Simon the Sorcerer, Teleportation & Quick Baptisms – Acts 8

And welcome back to the Bible study podcast.

We Hey, whoa, you're wearing the same hat random you're wearing last week.

Yeah, as last week.

Yeah, we coordinated with the blue.

Same hat and everything.

Yeah, no, we're doing two in a day because we were gonna film one last week and we missed it, and we're not gonna be able to film one.

Can't film next week because this door will be blocked.

Unless we stay here.

Until they block the door.

Before it.

We can film the rest of the all the time.

Oh, we just live here, Zach.

The three of us, four straight days.

Five.

How many days would we have to do it?

Many, many straight days.

We live here.

Let's we film the whole thing.

It's like a reality show that we put in.

The most pointless.

No, okay.

So we we have an event that happens at the church every twice a year where they use the entire hallway and all that, and they literally like block off access to this room.

So we're filming.

We're batching them together.

And that's why if you're watching the YouTube version of this, we are once again dressed the same.

In slightly different shades of blue, which is pretty normal.

We're on Acts chapter 8 as we go through the book of Acts.

Acts 8 · chapter mention

Another long chapter.

Is it really?

Yeah.

I'm gonna scroll through.

All the chapters feel long.

I don't think it's that long.

It's pretty long.

It's 40.

We were at 60 last week.

That's true.

And some of it is that like uh yeah, it's pretty long.

Um this one's a little bit more broken up, so I think this will be it is.

We have some different uh different stories happening here.

And so you left us last week with the cliffhanger with the cliffhanger.

Verse one, go for it.

And Saul approved of his execution, his being Stephen's execution.

And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him.

But Saul was ravaging the church and entering house after house, he dragged off men and women and committed them to prison.

So here we have Saul, we get a quick introduction of him last time.

They laid their coats at Saul's feet, which I haven't read about this in a while, but I do remember reading somewhere at some point that that was a sign of there that there's there's significance there.

It's like a you're like a leadership sort of a we're we're we're we're charging you with this.

Like the one that it lays at the feet of is the one like holding you responsible for this.

You're the yeah, there's something there's there's some I need to go back and research that, but there's some significance that from chapter seven.

Um it's just been a minute.

And so, but either way, Saul, he that moment, he is now leading the charge against the persecution of the church.

And the first thing that happens is they're scattered, right?

Which is gonna prove to be the best thing.

You're like, everything they try to do to stop the church is like, well, now you just spread it everywhere.

Well, now it's it's uh you know a culmination of what Jesus said would actually happen.

Right.

He said, you know, first Jerusalem, then Judea and Samaria, then the ends of the earth.

Yeah.

And so it's like this really dark, you know, we have chapters, but the the original author, Luke, wouldn't have broken these up as chapters.

But we get this idea of like, here's this extremely dark moment, but then there's this hopeful callback to what Jesus said.

Yep.

They're scattered throughout Judea and Samaria.

See what's see what's happening, like the you know, the seed that's planted by Stephen's martyrdom is gonna bloom into something.

Yeah, and that's even it's important.

Remember, so far, because I I said this last episode, but but really I had I said it too broadly.

So I said so far it's only in Israel.

Actually, up to this point, it's just in Jerusalem.

Yeah.

It's a citywide thing.

So we're going city, region, country, and then it's gonna go way beyond that.

All right.

Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word.

Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed them to Christ.

I got it.

I can read.

You got this.

I believe in you, Madison.

Proclaimed to them the Christ.

And the crowds were with one accord paid attention.

Oh.

Madison, I can I take this?

You got it.

Can I go a new living translation for a second?

But the believers who were scattered preached the good news about Jesus wherever they went.

Philip, for example, went to the city of Samaria and told the people there about the Messiah.

Crowds listened intently to Philip because they were eager to hear his message and see the miraculous signs he did.

Many evil spirits were cast out, screaming as they left their victims, and many who had been paralyzed or lame were healed, so there was great joy in that city.

So here we go again.

We have the preaching of the word, the good news of Jesus, and we have healings, casting out spirits, wonders that are accompanying that.

And so everyone is like, wow, something is happening.

Verse 9, I'll just read that you did all of it last time.

You go for it.

There we go.

I'll give you a break.

A man named Simon had been a sorcerer there for many years, amazing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great.

Everyone from the least to the greatest often spoke of him as the great one, the power of God.

They listened closely to him because for a long time he had astounded them with his magic.

But now the people believed Philip's message of good news concerning the kingdom of God and the man named in the name of Jesus Christ.

As a result, many men and women were baptized.

Then Simon himself believed and was baptized.

He began following Philip wherever he went, and he was amazed by the signs and great miracles Philip performed.

