When Our Convictions Differ

So look, today is a really special day.

Um, it's my wife's birthday.

So, yeah.

I don't know if she's in the room or not.

I love I love Megan so much, and uh I forgot her birthday like seven years ago.

Um, I know.

That was a bad day.

That was a really bad day, bad moment.

And so I've been committed to not doing that ever again, obviously.

Many of you have helped.

I've gotten text messages every year since then reminding me.

Didn't get one of those this year, though.

Still remembered it was her birthday.

So progress.

Progress.

Yeah.

Husbands often operate with a low bar, you know what I mean?

And so I'm grateful.

But but Megan loves traveling, she loves the beach.

I'm not really a beach person, as you can tell by the complexion of my skin, which is uh glue.

That would be the comp I am the complexion of glue.

And so uh I don't I don't I don't sunbathe much, but it's her birthday, our kids are off school this week, and so we are leaving from here today.

We're going to Florida for a few days as a family, we're going to the beach, and I just want to ask for your prayers because here's what that means practically.

As soon as we're done today, and everyone kind of you know exits and we wrap up, I'm gonna get in a car and I'm gonna drive for like six, seven hours with my children in the back.

And I just want them to not fight.

That's all I want.

That's all I want.

It's it's amazing how many things children can find to fight about in a car.

And like, how many of you can really relate to this understanding?

Like, yes, either personally having kids, or like you remember being one and you maybe had siblings and you fought.

Like, I remember traveling with my family, and my little brother had this condition.

Um, I don't know if it was medical or not, but it was the reality is he has a gigantic head.

Um, it took him like 17 years to grow into his head.

And so my job driving was that when he would fall asleep, his neck relaxed, could not support the weight of his head.

And he would just do this, and my mom would say, Hold your brother's head on your shoulder.

And he's he's one of those people that sleeps hot, so he's sweat, and I just have this gigantic, sweaty head on my shoulder, and that was my drive.

Like, that was my my job.

And so Aaron and I, we we fought a lot in the car.

My kids find all kinds of ways to fight, and I know it's gonna happen today.

Like, I'm anticipating that.

And I've even told him, guys, just just don't please don't fight.

Please, just just get along, love each other.

Like sometimes I get so frustrated in the car that I'll look at them in the rearview mirror and just say, like, love each other or else.

I'm at that level.

I'm threatening them.

If you don't love each other, which is a weird thing to threaten, because they find all kinds of things.

You know, like they don't agree on music.

Good news, it's Megan's birthday, she gets to pick every song.

That's gonna be the way it works.

We'll simplify it.

They never agree on the food if we stop somewhere, um, just all kinds of things.

Sometimes they fight, and I'll say, what's going on?

And I've I've had one of my kids say that one of the other kids is looking at them.

Like, that's the reason for the fight.

They're looking at me, and I'm like, they are allowed to look at you.

Everyone in this family can look at everyone else in this family.

That's like a basic thing we can do.

I just know that there's gonna be fighting, and I don't want there to be.

And I think as a dad, I understand more than ever the heart that Jesus had in John 17.

This is right before he goes to the cross, and he prays.

It's a beautiful prayer, and in that prayer, verses 20 and 21, he says, I'm praying not only for these disciples, but also for all who will ever believe in me through their message, and that includes us.

I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one.

As you are in me, Father, and I am in you, and may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

Jesus says, Lord, may they be one, may they be unified.

I just want them to get along, I just want them to love each other.

That is something that Jesus had to speak to many times with his disciples while he was on the earth, as they would fight over all kinds of things.

And his like biggest wish before going to the cross is that we would be united, we would be one, that we would get along.

And here we are today, 2,000 years later, and we have clearly done great.

Right?

We could be like, Jesus, we got you.

There's only 41,000 denominations of Christian churches in the world, so we are really doing well.

Being sarcastic.

It's hard.

This is one of those things that we might have to look at and be like all the things that Jesus asked us to do, collectively as the church in the world, have we valued unity to the degree that he so clearly wanted us to value unity?

And the answer is no.

And there's a reason for that.

It is hard.

It is hard to live this out.

It's hard to live this out because we all have different convictions, different ideas of what's right, what's wrong, what's good, what's bad.

