EP308 Digital & Mental Health - Inner Critic with Andy Mage

But I think that the biggest thing, if you can just recognize that like, okay, it is a lie,

even though it's really hard to just come out of it, that's a first stepping stone.

Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological

innovations within the church, but more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions.

Is disciple making possible digitally? How should we approach the digital mission field?

Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? Oh, and where does the metaverse and

artificial intelligence fit into all of this? Whether you're a big or small church, the Church

Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, digitally and physically.

And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. All right. Hey, we are broadcasting live on Twitch. So now

you're going to see me do a stall here for a minute or two while waiting for some people to come in.

Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. We've got episode... Well, dang, I probably should have

looked this up in advance. Is it 308? It's 308. You know, it's interesting. The guest is telling

me what episode we're doing here on the podcast. And well, he knows better than everybody else. We've

got Andy Mage, who has probably edited and produced... What, Andy? Maybe 50 of these?

Oh, since 271 is the last number I saw. So what is that? 40-ish? Almost 50, yeah?

Almost 50. Almost 50 episodes. Almost a year of the Church Digital Podcast.

God bless you, my friend, man. You know, today we're talking about inner critic and I hate the sound of

my voice. And so, man, I pity anybody who hears my voice on a regular basis. And Andy has done a great

job over the years producing. And Megan Carter is jumping on the show as well. We're doing a season

here on the Church Digital Podcast focusing on digital and mental health. You know, what are the

mental health implications of digital ministry? How do we prepare ourselves digitally for dealing with

people in mental health situations? How do we protect ourselves from being overwhelmed by some of these

things? And so, you know, anytime I talk mental health, Megan's my go-to. And so, she's the guru.

Like, she doesn't... Her inner critic is giving her a fit right now. Saying, don't say that, Jeff.

Honest to God, somebody who really understands digital ministry as well as, you know, expanding

into the mental health situation in that. Man, Megan's the go-to. Megan! Forget the guest,

Andy Mage. We'll get to him in a little bit. You know, tell us a little bit about, like, your

background, your story, and how you ended up going down this mental health road.

Yeah. Let's see. I was born on a Thursday. No, I'm just kidding.

It was dark and cold.

How far back?

It's going to be a long show, Andy. You may have to cut up the box.

Sorry. I'm putting editing notes over here.

No, I... A big part with mental health and my story goes back to my childhood, but growing

up, I dealt with anxiety. I, later on in, like, high school, I would say, dealt with depression

feelings and going through that. And so, that was not talked about, one, in our society, our

culture. It was not talked about, especially in the church. And so, that's a big driving point

that why I've done what I've done. I've learned all that I can learn right now. And I'm continuing

to grow in that so that I can help other people that feel like me. Maybe felt like you can't be a

good Christian, quote unquote, if you deal with mental health issues. And I think today, the inner

critic is one that we're going to talk about. And it's something that I don't know a person who

doesn't deal with this on some level. And it can take you to a really dark place. And we want to

work our ways out of that. And so, having people that you can be beside... I know for me, having

family around, having friends, having a counselor, that's walked me through and helped me with this.

So, yes, I still struggle with the inner critic and dealing with that, but it's a lot better. You have a

lot better days than you have bad days. And so, that's been like a driving force of learning as

much as I can so that I can figure out how our mind works, so that I can help other people. And so,

now getting to sit across from people and counsel them and walk through some of these thoughts,

some of these thought processes has been such a blessing to be able to be like, yeah, I know I

was there. I have been there. I still am there sometimes. And be able to sit that and just relate

to people on that level. And I think that's an awesome thing with digital as well. We get to do

that and be just real with people. Yeah. You know, it's one of the things I love about working with

Megan is she understands the digital ministry context. And she's with First Capital Christian,

Tyler Sansom's church. We spend a lot of time talking about the First Capital and Church Anywhere,

the original Church Anywhere. There have been other Church Anywhere that have popped up.

Thank you, COVID. But the original Church Anywhere. But super love what's happened there in the

culture. It feels like we'd spend a lot of time talking. I think last week we talked about the

culture at that church. And so, love it, love it, love it. And so, here with the digital mental

health season, we did an overview with DJ Chong, I think week one, and he's doing a lot of speaking

on mental health. Week two, we did John Pyle, the John Pyle. My gosh, I could just spend days just

listening to that man talk. You know, just like sit back, relax. John, just open up a book. I don't know,

it doesn't matter what it could be. Read me the preamble to the Constitution and let me just soak

in everything that would come in. I just love listening to him. And he's so genuine and so wise,

honestly. I don't know why you're all listening to my podcast. He's got this podcast called Better

on the Inside. And to be honest, it is my go-to podcast right now. And he's in between seasons,

I think. But if I'm listening to anybody right now, it's John Pyle's Better on the Inside. So,

I am blessed if you go listen to his podcast and go tell John I said hello. Because he is very wise

in this healthy you. I mean, he also understands digital and doesn't necessarily lean. He talks

about digital culture, not as much digital ministry anymore, but just being healthy in this world we

call 2024. Man, it's just crazy. And so, it's a great place to be. And now we've got week three,

Andy Mage coming on. And Andy, operations director of the Church Digital, director of community for the

Church Digital. But Andy's operations with the Church Digital and works with Lux, creative director

for Lux. Am I getting that right? Yep. Creative pastor. Creative pastor. Hey, so tell us a little

bit. Some people may not know the full side of Andy Mage. Give us a little background.

Yeah. Like Jeff said, I am the operations guy, the community guy for the Church Digital. Also,

the creative pastor for Lux. I've been a worship pastor for 10 years. I was a digital pastor for

five years in brick and mortar churches and got a crazy call from God to step out and do this whole

digital church thing. And started doing that in 2019 after having been in the worship and tech side for

10 years. And then a little thing called the COVID, the coronavirus 19. COVID-19 happened and

the entire world kind of turned into digital for a little bit. And so, we were well-placed at the

church I was at. Fell in love with all that. Met Jeff actually before COVID, a couple months prior to

COVID. He and I started in a Bible study, which was kind of fun together. And then kind of have just

been riding the digital wave ever since. I feel really, really called to digital ministry and kind

of what God is doing throughout the internet, literally to the ends of the world. And feel

super called to be doing what we're doing here today, talking to a bunch of people about mental

health. Yes. But also about kind of how we can live into these things. And part of what we do with,

with Lux is we're, uh, Lux is a completely online church. Uh, we started, it was a church that was

ostensibly started for gamers, but has turned into something completely different and it's awesome and

wonderful. And we get the chance to do the same thing, reach the ends of the earth and spread the

gospel. So just excited to be able to do that today. Yeah. Very cool. If you've not checked out Lux,

uh, uh, uh, gaming Lux digital church, not Lux gaming church, let's digital church. Uh, certainly

check that out. Lux digital church.com. Um, you know, we talk about Mark a lot on the show and he's

been on as well. Good, good friend towards that. Hey, all right. So Megan, let me get you to set the

stage. Cause we're talking about inner critic. Uh, so maybe just even start off and, and, and help us

by defining what exactly an inner critic, what we're talking about when we say that.

