Leftovers - Finances (Matthew 6:19-24)

Happy Monday. Pastor Matt's back in with you.

Pastor Chris is is also here. I'm here.

I'm Preston accounted for. I had the visual just like snafu

of how we see Pastor differently when Chris is attached to it

then Pastor Matt like. Well, I think there's an air of

like maturity when we say Pastor Matt and then matching my

personality, there's an air of immaturity when we say pants to

Chris. But I just had like, I don't

know. That's when you said even when

you said that I have like the misspelled visual.

I had it this morning. It's like PASTER like we we say

pastor, like not pastor. It's it's pastor Chris.

I don't know, I don't know. That's a weird.

The only time I hear anybody, the only time I ever hear

anybody really emphasis the emphasize the ore on pastor is

when you order from a Mexican restaurant.

You know what I'm? Talking about pastor, like

pastor tacos El pastor, yeah. See, that's when I hear the hard

OR is tacos El pastor. Right.

Or pastoral like that that full word.

Yeah, we I guess it's not like an O It it is Pastor, pastor.

Pastor. You get a little nasally.

Though you get a little nasal, see it, it works.

When you get a little nasally on it, you're like, hey pastor, did

you have good Sunday pastor? You have a good worship set,

Pastor. I mean, why not?

90 seconds in and we're off the rails.

Welcome to the ERC Leftovers podcast.

We try to continue the conversation and offer a little

more insight, a different level of depth on the weekends sermon

and message. Things that we either didn't get

to in the message or were were left unsaid or just our further

line of thought from the messages at Emmaus Rd.

Church here. So we were yesterday you closed

out the four FS, faith, family, fitness and finances.

So this past week was, was finances and I thought, man,

like I in the moment, I do not remember the sermon of yours in

the moment that I was just like, he's absolutely crushing it.

And that's not, and that's not to say like, like I, I enjoy, I

enjoy your preaching. I've had other messages before,

but just, I just thought like start to finish the stories that

you told the, the analogies that you made and the conclusions

that you like drew out of those stories and the scripture like

it was, it was a master class in communication yesterday, man.

And not maybe not everyone felt that way.

I, I did and some of the other people I talked to did so well

done. I, I thought like you prefaced

it. Well, finances is this awkward?

Hey, how much going into this message?

How much is he going to tell me to put in the plate this week?

Like that's, that's where we're going.

And it wasn't, I didn't think it was that at all.

And the other part of it, we'll get to it later as we, your,

your main text was in Matthew 6. And we'll, we'll go through some

more of that. But then the, the 2nd

Corinthians 9 passage to the, the other part of that, that

struck me in the moment. And you drew out really well.

You, you asked the three reflection questions quickly.

Did I tell you what percentage did I tell you amount of money

to give? Did I tell you that you have to

give to, to come here? As you were asking those

questions and I was looking at the words of, of 2nd Corinthians

9, like I had I in the moment, I had like, and you, you jokingly

said not a salesman or, or, or like you've said that before

too. And I was just like, this is the

worst sales pitch ever, man. Like because because you're like

even even from you and me. God loves a cheerful giver.

OK yeah, sure it's true. And an emphasis then on the

cheerful part, right, that that's what you brought out and

that's of of that phrase. The cheerful part is what

matters to God in that. But like, again, in the

profession that we've opted into and you're not being the

salesman of, of make sure that like I have a job by your

giving. Like we, we could sinfully and

selfishly like focus. OK, But it's important that you

give because that's I'm I'm here.

I'm so my livelihood is supported by your giving or even

in that phrase that you I could bring go to a point of I don't.

I honestly don't care that you give cheerfully as long as you

give because that's right. Like, and that's not what you're

saying at all. But but I had that thought.

No. That's so funny you say it that

way. I had that thought process in

the moment of like this dude's nuts.

Like we do, we do in order to like even just perpetuate and

continue on. We just we need the giving part

of it. And like this we're we're insane

for having opted into this of just depending on the the as

people are led to give in their heart like we have no guarantee

of anything. And we're just like, yes.

So well, part of that comes to Pastor Jason Lang when he was

here and I'd kind of announced and we had talked through the

possibility of me going to seminary and going in to

ministry as a full time career. You know, he told me the reality

of that. He said, listen, Chris, he's

like every single paycheck you will get for the rest of your

life is a gift. It is not earned.

It is not something that you quote UN quote deserve.

It is a gift from God and from your people because they believe

in how the gospel is moving and being taught and how that's

working out in and through your ministry.

He's like, and that's true no matter where you go.

And so I took a little while to think about that going into

seminary. And the first like, quote, UN

quote, like paycheck I ever got from being in ministry full

time, man, it hit me like a ton of bricks.

I was like, this paycheck exists because people believe in what

God's Word says and they believe in the ministry that's happening

right here that I get to be a part of.

And so, yeah, I absolutely, I take that seriously.

And I also take it from the sense of like, I'm never going

to be afraid. I'm never going to be afraid of

not being able to feed my family because God is faithful and

through God's faithfulness, He will spur on in ways that I

probably don't even understand. He will spur on people to give

to ministries that matter. Yeah.