We're in a series right now called Living with Conviction.

We're studying Romans chapter 14 and the second, or the first rather part of Romans 15, which is all about this idea of being a person who lives with conviction.

Romans 14 · chapter mention

We talked last week that convictions are different than commands.

Commands come directly from our Creator.

God, as our creator, Jesus as our Savior can give us commands, and very often he does.

For example, John chapter 15.

John 15 · chapter mention

Jesus says this I have loved you even as the Father has loved me, remain in my love.

When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love.

Just as I obey my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

I've told you these things so that you will be filled with my joy.

Yes, your joy will overflow, and this is my commandment: love each other in the same way I have loved you.

Jesus commands us to love each other.

There are things that our creator has commanded us to do.

There are things our creator has commanded us not to do.

For example, Ephesians chapter 5 tells us that we should not get drunk with wine, but rather be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 5 · chapter mention

And actually it says, don't get drunk with wine, this will lead to ruin.

Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit.

None of us in here have ever been drunk, so this is easy for us to talk about.

Now you can look at a command like that, and if you wanted to be obstinate, you could be like, I take that seriously.

He says, Do not be drunk with wine, so I only get drunk on hard liquor.

That is because I want to obey, I want to do what he says.

So I don't touch wine.

I mean, I'm not going there.

I go with the other options.

Like, obviously, that would be wrong.

But not unprecedented.

Many have, many actually sort of approach the commands that God gives like that.

Like it's clear, and they're like, well, I think if you look at it this way, there's a way around it.

It's like, no, no, don't do that.

But but that's a command.

Convictions aren't the same as that.

Convictions come from our conscience, not from our creator, from our conscience.

Now, as we follow Jesus, I know not all of us here, not all of us watching, have maybe made that decision yet, but but many of us have, most of us have, and if you've decided to follow Jesus, your convictions, your deeply held beliefs about what is right, what is wrong, will probably stem from your desire to follow the commands that God has given us.

And so something like alcohol, people have all kinds of different convictions.

Some people are like, you know, I drink in moderation, it's fine.

Some people are like, I don't touch alcohol.

Because if I don't touch it, I won't get drunk, and that's your conviction, but that's not a command from God.

Some people will say, I drink a little bit privately, but I don't like to do it publicly, because I don't know, I just don't think maybe people might get confused, maybe they think I'm not drinking in moderation.

There's all kinds of convictions that people have related to alcohol.

And very often what happens in church or in religion is we start to elevate convictions to the level of commands, and people take their convictions and they think they're just as important, just as authoritative as a command, and that's when things just get really messed up, really silly, and we can't let that happen.

And so, commands and convictions aren't the same thing, but we are told in Scripture to live by our convictions and to make allowances for the convictions of others, and that's where it gets tough.

Because, like, look, you work with people who have different convictions than you.

Sure.

You go to school with people who have different convictions than you, of course.

That makes sense.

That's just the world.

You're on a team with people who have different convictions than you.

You live next to people who have different convictions than you, but it's it's different when you worship with people who have different convictions than you.

That's harder.

Because it's hard to be in an environment where you're like, these people, we share the same faith.

We believe in the same God.

We maybe even share some of the exact same core beliefs.

We go to the same church, we sit in the same row.

But we might have very different convictions.

And that's an odd thing.

Christians for centuries have struggled with that, which is why there are 41,000 denominations in the world.

Because everyone has this desire to say, I just want to be around people who are exactly like me.

And we're really committed to being different here because Jesus asks us to be.

I mean, if I love Jesus, if I love him, then I should take the things that he values really seriously, and he values so much unity, even if we have different convictions.

How do we actually live this out?

And that's what we're gonna look into today, specifically in Romans 14.

So let's just open it up.

Romans 14 says, accept other believers who are weak in faith.

Now, next week, we're gonna deal with this whole weak in faith, strong in faith concept.

Next week's really gonna be a conversation about freedom and understanding the freedom that God has given us.

But we'll save that for next Sunday.

He says, Don't argue with them about what they think is right or wrong.

For instance, one person believes it's all right to eat anything, but another person with a sensitive conscience will only eat vegetables.

Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don't, and those who don't eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them.

Who are you to condemn someone else's servant?

Their own master will judge whether they stand or fall.

And with the Lord's help they will stand and receive his approval.

In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike.

You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.

Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him.

Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating.

And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God.

For we don't live for ourselves or die for ourselves.

If we live, it's to the Lord.

It's to honor the Lord.

If we die, it's to honor the Lord.

So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

Christ died and rose again for this very purpose: to be Lord of the living and Lord of the dead.

So why do you condemn another believer?

Why do you look down on another believer?

Remember, we will all stand before the judgment seat of God, for the scriptures say, As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will declare allegiance to God.

Yes, each one of us will give a personal account to God.

So let's stop condemning each other.

Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not cause another believer to stumble and fall.

This is Paul, this leader in the early church who wrote Romans, saying, Guys, when it comes to your convictions, have them, live by them, be people of integrity, but when you come into contact with other believers who don't share your convictions, get over it.

Love each other.

Make allowances for one another, but but at the same time, value and honor the convictions of others.

Now, the specific example he gives to start off with is this whole idea of people who think it's okay to eat meat and others who who don't.

And just in case you're not clear what's going on there, it's kind of an interesting concept.

Here's what was happening.

One of two things.

A, um you would have had people who were Jewish becoming Jesus followers.

Jesus was Jewish, and our faith was really the foundation of it was Judaism, what we would call the Old Testament.

Jesus came and finished that work.

And so you had a lot of people who had grown up Jewish, they were giving their lives to Jesus, and if you grew up Jewish, you would have had very strict dietary laws.

And even though Jesus freed us from all that, and what defines us, what sets us apart, what makes us holy is his love for us, his sacrifice for us, the righteousness of Jesus given to us as a gift, that's what actually makes us holy.

It's not what we do, what we don't do, whether or not we've ever eaten bacon or not.

It's not that, right?

But it would have been really hard for those people just to let go of all those traditions, of all those convictions.

And so it could be that Paul's saying, look, some of you are having a hard time letting go of these really strong beliefs, these convictions you have about food.

And if that's the case, if your heart is to honor God, then fine, do that.

And those of you who have different convictions, let it be.

Or it could be a scenario that we actually see, if you ever want to read this, I'm not going to pull it up on the screen for the sake of time, but in 1 Corinthians chapter 8, Paul details this thing that was happening in the early church related to meat that was sacrificed to idols.

1 Corinthians 8 · chapter mention

And so the way that the ancient world sort of worked is you would go buy meat at a marketplace, but at every marketplace they would tend to sort of dedicate all the meat there to whatever God they happened to worship in their culture.

And so you had a lot of believers who had this check about eating meat that had been already offered in honor of a false God.

I go to the market, it'd be so weird, right?

Like I go to publics, but oh man, this chicken has been offered to Zeus, and I don't know if I can eat Zeus's chicken, because I don't believe in Zeus.

You know?

What do I do?

But there were people who had a really, they had a hard time with that because they didn't want to dishonor God by eating meat that had been offered to a false God.

And Paul actually said, look, guys, my take on it is that it's fine, eat the meat, because those gods aren't even real.

It's all make-believe.

Don't worry about it.

But at the same time, he said, but if you can't, if you struggle with that, if there's some like conviction, then live by that.

So these are the types of issues that are kind of dividing, potentially dividing the early church.

These types of convictions.

And here's what Paul ultimately says about this.

If we go to Romans chapter 15, verses 5 and 6.

Romans 15:5

What do we do with all these different convictions that we have about all these different things?

He says, May God, who gives this patience and encouragement, help you live in complete harmony with each other, as is fitting for followers of Christ Jesus, as is fitting.

Then all of you can join together with one voice, giving praise and glory to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

He's like, look, all this stuff that you're gonna have differences about, whatever it is, look, don't lose sight of the fact that we are called to live in harmony with one another, as is fitting for the followers of Jesus, because what did Jesus pray?

Lord, let them be one just as you and I are one.

Let them be united together.

Even though they have all kinds of different ideas about how things ought to be, let them be united together.