When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that the people in Samaria had accepted God's message, they sent Peter and John there.

As soon as they arrived, they prayed that these new believers would receive the Holy Spirit.

And the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, for they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers and they received the Holy Spirit.

When Simon saw that the Spirit was given, when the apostles laid their hands on people, he offered them money to buy this power.

Let me have this power too, he exclaimed, so that when I lay my hands on people, they'll receive the Holy Spirit.

But Peter replied, May your money be destroyed with you.

Peter, so gentle, uh, for thinking God's gift can be bought.

You have no part in this, for your heart is not right with God.

Repent of your wickedness and pray to the Lord, perhaps you'll forgive your evil thoughts, for I can see that you're full of bitter jealousy and are held captive by sin.

Pray to the Lord for me, Simon exclaimed, that these terrible things you said won't happen.

After testifying and preaching uh the word of the Lord in Samaria, Peter and John returned to Jerusalem, and they stopped uh in many Samaritan villages along the way to preach the good news.

So we'll stop there.

So, you know, Simon's kind of regarded in church history as kind of like an evil dude.

Like there's this association, but he seems pretty repentant here.

Like he tries to buy the Holy Spirit.

Is he the one?

Is he the one you named your child after?

No, he's this character.

We've got a couple Simons.

There are other Simons, yeah.

Yeah, a couple other Simons.

Like the Simon that eventually becomes called Peter.

Peter.

Yeah.

I'm teasing.

There's also Simeon, who's a similar name from the temple that sees Jesus.

I always think of them too.

That's cool.

Um But he's like, let me buy this power.

And there's even like a sin in the Catholic Church called Simony that is about like trying to purchase the power of the Holy Spirit or like using money to get things that come from God, sort of thing.

And so I don't understand.

It's kind of like Thomas.

Like we call him doubting Thomas now.

It's like, well, yeah, like that moment of like he still followed Jesus and was like an apostle.

And he's a pretty important guy, and he ended up being martyred for his faith too.

And like I I think uh I think the church tradition is that he goes to India.

I don't know.

I think Thomas is India.

But either way.

But this Simon the magician ends up, you know, saying, like, oh, please, I don't want that to happen to me.

Right.

So is that cowardice?

Is that cowardice or is that repentance?

Or is there not enough information for us to I don't know, there's enough information.

I mean, obviously there's probably more there's some reading between the lines, perhaps.

Because you can go, I mean I mean, I even commented on it like, Peter.

Right.

You know, he's just he's just gentle rebuke here, like, hey, actually, it's not the way this works.

Yeah.

You know, Girl, get out of here.

But there's probably more going on there.

Um, you know, here you have a man who was prominent in the community.

People were amazed by him.

Something else shows up more amazing, such that he's amazed by it and gets baptized.

And then he wants the power of the which we have to have a different conversation about laying on of hands and the Holy Spirit, uh, receiving the Holy Spirit, all that kind of stuff.

Um and Peter is like, Nope, not how this works.

Repent, or you're gonna be in big trouble.

And he he does.

Yeah.

I I think it seems like he repents.

Yeah.

He at least Because there's a call to repent and then he prays.

And he prays, please pray this won't happen for me.

Um I I guess for me, here's what I would the most obvious parallel I can make with this, in my experience in church life, is people who want to use the the movement of Jesus, which sometimes we just call the church, for the fulfillment of selfish desires.

And and it's an inter it can be a fine line.

Like I've I've used this uh phraseology with people before, like it can't become indulgent.

So I like to be funny.

I I love to be funny.

I was a class clown in school, and that was indulgence.

When I was making jokes all through my time in in school as a kid, it was never to enhance the teacher's right.

There was less generosity there.

There was no like, hey, I it was to distract, it was to get attention upon myself.

It was indulgent.

It was never like to help the lesson lane back.

Oh, I can tell that the class is kind of bummed right now.

They're struggling to get this math concept.

But if you, you know, they're like, I get it now.

And I but I enjoyed, I genuinely, selfishly enjoyed the feeling of people laughing at something that I did.

I love that.

It was just it was great.

Um, and this continued all through school, even kind of into college.

Like I wasn't a class clown in like an uh immature way, but I would occasionally I'd get a chuckle on you know what I mean, and professors were probably, huh, you know what I mean?

There's a little bit of that.

So when I'm on stage now, I use humor all the time as but and I've had to really wrestle with this.

Am I being indulgent?

Right.

And I have to search my heart and go, I'm not, and I can say with a clear conscience, there have been a few moments that I have met, that I've I've actually had a few moments where I've already stage being like, I was wrong in that moment.

I was just being funny for the sake of being funny, and that wasn't good.

