EP 325 - The Digital Missionary Flywheel - God's Best Kept Secret for Digital Missionaries: Mobilize

Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast.

Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church.

But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions.

Is disciple making possible digitally?

How should we approach the digital mission field?

Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space?

Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this?

Whether you're a big or small church,

the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church,

digitally and physically.

And now here's your host, Jeff Reed.

All right. I guess that's working. Yes, that is working.

You know what? In all seriousness, when you get old, your eyes stop working.

And I look like a bumbling idiot half the time,

because honestly, I can't see anything around me.

Like, I cannot read. I can't see. Everything's blurry.

You know, I need the glasses, but then I don't need the glasses.

Sometimes, like, it's, it's, I really, I need to get my life figured out.

If somebody could help me figure out my life, that would be great.

Hey, Jeff here, founder of the Church Digital episode.

I want to say this is 325.

I hope this is 325.

I was supposed to look that up in the break, and I forgot to as I was writing this.

But episode 325 here of the Church Digital Podcast.

We're doing a season here on the digital missionary.

We're using the language flywheel, the digital missionary flywheel.

We're going to get into it here a little bit.

I'm going to give you a sneak peek.

We're going to be digging into scripture here.

We talk in Bible all the time.

It's more technology than strategy.

But today, in this topic, we're going to be doing a deep dive on scripture.

And in a verse, 2 Timothy 2, 2.

And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses,

entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.

And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses,

entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.

Excited to get into this as we're talking about mobilization in the digital missionary flywheel.

But before we get into that, hey, we got a big thing coming up here right around the corner

that I want to put on your radar next week, next Tuesday.

It's a week from right now at this moment.

Tuesday, let's call it 2-11, February 11th, 1 p.m. Eastern New York time.

We're doing a town hall meeting.

This is where we want to hear from you.

And so we're going to be streaming as my dog barks.

Once again, seriously, if anybody wants a mutt, Obadiah, free shipping globally.

We'd love to.

Like we even wrap it up nicely in a package, punch some holes in the side so it can breathe.

And it'll be great.

But seriously, town hall meeting, Tuesday, February 11th, next week, 1 p.m. Eastern.

We're going to be, this is the town hall.

We, the church digital leadership, we want to listen to you.

We want to hear from you.

What's going on in ministry and how can we help?

By the way, we've got some comments coming in.

We've got Steve Reed, my brother from another mother, still trying to figure out glasses.

Have only one good eye.

Almost, I can relate to that.

I understand.

I'm not even going to try.

Hey, you soon on me.

I'll just say, sue me.

Hello.

Hello to you.

I'm glad you're joining.

We want to hear from you in the town hall meeting.

We, the church digital, rolling out some big stuff coming up here in the next week or so.

We're doing some big announcements coming up right around the corner.

And so town hall meeting, you want to hear what's coming up here at the church digital.

Excited about the road ahead.

But at the same time, we want to hear from you.

What's working, what's not working, and how can we help you be better digital missionaries?

How can we equip you to be missionaries?

We're going to be talking more about that mobilization here in a little bit.

But next week, yes, thank you.

Flexcap is reminding me, 1 p.m. next week, Eastern New York.

Like, right now, whatever time it is, if you're watching this live on YouTube, seven days.

Actually, I guess it would be that way.

No, it would be that way.

I was right.

Seven days later, we're going to get into that next week.

It's a lot of onboarding and ongoing stuff.

How do we onboard?

How do we help people get connected into the equipping and mobilization to the network of the church digital?

How can we provide better resources to equip and mobilize you?

Opportunities to help you get connected with others on the journey.

A network of partners that are literally in place to empower you in your ministry.

Some really, really exciting things coming up here in the church digital.

And that is going to be 1 p.m. Eastern New York time next week, Tuesday, February 11th.

Of course, my friend, you are more than welcome for that.

I would love to meet you so that I can understand how to pronounce that name.

That the bad side of digital ministry, and I'm guilty of this, is that I am horrible at pronouncing names.

And when I see you, sir, I don't even know where to start.

And so forgive me, I would normally be very relational in saying your name and greeting you.

But it's interesting.

I'm in Miami, and so there's a lot of Hispanics around me.

And I have tried with grace to speak Spanish in some of these situations.

About a decade ago, I had a woman come up to me and say, you need to stop habla Espanol because you insult my language.

I need to stop speaking as Spanish because I insult their language.

So very cool.

Hey, listen, we're doing a meetup here.

Greg Saldy.

Hey, are you from Finland?

I'm from France.

If you are, we'd love to see Europe represented.

We're from Finland.

Yes.

We got a global connection happening, right?

This is what I freaking love about the church digital.

We are taking this thing, the idea of digital missionaries global.

We're going to be talking more.

Oh, my gosh.

It's so good.

Both of you, Greg.

It's great to see you as well, my friend.

We need to keep you around because we're going to be talking more about this here in a little bit.

Steve, getting so excited.

How are we supposed to wait a week?

That's what I do, bro.

This is, if I am nothing, I am a hype machine.

Now, I am very fortunate in life that I've surrounded myself with the leaders that can actually deliver on the hype that I'm talking about.

Like, this is a really sweet spot of the church digital because I'm not just talking crazy.