Well, Megan Carter, make him a life difficult. You got kicked out, but when you came back on,

I thought, I thought you were good. Let me see.

Do you have in the upper right hand corner? You are, you are not being recorded. Megan Carter,

jump out and come back in. No, she's right. You are not. Ooh, that would have been bad.

That would have been bad. Hey everybody on Twitch. We're going to soft shoe for just a minute.

This is the fun part of my favorite part of this show right now is the, everything is fine

in the backdrop of your, of right. Like right now, nobody can see that, uh, on the riverside thing.

So let me see if I can, uh, yeah, I don't think it would anytime Megan. Yeah. So behind me,

I have this like pixel thing and it's just the, it's the, everything is fine. I mean,

Megan, Megan's complicating things. All right, but now we're recording. Everything is fine. It's good.

Megan, thank you for notifying and let me know. I saw it, but I thought it was, was old information.

Um, do I need to set the question again? I think I did a good job. You can, uh, uh,

how's this fitting? Flat cap, flat cap. Thank you. Very flat cap.

Uh, Raiden with a party at 19. Come on in here. Yeah. Very cool. Love that. So talk to us,

Megan. What, what, when we say inner critic, what do we mean? Yeah. Um, inner critic, inner critic is

that voice that's in your head, um, that usually is telling you lies. Um, but we like to believe it as

truth. And I have a really good friend that she said this once and it has stuck with me ever since

our inner critic is actually, it should probably be called our inner bully. Um, when she, when she said

that, I was like, yes, that is exactly what I should call it from now on. Because when we say like

something, someone's being like a critic, they evaluate, um, something that's happening. Right.

But typically those thoughts in our mind, aren't just being like healthy evaluations.

They, um, become very negative if we let it go down that path. And I think from the very beginning there,

it's really our inner bully or inner critic is trying to tell us like to protect us, like,

don't do this because you'll get hurt. Don't do this because this person's going to think this about

you. We have those thoughts, which, yeah, that could be helpful if we realize, okay, this last part,

the, the, because you're going to do have, this isn't always what's going to happen. And so that's

where we have to realize what's true. And then what's the lie that we liked, we fall into that lie

a lot and believe those things. And if we keep telling ourselves and keep thinking those things,

we believe it as like an actual truth. And that's when it becomes a big issue. And I think it's

something that, especially in this day and age, and I think Andy, you can speak a lot onto this

of in the digital world, that that's something we deal with so much because we deal with comparison

of other people. We see their best pieces of their life and compare it to our worst. And this is when

that inner critic, I think is the loudest. And so I would love to hear from you, just maybe an example

or, or something in your own life that you've experienced that because it is something that

we all deal with on some level.

Yeah. I, uh, you're spot on there, Megan, uh, where I think it increases day by day by day,

uh, in our world right now. And I think, you know, we can talk about the evils and dangers of social

media and all that, but that has a, a lasting impact. Um, part of the people that we minister to,

and we get a chance to talk to in Lux particularly, and this is one of the reasons that I stepped

out of brick and mortar physical ministry, uh, kind of hybrid ministry and into straight digital

ministry was because that comparison game is crippling. Uh, and you know, I see it all the

time with other people, but for me personally, and this is going to sound a little weird, but,

um, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a gamer. I'm also like a nerd, a hardcore nerd, but I also have this like

really fitnessy side. Um, like I'm a runner, I'm a marathoner. Um, I used to own a CrossFit gym,

like all sorts of stuff there. Uh, and I'm also like really into tech and I can tell when my inner

critic is really hammering me. Um, I'm very good at compartmentalizing. And when I compartmentalize

things, I start to evaluate my fitness plans and I start to, uh, look at tech and those,

like I can tell in my own journeys, there's like a pathway I can follow where I see,

oh, I was, I stopped doing the running thing I was doing. Cause I wanted to do this other thing,

because I thought I could get perfection here, uh, because my inner critic was beating me up about

something and I can go through my journals and I can go through all of my, um, my quiet time stuff

going back in history. I always keep that stuff so I can look at it and kind of see my own patterns.

Again, nerd data driven, heavily, heavily idiot nerd tech person. And the same thing too, when a new

piece of tech shows up, that usually means my inner critic was hammering me and my wife knows it.

Like she's really good at, uh, yeah, I know the camera looks blurry. It's a part of Riverside.

It's not, it's everything's recording on the other side. Sorry, flat cap just posted in chat. Hey,

your camera looks blurry. Everything's recording at 10, 80, 60, but the way we're broadcasting,

the way we're multi-streaming. So thanks for that flat cap. Um, anyway, Megan, all that to say, it's,

it's one of those things that shows up in my outflows in really weird and kind of nonsensical ways.

I think that the, the weird part, like we all have these different moments and I know for me,

one of the, the things that may seem weird to a lot of people, but it's like, you're going through

the drive-through and they hand you your coffee or your drink and they're like, enjoy your drink.

And you're like, yeah, you too. And I'm like, I can never go back here because that's,

that's where my mind goes. I'm like, nope, I can never show my face because they're going to

remember that I said something really stupid as I was driving off. Now, is that true? No,

but that's, it's kind of a funny way of looking like that's how our inner critic works. And sometimes

it's a much deeper level than that. Like, obviously that one I can usually let go, but

it's a deeper level. Um, so it's, it's one of those things that it can be really strange

and weird, um, and unexpected whenever they happen. And so do you remember, or maybe just like a,

a moment that you've talked to somebody else where that an inner critic popped up like unexpectedly?

Goodness gracious. Yes. Um, being a worship pastor, uh, I would have to interface and interact with a

lot of people all the time. And I remember distinctively, um, so my wife, um, and this is

going to be a weird story. So just hang on with me here. So I was working in New Jersey at a church,

uh, and I ended up getting approached. I don't ever remember applying for the job, but, uh,

I got approached by a church in the Atlanta area, uh, to come be the worship pastor there. And so I,

I essentially was like, okay, whatever, prayed through it, went down and interviewed,

did the whole thing that they gave me, they offered me the job. I accepted the job and moved down.

One of the guys that was on the hiring committee was this guy named Pell. Uh, Pell was like a 60

ish year old dude born in Savannah, Georgia, just Mr. Genteel Southern, just nicest dude ever. Um,

and I, and then his wife, Diane, who she was mid sixties as well. Um, and

so I met them, hung out with them for a little bit. And after I got off stage, I saw this like

beautiful woman walk by just like drop dead, gorgeous woman. And I was like walking up the

stairs, this tech booth. And I did one of those, like where my body kept going, but my head turned,

like, I don't know if you know what I mean. Like your body keeps going, but your head turns and

you just keep like walking. And so I was like calling following her with my eyes. And it was like,

man, I need to see who that is. But she left. Uh, and so I walked up to the tech booth, whatever.

