EP367: Jeff, Flatcap and Chinomage Celebrates Gaming Conference

Hey everybody, welcome to the Church Digital Podcast.

We've got episode 367, 367 here.

At some point, I am officially going to lose count, but excited about the conversation

today and the events of yesterday.

We wrapped up digital missionary summit season with our gaming summit yesterday.

We hosted a four, five, six hour conference yesterday on Discord, and it was a lot of

fun.

And Discord did pretty good.

And really, we wanted to celebrate today, the events of yesterday, some powerful moments,

some takeaways, some, you know, gotchas, and just kind of celebrate that.

And so, for the conversation, I wanted to bring in the two people responsible for you

yesterday, and that would be Leighton, I'm saying size because everybody always corrects

me when I say it.

Leighton size, right?

That's correct.

Okay.

It rhymes.

It rhymes with Satan lies.

That's how I tell everybody.

Satan lies, size.

And every time I say that, yeah, every time I say that, somebody's like, no, it says, I'm

like, I'm pretty sure it's size.

And of course, Andy, we're going to pronounce it mage, because I actually have no idea how

to make fun of that name other than mage.

It doesn't rhyme with Satan anything.

Yeah.

Satan, Satan's cage.

Yeah.

There we go.

There we go.

That's all I got.

All right.

Hey, so listen, these were the brain, the architects, let's call it that way.

These were the architects behind yesterday's gaming conference and the host as well, the

gaming summit.

I got to kick back in the chair and watch.

I got to sleep in on the day.

No early morning details to scramble for.

These guys handled it all the way and super excited about the work that was done.

And so, gentlemen, thanks for handling the gaming summit yesterday as well as it went.

Leighton, man, I'd love to kick it off to you.

Like, what happened yesterday?

Like, give me an overview.

Give me a snapshot.

Give me your kind of lasting impression.

I think some of it was a bunch of people that are either in the process of feeling called

to digital ministry and are making connections around gaming and going, can I actually do ministry

in gaming or people that have already been doing it?

And they're just like, I don't know what model to follow.

I don't know who I'm following after.

I can look and I can see some successful people out there or some successful organizations, but I have no pathway to implement it.

So, there's a lot of people that are just hungry for some friends on mission, some guidance, some direction,

and they were just showing up throughout the time that we were there.

I think we are now about 820 people in the Discord.

So, probably in the process of coming up to the conference, we probably gained somewhere around 70, 75 new people in the Discord community

and people just coming over in the last week, joining in, coming in, whether they were there the whole day or not.

Just a lot of people hungry and excited about what God is up to.

Yeah, it was fun to see all the new subscribers come into the server and starting to engage in that space and that.

I do want to get into, like, the conference on Discord and some of the technical aspects of that.

But, Andy, kind of like, what was your takeaway from yesterday?

I don't want to be biased, but I think the gaming conference had the best engagement out of all of them.

I think that's, you know, for a number of factors, Discord makes it real easy.

Everybody there kind of knew the platform already.

Nobody was learning a new platform like Hublot, which was awesome as a partner.

But nobody had to learn things.

One of the coolest things that I saw also, obviously, were, you know, gamers or gaming adjacent or, you know, people that are relatively used to talking in a space like Discord.

Not only was engagement off the roof, but people understood immediately how to turn their cameras on.

And so towards the end, well, after our kind of wrap-up Q&A session, we opened up rooms afterwards for all the speakers and all the sponsors.

And I hung out in our Lux room for about an hour.

I think Leighton hung out in his room for about an hour and then moved to another room for 45 minutes or an hour.

And so that was about two hours.

And I went downstairs to cook some dinner and get ready for church.

We had church that night.

And I came back upstairs about two and a half, almost three hours later and opened up Discord.

And Jade was still in the room with five people just still talking.

And I thought, man, this is...

I mean, that's Jade in a nutshell.

But also, like, he canceled his entire stream for the day just to be there.

He cleared out all this space.

And I don't know, just the buy-in from him, from North Hill, from Leighton, and from Drewsey was just incredible to see.

Yeah.

You know what?

If I had known he was going that long, I probably would have jumped in there myself.

I had something right after the conference.

But I loved...

So the keynotes yesterday, Leighton opened up.

And then North Hill Live, which was new to me.

Talk to me.

What's his name over there at North Hill?

It's Chris.

So he got started with a...

He's been a church planter for years.

He pastors a church.

His church inherited another building.

And his church said, we don't need to do a plant in that physical space.

Let's take that physical church and let's plant a digital church.

And so he's been, after that, for the last three years, doing that, creating a sound studio in there,

putting together all of what he's doing.

So taking all of his knowledge of planting physical churches over the year and moving that into digital spaces.

So his church doesn't fully grasp or understand half of what he's doing.

But they are just like, you're reaching people that we can't reach otherwise.

And so we're going to support this and get behind all of that.

Interesting.

You know what?

I did not know that aspect of the story.

That's intriguing to me that a physical church, you know, it's decreasing and decreasing.

There were a couple that were doing it for a while and it's kind of trickled away, but it's cool to see North Hill Live still doing it.

And then, Andy, you spoke with the Lux crowd.

What was your talk about, Andy?

Yeah, so it was less about me.

I was interviewing Dalton Rosiska, who is our, over at Lux, he is our community and discipleship pastor.

And he, one of the things that Leighton and I were trying to do at this conference is to really show that digital ministry and digital missions work inside of the gaming sphere is less about the game you're playing and more about the target that you're creating.

And that's why Leighton's talk was really, really great, kind of kicking off the whole process of really starting to define who your one is.

And then North Hill, Chris came in and really started talking about how do you know if you're actually doing well.

Talked about metrics, really kind of gave us archetypes as well as to if you are this type of streamer or this type of content creator, you should be looking at this.

And it was, it was really cool.

Dalton, Dalton does a really cool thing with Lux where he, he calls it setting a table.

And this is, this is normal church parlance, but he creates teams of table setters to allow community to gather and form.

And so I really wanted to impress on our people that, hey, it, it, yes, we can do it at Lux because we have a staff and we have a giant discord server, but you can do it even if you're just a TikTok streamer or especially if you have a small fledgling community and here's your steps to do it, which was really fun.

And then we kind of turn it over to Jade.

Jade, Jade did Jade things where Jade just kind of opened the door and said like, hey, I've got a couple of things.

I have to say, and Jade just started simple.

Like, like not like, oh, well, we wouldn't know this, but let's, let's just take it back.

Start with, do you love, do you love Jesus?

Do you love God?

Well, yeah, I do.

Do you, do you, do you love Jesus?

Like, okay, what you're doing in streaming, is this about loving Jesus?

Is this about loving people or is it something else that's creeping in?

He didn't say it this way, but this is just my takeaway from it.

That reevaluation of, yeah, the reason I want to be in digital ministry is because I love God.

The reason I want to be in digital ministry is because I love people.

And if people are in digital spaces and I love them, I got to go to them.

And if I want to bring the love of God, so like Jade just starts as simple as it can be.

And then just opens it up to, hey, what questions do you have?

I want to answer your questions.

And it was like, we could have just, and then that's why it made so much sense.

Jade just hopped in a chat room and sat there for hours because people just wanted to be around him and learn from him and just rub off, have him rub off on them.

Well, yeah, his talk was about five minutes, I think.

And then he's like, all right, what questions do you have?

That was, okay, well, well, well played.

And evidently he took questions for like four or five hours.

So I know it was at least 30 in his keynote.