Like, we've got a system that's operating, that's meeting the craziness.

And so, which is what we're going to talk about here.

Oh, my gosh.

All this is setting up so well.

I just, we need to get into it.

Comments, feel free to chip in.

We love what we're talking about here.

Now, remember, we're talking about the flywheel.

You've heard me talk about the digital missionary framework before.

Connect, community, equip, mobilize.

The people we connect with in physical and digital space, we want to invite them into a digital community

to establish trust, to build relationships, digital evangelism, digital discipleship.

This happens best in community.

And through that relationship, we want to help them discover not only who Jesus is, but equip them,

help them find what Jesus is calling them to do, and maybe equip them on how to do that and mobilize them,

send them out to do what God's calling them to do.

And so, we've been using the language framework.

It's a framework.

It needs to be contextualized.

How my friend Greg is going to do that in France, believe it or not,

it's probably different than how my friend that I can't say his name is doing it in Finland,

which is going to be different than how I'm doing it in Miami.

And, you know, we've got my friend here, Steve Reed, who's probably an hour and a half away from me.

You know, he lives on the west coast of Florida.

How he's going to do it is going to be completely different than how I would do it in Miami.

And that's the beauty of digital ministry is it's a framework.

It's not a formula.

It's meant to be contextualized.

Now, what's interesting, as I look and I see how missionaries are operating,

and this is really the importance of calling it a flywheel,

is missionaries are really operating really maybe one or two of the areas.

Like, they're really good digital missionaries.

They're really good at connection, you know, creating the content, the social media,

but they haven't figured out how to do that community piece.

And so they're creating a lot of, you know, a lot of connection, a lot of noise up top,

but they haven't figured out how to really build disciple-making relationship because they haven't been able to get them into community.

And the social media, just the tools, don't allow for a rich disciple-making relationship on average.

Some can, sure.

But on average, it's not going to get there.

And the same thing, a community.

A lot of people are creating a community, but they don't have connection.

Or, you know, there's planters and people that are great at equipping and mobilization,

but they're not good at the top part.

They're good at the bottom of the funnel, so to speak, but not at the top.

Okay, I'm going to take a break here.

It's pronounced.

Good, sir.

All right, I'm going to try this right here.

Yudin Kamitsky, it's like.

Okay, so Yudin Kamitsky, Yudin Kamitsky, Yudin Kamitsky.

I hope that's good enough, sir.

Hey, you know what?

We need to, listen, do thechurch.digital slash standup.

Thechurch.digital slash standup.

You can book a 15-minute meeting with me.

I want to meet you and actually have you tell me your name so I can understand it.

But Yudin Kamitsky, thank you.

We'll pretend for that now, and you can tell me how good or bad I was on that.

But this is the deal with the flywheel, is that if you get all four happening,

connect, community, quit, mobilize, the mobilize reproduces,

and now you've got two connect, community, quit, mobilize.

And if that multiplies, then you've got four.

So you're seeing the bad pyramid scheme happening as a result of this.

But what's happening is the idea multiplies.

It supports itself.

And the challenge is, is that as digital missionaries, we don't, it's hard to do all four

as an individual, which is really where, okay, you know, what is God calling you?

We talked about this several times.

What is God calling you to do?

And then understanding what your place is and maybe who you need to bring along into the journey.

And so this is the beauty of equipping digital missionaries, the course that we're, the cohorts

that we're developing, because we're helping explain the whole framework and you're getting

a better understanding of, of what role you want to be.

And then maybe also as a, um, as a place trying to figure out who you can work with, who you

can partner with, or who you need to grow and develop to come alongside you in that, that

journey.

And so the, the flywheel, it, maybe you don't even know flywheel.

Like this is, if you're, this is the first time here with us.

I've been around for a while.

Meet my friend.

Uh, this is, uh, Funko Pop Da Vinci.

Say hi, Funko Pop Da Vinci.

Uh, so Funko Pop Da Vinci is a, uh, he's an inventor.

He's, he's a artist.

You've obviously, you know who Da Vinci is and, uh, the, his, uh, Funko Pop form here.

So Funko Pop Da Vinci or the real Da Vinci, he invented this device called the flywheel.

And the beauty of the flywheel is it was, uh, it was had a crank on top and it was, I was

almost a physics experiment, right?

And he had four wood blocks that were on chains that were tied to this crank wheel.

And what he discovered is as he spun the, the flywheel, the chains and the wood, the, the,

um, what, what's the term?

I'm, I'm, I just lost centripetal force.

The centripetal force of, of the wood coming out on the chains, he would stop spinning and

the wheel would keep going because of the force of the wood blocks being sustained and keeping

the energy going around the, his energy stopped cranking, but the multiplication force of the

flywheel kept it going on and on.

And, and, and, and I would suggest to you, as we talk about the four parts of the framework,

connect, community, equip, and mobilize, that if we can figure out how to do this, how to

get those four parts working, we're going to see that multiplication effect where our ministry

goes on and on.

This is what, you know, I would talk about connection without community.

You know, I said this previously, and this, this may upset some people.

And if so, you can, you can add me, you know, come find me on discord or WhatsApp.

We'd love a conversation, sit down with you.

My heart pure.