And what if, like church, what if we cared about that as deeply as Jesus cared about it, as deeply as Paul cared about it?

What if we actually made it this massive focus and priority to live this out?

It's so rare.

I've worked in church for 20 years, and I'm telling you, it's so rare.

How do you even do that?

I want to take a second and look at four words that I think kind of help help us navigate this.

And I want to look at maybe a modern example of something similar to what was happening with Paul and his people and the whole meat sacrifice to idols or whatever kind of thing.

So four words to sort of guide us in our desire to stay united.

First word is absolutes.

Alright?

We've got absolutes, interpretations, convictions, and preferences.

And these are ranked in order of importance.

What's an absolute?

An absolute would be something that God said.

Absolutely.

Like there are things that God is absolute about.

There are things that He has said, and there's no, there's no like wiggle room.

It's one of my favorite things about Jesus is he's not wishy-washy.

He doesn't flip-flop.

Jesus leaves no wiggle room.

Like when Jesus said things like, I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me, there's not a lot of wiggle room there.

That is an absolute statement.

And if someone gives you an absolute statement, you have to, you gotta respond.

You either reject it or you accept it.

Because there's not really anything else you can do with an absolute.

And so as a church, we have to take the absolutes really seriously.

And we do live in a time and in a culture where there's a lot of pressure to sort of soften up on the absolutes.

Because some of the things that God says absolutely don't really fit with modern day priorities and beliefs about what's good and what's not.

And so it's very easy as Jesus followers to go, well, I don't want to look like I'm some type of person living in the past.

I don't want to look like I'm out of touch with sort of the modern day sensitivities of the world.

So these absolutes.

No, no, no, guys, we have to take the absolutes of God absolutely.

Because, like, look, if I were ever to teach you as a pastor, if I were ever to teach you in a different way, in a way that living that out would be going against an absolute of God, I would be putting you in a position to either do what I say or do what God says, and that, let me help you, is an easy choice.

Do what God says.

So that's the absolutes.

The funny thing is, very few believers ever disassociate because of absolutes.

It does happen, it has happened, it will happen, but that's actually not, in my experience, what I've seen, at least in our kind of modern culture, that's not the main things that people get all upset about.

There tends to be a lot of agreement about the absolutes.

So then you go to interpretations.

Interpretations, these would be things that are in scripture.

They're in scripture.

But they're able to be interpreted a couple of different ways.

They're just not as clear.

It's a little bit more fuzzy, and God, I guess, was okay with it being a little bit fuzzier, and you sort of have to work it out.

It's an interpretation.

It's a matter of interpreting this scripture, this thing that God has said in the best way possible, the most responsible way that you can.

And you have to do that by looking at sort of the whole of scripture, you look at the context, you look at the teachings of Jesus, and you do your best to interpret it to the best of your ability.

And if you think you've done that, you take that interpretation really simply, or really seriously, rather, but you don't elevate it to the level of an absolute, because it isn't one.

And then beneath interpretations are our convictions.

Convictions.

And that's what we've been talking about the last couple weeks.

These are your deeply held personal beliefs that very often are going to stem from the absolutes and the interpretations that you have.

But they're your convictions.

And beneath even that, way less important, are your preferences.

It's just the stuff you like versus the stuff you don't.

But you know what's so funny?

And by the way, I'm just gonna say this, I'm not intending to offend anyone.

So if I do on accident, I'm asking for your forgiveness, and that's between you and God, and I guess me.

But like, I'm saying if you've ever gone to like Facebook, and in our community, there's this page called Cherokee Connect.

And it's a great page, by the way, lots of cool information you can get on it.

And sometimes people will post, I'm looking for a church.

And if you've done this before, by the way, I'm not trying to offend you.

There's nothing, there's no sin in going to Facebook saying, hey, I'm looking for a church.

But it's so funny if you search church on that page, like the things people list out, what they're looking for, it's like 98% preferences.

Like no one ever goes on their, hey, I'm really looking for a church that deeply values the truth of God, where the people are focused and committed on loving one another and being generous with the community, where people don't take themselves too seriously and don't elevate themselves or the people on stage.

It's always like, it's always like a dating ad.

