S2 E4 | How Do I Create Margin in My Life? | After the Message

Welcome to the Celebration Church Orlando podcast.

This is a segment we like to call After the Message, where the conversation about life, God, and the Bible continue beyond Sunday.

We hope today's episode will encourage, enlighten, and inspire you.

The last time you two were on this couch, we had a little mini therapy session for the internet.

And so I'm excited to see what today will produce.

Welcome to another episode of After the Message here on the Celebration Church Orlando podcast.

We have Pastors Keith and Megan Pittman, senior pastors of Celebration Church Orlando, joining me today.

It's covering my mouth.

Oh, there you go.

Keep it in the episode.

Let's keep going.

Um, you know, it seems counterintuitive to talk about what we're gonna talk about today, but we're gonna talk about margin when it comes to rhythms.

Yeah.

Because you would think that if I have a rhythm, then like things just go as planned, things go how they according to plan and how they should go.

But you know, we'll uh we'll try and develop what a healthy margin rhythm looks like moving forward.

So yeah, uh before uh we do that, um Pastor Megan, uh how are you doing today post your Airbnb experience that we were talking about?

So post my Airbnb experience.

Here we go.

Uh I'm doing all right.

Okay.

Uh there's some standards that you know you just want when you you go out.

You you want to have some clean experiences.

I mean, it was clean, but you know, ish.

It's just, you know, uh my first Airbnb experience, but um, I don't know, maybe a hotel next time.

Your rhythm was interrupted, is what I'm hearing.

Yes.

Yes.

Are you saying that you would not you don't want to do an Airbnb again?

Um, I almost need to do like a drive-by and and say, hey, can I see it?

Can I see it first?

I didn't even know that was a thing, but if if anyone's gonna make the request, it'll be you.

I love that.

For sure.

So now when I talk about the bouginess of my wife and the the spectrum of it, you guys are seeing it on real display.

Yeah.

Okay.

You don't say that when I'm at home cleaning and you have a I appreciate that the clean experience.

I benefit from it.

Okay.

I do.

I do.

I'm just trying to keep up.

That's all.

I told you guys.

Here's the therapy session, you guys.

We're working it out in real time.

Margin.

Margin.

Let's talk about it.

Let's talk about a little bit of margin and making intentional room in our schedules in a world that isn't conducive to such.

Yes.

Um, why are we talking about this in the series?

What does this have to do with the Bible?

Like, you know, help help me connect the dots here.

Yeah, for sure.

Um I think at at its core, the the definition, working definition of margin would be it's the it's the gap between your capacity and your obligations.

Okay.

And so I think we live in a world where we we we we live with so little margin that when God is prompting us to do something, we don't have the room to do it.

Um if God is prompting us, let's look at it from the standpoint of even even like uh finances.

If God is prompting you to do something, do you have the margin to do it, or do is every dollar so expended that you don't even have the ability to step into a moment?

So I look at that same way when it comes to like our our time and our energy, that there's so many things that you see in scripture that are that are outside of the the regularly scheduled program.

Yeah.

And and if we live our lives so tightly wound around a schedule, then we miss the opportunities to to step into these moments that God invites us into.

And and I think we'll probably get into this later, but I'll go ahead and breadcrumb it now.

Yeah.

So much of the ministry of Jesus was him being interrupted.

He's on his way somewhere.

Hey, we got to go over here.

But while he's on the way, things happen.

And so it challenges me because um I'm a man of rhythms and routines, and I won't say that I'm overly rigid, but I just kind of like having certain things going.

And and every time I read the gospels and I just see just the the nature of Christ and his willingness to allow things to come that weren't part of the plan, it convicts me.

So it I think it's connected to the series because I realize so many miracles happen in the margins.

Yeah, I think I think it's really hard when some of us are wired with uh change.

Like it's hard to change.

Like anything that interrupts change is hard to adapt to.

So it's like, how do we then um allow ourselves to get to a place where we're flexible with those things that may interrupt our schedules to be able to like move forward?

Yeah, it's factual.

It's something that you say often, you know, pain is never convenient, right?

And as pastors and leaders in the church, it's not like, well, this person's gonna be dealing with marriage issues on Monday, so I'll carve out some time.

You know, this person's gonna, you know, experience a death in the family on Tuesday.

So I, you know, like you we don't have that luxury, right?

So can you, Pastor Man, can you kind of speak to the interruption of and and it sounds kind of crude to say the interruption, but for lack of this episode, I think we all know what we're talking about.