When I say this, if we're connecting with people and we're not inviting them into a community,

well, that connection is powerless because the power is not in connection.

Connections of vanity metric.

The power is in community.

If, if we are creating a community without trying to disciple and, and multiply through

that, um, without equipping people for, for, through discipleship community without discipleship,

what's the point?

Why are you doing it in the first place?

You got to have some sort of equipping a place.

And, and if we're equipping, if, if we're discipling people without mobilizing them, well,

that's reckless.

Like we're, we're, we're giving people this, this authority.

We're giving people this knowledge.

And I mean, it's, it's like saying, here's a machine gun, have a nice life.

What, what are they going to do with that?

How are, how are they?

And so that's where we need that mobilization in place that, that relationship that we need

that, you know, I hesitate to say this word, we need accountability.

You know, it's interesting.

The whole idea of accountability, uh, you know, I've used accountability here on the podcast.

I remember having, you know, it's interesting.

I use accountability a lot with, uh, the microchurch pastors that we've interviewed historically

on, on the church digital.

And I would say things like, you know, what does accountability look like?

You know, as a, as a, as a microchurch network where you're trying to hold volunteer microchurch

leaders, uh, accountable.

And, and, and, you know, I remember Rob Wagner said to me, he said, Jeff, well, accountability

is like a bad word.

Like you, you can't, you can't say accountability.

And it's, and it's like, okay, well, what is, what, what do you say then?

What, what is it, what does it look like?

And I mean, we can wordsmith this thing all day long.

We can figure out what it is.

But the, the heart of the conversation is, is that we want to help some accountability

happen around how we're effectively using these tools.

And, you know, maybe that's okay.

Like you're, you need some help in community.

Let's get you connected to someone that can help you in the community.

Or, you know, you're really not interested.

You're really good at the equipping and mobilization, but your tops, you know, who can we help you partner

with?

Or how can we provide some training?

Like, you know, I've, I've told the story, God, God didn't tell me to plant a digital church

or to be a digital missionary.

If God did, my life would have been easier because I'd be doing it.

Instead, I was clearly, you know, God told me help.

And so as, as a result of that, the church digital, we're wanting to come alongside and,

and, and help organizations figure that out and, and a be the accountability for digital

missionaries that are out there that are willing to walk with us and, and benefit from the,

the resources and the opportunities that we have.

But secondly, I think there's an opportunity to train accountability in the, in the ministry

that you are doing.

Let's go back to second Timothy two, two, like I'm going to get, I'm going to get a little

preachy in this one.

I, I, I just, I want to put a disclaimer on this upfront.

It is going to be a little graphic.

Um, yeah, it's going to be a little graphic with this one.

Uh, second Timothy two, two, and the things you have heard me say in the presence of many

witnesses and trust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.

Now, what, what I love about this, this one verse in second Timothy, Paul is speaking to

Timothy or writing to Timothy.

And, and there's, there's five different generations of people in this, when this one verse, there

are five generations of people listed in this one verse.

Like if, if I almost, I probably should have created a slide and a graphic and did a share

screen just so you can see it.

But kind of what, if you're watching on YouTube or if you're listening, just, just imagine with

me and the things you Timothy have heard me, Paul say in the presence of many witnesses,

the people that are witnessing Paul entrust to reliable people, the people Timothy's witnessing

to who will also be qualified to teach others, the second generation away from Timothy.

All right.

So let me flatten this out.

You've got Paul's presence was to generate Paul's, uh, what's the word presence of many

witnesses.

You got Paul's witnesses, which is generation one.

You've got Paul, which is generation two, who's witnessing to Timothy's generation three,

who's now witnessing to Timothy's training others when, uh, generation four reliable people

who are now, uh, qualified to teach others, others being their generation five.

So when it comes towards a multiplication or a reproduction, like you're seeing that happen

five times, it's worth noting here.

And as digital missionaries, we know this, I mean, Paul's freaking the father of the church

movement, right?

Now, Paul's training Timothy, who's training others.

Timothy's not supposed to like, you know, take people to Paul so that Paul can teach them

or, you know, it's not even going to the witnesses, the people that are holding Paul

accountable.

Um, like Paul's training Timothy to train others who will teach others.

There's a reproduction level.

You're stitching.

It does digital missionaries.

You understand that as digital churches, um, you know, or as even in the church, ecclesiology,

modern church movement in the U S they may struggle with that.

You know, I I've had, I've had pastors.

I don't want to live on this, but a pastor has come to me.

Hey, your job is to bring people to the church Sunday morning.

You do your job.

You get them in the door.

Let me do my job and witness to them.

Share Jesus.

In 2025, that will reach some people.

It's not going to reach all people.

And so we need to adopt more of a relational evangelist approach, which is what we preach

all day long here at the church digital bless and how to do that.

But what you're, you're seeing now is, is a generational approach where Paul's training

Timothy to train other people, generation four, to now train other people, generation five.

Paul's witnesses, generation one, Paul, generation two, Timothy, generation three, uh, training

others, generation four, Timothy training others, generation four, who's training others, generation

five.

And we wonder why the church still exists 2000 years later.

God ordained this idea, this movement.

And it literally, like you can read in scripture where things are, uh, where, where gospel is

happening and the gospel spread.

