S3 E56: Monasteries & Minotaurs Tour: Exploring Sacred Greece with Casey McFarland

Emilie Call: Welcome back to That's Church. I'm Emily Call here with my sister Ashley Sanders. Some of us from That's Church are partnering with Casey McFarland from Relic Travel to take a trip of a lifetime guided tour to Greece April 7th to the 16th of next year, 2027. This episode is all about that tour. even if you're not planning on coming, it's a fun episode to listen to and just kind of sparks your curiosity and desire to travel. which we absolutely love. This tour group is pretty small and intimate. So we only have two more couple spots. It could also be two friends going together and then one room for a woman that can room with one of our cute friends that's already signed up. there are also some solo spots open within those five available spots. So let us know if you're interested. All of that information and tour itinerary will be linked in the show notes. As well as a really beautiful article that Casey's wife Melanie wrote about Delphi, one of the locations we'll be touring. make sure you read that. It's really inspiring. we will start in Athens where we will learn about Greek religions and their origins, divine feminine figures, and Greek mythology and how that kind of all melts together. We will see Delphi. Where you are bound to ground your spirituality in the nature of a very epic place. Meteora is what you just heard Casey talk a little bit about, a living monastery in the sky built a thousand years ago. it truly looks so magical. And then we will end on the island of Crete. So you'll want to listen to this episode to hear Casey explain all about these adventures. He's really great at at explaining it all and getting us all hyped up. We hope that you can take this magical trip of lifetime with us and enjoy the episode. Casey, we are so happy to have you on. We're so excited about our trip to Greece. Casey is an amazing travel guide, and That's Church is so excited to partner with him unofficially. It's an unofficial That's Church event. but people from that church will be there, myself included, my husband, maybe Ash TBD.

Ash: Maybe. Fingers crossed. Mm-hmm.

Emilie Call: We're really hoping. And of course, Casey. And we have some amazing things coming, like amazing locations that we're going to. So magical and we're so excited. So tell us a little bit about this trip.

casey: Well, yeah, it's going to be incredible. It's next April, but I am leaving in like two or three weeks to lead a tour with Valerie Hammacher and Nathan to Rome and Italy. And then after that, me and my son are going over to the island of Crete in Greece to prep and get ready for, make sure all the stuff is ready for when we take you guys over. Because we are going to be ending the tour on the island of Crete, which is where the Minotaurs and all that stuff. So we're calling this tour the Monastery Monasteries of Minotaurs. Did I tell you that? I just kind of

Emilie Call: No, okay, that's so cool.

casey: hope that that the other day and I was like, that's going to Well, before we did

Emilie Call: That's it. Yep.

Ash: That's it. That's it.

casey: the Southern it in the last year with with the Masons was called. Saints and Superstition

Ash: Yeah. It's gotta have a theme. Mm-hmm.

Emilie Call: And it just has to come, yes. And we're not talk I just was gonna say we're not talking like Freemasons. We're talking Patrick Mason and Melissa Mason. You just said the Masons. Anyway, I love it.

casey: Sorry, I just did a podcast

Ash: Mm-hmm.

casey: episode on Freemasons just like last week.

Emilie Call: My son is on a mission in Georgia and he's like, Mom, have you ever interviewed a Freemason? Like, I would love to listen to that episode. And we actually, my husband and I took a tour at one of their, what is it called? Not a temple, not a church. Lodge. Yes. it was incredible. And he was like, Shut up. I would love to do that tour when I get home from my mission. So anyway, and we have somebody's number we were gonna interview, and that's when we took a break for a little while. So

casey: Yeah, yeah. Well, you guys, it's

Emilie Call: Haven't done it yet, but I'm gonna have to listen to yours.

casey: been a minute since you guys have been rocking and rolling. So this is like we're dusting the, for both of us a little bit, we're dusting the sheets off.

Ash: Well yeah.

Emilie Call: Yep.

casey: But yeah, Greece coming up.

Emilie Call: Good one. Yay.

Ash: Mm.

casey: It's to be amazing. We're starting in Athens. Have you guys been there?

Emilie Call: No, I have been to Greece, but I only went to Santorini and then a little fishing village, which was the cutest thing ever. and we went into the ocean, like we just hung out on the beach, had maybe the most amazing food I've ever had in the world. so fresh, so delicious, like right on the beach, and then kind of went into the little fishing village and the little houses were so cute. And Santorini is just gorgeous and epic. but that's it. I really wanted to go to Athens. I'm so intrigued.

casey: Well, one things that surprised me is we've taken a lot of people who come to our Italy tour and end up going on the Greece tours.

Emilie Call: Hm.

casey: And I'm surprised to find out that a lot of them actually prefer the food in Greece.

Ash: Really? Interesting.

casey: I mean, because Italy is so well known, but there's so much, there's so many carbs in Italy.

Emilie Call: Yeah.

casey: And they don't do really breakfast. This is coffee and like a croissant or something, you know, like a pastry or something. And so people like, we're so protein heavy in the States that everybody's like, where's the protein, you know? And grease is the answer to that because there's so much meat and like... kebabs and souvlaki and euros and all that stuff. it's just, it's, and taunt the salads are just off the charts. Like they just have, we spread the table salads. So food is a very big

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: part of every tour that I do. because I feel like food is one of the best ways to get to know a culture and people, but, and so I really hope people walk

Emilie Call: Absolutely.

casey: away with like a whole different perspective on food than what we

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: I have a lot of people come home and they're like, that trip ruined me for American food. And I

Emilie Call: Ha ha ha.

casey: love American food, don't get me wrong, but just, the people are like, the freshness and all this stuff, it's kind of like,

Emilie Call: Yeah.

casey: it's really an eye opener for a lot of people.

