THIS IS MY STORY // Interview with Brittany Walker

Really segues nicely into um something we're gonna be doing on and off over the this school year that we're having.

Man, I tell you, uh I am so blessed to get to hear people's stories and to know kind of how God has moved in their life and things that He has done in their life and over these next months and over the next year.

We want to pause what we're doing, whatever series we're in, or even if we're not in a series, just pause and actually get to know someone's story.

So we're calling this, This is my story.

It's kind of like a year-long series that we just pause and run back to.

Um, and I love that.

Uh, God is at work in each of our lives, He is writing your story, actually.

And this is part of it.

Part of your story is that you're right here in this place of worship today, carrying whatever you brought in with you.

Um, he wants to continue to move forward with you and write that story for his glory and for your good.

And I love that.

So today I want to introduce you to someone.

If you're a longtime Hickory Grover, you already know who this is.

Uh, but she has written a book we're gonna talk about here in a little bit.

And she's one of my dear, dear, dear, dear friends.

She was in my youth group a long time ago.

I want to ask you to help me give a really, really warm welcome this morning to Dr.

Brittany Walker.

Come on up, Brittany.

Yay.

Yes, come have a seat with me.

I told her she made me look bad today.

She's like dressy Bingles fan today.

I'm like just t-shirt Bingles fan, you know, Sunday fun day.

So um, Brittany, you're so much that I would love to tell them about you.

I'm gonna let you start off first and just kind of give it a little introduction to who you are to get help them to get to know you a little bit.

Tell them about yourself.

Absolutely.

So good morning, everyone.

First, I just want to say thank you so much for having me this morning.

Thank you for the opportunity to have a conversation that is so near and dear to my heart and one that I find to be just so important.

Um, I also just want to say it's very full circle to be here this morning, obviously growing up here.

But Bill, you were one of the first people who I kind of ran this idea by when it was just a thought in my head and there was nothing on paper yet.

So um being here feels very full circle for that moment.

Having it here, that was over two years ago at this point.

Yeah.

Um the book took a little longer to publish than I was planning on because I moved across the country and had a baby.

So in the meantime, while you were writing the book, yeah, that's a lot going on right there.

So it was like we kind of got close to completion and then everything paused for a little bit.

But, anyways, that's been a while ago now.

So thank you for your support.

Um, it feels like such an honor to have you and Sherry in my corner all the time.

And also just thank you for finding value in the message that I'm sharing.

Um, so with that, I'm Brittany Walker, of course.

I'm the author of Her Dad is the Pastor that we're gonna be talking about today.

Um, but on a more personal note, my family and I live here in northern Kentucky.

We live in Union.

Um, we actually just moved back to the area.

So I grew up here, I went to college in Lexington, I went to UK.

While I was there, my dad was called to another church in Virginia.

And so when I graduated, I moved there, and that's where I met my husband.

Um, and so my husband Matt is here this morning, and we have three kids.

They're four, three, and one, Jameson, Addison, and Lillian, and they're here as well in the back.

Um, and so we're really happy to be here with you this morning.

But like I said, we just moved back about a year ago.

My husband, I say we, I moved back.

My husband is obviously new to the area, um, because I met him in Virginia, and so his job offered us a job relocation.

And if you know me, you know I was homesick for Kentucky since the day I left.

And so we jumped on that opportunity, and I'm so thankful to be back.

Um, but on a more professional note, I did write this book.

Um, however, this is a very new uh area for me.

I am, in a word, an educator.

Um, I say that because I've worked in pretty much every level of education uh you can think of, but that's been my whole career.

I've have a lot of experience at the K-12 level.

Um, I have classroom experience.

I was a building administrator.

Um, I even have experience all the way up in the education, policy, and politics level.

Um, I ran for a seat on the school board in the city that I lived in prior to being here.

That was one of my favorite jobs.

Education policy is um passion.

Oh, yeah, sets my soul on fire for sure.

Um one of my biggest passions.

And so um, and then I also have experience on the higher ed side.

I've worked as an adjunct professor, I've worked on dissertation committees for students who are pursuing their doctorate.

Um, and my full-time job now is on the curriculum side in higher ed.

So kind of worked all across the spectrum, but I say that because this is so different.

Everything that I've ever written up until now has been very academic in nature.

Um, but this is very personal and also very vulnerable.

