Steven and Carie's Story

That said, I I as I said a minute ago, I'm so excited to share uh this story with you guys.

I have known uh the cranes, and part of why I I I can look at where they sit, like I can just uh you guys are consistent, boom.

Sometimes it's a few seats over, but you all are like there's a few people in the church who who are uh hyper consistent with where they sit from.

And it's like uh Bob Sheldon, Bob, always right there.

Hello, Bob.

Uh the cranes, like you all are are are you're good.

Thank you for that.

It gives me like an anchor.

I need that.

It's like a North Star.

I know who's here.

Um Stephen is obviously I know Stephen more than Carrie.

We've had lunch together many times, and he used to be on my kids team back in the day when I was in the kids area.

You were one of my uh you took the fifth grade boys from me one time and led them.

That was a thank you for the your your service there.

Um great family.

And like I said, this is a story that I think many of us will relate to either personally or we know someone and we're gonna be like, we need to hear their story.

But again, it's a story of of uh reconciliation.

It's a story of restoration and coming together as a as a married couple through faith.

It's a story of God answering really powerful prayers or inconsistent prayers.

So that said, let's listen to Stephen Carey's other story.

Stephen Carey.

Um and Stephen and Cray are a huge part of our church.

Uh, you've helped out on Teams for years.

How long have you been here?

15 years.

15.

So you're almost almost OGs.

Like we're almost as mold, almost as old as the building.

That's awesome.

Um and so I just know that we were just talking, and I know that y'all's story has a a lot to do with like God working in your life in surprising ways.

And uh, Steven, you recently wrote a book about gratitude, and that book about gratitude is like, if I could sum it up, is like gratitude despite suffering.

Is that like a fair explanation?

Um yeah, uh in different words, that's maybe the recognition of hidden blessings in life's challenges, um whether it's um work or relationships or coaching or our church environments or our home environments, there's always sort of these hidden blessings in what we first probably recognize as things that aren't so great.

Yeah.

And so what are some of those things that have not been so great?

My own health challenges growing up.

Um, I was born with spina bifida, and until I was probably 25 or 30, I'd had more surgeries than birthdays.

Um, so that's that has its own sort of string of continuous challenges from the physical reality of just being to the way that people recognize you or treat you, particularly as a child, to your insecurities growing up and uh relationships and you know, finding someone that you hope will love you despite your abnormalities, you know, etc.

Um, and then you know, some of some of them are heavy like that.

My sister unfortunately passed when she was 23 and I was 20, um, which becomes sort of a pivotal um event in my life, um, particularly as it relates to spirituality.

And so I guess my question, you said that the cancer um struggle has informed your perspective on your faith.

Yes.

And so I want to know um, would you tell me about your sister and the story there and um how that has kind of connected to your faith?

Sure.

Um, well, so my sister and I were a little more than two years apart, pretty close growing up.

Um, as I mentioned, you know, my own health challenges growing up, she was the picture of health and beauty and super popular, and I was none of those things growing up.

Um, but even despite all that, she was sort of my best friend, um, constant companion, super supportive, you know, kind of one of my anchors.

Um when she was early 20s, um, she found out that she had malignant melanoma, breast cancer, essentially, um, and um was scared and did not seek treatment as soon as she should have or could have, and um that ended up making a huge difference.

Um she um kind of quickly um went through the process of of being sick, and she passed away when she was 23.

Um, and I was in college and I was off away from home making terrible decisions, and then when she passed, that ended up being the worst thing that's ever happened to me, actually.

Um and um I grew up in the church.

I always sort of felt like I had a normal, healthy, strong relationship with God.

And when that happened, I shut down completely.

I kind of walked away and um went into the wilderness for a long time after that, because how I processed that was that was the thing that I prayed hardest for the longest.

And um I felt like God either didn't hear me, didn't want to hear that prayer, or just decided that the answer was no.

And understandably, I guess to a certain extent, uh my reaction to that was like, okay, fine, I'm gone.

And so I walked away for um what ended up being quite a lot of years.

What did the turnaround and what brought you, you know, back into faith or back into the church if that's what that looks like?

The the answer to your question um is sitting right beside me.

Um it's actually my relationship with my wife that um brought me here specifically, but also in the larger sense is probably pivotal in rescuing that entire relationship between me and God.

