EP 34: SCC Savor, Month 9, Days 1-6 with Special Guest Dennis Ireland

Allen: we'll see. Maybe we will see.

Dennis: we'll see. Maybe we will see.

Allen: Well, welcome back to the SCC Saver Podcast, where we are savoring God through every bite of scripture. As always, I'm one of your co-hosts, Alan, Pastoral Apprentice at Sanibel Community Church. And I'm delighted to bring you all someone who you've not heard on this podcast before, a familiar face and friend to Sanibel Community Church. However, new to the podcast, so who am I looking at here? Who is who is I'm I'm getting a little bit of tension.

Dennis: Well, welcome back to the SCC Saver Podcast, where we are savoring God through every bite of scripture. As always, I'm one of your co-hosts, Alan, Pastoral Apprentice at Sanibel Community Church. And I'm delighted to bring you all someone who you've not heard on this podcast before, a familiar face and friend to Sanibel Community Church. However, new to the podcast, so who am I looking at here? Who is who is I'm I'm getting a little bit of tension.

Allen: Suspense. Everyone's like, who is this? Who who am I talking to? Who would I have the pleasure and delight of talking to? Hey y'all, this is Dennis Ireland, and I'm thankful for this opportunity to work through this and learn how about podcasts. That's great. First podcast for you. First ever. Welcome to the podcast world. However, this is not your first time talking about the Bible. No. No. How okay, how long have you been I'm using that term

Dennis: Suspense. Everyone's like, who is this? Who who am I talking to? Who would I have the pleasure and delight of talking to? Hey y'all, this is Dennis Ireland, and I'm thankful for this opportunity to work through this and learn how about podcasts. That's great. First podcast for you. First ever. Welcome to the podcast world. However, this is not your first time talking about the Bible. No. No. How okay, how long have you been I'm using that term

Allen: loosely talking about the Bible. It but y how long? Well, professionally, I don't know how many years it would be, but it has been a long time. Okay. like over under ten, fifteen Well at seventeen teaching at RTS Jackson, Reform Them Theological Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi, and then two years of teaching Bible in a Christian school before that. And

Dennis: loosely talking about the Bible. It but y how long? Well, professionally, I don't know how many years it would be, but it has been a long time. Okay. like over under ten, fifteen Well at seventeen teaching at RTS Jackson, Reform Them Theological Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi, and then two years of teaching Bible in a Christian school before that. And

Allen: While I was working on my PhD, did some adjunct work at a local college. So somewhere over twenty, I sus I suspect. Wow. Praise God. Twenty years of teaching the word of God. That's so cool. Well, I know you all are gonna be blessed by this. And you've taught, you know, Sunday school classes here before, so people know people know you a little bit, especially with your work on Hebrews, which we're excited to have you on about. But yeah, t over twenty years of teaching the word and so we know that you're gonna bring us some great insights and just

Dennis: While I was working on my PhD, did some adjunct work at a local college. So somewhere over twenty, I sus I suspect. Wow. Praise God. Twenty years of teaching the word of God. That's so cool. Well, I know you all are gonna be blessed by this. And you've taught, you know, Sunday school classes here before, so people know people know you a little bit, especially with your work on Hebrews, which we're excited to have you on about. But yeah, t over twenty years of teaching the word and so we know that you're gonna bring us some great insights and just

Allen: Looks into scriptures. couple questions, get to know you a little bit, have some of our our listeners to to get to know you j some more. When did you come to know the Lord? When were you saved? I was probably about ten or eleven years old. Okay. My father was a Baptist pastor in northern Maine, which is where I grew up, and he faithfully preached the gospel and in one Sunday morning service when I was probably ten or eleven, I was sitting in the back row and

Dennis: Looks into scriptures. couple questions, get to know you a little bit, have some of our our listeners to to get to know you j some more. When did you come to know the Lord? When were you saved? I was probably about ten or eleven years old. Okay. My father was a Baptist pastor in northern Maine, which is where I grew up, and he faithfully preached the gospel and in one Sunday morning service when I was probably ten or eleven, I was sitting in the back row and

Allen: understood for the first time, having heard the gospel many times before, but understood for the first time that I was a sinner, deserved God's judgment, and that Christ had died for sinners and offered me forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ. And so I walked the aisle as they say. My father didn't do an invitation every Sunday, but he did that Sunday. Okay.

Dennis: understood for the first time, having heard the gospel many times before, but understood for the first time that I was a sinner, deserved God's judgment, and that Christ had died for sinners and offered me forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ. And so I walked the aisle as they say. My father didn't do an invitation every Sunday, but he did that Sunday. Okay.

Allen: And so I'm very thankful for his faithful ministry. He was in that church about thirty years eventually. And I'm very thankful for his faithful ministry of the gospel. And someday I'm going to thank him. Yeah. In person again for that faithful ministry. Man, praise God. That's so sweet. That's cool. and then when did you meet your wife? I met Sandy in college at Gordon College in Massachusetts.

Dennis: And so I'm very thankful for his faithful ministry. He was in that church about thirty years eventually. And I'm very thankful for his faithful ministry of the gospel. And someday I'm going to thank him. Yeah. In person again for that faithful ministry. Man, praise God. That's so sweet. That's cool. and then when did you meet your wife? I met Sandy in college at Gordon College in Massachusetts.

Allen: I was the undergrad of Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. Well there's they're separate schools. they are. There was a time when it was Gordon College and Gordon Divinity School. Okay. d but they separated some time before I went to Gordon and they were on separate campuses. So the college and seminary were separate from one another. Mm-hmm. so we met in a small chapel group. I was a year ahead of her. She was we didn't really date at Gordon.

Dennis: I was the undergrad of Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. Well there's they're separate schools. they are. There was a time when it was Gordon College and Gordon Divinity School. Okay. d but they separated some time before I went to Gordon and they were on separate campuses. So the college and seminary were separate from one another. Mm-hmm. so we met in a small chapel group. I was a year ahead of her. She was we didn't really date at Gordon.

Allen: She transferred to Wheaton College. And when then when I finished at Gordon College, I went to Trin Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois, a wonderful ministry of the Evangelical Free Church. And we got reacquainted there at Deerfield, where Ted's is and Wheaton are only about an hour apart. And we started dating there and got married.

Dennis: She transferred to Wheaton College. And when then when I finished at Gordon College, I went to Trin Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois, a wonderful ministry of the Evangelical Free Church. And we got reacquainted there at Deerfield, where Ted's is and Wheaton are only about an hour apart. And we started dating there and got married.

Allen: after two years of my seminary, she graduated had graduated a year before. And the rest is history. We just last month celebrated our fiftieth anniversary. Half a century of marriage. I told her she stuck with me now. Year fifty. Forty nine

Dennis: after two years of my seminary, she graduated had graduated a year before. And the rest is history. We just last month celebrated our fiftieth anniversary. Half a century of marriage. I told her she stuck with me now. Year fifty. Forty nine

Allen: She wasn't, but now that it's fifty, she's stuck. She didn't read the fine print. All right. You got fifty years of marriage wisdom. I gotta bring this out. The number one piece of advice you'd give to a long, sustained, healthy marriage, you only get one. You're on your dying bed. You gotta give one piece of advice.

Dennis: She wasn't, but now that it's fifty, she's stuck. She didn't read the fine print. All right. You got fifty years of marriage wisdom. I gotta bring this out. The number one piece of advice you'd give to a long, sustained, healthy marriage, you only get one. You're on your dying bed. You gotta give one piece of advice.

Allen: F the first word that comes to my mind is compromise. Okay.

Dennis: F the first word that comes to my mind is compromise. Okay.

Allen: You have to be willing to listen to the other person and take what they may be saying as better than what you're thinking. So of course it's prayer and all the spiritual kinds of things, but practically speaking it's compromise along the way. Compromise along the way. Not compromise of biblical truth, but being willing to listen and go with what someone else may be saying. Mm. It's good. Compromise, you all heard it. There you go.

Dennis: You have to be willing to listen to the other person and take what they may be saying as better than what you're thinking. So of course it's prayer and all the spiritual kinds of things, but practically speaking it's compromise along the way. Compromise along the way. Not compromise of biblical truth, but being willing to listen and go with what someone else may be saying. Mm. It's good. Compromise, you all heard it. There you go.

Allen: This is free game. This a free podcast, by the way. We're dishing out 50 years of marriage advice for free. You need to start charging for this, Dennis. You're gonna start collecting up collections after this. No, no. All right. Well, we're we're I'm grateful getting to having get to get to know you a little bit here these last few months. And just real quick, how long have you been a member of SEC? Since 2018. Cool. Nice. Awesome. Well, we're we're gonna

Dennis: This is free game. This a free podcast, by the way. We're dishing out 50 years of marriage advice for free. You need to start charging for this, Dennis. You're gonna start collecting up collections after this. No, no. All right. Well, we're we're I'm grateful getting to having get to get to know you a little bit here these last few months. And just real quick, how long have you been a member of SEC? Since 2018. Cool. Nice. Awesome. Well, we're we're gonna

Allen: Dennis is gonna hop in and comment on this text. And we're we're month nine. this is days one through six. So what we're gonna comment on is Isaiah one through sixteen. So we're gonna introduce that book. we're we worked through some Proverbs 18 through 21. in the New Testament, we're gonna talk about Luke twenty twenty-seven through twenty-two, thirteen, and then Hebrews one through four. And that's Dennis' specialty is the the the letter.

Dennis: Dennis is gonna hop in and comment on this text. And we're we're month nine. this is days one through six. So what we're gonna comment on is Isaiah one through sixteen. So we're gonna introduce that book. we're we worked through some Proverbs 18 through 21. in the New Testament, we're gonna talk about Luke twenty twenty-seven through twenty-two, thirteen, and then Hebrews one through four. And that's Dennis' specialty is the the the letter.

Allen: you call it a book or do you just call it a letter? Letter. If I say book, is it am I committing heresy? No. Okay. But it's letter. Mm-hmm. The letter to the Hebrews. It's a letter that doesn't begin like a standard New Testament letter. There's no introduction. True. Yeah. But it ends like a letter. So it's

Dennis: you call it a book or do you just call it a letter? Letter. If I say book, is it am I committing heresy? No. Okay. But it's letter. Mm-hmm. The letter to the Hebrews. It's a letter that doesn't begin like a standard New Testament letter. There's no introduction. True. Yeah. But it ends like a letter. So it's

Allen: Usually viewed as a sermon that is the the the substance of a sermon that's given as a in letter form. Cool. Well, we'll get into that more once we go and talk about that. So we're we're actually gonna jump in is Isaiah. So we just started a a new section of biblical genre that we haven't really worked through yet, which is here the major prophets. We've got the major prophets, we've got the minor prophets, and that's merely based on size, not on importance. So Isaiah is a ma major prophet here.

Dennis: Usually viewed as a sermon that is the the the substance of a sermon that's given as a in letter form. Cool. Well, we'll get into that more once we go and talk about that. So we're we're actually gonna jump in is Isaiah. So we just started a a new section of biblical genre that we haven't really worked through yet, which is here the major prophets. We've got the major prophets, we've got the minor prophets, and that's merely based on size, not on importance. So Isaiah is a ma major prophet here.

Allen: And so we have Isaiah, who infamously many people probably know who Isaiah is. He's called by God. He's a man with unclean lips, right? He's got that encounter with the Lord in Isaiah six when the seraphim are flying above him, and he's then called into the ministry to be a prophet. But just kind of speaking about biblical prophecy here, we w just what old testament prophecy is and then how to read old testament prophecy. We were speaking about, or we're gonna speak about foretelling and forth telling.

Dennis: And so we have Isaiah, who infamously many people probably know who Isaiah is. He's called by God. He's a man with unclean lips, right? He's got that encounter with the Lord in Isaiah six when the seraphim are flying above him, and he's then called into the ministry to be a prophet. But just kind of speaking about biblical prophecy here, we w just what old testament prophecy is and then how to read old testament prophecy. We were speaking about, or we're gonna speak about foretelling and forth telling.