Emilie Call: And the lack of

Ash: Yeah.

Emilie Call: preservatives. And I have my sister-in-law. We travel with my brother and sister-in-law quite a bit. And she is very what is it, Ash?

Ash: Gluten free.

Emilie Call: Gluten-free. What's her disease called though? What's that called? Ciliac. She is, yeah.

Ash: cr celac.

Emilie Call: Okay. My sister-in-law is celiac and she has very major reactions to gluten. But in Europe, she can eat whatever she wants. Like even the heavy carbs.

casey: Yeah, well especially with the France, they have a lot different regulations over

Emilie Call: Yes. It's so much better. I don't know why we can't do that. But it's fine. We're fine.

casey: And I have a lot of

Ash: We'll just have to keep traveling to Europe.

casey: who come to Italy who don't have

Ash: It's fine.

casey: it. Yeah. So let's dig in. Should we talk a little bit about what the tour looks like?

Emilie Call: Yes. What are we doing in Athens?

casey: some philosophy.

Ash: Yes please.

casey: So the first thing I wanted to say is that I kind of have a formula for the way I run our tours because I like to keep things small and nimble. And so we don't, max out at 14 people and that allows us to be able to have to be able to have shuttle shuttles to pick us up. Oftentimes too many vans. In Greece and Athens, we usually have like a mini bus. And it changes everything to be able

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: to just be picked up from one city and go right at your front porch and go to another city. You don't have to deal with parking or any of the things that are such a hassle when you're traveling to Europe. But even when you rent a car in Europe, which I do all the time, and I have like, I've paid like over $1,500 in traffic violations. you can't like people, my shuttle drivers have permits to go to places. We just can't go. Even if you drive a car into a city center, you still have to go find a parking and all this stuff. These guys can go all over the place and it just changes everything. It's really, really convenient. So this tour starts in Athens and we're there for three days and I got us a, the place we're staying in is like right across the street from the Agora, the Antia Agora, which is the marketplace. Have you ever heard the word agoraphobia?

Emilie Call: Mm. Yes.

casey: was like a fear of going out. People have agoraphobia.

Emilie Call: Mm. Our brother was agoraphobic for a while. Yeah.

Ash: Yes, yes. I

casey: Okay. Okay.

Ash: have heard that. Mm-hmm.

casey: It comes from that, like fear of going to the market is what the word comes from. And yeah,

Emilie Call: Mm.

Ash: Interesting.

casey: the thing that I kind of like, the thing about Athens, I think is interesting, you know, there's this whole thing going on about Rome, because I love Rome and I take people that are going there in three weeks and it's amazing. But what people don't realize is that almost probably 90 % of Roman culture, art, philosophy, everything was stolen from the Greeks. The Romans were not very original. They

Ash: Mm-hmm.

casey: just kind of, they just like, you know what, let's just, they have a, they have a God of the sea Poseidon, let's change the name to Neptune. Let's just, let's just copied and pasted and just changed the names to everything.

Ash: That's too funny. my gosh.

casey: And when you walk through Rome, like the Vatican Museum in Rome, to go to the Sistine Chapel, there's just statues and statues and statues. They're all copies of Greek statues.

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: So the Greeks had figured

Ash: Interesting.

casey: out how to do contrapposta and all these different types of statues and art and philosophy. And then they had the Odyssey and the Iliad and whatever. And the Greeks were like, we've to have our own. they just, their poet, Aeneid, who created a... Virgil created the Aeneid, their origin story, so to speak, and it was their poem. And it was basically just a copy and pasted and even mentions some of the Greek stuff. the Romans absolutely adored and loved the Greeks and respected them even as they kind of took over and fought them. so Naples, for example, was a Greek city. was originally called Parthenope because the name one of the sirens that you see in the Odyssey she

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: Washed up on the shores of Naples and so the the Greeks were there long before the the Italians or the Romans in and they call it neopolis which is a Greek name for the new city so the so Naples is very has a very Greek origins and I guess I'm telling you this because they they allowed the people in Naples to continue speaking their own language, the Greek language, because of the respect that the Romans had for the Greeks and their art. And there's this whole time period where they would go in and take boatloads of, they would take boats over to Athens and just pillage and steal all of the art. And they would have like processions going into Rome with just... like mile long processions of like statues and art and stuff that there was stuff. was common for rich people in Rome to have a Greek statue in their garden. So it's

Ash: Wow.