And then he was like, he was almost disappointed when Leighton and I were, well, when Leighton jumped in and we were, Leighton and I behind the scenes were DMing.

And by the way, I need to give my flowers to Leighton.

Like he was, it was incredible, incredibly easy to work with Leighton in setting this whole thing up.

Like he just, he gets it.

He understands the crowd.

He understands the platform.

For me as kind of the producer behind the scenes, like we would, we just kind of, we cooked.

I mean, we had this thing done back at, this was what, mid-October.

And he and I were essentially done mid-September with this and just fine tuning.

And that's, again, we understand the thing.

But, but with, with behind the scenes, we were, or we were DMing, hey, okay, five minutes.

And then, okay, we're going to have to get on stage.

And so Leighton jumped on stage and Jate was like visibly disappointed.

And I was like, dude, listen, we got, we got, we can't sit here.

Like this isn't a Jate stream, but you're like, we have a room for you.

And sure enough, he just was like, okay, cool.

I'm just going to transition over there.

He was at church last night.

We talked about it at church.

It was, it's, he did Jate things.

I just, I love that guy.

Yeah.

Jate things.

He's, Jate has turned into an adjective.

In things.

So, so very, very cool.

Yeah.

What was maybe, what was a, your, your favorite moment, powerful moment?

Like what was, what was the thing that sticks out in, in each of your minds?

Leighton, let's have you go first.

As you think about yesterday.

I think some of it was, and I love comments in the chat.

I think that has become a thing that is going to make it hard for me to ever think

I want to go back into the pulpit full time because I want the engagement on the spot.

So the comments in the chat that are engaging, it was so interactive of people who are going,

oh my, like, this is my just summarizing it.

Oh my goodness.

I've never thought of that.

Oh my goodness.

That's such a great point.

And they were phrasing it, however they were doing.

And then I especially got excited when they just start blowing up with emojis.

That's, that's the fun thing for me.

All the memes that are rolling along, engaging one another, and then side

conversations that begin happening that are tangent to what's going on, but relevant to

the people that are there.

It really becomes free flowing of ideas and spurring one another on and encouragement that

just comes off of the talk.

Instead of where you go to a normal conference, you sit there quietly, and then you have to

wait for time to go out in the hallway and, you know, decompress with everybody.

It's just spot on happening in the middle of it and happening simultaneously.

That's, that's the excitement for me.

Yeah, I got to tell you, I, um, I enjoyed, uh, Leighton in your keynote, you know, normally

when I'm on stream, you're dropping like, um, you know, memes and gifts on me.

And I kind of enjoyed, I kind of enjoyed turning the tables on you, man.

And like blowing you up while, while you're trying to focus and then being incredibly stupid.

I'm getting, it's more than that, but, um, yeah, there is a level two when, when you, you have

to make a decision is my content more important and the, then the conversations on the side,

or am I going to say, here's the more info I can't go through it all, but here's leading

to it.

And, and it was just kind of like, oh yeah, the conversation on the side is where people

are at.

So my content's not as important as the conversation on the side.

Yeah.

I, I, I have often wondered why places like, um, you know, church online platform that obviously

has their life church, they've got their platform, why they're not in our, um, what's the word

I'm looking for?

Um, building in chat into like the live show, as well as the online, as in the live physical

services, as well as the online services.

Um, but, uh, maybe that I'm just ahead of my time.

Like I, I would totally text it during services, the process.

Think about the, the number of senior pastors that are out there, what age they are and think

about them wanting any intrusion in the middle of them bringing the message God's given them.

It's a foreign thought concept.

Yeah.

So to build something into a platform that doesn't fit their paradigm is probably not the

right way to go.

Now, I think it's the right way to go because I think that's going to be more of what Jesus

was doing, engaging with people and, and bringing his message.

Yeah.

I know we read, uh, the sermon on the mountain and it's seven chapters of uninterrupted Jesus,

but I think he probably was interrupted along the way when he was giving those messages,

you know, and we have the glimpses of that a few times when, you know, Peter will speak

up and say, Hey, we didn't understand what you were saying.

Can, can you break it down for us?

Uh, so I think there was probably a lot more of that going on.

We just don't have all those discussions.

Yeah.

Um, time, I think in time, I think in time, you're right.

A new generation has got to come along, got to kind of transfer along, but, but we'll

get there.

Um, Andy, what was a, a, uh, powerful moment takeaway?

What was, you know, something that, that sticks in your head from yesterday?

Um, yeah, outside of Layton and we're going to, uh, I think we're going to show some of

Layton's keynote, uh, at some point, but, uh, outside of that, which was really well done.

And I think it, it, it really, uh, greased the groove in terms of getting people thinking,

um, Chris, who I, I, I know I knew him, uh, but I hadn't really been familiar with him.

Uh, North Hill, uh, North Hill live.

Um, he, I've been, I've been dealing a lot with archetypes lately, just in kind of some

marketing stuff I've been doing on the side.

And, um, one of the things he kind of dropped was the, this paradigm, this archetype of if

you are a certain type of streamer, like if, or if this is your personality type, these

are the things you should be looking at.

And I really keyed in on that.

And I think, uh, it's something I need to sit with.

Um, it actually spurred Dalton and I, in DMs to start talking about what archetypes we

found ourselves in.

Are you a big brother?

Are you a host?

Are you an entertainer?

Are you a disciple maker?

Like where, where do you fit in those channels?

And, you know, he, Dalton remarked to me in a DM, he said, you know, it's a lot easier

to see it in other people than in yourself.

So I see you as this, what do you see me as?

And it was a really cool kind of bonding moment for he and I, but also I think it, it really,

um, it really challenged me to start to define a little bit more of like, what are we actually

looking for?

You know, as a, as a church or even as a stream, uh, you know, as CCD or as Lux, like

what, what are we, are we hosts?

Are we entertainers?

Are we disciple makers?

Like what is the overall thing and how can we let that filter through the organization?

So it's something I'm going to actually carry into our staff meeting in a little bit and,

and, uh, see how we can translate it.

Awesome.

Very cool with that.

Uh, you know, that's part of what, uh, true center, Dr. Dr. Tim, you know, what motivates

us.

We've done some other, uh, something he, Dr. Tim was, uh, more connected into the neighborhoods

and, and the, uh, the recovery conference, but, um, yeah, just, I, I love the, that archetype

model and the archetype, um, you know, what it, it helps you have something you can hold

on to.

It's, it's like, Hey, this is, this is who we are.

This is who we need to be.

This is who we, um, you know, in, in that model that you can grasp onto, uh, is now that,

now that I have it, um, I, it's, it's easier.

Yeah.

You know, Barbara used to always say this, once you can put words on it, it's much easier

to, to replicate.

If you can ever put words on it, you have no chance of, of multiplying that.

And so I, I, I, I, I love that, that, uh, that option.

Hey, um, with, um,

Just to piggyback, let me piggyback on that a second, Andy, cause you were talking about

that and, and processing through it.

And my brain went a little bit further and going, what if you sat down and had your team

put your character sheet together for you, broke down your strength, broke down your charisma,

broke down all like figure out what those are.

Like I was thinking, Oh my goodness, how fun would that be to sit down in a team and have

them build your character sheet out for you of all of those things, you know, special abilities,

whatever you want to call strengths and, and, and what you utilize.

All that.

Yeah, yeah, we were at, so that's actually part of it that, and, uh, we actually have

at Lux, we have our engagement pathway and it's literally a, uh, it's built out to look

like a pathway from a, you know, from a castle to a tavern.