Allen: Dennis, what's the difference between foretelling and foretelling? Most people, when they think when they hear the word prophecy, particularly when talking about the Bible, they immediately think of f foretelling, predicting future events, often far in the future. And that is, of course, an important piece of what the prophets did, an important part of what they did. But prophecy is various numbers by and large.

Dennis: Dennis, what's the difference between foretelling and foretelling? Most people, when they think when they hear the word prophecy, particularly when talking about the Bible, they immediately think of f foretelling, predicting future events, often far in the future. And that is, of course, an important piece of what the prophets did, an important part of what they did. But prophecy is various numbers by and large.

Allen: Forth telling, applying the word of God to God's people then and there, and warning them and calling them to repentance. So the standard for the prophet's message was the Mosaic covenant, the Mosaic Law, calling them back to obedience to the law given to the people of Israel at Sinai. So the the fourth telling aspect of it is

Dennis: Forth telling, applying the word of God to God's people then and there, and warning them and calling them to repentance. So the standard for the prophet's message was the Mosaic covenant, the Mosaic Law, calling them back to obedience to the law given to the people of Israel at Sinai. So the the fourth telling aspect of it is

Allen: Is more important. There's there's, I think, a very good illustration of what prophets do in the experience of Moses and Aaron way back in chapter Exodus, the beginning chapters. people will remember that Moses was called by God to to speak to Pharaoh, and people will remember that Moses came up with all kinds of excuses.

Dennis: Is more important. There's there's, I think, a very good illustration of what prophets do in the experience of Moses and Aaron way back in chapter Exodus, the beginning chapters. people will remember that Moses was called by God to to speak to Pharaoh, and people will remember that Moses came up with all kinds of excuses.

Allen: One of them was he wasn't a good speaker. And so God told him basically that Aaron is going to be your speaker. Aaron is going to speak for you. And in particular in Exodus chapter seven, the the opening verses of that chapter we read the first verse, Exodus seven, verse one, and the Lord said to Moses, see how

Dennis: One of them was he wasn't a good speaker. And so God told him basically that Aaron is going to be your speaker. Aaron is going to speak for you. And in particular in Exodus chapter seven, the the opening verses of that chapter we read the first verse, Exodus seven, verse one, and the Lord said to Moses, see how

Allen: Have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet, and you shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall tell Pharaoh to let the people of Israel go. Aaron is there defined or explained as a prophet, and the procedure was that God was going to speak to Moses, and Moses was going to speak to Aaron, and Aaron was going to be, as it were,

Dennis: Have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet, and you shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall tell Pharaoh to let the people of Israel go. Aaron is there defined or explained as a prophet, and the procedure was that God was going to speak to Moses, and Moses was going to speak to Aaron, and Aaron was going to be, as it were,

Allen: Moses prophet in speaking in his place. So a prophet really fundamentally is a spokesperson. Like a mouthpiece. A mouthpiece, a messenger from God. And that's why the prophets so say so often, thus says the Lord. Yeah. So that what they're saying is not what's important, but what they're saying is relaying God's message. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, that that they're

Dennis: Moses prophet in speaking in his place. So a prophet really fundamentally is a spokesperson. Like a mouthpiece. A mouthpiece, a messenger from God. And that's why the prophets so say so often, thus says the Lord. Yeah. So that what they're saying is not what's important, but what they're saying is relaying God's message. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, that that they're

Allen: their spokesman, they're the mouthpiece for bringing God's law to bear in their contemporary situations. It's it's not trying to give you all the events of the future, although it does sometimes, but the primary thing is like listen to what God is saying for you right now. A word and season, you might be able to call it. Yes. And important an important part of Israel's mission, if you will, was to reflect God's holiness in their own conduct. And so

Dennis: their spokesman, they're the mouthpiece for bringing God's law to bear in their contemporary situations. It's it's not trying to give you all the events of the future, although it does sometimes, but the primary thing is like listen to what God is saying for you right now. A word and season, you might be able to call it. Yes. And important an important part of Israel's mission, if you will, was to reflect God's holiness in their own conduct. And so

Allen: Often their sin not only

Dennis: Often their sin not only

Allen: not only blurred the their own or hurt their own reputation, but it more importantly it hurt God's reputation. That's right. So that's why the prophets call Israel back to faithful obedience to God's law. and that obedience then was to be a mission to other nations to draw them to God.

Dennis: not only blurred the their own or hurt their own reputation, but it more importantly it hurt God's reputation. That's right. So that's why the prophets call Israel back to faithful obedience to God's law. and that obedience then was to be a mission to other nations to draw them to God.

Allen: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. And that's actually, you know, the situation that we find ourselves in with Isaiah, right? And that's kind of the main idea of Isaiah is it's this collection of oracles or prophecies declaring the people sinned against God. They were not obeying God. They were not reflecting God's holiness. They were supposed to be a s separate people and they needed to repent. They needed to repent in life of both judgment that God was going to bring and future restoration.

Dennis: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. And that's actually, you know, the situation that we find ourselves in with Isaiah, right? And that's kind of the main idea of Isaiah is it's this collection of oracles or prophecies declaring the people sinned against God. They were not obeying God. They were not reflecting God's holiness. They were supposed to be a s separate people and they needed to repent. They needed to repent in life of both judgment that God was going to bring and future restoration.

Allen: And so they're not reflecting God's holiness. And the actually in Isaiah, there's kind of two parts, two big movements to this, which is the the first part is chapters one through twenty-nine, which emphasizes sin, the call to repentance, and then judgment. And then the last half, 40 through 66, emphasizes this hope of restoration, which infamously everyone knows, you know, Isaiah 52 and 53, the suffering servant, right? And this is the future hope which would eventually point to.

Dennis: And so they're not reflecting God's holiness. And the actually in Isaiah, there's kind of two parts, two big movements to this, which is the the first part is chapters one through twenty-nine, which emphasizes sin, the call to repentance, and then judgment. And then the last half, 40 through 66, emphasizes this hope of restoration, which infamously everyone knows, you know, Isaiah 52 and 53, the suffering servant, right? And this is the future hope which would eventually point to.

Allen: To Christ as we come to know it in the New Testament. That's kind of the two movements, right? Is the hey, there's gonna be a judgment and then there's gonna be a restoration. And you kind of get kind of four four main ideas just throughout Isaiah, as you guys are reading through Isaiah and you're picking this up, is you're gonna see that Isaiah is accusing God's people of sin. he's gonna s call them out. There's judgments on these on on the on these nations, on the kingdoms, and then you're gonna see them instruct them to reform.

Dennis: To Christ as we come to know it in the New Testament. That's kind of the two movements, right? Is the hey, there's gonna be a judgment and then there's gonna be a restoration. And you kind of get kind of four four main ideas just throughout Isaiah, as you guys are reading through Isaiah and you're picking this up, is you're gonna see that Isaiah is accusing God's people of sin. he's gonna s call them out. There's judgments on these on on the on these nations, on the kingdoms, and then you're gonna see them instruct them to reform.

Allen: their ways and act obediently, right? He's calling them back to God's law. and then he's gonna announce j God's judgment on them and then finally the future restoration of the people. And so I think what's what's interesting even just kind of in reading Isaiah, because sometimes you can feel a little bit like a doom and gloom at at certain times, but then you realize God's grace in that is like, hey, he provides the way back and he also provides the way of restoration when they come in return to him, which is of course most emphasized

Dennis: their ways and act obediently, right? He's calling them back to God's law. and then he's gonna announce j God's judgment on them and then finally the future restoration of the people. And so I think what's what's interesting even just kind of in reading Isaiah, because sometimes you can feel a little bit like a doom and gloom at at certain times, but then you realize God's grace in that is like, hey, he provides the way back and he also provides the way of restoration when they come in return to him, which is of course most emphasized

Allen: in Christ and that he would preserve and offer the way of salvation through Christ. that's kind of big big idea on Isaiah, but Dennis, if you wanted to hop in, any other things as we're just thinking about big picture Isaiah, maybe theological themes seems that we should know. Well of course I Isaiah speaks a lot of the coming of Christ and the many of the well known passages that we have in in Isaiah, unto us a child is born and so forth.

Dennis: in Christ and that he would preserve and offer the way of salvation through Christ. that's kind of big big idea on Isaiah, but Dennis, if you wanted to hop in, any other things as we're just thinking about big picture Isaiah, maybe theological themes seems that we should know. Well of course I Isaiah speaks a lot of the coming of Christ and the many of the well known passages that we have in in Isaiah, unto us a child is born and so forth.

Allen: Yep. And the suffering servant passage, which is the passage that the Ethiopian eunuch is reading as he's headed home from Jerusalem in Acts chapter eight. And Philip, of course, comes and he overhears what he's what he's reading, and he begins with that text and explains Jesus. So Isaiah is very important in terms of the message of hope that he gives to.

Dennis: Yep. And the suffering servant passage, which is the passage that the Ethiopian eunuch is reading as he's headed home from Jerusalem in Acts chapter eight. And Philip, of course, comes and he overhears what he's what he's reading, and he begins with that text and explains Jesus. So Isaiah is very important in terms of the message of hope that he gives to.

Allen: not only f for Israel, but beyond that for Gentiles, because the eunuch himself was a Gentile and still enjoyed the blessings of of the gospel. So Isaiah is extraordinarily import important. It's quoted many, many times in the New Testament. Isaiah himself is mentioned by name

Dennis: not only f for Israel, but beyond that for Gentiles, because the eunuch himself was a Gentile and still enjoyed the blessings of of the gospel. So Isaiah is extraordinarily import important. It's quoted many, many times in the New Testament. Isaiah himself is mentioned by name

Allen: Over twenty times in the New Testament. I was reading while in my study this week, Isaiah is the most quoted New Testament book in in the old or the most quoted Old Testament book in the New. Yeah, I'm not surprised. I didn't know that, but that's not at all surprising. Yeah. And the message of Isaiah in calling Israel to repentance and obedience is not only their hope, but it's the hope of anyone.

Dennis: Over twenty times in the New Testament. I was reading while in my study this week, Isaiah is the most quoted New Testament book in in the old or the most quoted Old Testament book in the New. Yeah, I'm not surprised. I didn't know that, but that's not at all surprising. Yeah. And the message of Isaiah in calling Israel to repentance and obedience is not only their hope, but it's the hope of anyone.

Allen: So that their hope in the the branch and the messiah, their hope is the hope of any sinner who would.

Dennis: So that their hope in the the branch and the messiah, their hope is the hope of any sinner who would.

Allen: Stand before a holy God. So it's it's a message for Israel, but it's a universal message because it is the message at the root of it. It is the message of the gospel. Who could stand before a holy God? What is that answer? Well, that's that's what the that's the as Jeremy's emphasized a number of times, that's the question of the of the Bible. And and

Dennis: Stand before a holy God. So it's it's a message for Israel, but it's a universal message because it is the message at the root of it. It is the message of the gospel. Who could stand before a holy God? What is that answer? Well, that's that's what the that's the as Jeremy's emphasized a number of times, that's the question of the of the Bible. And and

Allen: The answer of the Bible is no one can stand before a holy God in themselves. God has to make a way that people can stand before him. And that, of course, is what what Christ has done. And, you know, that dovetails very nicely with the book of Hebrews, because the book of Hebrews answers that question.

Dennis: The answer of the Bible is no one can stand before a holy God in themselves. God has to make a way that people can stand before him. And that, of course, is what what Christ has done. And, you know, that dovetails very nicely with the book of Hebrews, because the book of Hebrews answers that question.

Allen: From the Old Testament, particularly the ceremonial law of the Old Testament, the sacrificial system of the Old Testament, which was God's provision to Israel as a temporary pointer, a foreshadowing of what Christ would do through his person and his work in in his incarnation and his and his life, his death and his resurrection and ascension.

