The First "Speaking in Tongues" Moment - Acts 2

Hey everybody and welcome back to another podcast where we do Bible study.

Today, our special guest.

I I I listened to you pause there like this doesn't have a name.

It doesn't have a name.

Welcome to like it's our podcast where we do Bible study, Bible study podcast.

Welcome to the Hiss Hands Church Bible study hour.

Calling it Bible study podcast seems pr presumptuous.

Welcome to BS.

How about that?

I love it.

There we go.

Megan's subscribe button.

Megan's with Megan's with us today as we continue.

Megan loves BS.

Study.

She is really into I don't know if we can keep this bit.

I think we can.

Okay, well, I'm not sure.

I know, but I'm not going to escalate it.

Like I can't participate in it without it escalating.

That is true.

We're in Acts chapter two today, and we're going to read a little section and then we'll talk about it.

Is that all right?

Yeah.

We read Acts chapter one last time.

This time Acts chapter two.

Who wants to read?

Oh, actually.

Megan.

Is that always you?

Do we have to do it?

Well, we read we read sections.

Yeah, it's your first time on the podcast.

It's really simple.

Yeah, yeah.

And by the way, it's our second time doing this.

Welcome to our established.

It's a highly You tell us how we do it.

We can do it lots of ways.

What we did last time was we just read a section and uh you know, and honestly, it's pretty basic.

The sections as they are pretty much broken down for us already in our Bibles.

Um and then we talk about it.

And then we read another section and we talk about it.

Oh okay.

Read another section, talk about it.

Great.

Do you want to read the first section?

Well, I didn't I didn't bring um You brought your nerdy Bibles.

I was gonna read this out loud.

You gotta put that microphone closer to you.

I'm just gonna let you know.

There we go.

Don't be shy.

I can't read it.

Okay.

Um what translation do we all have?

Let's talk about that for a second.

I've got new I've I've got all of them.

N L T.

You've got the iPhone translation.

Yep, the iPhone.

You're you're doing ESV.

Nerd.

Um That's not that nerdy.

If I was like I was a great idea.

It's my NASB.

If I was NASB, that'd be a little bit nerdy.

That's true.

That'd be nerdier.

NASB is great too.

Megan is so TLV.

Normal, nerd, weird.

That's our categories.

I'm just joking.

Tell me what what's the Bible you have?

I have TLV.

TLV.

Yeah.

Which stands for Tree of Life version.

Tree of life version, which is.

Which is a version that has been translated by rabbis.

Okay.

Okay.

So what basically what Megan's Bible is, is that every fifth word is a Jewish word that I don't know.

Trevor Burrus, it's not every fifth word.

It's a lot of words.

It's a lot of words.

And what what it does is it's trying to preserve like for example.

It preserves the Jewish names, it preserves the Jewish festivals, it preserves the Jewish calendar.

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Which is really meaningful because in some places, like in our Bible just translate it God, but it could be different names being used for God.

And those names have slightly different Yeah, slightly different things.

But Megan will like not give like a warning shot sometimes when she'll start reading it.

You have to define the terms.

Correct.

And she's like, you don't know what that is.

So if I knew we were reading out loud, I wouldn't have brought this one.

I didn't know what we were reading.

I'll read it.

I'll read it.

Justin, you can read it.

I got it.

I think you got it.

All right, here you go.

Let's go.

Acts chapter 2.

Acts 2 · chapter mention

So we went- we went with the nerd version.

We went nerd.

Wait, why have mine the nerd version?

I'm just joking.

We're good.

The Jewish parts actually mean a lot in Acts too.

You know what, guys?

This is an argument.

Let me pause.

I'm sorry for my whole the whole everything about myself right now.

I like just realized I just flew in off the I was at a hospice visit praying with somebody, and then I like walked in here and sat down and it's okay.

I'm sorry.

I I forget I think we should keep all this.

I agree.

We should.

Absolutely.

But the not that nerdy version go.

All right.

Acts chapter two.

Uh when the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place, and suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting, and divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.

And they were filled with they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.

And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language, and they were amazed and astonished, saying, Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?

And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language, Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Pyrgia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya beyond or belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytites, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.

And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, What does this mean?

But others mocking said, They are filled with new wine.

Guess that's a good place to stop.

I can't believe I got through all of those names.

No, you only and only one of them I think you mispronounced.

Phrygia?

I think it's Phrygia?

Phrygia, Phrygia.

Oh yeah, I would have put the I put the Y in the phone.

I don't think any of us know how to pronounce Frig Yeah.

Yeah.

We got it.

Yeah.

This is a Megan, I know this is a story you've you've studied a lot.

Yeah.

I know you have.

Like so.

Because I remember you were talking to me about this maybe a year ago, you were studying this, and you were really like fixated on the sound that they all heard and like the fact that they all came.

Like there's something about that.

I can't remember what you were telling me about it, but um Yeah.

So yeah, talk to us about that.

Sound?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because like it says that they all the people heard a sound and came to see.

Like there's the sound that comes in, that's the wind.

And then there's the the tongues utterance is do you think the people on the outside heard the people talking, or do you think they heard the wind sound?

Like what did they come in to see?