But getting the phone call, you know, receiving the message, hey, I need you to call me right now, you know, this is going on.

How do you how do you navigate that or how are you learning, I guess, because we're all on this journey to navigate that as a leader?

I think in certain seasons you have where that flexibility is more given than in other seasons.

And so in this moment, is is this an emergency that I need to do right now?

Like someone passing away.

Sure.

Someone going to the hospital immediately is really like the measure that I have to like filter my um schedule or my emotions for.

So those I tend to, hey, let me jump on the phone call really quick.

I can I look to see what I'm doing at that moment.

So if someone called right now and I was doing this interview, like I'm doing now or doing this podcast, I would say, hey, can I give you a call back in the next 30 minutes?

Um, I I'm so sorry.

I would lend my empathy then so I'm not dismissing someone and then return to it as soon as I'm done.

But it it is that is the priority.

You have to evaluate what is the priority right now?

Is this something that is a 911?

Like if someone passes away, hey, make can we post this for a little bit?

Can I step outside and do this?

So I think it's just measuring the uh extreme of what someone is going through versus is this something that I can address afterwards?

Because everything is meaningful, right?

You're not dismissing it, but it's like, is this very, very urgent that I need to address in this moment and prioritizing that because life is going to go on, but being there in the moment for someone is all also important.

Absolutely.

And you never want to um be in a spot where it's your work prioritizes people.

Yeah.

It's like a triage, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Hey, is how do I use the best wisdom and discernment to understand, like, okay, is this person freaking out unnecessarily?

Like, yeah, you know, kind of what you mentioned, like, what's the gravity of the situation here?

Like, how can I help talk someone off the ledge, maybe momentarily, and then let's kind of get back to it.

But I'll say this, Nate.

I I think I've I've watched this um with being in ministry for for so many years, and like one of the most practical examples I I saw, Megan, you may remember this, maybe not this particular instance, but the season of life.

But I remember I was when I was walking through the the ministry hall of the the C Kids Wing um at the church we were at in Jacksonville, um, and and there was a room with like with like the toddlers.

And um one of the toddlers is freaking out, and you could kind of see this cascading effect that if one freaks out, then the other starts to freak out, the other starts to freak out.

And so you could see um that the people that were serving that they were trying to manage the one while either other ones were still a little disruptive.

And I remember just watching that, and I and I genuinely felt, and I think this was intellectual, but also maybe a prompting from the spirit, it's like sometimes you got to quiet the loudest voice first, and you deal with that one first, and maybe that'll have a cascading effect.

So I didn't even know for me, I'm looking at things as like, okay, like what's the loudest thing right now that needs the most amount of attention?

And maybe there could be a domino effect, or at least it can kind of help shift the atmosphere a little bit.

So for me, it's I literally have a running thing in my head, like, okay, how do I quiet the loudest voice right now?

Yeah.

What do I need to do to deal with it?

Because that could possibly be the thing that sets the tone for everything else.

For people with really full calendars and it seems like everything's the loudest voice, you know, what do they do?

Like, how how do you how do you create margin?

Like, where do you find the space to be able to be interrupted, but also even to catch a breath, kind of like we talked about previous episode, you know, for for some rest.

Can I be honest?

I'm a freestyler.

Okay.

Yes, yeah.

I freestyle everything in this season.

I cannot.

I am adding school onto my plate.

I cannot freestyle.

So I've literally been this message is so this conversation is so fitting because I'm realizing, yes, I have to really be intentional about my calendar and about what God has placed in my hands, ministry-wise, school-wise, and family-wise.

Because what I've learned is and in certain seasons, you can either whatever's added to your plate, you can um devote so much time to that, and your family gets less be left behind, especially in ministry.

Like you never want your kids like resenting ministry because you have things to do.

So it's like, how do I prioritize my family?

How do I prioritize these things that God has placed in my lap?

So what I'm doing now is are the things that are on my calendar, is it something that's making me feel guilty if I say no to not doing this?

Uh, we get invited to so many different things.

And I want to be at all of them.

And I realized before when I was trying to keep up with that pace, it was so hard to keep up with that I started creating boundaries and saying no.

But it still made me feel guilty because I wanted to do it.

A A, I wanted to do it, and B it's like this is a good thing.

Like this is gonna be fun, this is gonna be a good experience.

And realizing that the emotional capacity that I had at afterwards and physical capacity that I had was starting to be non-existent and I was heading towards burnout.

So what I'm doing now is is this a thing?

What I'm evaluating now is am I doing this because I'm gonna feel guilty?