Dennis: From the Old Testament, particularly the ceremonial law of the Old Testament, the sacrificial system of the Old Testament, which was God's provision to Israel as a temporary pointer, a foreshadowing of what Christ would do through his person and his work in in his incarnation and his and his life, his death and his resurrection and ascension.

Allen: So Isaiah, of course, is an important part of the argument or important part of the answer to that question, how can sinners stand before a holy God? Mm-hmm. only if God does something to provide a way for them, and that way, of course, is the Messiah, the branch, suffering servant. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amen. That's great. Speaking of of the holiness of of God, and maybe we can just conclude here in something that is unique about

Dennis: So Isaiah, of course, is an important part of the argument or important part of the answer to that question, how can sinners stand before a holy God? Mm-hmm. only if God does something to provide a way for them, and that way, of course, is the Messiah, the branch, suffering servant. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amen. That's great. Speaking of of the holiness of of God, and maybe we can just conclude here in something that is unique about

Allen: Isaiah that shows up and of course Isaiah six, a famous text, when Isaiah's vision he gets of the Lord and the Seraphim are are sitting above the throne and and the seraphim goes, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts. The whole earth is full of his glory, and the foundations of the threshold shook at the voice of him and called, and the house was filled with smoke, and I said, Woe is me, for I am lost, for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips, for my eyes have seen the king.

Dennis: Isaiah that shows up and of course Isaiah six, a famous text, when Isaiah's vision he gets of the Lord and the Seraphim are are sitting above the throne and and the seraphim goes, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts. The whole earth is full of his glory, and the foundations of the threshold shook at the voice of him and called, and the house was filled with smoke, and I said, Woe is me, for I am lost, for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips, for my eyes have seen the king.

Allen: The Lord of hosts. So we see Isaiah sees God's holiness and sees his unholiness and sees his dirtiness. interestingly, actually, holy, holy, holy is the only thrice repeated or three times repeated attribute of God in in the Bible. So it emphasizes his holiness. It's like how beautiful and how holy is God. And that's really what we're supposed to see, I think, in Isaiah's God is holy. We are not, therefore, we need him. And

Dennis: The Lord of hosts. So we see Isaiah sees God's holiness and sees his unholiness and sees his dirtiness. interestingly, actually, holy, holy, holy is the only thrice repeated or three times repeated attribute of God in in the Bible. So it emphasizes his holiness. It's like how beautiful and how holy is God. And that's really what we're supposed to see, I think, in Isaiah's God is holy. We are not, therefore, we need him. And

Allen: We see that in Christ, which is such a beautiful picture. We need help. We need we need help. I need help. We all need help. That's the whole point. Cool. well let's move on to the proverbs. here we read a few Proverbs, particularly eighteen through twenty one. there's anything as you were reading that that stuck out to you, just in your own kind of devotional reading in Proverbs.

Dennis: We see that in Christ, which is such a beautiful picture. We need help. We need we need help. I need help. We all need help. That's the whole point. Cool. well let's move on to the proverbs. here we read a few Proverbs, particularly eighteen through twenty one. there's anything as you were reading that that stuck out to you, just in your own kind of devotional reading in Proverbs.

Allen: Probab I'm struck again by how pithy and compact the proverbs are, so that you read through it and then you have to stop and think, what did he say? And the section that we're reading here are part of Solomon's Proverbs. He didn't write all the salt all the proverbs in this book. There are others towards the end of the book who contributed as well. So I think we

Dennis: Probab I'm struck again by how pithy and compact the proverbs are, so that you read through it and then you have to stop and think, what did he say? And the section that we're reading here are part of Solomon's Proverbs. He didn't write all the salt all the proverbs in this book. There are others towards the end of the book who contributed as well. So I think we

Allen: And I was reminded as well that Proverbs is not just general advice for good living. Right. It's in a biblical context, it is how God's people, Jews, believing Jews, and Christians, how they are to live to the glory of God as a demonstration that we in do indeed do fear God. the the fear of God, fear of the Lord.

Dennis: And I was reminded as well that Proverbs is not just general advice for good living. Right. It's in a biblical context, it is how God's people, Jews, believing Jews, and Christians, how they are to live to the glory of God as a demonstration that we in do indeed do fear God. the the fear of God, fear of the Lord.

Allen: Yahweh, a God's covenant names. So it's a fear of a covenant making and a covenant keeping God. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And then that wisdom is fleshed out in very concrete terms by the various proverbs. And I was struck again as I read through this, several things keep coming up, several themes keep recurring.

Dennis: Yahweh, a God's covenant names. So it's a fear of a covenant making and a covenant keeping God. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And then that wisdom is fleshed out in very concrete terms by the various proverbs. And I was struck again as I read through this, several things keep coming up, several themes keep recurring.

Allen: And I've marked my Bible and and over the years of reading. And one thing in the Proverbs that that comes up very often is the importance of our speech, what we say, our words, and and how important that is to for us as believers, how the important that is to the Christian life. And I was reminded of Jesus teaching in that regard about

Dennis: And I've marked my Bible and and over the years of reading. And one thing in the Proverbs that that comes up very often is the importance of our speech, what we say, our words, and and how important that is to for us as believers, how the important that is to the Christian life. And I was reminded of Jesus teaching in that regard about

Allen: The importance of speech. Matthew 15 18, who c what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart. And Luke 6, 45, out of the abundance of the heart, it a person speaks. So you want to know what a person's heart is like? Just listen to them for a while. And and that's a scary thought. Yeah. You know, how how do I talk? And what does my speech, what is my conversation reveal about my heart?

Dennis: The importance of speech. Matthew 15 18, who c what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart. And Luke 6, 45, out of the abundance of the heart, it a person speaks. So you want to know what a person's heart is like? Just listen to them for a while. And and that's a scary thought. Yeah. You know, how how do I talk? And what does my speech, what is my conversation reveal about my heart?

Allen: So that's that's an important litmus test, if you will, yeah. Of what a person's heart is like is how they speak. I was also remain reminded in several of the texts here of James 1, 19 and 20 about the need to be quick to listen and slow to speak and slow to become angry. that's that's quintessential.

Dennis: So that's that's an important litmus test, if you will, yeah. Of what a person's heart is like is how they speak. I was also remain reminded in several of the texts here of James 1, 19 and 20 about the need to be quick to listen and slow to speak and slow to become angry. that's that's quintessential.

Allen: Teaching summarizing some of the main threads from the book of Proverbs. Quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. Also, as I was looking at Proverbs, I I'm always I always noticed this. There's a mention of gray hair, so I had to notice that in in chapter 20 of verse 29. But the splendor of old men is their gray hair. So that's right. That's right. Older men take

Dennis: Teaching summarizing some of the main threads from the book of Proverbs. Quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. Also, as I was looking at Proverbs, I I'm always I always noticed this. There's a mention of gray hair, so I had to notice that in in chapter 20 of verse 29. But the splendor of old men is their gray hair. So that's right. That's right. Older men take

Allen: Take heart. Old men, you have great splendor. That's right. That's great. The the grayer, the more splendor. Which is opposite of what the world might say. Yeah. Stay looking young. Say no, but this is this is glory. This is your glory. Yeah. Which is an important part of the biblical idiom, of course. Gray hair is a sign of age and and and learning and accomplishment and so forth. So

Dennis: Take heart. Old men, you have great splendor. That's right. That's great. The the grayer, the more splendor. Which is opposite of what the world might say. Yeah. Stay looking young. Say no, but this is this is glory. This is your glory. Yeah. Which is an important part of the biblical idiom, of course. Gray hair is a sign of age and and and learning and accomplishment and so forth. So

Allen: That's true. But I was also strunk struck as I read this section from eighteen one to twenty-one sixteen, the reminder about God's sovereignty or his providence in all things, both on the personal level, that is chapter nineteen and verse twenty-one, for example. Many are the plans in the mind mind of a man or woman, of course, but it is the purpose of the Lord that stands.

Dennis: That's true. But I was also strunk struck as I read this section from eighteen one to twenty-one sixteen, the reminder about God's sovereignty or his providence in all things, both on the personal level, that is chapter nineteen and verse twenty-one, for example. Many are the plans in the mind mind of a man or woman, of course, but it is the purpose of the Lord that stands.

Allen: It is the purpose of the Lord that stands. that's that's living by faith in God's providence is the heart of the cr the daily Christian life. we make plans and it's important to make plans, but God changes those plans, and I'm always reminding myself of that.

Dennis: It is the purpose of the Lord that stands. that's that's living by faith in God's providence is the heart of the cr the daily Christian life. we make plans and it's important to make plans, but God changes those plans, and I'm always reminding myself of that.

Allen: whether it's a letter from the IRS what's going on. Yeah. Or I was talking to someone this week. He had an appointment with someone and at half hour before he went out to get in his car and it it wouldn't start and his car you the he's ultimately gonna have to junk it. Yeah. And he said, I guess d God didn't want me to go to that meeting. Yeah. And I said to him, apparently so, but at least not today. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know whether he would reschedule but

Dennis: whether it's a letter from the IRS what's going on. Yeah. Or I was talking to someone this week. He had an appointment with someone and at half hour before he went out to get in his car and it it wouldn't start and his car you the he's ultimately gonna have to junk it. Yeah. And he said, I guess d God didn't want me to go to that meeting. Yeah. And I said to him, apparently so, but at least not today. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know whether he would reschedule but

Allen: The providence of God is a great comfort and encouragement for us on a personal level, but I also noticed here in chapter twenty-one, there's an international, national or international level. the king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord, he turns it wherever he wills. I was reminded reminded of Daniel two twenty-one that God r r removes.

Dennis: The providence of God is a great comfort and encouragement for us on a personal level, but I also noticed here in chapter twenty-one, there's an international, national or international level. the king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord, he turns it wherever he wills. I was reminded reminded of Daniel two twenty-one that God r r removes.

Allen: And God sets up kings. And that's a good perspective to have in this tumultuous world in which we live. I won't start to list all the bad news that could be listed. Well, the scary news. Yeah. But it's good to be reminded that God is sovereign sovereign over every detail in every nation, in every life, so that He is working his plan in ways that

Dennis: And God sets up kings. And that's a good perspective to have in this tumultuous world in which we live. I won't start to list all the bad news that could be listed. Well, the scary news. Yeah. But it's good to be reminded that God is sovereign sovereign over every detail in every nation, in every life, so that He is working his plan in ways that

Allen: We'll probably will never understand in this life. Yeah. providence is best and at best is understood looking backwards in hindsight to see how God closed a door, opened a door. and someone recently said, or I read recently, that trust in the God of providence enables us to live now by faith without answers to our questions.

Dennis: We'll probably will never understand in this life. Yeah. providence is best and at best is understood looking backwards in hindsight to see how God closed a door, opened a door. and someone recently said, or I read recently, that trust in the God of providence enables us to live now by faith without answers to our questions.

Allen: until the day that we will live without without without answers to our questions until the day we will live without questions. When we will be in the presence of God and they'll

Dennis: until the day that we will live without without without answers to our questions until the day we will live without questions. When we will be in the presence of God and they'll

Allen: Be no more wondering, not that we not that we become God, yeah, but a very different situation. Hmm. That's a sweet thought. Yeah. The prop the providence of God gives us the confidence to live with questions for the day when we will be without questions. Exactly. That's great. Well said, well summarized. That's great. in in this week's reading in the Proverbs, I was confronted with the Bible sp speaks a lot about pride.

Dennis: Be no more wondering, not that we not that we become God, yeah, but a very different situation. Hmm. That's a sweet thought. Yeah. The prop the providence of God gives us the confidence to live with questions for the day when we will be without questions. Exactly. That's great. Well said, well summarized. That's great. in in this week's reading in the Proverbs, I was confronted with the Bible sp speaks a lot about pride.