Emilie Call: So so in a under you can

casey: almost hard to understand one Rome and Greece without one or the other. And that's why I've kind of like Greece and Rome, Greece and Italy are my two kind of main places that I take people to because to

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: understanding both of those actually is the foundation for much of what we have in the United States, in government, in democracy, all the different things is based out of those two countries, ancient countries. anyway, so Athens is really extremely,

Ash: Mm, fascinating.

casey: I think, yeah, I think, and it's actually more important, I think, than Rome to go to Athens from that

Emilie Call: Hmm.

casey: perspective. And so, one thing that I think people don't realize, you know, that I might have mentioned when you go to Rome or you go to Italy, like during the Renaissance, they were building these massive, massive churches. In Greece, they weren't because it was ruled by the Ottomans, the Turks. So, and they were Muslim. And so they put like, they suppressed and would not allow any new churches to be built or repaired. So,

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: so they, for 400 years, up until like 1921 or something like that. the Ottoman Empire ruled over Greece, which is why you have a lot of like soup and like kebabs and a lot of the same kind of foods baklava and all this kind of food that you see in Greece. But they you go into Athens, you're like, there's not very, there's no big cathedrals.

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: There's like one that's been built in the like the last 150 years. The rest

Ash: Hmm.

casey: of them are hidden. in little nooks and crannies. They would hide their teeny little churches in these teeny little nooks that we go find. really cool and you have to kind of be looking for them. And so it's a very different vibe than when you go to Rome or Florence or somewhere in Italy or Spain and France. You're like, where's all the big cathedrals? They're just not there. So people

Ash: Mm-hmm.

casey: build churches on their little farmland, their little property. So when you go to And into Naxos or Mykonos or any of these islands, Crete, they have, you'll go to a farm and there'll just be a teeny little shack that has got a cross on it. They would do their little

Ash: my gosh, wow.

casey: services on their own family church.

Ash: That just sounds so like humble and those are sometimes my favorite churches to visit where they're just very simple, plain, and you're like, they weren't going for anything gaudy or extravagant. They just want to be there and connect with

casey: Nor could they. Right.

Ash: the Lord. They just wanna, you know, be together and worship. I that sounds so Yeah, those places are

Emilie Call: Just really genuine and real and quaint.

casey: Yeah, it's really-

Ash: very sacred.

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: It is, and Athens has this really, well, I guess one of the things that because my, you know, you guys know I'm always in paradoxes, a big how my brain works and like a split down the middle of these. Just I see the good and bad on things, this is my brain works. in Athens, there's just this wild tension between the old myth of, you know, the temples of Zeus and. and all these things are dotting all over the Parthenon, the temple of Athena. My necklace just broke, but I have a really cool Athena necklace that's like a... I don't have one, I usually

Ash: I thought it just broke right then. I was like, right then? Run the tape, run it back.

Emilie Call: I know, me too. Just now.

casey: have this Greek, it's an old coin from the 500 BC that has Athena's owl, the wisdom. She was the goddess of strategic warfare and wisdom.

Emilie Call: that's cool.

casey: the Parthenon above is her temple. And that's the temple that the apostle Paul is making reference to when he's on Mars Hill and talking to the unknown God. And so it's all kind of that tension between Christianity and mythology and the modern times, all that stuff is just so in your face in Athens. And I love that tension. Right

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: here you have the Acropolis and then The hill right below it is where Paul was preaching to the Athenians and bringing Christianity to them. And they're kind of like, going, what are you even talking about? Like, we know herding concepts of resurrection and everything. So Athens is kind of ground zero for the apostle Paul.

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: And the Greek Christianity really kind of, it took a while to get rolling, but So those are big themes that we talk about on the tour as this tension between mythology and Plato and Aristotle who had their own schools of thought and how that kind of bleeds into and actually kind of preparing the way for Christianity to just take hold and blossom. It's really fascinating.

Emilie Call: So cool. I was gonna ask if you talk, sorry, I was gonna

casey: But in the back, go ahead. Yeah.

Emilie Call: ask if you talk much about Greek mythology on your tours. I am so fascinated by Greek mythology.

casey: No.

Emilie Call: I've always just really loved it. and I'm reading right now a book called I Medusa, and it's so good. It

casey: Yeah.

Emilie Call: is so good. And I just recently read one about, gosh, who's the god or she's actually a nymph, but that turned men into Pigs and she was on the Odyssey. Circe, yes. Circe Circe, I think is anyway.

casey: Cersei, is it Cersei? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Emilie Call: I just read a book called Circe, and it was so good. I read it before the Odyssey, which was even more fascinating to see the Odyssey. But so how much do you get into Greek mythology? Do you more just focus on like the connection between the two, or do you kind of get into the mythology a little bit?

casey: of it, like I think that it all, I think it all blends together. I think that, so in Athens, we will have a blending of going to the ancient Greek and talking about ancient Greek mythology. And actually the Acropolis Museum is just wildly amazing. It's really amazing. And I have some really good guides over there who kind of walk us through and take us to the Acropolis. And then So we get into that and we'll go into the also the porticoes where Stoicism was born. So we'll get into Stoicism, we'll get into philosophy, we'll get into mythology and we'll get into Christianity. It all will blend together. But especially when we go up to Delphi,

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: when there's like this, which was considered the center of the universe, Zeus, according to legend, sent an eagle this way and an eagle this way. And when they went around the world, the universe or whatever, they met in Delphi. it's like they consider that to be the belly button, the navel. And it is just ripe with mythology and the temple of Apollo and the oracle. And that bleeds into so much of the mythology of the time period. So that's a very, let me go back a little bit and just say, we'll be at three days in Athens and then we'll be. will get his shuttle and will be driving up to Delphi. And it's one of my favorite ruins in all of Europe, honestly. It's just breathtaking. And it looks down into a valley in the ocean. So it's just stupendous. So all of these conversations will be had, like the blending, I really find that if you study one thing on its own, The other one doesn't make as much sense. If that makes sense. like, origin of

