Is the cross of Jesus based on the Zodiac cross?

Welcome to the C3 Church podcast.

Our vision as a church is to practice the way of Jesus so that we experience the fame and deeds of God in our time.

My name is Colton Seegers.

And I'm Raimi Seegers.

And over the next couple of episodes, we wanted to do a question and response for the people in our church community.

And so what we did is we asked our church to submit questions, and these are our responses to a handful of questions that we received.

Love y'all.

Enjoy the podcast.

Alright, next question is what would you say to someone who claims the symbol of the cross is a pagan symbol drawn from the zodiac?

You studied the zodiac lately.

In my extensive studies of the zodiac, I have a lot to offer here.

I don't know anything about this.

That does not bother me.

I don't know if that's true.

If it is true, that bothers me zero percent.

Which part?

Just if somebody claims.

Yeah, if someone was like, Do you know the cross is taken from the zodiac?

That's cool, man.

Yeah.

That I've no idea.

Not bothered by that.

I have no idea if that's true.

Not bothered by that whatsoever.

Yeah.

Um would love to have that conversation with somebody that that actually that really felt that way.

Or like really like has studied zodiac, like astrology.

Is it astrology?

Okay.

Um that makes me feel no threat whatsoever, kind of for two reasons.

Number one, um, an awful lot of our faith, more than we realize, is based on Christians really sort of cleverly appropriating pagan things.

A lot of the hymns you know were bar songs, drinking songs, and they're like, Come on, drunk people love to sing this like dirty song about sailors.

We're gonna take this like swangy tune that people like and write like lift high the cross to it.

That's I mean, and so if they're like, Do you know this is a bar song?

Yeah, who cares?

Um, we turn it into the old rugged cross.

Well, absolutely.

Um, and I think we see Paul do that when he says in Acts, I don't remember where, um, but he's talking to these people who believe in Greek mythology who've set up this tomb to the unknown God.

And he's like, Hey, I'll tell you about your idea.

Clearly, y'all are concerned about offending a God you aren't familiar with.

I'll tell you about the God you're not familiar with.

And so, like, he very cleverly assimilates or appropriates or takes something pagan and uses that as a way to explain Jesus or faith in a way that people would that his audience would connect to or care about.

I actually think Christianity has a rich history of doing that.

I I don't find that threatening or diminishing at all.

Um, if it's true, I I have no idea if it's true.

Is the cross-linked zodiac if it is, I don't feel threatened or or bothered by that at all.

Um, number two, I think we need to remember um the early Christians had uh a lot of what's validating about our faith and the facts of our faith is that the early Christians had nothing to gain.

They had every by like maintaining this story about Jesus and linking their lives to it, they had everything to lose, they had nothing to gain, they lived in shame, they faced starvation.

I mean certainly the easiest thing to do would be deny it and bail.

Um and so to be continuing to worship not just a dead leader, but an executed leader, and not just an executed leader, but he was executed in the most embarrassing, lowbrow, shameful, bucknecked way possible.

Like this is really embarrassing.

Yeah, not only is he dead, he was executed, and not only was he executed, he was executed the most shameful, embarrassing way possible.

For them to still claim that the cross is their symbol, why would they do that if it weren't true?

You have nothing to gain.

It would be like someone you love got hung and you wore a noose around your neck for the rest of your life.

Like, why would you do this?

Everybody would think you're crazy.

Yeah, this is actually really like morbid and negative.

There is no that well, they did it because of Yeah, there's no good answer.

Because of what?

Right, they gained nothing, yeah.

And then to claim he was resurrected, which no one believed in, then they sound even dumber.

They just stood nothing to they've nothing to gain from this, and so their willingness to stand by the facts of something that only cost them and did not benefit them, um, is in itself validating.

Yeah.

Um, and so I have every reason to believe he really was crucified.

Why would they they'd why would they say it if it weren't true?

Um, but if the cross has a link to the zodiac, that's I agree that the zodiac is more ancient, it predates Christ's crucifixion by several hundred years, and so that that's cool.

The study of astrology.

Yeah, that's fine.

Um, that's probably what the wise men were up to.

They're probably astrologers, you know.

Looking at the stars.

Yeah, looking at the stars, seeking star signs.

Um if that's true, I feel no problem.

That doesn't make me feel upset at all.

I agree.

