EP 352 Live Recording: Jeff & Pastor D talk Digital Church Planting, Mental Health, Coaching

All right. Hey, we got episode 352352 of the Church Digital Podcast. Jeff here. I'm excited

about today's guest. To be honest, I probably waited 351 episodes, too many to bring her on.

And so we'll get on with her here in a little bit. But before we get to the, I don't know,

I got to figure out the right adjective to use for Pastor D. But before we get to Pastor D,

let me dive into a couple announcements. I feel like there needs to be something. The ever

personality filled, the ever, I literally like, I'm bad at wordsmithing right now. And so I'm

struggling to come up with this, but Pastor D is going to be an awesome guest on the show here,

right around the corner. But before we get there, hey, there's a small little thing called the Digital

Missionary Conference coming up. The website has been updated with the schedules for the

four summits, the one, two, three, four summits we have coming up this September and October.

The team over at Word Revolution, Barbara Carnero has been doing an awesome time diving in on the

last minute details and getting things set. But if you're curious who's speaking and what time

they're speaking, it's over on the website right now, www.missionarydigital.com.

September 17th, Wednesday is going to be our Digital Neighborhoods Conference dealing with a lot of the

culture that's surrounding platforms and how, what evangelism and discipleship, even church planting,

digital church planting looks like on these platforms. September 24th is a Christ-centered

recovery conference. October 1st is featuring a lot of our European friends and a lot of what they're

learning in context of digital missionary work today. And then October 8th is going to be solely focused

on gaming, streaming, and that kind of cloud area. I started to say, I have no idea what I started to say.

That was weird. So anyway, all that's coming up, all four conferences, all four of them are free.

More information on www.missionary.digital. Before then, coming up in two weeks, we've got

our, our town hall. We do these probably once a quarter. And I got to tell you, I'm really excited

about some of the things that are rolling out here with, with town hall. Like, like you think that the

missionary conference is big. Some of the things that we're going to be announcing at town hall

will have just as big of an impact, I believe, on many of you out there. And by the way,

you come to the town hall, you hear the announcement, you go home with a gift.

That is my promise to you. You come to the town hall, you go home with a gift. What are you talking

about? I don't know. We'll figure it out between now and then. No, but seriously, we're going to be

rolling out something big that's going to, that could have an impact on all of you. And we,

the church digital will be giving you a gift at the town hall and beyond. So check out the town hall

meeting. It'll be two weeks from today. What is today? The 12th. So that'll make it to 26th,

if I'm good at math. And so Tuesday, the 26th, 1 p.m. Eastern. More information coming in the days to

come here at the church digital. Well, in this season, we've been talking about empowering tools

and equipping partners. And in many ways, Pastor D really exudes both of those as someone who is not

only a practitioner in doing ministry, but also out there coaching and resourcing and helping as many

people as possible understand how to be effective in ministry today. I got to tell you, I'm excited to

bring Pastor D for the first time ever, episode 352, on the stream. And so Pastor D, thanks for coming on.

I'm so, I'm equally as thrilled to be here after all of these years. Thank you for having me.

Not everybody can say this in context of years like you can, because Pastor D, your church that you

planted, House of His Glory, digital only church or a mixed hybrid, but mostly digital, is coming up on

what it's 12-year anniversary is. Yeah. The whole congregation, the whole church is coming up on

12-year anniversary, the first weekend in September. But I started out a traditional church. We were doing

pop-up church for about a year and a half into it before circumstances had me desperately go all digital

if I wanted to hang on to my new members. And so, yeah, it's been probably 10 and a half years now that

we've been absolutely completely all digital. So, Pastor D was one of the first people I connected

with when I was at Stadia. I maybe want to call that 2020. No, even before that. Was before that? Okay.

Yeah. It feels like you had pretty much just started. That would have been 2018, the church digital. Yeah.

The podcasts were like in there, single or just new brand new little digits.

And for the life of me, it was funny. Like, as I was talking to Pastor D off air, it's like, hey, so

this is the first time you've done this, right? Like, she has been a guest, like, by guest.

She's been, like, in the chat room talking up storms with people. I can think of several shows

that I was like, you should have just come on the amount that you're engaging from the chat room.

And so it's a pleasure to have her on today. By the way, speaking of the chat room, we've got some

friends here. Mr. Pete is, of course, watching and VR doing some things and big screen as well.

Mr. Pete, always glad to see you and even Billy Bob, too. It's good to see Billy Bob as well.

Ian Kirk is welcoming by saying, howdy, all. Steve Reed, my brother from another mother.

Nice to see you here, Pastor D. Dave. Dave, it's good to see you, my friend. I haven't seen Dave in a while.

Dave is saying, saying hey as well. And so Mr. Pete, Mr. Pete's getting a little jealous.

I think we're talking about somebody else. Mr. Pete's saying I've been here in VR for seven years.

And so, yeah, Mr. Pete is quite the personality. And so, love that.

I did, I think somebody created a meme of me and the puppet Billy Bob, where Mr. Pete brought

this puppet out for Billy Bob. And I was not ready to be doing a stream talking to a puppet.