It was very difficult to write for that reason.

Um, but it was a teaching opportunity after all.

And since I am an educator, um it felt kind of like a natural fit in that way.

So that's awesome.

Anyways, thank you for having me here.

It's just in a nutshell.

So even though she's so like Dr.

Walker and super professional, you know, let's go back a little bit to back when you were in my youth group, show a little picture of me and you together back in the day.

Uh this is where it all began.

She hung out with me and said, we need to increase education in this world after getting to know me.

I think that's what it is.

So uh I was asked her, she sent this to me.

I'm like, oh my gosh, that's I forgot I used to shave my head sometimes uh for various reasons.

Uh then I'm like, uh, she reminded me that this was uh the last day that she was gonna be in independence before going off to college at UK, right?

Uh so that's why we were making our little sad faces that she was leaving me.

Uh but I tell you, I love getting to watch, literally watch Brittany.

I say grow up.

I think you were in sixth grade, maybe when we met, seventh grade, maybe.

Seventh grade.

Uh and so cool to have you in my youth ministry, be able to do camp together and ministry together, watch you grow up, uh, go graduate, start a family.

She has an amazing family.

And of course, if you didn't catch it, her dad is my predecessor, Dr.

Will Langford, and uh been super, super close with Will, Melissa, and all the family from day one, from the moment they came to North Kentucky.

I know that I would not be pastoring here at this church if it were not for Will and his friendship and his mentorship of me.

Uh, so I'm super grateful for this family.

But getting back to the book, this is such a great book.

And it's entitled Her Dad is the pastor.

So, my question, my first question I want to ask you, Brittany, is what caused you to know that this book needed to be written?

Yeah, um, so really it just comes back down to problem identification.

And there is a problem.

The problem is that it is not uncommon for pastors' kids, PKs is what I'll say most of the time.

It's not uncommon for PKs to grow up having a complicated or a negative relationship with church because of things they experience, things that they see that are different than maybe someone who attends church, for example.

You kind of see what's behind the curtain, you kind of see behind the scenes, and you experience things as well.

And so, um, like I said, I did see this as a teaching opportunity, but I think one of the main reasons that I find it to be such an important conversation why I wanted to write the book is because it's just so widely overlooked.

You know, pastors um are in a ministry where they are serving other people.

So to talk about the impact that the ministry has on your family can appear very self-serving, which is frowned upon in church culture.

And so having the conversation, my writing the book is my advocacy for PKs.

Um, but it's a book really that's full of opportunities to teach and to have conversations, even if they're uncomfortable.

Um it's a little taboo, honestly.

But I, you know, coming from my academic background, when you're writing a piece of research or a piece of literature, you want to contribute to the field.

You want to do something that hasn't been done before.

And that's kind of how I viewed this as well.

There are some pieces of literature, there are some books, there are some resources, um, but it's very few and far between.

And so I wanted to contribute to the conversation and open it up so that people can be aware and we can spread awareness.

So, really just problem identification.

Um, and the reason that I think that this is such a valuable conversation and such a critical conversation is because we're talking about something that has the potential to have eternal consequences.

Um, when you talk about why it's a problem that PKs grow up having a negative relationship with church, um, you have to think about what happens because of that problem.

They grow up and they could potentially abandon church, abandon their faith.

Um, and that's scary.

And I look at myself as an example because it has the potential to also go beyond the PK.

I have three kids.

So if that were a situation that I was in, which very well could have been, um, I think about what that means for my kids now.

They wouldn't be in church, they wouldn't be surrounded by in a Christian community, they wouldn't be exposed to Bible instruction, and then that really puts a hindrance on them and their ability to be able to form a connection and a relationship with Jesus.

And again, we're talking eternal consequences, it's it's serious stuff.

And um so I want to make sure that we're having conversations, we're opening the dialogue, and we're we're learning and growing uh together.

Yeah, it's almost like you can't have it both ways.

We often talk about how we, the church, are the hands and feet of Jesus.

And then when when the hands and feet of Jesus seem to cause pain, it's almost like this tension of like, well, okay, so that that's people, and people are uh we're all at fault.

We all have we're we're human, we're gonna make mistakes, but at the same time, I love the point you're making.

It's like, so then we need to learn from that.

Let's get better when we know that there's been the something that is a part of the church has been a source of pain.