And I've and I've I've felt it, like I almost grieved as I walked off.

Not like I was like, oh, I really, you know, I've had some rough moments with the Lord there.

Um, but but by and large, it's like, no, I I use humor to assist in the delivery of a message to help it land and help it connect and and all that.

It can't be indulgent.

And I've known a lot of people in music who wanted to be rock stars, didn't work out, but you can be a rock star on the worship team and it kind of satisfies that itch.

I've known people, we've known people that wanted to be like theological theologian, you know, I'll use church as my this finally I have an audience that I can teach.

And it just can't be indulgent.

It can't be about you.

Right.

That's just the reality.

It can't be about you.

To be about God can't be about you.

And what Peter is saying to Simon here, what Simon says to Simon is uh, you can't make this about you.

You can't purchase it, you can't buy it, you can't use it.

This is not to be used, this is a move of God, and how dare you try to use it in an indulgent way?

That ultimately, do you do you feel like they, you know, there's a question I have about like what what's happening here when they're casting out healing and doing all that?

Is that like something that the disciples did to the day of their death?

Like until there were no demons left, I guess.

But you know what I mean?

Like, is that like we get these early stories of the church kind of kicking off, and they seem to have a sense that it's like, yeah, this is like this is the the Lord working through me, but we have this confident ability to be like, you know, silver, I have none.

But what I do give you is in the name of the Holy Spirit be healed.

Yeah, yeah.

And so it's a very interesting thing.

Well, it's a yeah.

So you look at like the Catholic Church, for example, and we're not Catholic, and I'm not pretending to be an expert on Catholicism, so I'm probably gonna get this wrong.

But my understanding from movies Godfather, the exorcist, Conclave, and the Exorcist.

Right.

My understanding is, and from the show Lost, you know, there was a that's yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

Uh Mr.

Echo.

Have you seen Conclave?

No.

I love Conclave.

Is it a show?

It's a movie.

Oh, okay.

It's got Stanley Tucci.

He's like a they're like trying to choose the next Pope or something.

He's a good actor.

I'll uh so from my deep experience with the Catholic Church's portrayal and pop culture, it seems like there's been a ministry of exorcism, which there's a biblical precedent for.

Right.

It's easy to look at that and be like, what a bunch of kooks they're going into houses and like trying to but like there, there's deliverance in the the charismatic church world, it's called deliverance ministry, and in everything in between, there's just not called anything.

Right.

So you got Catholicism, exorcism, charismatic, Protestant deliverance, and everybody in the middle prayer.

Prayer.

Call it prayer.

Um yeah, I mean, I don't know.

There is a clear concentration at this point in time of signs, wonders, miracles.

I have read very cynical biblical commentators who um and some I would say really uh uh intelligent, useful biblical commentators, especially when it comes to history and whatnot, but when it comes to the miraculous, uh I've heard some that would say, Look, look, these people didn't have demons.

They were superstitious.

They they were in a ridiculously superstitious world, which means they would have believed they had demons.

Right.

They would have been raised to believe if you had, I don't know, if you're a little twitchy, you have a demon.

And so they needed to believe that the demon had left them in order to believe they were healed.

So it's like, I don't think that's the case.

Yeah.

Because Jesus doesn't interact.

I don't see Jesus playing along.

Right.

He was very comfortable correcting people and being like, you guys are totally wrong about that.

This is one that only the Holy Spirit can handle.

Right.

Actually, I'm gonna be talking to this demonstration.

He talks to what's your name?

So there's there, there's demonic, and I I do I I've only got one experience I've ever had with someone where I walked away and was like, I'm very convinced that person had an evil something afflicting them that was beyond just they've got issues.

Right.

But we also live in a world that has labels for a million and a half things and like psychosis to what I I don't know.

I don't know.

But for me, it's anyone that like um has cereal with water instead of milk.

Yeah, there's a lot of people that do that.

I've never heard of this before.

Right.

It's a it's demonic.

That's a first sign.

To your lucky charms.

Have you ever eaten lucky charms with water?

You're a demon.

Um no, but there there is a um there's a heavy concentration of this.

It is one of the things that casting out demons, laying on of hands, healings, Holy Spirit.

And so is that what they're saying when they didn't receive the Holy Spirit, that they didn't have that power that Simon is latching on to, this like healing power by the Holy Spirit, or they didn't have the Holy Spirit at all.

Well, it says Because they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Okay, so this is where the book of Acts Messes with your brain a little bit.

But well, and because we don't see this ever get worked out with like diagrams later in the Bible.

Right.

It's not like, hey, let me explain to you guys Diagrams.

The process, you know, in which this works.

Isn't it so awesome?