There was literally one just a few weeks ago that's like, I want a church, it was like Goldilocks, not too big, but not too small.

It's like, what does that even mean?

It's like, I want a church that likes long walks on the beach and just wants to sit down and snuggle with, you know, like it's kind of that stuff.

And it again, it's just in there's nothing wrong with wanting to find a church that fits you, because in the early church, there there weren't 50 churches to choose from.

If you lived in Corinth, there's one group of believers in Corinth.

Right?

We have more choices, and it's fine to choose a church based on what fits you.

That's okay.

There's nothing wrong with that.

My my point is simply that in our day and age, it seems like it's the preferences, or at least the preferences and convictions, that end up being the driving force behind the way that people choose to engage with God.

Or they're just not that concerned with the loftier things.

And so churches like split all the time, or people, maybe they don't split officially, but people might leave in a divisive manner.

It's not wrong to leave a church, go to a different church that fits you better, and so it's fine, but but sometimes people leave in a divisive way, and almost always when I've seen people leave in divisive ways, it's not because of something that happened that broke an absolute.

Or it's not even because they have this difference of opinion on a deeply debated interpretation, it's because I just don't like that very much.

That went against my preference or my conviction, and that very often gets raised.

To a higher level than it should be, and so you have division.

I spent some time this week trying to think of like, okay, what is a modern version of this?

And the first thing that came to my mind was music.

So, like, music in the church, how many of us, just out of curiosity, have been in church most of our lives?

So you're going, like, how many of you could say, I've been in the church for 20, 30 years in that sort of stage?

Okay.

So, those of us who can say that, I was 10 when we started going to church, slightly against my will, but I did it, and you know, my parents were in charge, and I'm grateful to it.

So, mom and dad, if you're watching, thank you for taking me to church.

Thank you for dragging me to church when I was 10 years old.

Music has changed a lot in church in the last 30 years.

Like a ton.

And when I first started here, I was 23 years old, so I was I was young.

And you know, when you're young, you think you've got it all figured out.

And our church was the first church in Cherokee County that did worship with like some some wattage behind it, if that makes sense.

Okay?

And that, for many people, was a problem.

I would say that the vast majority of complaints against our church in the early days were completely focused on the music.

Right?

And and I get it.

Now, again, I was young, and so I used to be very sarcastic, and I wouldn't always say these things, but I would think things that maybe were true, they weren't loving.

Right?

So I had one person one time said, your church's music sounds like the world.

And the first thought that I had was, so does yours, it just sounds like the world 300 years ago.

Okay?

Right?

Which is funny, because you laughed, but wrong in that it was mean-spirited, and that's clearly not like operating the way that Paul is begging us to operate, that Jesus is begging to operate.

That's not making allowances for one another's convictions.

But can we at least say this?

Can we at least try to put where does music rank on this list?

The way that churches do music, is it an absolute?

Would anyone say that it's an absolute?

It's okay if you do.

Okay, well, now what's interesting about that is that at a different point in time, people did feel like this was an absolute.

So, for example, I'll read you a quote.

This is John Calvin.

John Calvin's a major player in the history of theology, at least.

Also, kind of a stick in the mud.

I think John Calvin really cared about Jesus.

It just never, if you ever read John Calvin or anything about him, it doesn't seem like he was a fun guy, but whatever.

Um, maybe he was, and I just I'll get to meet him one day.

We are not, indeed, forbidden to use in private musical instruments, but they are banished out of the churches by the plain command of the Holy Spirit.

You're like, John Calvin would listen to like an old Baptist church singing amazing grace with a piano and be like blasphemy.

Like, seriously, because that's that's an absolute statement.

Like it is banished by the clear command of the Holy Spirit.

And I'd be like, John.

John, dude.

Like, come on.

But he wasn't alone.

Samuel Rutherford was a Scottish pastor, very well read, and he said that an acts of worship for God not to command is to forbid.

So, in other words, if God does not tell you specifically to do it, that is the same as God forbidding it.

And like, if I could talk to him, I'd be like, Sam, dude.

So you're saying, like, if I leave home and I don't tell my kids that they are permitted to eat the grapes in the refrigerator, and I get home and they've eaten the grapes, that they're in trouble because by me not telling them to eat the grapes, I was telling them not to eat the grapes.