And, you know, it's very nerdy cause that's what, that's our, our target.

Uh, that's our one.

If you want to, you know, if we want to use our parlance from the, from the conference,

but the, the interesting thing is along the way you're going to meet people and who are

the NPCs you're going to meet, who are the player characters you're going to meet.

And I wanted to, I want to start defining those a little bit more.

Um, but you know, you know, in the first step, it's the awareness step.

Okay.

What are the PCs we're going to meet and how can we define them and how then as disciple

makers or hosts, how do we then, uh, just like distill metrics for success.

And I'm not just talking views, like, cause views and content is, it's just, that's a,

that's a game that you have to play with the algorithm.

Um, but how can we actually take that behind the scenes?

So that's something we're actually going to be doing probably over this month and into

the next month for 2026.

So cool.

Yeah.

I, um, I want to give a shout out to Saddleback Sam for making an appearance in yesterday's

conference.

Um, uh, Layton maybe nerded out a little bit.

Well, we'll get there here in a little bit, but, but Saddleback Sam made an appearance.

I, I, believe me.

I did not wake up yesterday morning thinking, Oh, we're going to talk about Saddleback Sam.

I mean, we talked about, you know, Saddleback Sam with the one, but I, so I was like, man,

man, Layton's like actually mentioning Saddleback Sam and Saddleback church describing.

And so that was, that was a surprise to me, all, all, all things considered, but, uh, but

very, uh, you know, it's interesting to me how not a lot of, um, well, it's interesting

to me how more and more digital missionaries, digital churches are recognizing the need and

the importance of finding the one there was, I remember, and actually let's go way back

the, the first, you know, 2021, the year that, uh, Mark launched, uh, Lux digital church.

Mark was part of the first cohort that I ever led at stadia where we had three or four, um,

guys that we, we walked through.

And, and at, to my recollection, Mark was the only one that was comfortable with the idea

of a one, the other three were like, that is, that's, you know, I mean, they didn't say

that's satanic, that's, but they're, they're, they're quoting the, you know, uh, everything

to all so that some may know they're, you know, they're taking the physical mentality as opposed

to recognizing, um, the importance of digital, of having a, a niche, a target.

And, uh, and so it was really interesting now to see four or five years later, since,

since, um, since Lux launched that now others are starting to really start to recognize the

importance of, of that niche and, and, and, and churches like Lux are, are very open to

sharing, Hey, what's, what's the secret sauce, finding that one and building on that, you know,

to not to say that, you know, so many are, it's like, well, what if God brings somebody

that doesn't fit into one?

It's like, well, then you bring who God brings you.

I don't know.

Uh, uh, you know, it looked like you wanted to say something there, Layton.

Oh, we, we were having a conversation around that post-conference because a couple of people

were pushing back against it, which I love when people challenge thinking, because it helps

us sharpen our thinking.

And I just use the illustration of if my person that I'm called to is a single mom who's struggling

financially, who's living paycheck to paycheck.

And I'm trying to reach out to her.

I'm going to reach you as a mom or dad who has a single daughter, because you're going to

resonate with my care for that person.

So I'm not trying to reach you.

I'm trying to reach the single mom, but you as a parent are going to say, I know your heart.

I know where you are.

I'm attracted to where you are and your care.

So I want to come along and join you and what you're doing.

So by focusing in on the one, it really resonates who we are to others around us.

As much as we reach that one, we begin to gather other people who might have similar

cares, similar passions, or just say, I love what you're doing.

And I want to join you.

Do you have any thoughts on that, Andy?

Andy, isn't there like some grandma that attends Lux?

I feel like I heard this story.

Oh, yeah.

No, no.

We have people that are above 60 and 65 regularly.

The cool thing about that, though, is that we are unabashedly aiming for the one at Lux.

And yet, when you do that, you're going to get, you know, it's a bell curve, right?

Like your one is the middle of the bell curve.

That's the 80%.

You're going to get 10% on either side.

The majority of the people are gamers.

And even so, a couple of the grandmas, one of them, she is in my small group.

She's not a grandma.

She's late 50s, early 60s.

She's in my small group, the small group I lead.

And she unashamedly says, I know nothing about this gaming stuff, but I love the fact that

young people are actually seeking Jesus on the internet.

This is the best way for me to connect.

And she loves opening her Bible and jumping into stuff.

And she's in service.

And she's asking questions.

And she's doing all that things because she resonates with the idea of this is actual community.

Not that it's community for her, but that it's actual community.

And it's kind of a safe place for her.

We have a lot of people like that.

And that's, again, we're unashamedly aiming for Shadow Slayer 329.

Like that is our, that is our, that is the distillation of who we're aiming for.

And yet, you're going to bring all the other people.

And it's like Leighton was saying, or even like Jeff, you were saying, like, instead of

going for all and grabbing few, why don't you go for the few and see what else you can

carry along with you?

It seems a lot more, you know, niching down is never a bad thing.

It seems a lot more niched, which is kind of what God's calling us to do in his kingdom

anyway, is to find our avenue in the kingdom, because there's millions of other people out

there that are trying to do the same thing.

Yeah.

For me, it's so good.

And it's interesting how the perspective is of having the one that you're not, you're

incapable of reaching beyond the one, but it's more of, whereas I look at more as a general

focus, we're going in this direction, but we're ministering to whoever God brings along.

And it's like, it's how that idea of the one kind of got twisted, I think, somewhere along

the way.

For me, the most powerful moment, and this may be self-serving, I apologize if it comes

across that way.

Seeing the response of the audience to the Next Steps platform was inspiring for me.

She was, I'm blanking, Andy, do you remember who did the talk yesterday, what her name was?

Kelly Bones.

Kelly, that's right, Kelly Bones.

Kelly Bones.

This was her maiden name.

I was like, that's got to be the most awesome maiden name in the history of all time.

And it was K Bones Tomp or something for her last name, her husband's name.

And she was so nervous.

Kelly, sorry, I'm going to out you here on the show.

She was really nervous about coming on.

It's the first time on Discord.

She's like, I should not.

Literally, she's like writing emails, you know, right before, I don't know what I'm doing.

How do I work this platform?

I'm jumping on Google Meet, doing a screen share, kind of walking her along.

Her husband's trying to help a little bit, and she's like, I don't know what I'm doing.

I don't know how this is going to work.

She did not understand the audience, I guess, more than anything.

Sorry, Kelly, I'm outing you.

But that group of people was so excited about the resource that Jesus Film Project's Next Steps platform was

and how they could utilize it.

Like, it was really cool to see in the chat engagement blow up and to see her face

and she's seeing the opportunity to connect.

Like, it just was really exciting to me in that one moment.

Go ahead, man.

And it's funny.

So that was happening, and then behind the scenes, so I popped into the room with you to kind of try to help.

I was only there for like 10 seconds and then bolted in.

I was like, oh, man, I hope she's going to be okay.

And she popped on, and she was fine.

She got her sea legs under her, and once she was able to start screen sharing, it was all great.

But the interesting thing was I immediately got two DMs from people, one of them from Dalton again,

and he was like, oh, this is mind-blowing.

And so he and another tab was like building out a thing for our Lux Kids engagement pathway

and all this other stuff.

I got a DM last night at like 7.30 as we were getting ready.

He said, this app is going to be dangerous.

I said, what do you mean?

Like, is this going to be a bad thing?

He said, no.

We're actually going to transition from some other things into using this app going forward for our Lux Kids program.