Am I doing this because I'm managing somebody else's emotions?

They're gonna be upset with me if I don't do it or I say no.

Um and as well as the pressure that I put on myself being in this role of responsibility for the church that he's um this is God's church and the role that he's allowing me to take part in for people.

Right.

And also the pressure of wanting to please your heavenly father.

You have all these different pressures that you're going through.

So it's like, what part of this is the emotional space or trauma trauma that I'm holding on to and it's impacting the way that I'm either taking on so much more because of the guilt part of it or the people part of it, as well as um wanting to do it just in general because I love people.

Yeah.

So I'm balancing that out.

You could probably answer it a little better for me.

No, I think that's I think that's practical and it's real because you know, time is it's finite.

We all have the same amount of time, and depending on what our days and rhythms and responsibilities look like, and it can it can be very challenging.

So I I really do empathize with folks.

Um, and and I and my mind goes to, you know, I I don't mean to think only about families because I realize that it can express itself in other ways, but you know, nature in that season of life, young kids and just trying to genuinely figure out, like, you know, so we're in a different season of life, but our responsibilities don't seem like they've gotten less.

No as our children have gotten older, it certainly seems like it's gotten even more weighty.

But I I think for us, and I think you hit on a lot of things I was going to hit on, so thank you for taking all of my insight.

Oh but I but I'll say that it's it's certainly um a matter of like you don't find margin, you make it.

And and it's it's genuinely auditing your your yeses and prioritizing prioritizing and and and and reordering things.

So I I I read something where Warren Buffett said you need to take a list of your top 20 things and then chop it down to five because those are your priorities.

Because if you don't, you will either do 20 terribly and you will never really give the energy to the five that really do that really are your priority.

So in the season of life that we're in, as Megan mentioned, going back to school and so many other things going on, I'm constantly reevaluating what are the top five?

And that's doesn't mean that the other 15 aren't important.

It doesn't mean they don't get addressed, but it does mean um if I do 20 things and I have no margin, then they won't be done well.

But if I can have these five things, this is my this is my theme music for this season.

These five things, this is all I'm focusing on, everything else is bonus, but if I could do these things well, um, and five is not literal, um, but if these are the things that I'm that I can lean into, then I can create the margin that I need to be able to have that interruptibility without it being like a crisis.

Yeah, and are you are you responding in a way that's antithetical to maybe a way that you saw it done previously?

And so that's like your well, this person did it that way, I hated that, so this is how I'm gonna respond to it.

Yeah.

Are you trying to meet an unset expectation?

Like there's so many different things that could be lying under the surface, like you mentioned, as opposed to no, like what what are what's required of me?

What do I need to be doing?

And what's what's God placed in front of me that that He wants me to be doing, right?

Yeah.

And I think too, there's another side to the coin where people feel like um if I don't have my calendar full and I don't have all these boxes checked off, then I'm lazy or I'm not productive, or I'm not, you know, whatever that looks like for people, uh that's another side of I'm doing this because either I want to keep busy because that makes me feel productive.

So it's like looking internally to see actually where is this coming from with this uh schedule.

And I've also heard like, man, don't fill your calendar up to 100%, like do about 70 or 80%.

So when these interruptions come into your life, you can then um prioritize those things that maybe it's your child is sick instead of you saying, like, oh man, I got these things to do at work.

Uh, I'm gonna get somebody else to delegate it.

Cause imagine getting into that rut of I'll delegate it to someone else, and then your kid getting older and said you were never available for me um emotionally or when I had needs because you prioritized your work and your schedule over my needs.

So I think there's the balance of the schedule where it's like just make sure you're you're you're you're not putting all your eggs in one basket, you're trying to give the adequate percentages to the things that come your way and being flexible when it does change.

Yeah.

One of the things I'll say, because I think like this subject is such it's real.

You know what I mean?

I think it's real for us, it's real for you, it's real for people that are watching.

Um, but I recall kind of to your point about like the calendar being so full.

Um, I remember when you were in the medical field, but also even when I've tried to get appointments at my doctor's office, the conversation, um, at least one of the ones I had was like, okay, um, our schedule is full for these type of appointments, but we do have margin for sick visits.

So that means that they ran their business in such a way where they have their doctors, they have the people that are available, and they have their scheduled ones, but they also know, but we know that there's going to be people that's gonna get sick.

So we have to leave margin in our schedule to accommodate for that, yeah, because otherwise nobody would ever get in.

And I just thought that that was such a cool thing when I heard them say, like, hey, we we keep margin for sick visits because yeah, sickness is never convenient.