And everyone was everyone in Asia, tall-skinned Kiwi and all the scripture, everyone in Asia

knew the word.

Um, and so that's, by the way, tall-skinned Kiwi checks in.

He's from New Zealand.

It's good to see.

Um, and so like, it's, it's just, it's beautiful to see the, the point here where, where scripture

is, is talking about the gospel being spread individually.

Now, yeah, Paul's standing in front of hundreds at some point, maybe in thousands and writing

the script and writing his, his evergreen, the letters that are in the Bible that are now

influencing us today.

The evergreen content, the Bible itself is, is, you know, continuing on outside of time

and space, uh, which is phenomenal.

Maybe a little science fiction, but it's incredible to see how even some of the digital concepts

that, that we believe asynchronous communication, um, uh, remote discipleship.

Well, crap, the Bible has been doing that for two generations.

There's nothing new, but let, let me bring it back.

We have a responsibility to multiply.

We, digital missionaries, we, people that are connected with the church digital, we, I would

almost argue Christians today, we have a responsibility to multiply.

Yeah.

Let me back up.

Let me, let me say it a different way.

Billy Graham said, and I've said this in recent podcasts, this quote is really resonating with

me lately.

It's, it's the Holy Spirit's job to convict.

It's God's job to judge.

It's our job.

It's our job as Christians to love.

And so my, my, my challenge to you as digital missionaries is how are we showing love on

platforms like Twitch, on platforms like discord in spaces like virtual reality or video games

or in Facebook is, is Twitch does a Twitter does X give you an opportunity to show love,

to show grace, to show Jesus in that space.

Can we connect with people in a new way using those platforms and show the love that we're

called to do?

I think we can.

And using this flywheel, we've got the opportunity to even multiply that, that share.

Now it's our job to love.

It's the Holy Spirit's job to convict.

And so if we're sharing Christ, I, I, I, I would argue that's a win.

If somebody actually finds Christ, that's not my job.

It's my responsibility.

It's the Holy Spirit's job.

And so I, I, I, I don't want to celebrate what God is, what the Holy Spirit is doing, or

at least I don't want to claim responsibility for it.

I remember the first time I preached a sermon and a kid accepted Christ.

I was beside myself.

I was jumping up and down.

Literally, I was like a 19 year old kid.

I preached a sermon and, and two kids at a, at a, at a winter camp accepted Christ.

And, and it was, and it was funny that the youth pastor kind of pulled me aside at some

point and he's like, I'm, I'm glad for you.

Uh, but just acknowledge God used you.

Not you using God and, and, and, and the power in the celebration was, was God's.

It wasn't, wasn't mine.

And it would, honestly, that was conversation.

Thank you, David Parks stuck with me 25 years later, more than.

I would suggest that for us, the celebration is the courage to have the gospel conversations.

Who are we sharing Jesus with in digital space and physical space?

Who, what are these gospel conversations look like?

That's for me, that's the, that's the braveness of a digital missionary is having those conversations

with people.

Once again, I, if, if all we're doing our social media posts, I don't, I don't know that that's

a celebration, 20,000 people saw my post and it only cost me $1,500 to get enough people

to click over.

Well, crap.

I just spent a lot of money.

Like, that's not a movement of God.

That's, that's a movement of, of, um, George Washington, the dollar bill.

If you're an American, that makes sense.

Um, and so like, it's, it's, what are we, what are we measuring?

We're measuring the ability to have individual conversations with people about Jesus.

We're measuring those gospel conversations.

That's to me, that's the thing that we're, we're responsible for.

And to that end, the multiplication aspects of this, the mobilization aspects of this,

I want to ask the question, who are you having conversations with you as an individual right

now, who are you having conversations with?

Who's the Paul in your life?

Who right now is mentoring and discipling you and challenging you at, at a deeper level?

Who are the Barnabases in your life?

Who are the people that you are challenging?

And, and, and, and by the way, who's the, that, that are challenging you at an equal level.

And by the way, who's the Timothy?

Who are the people that you are mentoring, mentoring and discipling and growing so that they can tell

others?

You know, it's interesting.

Greg Salady is a preacher.

Preacher is preaching today.

I am not a preacher.

I play one on TV.

I'm not even an influencer.

I play one on TV, but this is a message that's worth preaching.

You know, with, with the church digital, I'm a dude talking into a microphone and I'm going

to be really honest.

There are seven people watching this YouTube stream live right now.

And so, you know, what this does asynchronously after the fact, there'll be a couple hundred

that'll listen to it, to podcasts.

There'll be a couple hundred that'll watch and engage this.

And so me alone, my content will die at about 500 people.

The beauty of this is, thank you, Greg, for asking the hard question is where does it go

from here?

Now, I've had plenty of conversations with Greg and I know, I know the heart of behind

what he's doing.

I know tall, skinny Kiwi and what he's doing in, in New Zealand.

I've talked with a flat cap.

I've, I've talked with a Bible with the battles.

I mean, I love this guy.

I'm excited what, what he's doing.

Actually, that's a new YouTube channel for you, man.

I don't, I don't think I have to Marcus.

I don't think I've seen that from you yet.

Excited about that.

The point is, is that these people are, for me, they're the, they're the ones that I'm

walking with.