A couple of days later, Pell comes walking into my office with his wife, Diane, and says,

Hey, Pell, or Hey Andy, I want you to meet my daughter. And I was like, oh, wow, Pell,

you have a daughter. And the woman that pokes her head around the door is that beautiful woman that

I had seen. And, and the first thing, the first thing I said was you.

Now, she didn't know what I meant. I knew what I meant. Nobody else knew what I meant. Pell and

Diane did not know what I meant. The look on their faces is like this idiot. We had just hired this

idiot. Uh, this guy's the one that's leading us on stage. Uh, and so long story short, that woman's

now my wife, 10, almost 11 years later. Uh, yeah. And so my wife, uh, Pell and Diane hold to the fact

that God told them to hire me so that I would marry their daughter, Jenna. Uh, but, but yeah,

just me going you, like it was her fault. Like I was the monkey pointing from family guy or something.

That's what that. And then, and so I went home that night and I was just like, you,

you're a frigging idiot. Like, what are you doing? She was gorgeous. It's like, you had never spoken

to a woman in your life and you're just going to. And so I, I ended up running a bunch of extra miles

that night. Cause I was just ticked at myself. Okay. So let me ask, uh, at what point did you

tell, uh, your wife that story? How long did, did it take? Oh no, she was there. Uh, she, so she was

coming down the hall. She knew that you, you were, you were, you were staring. She felt it. Yeah. Uh,

she, and cause she had, so the way she tells it is that I, she saw me walking up the stairs and she was

doing kind of the same thing. Now she had her children with her. She had been married. She's got kids

previous to me. And so she had two children, you know, hand in hand and one walking behind her.

And so she was, she said she was doing the same thing with her eyes and then, but she had to like

turn her head. And so then I did the whole thing. And so later, the couple of days later she came,

I guess, I don't know what happened. Like I, I could have been a divinely inspired thing.

Who knows? But yeah, like that was, that's how we met. And like, till this day we tell that story

and it's just like, yeah, I was, I was the idiot that said you. And she's like, yeah, I was the idiot

that married a 30 year old with, uh, that had never been married before. And so.

Yeah. Creeper. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm gonna have to cut this out.

Oh man. Megan for me, inner critic is, um, it, when I'm, when I'm reliving a situation,

um, when I'm, when I'm about to do something, I'll relive a situation where I failed at that

before, or I did something stupid. Um, like I'll, I'll literally, or even just like, I'll be walking

around and, um, I'll literally, I'll, I was talking about just out loud. I'll, I'll like

moan or I'll grunt or I'll say, I'll literally, I'll say like, dang it. Or, you know, for no reason

whatsoever. And, and my, my wife looks at me or, you know, the kids like, what's wrong,

dad? I was like, nothing. Just, just reliving some incident from 15 years ago that has nothing to

do with right now. Uh, but it is just in my head to, to make me feel this big and just to,

to, to squash me that, that, that I can't do something. And so, um, you know, that, that's the,

that's my walking example. I don't know that I've got the you story, like, like our, our friend,

Andy, but that's, that's what I got. I don't want that story. No, I've, I've got, I've got some of

those stories, but, but that's in another context for a different day. No, I, I mean, I relate to

the, the stories because I mean, we've all been there in different situations, right? We've all

looked at our past and been like, man, I wish I could have done that differently,

but then we dwell on it. We let it like linger, um, in a whole, let's turn it a little bit,

go to one of, I'll share with one of my like times that maybe derailed me. Um,

maybe the, one of the biggest lies that my inner critic has told me, um, was, you know,

I was talking to before, like I've dealt with anxiety and that kind of stuff since I was younger.

And one of my biggest, it deals with which I grew up in late nineties, early two thousands.

It was not a great place for a female to grow up when your role models were stick figures,

basically. And, um, that's what you were trying to live up to when God did not design you to look

like that. That can be really hard. And so that was a huge one for me that I was like, well, I didn't

look like these people that were supposed to look like, um, I already feel, you know, you're growing

up, you feel weird in your body, like all these different things. So my image, like my self-image

image that I had was really, really negative. And one of the biggest lies that I believed for a long

time, um, sorry, this one's a hard, it's hard, but it's true. And I know that it helps people,

but, um, I believe that like God messed up when he made me like he missed something when he was putting

me together. And I think that a lot of people deal with that and, and struggle with that feeling

because something feels off, something feels wrong. Being in my childhood, growing up and

feeling awkward and then feeling like God messed up when he made me. Um, that has been the biggest lie

that I had believed for so long. It took me until I had people around me. It took me until I went to a

counselor, um, for the first time to ever say that. And that was about three years ago out loud. Um, so

for, I don't know, 15, 20 years of my life, it felt like I was, uh, just holding that in, which is not

healthy. So if you feel that way, please talk to somebody. Um, I always throw that in, but it's,

yeah, it's one of those things that when you believe your inner critic that lie for so long,

it's a really hard thing just to like flip the switch and be like, Oh, okay. Yep. Got it. That's,

that's not true. Um, it takes some time. It takes work on your hat, like your part to get there.

Um, takes people around you. But I think that the biggest thing, if you can just recognize that like,

okay, it is a lie, even though it's really hard to just come out of it. Um, that's a first stepping

stone. The, for me, it was like that right there. So I, I, um, uh, I'm going to bring the Enneagram

into this, which is whatever, but, uh, I'm an Enneagram three. Uh, so I'm a three and a six

threes. There's a healthy and a, whatever it's stupid. If you've never studied the Enneagram,

then don't, don't cause you're going to get lost. But, uh, the threes are performers threes are,

uh, we'd like to be in front of people. We like to present ourselves. And so a healthy three is

great. A healthy three is, uh, I think it's great because I'm a three, uh, but a healthy three is

very much, um, a bolstering presence can really propel a project, can be a leader, can do all

these things. An unhealthy three moves to a stressed out six and a stressed out six, uh, is very much a,

um, uh, they listen to the inner critic. They're getting beaten down all the time. They're trying

to constantly work harder and harder and harder to, to put the mask on to make sure that people see

perfection or else if they see any crumbling, then, uh, they're going to realize that I'm

as, uh, unconfident and, um, inferior in my own head as I'm portraying and all those other things.

And so, um, I actually, back in 2019, there's, I've struggled with that for my entire life.

Like I, I am, I'm a basket case when it comes to all that, uh, always have been. And I just thought

it was like, yeah, that's me. I'm just gonna have to deal with it. It's one of the reasons that I fell

into a whole lot of addictive substances like cocaine and marijuana and all sorts of stuff is

because, uh, anytime I was high, I didn't have to worry about any of that. It just, I was hanging out

with friends. We were all kind of, you know, blasted out of our minds and I didn't have to think about

how bad I actually was. Well, uh, I, back in like 2018, 2019, there's this guy, um, this, his name's

Ryan O'Neal, but he, he goes by the moniker sleeping at last. He's a, um, he's a brilliant

musician. Uh, you've, if you've ever listened to Grey's Anatomy or ever watched Grey's Anatomy or any

one of those shows, those ABC shows, you've heard some sort of sleeping at last song. He,

he, he performed, he does all these orchestral things. Anyway, he's also a Christian. Um, and he

decided back in like 2018, he was going to write this suite based on all nine Enneagram numbers.