Uh the wind sound is specifically unique in that the so the Bible reading of the people in that time was specific to the day.

So whatever was read in the temple was very specific.

And we know what day it was because of verse one.

So it says, you know, when the when the day in my weird Bible um tells us that it's a holiday and it's the day of Shabbat.

So on that it is the um festival of weeks, the feast of weeks.

What is that?

It is uh a holiday where all of the people would have been gathered in Jerusalem and they would have been bringing baskets of wheat and barley along with six other spices and uh it's like pomegranates and um I can't remember all the spices, but they would have the farmers would have been gathering their first fruits um and would have been bringing them to the temple.

There's a feast of first fruits that also happens.

That's at resurrection.

This is a different one.

Um and they would have been bringing their baskets to the temple to celebrate a harvest.

Awesome.

You have to do that with Megan, because she knows a lot of things.

And you have to be asking multiple questions.

What were they reading?

Because you said the reading would have been specific.

It was a sp a specific reading, and they would have been reading the part in I think it's Ezekiel, where he hears the rushing wind and God um speaking and his voice sounds like a rushing wind.

So that was the temple reading in the morning.

And they have morning readings and evening readings, and the morning reading would have been the rushing wind reading.

So do you think this was like God saying, like, listen, this is me?

Like I'm confirming this.

Yes.

Yeah.

So they're they're already at something where they would have been reading a story or reflecting on a story that involves rushing wind.

And then they hear as the presence of God coming from heaven to make it.

That's cool.

So the rushing wind would have been a familiar passage.

If you think about it, it's almost like we're used to on Easter a story about a stone rolling away.

And it's like if you had shown up somewhere and there's a giant stone that's rolling, and you're like, wait, wait, wait, why is there a giant stone rolling on Easter?

Like that would have conjured up something like God's doing something very familiar.

Right.

So the rushing wind would have been God is here, he's doing something, and it would have been like alarm bells going off.

Then you would have heard that same passage every year.

Right.

It's like if a star if a bright star showed up over your church on Christmas, you'd be like, What's happening?

Something's happening here.

Um That's good.

It would have been a moment.

Yeah, those those details really matter.

I, by the way, just went on a very short little rabbit trail.

Okay.

Because when you were reading the different types of people, like one of them is Cretans.

And Cretan That's like an insult.

It's an insult.

Yeah.

And I was like, what is the origin of that?

Like Cretans, and it's actually the Bible.

Nice.

And also philosophy.

So Cretans had really bad reputations.

Uh they were all they were known as being liars and deceitful.

And then Titus 1:12, uh, Paul writes, one of Crete's own prophets has said it.

Titus 1:12

Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.

So they're there and they hear in their own language what has been being talked about.

We're there too.

That's uh, you know, I was just what it's like.

That's right.

So all kinds of people.

And they hear they hear this wind, they go, and then they what do you guys think?

Okay.

So they also hear the people talking.

They hear people talking.

There's a lot of commotion.

Well, no, that wasn't just people talking, like something happened and there was a sound.

So there's a couple camps with this.

One is that the the disciples began speaking those other languages.

The actual word is tongues.

They were speaking tongues.

And some some translations, like New Living says languages.

Do you think that they were speaking other languages, or do you think that they were speaking something else and the people were hearing?

Are you saying like the Holy Spirit is translating for them, or the Holy Spirit is other people are just out there drunk.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And so it's like it almost gives you the impression that some of the people hear it is like just a bunch of gibberish.

And they're like, these guys are.

I think I I probably would land in the place of like you walk into a raucous church meeting that you don't connect with for whatever reason.

Like you see a bunch of different I'm trying to think of like a place, and I'm I'm kind of disappointed that I'm thinking of Disney World.

No, actually that's what I went to as well.

I've only been to Disney World a couple times.

Yeah.

Well, really, once when I was six, and then once we went with uh your dad had like a thing, Megan, where he spoke it in Orlando and he Liam was are you our oldest was like six or something like that, or younger, it was two.

But I remember walking Disney World and being taken aback by all the languages I was hearing and not knowing what any of them are.

Right.

And especially in that uh in Epcot where it's got like those places that represent the different countries.

Yeah.

And you walk into some of those like tavern areas, and the tavern is different than a church, obviously, but you see everyone kind of like just the hubbub, and it's this general hubbub.

I kind of land in the place of someone walked in, they see the hubbub, and they're like, this is clearly a party.

Everyone's rejoicing, everyone's talking, everything like there's been loud banging or noise whooshing.

I kind of land in that that camp of like they just are inferring that they're not hearing, I don't think, hearing babbling, because the ones that do hear, we hear we hear them speaking in in his own language.

Right.

So so you think, and I'm fine, by the way, I think this is the more traditional view, is that they were speaking in this moment.

They're speaking other languages that they did not know how to speak in and of themselves.

Aaron Ross Powell I have I have an interesting idea, but I don't I mean there's no way to prove like what was going on like if we weren't there.

But when you read it, it almost okay, it almost sounds like they were bewildered.

Okay, so in verse six, it says they were bewildered because each so you have all these different people, each was hearing them speak in his own language.

So it's like if we were having a conversation and someone outside was like, I hear them speaking.

That's what I was saying.

Like, is it like a big translation?

