease it, but I'm just gonna, I'm going to say it

like we're literally launching a program. The church digital is, uh, where we're helping people

that want to be digital missionaries within. He gets us. You see, historically you've had to work

with churches to, to get access to. He gets us. He gets us. It's this campaign marketing campaign

where they take people who have spiritual questions and get them connected to, to God,

right. And answer those spiritual questions. And so you've got explorers, people that have spiritual

questions that are exploring the idea of Christ and the, the, the glue would connect churches,

uh, and then the church would recruit responders to answer the spiritual questions. So an explorer

would ask a question to a responder. And, um, well, what's, what's happened is, is that there are all

these churches all over the, the, the country, but the demand of explorers is far greater than what

the churches are. Um, and especially because churches are primarily interested in like 20

miles around their physical location. And so if you look at the United States, the heat map of where

all the explorers are in just the quote unquote, little dots, hundreds of dots, thousands of dots,

but little dots, because they're only interested in the physical proximity of those that can attend

the church physically on Sunday morning, like the, the platform, um, the concept really struggles.

And so the church digital coming alongside saying, Hey, we know how to like make disciples and have

conversations. We can talk about evangelism digitally. We can use our thumbs to, to text,

to type, uh, to, to engage people, to pray with people, to, to help them even at a digital level,

get connected to and answer spiritual questions and get them routed to a, to a physical church in

their area, or maybe even a digital church that doesn't care where they live and can reach them,

reach them anywhere. Well, the people that glue got really excited about that. And we,

the church digital, we're really excited about that as well. And so we're going to be teasing that

here in, in, in a couple of weeks. Um, I was not planning on, on announcing that right here,

but dang, I'm so excited about that. It's like, what the, I got, if you're going to do the church

digital, Hey, you know, what's the church digital, the church digital is right there, man.

Yep. We're, we're, we're creating a movement grounded in the movement system,

um, within arguably one of the largest, uh, marketing campaigns for Christ on the planet

today. And so guess what? I don't even listen. I can't even tell you what the URL is that I want

to drive you to, uh, look for it in the show notes, but if you're interested in this, we'll be talking

about it. We're going to make a lot of noise, believe me coming up, but we're going to

have, uh, more information for you on help you all get connected. If you're, whether your church wants

to or not, uh, if you're interested in getting connected, uh, and, and helping answer spiritual

questions and doing digital ministry, um, we want you come on board and come be a part of what we're

doing through the church digital. Um, awesome. And so listen, that's been a lot of what JMO's, uh,

been up to, um, Bernie, you've been working a lot with, um, with flat cap with Layton.

You want to talk a little bit of maybe it was some of the stuff he's been working on.

Layton is, he's connecting a lot of dots. Just recently, he spoke to, uh, some folks,

I'm getting his story confused. It's another story heard today, but his was folks overseas

where they can only talk about Jesus digitally because any other means can lead to arrest and

you can lose everything if they, if you do it in person. Uh, and we've heard this story a couple

of times. Uh, we've met with some other folks, Jeff and I have met with some other folks where

they, that's their whole ministry because in the country in the Middle East that they operate in,

it's illegal to evangelize and you have to already be a Christian to talk about Jesus things.

So then the question is, how do you tell new people about Jesus? Well, it's illegal. You can't

unless you're digital. So digital is the only way to do it safely. And, uh, if you do the right

ways through VPN, if you're in that country, it gets real tricky. If you're still in that country,

it's still kind of risky to do evangelization, even if you're digital, but the folks that Lane

were talking to, they, they need us. They need a digital solution because they want to tell people

about Jesus. They, they, they feel the call and they don't want to lose. Uh, and it's not just like

losing a little bit. It's like, they don't want to lose everything. They don't want to be thrown in jail.

Uh, to, to just talk about Jesus's name. So digital solutions can do that.

And then they don't have to be afraid. Um, they can be as open as they want. So, uh, that,

that's one piece that Lane's talking to. And then the other part is Layton, he's on,

he's on the campaign trail to, to hear people let him speak on how churches can stream on the internet

from a baseline perspective. So Layton's, uh, changing his content. You'll see soon where he's

going to be openly telling folks, uh, about how to baseline industry standardization of how to do digital

things for the church, uh, for your church or outside of your church. But his target is mostly

going to convince churches to, uh, join, join the digital frontier and more than from what COVID

made you do, but do it from more than, uh, uh, the baseline expectation of doing things digital

has moved up since COVID. But a lot of folks assume that's gone down or doesn't exist anymore.

And actually it's, it's continuing to rise and that's going to be Lane's job is to reach that baseline expectation.