And he would say, Yeah.

And I'd be like, Sam, come on, man.

How that's just not practical.

There's no way that can't, you can't live that out.

Charles Spurgeon, he said this use of instruments in worship is rejected and condemned by the whole army of Protestant divines.

He spoke in very fancy terms.

Spurgeon's hard to read sometimes.

You're like, oh, you gotta really think when you read Spurgeon.

That was their tradition.

In fact, the word a cappella literally translates in the style of the church.

It's Latin, a meaning from, and then capello is chapel.

Because for the first thousand plus years of our faith, Christians sang with no instruments.

And then eventually that that kind of changed.

There was a time when violins being played in a church was like, this is, are we gonna get struck by lightning?

I'm not lying.

Like that was a big deal.

And then you know, you get organs and you get pianos, and then eventually it's guitars, and and then look at where we've look at how far we have fallen.

You know?

There are so many instruments now.

So I would say that music style, I'm not talking about the heart of worship.

Like if people are glorified, and if it becomes more about performance, if it's more of a production, if it becomes a situation where the people on stage are really making it about them, that's different.

But the style of music, I would say, is gotta be a conviction or a preference.

It's gotta be one of those two.

It's hard for me to see any way that it could be argued otherwise, and I'm open to that if you have a different opinion.

Let's talk.

But it's gotta be like in that conviction preference.

And yet, so often in the last 30 years, this has been like the thing that churches divide over.

So when I was in high school, we went to this small Southern Baptist church, is how I grew up with Southern Baptist, and I'm really grateful I did.

I learned a lot.

I learned a lot about the word, and we had a worship guy, and he was fired, and the reason given, I'm sure there was more behind the scenes that wasn't spoken, but the reason given for him being let go was that he was singing too many praise and worship songs.

Now, for those of you that weren't around in the church in the mid-90s, like our God is an awesome God, remember that song?

How many of us remember our God is an awesome God?

That's the song that you never knew when it was gonna end.

It just could like, it could like instantly, it could loop forever.

It's like our God is an awesome God.

Our God is an awesome God.

He okay, we're doing it again.

Like we would go forever.

That was a praise and worship song.

It wasn't a it just wasn't a hymn.

Like you came from heaven to earth.

Anyone remember that?

Anyone that's old?

Okay, makes you feel old.

Makes me feel old.

Some of the younger people are like, you guys, yeah, it was a thing.

So he that's what he was talking about.

These were just songs that weren't hymns.

And I'll never forget it because he stood on stage and he said, I'm not a big fan of those songs.

And sarcastic young me is like, I don't think you're the intended audience of those songs.

None of us are, right?

And that is to honor God.

And it was a big deal in our church.

And so the guy got fired because he wasn't doing enough hymns, and and it actually caused a lot of division in the church about music.

About music.

Like you look at Jesus saying, Lord, let them be one.

Let them be one.

And unless, of course, Lord, they like different styles of music, then of course they should split, right?

You can't see Jesus saying that.

This is just kind of a modern example of this.

My wife was at a church when she was in high school, and their youth pastor played music, and he could play an acoustic guitar, that was fine, but he plugged it into an amp, which was not.

And it made it an electric guitar, and he was let go.

It was like the final straw for him because he made it electric.

And we can kind of laugh about that, but I'm telling you guys, not that long ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, whenever it was we started, I don't know what year it is, 18 years ago.

So, like some of us who were here in the early days of his hands, like that was a normal conversation over music.

And it's and it's just it's so silly.

Like Amazing Grace, that classic hymn.

Do you know that Amazing Grace was set to the tune of an Appalachian folk song?

It wasn't the the writer of Amazing Grace didn't write a melody to go with it.

It was really a poem, and then it was taken and it was put to different tunes, and the one that ended up becoming the Amazing Grace that we sing, it was a tune of a non-Christian like just folk song.

People knew it.

And they're like, Yeah, let's put it to that.

It sounds good.

But you have so many people today that might be like, no, no, no, that song, like God just spoke it directly down to the writer and said, Sing it like this.

That didn't happen.