Emilie Call: So cool. my gosh. Yes. I love that.

casey: Alexandria, who was the early Christian, he called Christianity Plato for the masses. So a lot of the things that Plato was teaching came along in Christianity too, some of the same philosophies, but then it it was wildly different at the same time. so Alexandria was where Alexander the Great formed the city in Egypt. And so we'll get all these things to me, I'll get blended in and kind of talk so that we can kind of bring it home. But I think history has to be in mythology, anything makes the most sense when we when we can talk about how it relates to life right now in our day and age. And that's when I think it becomes

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: impactful and memorable and all those things. in the backdrop of all this,

Emilie Call: Yeah, for sure.

casey: there's food. Like we're just gonna be eating the best food ever. Like I'm serious when

Emilie Call: Yes.

Ash: S speaking

casey: I say the food.

Ash: my language.

casey: I'm serious. Like food is a very big, big part of everything I do. and I, I may go to painstaking efforts to make sure we're doing great stuff. I always include, a private cooking class into all of my tours. so the people walk away. We just met last week with a group. took the Greece last October and we had a big Greek night with the stuff we learned from a private chef. And it was just amazing. So good. And so simple, not that hard, you know? You're like, we all have things.

Emilie Call: Yes. We ever since we went to Greece, we went last year, and I would never have tried to make Greek food, but going there, I was like, this is so easy. Like, chop up a few vegetables, put some olive oil, like, you know, and it's so good and fresh and healthy. And I do want to say to those listening, you have to look up like Google Delphi. Because when I was first talking to you, Casey, about it, you're like, hold on, pull this up first. And

casey: Right.

Emilie Call: it is so magical. And you know, like you can't really capture the feeling and the vibe of a place with a picture. But that picture, like the pictures that I saw was like the most magical ever. So I am so excited.

casey: And the hotel that I've got a hotel already booked and I get it early because it we sit in breakfast or lunch or whatever and we sit out and you're just looking over the entire valley and down to the ocean. The view is incredible from our hotel like breakfast table. And

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: that's we sit out. And I think it's really important going back to my philosophy. I love to have a group that's kind of somewhat small and nimble because it gives us

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: flexibility. It gives us the ability to be like, to adapt. Because every tour is different. Sometimes we'll be like, there's this thing going on over here. Let's change the plans up a little bit. Let's shift things a little bit. These are not big bus tours where everybody's just kind of stuck in their thing. I feel like people walk away feeling like best friends after they go on these. And this group that we've got coming, because I think we've only got like two or slots, maybe left two or three slots. The groups

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: are going to be awesome. This is going to be a really, really fun group that's forming. And I get really excited when I see groups come together that are like, they just seem like they are meant to be the groups

Emilie Call: Yes.

casey: that form. really believe that they just kind of form the way they need to be formed.

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm. I'm so excited.

casey: Yeah.

Emilie Call: your wife Melanie wrote a beautiful art article about Delphi and how life changing and spiritual it was for her. What is that article called?

casey: I'll have to put in the link. can't remember what it's called. yeah,

Emilie Call: Okay, we'll link it on the episode, but

casey: the reason why is because it was kind of like Delphi has its origins with a python, a snake coming

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: up and the snake was not considered to be a bad thing. It was coming up to bring wisdom up from the earth. So Delphi has a story of the Pythia. So that's where the word Pythia comes from, where the Pythia, the oracle would sit down there and kind of, there's some gases that the oracle would sniff up and come up with some prophecy in the temple of Apollo. And there's this whole ritual, but it originates, that's why they call it the Pythia, because of the basis of this python snake that was a legend pre, pre those, that time. So.

Ash: Hmm, fascinating.

casey: Anyway, Athens is beautiful, we, so when we go up to Delphi and spend a couple of days there and a couple of nights, but from there we, take a little jaunt up to Meteora. And this is where we get into some monasteries. yes, if you're listening, please Google Meteora. And yes, it does have the root word meteor, just an A on the end of it, because it was like these monasteries in the sky and It was built around a thousand years ago. They built all these monasteries on the top of basically granite monoliths. It's like going to Yosemite National Park just with monasteries on top. and they didn't have any stairs going up

Ash: Wow.

casey: until the last hundred years. It's a living monastery, so there are priests still doing their thing there. We've been in the middle of the church, so they have this ritual where they have these huge chandeliers, and they get a big stick, and they start to spin it around the whole room with candles on it. And it's whirling around as part of their ritual. And it's kind of meant to be like we're spreading light and that sort of thing. they make their own wine up there. They keep it like, it's so neat and they macule it. But it's a living monastery. There's still monks up there doing their thing. There's six of them still. they used to only, until the last hundred years, you could only get there where they have polies you can still see. And they would put... priests in baskets and bring them up on a pulley system. Like hundreds of

Ash: No way.

casey: you can Google it. Google maybe you're a priest in baskets, pulley or whatever. And you can see where they would raise them up because they built the monasteries up high for protection. Partly from the Ottomans, partly from just invaders and that sort of thing. And it kind of started as like a in some caves and then they kind of gradually started building these monasteries and this how they did it it's like a lot of people don't even know that it exists but it is like one of the most beautiful places and

Emilie Call: Yeah, that that is it wasn't Delphi. I Googled, it was Meteora. That's the really magical looking place. Yeah, I'm sure Delphi is too. But

casey: Yeah, Meteora. That's what he was in. Both of them are magical.