Allen: So I would argue it's probably the number one sin because essentially just says I I'm greater than God, you know, at the root of the heart, maybe of all things. And it's just, you know, it the Bible warns a lot about pride, right? Haughty eyes and a proud heart. the lamp of the wicked our sin i i and more he goes, scoffer is the name of the arrogant, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride. Man, this is strong warnings and it's just it was a reminder to me

Dennis: So I would argue it's probably the number one sin because essentially just says I I'm greater than God, you know, at the root of the heart, maybe of all things. And it's just, you know, it the Bible warns a lot about pride, right? Haughty eyes and a proud heart. the lamp of the wicked our sin i i and more he goes, scoffer is the name of the arrogant, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride. Man, this is strong warnings and it's just it was a reminder to me

Allen: Just to stay humble, to stay humble. And it made me reflect a lot on just, you know, of course, our example of humility is in Christ, right? Who, though was God did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but humbled himself to the point of death, even death on a cross. So when I feel pride welling up in my heart, I think the antidote for me, I tried to is just thinking about how Christ, he at the snap of the fingers could have obliterated his enemies, did all that, but he suffered to the point of death, even death on

Dennis: Just to stay humble, to stay humble. And it made me reflect a lot on just, you know, of course, our example of humility is in Christ, right? Who, though was God did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but humbled himself to the point of death, even death on a cross. So when I feel pride welling up in my heart, I think the antidote for me, I tried to is just thinking about how Christ, he at the snap of the fingers could have obliterated his enemies, did all that, but he suffered to the point of death, even death on

Allen: across and so yeah it's just confronted with the reality of the sin of pride and how dangerous it is because it starts in the heart, right? As it all as you mentioned, the speech reveals what's in the heart. And the weird thing about pride is it it can you can have a false humility, right? So it's just hey, you can speak, you know, with humility and things, but really inside your heart is just rampant with pride. And so yeah, it just even calls out the deaths of the heart. And it's one that like God knows, right? The idea that he's sovereign is a comfort. And then it's also should

Dennis: across and so yeah it's just confronted with the reality of the sin of pride and how dangerous it is because it starts in the heart, right? As it all as you mentioned, the speech reveals what's in the heart. And the weird thing about pride is it it can you can have a false humility, right? So it's just hey, you can speak, you know, with humility and things, but really inside your heart is just rampant with pride. And so yeah, it just even calls out the deaths of the heart. And it's one that like God knows, right? The idea that he's sovereign is a comfort. And then it's also should

Allen: Correct us. It's like God knows what's in your heart. So are you working to kill and put that pride to death? So that was confronting and challenging out of the Proverbs.

Dennis: Correct us. It's like God knows what's in your heart. So are you working to kill and put that pride to death? So that was confronting and challenging out of the Proverbs.

Allen: Well let's let's move on. We're gonna talk about the the gospel of Luke. and so this is twenty twenty seven through twenty two thirteen, right? And this is the last week of Christ's ministry. this is his triumphal entry and this is really where he's actually about to go suffer in and die on the cross, which is you know the climax of the whole gospel narrative of Luke. And so winding down to the end, we see some confrontation.

Dennis: Well let's let's move on. We're gonna talk about the the gospel of Luke. and so this is twenty twenty seven through twenty two thirteen, right? And this is the last week of Christ's ministry. this is his triumphal entry and this is really where he's actually about to go suffer in and die on the cross, which is you know the climax of the whole gospel narrative of Luke. And so winding down to the end, we see some confrontation.

Allen: With with the Sadducees who are those who denied the resurrection. and then well, later we would see that. But then we see a foretelling. here you go. So we actually get some for foretelling here. We were talking about prophecy, and Jesus actually, as prophet, priest, and king that he is, is prophesying about the future destruction of the temple in Jerusalem here. And so he gives signs about the destruction and things that are gonna happen on

Dennis: With with the Sadducees who are those who denied the resurrection. and then well, later we would see that. But then we see a foretelling. here you go. So we actually get some for foretelling here. We were talking about prophecy, and Jesus actually, as prophet, priest, and king that he is, is prophesying about the future destruction of the temple in Jerusalem here. And so he gives signs about the destruction and things that are gonna happen on

Allen: Jerusalem and on Israel for their sin. So if you kind of wanted to to to jump in a little bit about this foretelling of the judgment and also foretelling of the future second coming, right? The second coming of the Son of Man of Christ. Yeah, they're they occur together here in Luke of the Synoptic Gospels. You don't have this material in John's Gospel, but you have it in the Matthew, Mark, and Luke. And Luke seems to

Dennis: Jerusalem and on Israel for their sin. So if you kind of wanted to to to jump in a little bit about this foretelling of the judgment and also foretelling of the future second coming, right? The second coming of the Son of Man of Christ. Yeah, they're they occur together here in Luke of the Synoptic Gospels. You don't have this material in John's Gospel, but you have it in the Matthew, Mark, and Luke. And Luke seems to

Allen: More neatly and clearly distinguished the two, the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 by the Romans. they flattened the city, including the temple. And the temple has not been rebuilt. So pictures you'll see of Jerusalem is with the Muslim Dome of the Rock, I think is on that site. that's the site of the the the temple that was

Dennis: More neatly and clearly distinguished the two, the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 by the Romans. they flattened the city, including the temple. And the temple has not been rebuilt. So pictures you'll see of Jerusalem is with the Muslim Dome of the Rock, I think is on that site. that's the site of the the the temple that was

Allen: Made by Solomon, it was destroyed by the Babylonians, it was rebuilt, and then Herod ref refurbished it and built it up, King Herod. And that's what's going to be destroyed in A.D. 70, because of the the rejection of the Messiah by the Jews. and here in chapter 21, he warns his disciples who are very proud of the temple.

Dennis: Made by Solomon, it was destroyed by the Babylonians, it was rebuilt, and then Herod ref refurbished it and built it up, King Herod. And that's what's going to be destroyed in A.D. 70, because of the the rejection of the Messiah by the Jews. and here in chapter 21, he warns his disciples who are very proud of the temple.

Allen: And it's clearer, particularly in the other synoptics. But Jesus warns that not st one stone will be left upon another. And he actually has made that statement earlier, as he was coming into Jerusalem on Sunday for the triumphal entry. he draws near, this is in chapter 19, verse 41. He draws near to the city and he begins to weep over it. And only Luke records this for us.

Dennis: And it's clearer, particularly in the other synoptics. But Jesus warns that not st one stone will be left upon another. And he actually has made that statement earlier, as he was coming into Jerusalem on Sunday for the triumphal entry. he draws near, this is in chapter 19, verse 41. He draws near to the city and he begins to weep over it. And only Luke records this for us.

Allen: And he weeps over it because of the judgment that was coming for for rejecting that it says in verse 44, the time of your visitation, the time you're you haven't received your messiah, but you have rejected him. So that warning there on Sunday is repeated here.

Dennis: And he weeps over it because of the judgment that was coming for for rejecting that it says in verse 44, the time of your visitation, the time you're you haven't received your messiah, but you have rejected him. So that warning there on Sunday is repeated here.

Allen: Probably this is Tuesday in in chapter twenty one. It's repeated on Tuesday, warning them again that it's going to be the temple's going to be destroyed. And then they ask him when will these things be? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place? And then he gives them a number of signs. First, about the

Dennis: Probably this is Tuesday in in chapter twenty one. It's repeated on Tuesday, warning them again that it's going to be the temple's going to be destroyed. And then they ask him when will these things be? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place? And then he gives them a number of signs. First, about the

Allen: Upcoming destruction of Jerusalem. And then he will in verse 25 move, transition to the coming of the Sonny Son of Man. So most of this section is talking about the destruction of the foretelling, the coming destruction of Jerusalem. This is in probably around the AD, AD 33, when he makes this, when he says this, and that Jerusalem was destroyed.

Dennis: Upcoming destruction of Jerusalem. And then he will in verse 25 move, transition to the coming of the Sonny Son of Man. So most of this section is talking about the destruction of the foretelling, the coming destruction of Jerusalem. This is in probably around the AD, AD 33, when he makes this, when he says this, and that Jerusalem was destroyed.

Allen: Jerusalem, the temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in AD 70. So we're 35 years or so away from the fulfillment. And so he gives some signs to his people, particularly Christians, warning them what's coming in answer to the disciples, to the apostles' questions about when and what will be the signs. but then he moves to the signs of the the coming of the Son of Man.

Dennis: Jerusalem, the temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in AD 70. So we're 35 years or so away from the fulfillment. And so he gives some signs to his people, particularly Christians, warning them what's coming in answer to the disciples, to the apostles' questions about when and what will be the signs. but then he moves to the signs of the the coming of the Son of Man.

Allen: And the question arises, what does one have to do with the other? And in the other in Matthew and and Mark they're more intermingled, the signs of the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the the coming of the Son of Man, the second coming of Christ. Here Luke seems to distinguish them, but they're not completely separate, so that all the signs that he gives for the destruction of Jerusalem them

Dennis: And the question arises, what does one have to do with the other? And in the other in Matthew and and Mark they're more intermingled, the signs of the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the the coming of the Son of Man, the second coming of Christ. Here Luke seems to distinguish them, but they're not completely separate, so that all the signs that he gives for the destruction of Jerusalem them

Allen: become a pattern for or a prefigurement of signs that will happen before the coming of Christ. So the one is important not only for the signs are important not only for being cu being mindful of the or being c be aware of the coming destruction of Jerusalem, but also for the second coming of Christ. And there's signs that of course that we can

Dennis: become a pattern for or a prefigurement of signs that will happen before the coming of Christ. So the one is important not only for the signs are important not only for being cu being mindful of the or being c be aware of the coming destruction of Jerusalem, but also for the second coming of Christ. And there's signs that of course that we can be looking at as well, nation against nation, earthquakes, famines, and so forth, without of course, specifying the the given time. So the two overlap, though Luke seems to distinguish them more neatly, they really overlap so that the signs leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem are signs that will also be repeated, perhaps in intensified form leading up to the second coming of

Allen: be looking at as well, nation against nation, earthquakes, famines, and so forth, without of course, specifying the the given time. So the two overlap, though Luke seems to distinguish them more neatly, they really overlap so that the signs leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem are signs that will also be repeated, perhaps in intensified form leading up to the second coming of Christ. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great explanation there. and kind of the intermingling of the judgment and then his return. And I think as you kind of have mentioned, you alluded to the I the idea of what we call like already not yet, right? Where the kingdom of God has already started but it's not yet completed. And it's like, well, what do we do now in between, right? And I think Christ drives that point home. in in thirty four.

Dennis: Christ. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great explanation there. and kind of the intermingling of the judgment and then his return. And I think as you kind of have mentioned, you alluded to the I the idea of what we call like already not yet, right? Where the kingdom of God has already started but it's not yet completed. And it's like, well, what do we do now in between, right? And I think Christ drives that point home. in in thirty four.

Allen: says, but watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with the dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap. For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth, but stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place and to stand before the Son of Man. In short, you're gonna stand before the Son of Man, stand before Jesus and give an account. Are you ready? Like what are you doing with your life? Are you making haste to live for Christ and his kingdom?

Dennis: says, but watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with the dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap. For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth, but stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place and to stand before the Son of Man. In short, you're gonna stand before the Son of Man, stand before Jesus and give an account. Are you ready? Like what are you doing with your life? Are you making haste to live for Christ and his kingdom?

Allen: In standing ready that, hey, judgment's gonna come. What are you gonna do with your life? Which I think is kind of the charge, right? In this which which Jerusalem and Israel they had missed, right? Their day of visitation was there. But yet we here now have an opportunity while it's still time to repent and come and and participate in in in the inbuilding of God's kingdom, before we stand before him. And being about God's business now with the b business that God gives us to do. That's right. Yeah.