Like, not knocking the puppet. But no one had prepared me that by doing a stream, when I woke

up that morning, I'd be talking to a puppet. And I just, I wasn't ready for it. So, very cool. Mr. Pete,

it is always a pleasure. Oh, and Yatope, log in, in from Nigeria. Excited about that.

Wonderful.

He's got some really big things with equipping digital missionaries happening in Nigeria.

Well, in surrounding areas there in Sub-Saharan Africa. And so, we're excited.

We're praying for some of the work that Yatope's doing over there. But let's get back. By the way,

if you've got questions as we're going into this chat, feel free to throw them in chat. We'll engage

and ask here with Pastor D. But let's get into it. So, Pastor D, you know, let's open up since

this is your first time here on the stream. Tell us a little bit about yourself. What's your story?

How'd you end up launching a church like House of His Glory?

Yeah. You know, I was on staff at a non-denominational ministry. It was an international ministry. There

was, I guess, seven churches. Some in Kenya, Philippines, and several in the Pasadena area.

Minister on staff. And I was teaching at their Bible college. I've been there for six,

seven, eight years, and really thought that was it until God did me like Abraham and was like,

go. I'm calling you to pastor. And literally, like, when I got my master's, he told me to go.

And I left. And that pastor said goodbye. And I was like, without a church home, without a license to do

ministry, the ministry, and feeling like I had no identity, and God used that season to just strip

off, honestly, the layers. I call them the layers of traditionalism. Layers of what was commonly

expected for you to do as a pastor. And led me to a wonderful bishop who just gave me the freedom to

discover who I am and to put whatever ministry God led me to together. And so as we began, like I said,

we started out pop-up church, doing it standard. When that very same bishop told me that he and his wife

and their four-year-old son were now expecting triplets. And he wanted me to come to Sacramento,

300 miles away from where I am, to help pastor his church. It was on sabbatical. So in those six months,

I was like, how do I keep my brand new congregation and minister to them and continue this thing that God has only just

recently pastored me, called me to pastor. And so, yeah, that's how I just started duct taping stuff

together and figuring stuff out. I mean, there was no Facebook Live. I don't know if it had even been

invented, but it certainly wasn't released. And, uh, the only digital technology I knew was sermons.net

and, um, and I found the church app and between those two platforms, I figured it out and we made

the house of his glory.com our church sanctuary and started building it from there. Yeah.

Wow. And so that was 2015 roughly when you got that started.

Yes. It was 2013 when, um, the church launched its first service in 2015. Easter service was the first

digital, um, message I called it at the time. And I think, cause I keep them numbered. I think we're

somewhere at 470 or 80 somewhere. Yeah. Around there. Now, now help me because you, you, when you were

distanced helping, you know, your, your pastor friend who was on sabbatical and filling in for him

for, for, for six months. Um, and so you, you had to be digital, but you know, life eventually resets.

And so you still like, how much are you physical today? How much are you digital? Like, what is

that balance today for you? Right. The intention had been to do a hybrid church. You know, the statistics

are like, Oh, 25% of your congregation are active and are your leadership. And so I thought, okay,

well, let's have that 25% in-house and the leadership in-house will serve the digital

congregation. So I, um, expanded to a nice little sanctuary that seats about five, excuse me,

five. It seats about 35 people. It's got a worship section and a separate office. And I had the

intention. If you build it, they will come. Right. So I got it all situated and built out and February,

the end of February, I opened the sanctuary, the new sanctuary to, um, movie night. And the intention

was to start services that, um, that following March, that Easter with full services. And that was 2020

and COVID hit us in March before Easter. And so we never fully opened up the sanctuary. My people are so

spoiled. They come when I feed them for Easter brunch. And so I am still working out of this beautifully set

up sanctuary. And so it is still fully, completely digital. Yeah. It is not segwayed into that dream

of a, of a beautiful hybrid congregation. They're happy in the setup it is. Well, and as somebody who's kind

of felt the balance of wanting to be physical, but not able to like now, now that you've been doing

this, you know, one, two, 12 years, are you, are you starting to see like the, what, what is the thing

that you can do as with a digital congregation that you can't do, do physically? Like what, what are,

as you're assessing this, what are the strengths and weaknesses, maybe the pros and cons, uh, between

both methods. Right. Right. You know, I think definitely digitally is more intimate for sure.

But what I really find is that you're not distracted by the culture of the congregation.

You're not distracted by, I need, you know, um, daycare for my kids. And that's your primary

guiding force. Youth group is what determines what church you're going to go to where you dig

in and you're getting the word. And not only are you getting the word, but you're, you're learning

how to apply the word and live the word in the structure of my congregation. And what I teach,

I call it a fueling station. We come into those digital services to learn how to be and how to do

what God has called us to do so that the rest of the week, we are living off of that fuel and being

who God has created us to be living off of that word without the distraction of church culture.