And he put this album out in like 2019. I remember listening to it the first time I hadn't really been

through much counseling at the time I had. My mom had passed away and I had started seeing a counselor

because of my, because of that. And we kind of started getting stuff. And then I got, I got scared

and I ran away and then just didn't, didn't see it. And I specifically remember putting this album

on and it was a week where we had just moved to Florida, um, from Atlanta. I had moved, uh,

I had thought I had made the complete wrong choice, moving my family down to Tampa. And I was just getting

the absolute snot kicked out of me by my inner critic. Hey, you're never going to like, what are you

doing here at this big mega church? You don't belong here. Uh, you're getting paid to like

surf the internet all day. You're an idiot. You're never going to be able to do these things. This is

so much, uh, this is so much out of your wheelhouse. You've been a musician. You're not doing any music

now, et cetera, just over and over and over. Listen to this album. And he literally on the song three,

and I've got the lyrics pulled up. Like I'm thinking about getting these like tattooed on the inside of

my arm. Uh, the lyrics are maybe I've done enough as your golden child grew up. Maybe this trophy

isn't real love and without or with or without it, I'm good enough. Maybe I've done enough. Finally

catching up for the first time. I see an image of my brokenness, utterly worthy of love. Maybe I've

done enough. And so it builds and builds and builds and builds and builds. And then towards the very end,

he says, and finally, I see myself unabridged and overwhelmed, a mess of a story. I'm ashamed to

tell, but I'm slowly learning how to break this spell. And finally, I see myself. And I remember,

uh, and the song is just beautiful. Oh, it's just like this like bone chilling thing. And I was

sitting in the van with my, like my wife and I were coming home from Costco. And for whatever reason,

I just, this is emblazoned in my head. I was listening to the song. We're at this stoplight.

I'm turning left out of Costco and I am listening and I am a wreck. Like I am just like having a

breakdown in the middle of the freaking road. And my wife's like, do I need to drive? Like what's

going on? Are you dying? Like, are you sick? Are you all those things? It's like, no, you just,

oh, this is, and I couldn't, you know, it was like ugly crying. So finally we went, got going and I

pulled over into the parking lot of a Publix and it was the, it was like the first time I had been

like super honest with my wife. We had only been like married five or six years at that point.

It was the first time I was super honest with her. And I said like, Hey, I need help.

Like this is you have no idea what's going on in my head. I need help. And I got a counselor shortly

there after that. And that dude, I still see him like every, every month I still see him. It was

like every week. And now we're down to once a month, uh, only telling that story because like,

Hey, if you're struggling with that stuff, go talk to somebody please. Cause that it will overtake

you and it will ruin your life. It's interesting how the inner critic stuff is. It's all tied around.

You're not good enough. I mean, like, I mean, obviously we're, we're, we're criticizing ourselves

or something within us as being critical of that, but it's that perception. Like I'm even thinking

of, of stuff in, in, in my life and, in, in that. And, um, you know, I mean, I was, I was obsessed

with football in high school and it went back to my, uh, my football coach, my seventh grade

year telling me, you suck, Reed. You're never going to amount to anything. And, um, and letting that

just be the, the, the fuel that literally, I mean, I know that guy is actually in jail right now.

Uh, but that actually, and I'm not, I'm not at all saying that makes me, you know, bitter

and like, take that coach. Uh, but, uh, I mean, there is, there's a little bit of truth in that.

It's, it's, it's like that, that becomes the, uh, the, the, the inner critic becomes the fuel that

drives us at an healthier, unhealthy level, or it becomes a thing that cripples us at, at an unhealthy

level. And so how, how that balance out is interesting to me. So.

Yeah. I did a survey and a couple of years ago, I think with people online and had three

simple questions about the inner critic and just saying like, you know, how does it affect

you? What like environmental factors, you know, even play into it. People does kind of things.

And it was anonymous. And I think I had like 23 people respond. And I remember sitting in my office

and just crying, like reading through people's responses and like what they believed about

themselves. And I found it really interesting that it seemed like there was almost like two camps of

it. You had the camp of like, it's all inward. So it's like how you feel about yourself. Um,

what you think like you're capable of your worth, all of that. And then the other one was how other

people view you. So it was outward. So it's how you're feeling that other people are perceiving you.

Um, which I thought was really interesting that it kind of fell in one of those areas, like

diving down deep. Is it an inner, like you're feeling this about yourself or is it something

you're feeling about how other people perceive you? Which I think that goes back to your Enneagram.

Like you're, it's very much a perceived where mine I'm a perfectionist. I'm a one. So it's very much

inner. Yeah. So this whole like tech issues, like there's like inner critic. Here's let's throw this

into the podcast here. No, but I think it's one of those things that a lot of people want to say

that it can be like, we can just silence it. We can, you know, let go and let God just, you know,

pray about it harder. I hate these phrases. Um, but all those things, and I don't know that it can fully

be silenced because we're human. Right. But what are some things we can do to manage it? Like,

what are some things you found maybe in your own life? Cause everybody's going to experience it

differently and find ways that manage it best in their own life. But what are some things that you've

seen that can help you or have helped you in the past that maybe can help somebody else?

Yeah. Uh, I have, I have two big things that I do now. So, uh, I read this book, um,

by John Acuff. I don't know if you guys know John Acuff, the, the stuff Christians like guy.

He wrote a book, uh, back in maybe 2019, 2020, right around there, right when I was like, kind of

really getting hammered on this inner critic stuff. And there's a book called soundtracks.

And it's all about the, it's a, it's a loose metaphor, but it's all about the soundtracks

that are playing in your life. And he said, uh, in there, he's very much like me. He's very much

a three. He comes from that very performative, uh, background and has that performative mentality.

And he said, you need to name your inner critic. And I was like, what, what do you mean? Uh,

and so I started getting a list together, uh, of anytime the inner critic would say something to

me, I have this little, this little journal next to me and I'd just write down a name,

whatever the first name that I heard. Um, and so, and then I whittled it down and I got it down to

two names. I got it down to Todd and I threw Todd away. Cause like, shut up, Todd. Like that,

that, that just seemed like a, that seemed like a funny thing to me. Uh, but the other,

the other name I chose, we, and this, I know we're Christians, uh, but, um, I started calling him

Joffrey, uh, as King Joffrey from Game of Thrones. Yeah. Uh, because Joffrey was a little crap bag

and, uh, he eventually, spoiler, he dies thankfully. Uh, but he's a real, real bad person. And so I started

calling him Joffrey. And so anytime now, and it's still like, I'm still plagued with it all the time

and I get into really bad seasons. Uh, and, um, I, anytime I'm, you know, medication and stuff like

that is all over the place. Like I, uh, also, by the way, I talking to my counselor, I got on medication,

which super helped. I'm on a little, a little pill called Lexapro. And let me tell you that changed a

whole lot of things for me. But, um, anytime I feel Joffrey kind of creeping up, it's just like,

shut up, Joffrey, go sit in the corner, Joffrey, uh, go, you know, go ram a dragon's head into a wall,

Joffrey, stuff like that. And I'll tell him to shut up there. So that's number one. Number two,

uh, I have carried with me the, from the first season of Ted Lasso, uh, I have carried the phrase

that Ted Lasso runs around with be a goldfish. Uh, I have carried that with me in my back pocket.