Dennis: In standing ready that, hey, judgment's gonna come. What are you gonna do with your life? Which I think is kind of the charge, right? In this which which Jerusalem and Israel they had missed, right? Their day of visitation was there. But yet we here now have an opportunity while it's still time to repent and come and and participate in in in the inbuilding of God's kingdom, before we stand before him. And being about God's business now with the b business that God gives us to do. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Well, let's let's go over to the letter to the Hebrews. And I kinda wanna jump in, ask a couple couple questions regarding this letter. You've done great work on Hebrews over your teaching career in life. And so excited to to continue to hear from you on this. And I think our our listeners, you all will be really blessed on this. couple questions. One, why is Hebrews so important for understanding?

Allen: Yeah, that's great. Well, let's let's go over to the letter to the Hebrews. And I kinda wanna jump in, ask a couple couple questions regarding this letter. You've done great work on Hebrews over your teaching career in life. And so excited to to continue to hear from you on this. And I think our our listeners, you all will be really blessed on this. couple questions. One, why is Hebrews so important for understanding? The Old Testament.

Dennis: The Old Testament.

Allen: Let's begin with the Bible itself. What's this what what's the Bible about? The Bible is about Jesus. It's one book about Jesus with as the central character. And Jesus makes that clear, for example, in his conversation with the disciples on the Emmaus Road in Luke chapter twenty four, where he explains he open he opens the scriptures to them by showing how

Dennis: Let's begin with the Bible itself. What's this what what's the Bible about? The Bible is about Jesus. It's one book about Jesus with as the central character. And Jesus makes that clear, for example, in his conversation with the disciples on the Emmaus Road in Luke chapter twenty four, where he explains he open he opens the scriptures to them by showing how

Allen: The old the the old scriptures, of course, is the Old Testament by showing how the Old Testament was about Jesus. And we don't have a great deal of the record from that conversation, but we do have the rest of the New Testament, which in a sense fleshes out how Jesus is the the center of the Old Testament.

Dennis: The old the the old scriptures, of course, is the Old Testament by showing how the Old Testament was about Jesus. And we don't have a great deal of the record from that conversation, but we do have the rest of the New Testament, which in a sense fleshes out how Jesus is the the center of the Old Testament.

Allen: The Old Testament is one book about Jesus with the Old Testament itself as the introduction, and it traces the Old Testament traces through a series of covenants God's promise that he would send a seed of the woman who would crush the head of Satan. So the first promise of the gospel is there in Genesis 315. And the rest of the Bible is the unfolding of that promise through a series of covenants.

Dennis: The Old Testament is one book about Jesus with the Old Testament itself as the introduction, and it traces the Old Testament traces through a series of covenants God's promise that he would send a seed of the woman who would crush the head of Satan. So the first promise of the gospel is there in Genesis 315. And the rest of the Bible is the unfolding of that promise through a series of covenants.

Allen: And of course, that seed did eventually come. That seed is Jesus, who crushed the head of Satan by his life, his death, and his resurrection. That seed came from the the Jewish people. God could have chosen anyone. He could have chosen the Eskimos or the the other other people groups, and that's why the Bible focuses on God's dealings with Israel, because God chose Israel as the instrument through which

Dennis: And of course, that seed did eventually come. That seed is Jesus, who crushed the head of Satan by his life, his death, and his resurrection. That seed came from the the Jewish people. God could have chosen anyone. He could have chosen the Eskimos or the the other other people groups, and that's why the Bible focuses on God's dealings with Israel, because God chose Israel as the instrument through which

Allen: The seed would come who crush would crush the head of Satan. So the Old Testament then introduces that expectation, that promise that God was going to do something about the sin problem. How can sinners stand before a holy God? That's the question of the whole Bible, but particularly the Old Testament, from Genesis 3:15 on. Who can stand? the Bible is really a book that's

Genesis 3:15

Dennis: The seed would come who crush would crush the head of Satan. So the Old Testament then introduces that expectation, that promise that God was going to do something about the sin problem. How can sinners stand before a holy God? That's the question of the whole Bible, but particularly the Old Testament, from Genesis 3:15 on. Who can stand? the Bible is really a book that's

Genesis 3:15

Allen: This is not new to me, but the Bible is a book with the answers in the back. That is, the answers to the questions and the expectation and the hope of the Old Testament is found in the in the explanation of the new in the coming of Christ. So you can look at the Old Testament as promises made, redemptive promises made, and the New Testament as redemptive promises kept. Yep. All of God's

Dennis: This is not new to me, but the Bible is a book with the answers in the back. That is, the answers to the questions and the expectation and the hope of the Old Testament is found in the in the explanation of the new in the coming of Christ. So you can look at the Old Testament as promises made, redemptive promises made, and the New Testament as redemptive promises kept. Yep. All of God's

Allen: promises are yes in Christ, two two Corinthians one twenty. the Bible came then, it's a whole book about Jesus, and it came by progressive revelation. the Bible was not a finished book that was dropped from heaven at somebody's feet. And that becomes very clear in the opening verses of Hebrews, chapters one and the first part of verse two. Mm-hmm.

Dennis: promises are yes in Christ, two two Corinthians one twenty. the Bible came then, it's a whole book about Jesus, and it came by progressive revelation. the Bible was not a finished book that was dropped from heaven at somebody's feet. And that becomes very clear in the opening verses of Hebrews, chapters one and the first part of verse two. Mm-hmm.

Allen: yeah, what is what does it mean? It says that long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he's spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. What is that what does that mean? That he's spoken to us by his son. Well verses one and two are very carefully balanced in the the original language. There are counterparts

Dennis: yeah, what is what does it mean? It says that long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he's spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. What is that what does that mean? That he's spoken to us by his son. Well verses one and two are very carefully balanced in the the original language. There are counterparts

Allen: so for example, long ago in the verse one is balance within these last days in verse two. And here God is saying that God the author of Hebrews is saying that in the Old Testament God spoke to people, and notice that it says at many times and in various ways. God didn't again give the whole test whole Old Testament at one time.

Dennis: so for example, long ago in the verse one is balance within these last days in verse two. And here God is saying that God the author of Hebrews is saying that in the Old Testament God spoke to people, and notice that it says at many times and in various ways. God didn't again give the whole test whole Old Testament at one time.

Allen: Sitting or at one occasion, and God didn't give it in one way. There are many ways. There are visions and and so on and so forth. So here he says that in the Old Testament, God spoke at at many times and in many ways, through the prophets. And and you know, we're back at Isaiah, but prophets and the prophets here.

Dennis: Sitting or at one occasion, and God didn't give it in one way. There are many ways. There are visions and and so on and so forth. So here he says that in the Old Testament, God spoke at at many times and in many ways, through the prophets. And and you know, we're back at Isaiah, but prophets and the prophets here.

Allen: Is talking about certainly the writing prophets of the Bible, but he's talking mu much more broadly about any spokesman for God in the in the Old Testament. So when he says in these last days he has spoken to us by his son, he is he is saying that God has given his final word, he's given his explanation of the expectation expectations and the promises that

Dennis: Is talking about certainly the writing prophets of the Bible, but he's talking mu much more broadly about any spokesman for God in the in the Old Testament. So when he says in these last days he has spoken to us by his son, he is he is saying that God has given his final word, he's given his explanation of the expectation expectations and the promises that

Allen: that were made in the in the old testament. So the letter to the Hebrews then, because it's progressive revelation, and going back to the these opening verses, that's an extremely important statement about the nature of the Bible. It's progressive.

Dennis: that were made in the in the old testament. So the letter to the Hebrews then, because it's progressive revelation, and going back to the these opening verses, that's an extremely important statement about the nature of the Bible. It's progressive.

Allen: But one of the important corollaries of that progressive revelation is that we interpret earlier revelation by later revelation. That is, we interpret that which is less clear by the more clear. And so I think the key question or the key issue in interpreting the Old Testament, and since we're talking about Isaiah, in interpreting Isaiah, the key question is

Dennis: But one of the important corollaries of that progressive revelation is that we interpret earlier revelation by later revelation. That is, we interpret that which is less clear by the more clear. And so I think the key question or the key issue in interpreting the Old Testament, and since we're talking about Isaiah, in interpreting Isaiah, the key question is

Allen: How does the New Testament interpret and explain these things? And in the letter to the Hebrews, the author of Hebrews will use particularly the sacrificial system of Israel that God gave them. This is how you, Israel, a sinful people, may approach a holy God through priests, through through a tabernacle, through sacrifices.

Dennis: How does the New Testament interpret and explain these things? And in the letter to the Hebrews, the author of Hebrews will use particularly the sacrificial system of Israel that God gave them. This is how you, Israel, a sinful people, may approach a holy God through priests, through through a tabernacle, through sacrifices.

Allen: that's how you approach a holy God. And that's the promise in the Old Testament. And the author of Hebrews picks up on that ceremonial system, and he explains the person and work of Christ in those terms as fulfilling, as realizing what was only foreshadowed in the sacrificial system. And in all of these ways, God is speaking.

Dennis: that's how you approach a holy God. And that's the promise in the Old Testament. And the author of Hebrews picks up on that ceremonial system, and he explains the person and work of Christ in those terms as fulfilling, as realizing what was only foreshadowed in the sacrificial system. And in all of these ways, God is speaking.

Allen: Notice it says to us, that is to the author, to his Christian readers, to us today, he's speaking to us and telling us how sinners may stand before a righteous God, not by the sacrifices of the Old Testament, not through the ministry of an earthly high priest. All of those things were types, all of those things were foreshadowings,

Dennis: Notice it says to us, that is to the author, to his Christian readers, to us today, he's speaking to us and telling us how sinners may stand before a righteous God, not by the sacrifices of the Old Testament, not through the ministry of an earthly high priest. All of those things were types, all of those things were foreshadowings,

Allen: Or they were pictures of a better way. And that better way, of course, is the coming of Christ. The sacrificial system of the Old Testament was never intended to deal in itself and by itself with the sin question, the sin problem. The Old Testament sacrificial system with the high priest and the tabernacle and all of those sacrifices declared a need.

Dennis: Or they were pictures of a better way. And that better way, of course, is the coming of Christ. The sacrificial system of the Old Testament was never intended to deal in itself and by itself with the sin question, the sin problem. The Old Testament sacrificial system with the high priest and the tabernacle and all of those sacrifices declared a need.

Allen: That they themselves could not, nor were they intended to meet. And the whole fac the author of Hebrews is going to basically say, if that had if if they had dealt with the sin problem, they would have stopped. Right. But he makes the point that they kept on going. And in chapter 10, he's going to say that the sacrifices are an annual reminder of sin. and the Holy Spirit was showing.

Dennis: That they themselves could not, nor were they intended to meet. And the whole fac the author of Hebrews is going to basically say, if that had if if they had dealt with the sin problem, they would have stopped. Right. But he makes the point that they kept on going. And in chapter 10, he's going to say that the sacrifices are an annual reminder of sin. and the Holy Spirit was showing.

Allen: Through that that system, the open-endedness or the incompletion, incompleteness of that system, it didn't deal with the sin question. It declared a need. Sinners need a sacrifice, a substitute, to stand before a holy God. It declared that need very in blo very bloody terms through the sacrifices, but it did not.

Dennis: Through that that system, the open-endedness or the incompletion, incompleteness of that system, it didn't deal with the sin question. It declared a need. Sinners need a sacrifice, a substitute, to stand before a holy God. It declared that need very in blo very bloody terms through the sacrifices, but it did not.

Allen: did not itself meet those needs because it was never intended to. Sure. It was intended to declare a need that it could not meet and therefore to raise the question, how is this going to be met? And the author of Hebrews then answers that question when he talks about Jesus as the great high priest, like Melchizedek, not like Aaron, who offered a better sacrifice himself, not

Dennis: did not itself meet those needs because it was never intended to. Sure. It was intended to declare a need that it could not meet and therefore to raise the question, how is this going to be met? And the author of Hebrews then answers that question when he talks about Jesus as the great high priest, like Melchizedek, not like Aaron, who offered a better sacrifice himself, not

Allen: The endless repetition of animal sacrifices in a better sanctuary, not an earthly one, but a heavenly one where it represents us, and to inaugurate a better covenant that realizes now through the the life, death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus, that realized the realizes the promise of the old testament system that is access to God.