Yeah. Yeah. But then on the flip side, you can't drive up and, you know, oh, I want to go to that

church. And you, you know, on the flip side, the very things of that church culture that draw people

in is what we're missing as well. Yeah. I got to tell you, I was not expecting intimate to be the

answer. Digital is more intimate than physical. I don't, I don't often hear that I see it. But,

you know, as, as men, as a person who's had many conversations with physical oriented pastors and

physical ministry people, you know, they, they don't often see that or recognize that. And so it's,

it's, it's, it's intriguing to think of that intimacy level, remote long distance, but, and still being

accessible. But I love the fact that you're seeing that in that your, your, your ministry is, is, is

echoing that. And so, you know, you're, you're coming up on your, I guess, 12 year around there with,

with the church. Yes. What, what is the next, what is the next three, five years? What does that look

like for you with the church? For me and the, and the church? Yeah. This 12th year for the congregation,

I'm really going to launch, um, almost like a, a, a new church plant relaunch. Um, we've done some

rebranding, we've done some restructuring and, um, and I think I've got some new opportunities to really

reach communities and reach those unchurched, right where their needs are, uh, to draw them into,

um, more of an idea of shifting from, okay, church online, because COVID really did shift, um, even

the average Christian's perspective of church online and online church. And I know you've seen that too,

in your shift from focusing on the church into missionary work. And so it's going to be kind of an

urban missionary, um, drive to reach people at their need to reach people who are unchurched, who are

church hurt with, you're not necessarily coming into church because you are the church.

They're coming into relationship. And this is a community where we explore relationship and where

we learn how to not only have relationship with the Lord, but how to relation, have relationship with

one another and how that affects our relationship with every other way in which we deal with the world.

So that's going to be the, the shift in, uh, what I do for ministry. And then that bleeds into what I do. I'm a certified, uh, professional Christian life coach.

And, um, my focus for the last, oh, since 2023, 2022, since I got my PhD is to focus on third John one and two beloved, I wish above all things that you would prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers.

So let's prosper our souls. You know, like it just doesn't get more basic than that. You know, that's, that's beautiful. Yeah. Let's, let's get into, uh, into a little bit of that. So what does, you know, like your, your life coach, uh, your, your doctorate was in, in, in what, again, remind me of that.

Yes, I do have a doctorate in, um, my master's is in theology. My doctorate is in, uh, Christian education.

Okay. Um, but the focus of my studies was, um, the psychological and creative power of quantum faith and the word of God.

That's right. Quantum, quantum faith in the word of God. She, she actually mailed her dissertation to my daughter. My daughter is obsessed with all things quantum.

And so I got to give her, uh, my daughter, a paper copy of, of that. That was, that was remarkable. Uh, my daughter read it and she's like, I don't think I understand this all, but this is so cool.

And so it's like, she was, she was kind of thrilled by it. Um, but I know, I know, like there's some resources that, that you're working on and you yourself are out there trying to help, uh, pastors and people better understand that and do. Oh, by the way, Ian is asking, I'll go ahead and ask, is the dissertation available? And so, um, what, if somebody wanted a dissertation, a copy of the dissertation on quantum faith, how do they get that?

Right. I know Mr. Pete bought it and he read it too. It's so amazing. It is available on Amazon. Um, and you can find it under my name Deidre Campbell Jones or under a quantum faith, but it's got an abbreviated title that I, I can remember the long title better than the abbreviated title.

That's funny. So Ian is great at Amazon. Ian, if you could do some digging and find that, that'd be great. Maybe post that link. If you can find it here in chat, that's great. Uh, we'll include that link in, in the show notes, uh, moving forward as well. If people want access to that. I think that's, I think it's awesome. Uh, that, that it's on Amazon quantum faith.

It is a hard read because it is the dissertation, even though it's an abbreviated, you know, copy, it still is the dissertation. I've got easier reads on Amazon.

But let's talk a little bit because I know you're doing, you're doing some coaching and you, you launched out the, uh, the church coach app. So, so let's talk a little bit about this. What's your, what's your heart? What was the thing that you were seeing as, as the reason to, to launch this, uh, this app?

Right. And really what I was seeing is not only from my coaching experience, but from my own mental wellness journey as well. Um, the hugely unfortunate thing is that one, when you go to see your pastor for pastoral counseling, more than likely they're going to throw scriptures at you.

You're going to have to pray for you and pray for you and give you some sort of, I'm sorry, half baked Christian ease advice that doesn't reach your problem. It doesn't reach your need. And in my case, and in many times it has made matters worse. Um, then when you seek secular care, um, even if you go to a Christian life coach,

pretty much you're getting the same secular care as you would for a non-Christian coach. It's just someone who's a Christian who shares your beliefs, who again will pray for you and maybe toss in some scripture to support,

um, their secular standards of coaching. And I went through those training of being a Christian life coach and they train you in those secular standards.

And encourage you to pray for your clients and to use scripture whenever appropriate. And that's the extent of it. And so when I began coaching, even years ago, before I was pastoring, I always had a sense that the word of God can do more and is meant to do more in people's lives.

And so I was always coaching from that standpoint. And I realized after I went through stuff that I was like, I cried out to God and I was like, I need a coach who can coach like me. I need someone to coach me, you know, because the best surgeon in the world can't operate on themselves. Right? So God said, well, then teach people how to coach like you.

So then I developed my own coaching methodology into what I call the mindedness methodology. And that is teaching people how to coach, uh, through the mind of Christ and coaching people so that they can utilize the mind of Christ that they have been given. Use the word of God, the spirit of God, and the gifts of God within you.