Then how do we learn from it, grow from it, and do better?

I appreciate you talking about how one of the problems is that pastors being the ones that want to talk about this, we usually don't.

Like I would admit that I was very tempted to be like, okay, how can I make sure we do this in a way where it doesn't look like Bill brought Brittany in because he wants Hickory Grove to hear some kind of specific message that's gonna help his kids.

And it's funny how you're tempted to think that way.

Like, uh, it's like, oh, I'm just afraid they're gonna think I have a selfish motive behind this.

And that's a default mechanism.

We, as pastors, don't want to come off at all self-serving.

But because of that, I think we've not had this dialogue.

I mean, this is what you're experiencing right now, guys, this is rare.

Yeah, I don't know of any other place that's doing it.

I only knew of one other book that this was written about.

And uh, so this is, I think, very, very groundbaking, groundbreaking.

One of the most riveting parts of your book that I found myself like, even though I know so much of your story, we've had lots of conversations about what your experience has been.

But when you see written on the pages like this was my personal experience, a painful thing that happened in church, I'm like, oh my goodness, just seeing it written there is like, uh, you just lean into it, it's riveting.

And sometimes you're saying, uh-uh, no, that someone said that, someone did that.

So I wanted you to at least share one example of some painful experience, something that's a part of your story where you experience that kind of hurt.

Yeah, um, I talk about a lot of different topics that I think are hard for PKs.

One of them being identity and always having your identity tied to your parent or your parents and their job, right?

This is not a role, I didn't sign up to be a PK.

Um, this is not something I chose, but it always felt like my identity was tied to that.

And I mean, I was a PK for 35 years.

My dad just retired from pastoring last year.

And so this is something all the way up until my adulthood I struggled with even and growing up as well.

There's so many examples, but I feel like the best example that I can give because it's just so like eye-opening, is kind of where the title of my book came from.

Uh, the title's Her Dad's a pastor.

And that's because it was commonly, this is Britney, her dad's a pastor, or her dad's my pastor, or whatever.

Always tagged on who you were.

Yeah, not just like ever Britney, period.

Um, and so my I mentioned that I was honored to be elected to the school board where I lived, and I lived in a really large city.

Um, it was a really big election, really big race, really competitive.

And I was at my victory party afterwards.

Yeah.

And someone from church came, which was so nice, um, to support me.

But she brought a friend and they came up to me and said, hi, you know, congratulations, whatever.

This is Brittany, her dad's a pastor.

And I'm like, wait, I just gave like a speech.

And so, like, well, and and that was honestly a scary thing I did because I I kind of made that decision to run for office kind of at odds with my dad, actually.

And so he really like begged me not to do that.

And so I kind of like what that was totally my own thing, you know.

And so, like, if we wonder why PK struggle with identity, like I think that's a really good example.

But um it's I think it's important, like it kind of sounds like a silly story, I know, but it's it's important because we need the space and we need to allow PKs the space to discover who they are and what their identity is in Christ.

Because if we don't know who we are, and we don't even have the space or the freedom to discover that, we start allowing the world to tell us who we are.

And you hear the stereotypes all the time about PKs and they can be rebellious.

And I think this kind of plays into it.

It's like we allow the world to tell us who we are because sometimes we don't even know who we are, because we've spent our whole life struggling with identity.

I would say I was in my 30s, probably 30-ish, um, before I really did discover who I was and felt comfortable kind of breaking out of that stereotype and what I was supposed to do and what I was supposed to say and how I was supposed to act, and wow, um, really felt free to be myself.

Um, and so that's just one example.

You know, there's a lot of other more painful, but I think identity is actually um it impacts PKs more than people probably realize.

And I think that's a really important thing to stop and consider.

I love that.

Yeah, I know, because in your book, you give examples of lots of different things.

It's kind of a kind of a meme uh at this point to talk about church business meetings and things like that and how weird things can happen in them that are also painful, especially if anybody's like, you know what, I'm upset at the pastor, and you're like, hey, that's my dad, you know, that you're upset with and you're publicly talking about that or whatever.

Those are the things that maybe people have heard stories about or experience.

I like that you named that because that's kind of the constant slow drip for your whole life that you kept hearing that over and over and over again, that you almost had to kind of have a discovery like this is the core issue that is there.