Let's start with your faith.

Let me just ask you, how how do you know Jesus?

So my family, um I was I was raised in church in part, um, certainly in early years.

Um and you know, salvation and was it was a big part of early conversation, and um, so I was baptized when I was, I think, about 10, um, and have always sort of known Jesus.

And we were in and out of church.

And um when Stephen and I met, I I wasn't going to church regularly, it wasn't um wasn't a huge part of my life.

Um, but you know, Jesus doesn't leave you.

So um so that he was still there, and I think um after we were married and we were starting to think about kids coming back to church and making sure that we were thinking about that for our children became a a pretty big and important thing for me.

So we started having a lot more conversations about about God and about Jesus and about church than we'd we'd ever had before.

And and I was searching at the time, so I knew about um I knew about Jesus as salvation, but I didn't know about Jesus as relationship.

Um and it had kind of kept me away from church at the time.

So I was also seeking what is what does that look like?

I mean, Jesus was here and and did a lot for us eternally, right?

But I I knew that I had a lot of life to live still and wanted to know what is what is you know, what is the rest of the story and what is Jesus for me while I'm while I'm alive?

So that was kind of the journey I was on at the time.

Were those conversations, like you said, they became more regular?

Was it ever a sticking point as you met?

Like fist shaking at God, was was were you still in that mode when you met Carrie?

Oh, definitely, definitely.

So we probably met um when I so we we just celebrated 21, we're about to celebrate 21 years of marriage.

This is my snap clap for you.

Right?

Um, so we've been here for 15 years and we've been together for almost 25 years.

So there definitely was a number of years um where there was a lot of back and forth.

There there was a lot of non-discussion, there was a lot of don't talk to me about that.

There was a lot of okay, I'll listen to you, I'll listen to you talk about that, um, but I'm not really listening.

There was a lot of um, okay, I'll listen to you talk about that, but I don't really want to go anywhere.

There was a lot of, all right, well, uh if we have to go somewhere, I'll go to make you happy.

And that's a very long process of negotiation.

I I couldn't talk you into um a relationship with God.

I couldn't talk you into your faith.

Um and and we, I think to your question, we worked with avoidance just fine.

I mean, it wasn't really a conversation in our in our dating relationship that we spent a lot of time with.

It really wasn't until we were married and starting to think about a family that that it became more important to me.

And so I started pressing the issue.

And we'd talk about it, and and and thankfully he was willing enough to go to church, right?

We could we could go try out a church, but we'd try it out once or twice, and then we'd argue about it afterwards.

What did I hear?

What did you hear?

And um, and those were not usually the same things.

Um and and then trying to have a you know just an ongoing discussion.

And early on, I was trying to to make the point, right?

This is what we heard.

Did you hear that?

Did you um and you're like preaching again?

I'm preaching again, right?

And he's going, no, thank you.

Um so there were there was a lot of that Sundays after church, and we didn't go every Sunday, but every time we would we would try again, um, it was met with a a lot of I mean tolerance from him, but but not engagement.

I'm a self-proclaimed cynic, which is actually um where uh the book was born out of was um my oldest son Matt calling me out on that and saying, God, why do you always have to be so negative about everything?

And me realizing, yeah, I kind of am that all the time.

It was me um poking holes and whatever it was that we went and experienced.

It was if you didn't have a hole in the preaching, there's a hole in the worship, or there's one of those.

Right.

Yeah, there was always something not right about what we had just experienced.

And I was can I was convinced that there was never going to be a church that checked all of the boxes, and I had a very specific, uh probably impossibly small box that my vision of what I needed from a church was going to fit in, probably because I was trying to create an impossible match so that I didn't have to go.

And so what changed?

So I think a couple of things changed.

Um I would say from a relationship perspective, we were at the point.

So I was at the point of let's take a break.

I think we were both at the point of let's let's just take a break from this.

Um and I think I was also at a point of um I can't I can't make him feel a certain way, think a certain way.

Um this is, you know, it's just it's beyond my control, because it was, right?

Um and so we had we had almost decided that's where we were, and got a postcard.

I think it was right before Easter, and we couldn't go the particular Sunday, um, but got a postcard in the mail um from his hands church that I think says something about all-out jeans wearing.

I think you you have it.