I know I'm, I'm a Christian. I'm a pastor. I'm supposed to have like biblical phrases and stuff.

And I do, but those are the, those are the quick ones that come out. Uh, it's the be a goldfish.

If somebody says something about you, cause they're going to, uh, if somebody, like, if you say

something and you, you get that moment where you're like, you know, Megan, you're doing the whole,

like, have a good day. You too. If you do that thing, like be a goldfish, you just got to move on.

You just got to like, I got too much else to worry about. Uh, I got too much else to be beat up about.

I can't be beat up about that. So those are my two. Yeah, that's awesome. I love that phrase too.

Yeah. Big goldfish, big goldfish. That was actually on who wants to be a millionaire this season.

The big goldfish. Yeah. It was one of the, like, you know, under 10, under $1,000 questions. Like what,

what, uh, what phrase did Ted Lasso say all the time? And it was like, be a goldfish. And one was like,

be a leopard. And one was like, be a, uh, fruit fly. Fruit fly was hard for a second. I was like,

fruit fly. No, it's not because, you know, fruit fly lives for like two seconds and dies. That's

not really the point, but goldfish stuck, stuck with me. That was, that was good.

Huh? I think I'm going to go biblical because obviously I'm over here.

Somebody's got to redeem this podcast. This is you. This is your job.

No, I think that those things are so applicable to people. And so, but one thing that I always run

and filter all my thoughts or at least I try to, when I can is the Philippians four, eight through

nine. Uh, you know, it's a, whatever is true, whatever is noble, um, authentic, compelling,

and gracious, uh, think upon these things. And I love how the message says it. It says not the worst,

the beautiful, not the ugly, the praise. And I just, I think that's so cool. And it's like, okay,

if I can filter it through that, I start to see, Hmm, maybe that inner critic. Isn't so truthful,

so honest to what's really happening around me. So I think that's been a big one that I try to filter

that through. Now, if I'm on stage hosting and telling people all these things, my inner critic

is having a whole monologue in my voice. And that's really hard at that moment to be like,

hold, please, let me filter this through. But, but finding time afterwards and be like, okay,

that, that monologue is not, is not true. It's not what, what, you know, even God says about me.

It's not what my husband says about me. It's not what my kids say. And that was one of the exercises

that I absolutely hated to do in counseling was my counselor said, okay, go home and write on this

card. What do you see when you look in a mirror? And I was like, Ooh, no, no, no, don't want to do

that. Um, but I did it cause I'm a rule follower. And so followed that. Um, but then it went on to

like, well, what does your husband see? What do your kids see? You know, what does God see? And that's

what it all boiled down to. And so I think when you can start to see yourself the way God sees you,

that can start to change the way your inner critic talks to you, um, or, or says things about you.

So that's, that's been like the biggest game changer. And then obviously like podcasts and books and

all that is finding, I love to learn about the brain. So as I continue learning about that, that's

helped a lot too. Yeah, of course. All right. So let me ask this question.

Do you silence the inner critic or does the inner critic words no longer have impact?

Like, do you ever actually get Joffrey to shut up or is, is, do you just, you know, ignore him and

stick him in the corner? So I don't think he ever shuts up. And I think that's, at least for me,

for my personality style, I never get Joffrey to shut up. I learned how to, again, compartmentalize

and put him into a proper corner. Most of the time, uh, the, my problem is that it's a very,

uh, will and energy based system for me. And when I'm running low, if you're part of our discord,

you see, I routinely will post the, the, the meme of the dude dumping a whole pot of coffee on his face

in the bathtub. Uh, routinely I get like four or five hours of sleep and I'm very tired most of the

time. And so Joffrey's most of the time has a field day when that's happening. Uh, and so that's

when I have to really lean biblical, uh, and start to actually go, Oh yeah, by the way, I am think on

these things, like think on the, the true and the good and the wise and the mighty thing. Like, yeah.

Uh, Joffrey never shuts up though for me. And I don't know, Megan, maybe he does for you,

but, or whatever your, your little Todd is called or whatever, but no, he never shuts up for me.

And I think I'm going to name it Todd from now on. Yeah. It's a great, uh, no, I don't know

anyone that it completely just silences and shuts off. Um, if you, if somebody figures it out,

please let me know. Cause I would love to, to make that happen. Um, but I, I think it's really just

figuring out what is true. What, what's, what do I believe? What do I kind of use as maybe a warning

signal as a, like, Hey, I noticed that this is happening and I know where it leads. Um, so things

like that. And I think I, it's hard for me to just like, let it go to just not acknowledge it and be

like, Oh yeah. Okay. I'm thinking that. Nope. Just move on with my life. No, because if I don't deal

with it, if I don't even just say it out loud or walk through that feeling, the thought, um, that

emotion, I, then I, I don't, it's just going to bottle up and it's going to be pressed down and

pressed down and pressed down. And I heard this example the other day and I've used it with so

many people and I was like, this is perfect. But, um, if you think of like a bottle of soda,

soda, so let's say a Coke, like you have a bottle of soda, you can see the Coke in there each like

moment in your life. So each thought is like, you're shaking the bottle just a little bit.

And so you shake it and like a really big thought that can really disrupt your life,

shake it a little bit more. Um, until you get that ring of foam around the top,

you know, before you open it. So if you open that right away, it's going to just explode all over,

right? It's going to go everywhere and become a complete mess. And I think our inner critic and

our emotions can feel like that. Sometimes if we just keep pressing them down, it activates them and

it brings a pressure where if we can just give some time and then open it slowly, you have that little

like, like sizzle that comes out. And that's what we kind of have to be able to do with those thoughts

is let it sizzle just a little bit, give it some time. I know. And then you're able to like fully

process it and it doesn't become a complete mess over like the worst possible place, because that's

what's going to happen. If you don't try, like deal with it at some point in your life.

Quote of the podcast is let it sizzle, by the way.

Yeah. Let it, let it sizzle.

I was trying to do that short. I didn't want to do it. Yeah. I I've used that in counseling and I'm

like, I would bring a bottle in, but I don't want it all over my office.

Smart. Yeah. Smart.

Definitely don't want to do that. I would not be good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How often Megan, I don't know if you can answer this and I don't want stories. I don't want to

violate anything, but I would imagine inner critic is a constant rhythm with, with people that you're

counseling. Like it's, it seems to be like everything could almost boil back down to that.

Am I, am I reading that correctly?