And that is teaching people to, you know, to, to listen to like coach alongside with Holy Spirit, because he knows that person way better than we do.

And more accurately than any questions we can ask. So we ask those questions and we let them answer and let God interpret that answer and fuel us with, okay, what's the response? How do we reach that? How do we reshift their thinking? And it's more teaching.

And it's more teaching than the traditional listening and drawing out. We're using the word of God and the principles of God to teach them. So I teach coaches and pastors how to implement that kind of, uh,

how to implement that kind of, uh, biblically based faith based, faith based, spirit based coaching. Um, so that more churches can meet the needs of their people. There's just a huge gap. The statistics show that, um, I think it was like 79% of pastors think that they are addressing the mental health needs of their congregation from behind the pulpit.

While only, I think it was like nine percent who went through some sort of mental health needs felt as though their pastors had addressed their needs. Yeah. That's a huge gap.

Yeah. And, and there's, there's lots of organizations that are, um, that are trying to address the mental health at, at, at, at the church level. I know Barna has done done a ton of work on that. Our friend, Laura Howe over at the church mental health summit, uh, is doing a lot of work in that space. Um, there, there are summits coming up.

Oh my gosh. Right. Right. Right around the corner. Uh, sometime in September, October surrounding ours for life. And me, I can't, I can't think of, of that date right now, but they're, they're sponsoring us and we're sponsoring them. And we're, we're excited about the work that that's doing. But, but to be honest, I don't know.

Like everybody's wanting to speak at it at the, at the, at the large scale. I don't know that many that are, that are actually trying to, to help individuals like, like develop some sort of, some sort of a coaching process to go individually through that. So what led you to like the, uh, the micro view, as opposed to what I'm guessing is the easier macro view. Like why, why are you diving in specific with individual pastors?

Individual pastors on this? Yeah. Because, um, especially as an African American, you see people sitting in congregations that have this stigma, you know, well, I'm a Christian. I'm supposed to have it figured out. Um, that are like, well, I'll be embarrassed if I go to my pastor, you know, um, that have such need.

And, and have an innate sense that, okay, I'm going to just going to come to church. I'm going to pray more. I'm going to read my scripture more. They have a sense that God can help.

So, um, and having been in that congregation and felt that way and gotten my pastor and not receiving the help, you know, let me get pastors, a tool, a resource that they can implement churchwide that will break down those barriers.

Um, so that the methodology is embedded into an app that I've built so that they can select, um, you know, leadership.

They can select team members that will go through the training right there on the app to learn how to be, and to be certified as a mindedness coach there in the congregation.

And they can either have the, their congregation go and request coaching or, and this is what breaks down the barriers.

They can run, Hey, we're going to do a wellness, a mental wellness check on all of our members and just tell them you can expect to come through the program.

Just going to do a mental wellness check so that they reach out to people that wouldn't necessarily reach out to them.

That's the first.

The second thing is to certify individual coaches who are, I mean, the life coaching industry is booming right now.

And it's being supported by psychologists and psychiatrists because they're finding that if you can do life coaching early, it acts as an intervention to avoid, uh, some of the very serious problems that might happen down the line.

If some of those things are not addressed.

And so if we can get more coaches, Christian coaches to be effective, you know, at the ground level, then I think the possibilities are limitless.

Um, especially when we serve a limitless God.

It's beautiful.

Do you have any, any stories or examples you'd be able to share share of maybe some, maybe some churches or some pastors that have implemented part or all of this process?

Yep.

My, um, my favorite is, um, I call a more traditional congregation, um, uh, a little bit older pastors, um, predominantly not predominantly.

All black congregation of mostly older members.

And, um, he came to me one day.

I was so honored that he came to me and he was like, look, I, I don't know how to pray for my people.

They're getting older.

There's so many people on the, you know, the, the prayer list, um, the sick and shut in list.

And he's like, I'm feeling helpless.

I don't know how to help them.

And he let me, um, sign him up as a prototype church.

And first and foremost, he said, just the information, how much it is helped him shift in his understanding of how to reach people and how to use the word of God to, to reach people.

As a small congregation, he didn't necessarily implement the full program or even, um, you know, and just had really gone through the training, uh, to look at it and help me out.

But here's the testimony.

I was blessed this previous Sunday to speak at their congregation.

I've spoken at his congregation.

I've spoken at his congregation for a year since all of this and Jeff.

Oh my gosh.

Just hearing him pray over the congregation and hearing like feedback from the people.

I was just like, yes, yes, yes, yes.

That's what I'm talking about.

That's, that's, that's the change I want to see this be able to do.

Yeah.

They, yes.

That's it.

That's beautiful.

Um, do you, are, are most of the churches that use this African American?

Is there, uh, is it, is it wired necessarily to that culture or like what's your.

No, you know, so far what it is, is the churches that I know that I've been able to reach out to.

Are from that environment.

Are from, yeah, from that environment.

However, the individual coaches, they're all predominantly white.

Okay.

So.

Yeah.

I don't know.

That's, that's intriguing.