And I was like, all worth it right there, baby.

It was all worth it.

Yeah.

You know, once again, sponsorship aside, the Next Steps platform three years ago,

man, I would have been investing $5,000, $6,000, $7,000 in developing a custom application.

And I'm not even sure that custom app would have landed the plane as well as the Next Steps platform is doing for free.

Nextstep.is is the website.

You can check that out.

But that was, to me, that was really cool.

Because it's like, you know, a lot of times you're, oh, listen, there's all sorts of free resources we're providing.

Do this, do this.

And sometimes it's, you know, it's like the biblical scattering seed.

Sometimes it falls on Rocky Path and Thorny Bush.

And we tried.

But the connection point on that one was so beautiful.

Like, it just kind of was the walk away for me.

And so, well, then, of course, Layton's, which we'll get here in a little bit, the Super Mario slide deck that he shows.

I was like, man, once again, know your audience.

Go after your audience.

Well played with that.

Yeah.

Totally in theme.

Like, the only thing that would have made it better if Master Chief was, like, running in your background.

I'll, what, you know.

I had to represent Lux, you know.

I had to have my insignia up.

Totally.

I feel like I want to talk about Master Chief's.

He got moved over to Netflix.

I don't know if you saw that.

It got moved to his show.

The Halo show.

Yeah.

And I'm not, yeah, I was about to say, I'm not totally a fan.

I watched, like, a couple episodes.

I was like, yeah, I don't really care enough about this to dive into it.

But anyway.

For some reason, I just want to talk about it right now.

But maybe not.

Well, as an OG Halo player, I was semi-professional, almost professional in Halo 1, Halo 2.

And I have, like, a deep love for that lore.

And I watched that show with my kids.

And I was like, this is garbage.

They were into it because I had explosions and aliens and stuff.

And I'm just sitting there thinking, like, this is drivel.

Yeah, somebody was telling me it's like Mr. Chief, not Master Chief.

I'm still waiting for Contra, the movie, to come out.

Nah, that's just going to be bros.

That's Tropic Thunder.

That's what that is.

That's about to say.

Oh, well, yeah.

That's a good reference right there.

Yeah, there you go.

Robert Downey Jr. in...

I don't want to get canceled.

I'm not making any jokes at this point.

Sorry.

Andy, don't take me to bad places, man.

You almost took me someplace I did not want to go.

All right.

Hey, well, I do want to wrap up.

One last question before we go.

Are we doing this in 26?

Are we going to do a gaming track?

Are we going to do gaming something, another gaming conference?

What are you all feeling right now?

I mean, gun to my head, yes.

Because it's Discord handle, outside of a couple little Discord being Discord tweaks,

which, again, it's built on 30-year-old technology.

Outside of that, it performed remarkably well.

And the engagement in there was great.

It was incredibly well-received by all who attended.

And the cool thing, those numbers stayed up.

I mean, they weren't as high as our digital neighborhoods or anything.

But we essentially kept all of our numbers the entire time,

which is just insane for a six-hour conference or a five-hour conference.

I say, yeah.

And I say we could probably blow it up next time and make it a little bit bigger.

What's your take, Leighton?

What are you feeling?

I had, well, I'm open to that.

But I had another thought of because the time that we had was not enough time for people to actually process through all of the strategies

and the guidance we were trying to give, that maybe we need to make this into a cohort that people go into.

And we take the material and then we process through it so they could be working through all the things that were in the conference

in a group of, you know, maybe six, eight people that are going together, walking side by side, sharing what they're doing and do that for maybe six weeks.

Yeah.

It's almost, maybe it's both, you know, have the conference that is a big net to cast.

And then developing the smaller, more intimate to allow the applications to go.

But I am, it's that intriguing.

I mean, it's obvious Leighton's the relationship guy and Andy's the content guy.

Andy's thinking, hey, content's the win.

And then Leighton's thinking, hey, relationship, what about that?

And so figuring out ways to do both, maybe.

But yeah, I do think there's a lot of opportunities in gaming.

I do know that there's a lot more interest.

Andy and I, we talked about this yesterday.

It's a smaller niche than some of the other things that we had done.

So less people signed up.

However, a larger percentage of people showed up in those areas because that niche is more bought in and has more ownership.

And they're more tech savvy.

And so they're able to really run in some areas.

I would love to, you know, Mark, Lux Digital Church has been a supporter, obviously, with Andy involved.

And Bernie over at Reach, ReachCon.

And he's obviously has a history with the church digital as well and excited about some of the work he's doing with ReachCon.

I'm even thinking Blessing Boat.

I'm thinking Taco.

Like there's some of these fringe orgs around that, you know, if we can provide an opportunity to collaborate, engage, and, you know, create an ecosystem for all of these different organizations to thrive.

It might be an interesting opportunity.

We'll have to talk about it offline and figure it out.

All right.

Hey, so here's what we're going to do.

We're going to show Layton's talk right now from the conference.

Layton, I'll give you 20 seconds.

Do you want to set up an intro your own talk?

Well, I hadn't thought about doing that.

So essentially, I did training in church planting when I went to seminary and did a lot of that.

And I never ended up going into church planting because my denomination said, we don't know whether you'd be successful or not.

And their metrics all said you had to be successful.

But as I've been thinking through some of the how do you find your one, I find it sometimes difficult to start with the one.

So I wanted to start with who are you and figure out who you are, because that will help narrow you down.

Who you are is going to bring who you are to the person you need to find.

So that's where I started with the idea of trying to narrow down what is it I'm bringing to the person that will help me get closer to figuring out who the person is that I'm supposed to reach.

So never mind Saddleback Sam, who are you?

Who sings that song, Who Are You?

Who is that?

It's the Who.

Is it the Who?

The Who sings Who Are You?

From like CSI or whatever?

Yeah, it's the CSI.

But I mean, it's old.

It's old school.

It's like the Pinball Wizard era of the Who.

Who, who, who, who.

All right.

That's all I got.

I just got a copyright strike.

Let's not go too deep into this.

All right.

All right.

Hey, so here's Who Are You?

Talk by Leighton.

Check it out.

Thanks, everybody.

And at the end of it, I'll probably come back to wrap up.

See you in a second.

Speaking of diverse, I want to bring my friend Flatcap back up onto the stage.

Throughout this entire conference journey here at DMCon, Whitebeard, Flatcap and I have been

kind of going hammer and tongs, trying to make sure that we have stuff for you all, stuff

that actually matters in your digital missionary journey.

And, you know, I think a lot of people hear digital missionary and Flatcap, you can kind

of respond to this as well.

People hear digital missionaries and they go, oh, like I have to, I've got to go raise

the money and I've got to go do the thing and I've got to, like, sacrifice all my time.

I've got to go to, like, some weird off-the-wall place in the middle of some country that I

don't want to go to.

And what I think most people don't realize is that God is actually calling people right

now, just like you and I and everybody else in this room, to places on the Internet.

And Leighton is actually one of those.

Leighton, I'm sure he's going to talk a little bit about his story, but he was called to a

place on the Internet.

That place is called Twitch and Leighton has been building an audience and he has been

growing.

He's been doing things of the Bible on the audience, or in his own channel.

And then he pops into our TCD channels every once in a while and does a podcast and blows

the door off with these podcasts.

And so, Leighton, thanks for being here, man.

And I just, I wanted you to kind of lead into your talk a little bit.

Do me a favor and introduce kind of the document that we're going to be filling out.

I'm going to shrink away.

Ladies and gentlemen, Leighton says.