Yeah. It's, I think it becomes sometimes part of our identity, um, who we are. And sometimes it's easier

to not deal with it in process because it's almost like you have that comfort blanket and you just

carry it around with you. And like, that's how you don't know what's life life is like without

having that. Um, and that's scary. That can be a very scary thing. And so the thought of walking

into something or, you know, walking into counseling, walking into those emotions, those feelings,

those thoughts can become really scary. And so it's a, it's a thing that I, I, again, I don't know a

person who doesn't deal with it on some level. Um, and they may not name it that, but it's, it's there

for sure.

Yeah. You know, I don't, I don't think I've ever told this story, but you just saying that was like,

okay, let me, let me, let me tell this. So 2020 COVID's happening, right? And, um, there was, and

actually we're going to meet, um, Mindy, this in a little bit, Mindy Caliguire, she's going to be

on a future show. Um, Mindy, incredible soulcare.com. She reached out. No, she's not, she's more, uh,

spiritual direction than actual counseling and her organization does more of that type of thing.

But, um, she says, um, Jeff, um, you know, you're, you've been doing a great work online,

helping all these churches. We were, we were friends and she's like, why don't, why don't we

give you, you know, five free sessions, uh, for, um, through soulcare.com with a, with a counselor,

you know, meet online on zoom and just, you know, do it for free just to, you know, make sure that

you're processing all this well. Um, and we, so I did, I did five sessions. It was actually four

sessions. I, cause by the time we got midway through the fourth one, uh, the counselor had backed

me up into the corner where it was like, okay, if I rip that bandaid off, if I address the thing that

you want me to address right now, I'm not going to be the person coming out of this, that, that I need

to be in COVID. Um, because I just, I was, I was using just my confession hour. I was using my critic

as the, as the, you know, F you guy in my life. And it was like, well, I'm going to, I'm going to do it

despite you. And, um, and he was trying to repair that. And, and, and also I'm like, I don't, I don't,

I don't need that. I need to be able to work 20 plus hours a night. I need to almost be unhealthy

in the season. And, um, and he probably, he made me promise. Well, Jeff, you're going to have to get

this addressed and okay. Yeah, I'll come back. I'll come back. I'll come back. And they would check in

every once in a while, you know, for, for more sessions, you know, would you like to talk some more

about this, finish up now I'm too busy. No, I'm too busy. No. And I ignored, I ignored coming back.

And in, in, in many ways, the, the crap that I went through in 23, the crash that, that I'd had

three years later, uh, was tied into the fact that I never really addressed the thing that I knew was

there. It was lingering. I just, I just ignored it and, and, and ignored dealing with it until it

became part of this really big mess of crapola, uh, that exploded and that I was forced to deal with

kind of in real time, second half of last year. And so, um, you know, ignoring it seems like it for

me, ignoring, it seemed to be like, Oh, that's the answer. I, let me just get past this and just,

you know, stick Todd in the corner, bad Todd, Todd, um, stupid Todd. Shut up, Todd. Oh my gosh.

But by doing that, I actually gave Todd more power. It's interesting, Andy. Um, I don't know if you

realize this, but I guess early this year, I, I said to you, I judged on, on a zoom call with you

and this was, I was, I was on all these meds. My health was not good. Um, like every aspect of my

life was, was like off kilter by some degree. And, um, and, and, and I, so I grabbed Andy in a meeting and I

just want you to know, like, I just need to tell you, like, I'm depressed right now. Um, and, um,

and I was like, I don't, I'm trying to, and in my mind, there's like, I'm trying to figure out

if it's the medicine, if it's the situation, if it's like, why am I depressed? Like I, I found

myself for weeks trying to figure out and to solve this equation on its own and to, for me to justify,

so I could put Todd back in the corner and justify Todd being there. Um, and just even putting words on

it and saying, Hey, Andy, I'm, I'm, I'm depressed right now. Um, if I'm honest, 70%, 80% of the power

of depression left for my situation by just telling Andy that, um, by getting it out there. Now, Andy

told me something back and I don't, I mean, it was, it was nice. It was inspiring. It was pastoral. It was

powerful, but it was not 70 to 80% of depression's power being removed. Like Andy's not, didn't have

those words in that two second sound, two minute sound bite. Um, it was, it was really, it was just

put getting it out there, removing the stigma and which removed the power from it. And at least in my

story. And so I, uh, I appreciate Andy's helpfulness in that. You're welcome. Um, and then, but more than

that, like, don't stick them in the corner, like get them out while you can, while you have, while

you have the power of the situation instead of giving more power to him or her. Yeah. Or yeah,

them, that person, that idiot, Todd, uh, I, I will say the getting rid of, so I, I, I've told,

I've been pretty, pretty open with everybody about this, but I've, again, on medication,

medication for me is there's a legitimate, um, one of the things we figured out during my counseling

stuff was that my inner critic, what my addictiveness, uh, my addictive personality

is, uh, it led down some pretty dark roads. And, uh, the reason that I'm taking, uh, some,

my dogs are, of course, barking right now. Uh, the reason that I'm taking, um, Lexapro is because

what it does is it actually helps focus those things. It helps focus away the Joffreys and

the Tods and actually helps me focus a little bit more on, uh, staying even, staying focused,

staying, um, uh, with it and together. Uh, I, I, I first told my counselor, like, I don't want

this as a crutch. And he said, no, it's not a crutch, uh, when it's a legitimate thing.

He said, a lot of times people use medication as crutches, but if you have an addictive personality

and you're, you are literally, uh, you had a lot of years with substances inside of you,

literally chemicals that were altering your brain. He said, medication, a lot of times will

help you to rewire your brain. And I'm not going to be on it forever. Uh, but I do anticipate

being on it for a little bit longer. And I will tell you what, like, it's, I can tell the days

when I miss one, uh, not just with depression and all that, but like my inner critic, the anxiety

that comes with Joffrey trying to tell me that I'm an idiot and then I'm too short and I'm too

bald. And my, my beard is too gross and I'm never going to be fast and I'm never going to be a good

pastor and I'm never going to be a good dad. Like that, that ramps up considerably.

It's amazing. All the different opportunities that we have, like through counselors,

through medicine, through family, friends, loved ones, like being able to come at this from different

angles because every person is going to be able to handle it differently, um, and be able to manage

their inner critic, their own mental health differently. And for some people, like you said,

like medicine is wonderful. And for some people it doesn't work as well. So unfortunately it's a

little bit of a trial and error to find what the right thing is. But once you find that it's so

freeing and it gives you so much more to be able to manage. Um, it's, it's one of those things that

like, for me, I know I will deal with anxiety my entire life. I mean, I'm not going to put God in a

box. He could just say, he heal it and take it away, but he hasn't. Um, and I'm, it's going to sound

weird. I'm kind of grateful he hasn't because yeah, I don't like the times that it's really hard

to get through different pieces of life or get through different thoughts that my inner critic

tells me, but to be able to get to where I am, I wouldn't be like, I wouldn't have went through all

the training. I wouldn't have went through the different programs to learn so that I can in turn

help other people. If I would have just been healed and like it'd been taken away, I wouldn't be doing

this because I wouldn't have had the passion to be able to help other people. And so that's been

just such a driving force to help. And then I think through of like, when I'm sitting across from

people, I always think of, okay, what would, cause I've been in that situation. I've been sitting on

the other side of my desk basically. And I'm like, what would I tell my younger self? What would I tell

myself? Because that's who I'm sitting across from is myself before I was able to manage this

so much better. And I know my biggest one is I want them to know. And I would tell, I wish I could go

back and tell my younger self, like, you're not alone. You're not the only person dealing with this

because our inner critic loves to tell us that our inner critic loves to say, you're the only one who

think who thinks this way. Your only one feels this way. And especially when you're doing ministry or

ministry through, you know, digital spaces, you're the only one that's dealing with this because you see

all the other things that are happening. Like everybody else is living this wonderful life

and has all these things. Um, so that's probably one of the biggest things I wish I could just go

back and tell my younger self, but now I get to tell other people that they're not alone. Um, do you

guys think of any things that, that you would love to be able to tell your younger self or maybe other

people listening who are struggling with this right now?