Because you know what, it's not an absolute, it's a it's a conviction, it's a it's a preference.

And so this this is just again, I'm just using this as an example.

And so a couple weeks ago, and I'll I'll get off the music thing, a couple weeks ago, uh, we had a newcomer gathering, and there was this lovely, lovely, awesome woman named Marilyn who is at our newcomer gathering.

And I talked to Marilyn on the phone this week, and I asked her if I could if I could tell this story, and she said, sure.

And so Marilyn is new to his hands and loves it.

And and Marilyn said, I grew up in a very different type of church, and it's take I'm not used to your music style.

And I and I I said, Marilyn, I totally understand that.

I I get that.

That can be kind of jarring if you've grown up in a different type of environment.

She said, Yeah.

She said, I was here at Easter, and you guys didn't sing because he lives.

And now, sarcastic Justin still exists.

But he's more playful than he used to be, and I think it's more clear that he's joking.

And so I said, You mean you came at Easter and we didn't play your favorite song?

And she laughed, and we had a little bit of a moment, and I said, Marilyn, how in the world did they celebrate Easter before that song was written?

Because it was written by the Gaiters in 1970 something, 1971, I think.

And so if you're not familiar with the song, here's kind of some of the lyrics.

And because he lives, I can face tomorrow.

Because he lives, all fear is gone.

Because I know he holds the future and life is worth living, just because he lives.

I don't know if you guys are familiar with that song or not.

The Gaithers are not people we've pulled a lot of music from over the years at his hands.

I wasn't super familiar with it.

And I told her, like, I know that song a little bit, but not super familiar.

And I'm sorry we didn't sing that song.

It's not one of our kind of traditions.

And she was awesome.

She was like, it's it's okay.

I'm gonna make it.

You know?

Just thank God for Spotify or iTunes or or all of that.

But but again, it's this example of something modern day that churches are willing to divide over.

Even if they don't divide, you'll you'll drive by and you'll see places that have like two services, and there's contemporary and traditional.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

It's not a sin to do that at all.

In fact, it might be a great solution.

But it at the very least, it is interesting because it's like saying we're willing to separate to some degree purely based on musical preference.

And I look at that and I go, man, I can't judge that because it's not wrong, but I'm so glad that's not our culture here, because I don't want any of us to be divided for any reason.

We have to understand that if our enemy knows how deeply our God values our unity, we have to understand and be on guard with the knowledge that he will try to come at that.

It's like if you know how much I love my children, you would know that the best way to get to me is to go through them.

Like that's the best way to mess with me.

Well, the Lord, He wants us to be so united, and of course, of course, our enemy would use anything to divide us.

And and the the challenge is can we let that happen?

Are we willing to allow anything?

Now, now again, music at his hands.

One of my favorite things, I'll say this, Matt, our worship guy.

Matt's been out of town for a couple weeks, he'll be back soon.

Um, but Matt, Matt, over the last few years has started putting a lot more hymns into our set lists.

Something I never asked him to do, but I don't pick the music.

And that's a good thing.

And I remember talking to Matt, like, hey, they're starting to put more hymns in, and Matt, I loved his answer because he said, you know, there's just a lot of people in our church, and those songs mean a lot to them, and so we should just do them.

And I was like, Yeah.

It was hard for me to find fault with that.

Like, yeah, but they're not as cool.

Right?

Doesn't work.

Yeah, I was like, that's exactly it.

This is one of those conversations today that isn't so much about how we all kind of go and live out in the world.

This is really kind of an internal as a church, as a family, whether you've been here for years or or you're relatively new, can we actually live this out?

And Jesus said, let them be one.

And Paul said, Don't don't argue about your convictions.

Don't don't ever divide over disputable things.

But be united, live in harmony with one another, join together with one voice, even though you might have different convictions, different preferences, can we actually live this out?

Because it's very rare.

It's very rare, especially in a culture where, you know, if you wanted to, you can go find a church that fits your exact preferences.

Man, what would it be like if for decades there was a church that said, no, we're not dividing over silly things.

We're we're not.

Can we actually be a church that says the absolutes, we are going to stand by those?