Is there any other issues that you would name besides identity that the church can know about?

Well, I would say actually, um, I I do talk about business meetings in my book.

I knew I remember that.

Yeah.

Most of us don't like business meetings, actually.

So um yeah, I and uh another thing I would just say too is spiritual pressure.

Um I would probably call out directly because I think that's kind of cultural in nature, and we have this unrealistic expectation of PKs to know more and to do more and to, you know, like I don't have more exposure to Bible instruction than like my peer who's being raised in church, right?

And I I shouldn't be the one called out in a small group setting because I don't have my Bible, right?

Or I don't have the Bible verse, you know, memorized.

And I I got called out one time for using my table of contents to like find a book of the Bible, like because of who my dad is.

But like I have conversations with my parents around the dinner table that are just like everyone else, you know, we don't actually just sit around and like quiz each other on Bible verses.

So, and that's how it felt sometimes.

Um, and I think it was more hurtful coming from your peers, it's like one thing, but when it comes from adults, um that was hurtful, and that happened to me more times than I can count, where I was called out or expected to behave in a different way because of who my dad was um and his role in the church.

And I think we just gotta be better about that because it's unrealistic and it it causes you to harbor resentment.

Um, and that's kind of the situation I found myself in.

I was being forced into this box that wasn't me, and this box, and when you feel like there's a standard um that you're supposed to strive to meet, but it's unattainable, it makes you you know throw your hands up.

Why even try?

Yeah.

So can't win, so why even try?

One of the things that we talk about in our staff, you know, all of our ministerial staff, many of them have kids, and kind of our behind-the-scenes rule of thumb is we want their kids to be able to one day say, I am so grateful that my parent was on staff here.

It was a blessing, it was a privilege.

So that's kind of the goal, and we talk about that.

And even uh when my kids were still little and young and at home with me, we were trying to make it be that way.

And sometimes it's just very difficult to do that.

And that both of my kids had uniquely different experiences.

You know, my son would live here at the church if I would let him, you know.

And maybe part of that was because one of the ways I tried to make it a blessing for him to have his dad as the pastor is that I got gym access.

You know, we can go shoot ball together.

Where do you want to go?

Let's go, we'll go shoot ball, and things like that.

Uh, and tried to make that for Molly as well.

But Eve, that is one thing we can do.

I think what we're doing right now is very good.

It's kind of teaching and sort of having the stories be presented.

But what else would you say churches could do practically to make this better across the board?

Well, just as a note, um, I wrote this book for church members.

That's my audience.

When I submitted my proposal to my publisher, um, I really thought about this because people have asked me, oh, should I buy this for a PK in my life?

And the answer is sure.

Like I think it could be helpful in some ways.

It's not probably going to teach them anything that they haven't already experienced at some point.

Um, pastors as well, you know, there hasn't been a single pastor or PK that's read my book so far who has not had a similar experience.

Yeah.

So um I wrote it for church members.

And when I wrote it, it was written very strategically, um, where I wanted there to be practical and actionable things you can take away and implement immediately.

It's also why I wrote it uh and structured it the way I did.

The original proposal that I um submitted to the publisher was for 40,000 words.

And he called me, and not in these words, but he was like, hey, nobody's gonna read that.

It's way too long.

Cut that down a little bit, huh?

He was like, it's way too long.

We need to be able to get it in the hands of you know, people who have busy lives and parents and any just anybody who attends church, you can really read it in a sitting if you want to.

Um, and so I think that we have to meet PKs where they are and we have to be intentional about that.

And so through the book, I have like a suggestion for your church.

There's like little text boxes, and it's just like quick and easy things that church members can do to either support PKs in a specific season of life, or maybe things that you can think about and change, because there are some, like there is a call for change in the book.

Um, and there are some things that I think we absolutely need to change and we need to be better about doing when talking to PKs.

And one of them I talk about is meeting them where they are, feeling loved and accepted for who they are, not like whatever version of them you want to see.

Um and that that's a big one, I think.

And that kind of goes back to the whole spiritual pressure thing I was talking about.

But even down to like, I mean, I've had comments about everything, how I drive, how I dress, how I, you know, everything.

Like meet them where they are and give them the space to make mistakes, give them the space to learn and grow, just like every other kid in church gets to.

Um, I think that's very important for their own spiritual development.