Of course, all those folks who want to go above that, uh, it takes more than what Layton will

be throwing out there generally because everyone's, uh, context and city and people group is different.

Uh, but, uh, Layton will be, uh, hot on the trails in that.

Yeah. Layton, it was so interesting. Layton blew me away the other day, um, where he, uh, he put in

discord with that. He, he connected with a friend of mine, uh, Simon Dirks. Um, and it's like,

hey, and, and, you know, shared some of the stuff that Simon's working on. What was so interesting,

um, is, is that, you know, I've never, I've never met Simon. Uh, Simon lives in Germany.

And so, you know, Layton relationally, digitally without me introducing connected with a guy that

I knew sermon Simon. And so I've been talking with Simon, um, for, for a couple of years now over

different things. And, and, you know, there, I didn't realize this, but, you know, Simon's planting,

uh, and starting, uh, uh, uh, network for, for digital churches. Essentially Simon's doing the

thing that we did through digital church network. And, uh, and then Layton, and we're going to have

Simon on the podcast. I've been trying to get him and another guy on the, on the podcast for

six months or a year. Like we just haven't, it's been a year now, but we haven't been able to

figure out time zones, believe it or not. Like time zones is the hardest thing. But, um, you know,

the, the, you know, the fascinating thing is Layton's like, Hey, why don't we,

why don't we work together? Like, can, can, can we, the church digital, can we resource and help and,

and be an aid to this, to this network that's starting up in Germany? And, and, you know, I actually,

I don't run the organization anymore, so I don't have like the authority to actually say yes, but

heck yeah. Well, like, why, why aren't we, why should, why should we not like, let's,

let's get a kingdom win globally and come alongside some of our other brothers who think crazy and

sisters, uh, that are on another continent. How can we help the digital church expand in, in Germany?

Or how can we, how can we help digital churches reach some of, um, some of the areas where you

cannot have, have physical churches meeting? Like what would it, what would it look like in Iraq and

Iran and Afghanistan and in China, if we started to, to see churches exist digitally because there's so

much, uh, pressure and train strain and, and actually like murder, like they will kill you, uh, if in,

in Iraq. And so digital is the way to make that happen. And how, why, how can we start to resource

and help people in that space to understand more of what digital can be? And so like the future of

the church digital, uh, for us, not only to, to create movements here in America, but resource

and vision, uh, resource and vision people outside of the U S globally and come alongside them of what's

happening, man, it's starting to really look beautiful. What 20, 24 can be. Okay. So we've been

talking about the Avengers. We've not been talking about the Avengers, but we've been talking about

this idea of doing digital Avengers and about how the team that we've been building through the,

through the church digital, how it can start to step in and maybe avenge something. I don't know.

The analogy probably breaks down, but Bernie, the Avengers is your heart, man. You want to talk a little

bit about that? Well, as a nerd of things, uh, yeah, I, I always love the idea and I think Andy helped, uh,

form this as well. I just, I love the idea of calling us Avengers, I guess. Um, well, I don't, I don't know who,

Andy, did you choose who you would be? I get, I, you did. I don't recall who it was. Who was it?

I want to say for the record, we've been saying Avengers, but it's really X-Men.

Well, like somehow we, we, we all tailored towards the X-Men side.

Yeah. I think that's just because of

awesomeness and plus like they're the Avengers are played out. Like don't at me, anybody that's

listening. The Avengers are played out. Oh no. Come on. You just lost viewers ever.

Uh, yeah, that's fine. Uh, I think I ended up being something like

either Cyclops or Gambit maybe. Is that what I heard?

Oh, I like the Cyclops. I think you're like a really good leader. You're like the leader guy.

I don't know about that. I can see Gambit is a kind of a not so, not such a good guy, right? He's,

is he a good guy?

I don't know. You keep talking. I'm going to look up exactly what I am. Cause now I'm curious.

I just, I'm pretty sure Gambit isn't exactly the role model. He's like, he's kind of like...

No, yeah, no. He, he kind of, he kind of sucks. Let's just put it that way.

I think he has a movie coming out soon. So we'll see what they think. But last I checked,

Gambit isn't the, isn't the best role model, but...

Oh, okay. Here's what I, here's what I got. Somebody gave me

with Doctor Strange, which I can see, uh, or Thor, which I don't know if I get Thor. Cause I have

no hair. I'm not tall. I'm definitely not Norwegian. I'm Polish. Uh, and yeah. So I think I like the

Doctor Strange one though. That's pretty fun. You do the crossfitting though. I do do crossfit.