You know, if the answer was yes, that's great.

If the answer is no, that's great.

I mean, either way, it's, it's beautiful, but, um, it's, it's, it was, it's always intriguing

to me how ideas, um, cross, um, different cultures.

Different cultures.

Let's just say it that way.

Going, going from an African American to a, to a white to a Hispanic here in America.

Yeah.

And especially globally.

Like, it's just fascinating to me how things, things explode at the global level.

And so, yeah, this is, this is intriguing.

If somebody wanted to, to like, do they have to buy the app?

Is it a subscription?

Like how does getting the app, how does that work?

Yeah.

It's both.

Um, there is, um, uh, a course price to take the training.

Um, and the training happens right through the app and it's built so that once you absolutely

complete all the steps of the training, then it can, it can, if you choose to, you have the

option to unlock the coaching, um, application of, of the app itself.

And then that is a membership fee based on whether you're an individual coach or then different,

uh, subscription prices based on not church size.

Cause as a micro church, I can't stand it when I, how many members do you have?

I just can't stand that question anymore, but it's based on how many individuals you think

you might be bringing through the coaching process.

Gotcha.

And yeah.

So that's the pricing structure, the monthly pricing structure for that.

And the church app.com.

Yeah.

Is that, I was going to ask that as a followup question, your, your tech stack here is, is

the church app.

It's a subsplash.

Um, Oh, I, I always do that.

Thank you.

That's what I thought.

I thought you dropped.

Yeah.

So let's back up.

If people want more information on your, on your website, on your app, where are they

going?

Church coach app.com.

Church coach app.com.

There you go.

We'll get to the next question in a second, but for more information on the, on the, the,

the app itself, uh, and again, the, the coaching process, church coach app.com more information,

check that out and they can get in touch with you through, through the website as well.

Okay, great.

Now, which brings me to the next question I was going to ask after we got out past that,

um, just because we've got a bunch of nerds and geeks that are watching this.

Uh, so tech stack, what, so you, you built all this on the church app subsplash.

Like is no, Oh, I'm sorry.

Now I'm slamming my subsplash people.

What did you use to build the app?

I built that app through glide, a program called glide.

Okay.

And, um, I, I like it because it's, it's part wizzy wig.

I don't know if that's too old school.

It did.

It works.

Wizzy wig.

Yeah.

I gotcha.

I mean, this beard's gray.

I understand.

The whippersnapper out there is probably saying what, what, and I'm telling him to get off

my lawn.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

So it's part, uh, user interface, part data driven.

So you can switch between the screens and, you know, drop in components or build up components

on the back end.

So, um, it's, it's really a wonderful, wonderful platform for building out apps.

Cause the more, you know, the more intricate you can get with your design.

Um, and with your app capabilities.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Interesting.

You, you, you developed it entirely yourself.

Yes.

I, um, I developed it entirely myself.

I went through a training program to use how to, to learn how to use glide.

And when I found out that my imagination went beyond my actual capabilities, then I got a

glide expert, uh, to help me.

And she was phenomenal because I would say, Oh, you know, and I want this page to do this.

And she would say, and don't you want it to also do this?

I was like, as a matter of fact, I do.

I didn't know I did.

I didn't know.

I did.

But now that you said that.

Yes.

Yes, I do.

Yes.

That's beautiful.

And then she's like, well, that'll be an extra $6,000.

No, I'm, I'm, I'm kidding.

She did it.

I know.

Wow.

You got a good one.

I did.

I really did.

Miss Megan.

I want to, yeah.

Promote her.

She's amazing.

So intuitive.

Yes.

Yeah.

Very cool.

So how long is the, has the app been a, been a thing?

Have you, have you been working with it?

Yeah.

You know, technically it's been a thing for a year.

I signed up, um, you know, my, um, my preliminary coaches and churches at last year, last summer,

actually.

Yeah.

And so it's now fully good to, to launch and there's all kinds of levels.

There's a do it yourself level.

And then of course there's the, the ultimate level where I will come and help facilitate transition

and implementation and train staff on, on site.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So do you, I'm going to shift gears on you for a second.

Hopefully it's okay.

Do you, I mean, you consider yourself bivocational by doing like this as, is this your primary

mode of funding the church app or, or what, what does that look like for you?

No, it never had been.

As I said, you know, when I was a minister on staff at this former ministry, they put me

on their internal counseling team, so to speak.

And it was through one of the, um, associate pastors who was bivocational that I went through,

um, uh, the certification process and became a life coach so that again, I could better do

the job that I was assigned to do through the ministry.

And that was separate aside.

Like my vocation at the time was teaching at the, um, Bible college.

So to me, coaching was a part of ministry.

And I became that Christian life coach just so I could do it better.

And because I was not on the pastoral staff, but I couldn't like coach outside people.

So I got the certification so I could coach people that were not a part of the ministry.

Um, so that part was always integral, even in, you know, all the years of pastoring and coaching.

If you'd said, you know, are you bivocational?

No, I'm full-time ministry.

I think I even said the same thing to you.

And you were like, well, how does all of this fit in with the house of his glory?

Yeah.

And you being a pastor, I was like, uh, because it is, it just does.