Um but sounded completely different from any church that we had tried.

And so I showed it to Stephen and said, This seems like it might be kind of interesting.

This is that box you were talking about.

That's right, that's right.

Um and so we said, well, we can't go this Sunday, but but maybe we'll go check it out.

Um and so a couple of weeks later, we did.

Um What did the postcard say?

I didn't know you have it.

Yeah, so this actually makes an appearance in my book because it's it's so pivotal in my life.

And so the and anybody who's been here long enough may have actually seen one of these or something.

I think I have one.

I should have I think I have one in my desk, just like I'm in an old one.

So this postcard says a non-religious rock music, wear your jeans, bring in your coffee, all out worship to God, kind of place where you can be yourself and know that you are loved.

Hishandschurch.com.

Boom.

And so that's what changed.

So when that postcard arrived at our house, it literally was she didn't say it, but she kind of didn't have to say it because she showed it to me, and I'm sitting there going, Oh, crud.

Check, check, check, crud.

We're going to this place.

And I still didn't have like, you know, I still wasn't like, okay, great, this is fantastic.

I was like, well, I can argue that.

Yeah, and that didn't like kick off your like, oh, this postcard, I'm gonna go pray.

And it it was this is the first step in.

Right.

And so when when you guys got here, I guess we started this conversation by saying you've been here for 15 years, but I imagine that this was a good fit for y'all.

Or I hope it was.

Well, the the other thing that was happening, so my box was so small and our upbringings were so different that what we were looking for was something that really worked for both of us.

And so, whereas she was um raised in the more traditional Southern Baptist tradition, I I came from a non-denominal, non-denominational church that was um very practical application of biblical knowledge or scripture, um, and they were very different.

And so when we got here, it was sort of indescribably that sweet spot between the two.

I'm not finding a problem with this, which was my original problem, was I can't find the problem, right?

And so when we I think when we left, um that first car ride home was was really sort of that conversation was I I don't have any problems with this, which I think for you was probably a home run.

Right.

Yeah, and I think we got in the car and looked at each other and said, I think we found our church.

And you also um you've talked about how uh in the beginning, um even even as we would come here and I would encounter things, I I would still be cynical and I would still ask questions, but then you noticed that, well, the next week or two weeks later, the answer to my question or the answer to my objection magically, magically appears, you know, in Steve's message.

Um we were still having those conversations, right?

It wasn't like everything magically changed.

Um, but as as Stephen questioned, we would have conversations, they would be frustrating, and then we'd go to church.

And and um so I as an observer in all of this, I mean, not that I wasn't having my own, you know, relationship and growth too, but as an observer in his journey, I could see over and over again God just making a little nudge.

Here's another little nudge.

At first, he would not go and and do the Lord's Supper.

And okay, you know, he need he needs to find that in his own time and space, and I didn't know if he ever would.

Um and we were probably I don't know, several months in, and he just got up and went one one Sunday, and and that was I think one of the first times that I felt like okay, I I he's he's listening.

All of this is not just he's going here for my benefit, but starting to to feel differently, to all of that nudging is starting to really soak in.

Yeah, and she was doing some nudging of her own too.

That's what I was gonna ask is like what was the role you're playing?

You say you were an observer, and I know from knowing y'all that it your role was probably a lot bigger than just being an observer.

You're seeing the change happen, but you're also what what role were you playing in that season?

Um I think I was being an encourager in terms of our consistency.

Like we we were gonna do that on a regular basis.

Um, I was still starting some of the conversations.

I think we together decided, um, I might have pushed it, to do a small group, um, which was probably outside of both of our our comfort zones, but pushed the idea of well, if we're gonna be a part of a church, we're not just gonna show up and go home, and that's gonna be the end of it.

And I and I think that helped put some other people and other voices around us to to help um to help in our our growth.

Um it was pretty quickly after we started coming, there was the formation of small groups.

Um, just happened to be where we were in the calendar.

And um she was immediately interested in that.

She said, Let's join a small group.

And my initial reaction to that is I I'm already coming here, and now you want me to do this, and then so there's a there's a series of steps in the journey which all sort of go like that.

I'm already doing this, and now you want me to do more, and now you want me to do more.

And I think that's the answer to that is always yes, you know, and that's what God wants us to do too, right?