Yeah, for sure.

And you know, I think uh they pulled that from Jesus' playbook too, right?

You know, yeah.

Uh you mentioned it a little bit earlier where a lot of the amazing things that we witness, the miracles even that Jesus performed, but they happen to and fro, or they happen with something that seems out of left field, right?

Um what's an what's an example of that in in the scriptures, maybe that comes to mind to you and what was the outcome?

So I the most obvious one is um when when Jesus is so there's so many of them, I'll say this broadly.

There's so many of them where Jesus is on his way somewhere.

So that oh, and he was on his way to Jerusalem and he came across the ten lepers.

Like that wasn't his that wasn't his mission.

I say that in air quotes, but but nonetheless, that's what happened.

Hey, I have to go through Samaria, and oh, there happens to be a woman at the well there.

That wasn't part of it.

So so many of the miracles, but I think the most obvious one that kind of you feel the pressure um is is the one with Jairus' daughter and the and the woman with the issue of blood.

Because I think in real time, that probably is a little bit more conducive to what it may feel like to us practically.

While he was literally on his way somewhere with the crowd, this guy comes like, hey, my my daughter is is sick.

I need you to come right now.

Like I need you right now.

Let's this need your attention.

Cool, I'm with you.

Let's turn around, let's start working that way.

Then a woman pressing through the crowd, oh, there's Jesus.

I this is my moment.

Just touch the hem of his garment and he stops and he deals with that in the moment.

Now, if I'm in J.

Iris's camp, I'm like, bro, you gotta wait your turn.

Yeah.

Like, what are you doing?

Like, like you've had this for 12 years.

You'll be okay for another 12, 15 minutes.

Like let him let him get to where he got to go.

But the fact that Jesus had the grace, the empathy, the capacity for it, just shows you like his life was one that he lived with like this sense of calling, burden, urgency, but not panic.

So, yes, he responded to their urgency, but there was no panic, and so he was able to pivot and meet a need in the moment as well as meet the need there.

So I think naturally that takes being in step with the spirit to be able to discern those moments.

But I think that practically um is just a beautiful example.

And and and genuinely, the many times that the disciples would come to Jesus and say, like, hey, they they want you to come down here, and and the amount of times Jesus, like, cool, I'm gonna go over here and pray.

Like he just he he just kept this rhythm of knowing his assignment, making sure he protected his communion.

Like these were things that were really important when they were when the disciples were trying to row to get on the other side.

He's up there praying, like he's he's intentionally saying, like, okay, this is important, but this is important.

And so he lived a life where margins were just a part of his rhythms.

Yeah.

That could be weaponized too, right?

Like we could abuse that and well, I'm spending my time with Jesus.

Yeah, for sure.

I'm sorry I can't get to that report that was in three weeks ago.

So you understand my heart though.

But I still want to keep my job.

Is that okay with you?

Absolutely.

We need to have the disclaimer.

Listen, um, you have to apply this to your life in the ways that make sense and that fits for you 1,000%.

But I think that's the that's the beautiful, and I think the challenging thing with our faith is that posture determines definition.

Yeah.

Because you could do the same thing with the wrong posture and it's weaponized and it's terrible.

Yeah.

You could also do it with the right posture and it's so impactful and life-giving.

Yeah.

And I think even with the right posture, you think about the scripture that talks about be not weary and doing good and use that and go to the extreme too.

And then you're lacking boundaries.

So it's like, what is the healthy margin?

When I was sitting here, I thought about, man, have I prayed in the morning?

Like, God, regulate my day, give me margin to be able to do the things you're calling me to do.

Um, organize my schedule in a way that uh you'll allow me to get through it, but that will create balance.

And, you know, I didn't think about it in this moment, like, yeah, we can ask God at the beginning of our day before we start it.

Hey, I'm praying over my schedule today.

Order my steps.

Yeah.

Yes.

Something so simple.

I was like, I don't do that.

And I was I was talking to somebody this morning, like, even an opportunity for intervention doesn't necessarily mean it's your opportunity.

Like being something being brought to you could mean you saying, like, oh, I know the perfect person who can answer this question.

Oh, I know so-and-so who actually is better at this than I am.

Let me connect you with that person.

I was so I was hoping that indirectly we would we would get there because I think a cr a a huge part for all of us is we have to discern our yeses.

Yeah.

And um, and I'm a firm believer that um and and I was literally just talking to Megan about this uh a couple of days ago, but there's a there's a tension, and this is a safe space for us online for everybody.