I hear them speaking Egyptian.

Right.

I hear them speaking Libyan.

Yeah.

That's weird.

Yeah, so it's either there's a bunch of them, maybe one of them speaking this language, another one speaking that one, or they're speaking in the Holy Spirit's translating it in their own language, like how is that happening?

How are we hearing them speak it?

I'm hearing them speak in in language from Crete, but I'm hearing them speak it in Arabic.

Like, that doesn't make any sense.

Um because as you read it, it says, and they were amazed and astonished saying, All those who are speaking are Galilean.

How is that working?

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's it's interesting.

It sounds like a collective work.

Well, and it's clearly, it's clearly a miracle.

It's clearly something that everyone is amazed by.

But I think what's also cool, and we'll move on, is that there's that faction that just goes, ah, they just dismiss it.

And I think that's the thing about it.

What do you mean?

Well, they're just like, oh, they're just drunk.

Oh, right.

Um, and I think that the crazy thing about life is that you would think that every person could be convinced by a miracle, but there's always a hardness of heart that is it's true that people, just like the Pharisees, no matter what God does, no matter how obvious, no matter how amazing, no matter how clear, there will always be people who scoff at it, who reject it, who just like dismiss it.

You know what I mean?

Because it's easy for us to go, like, how could people have looked at Jesus, do the things he did, and not been like, it's just the way I don't know.

Do you think that those people were included in the miracle, or they were on the outside of the miracle?

Because like I get the impression that everyone that's hearing the translating work, whatever's happening, yeah, I feel like those are the people that were waiting or were in the temple when the tongues of fire descended.

Yeah, I don't know.

And then it feels like this other group kind of runs up and sees something on the outside, they're not able to I don't know.

It just says others in the crowd, it doesn't give us this enough detail.

Yeah.

Um Well, there were so many people in Jerusalem at the time, because everyone would have been everyone would have been bringing their their um sacrifices, their offering to the temple.

There would have been it the Jerusalem.

I mean later we I mean it's devout.

These are devout Jews, right?

Like these are yeah.

Yeah.

I didn't mean to cut you off.

No, it's okay.

But I did.

I didn't mean to.

Sorry.

My bad.

Um Yeah.

So, you know, and I the only reason I bring that up is because I think it's just important, even for our own selves, to check our hearts and go, Lord, just help me to be open.

Like help me to always be open to what you're doing.

You know what I mean?

Because even devout people like the Pharisees or these people here can just be really closed off to what God is up to.

Yeah.

But the story continues.

Okay.

Well, and and something about this too, uh this passage has helped me pray for other people.

Um that when I feel like someone needs an encounter with the Lord, because these these people that were staying in Jerusalem weren't part of the disciples or part of the people who were waiting for the Holy Spirit.

Because remember, these people were told to wait for the Holy Spirit.

So there's this group of people who are waiting, and then there's this other group of Jewish people who are just there because they're there.

Um and the people who are waiting for the Holy Spirit receive the Holy Spirit because they're obedient to what Jesus had told them to do.

Right.

Um I've I as I pray for people who maybe aren't waiting, they're just going about their lives.

And I want them to have an encounter with the Holy Spirit, but they're not they don't even know to wait for the Holy Spirit.

Right.

Um friends or family or or whoever.

One of the things that I pray a lot um because of this passage is Lord speak their language, whatever that is.

Um because he's done it before.

So whatever their language is, um maybe it's through a song, or maybe it's getting their attention while they're driving, or maybe it's getting their attention at work, or it's a coworker, or a person they bump into at a store.

Um but God knows their language, like what what is their birth language?

What is it that they're going to see or hear or something that's going to get their attention and get them to stop their normal routine and look and and like what is it?

Like what gets their attention?

That's really good.

So I often find myself praying, God speak their language, um, because he's willing to.

So yeah.

That's good.

Love it.

And we continue.

Sounds good.

Uh but Peter, and this is where I would mention, I just really like that that story doesn't stop there, and and those others that are mocking, Peter translates for them.

They get they get plenty of opportunity.

Uh but Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them Men of Judea and all who dwell with in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.

For these people are not drunk as you suppose, since it's only the third hour of the day.

But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel.

And in the last days it shall be, God declares that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.

Even on my male servants and female servants, in those days I will pour out my spirit, and they shall prophesy.

And I will show wonders in the heavens above, and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke, the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon turned to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day, and it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Men of Israel, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know, this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it.

For David says concerning him, I saw the Lord Lord always before me, for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken.

Therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced, my flesh also will dwell in hope, for you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your holy one seek corruption.

You have made known to me the paths of life, you will make me full of gladness with your presence.

Brothers, I may say to you with confidence, about the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God has sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

This Jesus God raised up, and of that we are all witnesses.

Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

Let all the house of Israel, therefore, know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.

Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brothers, what shall we do?

And Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord calls to himself.

And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.

So those who received his word were baptized, and there added, there were added that day about three thousand souls.

We can save that last little chunk for the end.

So Peter gives that message that really explains, and I just love the journey.

And like you said, like being open to what God is up to.

Others were mocking, saying they're drunk.

He says they're they're not drunk, and explains in in their language, like the way that they would understand here's here's scripture, here's what they're doing.