Dennis: The endless repetition of animal sacrifices in a better sanctuary, not an earthly one, but a heavenly one where it represents us, and to inaugurate a better covenant that realizes now through the the life, death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus, that realized the realizes the promise of the old testament system that is access to God.

Allen: access into God's presence, fellowship with God again has been secured because sins have been dealt with now finally through the the work of Christ in a way that the old system couldn't but was never intended to so the author of Hebrews is is the letter to the Hebrews is important because of the way it explains for us

Dennis: access into God's presence, fellowship with God again has been secured because sins have been dealt with now finally through the the work of Christ in a way that the old system couldn't but was never intended to so the author of Hebrews is is the letter to the Hebrews is important because of the way it explains for us

Allen: The whole point of the act of the sacrificial system, which was at the heart of Israel's worship. And it was given by God. God gave it. God gave it for Israel to to act in obedience to him, but it was as a picture of the work of Christ. And that's how the authors

Dennis: The whole point of the act of the sacrificial system, which was at the heart of Israel's worship. And it was given by God. God gave it. God gave it for Israel to to act in obedience to him, but it was as a picture of the work of Christ. And that's how the authors

Allen: That's why I get so excited about the book of Hebrews because how the way it opens for us the point of the whole sacrificial system to prepare the way for the coming of Jesus. Hmm. So it's not an over oversimplification to say that the whole sacrificial system in all of the Old Testament is.

Dennis: That's why I get so excited about the book of Hebrews because how the way it opens for us the point of the whole sacrificial system to prepare the way for the coming of Jesus. Hmm. So it's not an over oversimplification to say that the whole sacrificial system in all of the Old Testament is.

Allen: It's all about Jesus. It's all supposed to point us to Jesus. Absolutely. And so when we read the Old Testament, we should be having that in mind. Absolutely. And that's one of the first things we ought to have in mind when we're reading the prophets, for example. not every not every prophetic passage is going to be as directly messianic as others may be, like the suffering servant passage. But that's why the the message of each

Dennis: It's all about Jesus. It's all supposed to point us to Jesus. Absolutely. And so when we read the Old Testament, we should be having that in mind. Absolutely. And that's one of the first things we ought to have in mind when we're reading the prophets, for example. not every not every prophetic passage is going to be as directly messianic as others may be, like the suffering servant passage. But that's why the the message of each

Allen: Prophet has to be understood within the larger message of the Old Testament. How can sinners and how can a sinful people be right with a holy God? And each of the pieces of the prophets then make a contribution to that. And that leads me to put a plug-in here for the ESV study bible because

Dennis: Prophet has to be understood within the larger message of the Old Testament. How can sinners and how can a sinful people be right with a holy God? And each of the pieces of the prophets then make a contribution to that. And that leads me to put a plug-in here for the ESV study bible because

Allen: And I understand that's now in the book Nook and I and I can hardly I I I I'm enthusiastically I can enthusiastically recommend that because in each of the respective introductions to the books of the Old Testament, there's always a section about how that given book contributes to the story of redemption, I think is how they c how they refer it to the history of redemption.

Dennis: And I understand that's now in the book Nook and I and I can hardly I I I I'm enthusiastically I can enthusiastically recommend that because in each of the respective introductions to the books of the Old Testament, there's always a section about how that given book contributes to the story of redemption, I think is how they c how they refer it to the history of redemption.

Allen: And that's a very helpful resource for kind of orienting yourself when you're reading some of the prophets, particularly because there's so much historical background that we're most of us aren't familiar with. So I can highly recommend the ESV study bible for many th features, but particularly that one, to and that gets back to answering your question is it about Jesus? Or

Dennis: And that's a very helpful resource for kind of orienting yourself when you're reading some of the prophets, particularly because there's so much historical background that we're most of us aren't familiar with. So I can highly recommend the ESV study bible for many th features, but particularly that one, to and that gets back to answering your question is it about Jesus? Or

Allen: Not is it about Jesus? How does it prepare the way for the coming of Jesus? some ways more directly, more obvious, other ways not so much, but if the Bible is really one story about Jesus, which I think we could argue is the case from Luke twenty four and others, then how does any given peace in the old testament

Dennis: Not is it about Jesus? How is it? How is it? How is it about Jesus? How does it prepare the way for the coming of Jesus? some ways more directly, more obvious, other ways not so much. But if the Bible is really one story about Jesus, which I think we could argue is the case from Luke twenty four and others, then how does any given peace in the old testament

Allen: contribute to that. Hmm. Yeah, that's great. How is it about Jesus? That transformed my reading f of the Bible a couple years ago when I when I when I found that out. yeah, it's all about Jesus. How? He's in there. How do you how do you see it? yeah, ESV study Bible book Nook, we've mentioned on this ups on this podcast before, but it's in the lobby. Go and purchase it. I don't know how many dollars it is, but it's worth however many dollars you

Dennis: contribute to that. Hmm. Yeah, that's great. How is it about Jesus? That transformed my reading f of the Bible a couple years ago when I when I when I found that out. yeah, it's all about Jesus. How? He's in there. How do you how do you see it? yeah, ESV study Bible book Nook, we've mentioned on this ups on this podcast before, but it's in the lobby. Go and purchase it. I don't know how many dollars it is, but it's worth however many dollars you

Allen: It's listed on there. it's my favorite study Bible, super helpful. And what Dennis is mentioning is the introductory section of each book. You go and read those, some helpful information there. but yeah, okay. Couple more questions on the letter to the Hebrews. I want to know there's a lot about angels here. Specifically, I think the author is arguing that Jesus is better than the angels, right? He's he's quoting Psalm 110, which is actually your most quoted Old Testament passage in the new.

Dennis: It's listed on there. it's my favorite study Bible, super helpful. And what Dennis is mentioning is the introductory section of each book. You go and read those, some helpful information there. but yeah, okay. Couple more questions on the letter to the Hebrews. I want to know there's a lot about angels here. Specifically, I think the author is arguing that Jesus is better than the angels, right? He's he's quoting Psalm 110, which is actually your most quoted Old Testament passage in the new.

Allen: He goes, which of the angels did he ever say? you know, today I have begotten you. and then he says, of the Son, your throne of God is forever and ever. Right. So he's basically saying Jesus is better than all of the angels. and then there's this interesting verse w when I was reading it it's fourteen, it says, the angels, are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those to are to inherit salvation? there's an older idea.

Dennis: He goes, which of the angels did he ever say? you know, today I have begotten you. and then he says, of the Son, your throne of God is forever and ever. Right. So he's basically saying Jesus is better than all of the angels. and then there's this interesting verse w when I was reading it it's fourteen, it says, the angels, are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those to are to inherit salvation? there's an older idea.

Allen: I think within the church at large that each person, each believer has a guardian angel. Is that is that what this is getting at here? Just a question on angels? I don't I don't know that we each have a guardian angel, but certainly i they have some ministry to believers and apparently it's a a ministry of service because they're called ministering spirits sent to serve

Dennis: I think within the church at large that each person, each believer has a guardian angel. Is that is that what this is getting at here? Just a question on angels? I don't I don't know that we each have a guardian angel, but certainly i they have some ministry to believers and apparently it's a a ministry of service because they're called ministering spirits sent to serve

Allen: For the sake of those who will inherit salvation. It's interesting that the angels themselves in first Peter, they're they were left scratching their heads about this story of redemption. Yeah. so they themselves didn't get it, at least beforehand. They didn't understand. the this here I was reminded of the the language in Psalm ninety one.

Dennis: For the sake of those who will inherit salvation. It's interesting that the angels themselves in first Peter, they're they were left scratching their heads about this story of redemption. Yeah. so they themselves didn't get it, at least beforehand. They didn't understand. the this here I was reminded of the the language in Psalm ninety one.

Allen: that the angels were were are our ministering spirits.

Dennis: that the angels were were are our ministering spirits.

Allen: So the Psalm ninety one eleven, the angels are s are sent by God to guard you in all your ways. So I don't know whether it's everyone has a an angel, maybe. Or maybe maybe angels kind of split up and maybe there's an angel taking care of me and you, Alan. I I don't know how that works, but they have a protective purpose. And the but your mention of angels here

Dennis: So the Psalm ninety one eleven, the angels are s are sent by God to guard you in all your ways. So I don't know whether it's everyone has a an angel, maybe. Or maybe maybe angels kind of split up and maybe there's an angel taking care of me and you, Alan. I I don't know how that works, but they have a protective purpose. And the but your mention of angels here

Allen: i is curi raises the question why is he talking so much about angels? Because he's talking about angels, as soon as he's done the opening verses in verses one to four, which is actually one long sentence in Greek. He starts on this a long section of the superiority of the son's person, who he is, from one five through four thirteen, and he starts with angels and

Dennis: i is curi raises the question why is he talking so much about angels? Because he's talking about angels, as soon as he's done the opening verses in verses one to four, which is actually one long sentence in Greek. He starts on this a long section of the superiority of the son's person, who he is, from one five through four thirteen, and he starts with angels and

Allen: from one five to two eighteen, why is he talking about angels? It's possible that there was some misunderstanding or some false teaching about angels going on, but I don't think that that's n necessarily the case. I think he's probably mentioning angels because of their role in the giving of the giving of the law at Sinai. In chapter two and verse two of Hebrews, he says, For since the message declared by angels.

Dennis: from one five to two eighteen, why is he talking about angels? It's possible that there was some misunderstanding or some false teaching about angels going on, but I don't think that that's n necessarily the case. I think he's probably mentioning angels because of their role in the giving of the giving of the law at Sinai. In chapter two and verse two of Hebrews, he says, For since the message declared by angels.

Allen: Prove to be reliable. We don't have a a great deal about that in the Old Testament, but apparently they had a role in the giving of the law. And he's not criticizing angels, he's not criticizing the law, but he's criticizing perhaps a misuse of the law. and of course, he's going to go on and basically saying we're by the law in the book of Hebrews, the law is that's a big word.

Dennis: Prove to be reliable. We don't have a a great deal about that in the Old Testament, but apparently they had a role in the giving of the law. And he's not criticizing angels, he's not criticizing the law, but he's criticizing perhaps a misuse of the law. and of course, he's going to go on and basically saying we're by the law in the book of Hebrews, the law is that's a big word.

Allen: But in the book of Hebrews, the the law in particular that he has in mind is the so-called ceremonial law, the sacrificial system, as he works his way through the high priest and the sacrifice and the tabernacle. That's what he has in view. So in my judgment, he's taught he brings up angels.

Dennis: But in the book of Hebrews, the the law in particular that he has in mind is the so-called ceremonial law, the sacrificial system, as he works his way through the high priest and the sacrifice and the tabernacle. That's what he has in view. So in my judgment, he's taught he brings up angels.

Allen: so that people don't misunderstand their importance compared to the sun, and he's using it to stress the importance of the sun who who fulfills what the law pictured, what it foreshadowed. Hmm. That's a sweet thought just thinking about how the angels are subserving it in their testimony, right? especially in their role in the in the law, but how they are serving.

Dennis: so that people don't misunderstand their importance compared to the sun, and he's using it to stress the importance of the sun who who fulfills what the law pictured, what it foreshadowed. Hmm. That's a sweet thought just thinking about how the angels are subserving it in their testimony, right? especially in their role in the in the law, but how they are serving.

Allen: And even the the idea that the angels are maybe misunderstood. You mentioned the first Peter point. Misunderstood. They didn't get it. You know, it's like the salvation that the angels long to see. It's like we have a greater we have something greater than angels. I think maybe a little bit in sometimes we think like angels are greater than we are because they're you know, they're spiritual kind of elemental beings. But no, the whole point is like we're greater than the angels because we have Christ, which the angels d ha don't have. We have a un in a unique way.