That's true. That is very Thor-like. Um, yeah. Yeah. Well, while you, uh, I, I assume we just

got on a Thor subject. So I'll let you figure that out. Wow. Oh my gosh. That was,

that was painful even for me. I hate it. Which superhero does that jokes? That's my guy.

Um, but anyways, at the end of the day, I, yeah. Ooh, wow. He, he does go. He has nice nails.

He tells good jokes. Uh, but, um, uh, rip, uh, for the Avengers ideas that each of us would be a

standalone. I think that's, that's the difference between the X-Men. And I think the Avengers,

the Avengers usually each one is iconic in their own right. X-Men is usually always been about the team.

Uh, each one X-Men usually gets their butt kicked on their loans, except for maybe Wolverine, but he

gets his butt kicked all the time because he has a healing factor, kind of like plot armor.

But the idea is that each of our leaders would be standalone in their own right, would be someone

respected in the space that they want to speak Jesus into. Uh, so, uh, like Leighton, we, he would

be the guy who would be the one for baseline showing churches, how to get into the digital realm

in a not so embarrassing way or above what they think is the baseline. Cause the baseline expectation

is if I stream on Facebook, we're now digital. And that, that is, that is just not the baseline

expectation anymore. That barely scratches the surface. Everyone's doing that. That's, that,

that's not really reaching anyone other than checking off a box that we did something digital.

Um, so Leighton is paving the way to speaking into that space because he's been streaming for

quite a few years now, probably as long as you, Andy, or you're probably a little bit longer than

him. You guys are somewhere, you guys are somewhere, uh, within a year or so of each other, but that

there's so much institutional knowledge, uh, from hardware, software, and just how to do it

consistently day in, day out, not go through burnout and how to find ways to make it redeeming the Lord

in the process that it's not just you, uh, glamorizing self, but glamorizing Christ. And then you have

someone else, like I'm looking at the list, um, Stacy, who has a, has a big heart for the grieving

space and more than like, when you hear grieving, you probably assume some type of loss of like a loved

one. But, uh, in just one hour conversation with Stacy, she, she is just so attuned to all the

things that can cause grieving like job loss. And I didn't have the notes, but there's like seven other

types of loss. And she's going to go through and really own that space. Cause she, for some, some,

you know, we're all different parts of the body of Christ, but somehow she gets power by dealing with

such a painful place. And I think the one lesson I learned from Stacy is you never really get over

loss. Like me losing my mom, uh, five or six years ago. You know, I would, I would tell people,

oh, it took me four years to get over it. And something in talking with Stacy is you don't

actually get over it. What happens is you learn to accept it and it becomes a part of you.

And then you, you just live with it, but you don't live with it in a way that it drags and holds you

down, but it becomes a part of it. It's almost like it merges into your being and you move on as a,

and you move on with it instead of it being this on this elephant under the rug that blurt.

And cause if you don't deal with grief, it'll come out on its own terms,

which is just something you learn as you grow older, that if you don't deal with grief,

it'll hit you when you don't want it to hit you. You won't be in control of it. You could be in a

restaurant. And I told her one funny story. Cause I thought it was cute. Is every once in a while,

I'll see a small little Asian woman. I'm like, oh my God, that's my mom. And, and she said,

Oh, those are, those are, I think she called them echoes or something, but she had some kind of name

for it. And like, she, she's like giving me context to understand what's happening that that little

Asian lady, she actually does look like my mom. If you put a photo next to the two, you'd be like,

Oh my gosh, like same small little stature, same hairstyle and all that. And it's just a,

I forgot how she, you know, I got to have more Stacey sessions, I guess, to, to understand it in a,

in a grieving expert way. But, um, it's just so nice. She has all these cool terms to give you

context and know what you're experiencing. So you're not always like, for me, I just thought it was a

cute little moment. Like every couple of years there'd just be some random lady. I'm like, oh my gosh,

I would have to look away. Cause it just makes me think of my mom too much. I gotta like,

Ooh, I gotta go somewhere else. Cause that's she's the, the mannerisms are too similar.

Um, and I dare, she, she dare not speak. And then actually sound like my mom. I like burst into tears.

This is just so cute. Um, and then other experts that we have in the room. Uh, you got Jayma, who

is like the, uh, discipleship expert, if you will. So coming up with some cool titles for the new website,

but his goal is, is, is perfecting this, uh, training manual of how disciples make disciples digitally.