Like there's a there's a unique space to be in where um you're entrusted with speaking the word of God to people.

You're entrusted to be um a a confidant and sit with people.

And and and in all honesty, man, like I I don't think I'm anything special.

And and you shouldn't.

Like, you know, I'm just a a dude who's just trying my best to serve God and serve God's people to the best of my ability.

Um and and we're we're all working on it every day.

So I think where that has helped me in this present season is so I I have a hard time believing that I'm the solution for somebody.

Like, so when things come to me, I'm genuinely trying my best to say, God, is this my assignment?

Because if it's not me, then it's somebody else.

So I I try I try my best.

I try my best to try not to just say, yes, I have to do it.

It's it's on me because I'm the solution and I have to be the guy that that handles it all.

But I I have to trust that I need to say yes to the things that God's calling me to say yes to, but every opportunity doesn't mean that I'm the solution.

I could simply be a conduit um of connecting people or whatever that looks like.

So for me, that's just a just an honest spot of where I'm at, where I genuinely try to say, like God, like, is this my assignment?

And if it is, then I want to I want to lean into it and I'm gonna do it graciously.

I want to do it the way that honors you and that genuinely helps the person.

If it's not my assignment, help me to be with them in the moment, but help them take the next step or connect them with the person that can help them.

I heard somebody say along those same lines when somebody was asking, like, hey, I need to meet with you, I need to meet, you know, I need to talk to you, I need, and the guy goes, So what I've started saying is like, hey, do you need me or do you need help?

Do you need me or do you need help?

Because yeah, I could do this really well, but I'm not very good at what you're asking me to do.

So like if you need help, then let me let me get you some good help.

Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Jesus was a master too at being able to say, or being able to wanting to empower other people, you know, like he sent the disciples out, like, here's what you're gonna do.

Don't take this, don't take that.

I'm gonna give you exactly what you need.

Even with the fish and loaves, like originally he goes, Well, you guys need to feed these people.

Yeah, what are you talking about?

Yeah, yeah.

What do you what do you mean?

And so I think yes, the miracle came out of that, but the invitation was like, how can you think through this in not only a practical way, but in a spiritual way?

Like, what can you find that can be put in my hands to be able to do something incredible with?

So that's good.

For people who are like myself, very um sometimes admittedly slaves to our schedules, right?

What can we do?

What can we do to make time for interruption?

Other, you know, you you mentioned a little bit like making the margin, and and and I understand the steps of that, but more so in a mindset or or a posture-oriented response to this question, like what do I need to be considering?

Okay.

I want to this is gonna be a um a Dwayne Wade and LeBron moment.

Remember the one where he throws it up and he's like in the screen, and then there's a dunk in the background.

I'm gonna throw it up and Megan can dunk this.

I'll put you on the spot though.

Oh, wow.

So I hope that you prayed this morning and that you're ready.

Um, so here's me lobbing it up.

A lot of times when we are are slaves to our calendar, it's because we find safety in what we can control and what we know.

So here's the the throw out for Megan.

So I think it requires us first, because we're talking about mindsets, let's name the wound that I have experienced that made me feel the lack of that made me feel out of control.

Feel like there's a specific thing that has happened or has you've experienced that then said the adverse to that is that I need to have this measured out.

And and so I think for me it's it's let's identify what the wound is so that we can redeem it.

Yeah, I think that wound could be guilt, disappointment, it could be things falling through the cracks and um the effects of that um either impacted someone else or it impacted the way that you showed up in that role.

Or or even the person.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Because I think what you'll often find is, you know, when you sit with people, whether it be, you know, in conversations, um therapeutically or whatever, when you begin to kind of really get into the nuts and bolts of people's origin stories and the way that they're wired.

One, God may have just wired people to be a certain way.

Then on the other side of it, there could there could be that measure of like, I experience being let down, I experience um, I experience people not following through, I experience these things.

So the way that I counteract that is I have these moments scheduled and I'm going to be a person who doesn't let people down, I'm gonna be a person who shows up.

That's very admirable.

And it's I think it's very beautiful.

But the other side of that becomes if we're so if we're so structured in this way, then when other needs come up that needs our attention as well, it can create a crisis.

So I think it still comes back to let's evaluate the the safety that we lost and the safety that we find in the schedule, and let's find the middle ground of let's redeem it.

What happened then, God's grace is with me, he's healed that.

What's happening now is I'm not that.

So what happened to me does not define me.

Um, and now I can find my own rhythm through that.

And so I'm going to do my best to yes, my personality, temperament, let's have this schedule.