Ash: That is wild.

Emilie Call: I I really do have high expectations for this to be like a life-changing, connecting spiritual trip. And and I know it will be because every time I go to Europe, it is life-changing in some way. But this I think will be even more because we'll have more context. Generally, I just go and I'm just like wandering. You know, I mean, we make plans, but there's nobody to tell us really the history and all of the information and how it all connects. So I'm so excited

casey: I'm gonna miss

Emilie Call: to have your knowledge and wisdom and expertise with and also not to have to plan anything myself to just go and just follow. And I think it'll be so relaxing and also, I mean, it'll be rigorous. We'll be walking lots and So I think you need to be prepared for that. But for me, yeah, yes.

Ash: Yeah, yeah. You forget what a lug what a luxury that is though, to have someone else plan it out and find the food and the lodging and

Emilie Call: And all the best of everything. It's gonna be so great.

casey: had somebody come on one of our tours a few years ago and their husband, she dragged her husband along and he's like, I'm the one who always plans the tours. I want to plan the tour. Day one, he was grumpy. He was like, you know what, I'm the guy that does this, you know? And day two,

Ash: Ha ha

casey: he was like, I'm never going back. I'm never, are you kidding me? Like this is, yeah. You have no idea because we'll just show up and I'm like, they've got a table set for us at restaurants. Like these tours include, by the way, these are designed to be the trip of a lifetime. Every tour that I do is designed

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: to be of a lifetime. And I hear that all the time people, and by the way, tried it, I'm hyping it up, but I actually feel like I tried to downplay it as much as possible because I like to, I don't even put everything that's in the tour in the, in the agenda. on purpose because I like there to be surprises, I like there to be... I hate when I go to the movies, I go every Tuesday night to the movies and I hate watching previews. I show up late because I don't want to see the preview. I want to be surprised. So I don't like to see everything that's going to happen. So

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: you're seeing on the agenda a lot of stuff, but a lot of stuff that is not on the agenda is some of the most amazing stuff. And it is designed to be a trip for a lifetime and... Basically, when you show up, we meet in Athens, I don't take care of the flights, because a lot of times people are coming from different places and they'll go visit another little place and fly over and whatever. But as soon as you're like under my wing, like I've got lodging, we do one big group meal every single day, breakfast is almost always covered. But we do one big group meal every day. I have all the transportation.

Emilie Call: In addition to breakfast, right? Sorry. Okay.

casey: Yeah, the flights down to Crete are covered in this tour. everything is like, what am I missing? All the tours that are included are included in the prize. So you're literally just kind of showing up and just don't have to think about anything except for getting there and leaving. And

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: we're going to end the tour in Crete and people can fly right out of Crete and be done. Or you can go. I don't, I'd recommend you fly down to Egypt or go over the roads or somewhere because it's, you're just right there. So this, this is a suggestion. It's not, you're there already.

Emilie Call: I think we might do that. I've always wanted to go to Egypt.

casey: It might, it's like a hundred, maybe a hundred bucks to fly down to Cairo or something. So, so that's why I don't do people's travel, their international travel, because I don't want to, I want people to be flexible to go and experience other places too. And, but,

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: so yeah, it's just, I do think people realize and I have people come back all the time. Like we have just people, they're like, where's the next one? And the Greece thing started because

Ash: Mm-hmm.

casey: I took the same group to Italy, to two different parts of Italy. They're like, take us to Greece, please. And so I did. And

Emilie Call: That's awesome.

Ash: Wow.

casey: so I'll have awesome tour guides in Greece and in Delphi and in these different places too, who are locals. Honestly, I've kind of moved away from bringing Scholars from here to there because the locals know way more They just they're were they're more passionate. They're way more they're on boots on the ground. I prefer I prefer it So, yeah, pre

Emilie Call: Yeah, makes sense. We have one lady sorry, go ahead.

Ash: Yeah.

casey: I was gonna say that's so we're going from Meteora and we're go down and then we're fly down to Crete And we're gonna spend the last four nights in Crete And that's where the labyrinth and the Minotaurs and the Mycenaeans, it's like kind of the pre Athenian roots of ancient Greece starts in Crete. And it's got Egyptian influence. There's so much there that it's just, again, the food, that's probably where we're going do our cooking class, all that stuff. Anyway, so yeah.

Ash: Wow, this sounds

Emilie Call: Is that I'd imagine that's

Ash: so dreamy.

Emilie Call: pretty tropically ish.

casey: It's, it's, we're going in the spring and it's a really good time of

Emilie Call: Mm. Mm-hmm.

casey: year for wildflowers. One

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: of the things that about the island, the Greek islands, and there's a lot of them, they get in the fall, they get so dry that they're just look like fires run through a lot of it and just burnt through the, and so it's, it's actually, a lot of them are just kind of like. Along the coast is beautiful because there's ocean, but a lot of the vegetation is brown and dead. So I like going in the spring because there's a lot of wildflowers that are really beautiful.

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: And yes, it'll be, we'll be going to the beach. It'll be just a little chilly for, it's not perfect beach weather, but it's shoulder season, which makes it less busy.