They're the, the Barnabases where, you know, they're speaking into my life and I'm speaking

into theirs.

And so they're, they're challenging me and I've got, you know, I can go through the, the

Timothys, the people that I'm pouring into that next generation that's coming along.

And by the way, even a guy that's been doing 25 years of digital ministry, I got the Pauls

that, that, that they're speaking into me.

Now they're not necessarily digitally ministry minded, but there are people, a scuba Steve,

for example, he's not watching this and I don't think this will hit his radar, but he's,

he's one that has challenged me in, in, in, in a big way, by the way, you know, I just happen

to have this book right here on my desk, the, the Timothy initiative, the guys that, and we

don't use this in the church digital, the Timothy initiative context, but their leadership,

you know, just like with, um, no place left, the E3 crew, those two discipleship organizations

really formed and structurated my worldview now.

And, and, and so when I look at the Pauls, when I look at that circle of witnesses that

are watching, I, I, I honestly, I feel like I'm Paul surrounded by DeMarcus battle and, and, and, uh,

Greg solidies and flat caps and Kiwis and people that I don't know how to pronounce their name.

I'm sorry, sir.

Those are the witnesses that are watching me as I'm now hoping to train that next generation.

By the way, I'm teaching an EDM class today at 3 PM Eastern, which is another example of how we are

passing down the equipping digital missionary mindset and casting vision so that others can

cast the vision, not just how to be like a digital missionary to create content, but to be able to

invest in people's lives, to share Jesus with the generation using tools and methods to reach people

that aren't going to go into physical buildings, do something different to reach someone different.

And so like, who's, who are the people that are investing in you?

You know, it's, it's interesting.

I, I talked about this in one of the communities.

I think I shared this in, in discord recently.

I, I, I started getting back.

I bought a new car, um, which is a funny story.

I bought, I traded in my old Jeep.

I bought a Tesla.

I'll, I'll tell that story later.

Cause I honestly like, and this is a true story.

I don't drive real well.

My, my legs aren't, yeah, EDM's equipping digital missionaries.

Thank you, FLAC app.

I kind of flub sometimes with that, but I don't, I don't drive my car, uh, real well.

Like my feet, uh, I, I don't feel my shoes.

Sometimes my shoes slides off my feet.

And actually I found myself intentionally trying to step on the brake a couple of times and accidentally

stepped on the gas and car lunges forward.

And, you know, fortunately no issues happened as a result, but you know, I, I just, I don't

trust myself driving a vehicle.

And so actually full self-driving on, on the test list, I think they're on version like

13 or 14 of the software, the, uh, the AI it's really good.

Like I, I, I, I will say that the majority of the times that I drive a vehicle now it's,

it's with AI driving.

And so you can pray for me, but actually I trust the AI more than I do myself.

The reason I say all that story is nothing to do where I was going, but I started listening

to more podcasts now that I'm in the car enjoying driving and not feeling like I was the risks

that I was previously.

So I'm helping drive the kids around a little bit more and, and, and doing that and teaching

my daughter how to drive.

So I started listening to podcasts again.

It's a long story just to get the podcast, but the, um, one of the podcasts that I've been

listening to is entrepreneurs on fire from a, from a secular standpoint, not a Christian

standpoint.

And EO fire, uh, heavily influenced what we're doing here.

The version one's better than version none get out there beta, like all that non-scripture

type language, but the things that, that motivates us, um, to, in, in our operations, or at least

me at a personal level that all came from John Lee Dumas and, and EO fire.

And so you can listen to it.

You can not listen to it.

I, there's, there's rarely cussing.

I don't think there's ever cussing actually, but it's, it's a lot of outside of the box

thinking and ideology.

But he says like, one of the things that I love about was, you know, one of his, like

his catchphrases that he always falls back to for me doing something different to reach

someone different.

He always says, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

And that, that really, that, that challenged me to kind of think back about who I am investing

in and who I'm allowing to invest in me.

And, and it's interesting that, that mindset, like, I'll, I'll just be honest, like you're

even things like, you know, I used to obsess over, and this is me.

Don't, don't project this on you.

If it doesn't fit, the shoe doesn't, if the, you know, spit out the bones, eat the meat.

Um, like you're, you're the, the five people you spend the most time with.

I mean, to be honest, I stopped like playing around with games on my phone.

Cause it's like, you know, that's that time that I'm spending with that.

I don't know that it's, it's helpful.

And so like, I actually, I shifted towards reading more books and getting back into more

podcasts, just as I was kind of re-engaging with this idea of, of moving beyond.

And that's, that's, that's at a, that's at a me level at a personal level, because that's

what's, that's, what's motivating me.

That's what's challenging me.

And, and, and I want to suggest that as digital missionaries, this is counter-cultural, right?

A little bit because it's counter-culture in, in, in digital.

Like if I'm, if I'm a streamer, I want to get like massive numbers.

I want thousands of people watching me on Twitch.

The idea of multiplying myself into a competitor, a potential competitor who can then work against

me and maybe take some of my audience away from me.

Well, it doesn't, it doesn't work that way.

Like that's a horrible idea.

I would lose my influence instead of gaining influence.

I'm not giving it to other people.