Um, but let's give it some breathing room.

I would say practically um something that um I I need to do a better job at is trying to minimize back to back to back meetings.

And what I mean by that, my schedule may require me to have several meetings in a row, but giving myself even breathing room between meetings.

So sometimes it can even be 15 minutes.

Yeah.

But what that does, it just gives you the room that if you do need to respond to a text message or a phone call real quick, you that's a practical way that I'm just giving myself margin.

So I do have my schedule.

Like I have a I have a pretty it's I won't say rigid, but I have a rhythm that I function with.

Um, but I try to my best to make sure that it's it's a rhythm that can be interrupted to the best of my ability.

Sometimes it's, you know, I get cranky, but um Yeah, I think that too, um you figure out what is your non-negotiable um commitment for that day.

You know, like this is what I have to do today, like this is on my list.

And then you prioritize the other things, things that are like your standard things on your schedule for that day, or family commitments and stuff.

Uh because you want you, like I said, you can do all the great things in the world, but leave your family behind.

And that's something that you you have to be intentional about.

And then prioritizing a little bit of fun in there because I think that margin has to be okay, maybe I watch this TV show, maybe it's I go sit out on my back porch and read a book.

Like I think that's so important because you can't do what you do if all you're doing is work.

Absolutely.

So I think creating that fillers.

Yes.

Find those things that's gonna fill you up.

Um, and instead of everything being the thing that's gonna emotionally drain you, because it can lead to compassion fatigue when you're doing everything for everybody else, you end up suffering the consequence of being emotionally and physically drained.

Yes.

And the last thing I'll say, and this is kind of like a different lane, um, it may require us to invite other people into the solution.

So what I mean by that is like if my plate is full and and there are certainly things that I try my best to look at things, at least with my my current workflow, I look at things through the lens of like, okay, it's not a matter of can I do it.

I look at things through the filter of, am I the only one who can do this?

So that becomes the first thing that I think about.

So yes, we have jobs.

All of us here have jobs and functions and that are very practical to our to our roles.

We're also a very collaborative staff.

We we we chip in where needed.

So I look at things through the lens, okay, like where what are the things that are unique to me?

So I guess I was I don't want to say that only I can do it, things that are unique to me.

I know that primarily um preaching every week is unique to me.

So I make sure that I try my best to create rhythms and protect that that's something that is unique to me when it's my assignment to do it.

So it's not easy for me to delegate that.

So if I have other things that are coming my way, those become the opportunities to invite other folks in, like, hey, can you help me with this?

I was supposed to do this, I just couldn't get to it because I still have this thing is unique to me.

I I'm preaching this Sunday.

So I find ways, even when it's things that could be my role, but it's not my time, I may invite other people into it as well.

And I think that's an area that sometimes we can struggle with.

It's it's it's my responsibility.

So I have to carry it all on my own and learning how to invite others in it, even if I'm called to it.

But I may need to invite other hands to help just because why am I lifting a refrigerator by myself?

I agree.

I do feel like um you need to staff to your weakness sometimes, uh, even with your schedule, because sometimes things that you're not as strong in will take so much more of your time than something that you're good at that be is natural for you that you can make more progress in.

Case in point, like with social media when it comes to sisterhood.

I have people who can help out in that area as far as, you know, engaging in stuff.

And I just talked to Keith about this last night.

I was like, but just because it's my weakness doesn't mean that I I can't get better in it, even if it's not my thing.

So that's something that I'm currently working on.

Um, is how do I, I have this love-hate relationship with social media and texting.

I would rather talk to somebody on the phone or call them.

And then the people who are text messagers is like, but why are you calling me?

Why are you calling me?

But um, I was like, how do I strengthen in this area and still delegate when needed so that it doesn't require so much more effort or take so much out of time out of my day that I feel like I'm not accomplishing a lot of things.

Yeah, that's good.

There are helpers out there, natural helpers, right?

People who are like, no, give me all of the needs, like interrupt me as much as possible.

Um and uh let me take care of everything.

But those people are people as well.

Yeah.

And so let's help the helpers a little bit.

Like, yeah, how does someone identify, like, you know what?

I can't help you right now because I myself am in need of help.

And yeah, let's let's encourage those folks right here, right now.

Because I mean, think about Jesus, the ultimate helper, like, yeah, healed, risen, healed, you're good, saved.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean?

But again, that wasn't the priority of the mission.

The mission was like, let's send the spirit to come empower the believers to do and they can carry it on.