Wow, that was pretty awesome intro there.

Thanks, Andy.

Yeah, I can say Andy and I had a bunch of conversations about what we would want it to

be.

And the thing that I wanted is for you to walk away with something tangible in your hands.

And I don't mean that has to be a physical thing.

Digital documents, I'm all good with.

But you have something concrete that you're walking away with.

So if I posted it in the chat there, there's a document in Google Docs that is going to

have all of the questions that I'm going to ask.

It's going to have all the questions that the other speakers are going to ask.

Let me just actually do a screen share here a second if I can.

There we go.

Share that.

So you should be able to see that there.

So this is what the document is going to look like.

There's tabs on the bottom.

So here's the first talk.

There's a tab on the bottom.

There are my questions that are in there.

There is a way to answer this.

So I know that some of these questions you're not going to fully be able to answer right

now.

We're going to give you time to work on them.

So it's not just, hey, it's all theoretical.

Hey, it's all in your head.

You're resonating with them and you have no time to work on it.

So we will give you built in time during the conference to go and answer these questions.

You can't answer one question, then focus on the next one.

But today and throughout the next weeks and months as you're filling this out, that'd be

your initial answer as you're resolving this.

And then the thought process is come and reevaluate this in three months, six months down the road

and see, is it still the same?

A year from now, is it still the same?

Have you refined who the person is depending on the question there?

And then there's some concerns or things to resolve.

So as you're answering questions, maybe something pops up in your mind and you say, oh, I don't

know about this.

Here's my problem with trying to figure that out.

So put some thoughts in there.

And then just any speaker notes.

Like I put in notes, like if you ever see notes that I go to a conference, my wife could

never interpret them because they have absolutely nothing to do with what the speaker said.

It is what my brain does.

So any notes that you want to take, but additional thoughts would be where I'm going to put all of

my stuff probably.

So there's, there's the first talk here, then you get the tab on the bottom, you'll go to

the next tab and then the next tab and the next tab.

So that's all of your information.

One document, download it, make a copy of it, whatever you need to do.

You'll have that for the whole of today as we are sharing.

Okay, now let me figure out how to stop sharing screen.

There we go.

So just to back up a little bit on, on my story, because I didn't plan on being in Twitch.

I did not think this is what I was going to do.

I never felt like, I mean, I always love playing games.

We were asking what games, my most of the time game of choice is Assassin's Creed.

I do have Dishonored, Rise, Shadows.

So I'm an RPG player.

That's where I'm going to spend my time.

I'm just looking.

I got one, two, three, four Assassin's Creed sitting right in front of me that we could

pull out and play if you wanted to.

But I never thought that's what God was going to use me for.

And the thing that's interesting, and I put this on one of the videos trying to promo everything

was I got into drama ministry when I got into college and that's where I met my wife.

And then I thought I'm never going to do anything with this because I really didn't think I was

going to.

That's not what I was going to do.

And then years later, I was feeling God's tug on my heart to do something in ministry.

And I was at this conference.

I had people who prayed over me.

I got back, I picked up the bulletin, and it said, we're looking for someone to head

up and do our drama ministry for the church.

And I went, wow, this feels like an answer to what God's calling me to do.

But my thought was, can I actually go do something that I think is fun and God use it?

And the answer is yes.

And so that was kind of the, I call it, the rejuvenation of the dream that God gave me

as a kid.

I'm one of those weird kids that's seven years old, went around and told everyone I

was going to be a pastor when I was seven years old.

So God put that in my heart.

Then when I was in seminary, I thought I was going to be a church planter.

That didn't happen.

Then I served in several churches.

So along the way, I kind of see detours that keep happening.

And one of those detours happened during COVID when I was sitting home.

And a friend of mine I'd been watching or listening to, hadn't watched him yet, Pastor Brock VR,

was doing ministry in VR spaces and on Twitch.

So I started watching him.

And then I just started moving into that space.

And as I was thinking about things, one of the things that we talk about a lot in church

planting is who is the one person that God is calling you to reach.

But before we get into that, I'm going to, let me just pull up my, there we go.

Might as well put my title up here.

I mean, I worked on it so that you guys could see it.

Oh, wrong one.

There we go.

So one quest, one focus.

So when Andy and I were sitting down and saying, what should this conference be?

My thought was, I want someone to be able to guide a person who has been called to do digital

ministry, but doesn't know how or who.

And I want them to be able to walk away and be able to feel like God has definitely called

them.

And now they have some tangible things that they can focus on and be able to do in the

space.

And so I don't know how many of you played Zelda when it first came out.

I know I got Mario here on the screen, but overall, just thinking about old games, when

they came out, they didn't have multiplayer very often.

They were one player.

You played the hero.

There was the idea to rescue the princess, whether that's Zelda or Mario, you're going to go rescue

the princess.

There's obstacles to overcome, you gain power for the journey, and then you finish the game.

And I just think sometimes there are so many options that are out there that we lose focus.

I mean, I'm trying to think of what game it was, but some things have gotten so open world

that I never finished the game because I don't know what I'm doing.

I'm the person that wants to do every side quest so that I have infinite power and I go

against the level 50 characters when I'm finally level 100 and I just waltz through the game

with ease.

Well, you can't spend all your time doing side quests or you never complete the game.

You never actually go do the mission that is the purpose of the game in the first place.

We can easily get distracted by everything else that is happening.

So I want to help you be able to figure out what is your one quest, your one focus.

But I want to go in a little bit different direction than maybe you've heard before.

So I'm going to go over a couple things and then I'm going to give you time to reflect on these

in your worksheets.

And when we go to time on the worksheets, you can leave the stage area.

If you're a verbal processor like me, if you've got people that are together in a ministry that

you're together with, like there's those who are here with Lux Digital Church.

If you want to go to one chat room and hang out there and have conversations and work on

your document, that's great.

If you don't want to work on your document, you just want to talk it out, that's great.

I don't care.

I'm just trying to provide the things for you to help you be able to do this.

So what is the basic human need that you need to meet?

Now, there's different ways of talking about this.

I'm not talking about hierarchy of needs here with Mavloff.

I think it's Mavloff, but what people's basic needs are in life.

And yeah, Maslow.

Oh, there we go.

Thank you, Andy.

The basic need someone has.

Does someone have a basic need for goodness?

This is a person who looks at the world and the world is filled with evil all over the place.

They watch the news.

They're downhearted by it because it's just overwhelming.

They need to find goodness.

So if you are a person who's bringing goodness, you are going to reach that person that looks

at the world and all they see is bad everywhere.

They don't have goodness in their life.

Their life is filled with all kinds of tragedy or whatever it is.

Or, you know, so that's what you'll be bringing when you bring goodness.

Now, some people need to have truth brought to them.

They don't know.

There's so many voices out there.

There's the flat earthers on one side who are telling you that you need to believe this.

And there's the regular people looking at a globe and saying it's obvious.

And they really are seeking truth because it's so noisy out there.

And they need someone to speak truth to them of what's going on.

Or perhaps they need freedom.

Like they grew up in a church that was rigid and defined and you had no ability to do anything.

Everything was rules and they haven't found freedom in Christ.

And so what you can bring to them is freedom.

And they're longing for it.

They've been in chains of bondage to do's and don'ts.

And they need freedom.

And maybe that's what you bring.

I'm not going to go through all of these in that kind of detail.

But you begin to see how these things are, things that people need.

There's a lot of people that I run into in Twitch that need a place to belong.

Yeah, felt needs versus real needs.