Um, but out of those nudgings, so we started a small group, we started going to a small group with a group of families here who are all um very legacy families in this church as well, and are still around.

Yes, a lot of them are.

Most of them are, and some of them in leadership.

And um, we are um we have been through our entire children's lives with that group of families.

It started as a group of families with small children, and so our kids who are now high school students have grown up in a community, a family of their own, and that group is still pivotal in our lives and the relationships that have come out of that.

And I know that the the church piece was a big piece that was missing, um, but the the faith stuff hasn't come back around.

So were you still struggling?

Were you still like obviously now you seem more open to processing, but especially when it comes to what happened with Kim and your prayer life concerning that, what um is that still there?

Are you still processing that, or did something change it?

I think we're all processing that constantly.

I think relationships are in constant process and we're constantly growing and evolving, and our understandings probably change as we go through.

Um but yes, uh I think all of that is is true.

Um the other thing that I that I I know is true is that we all hear in different ways.

Um and part of my frustration was that when I pray, I don't seem to hear.

Um I I either don't get the answer that I'm looking for or I don't really hear much, um, which is not to say that I don't hear in different ways.

Um I I am much more impacted by worship uh than I am by prayer for whatever reason.

I truly feel spirit in moving in that way often.

Um much, much, much less so in prayer.

Um what I've learned is um Carrie hears in very different ways.

How do you hear Carrie?

Um it depends.

Sometimes it's in pictures, sometimes it's in whispers, sometimes it's in affirmations, um sometimes it's in the word.

It just depends, I think, on on what the what the situation is.

What I learned from that though is that when she hears from God, it's right, and the answer to that is yes.

That and that hasn't always been my understanding.

My initial understanding was I don't want to do that.

I don't appreciate that.

I don't that that's not I I'm not hearing that, so why am I doing that?

And now, whether it's um we need to go to church or we need to be involved in church or we need to volunteer at church or we need to set aside a God fund that we fund every month so that when God tells us what we're supposed to do with that money, we have available funds to help.

The answer to all of that is just yes, because time time after time after time, what I've been shown is that she hears things that I don't hear, and they're always godly and they're always right.

And so you've seen that saying yes has played out in the way that would bless others, it'd bless your family, like because you you've you seem like you came from the situation with Kim, and that was a big no.

Like that no hurt, or you perceived it as a no.

And then through this relationship with Carrie, you've seen that saying yes to God.

God is valuable.

I guess I'm I'm trying to see that I'm trying to connect the dots of like what what happened for your personal relationship with God.

It seems like you have had some closure or healing, maybe is the word, from that experience with Kim.

And so I just want to know what that that looks like.

So yes, I think that there is some closure there, and there's some there's a lot of healing there.

Um a lot of that is time.

Um and you know, they say that time heals all wounds, and that's true to a certain extent.

Um, but time and perspective and um and seeing other people, uh other people's experiences, uh realizing that you're not alone in things.

Um with cancer.

With everything.

Okay.

That's that's everything.

But that plays out specifically as it relates to cancer as well.

Um so um I I tell a couple of different stories in the book about cancer, and the first several of them all end terribly.

You know, it's all the stories of um me losing people to cancer who are super important to me, and me praying specifically for them to be healed, and the that not being answered, to the extent that in one instance I stopped praying.

I said, you know, okay, well, clearly you're not hearing me, and or you're not gonna give me this, so I'm not even gonna ask.

And that was awful.

You know, I I have regrets about that, but it's part of my learning process as well.

Um, but eventually um I come across another um person who is actually uh in this church family as well, who um we're in another small group with um more recently, or I guess we're still current.

Um but um there was um a cancer story there as well.

And that was a miraculously different experience.

That was um a group of people who are so strong in their faith and so certain that uh of those outcomes that they weren't even asking, they were just accepting the gift of healing before it was given, which was sort of revolutionary to me.

Um and not surprisingly, that's the way that that went.

And so finally, there's there's a happy ending, yeah, you know, to to that chapter, to that story, and you can see how people in community surrounded by and joined together in their assurance that God is taking care of that creates a different outcome.

Yeah, it's almost like you were taking the role of the observer there, like seeing all these people with a faith that seems stronger than yours praying for healing in a way that you've never seen it prayed for.