Emilie Call: Nice.

casey: Yeah.

Emilie Call: We I was gonna say we have one girl that's coming, woman, lady that's coming that has been on your tour that just went with you to Italy. And she was messaging me and she's like, I really want to come, but I probably can only make it myself. Like, I don't know that we can my my husband and I can both make it. but and then she messaged me a little later and she's like, I don't think it's gonna work. And then like two days later, she's like, We're coming, I'm coming. She's like, I can I'm gonna have

Ash: Mm-hmm.

Emilie Call: way too much FOMO. Because I know what Casey's tours are like and it's just incredible. And I don't want to miss that. So you have a reputation to live up to. And I'm so excited. I I also wanted to mention that there is you opened up an option to go solo and to have like a solo room. and it's just a thousand dollars more, but you can sign up for that. And then if there's another woman or another person that signs up. And you can share, then we'll refund you that thousand dollars. So there's definitely options if if you can't come in pairs. And I know we had like three people really interested in that. So Ash might be one of them. so yeah, we'll have to kind of see how that pans out, but

Ash: Mm. Yeah. Yeah.

casey: We have to share a room with somebody. We get

Ash: I'm down for a room.

casey: twin beds so you can be, and we had people on the last tour do that, and we've had a lot of people do that, and

Emilie Call: nice.

casey: it saves a little money if you do it that way. But yeah, it is,

Ash: Awesome. Yeah.

casey: I don't know, I love, I think the thing I'm passionate about is I love for people to connect. There is a different type of, when you're abroad and you're in a foreign land and you have commonality, you connect on a different level. I've just,

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: it's really special, I think. And then, especially when you're connecting over food and experiences. But I also really want people to walk away with the philosophy that I think is different is that I had, let me give you an example. I had somebody say, hey, we want to go on a tour to Rome so that we can like, The last time we went there, our guide was showing all of these Mormon things in Rome and all this stuff. like, you're not gonna get that on my tour. I want

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: to go there to learn from them. I always ask my guests, please, we're gonna put a different set of goggles on for the next 10 days. We're gonna be Greek Orthodox for the next 10 days. We can find... We're not going to be going to like like because I've had groups like we want to go to a Mormon church here I'm like that's not my tour like we're

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: we're going to a Greek Orthodox church because we need to learn something different We want to learn from their culture We don't want to superimpose our culture unto them and just see

Emilie Call: Right.

casey: that lands all the time I want people to I like to try to get people to see things differently from food philosophy religion everything just open open your eyes to this crazy, amazing world that we live in and how things are different and that diversity and that difference is what makes these tours really fun. so I do think there's a lot of tours that are run just to kind of try to give people what they want. Like we're gonna spoon feed you the narrative that you have learned your entire life. And that's just not something I'm interested in at all. Like I'm

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: trying to like, if somebody, I'm trying to, Every single time we sit down, I'm throwing new foods at people. I'm like, we're going to try this. I know you don't like octopus, but just take a little nibble. know, like, so there's a lot of seafood. There's a lot of different things that are different for people. And it's important to, I think, model that to our kids too, that we are trying new things and we see things and we're willing to see things differently. And, and that is something I take a lot of pleasure in. just exposing people to new ideas, things, spirituality, all devotion, all that stuff, you know, that's fun. That's really fun for me. This group of

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: Valerie, not a single one of them has been to Italy yet. And that was like, that is like so much fun for me. This is like, okay, this is going to be really easy. Yeah.

Ash: Yeah, no expectations. They're just like everything's

Emilie Call: That's so fun. Yeah.

Ash: gonna be new for them. I love what you said about opening people's minds. I just think I mean, Emmy and I have traveled quite a bit, not a ton out of well, she's traveled more out of country than I have, but our mom worked for Jet Blue growing up and so we have this love of travel in us. And what we love about learning other religions is also that It opens your mind. It it's it allows you to to see, okay, there's more than one way to worship. And I feel like when you travel, you see there's more than one way to live. So this just feels like the perfect like combination of those things, you know, just seeing different lifestyles, different religions, different cultures, like this. I gotta go, guys. I have to go. I'm coming.

Emilie Call: You're coming. It's just we're gonna make it happen.

casey: So we went to Mass in Delphi and they had Gregorian chants just going. And anyway, we went to this other cathedral. I'm seeing if I can find this, because I record the audio. anyway, I was in the middle of the Gregorian chant. There's like a big candlestick right next to me. And I knocked it off. the ledge and it just made this huge thump and the whole place like stopped and turned to looked at me and it was just awesome. And

Emilie Call: Yeah.

Ash: Ha ha ha.

casey: my daughter was like, what are you doing? You know, and anyway, we went to also down the road to this other one. Hold on, I let you listen to this. Can you hear that?

Emilie Call: So cool.

casey: Anyway, and then we were like, my wife and I, were always like to go into confession booths. so we're in this Greek Orthodox church and we're snooping around in a confession booth. And these guys come around the corner and they're like, get out. And they booted us out of the church, but we're just, it's just curiosity. But, you know, I've always

Emilie Call: Yes.

casey: wanted to give confession.

Emilie Call: Same. I always say that

casey: We can do it.

Emilie Call: to Ash every time we see a confession booth. I'm like, can I just do it? Do I have to be part of this religion? Is there someone there on the other side? I have a lot of curiosity

Ash: She's got she's got a lot to confess, people.

casey: Yeah.