And that it's not just a thing you have to do. It's a thing you want to do. And you have the tools and

and of how to do it. And it's so easy. I think the one thing I got from Jamo sports is that it's so

easy to do as long as you're intentional about it. And I think a lot of us were very unintentional

about the great commission. We wait for moments to happen. Assuming we're not a pastor like Andy,

where it just happens being a pastor, but for us, non pastors, you kind of just wait for it to present

itself. But through Jamo's course, it shows you there's intentionality where it's not like you're

always on, but you're tuned to moments that are, are open doors. And maybe you should walk through

those doors. Whereas before you're like, yeah, that's for that's some, that's Andy's job. He's the

pastor. Go get it. And I think that's like, so the wrong mentality of Christians today. It's not

the pastor is just a guy like everyone else. It's not his job to do all the Jesus things.

It's our job as Christians. Um, so there you go. Yeah. So I think it's going to be interesting

as we start to build out this Avengers team, not only of, of, of thought leaders. I mean,

cause we can listen, you can read a Jamo article all day long. Like some of, some of his concepts

and perspective is, is incredible. And so like there's, there's thought leaderships, but there's

also, um, like consultants, like how can, um, Layton come in and develop that, that base will help

your church develop that baseline for what, um, digital needs to be. How can you elevate your

game to get to that, to even just the beginning level? How do you move beyond just streaming?

And how do you really streaming of a church service and start to really utilize streaming to reach

people in, in digital space? And these are just some of the questions they're getting into, whether

it's, um, whether it's, it's Layton, whether it's, it's, uh, even some of Bernie with some of the

financial things he's bringing Andy from, from a content or from a ministry perspective.

Like there's, there's such a, an opportunity, um, Roz coming along from communications and I'm,

we're being very casual, um, you know, talking about some of these names, but just look for,

look for this opportunity to, to come alongside. We won't call it Avengers. Cause you know,

I'm pretty sure Marvel's got that term copyrighted. I'm willing to be.

We can't license. I'm pretty sure I don't want to have jail time over this. And, um, my, my dogs are

currently barking and going crazy. I don't know if you can hear that, but never get two dogs. One

dog's fine. Two is, is, is the worst if you do content online, but there's, there's an incredible

opportunity for us to come alongside the church. Um, and, uh, and now we've got also, we mentioned

earlier, some of these, uh, partnerships, you know, we're, we're talking to, uh, glue or we're doing a

lot of work with glue already through, he gets us and, and the explorers program and expanding into

other things. And we're, we're already talking with some, some other partners, start church and

others that are, are, you know, doing, um, ministry and digital space and coming alongside and kind of

helping with that. And so that's where, Hey, like, you know, some of these organizations,

missional organizations, global organizations, how can we help? What are you looking for? What

are you struggling with? And, and so, you know, I don't know if agency is the right word, but,

um, you know, especially with glue, we've been doing, uh, a lot towards this idea of how to equip

responders better. And so it would be, it'd be who of me of right now, Andy, you want to talk about,

uh, FTT and really get into, uh, from texting the testimony and, and, and what that has,

has, uh, has, uh, has looked like so far. Yeah. Uh, there, the partnership with glue has been

awesome. Uh, they have, they have drastically expanded their footprint in digital ministry in

the last, I'd say two years, but in particular, the last year, everybody remembers the, he gets us

ad from the Superbowl, uh, in 2023 and it kind of lit the Christian social media sphere on fire for a

couple of days, which I think was really cool. And that actually helped improve in, in good and bad

ways as everything with Christianity does. Um, and that actually helped improve the standing of what

glue was trying to do, which is really become the premier technical platform for Christianity, uh,

utilizing all sorts of different partnerships and kind of a big wealth of database knowledge and,

you know, a unique team of engineers, they have been able to plug certain pieces in to really, uh,

hone in on people that are exploring faith. And we actually, um, partnered with glue to help out

that Explorer program. And so we kind of had this first step, which was creating a series of videos

based off of actually part of what we're doing with our discipleship program. We had Dr. John Harris,

uh, really delivering some key kind of things, talking about, uh, the, the blessed practices from

sharing Jesus online and everything that was that, that kind of came from that. But out of that sprang

a deeper partnership. And we were given the remit to create a show, uh, some sort of unique podcast

show stream something that was designed to do three things. Number one, it was designed to be entertaining,

of course, because you don't just want to have a bunch of people sitting staring at a camera for a

couple of hours or a couple of minutes because nobody's going to watch that. It doesn't matter

where you put it. So it wanted to be entertaining. Number two, it had to be insightful, uh, meaning

there had to be actual real experts doing actual real things. And number three, it had to tie into

what glue was doing specifically with its Explorer program. And so out of that came this brainchild that

I, and kind of some members of our team developed called from text to testimony. And from text to

testimony is essentially a show that is all three of those things. I'd like to think we're entertaining.