Exactly, exactly.

And it can be both a felt and a real need.

So they need a place to belong.

A lot of people need a place to belong.

Hope is another thing that people need.

Life at times can feel hopeless.

They don't know that tomorrow is going to be better than today.

So I want to, like I'm tipping my hand here.

Hope is one of the things.

And I have a buddy that's down the road.

I met at a conference, which is funny.

I went to Orlando to meet somebody that's a half an hour away from me.

He lives in our city and he calls himself a hope dealer.

That is what his mission is, is to bring hope to people.

Some people need confidence.

They don't believe that what they have to say is valuable and they need other people to believe in them and to come behind them.

Connection.

I mean, online, people are looking for connection all over the place.

They're looking for a place that will accept them.

And this isn't saying accept them for their doing sin and they want people to, you know, say it's okay.

Like, hey, I'm having an affair with my wife and I need to find people who agree with me that that's a cool thing to do.

No, no, not that kind of thing.

That, hey, like me, I'm a little weird.

I got hats and I got fish.

And that's who I am.

You need to know that.

And I'm not changing that.

But I want you to accept me because I wear all these hats all the time.

And I have a few of them.

So it's about, I'm not trying to change you.

I am going to embrace you for who you are.

Joy, a lot of people do not have things to celebrate in their life.

Can you bring them something to be able to celebrate?

Support.

This can actually be physical support.

It can be financial support.

It can be emotional support.

What is it that somebody needs?

And how can you bring that to them?

Significance.

A lot of people have no place where they're significant.

They feel like they are a nobody.

And when they find a place that they can contribute, they can find significance.

And some people need revelation.

They need someone to speak into them and to bring something new.

So my question is, what basic human need do you meet?

So I am going to bring a certain approach to things.

So rather than trying to figure out who I'm going to reach first, I want you to think about

who it is that you are going to be reaching.

So I am seeing a few people typing in the chat.

Make sure you make a copy of this for yourself so that you can fully access that.

And we won't be all sharing the same one when you open that up or download it.

And then you'll have it for yourself.

You can go in and identify with one of those.

And I would say two.

There's probably top two.

Actually, as I think about it, what I do on stream is two things.

And what I do in Discord is two different things.

But that's okay.

So what I'm bringing to people that they find first and then the needs I'm meeting later.

So think about those.

And you'll have more time to look at that in just a little bit.

Now, this is connected off of crew.

And we'll talk about crew later on of their audience map.

And so I want to unpack this in a different way than they're using it.

But I might feel called to a certain group of people.

And I'm comfortable addressing people who are going to be in a relationship with Jesus in one of these spaces.

So maybe they're hostile to the gospel.

You know, the trolls that are showing up.

Maybe you feel good and able to be an evangelist and confront people that are going to argue with you.

That are going to say things about Jesus.

Maybe that's where you are.

So is that where you are?

You're able to go to hostile people?

Then that's going to help you figure out those things.

Are you going to people who are uninterested?

It's a little bit harder to get people who are uninterested.

So, for instance, you're just playing an FPS game.

You're shooting some people.

And then you're saying, hey, I know you probably didn't come here to talk about Jesus.

But let me tell you about my Jesus.

Maybe that's the group that you're called to.

Some people that are uninterested.

And believe it or not, there are people that are unaware.

They just have no idea.

I mean, they know.

They've heard about Jesus.

They've never studied him.

They live in a country where maybe they didn't grow up around Christians.

They just don't have any idea.

And they're completely unaware.

So, in this relationship with Jesus, where are the people that you want to reach?

Are they open?

They're open to the gospel.

They just haven't had anyone tell them about it.

Dual?

This would be, well, I know about Jesus, but I also have another religion.

And I'm just trying to put every piece together that I can.

So, I'm going to put anything together that works.

Or maybe they're unclear.

They watch the different people on television.

And they hear different things.

And they don't understand the difference between a Catholic, a Baptist, a Methodist, a Mormon.

And they just have no idea.

They just, all these people saying Jesus.

But I don't really understand anything about it.

And some of us might be looking for those people that are seekers.

They're out there.

They're looking for Jesus.

They want to know more about him.

And so, they're already going towards Jesus.

Or maybe you're called to people who are already professing Jesus.

So, maybe at some point in their life, they said the sinner's prayer.

Or they grew up in church.

They know about Jesus.

They have a relationship.

And they have no activity.

So, they might be professing.

Maybe they are the ones that go to Christmas and Easter service.

But they're not doing more.

Maybe you're called to those.

Or maybe you're called to someone who's growing.

They're already on the path.

They just need a mentor to come alongside and disciple them.

Maybe somebody's grounded in the Word.

But they're not growing.

They're far away.

They're established.

But they don't know what to do.

Or maybe they're fully engaged.

I mean, maybe you're called to the people that are already fully engaged.

So, you would be called to take a discipleship group.

And help them be able to move into leadership in some way.

And then there's those who are called to multiply other people.

So, it's taking Christians, helping them go to the next level of something that they are going to be working on and doing.

So, my question is for you to figure out these two things.

Because I want to start with you first.

One of the things that I always struggle with, I'm trying to find that person out there to start with.

My Saddleback Sam, if you know what that reference is.

Saddleback Church did everything based on one person that they identified.

But I think you have to figure out who you are first.

So, are you interested in people that have no relationship with Jesus?

Are you interested in people that already have a relationship with Jesus?

Are you interested with people that are wherever they are?

And then the other one was the what basic need do you have?

So, I'm going to stay here.

But I'm going to invite all of you to go take...

How much time do we have, Andy?

Five, ten minutes?

Let's go take five minutes.

You can go jump into another chat.

And you can go over to any one of the other voice channels that's open if you want to chat with other people.

Otherwise, just spend some time in reflection thinking about what those are.

Yeah, Andy, thanks for posting that again.

So, start filling it out.

Answering those questions.

What basic human need do you meet?

And what relationship with Jesus do you want to reach?

And if you have questions, you want to stay here, you can post those in the chat.

If you go off to the other ones, we will meet back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

I'll stay here and I'll just answer any questions you have in the chat.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

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So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

So, be back here at 11.35.

All right, seeing some really good stuff in the chat.

Hope that was enough time to think through some of it and some really good questions around

things.

So, one of them was, "How do I know who it is that I might be called to?"

Well, let me just ask this.

"If I have an engagement with someone who's a troll who comes in and they're hostile in

my stream or someone else's stream, do I get excited about the ability to have a conversation

about Jesus with them?

To engage them?

To bring them from a point of hostility to neutrality, if you will?

Then that might be the person you're called to."

So, it's kind of like that.

"Oh, I get really excited when this kind of a person shows up, someone of another faith

who's uninterested in Christianity.

Do I get excited when somebody is open, when they come in and they're like, 'Hey, I like

what you're doing.

You said something about Jesus.

I'd like to know more,' or someone who is already professing faith but they're not active.

Like, "Yeah, I'm a Christian, but can you really define what that is?"

So, it's somewhat, I think, you get excited about working with that person, talking with

that person is going to be part of it.

There is also some ways where God may call you to people that you don't get excited about.

He might put you in places.

So, it's not that you only reach one person, but it's like, 'Here's where I'm going

to be engaging or spending my time,' because God keeps bringing that kind of person in front

of me, and then I enjoy that, so I'm going to be, keep doing that."

Dr. Heal said, "It sort of goes beyond what relationship with Jesus do I want to reach,

and what relationship do I feel God is calling me to reach?"