That's, that's beautiful.

Listen, if you, if you can have your cake and eat it too, more power to you.

Um, you know, oftentimes in my world, there's just, you know, I've got to, I got to do things

to pay the bills.

And so that's, that's a lot of the tension that, that, that I'm feeling.

And I know a lot, a lot of the people around are, they're trying to figure out how to,

how to do the thing that pays for the thing.

And so, um, anyway.

And this is the first six months, six to eight months.

Cause I've kind of put my own individual coaching on hold so that I could build out the app and

focus on that and focus on a series of online courses and coaching programs, um, that are intended

to just, uh, um, provide me a salary.

Um, but yeah, this last six to eight months, I was like, oh, uh, it's time for me to pick up some more coaching

clients.

Cause I need the money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's time to go back to actual work.

Oh, maybe I am by vocation.

Yeah.

I am now anyway.

So something's got to generate revenue.

That's, that's all, that's all I'm saying.

Um, man, that's great.

Are you, uh, with the coaching work that you do, is it primarily focused around the mental

health component?

Like what are, are there other areas to do coaching as well?

Or what does coaching look like for you?

Yeah.

Um, I call it Christ life coaching, which is wholeness coaching.

That's not necessarily niche based.

Um, but I have found, um, that, that is starting to incorporate some, uh, some Christians, some

Christ like business coaching.

I am finding a lot of Christians that are, um, that are wanting to get business coaching,

but do it from a biblical mindset and a biblical perspective.

And, um, God has really just put that in my lap.

He's like, here, I want you to coach this person on this topic.

I'm like, oh, okay.

Yeah.

Have you, have you explored doing that type of coaching outside of, you know, nine to

five ministry context, Christians in the workplace, in the marketplace, in education systems?

Have you, does the coaching adapt outside of kind of the church space?

Um, yes.

And it always has for me, it seems, um, for as many, um, church based clients that I have

that I am found somehow, um, by those outside the church.

Um, and, um, and a lot of it is starting to gear towards, um, those in the marketplace,

um, and coaching coach people who want to be coaches.

They're like, let me work on my own self first before I coach others.

Um, and I am starting to modify some of my messages, um, for, uh, for education as well.

Um, my new, uh, topic that I'm building out is BYOB.

Be your own best friend.

Oh, wow.

Be, be your own best.

Be your own best friend.

Okay.

Yeah.

Bestie.

Yeah.

Your own bestie.

BYOB.

Be your own bestie.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I love it.

I know, you know, bestie.

I don't use bestie a lot, but yeah, I love, I love, I love that idea.

Um, BYOBFF.

BYOBFF.

My, um, you know, Dr.

John, uh, who's out there on the West coast with you.

He's, he also is a guy who, I don't want to say he's cheap.

He had a, he had a coaching business that was, was working with churches and it's, it's struggled to really catch on for whatever reason.

Um, but then he adapted some of his coaching into the, the secular marketplace outside of the church space.

And, and I'll tell you like his coaching business exploded.

Somehow he got, uh, earmarked into like the education world, uh, in, and wherever he is in California.

And dude is like flying off, off of that because he, he, he took some of, of the niches he was coaching in the church space and, and brought it into, uh, into the, into the, uh, education area, uh, up within the county.

And, and he has just been going from school to school to school, having literally doing the same coaching for all these different, um, K five to 12 schools.

And, uh, I don't think he's doing college, but maybe he is at this point, but anyway, like it's just has accelerated greatly once he got into that ecosystem.

And, and it's been, it's eyeopening for me realizing that, that sometimes, you know, I kind of, and this is one of the things I struggle with.

I kind of feel like I have a unique set of skills that operate best inside the church building inside this, you know, ecosystem that we're even trying to move away from.

And by moving away from it, it's like, well, my skillset, I'm kind of walking away from that.

How do I contribute value, you know, even outside the church world when I'm not even using my skillset inside the church world.

Uh, but there, there's ways I think to, to bridge that into the secular marketplace or what have you, and with bivocational abilities.

So I just, I'd encourage anybody to give a shot going down that road and start to explore what that would look like in, uh, in the unique spaces.

That is absolutely an encouragement.

Cause I, I was definitely thinking in that direction.

Like all of my family, the women in my family on both sides of my family are in education.

And, uh, I think I, my mom's a superintendent of a school district in Northern California.

And I told her, I think it was around May.

I was like, mom, I'm going to come start speaking at all your schools.

She's like, uh, like I told her that's the perks of having a mom who's a superintendent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That, that, that's the blessing of the superintendent.

Mom.

Hey mom, I'm not asking.

I'll send you an invoice.

I'm on my way.

So, um, so yes, there's absolute benefits of modifying that.

And, you know, and to be perfectly honest, it has been easier to reach individual coaches than individual pastors.

One, there's a lot of suspicion.

They think that you're, what are you going to teach my people?

What are you teaching me to teach my students?

Wow.

There's a lot of suspicion.

You have to break through.

And if you cut through that, then you have to go through the board.

And then you have to cut through their suspicions.

And it's a long process.

It's a long, and you have to be full of patience.

You have to answer the questions over and over and over.