You guys don't have to agree with me. Uh, I think we've got a really good chemistry myself

and, uh, John Pyle, who is like my blood brother and I've never met the dude, but you want to talk

about a digital relationship, like me and that guy, we're homies. Uh, and then the amazing Megan

Carter, who we've already talked about, and we are the three amigos on from text to testimony.

And essentially what the show does is it walks through our real life experiences using the glue

explorer platform. There's a lot of things that glue is tying together, but one of the main things

is using a free texting service to help reach people that are in need of care, of love, of conversation,

of community, of all sorts of things that we know that we really have that core gut feeling that we

need from text to testimony addresses a lot of the holes that are currently in that program.

A lot of things that we have seen, a lot of the experiences we had, a lot of the conversations,

and then out of that, we draw practical learning and practical tips. And it's been a lot of fun

to produce. It's been a lot of fun to be on. It's been a lot of fun to present to glue.

Uh, you can check us out actually on our church digital YouTube page. Also glue is going to be

marketing that as well. So if you're ever in touch with anything that glue is doing,

please do us a favor and click the FTT link. I don't care if you watch it, just click the link,

make us, you know, give us a little, a little boost there with glue. Uh, that's,

that's called viral marketing, right? We're allowed to do that. Uh, that, that show,

by the way, is going to continue. Uh, we are blogging about it. We're posting about it. We are

doing the thing and I have had a ton of fun getting a chance to just talk with Megan and with John and

really get into some of what people are actually struggling with things like anxiety and depression

and mental health and grief and loss. And, um, we talk about power rangers and then we loop that

right into, you know, mental health conversations cause it does happen and all sorts of things in

there. So check it out from text to testimony. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. I, I just want to contribute

here. Um, that show is incredible. Um, the, the entertaining, yeah, no, I'm kidding. It's

entertaining. Thanks Jeff. But the, the, the heartfelt conversations, uh, digging into topics,

um, uh, for people, for digital missionaries and people that, that are, are sharing Jesus digitally

on social media or via texting, like, like we're doing it for glue aimed at glue. Um, people that are

part of the explorers program, people that are responders and active into that. But beyond that,

uh, if you are, are currently doing any sort of digital ministry, like hands-on in the weeds,

interacting with people directly, um, like that is your show. These are your people and, and what

they're doing to practically equip on how to handle mental health issues and, and other challenges that,

that, that you're facing with the, the explorer program and otherwise like it, it's a, it's a very

good resource for, for people that, that are in the midst of that. And so, um, I mean, really it's

become one of the, one of the kind of flagship things that we've been doing here with the church

digital. Like there's, um, that the, my podcast obviously is coming back, but that has stepped up in,

in, in a big way. Um, I'm going to be doing some things over with our, our friends over at, um,

um, Rezzy and, and, and push pay. And you'll see some of that. We'll talk about more of that in,

in the future. Um, but even like, I don't know if we get, can, can we get Tom Pounder on the phone?

Like, is, is he available? Let me have him. Yeah. We're going to have him call in in just a few

minutes. Is he going to, is he going to sneak in? Yeah. Man, some, some of the stuff,

like, I, I just, I want to, as he's coming in, I want to say this before he actually jumps on

because Tom Pounder is freaking incredible. Yeah. The stuff that he generates for you,

for the kingdom, um, is, is incredible. And the dude's been doing it for years. Like I think between

YM sidekick, TCD sidekick, uh, the stuff that he was doing all secondhand, cause he was all doing,

he was at the, at the church and still is like, he's been doing this for eight or nine years.

Easy. Um, writing content, writing blogs, doing podcasts, uh, just trying to, to help people on

the front lines of churches and him coming alongside, uh, the church digital and, um, and, and contributing

and being the sidekick of the church digital and contributor to the TCD podcast network and really

overseeing a lot of the content overall, man, it's been really fun to, to work with him at a more

direct level, uh, and, and see what God's been doing with him in this space. So is this going to be

like that, that, that Michael Scott thing where he's like, I would never say that to his face.

Like you're just, you're just never going to tell him all of these glowing compliments.

I'm totally going to bust his butt for coming on late, even though we told him five o'clock

and not whatever time it's supposed to be. So no, I wouldn't, I would never say this. He'll

listen to it. It'll be like, oh, that's sweet. And then I'll totally deny I said it.