Have a Trinity diagram, like a Holy Spirit diagram.

Someone unearths an ancient manuscript, and it's like all the diagrams.

Yeah.

Those went up in the fire of Alexandria.

Alexandria, who knows what we lost.

We lost all the diagrams.

Um there, it's very typical in the book of Acts that there is there is the belief in Jesus, there's the there's the baptism of John, okay, which is what Jesus would have done with the disciples, right?

They were baptized by John the Baptist.

Right.

And that sometimes is called the baptism of John.

This is a baptism of repentance.

A water baptism of repentance.

Getting ready for what John's prepping you for.

Correct.

There's the baptism of Jesus, which is people being baptized in the name of Jesus.

Right.

Jesus was not baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Right.

Right.

And even when he gets baptized, he has nothing to repent for.

Yeah.

And John the Baptist knows this.

He's like, I you should be baptizing me.

He's like, just I This is how it's gotta be.

It's gotta be, man.

I I'm doing this, you know, to obey my Father.

So, and then there's the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is treated in the book of Acts often as a separate experience.

Where a distinct, separate experience where it's not water that's involved, it is often the laying on of hands of I would say empowered leaders in the church who lay hands upon and then people receive the Holy Spirit.

And that is often accompanied with certain things, oftentimes in the new in the book of Acts, speaking in tongues, which, depending on how you are taught to interpret that, can be speaking in another language or speaking in a what is uh like a language you do not understand, and it is not a language of this earth.

It is almost like a spiritual language between you and God, and someone might hear it and think it's gibberish, but the reality is it's like your spirit is speaking a language your brain doesn't know and all that kind of stuff.

So people call that now prayer languages or there's and it and then gosh, 2,000 years later.

No one's really figured it out.

No one's figured it out.

Some no one draw, and if they did draw a dragon, it'd be a spaghetti monster, you know.

Because there's other times that we're gonna read where people speak in tongues and receive the Holy Spirit before they've been baptized, it appears.

Like there's there's the order doesn't always hold.

Um and there's another place, I believe it's Paul, who says, is this an axe or is this actually one of the letters of Paul?

We'll find out if it's an axe, I guess.

I just wasn't, where he's like, When I heard you hadn't we sent these people to you when we heard you hadn't received the Holy Spirit yet.

You'd only been baptized in the bathroom.

That's what's happening here.

Right.

But they actually say that.

And they don't um they don't speak in tongues here.

They don't.

We don't have that, but they receive the the Holy Spirit.

Right.

And so which to me seems like the the accompanying sign is some sort of healing power because that's when Simon saw the Spirit, was given through the laying on of hands, and he offered them money.

So it's like he sees this, give me this power, I want this power too.

Yeah, there's some there's some change, there's something a little different, at the very least, right?

We're not gonna always see it be healing.

There are other times we're gonna see it be manifest in a different way, but it appears to manifest in a way that's somewhat obvious.

And now we live in a world where you have whole denominations that take this and go way into this, like in the more charismatic world.

I'm not knocking the charismatic, but they're they're gonna take this and I mean, I had a friend growing up in college that who's a pastor now, or he was a pastor for a long time in Michigan, he's not anymore, but it wasn't like a moral field, he just was a pastor for a long season and now he's doing something different.

Um, but he was Pentecostal, uh Assembly of God.

He went to an Assembly of God college, and he would say, He I remember him walking me through this because I grew up Southern Baptist and we did not lay on of hands.

We didn't, the only time we mentioned the Holy Spirit was in baptism, and there really wasn't a lot of there was really no ministry of healing, there's not none of that stuff, right?

I mean, you pray that God, you knew God could heal someone, you pray, God, if it's your will, that kind of stuff.

There was no, we're putting our hands on this person and praying for them until something happens.

That didn't happen.

So I remember like I didn't really have a context for that.

My only context for it, honestly, was kind of being annoyed by some people who are really gung-ho about that, to be honest.

And he told me, he laid it out for me as this, he's like, hey, there's always in the Bible a physical sign that accompanies a covenant.

So the covenant God makes with Noah, there's the physical sign of a rainbow.

The covenant he makes with Abraham is circumcision.

Now we're in the new covenant.

What's the physical sign that accompanies the new covenant?

And he would say, There's always a physical sign that accompanies.

And he wouldn't say baptism.

He would have said is that.

He would have actually said speaking in tongues.

Okay, gotcha.

Is the he would have said that.

Um because there were people baptized before.

Right.

It was like a repentance baptism.

I would say baptism.

But point is that's that was his argument, and his argument had biblical precedent.

So it was like I had to kind of that's the first time when I was in college.

I was like, huh.