No matter what, even if we get flat, or we can say, Yeah, but God said God said that.

I was teaching something at the beginning of Romans that was semi-controversial in our culture today, and I actually didn't did I didn't even like riff on it.

I didn't even talk about it in my own voice, I just read what the scripture said and moved on, and I had an email from a lady that said, I'm so upset at what you said, and I had to be like, ma'am, I didn't say that.

That's scripture.

Like, I just read it.

So you gotta take that up with God.

That's between you and him.

You need to wrestle with him on it, and I loved her answer.

She said, Well, if I wrestle with God, I know I'm not gonna win.

And I was like, correct.

That is an astute observation, right?

But she said, All right, she said, I understand.

I'll I'll I'll wrestle with God on that, and I love it.

And so just because we take a firm stand on absolutes doesn't mean we have to do that in an unloving way.

It's just saying, yeah, God said this, we're gonna hold to it.

It's important.

Like, let's let's be a church that when it comes to interpretations, we do the work and say, yeah, let's really dig in and study this and and ask ourselves, are we interpreting this correctly?

Are we doing this the right way?

And then when it comes to the convictions and preferences, what if we were a church that just kind of said, ah, well?

Like let's let's have fun together, let's do our best, whether it's music, whether it's it's anything else.

I mean, there's all kinds of things that fall into this category, but what if we actually understood that that's where those things belong, and we never let them elevate higher than they ought to?

And the result of that is that we all just love each other, we get to know each other really well, we get to be a church that that has roots in a community, and we get to grow and thrive together, and we just don't divide, and we're uniquely united, and that makes us uniquely qualified to actually help people see who Jesus is because he said that it was your unity that would be proof to the world that I'm real.

How awesome would that be?

That'd be amazing.

And so, actually, uh, worship team, you guys can come out.

I think it would be appropriate to finish, just to finish with some worship.

One little extra bit of worship, I think would be good.

Romans 15, 5 through 6, I read this a minute ago.

He said, May God, who gives this patience and encouragement, help you live in complete harmony with each other, as is fitting for followers of Christ Jesus, then all of you can join together with one voice, giving praise and glory to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So one of the beauties of worship is it gives us a really obvious way to do this: to join together with one voice.

Like when we worship together, it's us unifying together.

And, you know, we're talking about music this morning.

Music has been this thing that for centuries, for thousands of years, Jesus followers, Christians, people who follow God before Jesus, it's basically like, hey, God, what can I give to you that you would like?

What can I give to you that you don't have?

I wrote you a song.

Like, that's basically what it is.

It's us as people going, like, I'm creative, and we have people that do music and we've written something that we hope would bless you.

That's what people have been doing for years, no matter what style of music it comes from.

And so this gives us a chance to do this.

And I guess what I'm asking today, I'm kind of dreaming a little bit, of just being a truly united church.

Where we love each other so so much.

That while it's totally okay to say, here's here's kind of what my preferences and convictions are, and those should be like, okay, let's take those into consideration at the same time.

We just say, you know what?

We're gonna let those live where they should live.

We're not gonna let them rank up beyond where they should.

Instead, instead, we're gonna value what's most important and we're gonna make allowances for one another when we share different convictions and different preferences.

Does that make sense?

All right.

Let's pray and let's worship together.

And I really want to encourage us all to like stand and worship together and really be united as we as we leave today.

So, Father, thank you so much for this day.

Thank you, Lord, for this opportunity that we have to come together.

And you have asked us, Jesus.

You prayed to the Father and said, May we be one.

And I pray, Lord, that we are.

I pray that we take that seriously.

I pray, Lord, that we we never allow any disputable thing separate us.

Just like Paul said, not to let this whole meat being sacrificed to idols, all that business, don't let that divide you, Lord.

I pray that nothing ever divides us.

Lord, that nothing short of an absolute being disregarded is worth separating over.

I believe that in my heart.

And I just wonder what it would be like if a church actually lived that out, because I don't think it happens that often.

But I think it can happen here.

I really do.

So I pray that you would give us a heart to come together or to love each other, to serve each other, to live for you, and to unite together, to make room for one another's differences when we share different convictions.

We ask this in your name, Jesus.

Amen.