Dennis: And even the the idea that the angels are maybe misunderstood. You mentioned the first Peter point. Misunderstood. They didn't get it. You know, it's like the salvation that the angels long to see. It's like we have a greater we have something greater than angels. I think maybe a little bit in sometimes we think like angels are greater than we are because they're you know, they're spiritual kind of elemental beings. But no, the whole point is like we're greater than the angels because we have Christ, which the angels d ha don't have. We have a un in a unique way. one other question on literally Hebrews, there's an extended section just about warning passages. famously the the terminology, lest we drift, right? Pay attention to the things that you've heard, lest we drift. There's a series of other judgment or warning passages. What do we make of these warning passages? Why is the author including these in there? Yeah, there are five of them in the book of Hebrews. The one you mentioned the f is the first one in chapter two about not drifting, and that's

Allen: one other question on literally Hebrews, there's an extended section just about warning passages. famously the the terminology, lest we drift, right? Pay attention to the things that you've heard, lest we drift. There's a series of other judgment or warning passages. What do we make of these warning passages? Why is the author including these in there? Yeah, there are five of them in the book of Hebrews. The one you mentioned the f is the first one in chapter two about not drifting, and that's That's a fairly mild warning compared to some of the others. There's one in chapter two here, there's one in chapter three. Probably the most challenging is the one in chapters five and six. there's one in chapter ten, there's one in ver chapter twelve. And the warning passages are intended and they're spaced throughout the argument to reinforce his argument. And the argument of the letter to the Hebrews is to

Dennis: That's a fairly mild warning compared to some of the others. There's one in chapter two here, there's one in chapter three. Probably the most challenging is the one in chapters five and six. there's one in chapter ten, there's one in ver chapter twelve. And the warning passages are intended and they're spaced throughout the argument to reinforce his argument. And the argument of the letter to the Hebrews is to

Allen: Christians, probably Jewish Christians, who are being persecuted for their faith now in in a renewed way, they've already apparently suffered some persecution, and now they are experiencing or at least more persecution appears to be on the horizon. And they may be wondering if this Christianity thing is worth it. why not go back to Judaism, which had more official recognition by the Romans.

Dennis: Christians, probably Jewish Christians, who are being persecuted for their faith now in in a renewed way, they've already apparently suffered some persecution, and now they are experiencing or at least more persecution appears to be on the horizon. And they may be wondering if this Christianity thing is worth it. why not go back to Judaism, which had more official recognition by the Romans.

Allen: and certainly would have escaped some of if they were being persecuted by their Jewish compatriots. So the warnings are intended to reinforce the call to to perseverance. they do not teach in any case that Christians can lose their salvation that's

Dennis: and certainly would have escaped some of if they were being persecuted by their Jewish compatriots. So the warnings are intended to reinforce the call to to perseverance. they do not teach in any case that Christians can lose their salvation that's

Allen: There are just too many verses in the Bible that teach the security of the believer. And I don't mean that in a kind of a loose come to Jesus idea that you can come to Jesus and live any way you want to. Right, right. we're talking about those who are truly regenerate, truly filled with the spirit and exhibiting the fruits of a life that is like, Hey, you are actually bought with the precious blood of Christ and you belong to Christ. Yeah. So th this is not

Dennis: There are just too many verses in the Bible that teach the security of the believer. And I don't mean that in a kind of a loose come to Jesus idea that you can come to Jesus and live any way you want to. Right, right. we're talking about those who are truly regenerate, truly filled with the spirit and exhibiting the fruits of a life that is like, Hey, you are actually bought with the precious blood of Christ and you belong to Christ. Yeah. So th this is not

Allen: This is not should not unsettle Christians. But we also the we'll the warnings also need to be taken seriously. Right. Because they are strongly worded. and just because you've made a profession of faith, been baptized, joined a church, maybe you're even active in church, doesn't mean necessarily that you're a real Christian. Sure. I'm I'm

Dennis: This is not should not unsettle Christians. But we also the we'll the warnings also need to be taken seriously. Right. Because they are strongly worded. and just because you've made a profession of faith, been baptized, joined a church, maybe you're even active in church, doesn't mean necessarily that you're a real Christian. Sure. I'm I'm

Allen: Reminded of Jesus' words in Matthew 7 at the end of the Sermon on the Mount. I will say to you, I never knew you. Yeah, Lord, Lord, didn't we do all these things? And Jesus does not, He does not dismiss their claims, but He says, I never knew you. So it's important, it's it's possible to look and talk and act like a Christian, and if you fall away, if you leave Christ.

Dennis: Reminded of Jesus' words in Matthew 7 at the end of the Sermon on the Mount. I will say to you, I never knew you. Yeah, Lord, Lord, didn't we do all these things? And Jesus does not, He does not dismiss their claims, but He says, I never knew you. So it's important, it's it's possible to look and talk and act like a Christian, and if you fall away, if you leave Christ.

Allen: In the end, not talking about okay occasional sins that every Christian will experience or will do, but we're talking about an ultimate final rejection of Christ as this is not worth it, this is not true, and going back to or going to something else. so the test is perseverance to the end,

Dennis: In the end, not talking about okay occasional sins that every Christian will experience or will do, but we're talking about an ultimate final rejection of Christ as this is not worth it, this is not true, and going back to or going to something else. so the test is perseverance to the end,

Allen: Which God Himself will enable. Hm. He who called you is faithful and he will do it. Yeah. I've heard it said once, put it this way, God keeps by warning. Yeah, I mean isn't that true of of true of parents? If you tell your kid something, y y there's often a warning. If you don't do this, you will go into timeout. And so that's right. So

Dennis: Which God Himself will enable. Hm. He who called you is faithful and he will do it. Yeah. I've heard it said once, put it this way, God keeps by warning. Yeah, I mean isn't that true of of true of parents? If you tell your kid something, y y there's often a warning. If you don't do this, you will go into timeout. And so that's right. So

Allen: Yeah, it's they're to be taken seriously. but not to unsettle people in terms of their their faith in Christ. Yeah, their assurance. We've been given the Holy Spirit if if we've trusted in Christ. We've been given the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is a deposit, a guarantee that God will by his spirit complete the work he's he's already begun. Mm-hmm.

Dennis: Yeah, it's they're to be taken seriously. but not to unsettle people in terms of their their faith in Christ. Yeah, their assurance. We've been given the Holy Spirit if if we've trusted in Christ. We've been given the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is a deposit, a guarantee that God will by his spirit complete the work he's he's already begun. Mm-hmm.

Allen: Yeah, that's helpful. he's not trying to the the author is not trying to say, Hey, you can lose your salvation, but what he's trying to do is keep us in Christ, keep us faithful, keep us obedient and to persevere. Persevere to the end. The imagery of chapter twelve. Run run with perseverance the race that is set before you set before you. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Think of Paul. I finished the race, right? I fought the good fight. Why is Paul able to claim that? Well, 'cause he did.

Dennis: Yeah, that's helpful. he's not trying to the the author is not trying to say, Hey, you can lose your salvation, but what he's trying to do is keep us in Christ, keep us faithful, keep us obedient and to persevere. Persevere to the end. The imagery of chapter twelve. Run run with perseverance the race that is set before you set before you. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Think of Paul. I finished the race, right? I fought the good fight. Why is Paul able to claim that? Well, 'cause he did.

Allen: By the power of the Holy Spirit who kept him and helped him and God who endured that through him, right? Mm-hmm. It's cool. maybe maybe one other one other question here the first one is why did Jesus have to become human? 'Cause I think chapter two speaks of that very explicitly. And then three through fourteen, he goes on this section, this topic of Sabbath rest.

Dennis: By the power of the Holy Spirit who kept him and helped him and God who endured that through him, right? Mm-hmm. It's cool. maybe maybe one other one other question here the first one is why did Jesus have to become human? 'Cause I think chapter two speaks of that very explicitly. And then three through fourteen, he goes on this section, this topic of Sabbath rest.

Allen: And entering the Sabbath rest. but yeah, why do why how does Hebrews 2 specifically speak to why Jesus had to be become human? It speaks to it because he had to become human to fulfill the divine destiny of humanity. God mankind was created in God's image and was intended to to to glorify God by filling and subduing

Dennis: And entering the Sabbath rest. but yeah, why do why how does Hebrews 2 specifically speak to why Jesus had to be become human? It speaks to it because he had to become human to fulfill the divine destiny of humanity. God mankind was created in God's image and was intended to to to glorify God by filling and subduing

Allen: the earth all to God's glory, and that destiny has been marred by Adam's sin. And Jesus came as a human to fulfill that divine destiny that through his suffering. He didn't come as a conquering king, he came as a suffering servant. Right. And he he had to become a human and able to sympathize

Dennis: the earth all to God's glory, and that destiny has been marred by Adam's sin. And Jesus came as a human to fulfill that divine destiny that through his suffering. He didn't come as a conquering king, he came as a suffering servant. Right. And he he had to become a human and able to sympathize

Allen: with those whom he represents in his death. Mm-hmm. So y chapter two does stress the n necessity of the incarnation that Jesus had to become human to represent and to help those whom he came he came to save. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it it's the idea that he had to

Dennis: with those whom he represents in his death. Mm-hmm. So y chapter two does stress the n necessity of the incarnation that Jesus had to become human to represent and to help those whom he came he came to save. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it it's the idea that he had to

Allen: Become human to defeat the devil, who man failed to defeat, right? Mm-hmm. he had to defeat death because, you know, the wages of sin is death, so all would die. And then also to be a final sacrifice, right? It required a human life, right? For sacrifice, right? 'Cause it was man who sinned against him. So Christ became human to do that. So you kinda get that maybe that that threefold movement of he defeat death, defeat Satan, and then also to be a requirement of sacrifice and fulfill and obey the law, right? He accomplished what we

Dennis: Become human to defeat the devil, who man failed to defeat, right? Mm-hmm. he had to defeat death because, you know, the wages of sin is death, so all would die. And then also to be a final sacrifice, right? It required a human life, right? For sacrifice, right? 'Cause it was man who sinned against him. So Christ became human to do that. So you kinda get that maybe that that threefold movement of he defeat death, defeat Satan, and then also to be a requirement of sacrifice and fulfill and obey the law, right? He accomplished what we

Allen: could not accomplish and he died the death that we deserve as we said it, as many have said it. yeah. And as the last Adam or the greater Adam to realize the divine destiny, if you will, of humanity through his humanity and his his that is to be in fellowship with the holy God. Mm-hmm. through what he's done on the cross.

Dennis: could not accomplish and he died the death that we deserve as we said it, as many have said it. yeah. And as the last Adam or the greater Adam to realize the divine destiny, if you will, of humanity through his humanity and his his that is to be in fellowship with the holy God. Mm-hmm. through what he's done on the cross.

Allen: Yeah, that's great. And then the last question here, what does it mean the Sabbath comments three one through fourteen here?

Dennis: Yeah, that's great. And then the last question here, what does it mean the Sabbath comments three one through fourteen here?

Allen: Yeah, i i in this is part of a warning in chapter three the the warning starts at verse seven and the argument here in chapter three, verse seven, all the way through four verse thirteen is a tight one. It's a it's complicated argument, and sometimes it's hard to kind of sort out what

Dennis: Yeah, i i in this is part of a warning in chapter three the the warning starts at verse seven and the argument here in chapter three, verse seven, all the way through four verse thirteen is a tight one. It's a it's complicated argument, and sometimes it's hard to kind of sort out what

Allen: What the author of Hebrews is doing. He's talking about rest, and he begins the warning here by quoting from Psalm 95. He begins with that quote, and Psalm 95, it it he begins by saying that the Holy Spirit says the Holy Spirit is the ultimate author, if you will, but then he refers to David as being the author in chapter four and verse seven.