I've never heard it explained in those terms, you know.

Um but there does seem to be a distinct experience where someone can receive the Holy Spirit in a way that is obvious, that is that has not yet happened, even though they have been, they've put their faith in Jesus and been baptized.

Well, I guess maybe that maybe now let me clarify.

Are you saying that so like they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, but not the Holy Spirit?

Like nowadays we say Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Yeah.

Is that well, it just says the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them.

Right.

For they had only been baptized in the name of Jesus.

And I don't I don't know.

I don't and this is where Francis Chan has a great message about this, by the way.

And I have to up to the time of me saying this, I'm not aware of any Francis Chan controversies or blah, blah, blah.

Did we say this last time?

Every time I mention a a well known pastor, I have to say that because you never know if five years later.

Francis Chan seems super legit.

I I don't expect there to be, but like I would have said that of Robbie Zacharias and Francis Chan.

I don't Because if this is five years ago, oh, he said, I don't up to the time of this recording, there is no knowledge of a major Francis Chan scandal in the world.

But he said one time, he's like, I I I I wish I could diagram it for you, but he's like, sometimes the Holy Spirit comes upon you, He works within you, He's uh you know, it's like it's just up it's all which ways.

It's it's very challenging to put this in a box, which is what has led to one branch of theology being called dispensationalism, which would say this was only for a certain time and a certain group of people.

So a dispensationalist would believe, yes, this all happened, this was real, but it was for that time.

It was a period of power for the early church to get going with some oomph, but that time has passed, which is why we don't see this happen anymore.

And a charismatic person, you know, Holy Spirit moves every, you know, versus that is a bit a whole bit.

So how would you, as a pastor, have you encountered like I know what you I know the answer of like there's always more, and I I agree with you, but I've never, I don't think I've encountered people who I would say like maybe I'm trying to I'm like playing games around definitions and stuff in my brain, but it's like could you confidently say like they say, like, oh, these people clearly don't have the Holy Spirit?

Like, we don't I don't feel like that's a good idea.

That's why my friend, that's why my friend in college said it was because that's a clear way to say right you do or you don't.

Right.

You know what I mean?

It's hard how how can you tell if someone's been baptized, like when you first meet them?

But how do you know if they're not just making up speaking in tongues?

Correct.

So correct.

And that would be like what Simon did earlier, like a version of that.

Like, I'm just faking it.

Um have you had that encounter where it's like this person's clearly baptized, but I would say they don't have the Holy Spirit.

I know that you would say there's always more of the Holy Spirit and like more to access of God because He has more to give.

He's in He's infinite, so it's like, I hope I haven't experienced all I can of God.

Like, I hope that there's more, and I know that there is, but I don't think I've ever approached someone who I knew to be a Christian and profess faith in Christ and say, well, clearly they don't have the Holy Spirit.

Yeah.

No, I'm the reason I'm I'm not stu I'm not stumbled trying to find the right way to respond.

I mean, I think yeah, I have met people who I believe genuinely believe in Jesus, but it doesn't seem like they they're the way they think, the way they they they respond to people, the way they live, the decisions they make is spirit-led, maybe.

Right.

It's just like something's missing.

Right.

You know what I mean?

And on the inverse of that, I've met people that have seemed to have something I didn't have.

True.

You know what I mean?

And that was a I know if Megan were here, she would talk about Susan when we first started as a church.

Like Susan had something different that Megan, being around Susan a lot, was like, she has something I don't have.

Um I feel that way about like Herb.

You know, being around Herb, there's just like a genuine, you know, I'm I'm still I I want to learn whatever lesson he learned.

And I want the spirit that ever you know what I mean?

Like I feel that same thing.

Well then ask her to lay hands on you and pray for her to receive it.

There's a biblical precedent for that.

Exactly.

What keep what would keep us from doing that though?

That's the other interesting thing, too, is like I think it's an admission.

Yeah.

Or it's like a theologically confusing.

It is confusing.

So I would go, like, does that mean I haven't had this the whole time?

It's like, but I I clearly I've had moments where I would say, no, that's clearly not the case.

Like I know the Holy Spirit's with me.

My wife called out to the name of Jesus before she ever went to church.

And so whether or not she had like a Bible around or whatever it was, it's like she remembers praying to Jesus as a kid, even though she had never been taught to.

Yeah, exactly.

And so it's like, what that's a Holy Spirit thing to me.

That's like that's where it gets again.

Like mixy matching, draw me the diagram.

Yeah.

Um and we're about to see another situation in Acts chapter eight that is a very it's like connected to this like what's the order of things thing.

And so do you want to finish this chapter?

Let's finish this chapter and we'll keep talking.

Okay.

Do you want to read it?