Has that shaped your prayer life in terms of how you pray for things now?

Um yeah, I think so.

Um there's so part of the realization that I came to is that um spend a lot of time, and I'm probably not alone in this, but I spend a lot of time, or I did previously spend much more time focused on all of the all of the prayers that went unanswered, all the things that I may have asked for, may have wanted that didn't go the way that I wanted.

Um without recognizing all the blessings that were there, all the things that you either prayed for in passing or maybe didn't even know that you were praying for that came to you, that were given to you, that you were blessed by.

Um, and so I I think that plays out for a lot of people that we're quick to focus on the prayers that aren't answered, and we might not see all the ones that are answered.

Right, or even just the blessings, like I like you said, the things you either weren't praying for or didn't know you were praying for, but was kind of simmering under the surface, but God's been blessing you the whole way.

Right.

And and I'm probably not um I'm I'm much quicker to be thankful, to to start with thank you for these blessings, thank you for these wonderful things that are in my life, and oh, by the way, if you could help with this, that would be great, as opposed to why won't you do this for me, you know, which is a very different prayer practice.

But I also think the process of um of writing the book, which is I I think you I think you were writing a book, but I think you were having you were having a conversation with God, um, more importantly than than writing a book.

And and there were there were some chapters that I I mean you started with, I think some of the stuff that that you were really excited about, the fun stuff to write about, um, and and wanted to get those on paper because those are those are good things that you can see and and also really struggled through some of the hard ones.

And I think there's some, you know, whether you're you're putting it on paper for a book or you're praying it in your heart, you were sorting through and processing with God all of those things that that you set out to put in the book.

And the one about your health, you were gonna publish a book without it because you didn't want to have that conversation with God.

And that one in particular, I think, is is divinely inspired because you didn't know what you could appreciate about that, couldn't figure out how to write it because that you know you didn't find anything appreciable, and then went for a walk and wrote a chapter because God told you what was appreciable in that.

Um I don't know if you knew where you were praying or not in the moment, but um, but I think that year of conversation with God has made a a really huge difference in the way that I see your relationship with God.

You said that she hears the Lord different, you hear the Lord different.

Seeing the the writing of the book as a an act of processing that with the Lord and seeing the blessings, seeing what you couldn't appreciate, what you couldn't handle, and seeing how he kind of worked all the way through, that's really cool.

Carrie, I have another question for you.

Is like for someone who's in a similar position that you were in, where their significant other is not on the same page about the important stuff or the core stuff, the faith stuff, what would you what advice would you give to that person?

Um I think maybe a couple of things.

Uh well, so in my own experience, I I think I have I have a tendency to if there's something that I that I see needs to be fixed, I go and fix it, right?

Um and so I had to learn that I I can't fix somebody else's relationship with with God.

You probably can't totally fix somebody's relationship with anybody, but I couldn't fix his relationship with God.

But what I could do was pray for him.

I could be patient, um, I could I could notice God moving and and and call it out.

So I I think the advice that I would have is not to forget that God is way bigger than than we are and has uh has a plan and a purpose and God chases after us.

And and us chasing ourselves only gets you so far.

But God chasing us after us is is huge, and if we can just love each other through that and look for it, um God's faithful.

Stephen, a similar question is for those struggling with big unanswered prayers or even big wounds, what would you say?

I don't want to suggest that any of that is easy because it's not.

It's it's very hard.

And time does help, um, but relationships are so important.

Um relationships with other people, um, the understanding that you're whatever it is that you're facing, it's pretty likely, it may be that somebody hasn't had the exact same experience that you have, um, but there are others who have had similar experiences.

Um and listening and talking and being in fellowship and community with other people is huge.

But um recognizing relationship with God and that it is a relationship, and seeing it that way, pursuing it that way, and embracing it that way makes a huge difference than just sort of a transactional, I go to church to get something or I go somewhere to give something sort of thing.

The the constant sort of listening and talking that that we do as people with each other to build relationships, that's I think what we're meant to, how we're meant to exist with God as well.

And we've been blessed constantly over the many years that we've been here through those plug-ins of relationship, whether it is that first small group that we joined or um years ago working with Christmas angels or the the work that Carrie does um in the nursery or that I do with the junior high.

I mean, it's all relationships.

All of that is built on the power of relationships and coming together to do something good.