I love that.

Get to know them for who they are, build a relationship with them that is just because of them, not because of who their dad is.

You know, I love that.

Um I want to shift gears here, and maybe this makes it a little bit more pointed and personal, but it hit me that you could easily.

Not be here doing this right now, you know, that, and I think in this room we could probably have multiple stories of people that have experienced some version of what maybe could be labeled church hurt, where there were some experience with church, someone who's in church that did something, said something, and they found it painful.

And it'd be so easy to run from that.

And yet you're here.

I know you and your family are at Florence Baptist Church and just so involved there.

You're a part of church still, but more importantly, you have a deep abiding walk with Jesus still.

Can you tell the story of like how did that still happen, even though you had those experiences?

Yeah.

Um so first and foremost, I do spend a lot of time in my book talking about hard and difficult things that PK's experience.

However, there's all there's also so much good, you know, and I try to take a moment in the book to call those out as well.

Um one of the biggest differences for me was people that I refer to as the difference makers in my life and people who um walked with me through seasons, supported me through life, you know, got to know me for me, um, really took interest in Brittany and not necessarily Brittany, the pastor's daughter.

Um, those I taught, I give personal, you know, stories about everything from like Sherry sitting with me on my first day at Summit View Middle School in the cafeteria by myself because my family had just relocated.

Um, and I didn't have any friends, and it was the first day of school, and she came and sat with me.

Um, and obviously so much more after that.

But that was just like a huge, I still remember it.

She probably had no idea then like how much she was doing for me.

Um, but people who, you know, engaged with my my children once I once I became a mom, and I was still an adult PK, because adult PK brings like a whole nother season of weirdness sometimes.

Um so you know, that was just a different, unique season.

But I think the difference makers, and then also just making the decision that, you know, what I know to be true about God and what I believe in my heart that Jesus died for me, that he saved me, and that I know my relationship with Jesus is so important.

I'm not gonna let someone else dictate what that looks like for me.

Yeah.

Because abandoning church, abandoning my faith, there were times I certainly had no interest in being at church, if I'm being completely honest.

Um, how am I supposed to walk into a sanctuary after I just sat through a five-hour business meeting of person after person name calling and making personal attacks against my family?

You know?

Um, so I certainly had moments where I didn't want to be there.

Um, but at the end of the day, the failure of Christians doesn't change the character of Christ.

Wow.

And so that for me was the decision maker.

And also becoming a mom knowing that that's what I wanted for my kids.

Like there was never a question about that.

Yeah.

And so, um, yeah, and just a lot of prayer through it all, really.

I love it.

I love it.

What a great quote that the failure of Christians doesn't change the character of Christ.

That's a good thing to remember.

Um, probably my favorite part of your book is at the very end, you write out a prayer, a really nice, amazing, long prayer that I'm not gonna read.

You're gonna have to check it out yourself, guys.

But it is so good.

Uh, and I don't I don't cry easily, and I found myself feeling so many emotions, reading that prayer, thinking of my own kids' experiences, having known you and thinking about you.

Um, and so I was gonna ask you, what would you invite everyone here to be praying for uh when it comes to this?

Because I do think that's you said it just a minute ago that you just you never stopped praying.

You stayed in communion with God, you stayed in connection with God and had your own personal walk with him.

How what should we as a church be praying for regarding this issue?

I think that when it comes to churches supporting pastors' families, pastors' kids specifically, um, praying for opportunities is um a great place to start.

Everybody, every PK, you know, is in a different kind of stage of life.

And so that looks different for all of us.

But, you know, I talk about like ways you can support PKs through relocation.

If you have a new family at your church that's in ministry and like how that impacts their kids, you know, I I was re-relocated twice growing up, once to come here, and then once when my family left here, um, we were relocated again.

And though that was really hard.

And that's like not necessarily something any of us can change or control.

You know, the ministry has a way of moving you, but it is something that I think being aware of certain things and how they impact PKs, um, you can help support them through that.

So I say that because there's a lot of different ways that we can minister to PKs and praying for opportunities.

And I'm doing this as well because I now have a pastor and he has children.

Um, and I want to make sure to be support as supportive of them as possible.

But when it comes to church hurt, because I know that we're kind of talking about that in general, there, you know, might not be a lot of PKs who can relate to this here today, but there's probably people who have uh experienced church hurt.