No, go for it.

Okay.

Uh now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, Rise and goes to go toward the south to the road that goes f down from Jerusalem to Gaza.

This is a desert place, and he rose and went.

And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Cantas, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure.

He had come to Jerusalem to worship, and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah.

And the spirit said to Philip, Go over and join his chariot.

So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, Do you understand what what you are reading?

And he said, How can I unless someone guides me?

And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

Now the passage of the scripture that he was reading was this Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter, and like a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opens not his mouth.

In his humiliation justice was denied him.

Who can describe his generation, for his life is taken away from the earth?

And the eunuch said to Philip, About whom I ask you, does the prophet say this?

About himself or about someone else?

Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with his with this scripture he told him the good news about Jesus.

And as they were going along the road, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, See, here's water, what prevents me from being baptized?

And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down to the river, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.

And when he came up out of the water water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing.

But Philip found himself at Azetus, and as he passed through, he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.

Philip has a spiritual gift of teleportation.

Well, you know This is a question I had, because this story is always told.

What if there was a sound effect?

Yeah.

What would it have been?

Oh, I'm making a sticker for that story, and I gotta show it to you.

I'm really I'm really excited about.

Because like, okay, this is the funny so I joke, it's spiritual gift of teleportation.

Yeah.

So there's a there's a famous superhero in the X-Men comics called Nightcrawler, who actually happens to be a believer in the Trevor Burrus.

Right.

But he looks like a demon, correct?

But that's the joke.

That's the whole thing about which can you imagine the luck?

Yeah.

But he teleports.

Yeah.

But as a kid, like there was this video game I had on my Sega Genesis.

It was the X-Men video game.

And uh there's a certain sound effect that it would make if you teleported.

And so every time I think of teleportation, that specific, very like it's a very arched 16-bit sound.

And the Genesis was known for having rough, rough sounds.

And I just it's this very like I just want I'm like, well, maybe maybe.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, there's a this is a crazy story.

But everyone always says that that he also like ran the speed of a chariot.

And it's like he sees him in the middle of the yeah.

That's Elijah.

No, this is the one they say that this too.

Because he says he sees them in the chariot, but people always describe the story as the chariot going along.

And then he's like running next to the chariot.

Oh, it's like that.

Let me join you.

I always feel like the chariot's probably just like going in there.

Or or just going at a nice slow pace.

Or it's like you're one of the things.

You know, I mean, there's like chariots in battle.

Sure.

There's also chariots are like, guys, we're not in a rush.

Yeah, like you see, like I the I was thinking of westerns.

There's like the the stagecoach is just flying.

And there's also the stagecoach where people are walking just as fast as the stagecoach.

That's probably how I read it.

Now it is in Elijah, he does outrun chariots.

Right.

In in that story in uh 1 Kings.

The fire, chariots of fire one?

No, no, no.

It's after, okay, in the story of Elijah, after he uh I believe it's right after the story of the uh the prophet showdown with the prophets of Baal.

Or maybe it's when he brings water back and it rains again.

I think it's that one.

It rains again.

Either way, one of those two.

It says he like books it just and he outruns the chariots.

And he outruns the chariots, which would be a spiritual gift of of exercise.

Or he's just quads.

Or he's just really fast.

No, no, he's definitely a spiritual thing.

So either way, yeah, you've seen it funny.

I yeah, so this one's cool.

So let's talk about this one real quick.

So one of the things I've always connected with this is the swiftness between belief and baptism.

Right.

Right.

Um and I tell people all the time, look, if if you get baptized, I love, look, there's some water.

That's what I have.

He says, Look, there's some water.

Why can't I be baptized?

What's gonna stop me?

And they're like, yeah, no reason to.

So when people ask to be baptized here, we don't go through a giant process to do that.

An approval.

You don't apply to get baptized.

No, I actually had a guy get baptized spontaneously after church a few weeks ago, which doesn't really happen.

Usually we people sign up and get baptized the next week, they want their family to be there, whatever.

Um, but he's like, I need to get baptized today.

And so I just kind of talked to him for a minute or two and figure out where he was, what what's the heart behind this, where are you at?

And he's a believer and he's he needs, and I'm like, all right, let's go, let's go, let's do it.

So, you know, that's I baptism is a starting point, not a finish line.

Yeah.

Um, and that's important because sometimes you're also like probably more than me, pro like re-baptism.

Yeah, I've just only seen people really do it once.

So, like, so this this last Sunday, uh, we had a really sweet woman get baptized.

She was baptized when she was 12.

Right.

Now she is in, I won't say how old she is because I don't know the exact number.

And she's older than me.

She's older than 20.

She's older than 20.