I think um we don't have time to go on this right now, but like I do think that, and and I want to say this very clearly.

I I believe that every religion I think every religion points in some form or fashion to the real true triune God.

Yes.

I do not believe that every religion leads to the same God.

And they're not all saying the same thing.

And they're not all saying the same thing, but I do think there are things that exist in different religions, and I'm going, God has placed inside or are you he has given something, some arrow pointing to him because he wants you all to believe in him, not this religion.

He wants this religion to be like, I began in Buddhism and became very self-controlled and very relinquishing of myself and compassionate and all these different things.

And then I found the teachings of Jesus and realized this began in him.

Like this was if if if if this is like and again, I don't know it as much as you know it, but like there are things that I think if uh all truth is God's truth, then there are certain truths in religions that God has placed there to lead people from that particular religion or faith towards Him.

Again, very clearly, uh there is only one way to the Father, and that is through Jesus the Son.

Um but wise people of other mindsets have gotten a whiff of the truth.

They have caught a scent of the truth.

Yes, they've caught a scent of the truth in a generalized way, and so you do see legends of, you know, in Hinduism, Shiva puts himself between the earth and the the Ganges River is falling to earth, it's gonna drown the earth.

And so he he gathers the pressure of the Ganges in his hair and and you know puts himself between the earth and destruction.

There, there is there are whispers of the truth in other in pagan things, as wise people have gotten near and gone.

We're sort of attracted to a god that would sacrifice himself, and yes, we are.

Yes, you are.

Yes, you are.

Um yeah, I mean, to the cross, I would say I don't think crucifixion was something I and again I have not researched this, and so I I guess I will now, but um and so if if somebody can s show me where crucifixions happened outside of the Roman Empire, I'd actually love to know that.

Yeah, I think the Romans perfected crucifixion, they perfected death.

They love to make a good example of you.

And so I don't believe that when astrology and that uh thing was was happening, that that began the crucif crucifying deaths that were happening.

I think the Romans adopted or uh adapted a thing, created a thing.

And so in crucifixion, being crucified on a cross or on a tree was the most shameful way to die because it showed that you were the worst criminal that's ever existed in human history, and they shamed you to the uttermost.

As much as they could possibly shame a person, you're naked before they did it publicly people would see it to show that, like, hey, just so you know, Rome rules this ish, and so y'all need to know this is.

And if you were thinking about not paying your taxes, you walking home from work down a highway lined with shrieking.

People who didn't pay their taxes, yeah.

Look, all of a sudden people get really happy and pay their taxes.

I'll pay my taxes, yeah.

And so I think to your point, like, there's no why would they ever, why would Christianity ever adopt the cross as well?

If this weren't true, the only reason to adopt it is like because Jesus actually was crucified on the cross and rose on the third day.

Like Paul says in Romans, like, he's writing to Roman Christians in Rome who were probably very ashamed of a crucified.

Who's your God again?

Oh, that guy that was crucified the other day?

Like, he's writing to those people.

Yeah, he was, but then he came back.

But they say he came back.

This is not a good thing.

It was only for a month for um This is a bad lie.

But he's saying, I am not ashamed of the gospel because he needs to say Don't be embarrassed.

I recognize that the cross is foolishness to you guys, but what God has done is he's taken the foolish things of the world to actually shame the wise.

And so I the connection I have no idea about to the other thing.

Um, but I do think that like, why do Christians have that?

It has nothing to do with astrology, as it has everything to do with, hey, our Savior literally was crucified on a tree to the point of his own death that looked like there's no one people might come back from like subtle deaths, but like he's real dead, and yet even crucified the way he was, shamed the way he was, he rose again on this, and so the cross now testifies to God has punished once and for all all the sins of the world, and through his sacrifice he has made righteous um all of those who would come to Jesus and come to the Father through him.

And so um, I think that's that is well, I don't think that that is why they use the cross as it doesn't it doesn't have anything to do, they're not using it because astrology also did this thing.

Um they use this thing because Jesus was actually crucified them.

Amen.

And so that's what I'm believe on that.

But um, if you have more info, whoever wrote this question, if you're we'd love to learn I know tons about the zodiac.

Cool.

Um please take me to lunch or coffee.

And I yeah, I would love to have uh conversation about this um because I find it really interesting.

But thank you for asking the question.

I really appreciate it.

Yeah.