I think that got some chuckles.

Probably.

And then that it goes kind of ends with they were cut to the heart.

And they're like, Well, what what should we do now?

And so I I just love that.

Yeah.

No, this is this is good.

Um I think what uh this is kind of what my one of my takes on it as I was preparing today and just thinking about it.

Is um I mean I don't know how to talk about this without being like I'm not taking shots at other churches or other this is not what I'm intending to do, but there has been a big movement.

I don't know if that's really fair.

There there has been a focus from some you know, churches and pastors in the last Several years to kind of like do away with the Old Testament as much.

You know what I mean?

Like we we don't need it, it's just just the New Testament.

But you know, in this moment, now, granted, Peter is talking to devout Jews in Jerusalem who are there for a Jewish festival.

However, um, sometimes that movement, like the way people will talk about, like, oh yeah, you know, it was almost like the disciples just said, Hey, Jesus, he lived and then he died and he got back up, and so we believe.

Right.

Like I know a guy who's like, I believe the Bible, but really I just believe the gospels.

And I'm like, it's like Jesus believed the Old Testament.

Like, where do you where do you draw the line on like what's the important connection and where where are those where is the truth coming from?

And and the interesting thing here is is the proof that Peter presents to them, because this isn't an argument he's making, right?

They see a miracle, but then there's there is an appeal to their knowledge that's here.

And and yes, it is that Jesus is raised from the dead, but what he goes back to are the prophecies and the scriptures and and what God had already done before and already said before that gives meaning to what Jesus did.

Like Jesus raising from the dead means that he is the one that David was talking about.

It means that he is the one that the prophets prophesied about.

And and for Peter, Peter didn't just go like, hey, you guys all heard of Jesus.

Well, he died and he got back up.

You should follow him.

He he's connecting the dots for them in very deep ways, and the light bulbs are going off in their minds as they're going, oh yes, like these are people that knew the scriptures, and they're now they're seeing like, yes, this is the fulfillment of that.

Um and so they believed, not just because an event happened.

I think that's really important.

They believed because an event happened, and the meaning of that event was explained to them through the truth of God's word.

Yeah.

Um now when Paul goes into Athens and he's talking to not people who knew it.

He appeals to a different kind of knowledge.

He does.

He appeals to logic and some other things, even some other philosophy.

Um, but I think it's just important to know that God has been writing this story for a long time.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And this moment wasn't just some random act of change.

It was like this is something that's been building forever, and now it's here, and all of that connects.

And so I think it's why it's it's why it is partially so important to have a knowledge of the Old Testament, what God did, and because it's all setting Jesus up and it brings a fullness to who he is that you would never get if you just opened up to the book of Matthew and just started there.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Do you think that the prophecy from Joel, where it's talking about blood and fire and vapor of smoke, sun shall be turned to darkness, the moon to blood, and then it says before the day of the Lord comes, the great magnificent day?

Do you think that in that moment he's like addressing what's happened at the cross and kind of making some of those connections, saying, Remember the sky being dark?

Do you remember the I don't know if the moon the moon was turned to blood, or is he how can he speak how can he be using this as like this has been fulfilled, but also hasn't, in the same argument, it feels like an intense uh or like a tight tightrope in a way that I might not get because of the prophecies?

I guess so I see that that hyperlink to Joel a little differently.

Um and it and maybe there's some like cross pictures there, because they that would have been very recent for all those people they would have witnessed that because they were they were in Jerusalem.

It's unlikely that they would have left Jerusalem, gone back home, come back to Jerusalem, especially the people who are really, really far away.

Um but the the Joel prophecy is so interesting, especially in conjunction with the feast of weeks that they're celebrating and all that that the nation of Israel had experienced with uh the Holy Spirit.

So the the importance of the feast of of weeks that they're they're celebrating is that they're giving this like this first fruit, but the the thing they're trying to remember about God specifically is that they live in a land that is very dependent on rainfall, not Egypt, which constantly had a water supply.

And and they draw a lot of um like importance on the fact that they are dependent on God, that he brings rain, that he will sustain them, that he makes the rainfall, and they can they can give their harvest to the Lord knowing that more rain is coming.

Not like in Egypt where there was constant water from the Nile, they have to depend on God for the for the rain.

So the Joel prophecy, if you go to Joel and you read through, I mean Joel's short, but if you read through Joel, there's a lot of harvest grain metaphors and about how if you um turn to the Lord, and there's a verse that I love, it says, Turn to me with all your heart, rend your heart, not your garments.

God wants your heart, God wants your heart, God wants your heart, I will make the rain fall on you, I will bring grain, I will bring a harvest, I will bring all of this stuff.

And at the end he says, It will come in the form of the spirit.

That's what he lays out in Joel.

And the the Israelite people had not experienced any Holy Spirit for years.

The Holy Spirit had been silent since the prophets.

There had been no Holy Spirit revelation through all of the Maccabean revolt.

The Romans have taken over, the Holy Spirit has not talked at all.

They've experienced nothing.

So now at this time, when they're bringing all this grain and it's supposed to represent I will rain down on you, then the Holy Spirit comes.

He's like, Yes, I am now raining down on you.

Rend your heart, give me your heart, Israel.