Hey, you know, for, for years, I'll just be, be honest right here for years. I wasn't sure Tom,

uh, was actually a real person. I thought he was a Russian spam bot because I would never actually see

him. I knew all of his friends, his friends would tell me cause I would see his friends all the time,

but Tom never went to conferences. He never aligned the things and, and like, you know,

he just couldn't get out. And so I wasn't sure Tom was an actual person. Um, in many ways now,

I've seen Tom, we've, we've been able to like be in physical space once or twice. I think, um,

I now feel that I'm not about John Pyle, by the way. I'm not sure John Pyle's a real person. He,

I think he's just really good. I don't think he is either. I think he's like, uh, one of those like,

um, V tubers. I think he's a V tuber. Like he's just, he's just a, he's like Hatsune Mikko,

just like somebody's voice in a background somewhere. He is. He's too good. Tom,

we'll get to you in a second. It's okay. Sorry. We're chatting. We're chatting around.

Pyle is too good. He is too good to be a real person. John, I love you, but you are too good to

be a real person. You are too good. Um, his, his podcast, by the way, uh, he's doing a podcast

season beyond church. What's, what's his podcast called inside? Yep. Better on the inside. Yep.

Once again, like I know he's on a break right now. Um, it's, it was 2023 was a rough year for a lot of

people, but my gosh, the stuff that he does in the conversations that, that, that John does is

unbelievable. Well, we can talk about John later. Tom. Hey, we've got a Tom here. Hey, hi, Tom.

Hi guys. I listen. Welcome in. You're wondering what you walked into. Why don't you have a seat over

there? So we, we were, uh, you know what? Uh, Bernie just told me that I had to stop singing your

praises cause it was like too appropriate for it, for the air and that I needed to like tone it back.

So, so forgive me. You'll have to go back and listen to everything nice that I said about you,

but Hey, why don't you talk a little bit about some of the stuff that's coming up with a TCD sidekick?

Yeah. So if you don't know what this TCD sidekick is, it's a podcast I've been doing for a number of

years where I bring on ministry leaders and we talk about how to do ministry more effectively in

today's world. And today's world is really centered around this digital and online component. You know,

I know that you talked about this a while back and I don't know if this is a four letter word or not,

but the fidgetal ministry where you combine the digital with the in person. Um, and I, I really

get ministry leaders on and really talk about how we can do use digital and online as tools to help us

do ministry more effectively. And so I bring on all sorts of just ministry leaders, whether an executive

pastor, a video guy, student minister, children's minister, whoever is doing ministry and incorporating

those digital components, I'm bringing them on and talk about what they're doing so that we can all be

encouraged to do ministry better and more effectively in today's world.

Hmm. It's beautiful. Um, Stadia, I would like to formally apologize for using your trademarked word

fidgetal. Uh, please don't sue me. Uh, next time we'll get permission before we do such a request.

Tom, I thought we had this conversation. Um, yeah, I, I don't, I was funny. Like whenever I say fidgetal,

I got, I've gotten so much crap over the years for saying fidgetal. Like people don't like the word

fidgetal like it's, um, they, they equate it to what's, what's the word like, um, like fidget. There's,

there's other words that, that, you know, when you say it, it's, it's like, that just sounds like a dirty

word. Well, I don't, I don't like the word moist. I hate that moist. That's what I was trying to come

up with moist. It's like word fidgetal and moist. It's like, you can't, you can't say words like fidgetal.

Um, yeah, people are afraid. I'm like, I'm like, are you killing somebody? Do you think I'm killing

somebody because I said fidgetal? I don't, I don't, I don't understand. Why don't you like tuna?

I just, I just, I got, I have like a, I have a couple of bugaboo words, moist, tuna, and garbage.

I don't like the word garbage for some reason. It's just, they make me just, anyway, keep going.

That must be a, like a musician sound guy thing. Like you hate it. Garbage. Okay. Quick story.

Garbage is one of those words that like, as a neurotic 12 year old or 11 year old, I was like

trying to go to sleep and I have a terrible time sleeping all every year since I've been alive.

I just can't fall asleep. My mind doesn't shut off. And so I was sitting there literally staring at the

ceiling and it got caught. You ever get like get caught in a word and you just like think about the

word and then you think about it and then you think about it. Well, that was garbage for me.