Emilie Call: as well. And I

casey: I And I tell people, when you come on these tours, come curious. Come

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: curious, come curious for food, come willing to meet new people and open to new ideas. And one of the things I think is fun is when I've taken some people who are very devout Latter-day Saints, too. Like when we were in Florence, and when they... It's interesting because I... They have kids who have drifted away from the church. But when they kind

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: of start to see things that, like that, these cyclical patterns in history, and they see that people like Michelangelo or Da Vinci, who were rogues of their own time, kind of going off the beaten path a little bit, they go, you know what, those guys turn out okay. Maybe my kid will turn out okay. Like I

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: had a lady tell me, It gave her so much peace to see the cyclical patterns in world history that maybe she was stuck too much in a regional provincial mindset that my kid has left the church and that my world is crumbling. But to go and see the patterns of this stuff over millennia, you go, there's a bigger picture out here. There's something grander going on and maybe my kids are going to be okay. I

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: think it's really, it's so, strangely cathartic for people who are trying to expand their spirituality and stay devout, those who are deconstructing, it's very cathartic for them too to see there's all sorts of patterns and ways people have done things for years and it's okay. And I think, yeah, go ahead.

Emilie Call: My husband sorry, my husband and I went to Nepal, and that was one of our very favorite things is the monks chanting like that. And it was like the one of like a different, like I like tapped into a different part of my spirit than I ever have before. And I was like, this is so cool to be able to stay in the religion that I'm in, but add to that, you know, and like. Have different ways of calming myself and meditating and connecting to God. And it's not replacing it. I mean, it can be, but for me, it wasn't to replace it, but it was to find new ways to do that. And I think it just creates a more round well-rounded person and helps you to be able to relate to people that are different than you and fully accept people. Like you were saying, like some people's children that are struggling or deconstructing or leaving the church or whatever. Like, Family is the root of our church. And so if you can't understand and love and accept fully your family, then find a way to do that, you know? And I think this is one of those ways to really do that. And I think like going out of the country or going somewhere different, experiencing something different is a great way to do that. And then in a like in this particular situation, something that's really cultivated to really do that is so special and important, I think.

casey: Yeah, and those are themes that I try to bring in to our groups in particular because people are going through a lot of different things. like to just show, hey, here's how Paul thought about this. Like Paul's talking to the Corinthians and he's telling, and they're asking him, should I leave my husband or should I leave my spouse if they don't go to church anymore? You know, or whatever. And they're like, and he's like, no, you know, so there's like these themes that are very common that we still deal with, you know? Anyway,

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: so there's all sorts of.

Ash: Fascinating.

casey: things going on, I don't know, I'm looking forward to it. I think it's super fun to meet up with people and to cultivate a group that I feel like is gonna jive really well. cause I do take time to make sure I feel like people who are gonna be kind of jiving with the same kind of mentality and that sort of thing, I think it's important. So.

Emilie Call: Yeah, for sure. You one last thing I want to hit on really quick. we wanna let you go, but you did mention that there is some divine feminine energy on this tour as well. Tell us about that.

casey: Yeah, well, mean, like Athens, the overseer of Athens, Athena is named where Athens gets

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: its name from Athena. I love the I have that necklace of Athena because I just I love the concept of the owl and the wisdom and the strategic. warfare and looking to a female protector. just thought that, I just think it's so fascinating. So there's that, but there's also the Pythia in Apollo, the Oracle, these were women who were prophesying. we go to, in Athens, we go, one of the places we go to that I keep close to the cuff a little bit is Socrates' prison where he was, he was, he was set to die because, and, but he, he, he defended himself in his own trial. But the Oracle in Delphi told one of his friends that Socrates is the wisest man in the land. he believed, he's like, the way we look at a prophet, he believed these women who were prophesying this. So he set out to go

Emilie Call: These women who were prophesying this

casey: and find out if he was. So he went and thought about who are the handful of wisest people that I think he went out to go. listen to them speak and he's like, he came to the conclusion that he was the wisest man in the land. And the reason why was because he thought that they, it seemed like they had already figured everything out and he's like, I know I don't know. The idea that he felt uncertainty about so many different things was why he considered himself to be the wisest person in the land.

Emilie Call: Wow. That's a huge lesson in itself.

Ash: I love that.

casey: And it was all, yes, and that ended up in his death because he was put to death for corrupting the youth because he was teaching them his philosophies. then he was told that he was like, you don't worship Zeus. And he's like, I do, I do. And so anyway, all this feminine energy, it's the root of some of that stuff. And then, Some of the two of the first disciples that the first baptism in Europe was Lydia was was Paul's was a lady.

Emilie Call: Ha ha ha.

casey: So there's a really interesting stories that I think we've through there and also in Crete there's some really fascinating stuff and I like to weave that in because I think it's part of the history, you know, and it's I think it's

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: important to see that there's People have thought differently about things in the past and it's not always been exactly how it is right now in our little neck of the woods. And I think that inspires people to do, to be a part of something bigger, a more global, less provincial mindset. know?

Ash: Mm, mm.

Emilie Call: Yeah.

casey: And quite frankly, I've found that my guides, I almost hire almost all exclusively female guides because I like them.