I want you.

I will rain down on you.

See, it's coming in this giant flood.

Yeah.

And the people, I will that's why I think um Peter references Joel.

He's like, see, it's here now.

The Holy Spirit is flooding in.

That's why I think he says, This is for your um this is for you and your children and for all who are far away.

God is calling you to himself.

And I think that's why they're cut to the heart.

They're like, oh, it's the Holy Spirit's here.

What we've been waiting for all this time is actually here.

Yeah.

Well, and you know, the that's awesome.

Um and that whole concept of the day of the Lord is always like in in their minds.

A judgment.

It's a judgment, right?

It's it's both a glorious and terrible thing, right?

It's like something which is why it says, but everyone who calls the name of the Lord will be saved, right?

There's there's this and they are in this interesting era of history, they don't realize it yet.

But the same people that are there in J Jerusalem right now, um, they don't realize it, but they are very much on the cusp within you know a generation of Jerusalem being completely destroyed by the Romans.

And so, you know, here you are, and I mean it reads very much like very much like Joel, like, hey, in these last days, right before this day of the Lord, yeah, this will happen, spirits poured out, all of this, and then there's this terrible stuff as well.

And like to your point, this could be referencing what happened to Jesus.

Because there's connections, right?

And that's how the scripture works.

There's all kinds of God's deep enough to layer.

It's not deeply connected.

But there is there is coming this day, very, very short, you know, years from now.

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: But in in doing that, in being baptized and immersed, they are saving themselves from the day of the Lord.

It's all correct, yeah.

It's all happening.

The day of the Lord study would be an interesting study because there I mean, scripturally, there's multiple days of the Lord.

But it's a concept.

It's not just a day.

It's not just this one moment.

It's like the Antichrist is a concept of Yeah.

So there's like a There will be many Antichrists.

There can be multiple days of like the like they would have absolutely described the destruction of Jerusalem as the day of the Lord.

Like that would have fit the criteria for them of what the day of that's a you know, the flood would be a day of the Lord, right?

There's these moments of of judgment, but then there's also salvation.

Well, like there is a there's ultimate there's a final ultimate one, right?

And so, like, where are we at here?

And it's just it's an interesting study, it's an interesting concept.

Um but yeah, yeah, super cool.

I kind of struggle, I don't know if struggle is the right word, but I kind of wrestle with the like Jesus was always the planned thing.

Like in my human brain, that doesn't make sense.

Like God knew that this would be the thing, and like the whole project of like, I'm gonna make Eden and I'm gonna make these people, but in my infinite foreknowledge, I knew that I would have to go there myself.

Why do you think you struggle with that?

I think just because I have a human meat brain that's like I can't imagine like having infinite foreknowledge.

Well, let's be honest.

We've grown up in a time when uh you know the creators of a very like deep television shows clearly don't know the end when they strip the show.

And so the last season is always like And it kind of fizzles out.

It does, yeah.

Right.

You're like, you know, like the last season of Lost back when that was a phenomenon we were watching at the time, you're probably a little young.

No, I watched it.

Did you okay?

Last season of Stranger Things.

Last season of Lot of Things, where it's kind of like, huh.

And it sort of feels like they're just shoehorning things, like, no, no, no, no, this was always and you're like, well, but that doesn't but with Jesus, it isn't that, you know what I mean?

I think what's hard about the it always being Jesus thing is that like we wouldn't set it up that way.

You know what I mean?

Like self-sacrifice and like that's not how any of us would write the story.

But as you read like the just like you're getting ready to give a message on um Abraham and Isaac, and the connections to Jesus in that story are like so many things that it it's it's clear that that is what he's doing.

But yeah, go ahead and you're saying something.

Well, I think and this is a a silly example that maybe can get us a little bit a little closer to it in our brains.

When we set things up for our children to do, like when we set up fun experiences for our kids, and we know like they're gonna mess this up.

Like if I set up a craft for my kids to do when they were little, and I would put out like little things for them to make, and I'd set up a plate and like paint and like a thing for them to do, and I'm like, this is gonna be a disaster, and I will end up mopping this off the floor.

I know ahead of time I'm going to have to do a lot of work ahead of time and a lot of work after for something that's probably not gonna look very good.

Right.

I know it going in.

Right.

But I still do it.

Right.

Because that, you know, but you don't go do the craft yourself, like in in their place.

No, no, but I know that there's going to be self-sacrifice of like cleaning my floor and my table might get ruined.

Like, yeah.

Um that's the only thing, that's the only analogy I can even think in my brain that would even get my brain kind of close that I'm going to set it up ahead of time, knowing the disaster will ensue, and yet I find myself doing it anyway.

Well, I don't know.

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It's interesting if you want to look at it from like a historical sense, like the movement of Jesus is either this incredibly planned by God, perfectly timed thing, or it is just a stroke of it's like the biggest fluke ever.

Because, you know, and this is not like lots of people have talked about this.

It's just the simple fact that you know, the timing of Jesus, the Roman Empire, uniting so much of the world under a common language, building roads to all these places.

It's the first time in history that you could have the twelve go in different directions and start a church here and start a church there.

And the movement of Jesus goes from a very contained thing to literally it's the first ever like true cross-cultural.