That's counter-cultural to digital, but I would suggest it's actually very practical in context

of, of scripture, where we have to start to think that way.

Yeah.

Um, we need to start thinking about multiplying and mobilizing.

Oh my gosh, choking up over here.

Just the idea, you know, I'm, I'm getting feedback here.

Flat cap version one's better than version none.

Yeah, totally, totally about that.

It's the, the idea as we're multiplying into others and as we're sending them out, we cannot

effectively reach everybody, but there are people that are equipped to reach someone.

Flat cap and I are, are very similar people.

Actually, I just had lunch with flat cap or a late breakfast with flat cap Sunday.

First time.

It's not the first time I've met you flat cap, but first time I've seen you in two or three

years, I would guess physically.

And so sat down with him and just had a good conversation.

Fact is with flat cap, the people that he is going to reach are different than me.

Um, he's a little older than me, maybe a little more wiser, a little more experienced under the belt.

Um, you know, he's, he's got, his kids are older, uh, more, more ministry years, different experience.

And, and his, his heart for streamers and in that space, completely different than me.

Like he is a streamer.

I play a streamer on TV.

And so the people that he is going to reach are different than the people that I'm going

to reach.

Throw Jason Morris in the mix.

The people that Jason Morris is going to reach is completely different than who I'm going to

reach.

And so, and that's the beauty of contextualization.

I just dropped and let's, you know, throw Andy in the mix.

Well, the people that Andy's going to mix as hardcore gaming as he is, it's going to be

completely different than who any of us are going to reach.

And so collectively, you've got four old white men, Americans balding across the Layton's

got a little hair, but don't, don't let him kid you.

Like he wears the hats to cover up the baldness that's happening.

Don't tell anybody you got four old white men who are reaching digitally completely

different contexts.

And so the, the ability for everybody to reach for one person to reach everyone, digitally

trying to reach everyone, you reach everyone, you reach no one contextualize, break it down,

simplify this.

It's so good.

Flat cap saying here, different experiences help you connect with different people.

It's true.

And this is where you need to thank counterculture because remember digitally.

Culture tells you it's all about the connection, get the views, spend the money, get the conversions,

but it's all, it's all connecting at the top level.

Social media leads, followers, likes, comments, and that, that only gets you so far until a nice

hat, flat cap, uh, until you run out of energy up at the top and people start bolting and leaving

because the connections are shallow.

That's where you need the community to get people to stick.

You know, it's interesting.

Even talking about this idea of accountability, who's challenging you.

You know, I had a, I had a pastor, it was interesting.

He was having lunch as breakfast with, um, one of the guys who's helping us organizationally,

uh, one of my coaches.

And, um, and, and he was talking about a mutual friend and he was like, Hey, this guy was like

coaching me on how to be an executive pastor.

And, and, and he said like, this is, this is serious, but he's like, if, if your campus pastors

are not reading a book right now, uh, they should be fired.

Who's this level of, of challenging?

I think that's a little bit extreme, but like who's as, as digital missionaries, we're thinking

outside the box.

Who is challenging you?

Who is, who is mentoring you?

Who's helping you?

Who's helping hold you accountable?

Who is, uh, who are, who are you challenging?

Who are you walking with?

That's even helping you carry the burden.

There's a lot of burden.

You cannot do this alone.

The idea of accountability is, is, is, you know, some would say it's, it's a dirty word.

You know, it was interesting as I was just kind of writing through notes.

I actually, I found myself, you know, reflecting back to one of my favorite Marvel movies.

This is embarrassing.

Marvel Cinematic Universe.

It's not too embarrassing.

Captain America, Civil War.

Watching Captain America, Civil War, I always thought I was Team Cap.

Like I sided with Cap.

Now the movie, the cinematography, this, like it, it was designed to make you think Team Cap.

Let's, let's lean into it.

But I mean, at the end of the day, Team Iron Man had like the whole thing with Iron Man.

But what they wanted was there was all this power and influence, but there was no accountability.

Yeah, okay, maybe it was the wrong organization, whatever.

And, you know, I don't want to, I don't, I don't want to go too far on this.

But the ability to have an organizational structure to help, to guide and into a line is a big opportunity.

I don't, I don't, I don't know that I'm Team Stark.

I have to go back and watch the movie and actually think how serious I want to stand against this idea of Team Stark versus Team Cap.

You can, you know, throw it in chat, you know, email, text me, 484-324-8724.

I'd love to know, you know, if maybe that idea, maybe you are Team Stark because of the accountability.

But it comes down to, we do not need to be alone in this journey.

And this is the heart behind what we're doing with the Church Digital.

We're launching, right around the corner, a series of outposts.

These are, and you'll hear about this next week in a big way where we're creating decentralized networks and platforms and places that are designed to encourage, explore, and experiment and empower.

Let me say this a different way.

We're giving you accountability and network and space to, with others, to be encouraged, to be encouraged in the ministry that you're doing, to explore new platforms, new spaces, to experiment with new ideas or new techniques, and to be empowered to do ministry through the resources and connections of organizations that are working with our network.

This is a huge way.

This is a huge way to come alongside others and understand this.

Not accountability like you're being limited, but accountability where you're being given and multiplied.

One plus one may not equal two.