Yeah.

Dr. Heal said, "I feel those go both hand-in-hand, that I may be called to it, and I may also

enjoy that as well."

Dr. Heal said, "Like it or not, I really feel God is calling me into a space where there

will definitely be a bit more hostility and uninterested, unclear."

Yes.

And I think going into digital spaces is definitely one of those places that's going to do that.

Dr. Heal said, "Oh, let's see if there's anything else," and again, I'm trying to just

help you figure this out, and you can totally say, "This doesn't work for you, this piece

doesn't work."

Maybe the part on finding the basic human need resonates with you more of, "I'm going to focus

on goodness, that's what I bring, I'm going to focus on belonging, that's the people I'm

going to."

So, one of these might be the primary, one of these might be the secondary, but hopefully

it's helping you to narrow into one specific person that you're going to reach.

I've focused in on one specific style of hat that I'm going to wear.

Hats are great.

I've always loved hats.

What's really weird is, I've tried to figure out why I've always loved hats, and this might

sound strange, but I have a vivid memory of a first funeral I went to.

One of my great uncles is in the casket, and he has a painter's cap on that is white with

red polka dots, and that's what he always wore.

And I thought that was the coolest thing.

So, you know, I strived to try to find the style and the hat that I liked the most and

made the most connection with, and now that is what I focus on.

I wear other hats, but they don't fit exactly the same way as everything else that I'm going

to do.

So, that's what some of these things are going to be about, and maybe they resonate more with

you, and maybe others don't, but one of the other things that you want to find is the one

person you're reaching, because if I'm trying to play 45 different games, play a different

game every day of the month, and then throw some extras in there on top, I'm probably not

going to reach a lot of people, because nobody knows what I'm going to be doing.

So, I want to be as specific as I can.

Here's where I struggle, is trying to narrow that down.

What is the age?

So, this is what Saddleback Sam was.

Saddleback Sam was between 30s and 40s, college educated, lived in the suburbs, worked in tech

or business, busy, driven, and success oriented, overscheduled, stressed, skeptical of organized

religion, spiritually curious, but unchurched, wanted practical answers to life's problem,

not religious tradition.

Oh, someone found a hat.

Actually, it would be the opposite.

It would be red polka dots, not white, but I love that image.

That's so cool.

Re-reaching max capacity might make stage limit 50 to 75.

You don't know if it's adjustable.

Yeah.

I don't know.

We'll have to figure that out.

Andy, you'll be up for that.

Hmm.

It'll automatically adjust up to 1,000.

Super cool.

Didn't know that.

All right.

So, this is what they did.

Now, the more specific you can get, the easier it is when you're going to stream and make a

decision to say, hey, or if you're doing something else, if it's not gaming, but we're mostly

talking about gaming here, but it can be applied to other places.

Is this person going to be a stay-at-home dad that I'm trying to reach?

Is this person going to be a gamer girl that I'm trying to reach?

Is this person, what age are they going to be?

So, one of the things to answer are those demographic questions.

And I will give you copies of these slides so you can have all of them, but you know what

demographics are.

So, I don't have all of these listed in the document, but how old is your ideal viewer?

What is their gender?

Where do they live?

And it could be country.

It could be city.

It could be suburb.

It could be rural.

Maybe you know specifically.

Maybe you're just more broad to start with.

And as you can keep refining it and getting more narrow, it's better.

Oh, North Hill Live.

Exactly.

Language.

What is their level of education?

What is their income range?

What is their profession or job?

Are they single, married, or have kids?

So, those are all going to be things that you can solve.

Now, maybe as you're going and answering these, you don't know all of them.

But answer the ones that you can when we give you time to go and answer your demographic

questions and just start with ones that you're going to know.

And then some psychological questions.

What do they believe about the world?

What do they believe about themselves?

Do they believe the world is getting better?

Do they believe the world is terrible?

What do they believe about themselves?

Are they always self-conscious?

Are they confident?

What are the things that they are going to have in mind?

So, I'm going to ask you, how does income affect how you talk to people?

If I'm talking to someone who is struggling paycheck to paycheck or unemployed,

what I might bring to them and how I approach them might be different than if I'm called to reach

somebody that has five cars in their garage.

So, I might be talking to them differently.

The person who has five cars in their garage may have strived after, been really successful,

but have no hope because everything seems fleeting and they're going to leave everything that

they have to some incompetent kids and they just think this is worthless.

I strived all of my life to do this and now, you know, it doesn't make any difference.

Whereas someone who is struggling paycheck to paycheck might be coming from a place of the world is against me.

No matter what I do, I can't ever get ahead.

Why does God seem to be against me?

So, maybe not specific income level, but stage of how they're doing things might make a difference to who you're called to

and how you would approach them.

So, great question.

Yeah, if you're playing the latest and greatest game all the time, you probably won't reach someone with low income

who's still playing retro stuff.

Yeah.

And I appreciate the questions.

And as I'm able to, I'll stop and answer those because those are more vital than me getting through my stuff.

That's what I believe.

Your questions are more vital to you than for me to just be able to go to my next slide.

So, what do people do spending their free time?

Most of us are probably going to be putting gaming on here, but maybe you're trying to reach a specific group

that also has another thing that you love to do.

Like, I love cycling.

So, I've started cycling and streaming my cycling.

So, maybe that's part of what I'm going to do is reach people that love doing that.

What social media platforms or websites do they do most?

A lot of us are here on Twitch, but maybe you're reaching people that are going over to Kick

or they're another place or they just watch YouTube videos of good content.

So, maybe that's where they are.

What brands do they love and why?

Like, maybe they're Xbox, maybe they're PlayStation, maybe they're Nintendo.

Why is that?

Where is their loyalty?

How does that make a difference of you reaching them?

And how do they make decisions?

Do they use logic?

Do they use emotion?

Are they impulsive?

Now, you might not be able to answer all of these questions.

I'm just giving you a variety of ways to be able to address how do you think through.

I know I'm called to reach that person.

Asking questions that affect how a Tier 2 question might be answered.

This approach affects how you might define a missing successful interaction.

Absolutely, Hector.

Yes.

Yeah, I think the other thing is what genre do you play?

Yeah, are you FPS or RPG?

I absolutely think.

Or Retro Gamer.

Yes.

All right.

Pain points.

What are the challenges or the pains that someone has in their life?

What keeps them up at night?

You know, is it going back to the person with finances?

Or is it finding meaning in life?

Is it their kids?

Is it work?

Is it marriage?

Where is it?

What are their pain points?

What problems are they actively trying to solve?

And if you can help solve that, for instance, if you are in a community and people are coming in that are trying to solve problems with raising their kids,

And you're able to do a community thing around helping out kids and having a watch party with kids in your Discord or in some other community, you're addressing a felt need that they might be having.

What are they trying already that hasn't worked?

What do they complain about most often in this area?

So it might be the person comes into your stream regularly and they always bring up the same topic.

I'm always struggling with health.

I'm always struggling with health.

Or my mom's always struggling with health.

Or I'm always getting bullied at school.

Whatever it is that they're doing, how can you help them with those pain points?

What fears or insecurities might be holding them back?

All different ways of asking that.

You might not be able to answer all these.

It's just different ways to try to answer those questions of getting you closer to knowing,

Ah, here's the kind of person that I'm going to run into.

Also, don't think that if I narrow it down to one person, that means I'll only reach one person.

The narrower you get, you actually end up reaching more people who resonate with what you are trying to do for that one person.