Yeah, I mean, 3,000 people at in Jerusalem.

You just imagine the impact of the thing.

And then they all go back to where they live.

Yeah.

And then they're telling those stories.

We know where they all live.

Right.

Yeah, all those places.

But but like this is the first time in history that this is even possible.

And from like a human perspective, where there's actually roads that go to these places, and these people speak different languages, but they're also united under a common language.

And there's oh yeah, but I'm just saying, so like either There's also redeeming the Tower of Babel moment here too as well.

The uniting of all the languages.

It's really cool.

Yeah.

That's really cool.

And then we get to this final part, and I'm gonna read it.

Oh, I had more and more question.

Oh, absolutely.

Um Repent and what does this mean?

Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

That means exactly what it says.

What does that mean?

It means that you gotta do it.

Which part?

Do you mean the gift of the Holy Spirit part?

I think the what's the part you're asking?

Well, it's like all that wrapped up into one.

Is this like because the Holy Spirit has shown up in a unique way, like that has not been seen before, that those of you that repent and baptized in this moment are going to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in a unique way?

Or is this a like for all time at baptism, the Holy Spirit happens?

This is like a and I know that there are different, like we'll see throughout Acts, there's moments where it's like they were baptized, but they didn't receive the Holy Spirit, or they received the Holy Spirit, but they weren't baptized.

And so there's like Cornelius' home is going to speak in tongues before they've been baptized.

So there's like a send send John up there to go fix that.

It's kind of like go pray, lay hands on them so that they can receive or go baptize them.

Um but normative, like what is this a normative thing?

Do I have the Holy Spirit at the moment of baptism?

Is that a regenerative moment, spiritually speaking?

As my bosses and pastors would need to know.

I mean, yes.

So I think there's a difference between the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit.

Does that make sense?

Like, you're gonna have to unpack that.

Okay.

I know I know you, so I know what you're saying.

Right.

So there is the gift of the Holy Spirit, meaning that the Holy Spirit's presence is with you, and we're told in Scripture that this is like a guarantee of your future inheritance, that you have the Spirit.

Aaron Ross Powell Like God's spirit joins with your spirit.

And then there's the gifts of the spirit, or we might call those spiritual gifts.

Which is uh hinted at in the Joel thing where it's like they'll dream dreams, they'll see visions, they'll prophesy.

Correct.

And so, you know, I'll give you my my personal kind of story of it.

And I think Megan, you have this this too.

Like I gave my life to Jesus at uh 10, 12?

Hold on.

You sure?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How old are you?

No, no, I was 10 years old when I was.

So you probably got saved at 10, 12, 14, every every even year.

Well, you gotta keep repenting of your sins, you know.

Well you still do, but you don't ever have to get saved again.

No, it's just church camps.

Yeah.

You know.

But uh no, no, I was about 10 years old, and then I got baptized when I was 12.

Um I didn't have any concept in the church I grew up in of really I did like the Holy Spirit I read the Bible, but it was not a church that emphasized the Holy Spirit or spiritual gifts at all.

Just wasn't.

Um and so it's funny, I grew up in a city where the it's the headquarters of the Assembly of God.

It's Springfield, Missouri.

And the Assembly of God is one of the more charismatic denominations in the country and big on spiritual gifts and healing and speaking in tongues and all those things.

Well, I didn't know this because you don't you don't know these dynamics.

So I ended up getting invited and going for the first time to a Southern Baptist church in Springfield, Missouri.

And I think looking back, I go, oh, the Southern Baptist churches there in the Mecca of you know, the assemblies of God were even more careful about that stuff because they're living in the, you know what I'm saying?

So then I would get invited to my friends' churches, and it seemed like it was like, what is going on?

And it was total like two totally different worlds, even though churches across the street kind of thing.

Um, so I just didn't grow up being taught about spiritual gifts, really.

You know, I read it in the Bible occasionally, but it wasn't an emphasis in church.

But I did have the Holy Spirit.

Like I can look back to moments in my life where there was something different.

There was um there was an awareness of God, maybe there was a presence of God.

Did you have gifts of the Holy Spirit when you were young?

So let me think through that.

Um and articulate those, because we we think of tongues and dreams.

Dreaming dreams, um healing.

I don't know, like any of the any of the things.

Did you ever experience that as a young child?

No.

Uh no, not not really as a young child.

What I'm saying is I I did have a an awareness.

You talked a lot, maybe.

I didn't know.

I was born talking.

Um I had I had an awareness of I'm just saying that here's my point.

I was getting to something.

So I never had any of those like what I would consider supernatural gifts.

Yeah, and the stuff that's like whoa.

I never had any of those like whoa things, right?

Yeah, maybe I was maybe I had a gift for talking and I could talk about God and all that kind of stuff and whatnot.

But I definitely had, for me, I think I had a heightened conscience where my own sin really bothered me, even in like middle school, which kept me from ever being able to just fully go.

Like I I went to middle school, I wanted to fit in, you know, did things that I shouldn't have done to fit in.

But then always something inside of me was like, this is not good.

This is, you know, I never could go full bore into that because there was something inside of me.

It's the Holy Spirit, right?

I had all these things.

Well, then in my early 20s, I had a God dream.