One thing I know you did want to mention was that that postcard you found out later that the postcard from his hands was not an accident.

Yeah, explain that.

Right.

So um I a couple of years ago when I knew that um I was uh starting to think about this book, and you know, I had begun the process, um, I knew that I wanted to talk about that, and I went to somebody on staff here and said, Hey, um, can can I get a copy of one of those postcards that was sent out way back, you know, many years ago?

And they said, We'll have to find that, but yeah, I think so.

And in the process of that conversation, they said, Where do you live?

And so I said, Well, at the time we lived about 20 miles from here.

I told them where we lived, and they said, We didn't send any of those postcards to anywhere near your house.

He said, I would the person I was talking to said, I was on the team that you know was involved in sending them, and I know for a fact we didn't send any of them even to your zip code.

And so, and none of our neighbors got one.

No one we knew at the time ever got one.

They weren't sent anywhere near us purposefully.

Well, not by human purpose.

That literally was God making a house call.

That literally was God sending a note to me saying, here, come on back.

Yeah.

So God loves junk mail, you know.

God loves us and he loves people.

Uh Stephen Carey, thank you very much for sharing your story and and for just opening yourselves up in that way.

Um a couple just a couple tidbits from that, and and we're gonna wrap up.

Number one, if you're a single man, find a woman who prays.

I'm serious about that.

Like a quick show of hands, men who have like a spouse who hears from God more clearly than you do.

Can we just see your hands?

That that is not an uncommon story.

All right.

I actually do believe that some of the people I've known that just hear the clearest from God happen to be women.

And I don't know why.

But that's a that's like a thing.

And so, like, ladies, we need you like hear from the Lord and tell us things.

Like, we need that.

Um yeah, we clap for that for sure.

We do.

Something else as we wrap up, just uh again with Stephen that I really appreciate, and as I watch that, it even reminds me um you are someone who is willing to wrestle with God.

And that's really rare and really powerful because it's so easy for us in life to be people who either, you know, when things are good, we're we're cool with God.

When things are bad, we we run the other way.

But to have a real relationship with God, you have to wrestle.

Like you gotta you gotta wrestle with him because things aren't gonna go the way you always want them to, and you're gonna have confusion.

But the cool thing about uh about Stephen is that he's one of those people that even in the wrestling, uh-huh, even when he doesn't fully get it or he's not there, he's okay with the fact that there's tension.

And to have a real relationship with God, there's going to be tension.

And so be a wrestler.

And that's something Stephen, I really appreciate about you.

It really inspires me.

So keep wrestling, man.

That's awesome.

Um well, listen, we're gonna wrap up.

I'm gonna pray.

I'm so grateful that we got to hear their story.

Remember, uh, a couple weeks from now, we'll be back together again and going through Laney's story.

It's gonna be really, really powerful.

Um, and again, it's that line between never condone, never condone, it's gonna be a really good conversation for her.

Um today, as we wrap up, we do have a newcomer gathering in the the classroom right in the main hallway.

And also, if you're in the second half of life, um, and you know, like that kind of retirement uh empty nester stage, right?

That's a whole different stage of life than like than a lot of people are in.

And it has unique opportunities and challenges and all that kind of stuff.

We have an awesome group here at the church called the second half, and they have a gathering today over in the coffee shop.

There's food you can hang out, eat, get to know people, it's gonna be a blast.

And so that's happening right now as well.

So, newcomers, second half for the for everybody though, have an amazing week.

Have an incredible week of rest next week, and we will see you guys soon.

Let's pray for our father.

Thank you so much for this day.

Thank you so much for this church.

Thank you, God, for Stephen and Carrie, uh, for being part of our family, for being willing to share their story.

Thank you, Lord, for sending that postcard to them 15, whatever years ago, um, because that they're a gift to us, and we're really grateful for them.

Lord, I pray that you just be with everyone this week.

Bless us, speak to us, help us be sensitive to all that you you're saying to us, help us hear from you.

Lord, help us be people who pray.

Um, God, thank you so much for the fact that as we pray, you do listen even when it feels like you don't sometimes.

And help us, like Stephen said, help us to recognize those prayers that you have answered just as readily as we recognize the ones maybe you haven't.

We pray this in your name of Jesus.

Amen.