And so, yeah, it has been much easier to reach those who have an individual desire to coach and to reach different out to different organizations that may not necessarily be, you know, church aligned.

Because the goal is just God's people, you know?

Yeah, that's, that's beautiful.

I do.

I mean, there's, there's, there's value in that.

There's helping reach people and do ministry with people even outside of that building.

Right.

And engaging with them and dialoguing with them.

It's funny.

Like, ironically, you can always tell.

I'm going to let you in on a secret you didn't ask, Pastor D.

Pastor D.

But you can always tell when I need to do laundry by when I wear this shirt.

Because I only wear this shirt, my, the Living Word Christian bookstore.

You know, this is back from like the years 2000, call it 2004 to 2008 when I ran a brick and mortar Christian bookstore.

Yeah.

And so, and it was, but like, it sits in the back of my closet.

And whenever I'm out of shirts, this is the last one I grab.

And so laundry is piled up in my closet.

Um, but it's, it's, it's reminiscent for me, even as I'm wearing the shirt is like we did.

Uh, there was a, um, we owned a, it was called a, it was a store was called C to eight.

It was in West Palm beach, Florida.

Are you in SoCal or NorCal?

Where are you in California?

You're in Southern.

I'm from NorCal and I live in SoCal.

Live in SoCal.

Okay.

So we were in, do you remember C to eight?

Were you in, in Southern California?

We were in, the store was in Temecula.

Uh, the store was in, no, um, it had like six or seven locations.

I could rattle them off at one point.

I don't remember, but there was a guy, uh, this is going to be a long story.

I'm sorry.

But there was a guy, his name was Aurelio Barreto.

He, it was a, it was a Christian millionaire.

He made his millions inventing the, uh, Christian, the, uh, no, I'm sorry, not Christian.

The dog house that looked like an igloo.

You ever seen those like dog glues, the dog house looks like an igloo.

Yeah.

So this guy, Aurelio Barreto invented this.

And after he made his millions off of the, the dog glue, um, he found Christ.

And so he was convicted what to do.

And the guy was kind of like this edgy, you know, um, uh, like an older motorcyclist,

like, uh, like, uh, you know, uh, Harlington, uh, no, Harlington, uh, whatever it is.

Uh, Harley Davidson guy.

Yeah.

And, um, and so he decided to create this, this company called NOTW and a second company

called C2A.

NOTW is like this, this really like hot topic, PacSun level brand.

C2A would be the stores that it sold in.

And so he had like a dozen of these all over California.

And I was the first guy to like own a franchise of that in Florida in pre, uh, this was like,

uh, pre Obama, 2008, pre the election, pre the recession that hit in 08.

And so I actually had like $1.5 million committed from different people to open a series of C2,

eights up and down the coast of Florida.

Um, basically, uh, Tampa down where it was going to be Tampa, Orlando, West Palm beach,

um, Miami, Fort Lauderdale.

Well, I think we had one of the location.

I can't remember right now, but the goal was to launch these stores.

But the beautiful part was we opened one in West Palm.

Well, I had this, the bookstore and I had a C2A running separately.

We saw over a hundred people come to Christ in a brick and mortar mall in West Palm beach,

because we were, we were training our, our employees.

They were basically high school kids on how to share Jesus using the shirt designs.

And so they were like these really like, not your typical Christian t-shirt.

There were like skulls and crossbones and very, very edgy in designs to be, uh, attractive

and to connect with a younger generation.

Yeah.

But we had kids that they, they literally would, they would come hang out at the mall at our

store after school.

They'd come like do you, you would see them out outside of the store praying with each other,

like in the, in the hallway mall.

And they were like, um, you know, just connecting in, in big ways with, with each other doing Bible

studies.

It was funny.

My, my assistant manager actually went to go be a youth pastor at the life church.

When life church came to town, life church literally stole my man, my assistant manager

to be a youth pastor.

I was okay with that, but we partnered with them.

And anyway, but it comes to realizing there's opportunities to do minute.

All that to say there's opportunities to do ministry outside of that church moniker.

And, and, and growing up as a, as a guy that felt a calling to the church.

I, I, I don't know, looking back, if God was calling me to do ministry inside the church, as much as the idea of doing

ministry.

And, and I just equated in my youth that it had to be inside the church building.

Where I realized now, I really feel like God, I missed a lot of what God had because I was trying to be bleeding edge in a, in a vehicle like the church.

That is, I mean, let's just say allergic to the idea of, of bleeding edge.

And so now it's, it's like, man, what would it have looked like if for my life, if I had not been, um, restricted by, by some of that, you know, do I think God was glorified?

Yes.

Do I think God maybe had some things that I did not consider at the time because of my short sightedness?

Probably.

Um, in, in, in hindsight though, I think there's an opportunity for all of us to look, to recognize that ministry is not in the, the typical church buildings.

And even, even fundraising does not have to be in those typical environments.

We can look outside of that for opportunities that arise.

Yeah.

You're really a great example of that, Pastor Dee, as, as you've figured out ways to, to navigate that, to, for partnerships, to, you know, take advantage of mom, quote unquote, saying, Hey, I'm, I'm on my way.