Yes, also what platform meeting on social VR, for example, and very different watching Let's Plays while doing stuff.

Yeah, absolutely.

If you are in VR, that is another place to be able to bring in platforms to all of that.

Health is huge.

Money, depression.

Yes.

How do you stay away from people becoming projects?

Ooh, that's an interesting question.

In some ways, there is a piece at which you need to have healthy boundaries in ministry altogether.

So, for me as a pastor, when I am in person, I may have my phone available at all hours of the day.

If someone is regularly calling me only when I'm in bed at night or only at other times,

then I might need to have a conversation with them about this wasn't an emergency.

Middle of the night really is only for emergencies.

So, I think in some of those ways, if someone is becoming a project, that can even be an okay thing if they are.

One of the things we often had in one place that I live is we would have people that would come in every single year and ask for assistance.

And we knew in 12 months, we would see them coming back and asking for assistance.

And we had to be okay with that to say, this person is where they are.

We're going to meet them wherever they are for as long as we can.

But one of the other things, and this would go to recovery ministry and compassion fatigue on some level.

So, that's stuff that we covered on another conference.

But I do want to address that in some ways is you need to have boundaries around yourself and your community so that someone does not take too much away from you.

So, I don't know if that makes sense, if that's answering your question.

But I think it's okay for someone to be a project on some level as long as you didn't seek them out to say, I'm going to fix them.

When someone comes to you with needs and you keep trying to help their needs, if it's too much for you, bring in other people, bring in the community, hand them off to someone else, refer them beyond.

So, for instance, if I had someone that came in for marriage counseling, I'd usually meet with a couple three times.

I might meet with him or her three times.

After that, you need to go and have someone who has more skills and more level than I do to deal with it.

So, when someone becomes a project, it's an assessment of, is this a person that's just supposed to hang out with me?

And it's going to be this ongoing, I'm going to minister to them for a long time or they have needs beyond what I can do and I can pass them on.

Yeah, definitely need to have the Holy Spirit.

Absolutely.

Just catching up on if there's anything in chat.

Yeah, yeah, in Discord.

Well, that's another thing I do, for instance, too, is if someone's in the middle of a crisis, I will let them know you can DM me at any time.

However, I won't see the DM until I wake up in the morning my time.

So, don't feel I'm ignoring you.

Don't feel I'm putting you aside.

Those are the boundaries that I've had is I'm not going to check my messages while I'm sleeping.

I'm going to be available for you as soon as I'm awake and I will respond as soon as I see your message.

So, there's where I've put some of those boundaries and when you get global, some of that needs to be the case because for them, three in the afternoon might be three in the morning for you and they're just thinking about it and they don't want to spend the next six hours saying,

Why haven't you called me or messaged back?

So, having some of those things are a good way to be able to be thinking about that.

And several people talking about the Holy Spirit.

Absolutely, in all of this, the Holy Spirit is absolutely a part of it.

Now, maybe you have people that you're going to reach that pain points isn't the main thing for you.

Maybe it's goals and aspirations.

What is their ultimate dream or goal?

Maybe their dream is to be a full-time streamer and you are going to reach people that that's their goal.

Maybe it's somewhat or what outcome would make them feel successful.

Maybe they're going to college and you're going to help them or you're going to be walking alongside of them as they do that.

Or maybe it's their parenting and what they'd really like is a better relationship with their ex or something along those lines

and how to parent, co-parent when you're not in a same household with the person who's the other parent.

So, it could be any kind of these things that you would think of.

And what would they want to achieve in one to five years from now?

Or who do they admire and look up to?

So, there's a ton of different ways to approach this.

You can go demographics, you can go psychological, you can go pain points or challenges,

and you can go goals or aspirations to be able to reach people.

So, I'm going to give you just five minutes if you want time to go and fill out those questions while you're thinking about it,

while you still have fresh in your mind.

And then if there's any questions after that, we'll answer those.

So, you know what?

Actually, I'm going to cut a little short.

How about we come back?

I'll give you three minutes.

I told you five.

I'll give you three.

I know you won't get through all of them.

Let's come back at 11.55.

I'll stay here if you want to go.

Like I said, you're free to join in another room and hang out and answer those.

And if you have questions, just type those in chat.

And if you want to go to the next one, you're free to join in another room and try to join in another room and try to join in another room.

And if you want to go to the next room, you'll be able to join in another room and try to join in another room.

And if you want to join in another room and try to join in another room and try to join in another room.

And if you want to join in another room and try to join in another room and try to join in another room.

And if you want to join in another room and try to join in another room and try to join in another room and try to join in another room.

And if you want to join in another room and try to join in another room and try to join in another room.

And if you want to join in another room and try to join in another room and try to join in another room.

And if you want to join in another room and try to join in another room and try to join in another room.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ideally, you would have lots of time to spend all of it doing here, but we just want to

give you a flavor of it.

Begin thinking that way and then move into some other things.

Give me more screens on a printer.

Yeah.

Laptop.

Yeah.

I wish I could put them all up there, but it doesn't work that way.

Okay.

I think that's it for what I have.

Thank you for hanging out with me.

Loved all of your questions and what you were bringing.

And we'll be continuing this discussion as we go forward.

Flat cap.

Thanks, man.

Can we get some fives in chat from Mr. Flat cap Dapper Pastor over there?

I think that the coolest thing that happens when you start to think about your one, we did this exercise a couple of years ago at our very first Megazord conference.

And then we did it subsequently at last year's, no, the first year you were at us at Nerd Culture Ministry Summit.

We did the same thing.

And an interesting thing happens when you actually start to define your one.

You actually start to, you start to learn how to put the blinders on.

There's an old Japanese proverb that I'm a, I'm a kind of, I'm a runner and I'm a fitness guy and all that, as well as a gamer.

And one of the things that a lot of personal trainers and a lot of people will say, it's an old Japanese proverb.

It says, man who chased two rabbits end up with none, but man who chased one rabbit end up with good meal.

And the idea behind that is not that we're going to be like dining and feasting on the people that we're trying to serve,

but instead we will catch the goal that we are chasing if we narrow it down.

All right.

Man who feasts on rabbits, man who feasts on rabbits, man who, I, I, I, Andy, what was that again?

That was a little weird.

I'm just saying.

Hey, Jeff here, wrapping up.

This is live, Jeff, as opposed to semi-live Jeff, as you've been watching and in the replay.

Hey, listen, and thank you, Leighton, Andy, for all the work you put into making the Digital Missionary Gaming Summit happen.

It's been an incredible experience.

Excited about new relationships, new connections, and even extending this on through cohorts and other things in the days and weeks and months to come.

Hey, excited.

We did announce, and we're going to get more into this in the stream next week, the next Digital Missionary Summit is going to be May 12th and 13th, 2026.

The two-day summit.

I'm going to talk more about that in the stream next week.

I'm actually out of town.

I'll be in Denver.

Hey, Denver people.

Love me some Colorado.

I'm going to be in Denver Tuesday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of next week.

So, Thursday, I'll be doing a stream pretty much same time, I think.

I don't know what time.

Look, check in TCD's fam on Discord or WhatsApp to stay up to date with what's going on.

But at this point, I'm going to land a plane.

Thank you, Andy.

Thank you, Leighton.

Thank you, everybody who's hung out with me for the stream today.

But we're going to close.

So, for Andy, for Leighton, and for Untold Gamers, and even Saddleback Sam, this is Jeff at the Church Digital.

Thanks for hanging out today, and we'll see you next week on this show.

Y'all have a good one.