And it was like garbage, garbage, garbage. And I did it for probably, it felt like an hour. It was

probably only five minutes, but just kept, that word kept repeating. And I, I learned to hate it at

that point. So we don't call it the garbage right here. We call it the trash. Take out the trash,

please. I'm going to start the garbage podcast. Don't I'm unsubscribing right now. I'm going to,

I'm going to subscribe and then unsubscribe just to stick it to you. Can you call it what the garbage

by, uh, by, uh, by Romans 10, nine, that would be awesome. Um, would, would love that. So Tom,

uh, man, uh, what, what, what, listen upfront and I was singing your praises earlier, even though

Romans told me to shut up, uh, you're the heart that you've poured into the church digital with the,

the content that you're, you're writing and complimenting and, and coming into. And when I

took the break carried for six months, man, it is, it has been awesome. Um, and, and, and I've heard

from, from many out there that it's benefited. And so thank you for doing the effort, for taking the

time for, for carrying like, like you did. And Tom's not going anywhere. Uh, and we're looking

forward to ramping even, even more up, but man, thanks for some of the work that you've done for

the kingdom over the past six months or so. Well, thanks. I mean, uh, honestly, like here,

here's the deal. Like again, when I started doing digital ministry, I was very much a self-taught

guy. I didn't go to school for this. I didn't do training. I went to school for youth ministry.

And so I had to learn all this stuff. So I would latch on to people that was, were doing this. So

that's, again, that's how I first discovered who you were, Jeff, and then got connected with Andy

and everybody else. And, but the reality is my heart is to really help it equip people and give

them practical ability so that they can say, you know what, this isn't rocket science. I can incorporate

digital stuff into my ministry. I can learn this stuff too. And, uh, I can be a digital

missionary and encourage people in Christ, no matter where they live or what they're doing.

And so that's really my heart is really to, to help raise up leaders that they, that they,

that they think, Hey, I can do this. This is possible for me to do.

Yeah. Love that. By the way, nobody, nobody was providing helps and aids, you know,

with this back in like 2018, 2017, before then. Andy, when'd you start being digital pastor?

So did like digital was June of 2019, 2019. Yeah, it was, it was 2019. It was Jay, it was me,

it was Tom and it was maybe Dave Adamson, but Dave's been off and on, on, on what he's focusing

on. I know he's got a lot of different focuses. Um, and so, yeah, it's, it was light. And honestly,

Jay was the first person to interview me. And I think Tom heard me on Jay and that's when Tom

reached out. And so those were really the first two to kind of circle around me and help me get

started with that. And so hats off to Jay Cranda out there. Tom, Tom's Avenger is we have him as

either Hank or Robin and some people might take offense to Robin, but like Tom is that dude without

the weird Tom is no, not Robin Leach, Robin, like a Batman and Robin fame.

Yeah.

We're jumping like metaverses. We can't, I can't go from DC to Marvel. I didn't come up with it. Okay.

I just, I just, I'm just saying you iron light. Can we Robin is like my favorite. I know the

Avengers is Marvel. And so I'm okay with Hank, but when I, again, when I thought of sidekick,

I'm thinking I'm, I'm the Robin of you all. And so I want to help you guys. And you know,

that's, that's kind of where I figured I'd play in. Does Marvel actually have a good sidekick?

Wait, what did you say? What'd you say, Bernie?

There was a certain Robin that want, that did try to kill Batman or tried to.

Yeah. That was in Batman.

So there Dick Grayson is my favorite Robin.

You know, he was, he was the original and he became Nightwing. So yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Which are you trying to kill me, Tom? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This just got ugly.

Yeah. Tom, are you, are you trying to take me out? Well, no, no, no. You're taking Bernie.

It's not Bernie's problem. It's not me. Yes. I'm clear.

Sleep with one eye open, Bernie.

Wait, wait. If we really think about it, that makes him the first Robin,

you would be the third Robin, which would make me the fourth one.

You're the little, you're the evil one. Yeah. He's evil.

Right. Yeah. I'm David. Oh, I'm the, I'm the best one. Yeah.

Well, are we sure about that? Yeah. That still remains to be seen.

That's the equivalent of my DC knowledge right there. That's all I've got. Ladies and gentlemen,

that's all you need. Hey, you'll notice one thing here. We've been talking a lot about the church

digital and we've really not said anything except the passing joke about digital church network,

DCN, the church planting organization that, uh, that we started or that I started. And, um, well,

it got confusing. Like, I, I just, I don't want to like try to mince words on this. Uh, the idea of

trying to market and communicate two separate organizations, uh, the, the, the weight and the

burden, it just, it didn't make any sense. And, uh, as I started talking to people about how there were

two separate, like people that knew what we were doing, honestly, people were telling me, Hey, Jeff,

we have no idea what you're talking about. We just know it's you. We just see you talking about it.