Man, I I feel like um everything comes back to scripture and and how how does it how does it express itself through the ministry life of of Christ and and so forth, and so um it's hard to wrap our minds around it, but but let's brace ourselves.

When Jesus was doing his earthly ministry, everyone didn't get healed.

Like there were towns he left.

And and you know, in our 21st century, because my mind likes to read, like, people are like, Man, like yeah, I'm glad he did it for you.

I guess he doesn't care about me.

Like, it's so easy to kind of like if we were to overly personify it in that way, but we see that the that Jesus gives us a model of having this ability to be available, but yet he still functioned with um boundaries and restraint.

So I think that's part one is recognizing that if Jesus is a finite being who we see was tired, who we see had emotions, who we see um demonstrated some of the same things that we do, um I certainly believe that we're in good company when we get to a place where we recognize that hey, there's limitations.

So recognize that you're limited.

The second thing um I would say is em embrace the fact that while we are limited, there's also people that that God has called and commissioned to be solutions to problems that that that we ourselves are not the ones that are commissioned to do it or we're not the end all be all.

So I think it comes back to what I was saying earlier is recognizing that that there that God has equipped other people um to to step into these spaces.

And so for me it it starts with just recognizing that that we're all finite.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think um put on my therapy hat.

I love to ask questions.

So if I see someone doing a whole lot of things, um, I love to have conversations and I love to ask questions that are non-invasive or trying to get them to a point, but I want to ask them.

You know, like, hey, like, man, you help so many people out.

Like, what does that do for you?

You know, you get to that part and man, um, I I believe that's a strength that God has wired you to have.

Like, what do you do for um how do you take care of yourself during this process of caring for others?

You allow them that to see, man, you know what?

I don't I don't actually do a lot of things for myself.

I typically I I feel called to do this.

And yet that's a place that I can speak into.

But asking the questions allows people to face like, why do you do this?

How are you taking care of yourself?

Hey, you know, like I know you're really busy.

How do you care for your family during all of this?

And it allows them to see, man, I might have some gaps in there.

Maybe I need to strengthen some areas.

And if it allows me, like if there's a space for me to speak into it, I will.

If not, there's a space that I pray into.

Cause I don't believe that everything you see is for you to call out in someone.

Sometimes it's not the right time.

Yeah.

I'll I'll say to that, because you you did just jarg my memory.

Um it's it's also recognizing that sometimes the the continuation of that is my my desire to help people, as I say often, is connected to at times feeling helpless and and and and wanting to be for someone what someone wasn't for me.

I think that that can play a part.

I think the other part of it could be sometimes people are people pleasers.

And and me being a people pleaser is me managing disappointment.

And so I'll I'll step in to try to manage other people's disappointment because likely, um, at some point in my life, um when that wasn't managed well, either things were triangulated onto a person where they were the reason why something fell apart.

So now in an effort to mitigate that, I'll just do everything.

And because if I do everything, then everybody's happy and and now I'm I'm overextending myself, but I'm actually just trying to manage people's feelings so that everybody will feel good so that way I don't have to feel the burden of having to say no and the consequences that maybe I experienced in the past.

There are probably a good amount of I I'm sure there are some ministry leaders, you know, and sometimes we like to hone in on certain groups of people, and I think you guys have brought it up enough to where it's something to talk about.

Probably ministry leaders, maybe even children of ministry leaders, PKs, if you know, you know.

Um what does it look like to do ministry with your family in something that does rec often require a lot of you, but not respond in knee-jerk reactions to things that you may have experienced, whether it be from another leader or maybe even your second generation pastor's kid?

You know what I mean?

So how do you invite your family to be along in the process while not giving them a poor taste of the church and certainly not trying to deter them from walking with Jesus themselves?

What are some rhythms to implement there?

I I think um we probably all have seen and experienced examples of it done poorly for however we want to define it.

I I would say not that we have perfected it because God knows I I wouldn't say that we've we perfected anything, but what I'll say is having been in ministry for years, lived in different cities slash states, bringing them on the journey and not making them feel secondary is critical.

Now, what what I've often seen is you have a model where this is the calling and I'm dragging you along and and and you're you this is my calling.

I'm I'm called to this, and you're in the family, but you understand that you're gonna have to surrender me because God has a greater calling, and and and if you want more, then that's just selfish.

So that's obviously very damaging.

Um so I I think you have that model.

You also have another model where it's we are called as a family, and I think this is really what you'll see when you when you think about um in the old testament when it talks about how do we pass down the wisdom of what God did when he delivered the children of Israel out of Egypt to the generations that's going to be four generations removed.