You know, that's the language we use here, is like I had a dream, you know, just like it's talking about, that was clearly from God.

Um, I had not yet experienced what some people might call the baptism of the Holy Spirit or um like speaking in tongues and things like that.

I have had that experience.

I have.

So I've just yeah, a lot of times when people talk about the baptism of the Holy Spirit, they're only talking about tongues.

Correct.

But that was so it's like I got saved, I got baptized, I didn't really have the language for it, but I definitely had, I could, I can look back in my life and be like, yeah, God was working on me.

There were things in my heart, there were things, an awareness of God, a draw I felt drawn to God.

You know what I mean?

Um and then I had experiences where I had a dream, and God, it was a dream from the Lord, and like that was confirmed with some really cool things and some people and events that happened that it was preparing me for.

It was like clearly a God dream.

No one can convince me otherwise.

And then maybe a year, year and a half later, I had a moment in the student center here or building where I was praying and just something kind of came over me, and it was the Holy Spirit, and I just had like a different experience with God.

And I, you know, this is not the praying in I didn't start speaking Spanish.

This would have been like a more well, maybe if a Spanish speaker was in there, that could be a good thing.

Maybe I don't think so.

Because I could I could write it out for you.

And so it was like speaking in in quote unquote tongues, prayer language.

This is a whole other caveat.

We're gonna get into this a lot in Acts.

Right.

And even to this day, I'm like, was that cra am I just nuts?

Is it crazy?

Is it, you know, because there's part of me, kind of like you, that's also um well, maybe not kind of like you won't speak for you.

There's part of me that is resistant to that stuff because some of the most annoying people I've ever met in my life are the most passionate people about these things.

I'm just gonna be honest.

Like, there's people I'm like, well, and it's funny that you would see that you see the speaking in tongues moment as like this a distinctly different Holy Spirit moment than the the dream moment.

Well, I think the reason why is so the dream moment, I had a dream and I came here to church the next day.

I worked here, and I told uh, I think I remembered it, and I I just happened to mention I had the weirdest dream last night.

And Susan, who was you know one of our founders, she was like, tell me about it.

And I told her about the dream, and she's like, that was a god dream.

And I was like, It was?

Right.

And she's like, and I think I know what it means.

And then it ended up proved.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I didn't in that I didn't wake up from the dream and be like, something happened.

You know what I mean?

It wasn't like that.

Um, but the the moment in the student center, it did feel like something.

He was like speaking to you.

Something happened.

It was different than something I'd experienced before.

But this is years after.

I mean, I was probably 24, 25.

I got saved at 10, I got baptized at 12.

Part of it for me is that God's timeline can look a little different.

Maybe there is a typical order of things.

Um, maybe, honestly, man, maybe I would have experienced it more if I had been more faithful to God in seasons of my life where I was, I don't know.

I don't know.

But he's been really faithful and he's met me at different times in different places.

And maybe it's like a meal and it's like, here's the next course.

Yeah, here's the next one.

And I think there's there's gotta be, there's never a moment, at least I don't think so, for someone's life where it's like, and God's done with you now.

There's not more for you now.

And so whatever some some of us might have more, more ahead of us.

When did you get saved and baptized?

Uh I was so I had some like weird Holy Spirit like uh uh what I would call like unhealthy church experiences when I was a kid that were like forcing some of that stuff on me.

But I got saved as a teenager, probably in like an official way, but I always kind of believed.

Do you know like what random like what age?

14, probably.

Because I mean Megan and I knew you when you were a kid, and we become- I mean, we sensed something in you that God was doing something in you even at a really young age.

Right.

Like we would be like, Definitely was calling me.

Right.

You know, like, or had had lined things up for me.

So maybe it's that there's a there's a sort of the usual order.

But God is He can do it a lot of different ways.

But I do think there is what we do see here is this.

First, you you s you repent, right?

There's a surrender to God, there's a recognition that He is holy, I'm not, and I need to lower myself to Him.

Not in some groveling way, necessarily, it can be, but in just a uh there's a surrender moment.

That's repentance.

Which is like a it is like a taking off a I'm I'm not the king in this situation.

This is and I think that's really what it is like surrendering that like you could do it your own way and see how that works for you.

But this is a taking off your crown and giving it to him.

So Lord, I I need you.

There's that, there's there's being baptized, that's in a so.

Obedience, right?

And obedience to what Jesus has asked us to do.

That's important.

It's like in a make it official kind of way.

Yeah, and Peter, Peter had the keys to the kingdom, so he could have said anything in this moment, but this is like what Jesus has asked us to do.

Like it could have been like that the church gets established.

It's like, well, it's complicated to baptize 3,000 people right now, but they figure out a way to And in all this the repentance, the turning to God, which is repent means turn, be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins.

There's a recognition that I'm not just being baptized to like because I love Jesus, I'm being baptized for the forgiveness.

I'm recognizing that my sins need to be dealt with, and Jesus has dealt with those.

And when you do that and you're cleared, you know, there, it's like the Holy Spirit is.

I do believe that every person who gives their life to Jesus has the Holy Spirit, has the deposit of the Holy Spirit.

Now, to what degree that can grow, that can be like experienced in different manners and ways.