Dennis: What the author of Hebrews is doing. He's talking about rest, and he begins the warning here by quoting from Psalm 95. He begins with that quote, and Psalm 95, it it he begins by saying that the Holy Spirit says the Holy Spirit is the ultimate author, if you will, but then he refers to David as being the author in chapter four and verse seven.

Allen: So David in his day, we'll just say the year 1000 BC. David in his day is calling on his own contemporaries, and the readers of Psalm 95. He's calling on them not to repeat the mistake that Israel made in the wilderness by refusing Israel, refusing to go into the promised land when it was opened before them. It's the

Dennis: So David in his day, we'll just say the year 1000 BC. David in his day is calling on his own contemporaries, and the readers of Psalm 95. He's calling on them not to repeat the mistake that Israel made in the wilderness by refusing Israel, refusing to go into the promised land when it was opened before them. It's the

Allen: Too many people, too powerful, we can't do this. So it's a warning in David's day that uses the this experience, this earlier experience from the book of Numbers, and then he applies it to Christians, don't repeat he r David re applies it to his contemporaries, but the author of Hebrews applies it to his readers, don't repeat the unbelief.

Dennis: Too many people, too powerful, we can't do this. So it's a warning in David's day that uses the this experience, this earlier experience from the book of Numbers, and then he applies it to Christians, don't repeat he r David re applies it to his contemporaries, but the author of Hebrews applies it to his readers, don't repeat the unbelief.

Allen: Of Israel and he says that the the there is a rest that remains to be entered. Now the question is, what is this rest? Right. He calls it a Sabbath rest over in verse nine of chapter four. and is this rest that he's talking about here calling Christians to enter, is it the rest of

Dennis: Of Israel and he says that the the there is a rest that remains to be entered. Now the question is, what is this rest? Right. He calls it a Sabbath rest over in verse nine of chapter four. and is this rest that he's talking about here calling Christians to enter, is it the rest of

Allen: Trusting in Christ for salvation, resting in Christ and not resting in ourselves. And that's one way it can be that's a very common way to understand it. Matthew eleven, come to me, all you are weary and weary and everything and I will give you rest. So you come you in faith to Christ and he gives you rest from the burden of your sin. That's a common way to understand it. Others think that what

Dennis: Trusting in Christ for salvation, resting in Christ and not resting in ourselves. And that's one way it can be that's a very common way to understand it. Matthew eleven, come to me, all you are weary and weary and everything and I will give you rest. So you come you in faith to Christ and he gives you rest from the burden of your sin. That's a common way to understand it. Others think that what

Allen: That's not in view here, as true as that may be, where elsewhere. And and I'm of this number. I think what's in view here is not trusting in Christ for our salvation, but it's what what's in view here is the eternal rest in God's presence. And what convinces me of this is that the author of Hebrews himself explains.

Dennis: That's not in view here, as true as that may be, where elsewhere. And and I'm of this number. I think what's in view here is not trusting in Christ for our salvation, but it's what what's in view here is the eternal rest in God's presence. And what convinces me of this is that the author of Hebrews himself explains.

Allen: The rest that he's talking about here by connecting it to the seventh day of creation where God rested. And God wasn't trusting in someone else, he wasn't tired out, but God's resting is and the the key verse for for my understanding is nine and ten of the key verses. So then there remains remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Dennis: The rest that he's talking about here by connecting it to the seventh day of creation where God rested. And God wasn't trusting in someone else, he wasn't tired out, but God's resting is and the the key verse for for my understanding is nine and ten of the key verses. So then there remains remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Allen: For who whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works, but then there's the rest of the verse, as God did from his. He's comparing the rest he has in view here with what God did on the seventh day of creation. And God's rest on the seventh day of creation was a resting because the work was accomplished. The work was done. It was finished.

Dennis: For who whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works, but then there's the rest of the verse, as God did from his. He's comparing the rest he has in view here with what God did on the seventh day of creation. And God's rest on the seventh day of creation was a resting because the work was accomplished. The work was done. It was finished.

Allen: And so when the author of Hebrews here calls his readers, he says in verse 11, therefore let us strive to enter that rest. That's part of his call to perseverance, holding out this rest like the rest of God on the seventh day of creation, holding that out as the hope and the prospect for God's people, as after they have run with perseverance, the race marked out for them. I think that's the incentive. It's heaven, if you will.

Dennis: And so when the author of Hebrews here calls his readers, he says in verse 11, therefore let us strive to enter that rest. That's part of his call to perseverance, holding out this rest like the rest of God on the seventh day of creation, holding that out as the hope and the prospect for God's people, as after they have run with perseverance, the race marked out for them. I think that's the incentive. It's heaven, if you will.

Allen: It's the world to come, which he he refers to it before earlier. It's the city without foundations, all of that, those are different ways of referring to the same future thing that is our goal and is if you will, the incentive to persevere now so that we can enter God's Sabbath rest, yeah, with our race being finished and our work being done.

Dennis: It's the world to come, which he he refers to it before earlier. It's the city without foundations, all of that, those are different ways of referring to the same future thing that is our goal and is if you will, the incentive to persevere now so that we can enter God's Sabbath rest, yeah, with our race being finished and our work being done.

Allen: all of course because of the work of Christ. So for with that interpretation and understanding, you would say the encouragement for the believer now is that there's a future rest laid up for you in the future in the new Jerusalem where we'll be with God and that when that is when our rest will be completed, and you can long for that and strive in perseverance now because that rest awaits you. That's our incentive. That's our that's the incentive. That's our motivation.

Dennis: all of course because of the work of Christ. So for with that interpretation and understanding, you would say the encouragement for the believer now is that there's a future rest laid up for you in the future in the new Jerusalem where we'll be with God and that when that is when our rest will be completed, and you can long for that and strive in perseverance now because that rest awaits you. That's our incentive. That's our that's the incentive. That's our motivation.

Allen: If you're on a long trip in a car and y your motivation is to get home. Yeah, that's right. and you don't just get in a car, turn on the keys and start driving and say, Hopefully you you would ru you lose your mind, right? You're you there's a destination awaiting. You're going somewhere. Yeah. and it's so much better than even this. Yeah. so it's an incentive. It's it's what God holds before us to encourage us

Dennis: If you're on a long trip in a car and y your motivation is to get home. Yeah, that's right. and you don't just get in a car, turn on the keys and start driving and say, Hopefully you you would ru you lose your mind, right? You're you there's a destination awaiting. You're going somewhere. Yeah. and it's so much better than even this. Yeah. so it's an incentive. It's it's what God holds before us to encourage us

Allen: Persevere. This letter, though, it's very theological. Yeah. It's always theology with a very pa from a very pastoral heart. It's theology. He he knows his readers. He knows something of his readers. He knows their situation. And he's concerned about them. And so he writes this letter or preaches this sermon in letter form to encourage them to press on because

Dennis: Persevere. This letter, though, it's very theological. Yeah. It's always theology with a very pa from a very pastoral heart. It's theology. He he knows his readers. He knows something of his readers. He knows their situation. And he's concerned about them. And so he writes this letter or preaches this sermon in letter form to encourage them to press on because

Allen: Of the truth of the gospel. Yeah. So the book of Hebrews could be summarized as see how great Jesus is, therefore press on. Amen. That's the message of of the book. So it's always very theology in the service of practical living, yeah, perseverance. Yeah. And of course, it's the Spirit of God who regenerates us in the first place.

Dennis: Of the truth of the gospel. Yeah. So the book of Hebrews could be summarized as see how great Jesus is, therefore press on. Amen. That's the message of of the book. So it's always very theology in the service of practical living, yeah, perseverance. Yeah. And of course, it's the Spirit of God who regenerates us in the first place.

Allen: But then also is the deposit working in us to conform us within us to conform us to the image of Christ. That's our goal, to be come like Christ. Not that we become Christ, right, but he becomes our model, our goal. and and that's part of the argument of the book of Hebrews later on, looking to the looking to Jesus. Yeah. Amen. And pressing on.

Dennis: But then also is the deposit working in us to conform us within us to conform us to the image of Christ. That's our goal, to be come like Christ. Not that we become Christ, right, but he becomes our model, our goal. and and that's part of the argument of the book of Hebrews later on, looking to the looking to Jesus. Yeah. Amen. And pressing on.

Allen: Amen. Well, I think that's a great spot to end there. Press on, believer, because the work is finished in Christ and there awaits a rest in Christ. In the d New Jerusalem will be with God face to face. Who can? We've talked about this. Who can stand before a holy God? Only Christ himself and all those who are in him. So as you are in Christ, you can stand before a holy God, waiting for the Son of Man at His return, and knowing that you have that rest. Dennis, would you pray for

Dennis: Amen. Well, I think that's a great spot to end there. Press on, believer, because the work is finished in Christ and there awaits a rest in Christ. In the d New Jerusalem will be with God face to face. Who can? We've talked about this. Who can stand before a holy God? Only Christ himself and all those who are in him. So as you are in Christ, you can stand before a holy God, waiting for the Son of Man at His return, and knowing that you have that rest. Dennis, would you pray for

Allen: Our listeners, thank you so much for coming on this episode and blessing our listeners. I know they'll be highly blessed as you guys are as they listen to this here. and just yeah, we're thankful for all your faithful ministry in the church here in the in all the other churches and places and people whom you've served. So would you pray for us? Sure. Thank you.

Dennis: Our listeners, thank you so much for coming on this episode and blessing our listeners. I know they'll be highly blessed as you guys are as they listen to this here. and just yeah, we're thankful for all your faithful ministry in the church here in the in all the other churches and places and people whom you've served. So would you pray for us? Sure. Thank you.

Allen: Our Father, we thank you for your word.

Dennis: Our Father, we thank you for your word.

Allen: We thank you that you didn't leave us to ourselves after Adam's sin, but you had promised to send us a savior.

Dennis: We thank you that you didn't leave us to ourselves after Adam's sin, but you had promised to send us a Savior.

Allen: We thank you for your faithfulness over the centuries, keeping that promise through the Jewish people, and particularly through the with the coming of Jesus. We thank you for his faithful ministry. We thank you for his life, his death, his resurrection, his ascension. And we thank you now as we think about the race before us. We thank you that now he is seated at your right hand and he is.

Dennis: We thank you for your faithfulness over the centuries, keeping that promise through the Jewish people, and particularly through the with the coming of Jesus. We thank you for his faithful ministry. We thank you for his life, his death, his resurrection, his ascension. And we thank you now as we think about the race before us. We thank you that now he is seated at your right hand and he is.

Allen: interceding for us we thank you that we don't run this race in our own energy in our own strength well we thank you that we run it by your grace by your daily strength through the work of your spirit in us so my prayer father is for myself for Alan for this church for all those who may be listening we pray father that Christ would be exalted

Dennis: interceding for us we thank you that we don't run this race in our own energy in our own strength well we thank you that we run it by your grace by your daily strength through the work of your spirit in us so my prayer father is for myself for Alan for this church for all those who may be listening we pray father that Christ would be exalted

Allen: That you would enable us by your spirit to run the race marked set out before us with faithfulness until the day when we will be in that Sabbath rest and together with all the saints of the ages will worship you forever. Make that our hope and our incentive, we pray, Father, today, as we ask it in Jesus' name, Amen. Amen.

Dennis: That you would enable us by your spirit to run the race marked set out before us with faithfulness until the day when we will be in that Sabbath rest and together with all the saints of the ages will worship you forever. Make that our hope and our incentive, we pray, Father, today, as we ask it in Jesus' name, Amen. Amen.

Allen: Well, this has been another episode of the SCC Saver Podcast. We are on Apple, YouTube, and Spotify. Be sure to share with your friends, and we'll see you next time.

Dennis: Well, this has been another episode of the SCC Saver Podcast. We are on Apple, YouTube, and Spotify. Be sure to share with your friends, and we'll see you next time.