One plus one may actually equal four in this process and five because you're going to start to see not just an addition mindset, but a multiplication as you're working along with others.

And by the way, if those others can help strengthen the other parts of the flywheel where you can find somebody in your outpost to maybe come alongside and help you at the community level, your weakness, I mean, is that not a win?

And even like internal coaching as we learn to care for others in the ministry of what's not just happening in our ministry space, but in other ministry space.

If we start thinking kingdom over castle, the idea of being mobilized isn't, isn't a bad thing.

It's a great thing.

I'd suggest it's a God thing.

We'll get into platforms and places later, but second Timothy two, two, and the things you have heard me say, me, Paul, in the presence of many witnesses, entrust them to reliable people.

Who will then be qualified to teach others.

Paul, Timothy audience, um, reliable people teach others the idea of accountability, the idea of, of mobilizing and structure and generations.

It's right there.

Paul literally modeled accountability.

Now I want to, I want to say this.

Um, I want to say this like accountability in digital space is, is hard.

I get it.

You know, it's like, you know, tall, skinny Kiwi is, is talking on here.

Greg Saldy, uh, is talking, Steve reads, you know, talking like there's a, there's an interesting chat.

That's kind of happening off in the, in the chat as I'm doing this live off, not off topic, but tangent.

And, uh, to be honest, I've never met any of these people.

I'm, by the way, I'm fine.

The conversation is happening.

So I'm not, I'm not criticizing that.

I love that.

But, you know, tall, skinny Kiwi is in, uh, New Zealand, 15, 16, 17 hours away from me in, in Miami, Florida.

How am I supposed to hold tall, skinny Kiwi accountable?

It's interesting.

We, we, I remember having a conversation with Ed Stetzer on one of his podcasts or one of my podcasts.

I don't know.

I don't, I don't remember.

Um, but church discipline came up and, and, you know, we talked about how to do church, what church discipline would look like in digital space.

It's fine, Kiwi.

Um, we talked about how to do discipline in digital space and it was, um, like he, he just could not comprehend the idea of, of discipline, uh, without the physicality.

How are you supposed to hold somebody accountable if, um, how are you supposed to hold somebody accountable if, if you can't actually see them?

And, and, and it was interesting.

The, yeah, it's interesting.

Flat cap's actually asking the exact question right now.

Um, how, how does local church hold someone accountable when they move to the church down the road?

Physicality is actually a horrible accountability tool.

Now what's often attached to a physicality, and this is my point, flat caps teasing it right up the top, is relationship.

Relationship makes a great accountability tool.

I have a relationship with flat cap.

And, and in, I would say an intense one for two to three years, I have a, a growing relationship with Steve Reed over the past two months.

Kiwi, I feel like I've known Kiwi for decades, although it's probably only been a year or two that we've actually interacted.

Although that dude's been around for so long.

I told him the first time I met him, I was like, I've, I've known you for years and we've never actually connected before.

Relationship is what provides the ability for accountability.

And so if we're trying to do accountability, if we're trying to do church discipline without relationship, if we're trying to lead people without relationship digitally, it's going to fail.

I tell our leadership team, I tell our board, I've, I've asked the, the, the, the church digital board.

I was like, Hey, um, be involved in the church digital.

I don't want you to lead.

I don't even want you to like, you know, feel like you've got to do stuff, but know the people like know the, the, the voices, know the leaders because we don't want to lead by, you know, this is getting back to Maxwell's five levels of leadership.

I think it was Maxwell.

Um, we want to, uh, we want to, uh, we want to, uh, we want to lead by relationship.

I don't, I don't want to tell people what to do because I'm the founder.

I don't want Layton to tell people what to do because he's the relationship guy.

Uh, I, I want to be able to, uh, to relationally lead.

We want to lead by, by relationship.

We want to, we want to hold accountable through relationship.

You know, should we ever get to the place of church discipline or organizational discipline?

Even that is done through relationship.

And so the, the importance level is to be relationally connected with others.

I mean, even just look at second, I keep doing second Timothy two, two, that's, that's all I need to do.

And the things you have heard me say, they were around in the presence of many witnesses.

The witnesses were around in trust to reliable people, more than one who will also be qualified to teach others.

Their, the relationship is baked all in that tall, skinny QE sads here.

Uh, Bricks church is where people turn up for two hours since they're dressed up and smiling.

Digital church presents ourselves daily with all our faults.

Accountability is possible online.

Oh my gosh.

Kiwi, you make me smile.

Um, yeah.

By the way, this is the podcast that, um, if, if my, if I have a pastor friend who's a lead pastor of a church in Alabama and, uh, he does not, uh, he's, he's not active with church digital,

but he will, um, he'll engage with me every once in a while.

And we were just friends.

He's a mentor of mine growing up.

He was a Paul in my life as we were starting the church digital.

And, um, he will early on, he texted me and he's like, Hey Jeff, it's a good thing that you don't work for the physical church anymore.

And I kind of laughed.

I was like, yeah, I know that.

But why, why are you saying that now?

And he's like, yeah, cause if, if any physical church pastor, lead pastor heard your podcast today, they'd fire you on the spot.

You know, we're, we're pulling a thread that doesn't necessarily vibe sometimes.

And we're thankful.