It was like, hey, this is why we do this because God delivered us with an outstretched arm, and this is why we do this.

Like it was it was passed down into that.

So I feel like through the years we found a way to to bring our family on the journey where it wasn't like this is us, and then hopefully you guys are good.

There may have been seasons where you don't realize that maybe you you you may have done a version of that, certainly seasons where you have conflicting things on a schedule where your kids want to do something, it's like, oh that just doesn't work for like I I get that that's a that's a real tension to manage.

But I feel like for us, we really try our best to to bring them on the journey.

And so here's my example for that.

And then Megan, you may have some thoughts on it.

But when we even when we came here, we um moved here from DC more recently.

Um when we had our assignment in DC, we came here.

So when we came here, it occurred to us that what we were raised with was I was raised in the same home my entire childhood.

Um I went to this the neighborhood schools, we were all connected.

And so when I thought back about, especially with with Caleb our youngest, because the other two were like in college age when we started um here, but I remember saying, like, man, like we moved from Jacksonville, then we moved to DC, then we moved here in those critical middle high school emerging years.

Yeah.

So we were like, okay, like life is good, we have good community, good friends were around, great people, but how do we involve our son into this?

And so the we had the idea, like, hey, like let's let him, let's let him choose.

I say it in an air quote, let's let him choose where we live.

And so as we were working with our realtors and looking at the schools, we were able to reduce it down to two parts of town and the two schools that we felt met the criteria of what we're looking for.

So what we did is like, hey man, you know, our family is called into ministry.

This is something that God wants us, uh, that's He's calling us to do.

Um, but we're partners in this, man.

And these are some of the areas that we believe that God is calling us to move to.

They met the criteria, these things are important.

But we want you to come and like look at these houses with us and come.

And we want you to look at these schools.

Where do you want to go?

And he genuinely we moved to the part of town where he saw the school that he was like, I want to go to that one.

And so I think it doesn't have to be this extremely segregated thing.

That's a that's a real simple example, but just invite them in.

Like we're in this together, like this is what we're this is what we're doing, and I think that's a a part of what kind of helps us, but I think we're still figuring out even with adult kids.

Yeah, I think we went through seasons where that was the case, where ministry was um first.

Um we went through those seasons and it was what was required of us in that season, because different seasons of ministry, it's gonna require more of you, so that means less of you with your family.

But we just do did our best to show up and not um not express the negative sides of it to say, yes, this is hard.

I mean, anything that we're gonna do in life is going to be hard.

But how we continue to show up and how we continue to show them by modeling, yeah, we still show up for Jesus, no matter what ministry brings to you in different seasons, we still show up and we allow them to have space too, because I think for PK kids, a lot of times like, you are showing up for church this Sunday.

This is what we do.

We saw that a lot growing up, and we didn't want to do that on our kids.

So sometimes if they're like, hey, I I'm gonna stay home for church on Sunday, I'm like, what?

That's blasphemy.

And yet we want them to still have their own identity in Christ because what I don't want it to be is your relationship with God is based off of rules.

I want your relationship with God to be something that's authentic and something that's genuine and something where it's not he's penalizing you because you didn't show up for church today on a Sunday.

Um, so we we've tried to allow them to have their own individuality as they've gotten older.

Like when they were younger, yes, you're going to church.

We're all going to church every week.

So we do.

But as they've gotten older, we're allowing them to have that space because we taught them in the ways that they should go.

And we have to believe that God is going to make sure that they won't they won't depart from it.

Yeah.

A lot of that stuff is just image management for the pastor, anyways, right?

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Oh, well, I'm forcing my kid to do this or wear this or go to this.

And that ends up nine times out of ten, usually.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

Just teaching your ways, the teaching your kids the ways of Jesus, the rhythms of Jesus, if you will.

Yeah.

Just trying to what does it look like to be a disciple?

Because you may work at Goldman and Sachs one day.

You know, and it doesn't have to be at the church.

So but where can you how can I disciple my kids to no matter what they do or where they go, whether it's ministry or not?

Like love God.

Love other people.

We got it figured out, solved, right?

That's the message.

Take this, synthesize it into uh very practical steps, and your life is figured out.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

Um, Pastor Megan, thanks for joining us today.

Pastor Keith, as always, thank you.

Yes, and um yeah, we will catch you guys on the next episode of After the Message.

Thanks for listening to After the Message.

If you want to learn more about Celebration Church Orlando, visit our website, celebrationorl.org, or follow us on social media at celebrationorl.