I I can't map it out, but I know I've experienced it in different ways in different moments.

Do you think sorry, I know I'm derailing this conversation again.

Go ahead.

I just have one thing to add because I I think that when the Holy Spirit came is really purposeful.

I think the things that Peter said was really obviously very purposeful.

So the way that people have experienced the Holy Spirit is similar but different.

And one of the things about the whole the whole day that they were experiencing and that whole festival, it has to do with rain and and not being able to control the rain.

And something about that experience and even this verse you know, repent, be baptized, and you'll experience the Holy Spirit.

And people trying to take that verse and be like, this is how this happens.

Like you have to do it this way.

And like, don't you can't the whole day is about it not being formulaic and having to trust that God will bring the rain when he brings the rain.

And there's Which is what they were doing.

They were waiting, they're waiting in Jerusalem for this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um and there's this part of Joel where it says, Um, do not fear, O land, be glad and rejoice.

For Adonai, which means Lord, has done great things.

Do not be afraid, beasts of the field, for the desert pastures have sprouted, the tree bears its fruit, fig tree and vine yield their strength.

So be glad, children of Zion, and rejoice in Adonai your God.

He gives you early rain for prosperity.

Yes, he brings down rain for you, the early and latter rain as before.

The threshing floors will be full of grain, and bats will overflow with new wine and fresh oil.

And it goes on to talk about the rain falling early and late, early and late.

And it's like, I think sometimes people have the Holy Spirit in different doses at different times, or it falls in certain ways one time, and then you get it later at other times.

And it's it's like the rain falling.

And I heard actually Beth Moore said this one time.

And she was talking about this.

And Beth Moore is a woman preacher.

Clutch your pearls.

Oh no.

Um she was actually talking about this later passage in Joel that um um Peter is preaching on about the Holy Spirit falling um and um falling out, pouring out on all flesh.

And her quote, and I won't ever forget it, she said, if the Holy Spirit is gonna rain down, I don't know when that will happen for me, but I want to make sure I'm looking up.

And it stuck with me in that I always think there's more of the Holy Spirit to be had, and there's early rain and there's latter rain, and if there's more rain to be had, I just want my face up.

Like I don't want to be walking around with an umbrella.

Yeah.

So it's good.

Um if you want more of it, just keep your head up.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How's that for you?

That's great.

Yeah.

That's how I've experienced the Holy Spirit.

Early later.

Megan went all woman preacher there.

Sorry.

Well, we we had this conversation at camp last year with a bunch of the students where I could tell there was kind of an emotional moment happening, not necessarily a Holy Spirit moment.

And they can get confused.

It's easy to and I think that's what you probably it's easy to try to manufacture spirit moments in just highly emotional things.

And so we talked about it, and there's some kids that are like, I need to get baptized.

And so I was hearing that a lot, and I was not uh skeptical of that, but I just encouraged them.

I said, you know, that baptism, sometimes we start to see fruit in our life, and we experience more of the Holy Spirit, and we go, maybe this is the moment that I'm finally a Christian.

Or it's like maybe it's the time I got the dream or the time I had this experience.

And I think to just have that reminder that like if the tree is the metaphor, the fruit tree is the metaphor, it's like, when is the tree the tree?

It's like the tree is a tree when it's a sapling, when it's like a seed, when it's a seed, when it's a seed.

Yeah.

And so it's like once it's germinated, it's like that it's woken up and now it's gonna, it's gonna grow as it grows according to the rain, according to the soil.

And so don't see the moment that you have fruit in your life as this like, oh, I guess I wasn't a Christian until I wasn't a fruit tree until I had apples on it.

It's like there's a journey there, and um that baptism moment is the seed germinating.

It's not necessarily like grows instantly, all of a sudden bears fruit.

That's awesome.

I don't want to just gloss over this last part, but we gotta wrap up.

Yeah.

Um sorry.

Why are you apologizing?

I don't know.

Okay.

Yeah, that's good.

Um so it just talks about how they a deep sense of awe came over all of them, right?

They sold their property, everything they had.

Uh they shared all of it together with those in need with each other.

They worshiped at the temple every day.

They met in homes for Lord's Supper, they ate meals together, they gave with generosity, praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people.

And I think there's just a pattern here we see like first you experience God, then you believe in God, and then you live differently.

And this is a good challenge, too, is because I know that I'm often tempted and fail miserably at just kind of living like the rest of the world, being just as consumed with politics or just as concerned about money or just as worried about this or that, or just as busy, just as focused on earthly things.

But something happened in these people and they started to live very, very differently.

And they loved each other and they spent time with each other.

There was generosity and joy, there was sharing, there was selflessness, and that's just a really good reminder, too, that that's that's what this is supposed to look like.

So Yeah.

Yeah.

So cool.

Acts too.

Go go do that.

Go do that.

There you go.

Go do that.

Yeah.

Go have go share some some love and joy with some people that that also know the Lord and worship with them.

And um or to have a moment with God that does change your life in a way that's where other people are are the benefit of.

I think that's great.

Acts chapter two.

See you guys next time for Acts chapter three.

Okay.

We're not calling it BS.

They're not gonna call it BS.

Okay, I won't I won't make that a joke again.

You will.

Probably.

All right.