There are churches that are financially partnering with us and the churches that are aligning physical churches that are aligning with the idea of digital missionaries.

Because in the heart, you know, even things that like Kiwi just said there, the idea of mobilization, multiplication, that it's not just about the lead pastor.

Like I'm pulling on some threads that the U S physical churches is going to be struggling with.

It doesn't make me wrong.

And by the way, the physical church model, once again, I've said it dozens of times, the physical church model is going to reach the people.

Physical church model is going to reach.

It's not that their ideas are wrong or that they're invalid.

It's that, that those ideas are decreasing in influence.

And we have to acknowledge doing something different will reach someone different.

It's not just bang the same drum over and over again.

It's learn how to learn how to play another instrument.

You know, let's, let's rock an electric guitar.

Let's figure out the bass.

Let's figure out acoustic.

Let's, let's figure out how to get all different sorts of models working.

We need micro.

We need physical.

We need digital.

We need workplace.

We need video game.

We need VR.

We need streamers.

We need like, we need it all working for the kingdom.

We need collaboration.

We need friends on mission.

We need kingdom over castle.

We, we need to figure out what accountability looks like and learn how to work with others for the common cause,

not of self, but of Christ.

And as we talk about equipping and mobilizing and what, what that's going to look like in the church, digital and beyond,

and the network that we're assimilating to help, we're building to help digital missionaries in that space.

This is where we're going.

This is where we're going.

If all this excites you, if you hear me talk about all this and you're like, Hey, I want to know how to get involved.

There's two things I want you to do.

One, I want you to sign up for, uh, digital, uh, the digital, uh, equipping digital missionaries.

Hold on.

Flat cap.

Everyone needs to learn Latin to attend mass.

Not the first time.

Thanks.

That's okay.

Sorry.

I read this mass and I'm like, what the garbage is he talking about?

And it took me a while.

Everyone needs to learn Latin to attend mass way back in the day.

Uh, not the first time things change.

Yeah, I get you.

That was, that was good.

All right.

Sorry.

Sorry, flat cap.

That one took me a minute.

I think you misspelled mass.

I'm not judging you for that, but, uh, it, it, I was like moss.

Is that, that's, it means something in a different language.

So I was confused.

Two things.

You know what?

You distracted me flat cap.

All right.

Bringing it back.

You know, I'm doing this for social.

Cause, cause I want this.

All right.

Hey, listen, if you listen to me, have this, this conversation talking about, um, mobilizing about equipping and mobilizing digital missionaries.

And you're excited about some of the stuff we're talking about.

If I am hyping you up and you want to figure out next steps, there's two things I want to challenge you to do.

One, I want you to sign up for equipping digital missionaries.

The church.digital slash EDM.

EDM, equipping digital missionaries.

The church.digital slash EDM.

We, through the equipping digital missionary course, by the way, I'm revising version two right now.

Beta, we're making all sorts of changes to make it better.

Tighter for a cohort, more effective of a cohort moving forward.

The church.digital slash EDM.

I'm kicking off some cohorts here in a couple of weeks.

We want to get you connected.

The second thing I want to invite you to is the town hall meeting.

Because all this, all this, all this is going to come to light.

And a lot of the questions that you have right now are going to get answered at the town hall meeting next Tuesday, 1 p.m. Eastern, here on the Church Digital's YouTube.

So hang out with us for the town hall meeting.

Sign up for EDM if you're interested in how to be part of our equipping courses, which feeds into our mobilization, our networks.

We want to get you connected to Outposts.

Like, all this is right around the corner.

So join in with us as we're starting to head this way.

Okay?

Hey, that is going to wrap.

I'm going to see you all sign up for EDM.

I'm going to see you next Tuesday, 1 p.m. Eastern in New York time on the Church Digital's YouTube.

And for Jeff, this is Jeff.

By the way, let's say goodbye as we're wrapping up in this sad moment.

Let's say goodbye to Funko Pop Da Vinci.

This is probably the last time you will see Funko Pop Da Vinci.

I keep them right here on my desk, just always an arm reach away, because I love having Funko Pop Da Vinci available.

I also have Funko Pop Darth Vader sitting on his throne.

I mean, that's kind of bad, right?

Interesting story on that one.

But that's okay.

So say goodbye to Da Vinci.

We're going to wrap up Season 11 here of the Flywheel.

Digital Missionary Flywheel is toast.

We're done.

We have talked about Equip, excuse me, Connect Community Equip, Mobilization.

We've beat that drum.

And so next week, Town Hall Meeting, then we're going to launch into questions.

Questions that digital missionaries are wrestling with right now.

Excited about that one.

Getting back into the interview kind of conversations, less of a talking head from me in this next season.

But next week, the TCD leadership team is coming together.

We're all going to see you at the Town Hall right here Tuesday, 1 p.m. Eastern.

All right.

So for Jeff, this is Jeff to Church Digital.

Thanks for hanging out with us as we land the plane.

And you all have a good day.

Bye.

Just kidding.

I got to click the button twice.

I was trying to be all slick and not look, but I realized I didn't actually click.

So I'm going to click it again.

Hey, this is Jeff of the Church Desert Orlando Plain.

Thanks for hanging out with us, and you all have a good day.

Bye.