Uh, I, I charged 250 an hour.

You'll figure out where that money comes.

See you later.

Um, but, uh, see, see at dinner, whatever, whatever it is, but no, seriously, like just figuring out ways to make it happen.

And, you know, you've been doing this ministry for, for 12 years.

12 years.

And so somehow over the course of the 12 years, you know, you've managed to figure out how to make it happen.

Good days and bad.

What, what advice would you give to somebody that's, that's starting out?

How, how, how do they make their 12 year anniversary?

How do they make their 12 year anniversary?

I always say this and try to remind myself of this.

It's very easy to get caught up in what we do for the Lord and forget who we're doing it for.

Well, always, always, always, always partner with God, partner with God.

Even if your idea is a great idea, he's probably going to be like, here's how we can do it better.

We, we get so caught up in doing ministry that we just get lost in who we're doing it for and who we're supposed to be doing it with.

And, and what is it?

I hope I get the scripture dress right.

Right.

It's, um, I think it's marked 10 and 27 with man.

It is impossible, but not with God for, with God, all things are possible.

And I think as Christians were like, yes, everything's possible for God.

We, we interject, we replace for God.

Everything's possible for God instead of no, the new, the King James says with God, that when we do it with God, everything is possible.

And even if it legitimately is impossible from our natural eyes, God says, it's not impossible when we do it with him.

Yeah.

It's beautiful.

You know, I, I do, I do think in, in my own life, sometimes I forgot that, uh, it was, you know, I'm carrying this on my own accord.

I've, I've just, I've got a, as a guy that's guilty of, um, you know, uh, I've been called a finisher, like, you know, whatever Jeff starts, Jeff finishes Jeff, you know, Jeff, no one ever questions your work ethic.

You're, you're, you're one of the hardest working guys we know.

Um, you know, and, and so I'm, I'm guilty of those conversations.

And historically I've been the guy that would kill himself, turn around and say, Hey God, thanks for, thanks for running with me on my journey.

Um, not necessarily, Hey God, where are we going today?

And let me walk with you.

Yes.

Uh, and, and so I do think it's, um, uh, it's interesting for us to maybe even stop and pause and evaluate is, is the road that we're on?

Is that our road or is that God's road?

And, um, what, what role is God playing on that road that we're on?

Um, and so, Hey, thank you very much for that, that reminder.

Thank you.

We need to do this more often.

Like, you know, I, I, I could totally appreciate hanging out with you for three 52, but you know, we probably should have did this half a dozen times before now.

And so I'll, I'll make a promise to you.

Uh, we'll involve you on, on a more regular basis here.

Uh, with, uh, with, uh, with, uh, the podcast and the streams and the things involved.

And so, Hey, as, as we're wrapping up today, Pastor D, uh, in any closing thoughts?

Closing thoughts.

Oh, you know, I'll, I'll just say this, that I always say to my congregation when I close.

Um, you know, go in his glory, like his glory is there for us to walk in and to access walk in power.

Like he's also given us his power and just receive everything that the kingdom of God has for us that Jesus died on the cross for us to receive.

Just go for it.

Yeah.

And just pray that everyone just, just walk in the fullness of what God's got for you, how he's got it for you.

Wow.

Yeah.

So take that away for this week.

Uh, pastor D that, that was well said, walk in the fullness of God and what he has for you.

And, and, and understand that pray that through, uh, in the, in the days, in the weeks to come.

And so hit up pastor D's website, uh, for, you said it was church coaching app.com.

Am I saying that right?

You know, uh, church coach app, church coach app.com.

Dot com.

It's either the church coach or it's church coach app.

I tell you what, just randomly type letters until you see pastor D's face.

And, um, we apologize for any other websites you may accidentally stumble into while, while going down that road.

And you can find pastor D inside our, our, our WhatsApp.

Are you hanging out more in WhatsApp or discord with us?

What's that?

Yeah.

What's that?

Every, all the cool kids are at WhatsApp.

Like the kids are over in discord.

The cool kids are over, over in WhatsApp.

And so, yeah.

So you'll find pastor D over in our, in our WhatsApp.

So you can hit up and ask for questions in there.

But, uh, for today, next week, I'm excited.

We got our, our Jesus friend, our Jesus film people coming around excited, had a conversation with Aaron today, and they're going to be talking about some of their next steps tools and some of the improvements, uh, they've had on that.

We talked about that back with the last conference, but, uh, they've got some new functionality and some new things that we'll be digging into some really cool stuff.

Like I love the fact that Jesus film is engaging so much within helping people share Jesus digitally, even beyond like this stuff that, that Jesus film is doing with their films.

Um, but that will happen next week for today.

We're going to wrap up.

So pastor D thank you for the time today jumping on this stream.

We will do it before we get to episode 700.

I promise we'll get you to reengage.

And, uh, but we're going to land the plane for pastor D.

This is Jeff at the church digital.

Thanks for hanging out, out with us today on the stream.

And we'll see you next time on the show.

Y'all have a good one.

Y'all have a good one.

Y'all have a good one.

Y'all have a good one.

Y'all have a good one.

Y'all have a good one.

Y'all have a good one.

Y'all have a good one.