Ash: Ha ha ha.

casey: I just think they're more passionate. In Italy and in Greece, almost every single... I didn't even notice it. just like, all of a sudden I was like, my gosh, every single one of my guides is a female. And they're awesome. Anyway,

Ash: That's amazing.

Emilie Call: That's so funny. Yeah.

casey: so it's just, it's fun. But it is coed. It is going to be male and female. Couples are invited.

Emilie Call: Sure. Yes.

casey: We have a history for everybody and I love digging into it. Sometimes I'm talking too much and looking at people and their eyes are glossing over it. Maybe we need to go eat some food. I can talk about it all day long but

Ash: No. We

Emilie Call: Food solves everything.

casey: not everybody can handle everything.

Emilie Call: I could listen all day long. I'm so excited.

Ash: No, guys, Casey is like the most chill human too. He's just so chill and you're so easy to hang out with that it's just like I really feel like this is a tour that just has something for everyone. Like if you're more laid back,

Emilie Call: Mm.

Ash: if you want the knowledge, if you want the food, like it really just feels like the perfect balance for for everyone. And I am going to try my hardest to get there. Yeah.

casey: Yeah, we would love to have you, because you've got to try some Greek coffee.

Ash: now I'm there. You had me. You knew the magic word.

casey: which is just, people, my wife describes it as dirty socks and I'm like, sorry, that's not a big selling point, I,

Ash: That's hilarious.

casey: it's just, it's strong, we'll put it that way. And I really like it.

Ash: Yeah. I'm gonna need some extra cream up my sleeve

Emilie Call: Okay.

Ash: to just shake in there.

casey: Yeah.

Emilie Call: Everybody like we're such open and accepting people. Like, we're not gonna force anyone to drink coffee or try coffee or try whatever, like try seafood or try, you know, like it'll be an option. It'll all be there. I think everyone will feel really comfortable because it is so easygoing, you know, and we all are just very chill.

casey: And I also, I want us to say this, like my last tour was with the Masons and we had half people who were, who have never been Mormon or half who have left the church and they're

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: drinking, they're drinking, trying the wines, doing all the stuff. And the other group is like, let's go get some gelato. And so I love,

Ash: Mm-hmm.

Emilie Call: Perfect.

casey: it's actually part of my, of my duty of civil disobedience to pair people together that I, that should not be paired together all the, sometimes in that we think, you know, so I, I actually love to take people who I know are open-minded on both ends of the spectrum and are going

Emilie Call: Mm.

casey: to get along and be like, yeah, go for it. I don't care. And the other person's like going, yeah, let's everybody's coming with an open mind and flexibility and, and respect. and they're not gonna be like, my gosh, that guy's having a beer right now. That's just not the way these tours are. It's very open and I love that we can straddle that. And that to me is actually a big reason why I do what I do because I think that that's the move that needs to happen in our community right now is we get over these differences

Ash: Mm.

casey: and we get over these like nitpicking and these dumb little things that we've, we're culturally grew up with and be like, no, we, we're, we're a. We're disregarding all of those protocols and the social agreements that we think are supposed to be there. And they just are non-existent on these tours.

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm. We're all

Ash: Mm.

Emilie Call: just gonna be ourselves and that's it. The end. Like

casey: Yeah, and I wash my clothes in my shower in the

Ash: Mm-hmm.

casey: hotel room. and I'm like, these are laid back. I try to set the tone right off the bat. Be yourself, come as you are, and let's have fun. Put down the few tenses, and we're just gonna like, let's just be ourselves and have fun. And that's really important to me. So,

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm.

casey: anyway, it's gonna be awesome. Hash.

Ash: Love it. Expect nothing less from you. This just sounds dreamy

casey: hoping to make it.

Ash: and I know I'm gonna make it happen. The those churches

casey: It's better than what we're saying it is. I'm going to tell you right now.

Emilie Call: Yeah.

Ash: up on the hills. that sounds incredible.

casey: Mm-hmm. But it is. I genuinely...

Ash: sorry, we're lagging.

casey: That's okay. I'll just put it that way. I actually do not hype it up as much as it should be, deliberately. And there's reasons for that. But it's gonna be awesome. Ash, hope you can make it. Looking forward to seeing Todd and Emily out there. And we've got some other people who are coming who are just stellar human beings, really fun people. It's going to be, I think people make friends for life. It'll be awesome. So looking forward to it. And by the way, I guess we should say where to go to

Emilie Call: Yep. Yay.

casey: relic relic relic relic relic relic relic relic relic relic relic relic relic Travel.com and and we'll put a link also to the full itinerary that I think I sent you it will with the link to the full itinerary so Yeah, any other questions

Emilie Call: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. You

Ash: Yes, yes,

Emilie Call: can find

Ash: yes.

Emilie Call: it at that church. is it that's church podcast? Yeah, that's church. It's been a minute. That's church podcast on our Instagram. It'll all be linked there as well, as well as on here. And we're so excited. Thanks so much, Casey. We hope to see as many of you as we can. But like Casey said, there's only a few spots left. So if you're interested. Make sure to go there quickly and reserve your spot. Okay. Thanks so much.

casey: Yeah, yeah, gonna be awesome.

Ash: Thanks,

Emilie Call: Thanks for listening to That's Church. Again, you can find details and information in our show notes or on our Instagram at That's Church Podcast. See you next time.