And so the idea of having the two separate organizations running one, the church digital

as a for-profit aimed at helping establish churches and to digital church network, which is aimed at, at

helping plant digital churches. The, the, the overlap just became where it didn't make sense to really

separate them. And so we went through this process and it's taken six months or so, honestly,

to combine the two together, the church digital and the digital church network. And, um, the, the cage

match for which domain name would actually win, uh, went to the church digital. Um, uh, one of the

reasons why is because it would kill me inside if we actually lost TCD, uh, change the logo fine. But,

uh, I like, let's, let's keep that sucker going. Uh, I'm kidding. There's other reasons, but I do

actually really love the idea of the church digital. So, um, you know, our, our dedication to church

planting, uh, still there, if not stronger, it's tied into the movement system. And we're,

you're going to see that ramp up, um, arguably exponentially as we start to get more, uh, leaders

like Stunami and more leaders like Megan as we start to resource other organizations, like what's

happening in Germany, which we'll get more into that later. And so, um, our, our, our passion to be,

once again, the people that are dealing with the crazies, uh, that are helping resource the crazies.

One crazy is, is a nut job. Two crazies is something to consider three crazies. Well,

they're a force to be reckoned with. And so I think we're lining a bunch of crazies up,

uh, Tom Pounder included trying to kill off Bernie. Uh, but what you're, I think you're going to see

with the church digital in the future is, is going to be, uh, a powerful force to reckon with as we

leverage digital discipleship, uh, to reach and empower people to what God has called them to do in

physical and digital space. So I am so looking forward to what the future holds, uh, with this

organization as, as it, as it continues to grow and expand. And so that may be all I have to say

from a, from a podcast host perspective. Um, as we're landing the plane here, guys,

and you know what? I haven't, I haven't wrapped up a podcast in like six months. I'm actually like,

what am I supposed to do at this moment? Uh, as we're landing the plane, cause that's my catchphrase

that I've said 275 times. Uh, Tom, any closing thoughts on your side?

Happy to be here. I am really excited about what the new year is going to bring, uh, for the

church digital and the digital church network.

Tom, digital to violate things. That's two violations.

We got fidgetal and DCN.

Fidgetal and DCN in the same podcast. I don't even know. Um, all right. So we're very happy for

what's coming in the church digital. Um, and happy new year.

Need like the family feud X.

You can just cut all of me out of this.

Oh no, it's staying. It's staying, my guy.

Every second of that saying that's, that's good. Andy, the person who should have shipped out the

language guide has, who's going to hopefully get that out. Maybe Ross can put something together

in the next couple of days. Um, what?

Sounds like I got work to do on our branding guide. Uh, yeah.

Awesome. 2024 is going to be rad. Uh, we've got some really cool partnerships. We've got a really

cool team established and like for the first time in, I think hopefully since Jeff started this,

there's a, there is a, a, uh, a lot of real, real, like big growth happening, not just being

Jeff led, but being team led. And the only way this is going to succeed is if we can help

Jeff really spearhead this. So I'm super stoked to be part of this team. And yeah, it's going to be,

it's going to be a really, really cool year. Awesome. Bernie, any closing thoughts on your side?

Nope. Bye. Good, good answer.

Wow. That's, that's how he leads his meetings, by the way, the power of editing, the power of editing

actually had a closing thing. It turns out I'm actually the third Robin, which is Tim Drake.

Like that makes Andy, the bad boy, Robin, Jason Todd, who Joker kills, who then doesn't die,

comes back for vengeance. So actually Andy's the bad Robin and Damien is the fifth one. And Tim Drake,

I'm just the innocent one. I'm, I'm like Dick Grayson. I'm like Tom. We're just the innocent

Robin sidekick guys. It's just good to be one of the good guys. All right. So Andy's officially

red hood. Is that what we're saying? Okay. He's the guy who gets killed by the Joker. That's the,

that's the part of that. Oh, an inauspicious end. I love it. Yeah. Nice work, Jeff. That's your

fault. Awesome. Why did you let Joker live all these years? This is why I hang out in Marvel world

because like it's, it's, it's, it's happier. It's, it's less gruesome. Yeah. Yeah. Just don't read

anything Spider-Man related because apparently his, the real tagline is Spider-Man never gets anything

nice. Huh? Yeah. The real Spider-Man, Peter Parker, they've decided to never let him have a happy ending.

He will never be happy. Huh? Miles Morales and all the other spider people can have happy endings.

Peter Parker cannot. Sorry. And then, and, and, and podcasts and pause. There we go. Yeah. Yeah.

There we go. I mean, I want to say technically it's not your podcast because I'm the host, but you're my

boss. So, Hey, on that end, we're going to land the plane. This is, this has been great.

you