I mean, I, I would say stop caring. Uh, and if I could, if I could go back and sit with myself,

I would say stop caring. I'm a pastor. And so I like to tell stories. Uh, one of the stories

that I would relate to this is, um, we had a greyhound. I've always loved greyhounds. Um,

I think they're like the best dogs. And if you're not from Florida, you might not know that what

greyhounds go through down here, but, uh, they have literal dog tracks where they take greyhounds

into their born into captivity. And then they're essentially given a small concrete cell to live

in. And they're let out a couple of times a day to sprint at a thing that looks like a rabbit

and they chase them. And then that's what they do for training. And then they go back into that cage

and then they sit there and they're usually, it's pretty bad conditions usually. Uh, and then

occasionally about once a week, they get taken out into the dog park and they then come from the dog

park into the dog track. They get put into these traps, the traps open, there's eight or 10 other

dogs around them. And then they run at this thing and people bet on them. Uh, that's just,

that's right. Dog track racing. It's different than horse racing. The horses are treated very well.

Dogs are treated very poorly. Uh, the thing then that happens when they get like a year or two old

is that they're quote unquote past their prime. And so then they go into retirement. And if they

aren't, if you don't find a home for the dog, then they're ultimately put down. We had a dog,

a greyhound loved her. She was great. She had some mental issues, obviously from being beaten and all

those other things, but loved her. She was awesome. One thing that would happen, uh, when we had,

her, however, is that she never, she could never forget how to not chase the thing.

And so when she would see, we had to, we had to, you know, dogs, you can usually put on the 10 or 12

foot leads. You can put on a six foot lead. Uh, they have special leads for greyhounds because

they're so fast and so agile and so strong that if they get up, they get up to top speed like that.

And so if you give her even a six foot lead, uh, a leash, she'll snap her neck and she'll die.

And, uh, and so if she saw the raccoon while we were out walking, she would like want to do the

thing. And for so long when we had her, it was, I wanted to say, Ella, you need to forget the thing.

Like you, you are in such a better place. Like what, why are you, why are you still chasing the

thing? Like you have everything. You never will need that squirrel. You will net, you, you have a

big bed. You've got a home. You've got people that love you. We taught you how to walk up and

downstairs. Cause she didn't know how to walk up and downstairs. Like we, we've taught you all these

things. How do you not see that? And she always still wanted that squirrel. And I would tell my,

I would tell my younger self that same thing. Hey, you need to be like the greyhound. And you just

need to understand that like, that's, that's, that's not the thing that, that Joffrey, that's

going to chase you down about that one small little thing. Forget about it. Stop caring about

it. You don't need that anymore. Forget the squirrel. Forget the squirrel, man. Was, was it Rocky?

Is Rocky the squirrel in Bullwinkle? Rocky, Rocky raccoon. Uh, Rocky was a raccoon. Is Rocky a raccoon?

Yeah. Rocky's a raccoon. Yep. Mouse, a moose and squirrel. No, it is, it is. You're right. It is.

It is, it's moose and squirrel. It's Rocky. It's a raccoon. Rocky is, is, uh, okay. All right. So

forget Rocky. Yeah. Get that tattoo. Um, no, Rocky, I'm looking at Rocky. He's an idiot. He looks

like an idiot. I forgot that. Got that big buck teeth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's my take on

the situation. Nice. Um, yeah, I, I, I would, I don't, I don't have a good story like that. Um, and

living in Florida, I've never been to a dog track. I, I, I second everything he just said. Um,

but I do, um, I gave too much power to the opinion of, of, um, of Todd, of, um, of Rocky,

of, of those around me. Like I, I just, I, I, I empowered too much of that, um, in, in my,

in my, over my years. Um, so that's probably some of the weight that I'm, um, carried or

have carried it literally for me over the years. But, um, and I don't know that I'm better

now. I mean, I'm still, I'm still carrying some of that, that baggage, but pro and processing

through it. But I think I've, I've learned over the years to, um, stick them in the corner

a little bit more and, and, um, and discredit them, uh, where necessary. You know, when,

when, um, coach tells me you suck, Reed, you never amount to anything. I, I throw back at

him the things that I've done and that I've got kids who love me and a, and a, and a wife

and, um, and, um, and a happy marriage and, um, and I love God and, you know, the things

in my life that, that maybe counterbalance what, um, and, you know, the coach was more

alluding to the fact that, you know, I, I was falling off my blocks, uh, being an offensive

lineman and, um, you know, saying that to a seventh grader may not be the wisest choice

in the history of mankind. But, um, that being said, you know, I still hear that coach's voice

in my head every once in a while.

Yeah. It's hard to just completely forget about those types of things. And it made me

think of, um, kind of flipping it just a little bit with how we think of a lot of these negative

pieces of, you know, we're not good enough. We're not all this, but then I think in the

Christian realm, um, we've been told so much to not be prideful, which that can hit, but

also like it's, you start to feel guilty for being like, Oh, I've done this. I've, I've

done this, this, and this. And like, yeah, I should be a little bit of proud about that.

Like, yes, keep it like humble, but to do a like actual evaluation of your life of what

you've done and being able to say those things. I remember I was sitting, um, with Stacy, we

were sitting, having dinner and we were talking and I was like, yeah, so cool. Like we've gotten

to do all these things with church and the ministries and, and all this stuff. And then

I sat, my inner critic was going, stop bragging, stop, stop, stop saying those things. And I

was like, I literally stopped. And I was like, I'm, I'm so sorry. I'm talking about myself

so much or, or, you know, I feel like I'm bragging. And she's like, no, like these are

great accomplishments that you guys are doing. And I was like, yeah, they are. And so there's

a big balance because you can go to extreme in either side. So finding that balance of being

able to be proud of what you've done. Um, going back just a little bit to my story of where

I felt like I was made wrong and messed up when I was made. And, um, the moment that changed

was when I could look in the mirror and I could say, I'm proud of who I'm becoming.