Uh no, she she's older than me.

So she's she, I would say probably in her 50s.

Um and uh she had an incredibly crazy couple of years.

She just had a major uh 10 months ago, she had a heart and liver transplant.

We were with her in the hospital, and she is so grateful to God for what he's done and how she's like an active.

She and and she feels like a totally different person than new heart.

She has a new heart.

Yeah, those that have been an actual new heart.

We don't know if those were not those, yeah, it's true.

We don't know two organs that have never been baptized.

But she feels like such a and it's it's from a place like she feels like such a different person that you know she wants to get baptized, and and I'm fine with that.

I'm fine with that.

Um, but I've never told her you have to.

I've never told someone that you should get rebaptized.

If someone has told me, I've never initiated that with someone, like you ought to get rebaptized.

You know, because I think you can because I've never been.

I got baptized when I was 12 and I've had some major movements in my life, but I haven't felt like I need to do that.

But if if I did, I think I've never seen someone get baptized eight times.

Yeah, I have to.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And I just haven't.

But that's just the high school students.

Okay, yeah.

So high school students maybe.

You've gotten saved a lot of times.

Yeah, I got resaved a couple times.

I was worried.

Um, that was in the uh church camp experience of my growth is like deep conviction.

Are you are you a hundred percent sure exactly you're saved?

I'm like, I'm pretty sure.

Right.

A hundred percent?

I mean, so how are we a hundred percent?

I'm 95% sure.

And then like by the end of the night, I'm like, I'm less sure than I was.

I thought I was, but now I'm not.

Now I want to go better go ahead.

Um so we have quick baptism here.

Let me go back to your your previous question about how what I know is someone doesn't have the Holy Spirit.

When I was first I have had an experience where I felt I would use the term now, I would I would say in my language today, I would say I I I believe that day the Spirit came upon me in a way that he never had before.

Right.

And I've talked to you about this experience.

I was in the student center, I was praying by myself, something happened.

Okay.

Since that time, I I the number one thing I would say that's different about me since that time, and maybe this is all in my head, you know, I don't think it is though, is my ability in my own heart to discern between my flesh and my spirit.

The ability for me, and I would say occasionally in other people, but the ability for me to confidently discern that this is just Justin, that this is the Lord.

Before that, I would I did I struggled with that.

Right.

Meaning, like I remember Susan used to drive me nuts because she'd ask me questions I couldn't answer, and it made me so mad.

Like, but I wanted, you know, well, is this like I'd have an idea for the youth.

I'd be doing something for the youth, like an event or whatever.

She's like, Well, is this do you think this is the spirit?

I'm like, I don't know.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm trying hard.

I'm trying to like grow the whatever.

And she's like, Well, is this what the Lord has has told you to do?

And I just would be so angry because I could I don't think I could ever answer that confidently.

I don't know.

I remember one time he was like, has the Lord called you to it's like that language is like, but there was something different after that experience where I would say today, I'll even talk to you, and and I think I've used this language before like I haven't heard this from God, but I think it will work.

You know what I mean?

I'll use that language because I'm like I'm praying about well, actually, I was thinking about it.

I was thinking about it.

Yeah, I'll say that.

Like I was praying about actually I haven't, I'll be honest, I was just thinking about it.

No, there's sometimes where you think praying, and that's different.

Yeah, yeah.

But my point is, no, there's there's sometimes there's ideas where, or or someone might say something, or as I'm preparing a message where there's a part of it where I go, that was not flesh, that was spirit.

That was not my brain, that was not my intellect, that was not my knowledge, that was spirit.

Great example from this last week.

And I'll I'll use it for my message.

You know, I'd written the message, had a really busy week this last week, knew what the message could be.

Actually, I had to I had to write two messages because Matt was not feeling well and he might have been sick on Sunday, so on Saturday he called me and uh he had a new song that was specifically meant to connect.

Yeah, it was like the so I was like, well, I'll just write a separate.

I know what I'm kind of gonna talk about next week.

So I wrote a lot of message number two, but it's not he told me he was feeling better the next week or feeling he played hurt.

He was great.

Um but as I was prep working through the message, um this just thought just in my mind.

And funny enough, it's what today we had our staff meeting, and it's the very thing that Thomas mentioned and the very thing that Megan was like, that was my favorite part.

Yeah.

And it was this which I agree.

That was a good part.

That good job, God.

Yeah.

That was not, I had notes that I had written.

I don't use notes on stage and whatnot, but I had written out my outline.

I had written out all my because I write every message um, usually on Saturday.

I write it out.

I think about it all week long, I make notes, and then Saturday I'm like, all right, Lord, you've had as much time to speak to me as possible.

Here we go.