And my biggest prayers that have helped me personally are praying for the ability to heal without bitterness.

And I think when we say that, we have to be really careful to also call out that doesn't mean that we pretend it didn't happen.

It doesn't mean that we excuse bad behavior.

Um, it doesn't mean that we turn around and trust people who just hurt us.

Um, but it does mean that we ask God to help us not allow that hurt to harden our hearts.

Wow.

Um and I also think asking God, this is something I'm still doing, um, to give us the courage to trust again.

I've had a very hard time even as a PK, which you think that's like the easiest scenario to get connected in church.

It was very difficult for me.

Um I've had a lot of bad Sunday school experiences, and Sunday school is still hard for me.

Um it was hard for me as a kid, it's hard for me now, it's just hard.

Um, and so praying that God will give you the courage to trust again and know that good, strong Christian community does exist.

Um, I think is the most important because at the end of the day, people are gonna let us down.

Church might let us down from time to time.

Um, but like I said, that doesn't change who got who God is and what we know to be true about Him.

And so those are those are my biggest prayers, I think, when it comes to the topic of hurt in general.

I love it.

I love it.

What we're gonna do is take a moment to pray.

I'm so grateful for you sharing your story and you guys be able, we'll be able to go to the lobby after the service is over in just a few moments and be able to talk to Brittany if you want.

Uh definitely check out her book.

She'll be selling it out there.

And she's the ones she has brought, she's signed every one of them and just have a conversation.

But that is so good to be reminded to pray for to be able to trust again.

I like that.

And that might be where you are.

Maybe when we prayed earlier about what you were holding in your hand, maybe it was some type of fear, but that fear was embedded in like I just am afraid to trust again.

I'm afraid to open myself up again because I don't want to get hurt again.

Um, so so why don't we pray for that right now?

And Brittany, I want to be praying for you as you continue in this ministry of spreading this story, that your story is so good, that God will continue to use it in other places.

So let's pray now.

Uh, Father, I thank you for for Brittany.

I thank you for her story.

I thank you for how she has shared it so well with us today in a powerful way.

And I ask God that as she continues to uh share this story, share her book, go to other churches, that you use her voice to speak to those who might be carrying some of the same hurt.

Lord, bless her as she continues to share that story.

And I ask that you continue to heal her and enable her to continue to build trust again.

Father, in this very room we may be having others who are carrying such similar things.

Lord, we ask that you help us to trust again, to feel your peace again, and to continue to know that though others may fail us, you never fail.

We love you, and we ask this in Jesus' name.

Amen.

Hey, can we give a big thank you to Brittany for being with us today?

Thank you so much, buddy.

Appreciate you.

As she's stepping down, I want to read to you one scripture before our worship team leads us in another worship song.

It's very unique.

It's actually after Moses heard God speaking from the burning bush.

And he told him, You're on holy ground, and Moses took off his shoes and approached the burning bush.

This is the first thing that Moses heard from God.

It's on your screen.

Then the Lord said, I have observed the misery of my people in Egypt, and have heard them crying out because of their oppressors.

I know about their sufferings, and I have come down to rescue them from the power of the Egyptians and to bring them from that land to a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey.

This was the reason for the Exodus.

This was the reason of the deliverance.

It was because God had heard the cries of his people and he was responding.

And the story is an interesting story.

They had been crying out to him for a long time before he spoke to Moses from the burning bush.

Moses, when he was used by God to march them out of Egypt, man, they were in the wilderness a long time before they entered into the promised land.

And yet, this is the story that God was writing.

He knows everything about your circumstances.

He will not leave you in Egypt forever.

So I encourage you and me both, let's pray and cry out to God.

Let's watch for the moment that we're supposed to walk with him out of the Egypt that we've been in and not stay there any longer.

I don't know what that looks like for you, but the moment he says, Come on, I'm leading you out of that, we walk with him in that.

And it might mean that what we're walking him into isn't like we're suddenly all better.

No, you might spend some time in the wilderness first, but the promised land is coming.

Healing is coming, restoration is coming, and it's made possible by the God who stepped out of that tomb so long ago that we sang about.

So, as we stand together, I invite you to do that right now, as we sing his praises once again before we leave this place, what is it he's calling you to walk out of and into in his name?