And that was the first time I had ever said I was proud like of myself. Um, so being able

to look at myself and being like, yeah, I'm proud of who I'm becoming. So it's first off

being proud because I know God created me the way he did and, and being proud of the things

that I have done, but then of who I'm becoming, it means I'm not where I want to be. Like

I have a goal. Like I want to get to a certain place or I want to be able to do certain things,

but being able to be content with who I am right now in this moment. And I think that is a big piece

that helps silence that inner critic of just that being content with what you have and, and who you're

around and what you're doing. Even if it's not where you want to be, even if it's not like you want

to achieve all these different things, you might get there, you can get there, but to be able to be

content with where you are is a huge piece. And I mean, we see it in scripture that we're, we were

supposed to be content with where we are. Yeah. Wow. I was not expecting to go humility route to,

to land the show, but, um, that, no, I think that's a good point. It's, it's be, be,

be content with that. You know, the, the, the inner critic, um, almost leans towards pride,

right? I mean, it's, that's, that's the, that's the reverse side of that. To be able to say that,

that the, the inner critic is calling attention to what you, you, you, you think you deserve what

you think you want, but you haven't been able to achieve and being, being content with where you

are and how life has gone for you and how God has gifted you. Um, I mean, that brings the peace,

uh, I'm, I'm hearing that, that maybe we're, we're looking for. Wow. Yeah. Megan Carter landing

the plane. Very well. Dropping it. Wow. I got to tell you that, that I'm literally, I'm like,

how the garbage are we going to land the show? And she just, she just nailed it. Like that's a,

that's a 9.7. Some, some French judge is holding up a sign right now. We just got through the

Olympics. Megan, Megan. Very well played. Megan just gold medal. Yeah. Look at me. And I just

gave Todd a sign to hold up to say 9.7. So even Todd's approving of, of the, I approve of this

message. Okay. So good. Um, Hey, as we're wrapping up, Andy, uh, any closing thoughts? No, this is

great. I mean, obviously just for me, naming, naming the inner critic has been huge. Uh, and I just,

I encourage you to have a little notepad anytime you feel those things and, uh, uh, jot down that

person that comes to your head immediately. Is it Karen? Is it Joffrey? Is it Todd? Is it Chad?

Is it, you know, some of those names? I, I don't mean to offend if your name is Todd or Karen or

Joffrey, uh, you know, whatever name it is, write it down and then start to put that person in the

corner and realize that they are not who you are. That is not who your identity is. Your identity is

wrapped up in Christ, not in Todd or Joffrey or Karen. If your name is Karen.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I, I, it's in the year 2024.

Andy at the church digital. Yes. Normally I'm like, actually that will go through. It's that email

address, even though that's not as real email address, that one will work. So you can email

in there too. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I would, uh, uh, seriously, Karen's out there. Uh, feel free to like,

we change your name. We understand. And so everybody else just deal with it, but Karen,

not Todd. This is not Todd. Yeah. Yeah. Come on. Shut up, Todd. Actually, I, my, my church,

I know Karen's, I know Todd. Uh, and so I, all of these chats, I know chats and I'm, I'm like

internalizing some of my feelings right now. I'm kidding. It's great. Megan is wrapping up any,

any closing thoughts? Uh, I think my biggest thing is like, if you're dealing with any of this,

like talk to somebody, find a safe person. That's literally when I do my podcast at end,

every episode, talk to someone, find someone to talk to. And if you don't have anyone to talk to,

like the church digital, like, uh, like any of us would be willing to sit and talk with you. Um,

I know I do that online and talk to a lot of people and just be able to have a safe space to be able to

share that. Like you said, Jeff, it does take that power away from that thought, that feeling

that you can start to just take a step forward. And so talk to someone is always my go-to.

Yeah. As, as, as embarrassing, as hard, as difficult, whatever your perceptions are about it,

um, putting words on it to someone, um, it can revolutionize, uh, you. Um, and, and it gives

you a completely different, different outlook and weight. There've been several situations in my own

life that, that just putting words on it, um, and, and, and giving that, giving that information to

someone to process. It takes the weight off of you. Um, it, there, the burden's not there. And,

uh, you're, it's a, it's a completely different outlook on that. So I would encourage as well,

Megan. Uh, and she's right. The church digital, we, we'd love to help, uh, people process through

this. So, uh, I mean, I'll tell you what, just even to wrap up the show, I'll give you off my cell

phone and text me four, eight, four, three, two, four, eight, seven, two, four. Uh, if it's a U S

based, uh, plus one, if you're international four, eight, four, three, two, four, eight, seven, two,

four, you can go and text me there. And I would love to either help you myself or get you connected

with someone who can, uh, help you through that Megan or otherwise. Um, and that is, uh, that's not a

fake email account that will work. That actually is my cell phone number. So you can do that.

I mean, I guess you can call me, but who calls anymore? Who calls anymore? Like I, the whole,

like I actually, I never hear my phone ring. Like I, I just don't even know what that means.

We need to do a podcast series on this. How is it that children and we can end, I'm sorry.

Uh, how is it that children walking around don't know that this thing is for calling? I'm holding up

my phone for those listening on audio and instead just turn on FaceTime and they're just walking around

with FaceTime all the time. How is that? Like they just think it's a FaceTime machine. That's all it is.

FaceTime audio is confusing to me.

Yes. Like it is. I, it's like Apple is just flat out breaking the rules of the, of my bell. You know, it's like, no, no, no. You talk on the phone. No, you don't. It's cheaper to actually talk on FaceTime audio. Um, like at some point, AT&T just needs to stop offering voice services. I, you know, Andy, I'm glad you brought this up. I fully agree.

Kids these days. Um, yeah. Kids these days. Unbelievable. St. Bear. I didn't even know St. Bear was in, in, uh, in here, man. I'm, I'm good.

Is it St. Bear? I've always thought it was St. Bear. Uh, no, it's, it's, it's St. Bear.

It's St. Bear, right? I mean, you can't, you can't tell. I've been calling this guy St. Bear. So don't tell me I've been, my inner critic just exploded on me, man.

Oh my gosh. I am looking so stupid right now. I don't even know what this guy's name is.

That's all I got. Man, it's good to see you. Glad you come on, Mr. Bear. Big Bear.

Big Bear. Hey, um, I, I, you know, are we, is this going to stay in the show, Andy? Are we going to cut this out?

I can do whatever you want, Jeff. I'm your editor.

Man, I don't know. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, I, I, I give the power to you. I'm empowering you to handle these situations.

So, uh, we're going to play.

I just need the magic words for, for Megan and for Andy. This is, I just need those.

I tell you, you want it, you want to do it since you've heard it over 50 times and in editing.

Yeah. Hello, Annika's Caker. Good to see you. First time chatter, long time caller, uh, first time listener, whatever.

Uh, flat cap says stay. So I guess we're going to stay. Hey, uh, we're going to land the plane.

So for Megan Carter, for Jeff Reed, I'm Andy Mage. This is the, this is the closing of the church digital.

We'll talk with you later.

I give it a six.

I tried, man. I tried.

It was just rough.

Like you, you were really good at the beginning, but you kind of tailed off.

I peered out.