Sunday morning.

Uh, I think it was Sunday morning early, or it may have been like right before I fell asleep on Saturday.

I don't know.

Some in that late, late hour kind of thing.

Late hour, early hour, because I get up pretty early on Sundays.

Um, the context of the message was being celebrated by God.

And as a surprise party was kind of the theme I was using, and how most of us would just like hate a surprise party.

Like if you showed up and opened your door today and unbeknownst to you, Hannah invited all your friends over, and it's like you weren't prepared for the party.

It's like crap.

Turned out I kind of liked that.

Yeah.

That happened to me.

Did you have and I enjoyed it?

Well, maybe I've never had that.

Maybe most of us think we'd hate it, but actually you like it.

Maybe it's like how good is the person planning the party at knowing what kind of party you would like to do.

Right, right, right.

And so um, you know, I I instinctively knew that most of the people in the room would say, I don't want I don't want a surprise party.

But right, so I had this all and I was talking about what we need to be comfortable.

Well, it just crossed me like what if that message was asked of children?

You know, how many of you would be excited if a surprise party was threatened for you when you got home?

They'd all be stoked.

They'd all be even the introverts in the room.

It's not an introvert-extrovert thing, it's something something deeper.

Well, that thought just like hit me.

And I knew when it hit me that's the spirit.

Yeah.

And then the the you know, sort of like confirmation of that is that's a small part of my message.

And multiple people are like, when you said that, that was really I've been thinking about that all week long.

I didn't come up with that, and I know I didn't come up with that.

So, since that experience I had with the spirit, I would say, when I was about in my mid to late 20s, I do think the number one difference, even in my own heart, is like, Justin, you're in your flesh.

Yeah.

There's a different ability to discern what's flesh is spirit.

Maybe that's what the disciples had.

When they were talking, people are like, hey, discern it.

Yeah, this isn't spirit.

You need the Holy Spirit.

That same thing happens to me.

I paint a lot, and like the ideas for the painting, I can I can do like the clock in at the at the easel sort of situation where it's like I have to make something.

You can make a good painting.

I can make something out, it'll be fine.

But the difference between the the work that I make and I'm like, oh, this is the this is the culmination of the idea that I feel like God had planted there.

It's a different, it just operates on a different level.

I agree with that.

So I I completely agree.

But good stuff, very good stuff.

I love the Bible.

I do too.

And next week we get the best chapter of the Bible.

I don't know what's the best chapter of the Bible.

Other than Acts chapter 9.

Acts 9 · chapter mention

I'm gonna go to Acts 9.

My brain is the best chapter.

Oh, is this Paul on the road to Damascus?

Yeah.

But then like his conversion and a bunch of and a bunch of cool Paul stuff.

Yeah, yeah, that's a great chapter.

That would be interesting.

Best chapter.

John 3 would be a lot of people like a conversation with Jesus and Nicodemus would be.

Romans 8.

Romans 8.

Whoever says Romans 8 is pretty serious, like Romans 8.

She's like an encapsulation, yeah.

I don't know.

It wasn't written in chapters.

Comment comment below what's the best chapter of the Bible.

Hashtag Bible rank.

Um I do have a couple of Bible like AI ideas that I think would be fun.

Like, well, there's like features on the Bible app that I'd wish I could like sort by most highlighted.

Like I don't think I can get that.

Maybe I can.

I just don't know where the the thing is.

I also want to sort by most red.

Like I'd be interested to see.

Like the Kindle app, which used to be a device, now it's an app, has a feature where it will show you like who has highlighted that.

It will show you, it's not highlighted like if you highlighted it, but it's sort of like, hey, a lot of people highlight us.

And I always end up highlighting whatever other people highlight.

It's like I see it and I'm like, And it tells you well, that is really good.

And I I'll I'll highlight it too.

And so we're all just reinforcing.

Someone was telling me that uh because I write in my books, like I'll write in like a fiction book that I read.

And I was like, I hate it for whoever has to read this book next because it completely ruins the experience.

And they're like, that doesn't ruin the experience, that enhances the experience.

I was like, no, because then you have to think what I thought was important, right?

Is important.

And if you don't, you're like, well, why?

Why why would you?

It'd be funny as a joke to like give someone a Bible and say, like, hey, this was the Bible that I really used the most in my young years, and I I underlined things that really stood and all the things underlined.

It's just like really strange.

Not the things that anyone can actually open up.

Like, huh.

You run under every salon information like here, like life changing, and it's just like I love it.

The directional.

Yeah.

I feel like we're tempted to do another long another long outro.

And so I'm just gonna end it here.

Let's have a whole I'm gonna end it here.

See you guys next time.

All right.