And that's really well, really well said.

And I don't feel that fear either.

Just it just kind of struck me like God, the the mind of God

versus the mind of man, like rationally, that that's an

insane thing for a regular person should be up there and

not and be preaching to people saying I don't want you to give

reluctantly or under compulsion. It supports my livelihood and it

supports what I'm doing here and in and in that vein, yes,

incredibly grateful. We are Christian says we thank

you for your your partnership in the Gospel.

And that's yeah, incredibly grateful for for the giving that

there isn't worry or fear really.

I I never have that we should in the reading of that text.

We potentially should have worry or fear because it's wholly

dependent on the generosity and and heart leading of people to

give. But in that just met with met

with gratitude, met with thankfulness for for for you all

at this church and and how God has LED you to support and

believe and and invest in this for I mean, we're in the this

congregation is in its 5th decade and heading strong

towards 50 years and really cool to be a part of so thankful.

Yeah, I had. It was interesting.

I did have somebody who will go unnamed.

I had somebody go so like, this is your job.

And I was like, yeah, it's it's how I feed my family.

It's how I, you know, pay the bills.

And they're like, yeah, but but but who pays you?

And I went, well, you do seriously.

Like I don't Somehow, somehow for this person, they had not

made the connection that what they give to their local church

is in, you know, it goes to a lot of different things.

But one of the places it goes is so that I can, can I and you can

and Kristen can continue this work formally Speaking of making

sure that the gospel goes in, in our, it's taught to our people

and you know, all that. But yeah, it just, it struck me

funny and I didn't laugh at them because I knew that'd be really

disrespectful. Right.

And I did laugh and I don't, I don't want, I don't want that to

be disrespectful at all. And it is if I'm doing the the

math quickly in my head and we're completely transparent.

You can, you can grab a copy of the budget at the connection

center anytime that you want it. Just quick math in my head.

I think we're in that like 45 to 50% of our budget is for it's,

it's for staff pay and between between the three of us.

So I mean that's half of every dollar is given is for us to do

the work of the gospel that you all that you all believe in.

And and for us to lead and shepherd this people in that,

that, that is what that goes to. So it's not, I mean, it's not a

crazy question like who who pays you?

Because on the other side of that, there's definitely other

churches and you and you hit it on the head that they might have

an expectation of this is how this is how many zeros you have

to put on the check to, to be here.

This is the we want to see your income.

So we know the percentage that you're giving and it has to be

XYZ because likely at those churches, most of that money is

not staying in that congregation or that community actually.

So that's, yeah, not a strange question to me at all.

Because you don't, you don't know where that money is going

or staying. And yeah.

Well, and I think it's interesting to the fact that,

gosh, I keep on going back to every single dollar you receive

as a gift. I just, I constantly go back to

it in my head. I mean, honestly, I every single

month that there is money deposited in my account, I'm

like, thank you, Jesus. You know, not that I not that

I'm shocked to get it, but in some way it just, it positions

my heart, you know, to always receive everything with with

gratitude and thanks. And I think what that ultimately

does, and then in the Bible talks about this, what that

ultimately does is it provides a level of contentment that I

don't think I had in secular jobs or careers.

Because in, you know, here's the thing in, in secular work life,

everything I got, I was like, yeah, I worked my butt off for

that. I deserve that.

That's mine. In fact, they owe me more

because all the unnamed hours I put in and all this kind of

stuff. But I've never had that attitude

in ministry. And it's not because like, I'm

this perfectly enlightened person, it's because.

Or even that they're paying you a boatload of cash because

they're not spoilers. They're not spoiler, but but I

just, I, I took what Jason said is truth and I take that

seriously month in and month out.

And I absolutely believe it in my bones that it is a gift to be

able to do ministry and still feed my family and pay the

bills. And I cannot imagine any other

thing that I could be doing which would be more life giving

in terms of my, my spirit, my soul, like the what I enjoy as a

human being. It's so life giving to be able

to do ministry, particularly with this group of people right

here in DeWitt. And because I have done ministry

in other places and it has not been so fulfilling.

But here it's like, I just feel like we, we've arrived, we're,

we're home and we just absolutely love it here.

And so it does feel like a gift to be able to do both ministry

and to make a living wage on that.

Yeah, yeah, it's awesome. So thanks for having us as a

part of your community here. Thank you for being a part of

our church community. We wrapped up the four FS,

faith, family, fitness and finances, refreshed some books

on the ERC picks, kind of the, the books that we have available

that kind of align in those spheres of life.

There's another we, we had the total money makeover from Dave

Ramsey out there. Of course, Financial Peace

University is going on right now.

I think there's, I think there's 10 couples doing financial peace

right now, which is, which is awesome.

So like, thank you, you guys for for responding in these things

as as we are trying to, we're not just up there waxing

eloquence about these areas. We are trying to like after

offer practical solution and encouragement to to biblically

align these areas of your life within, Yeah, in a Christ

honoring Christ following way. So thank you for responding to

and engaging in, in things like that.

But in addition to that, the the breaking be wow, the breaking

free from broke that that was another money book that we put

out there too. That's George Campbell.

Is it camel, camel, camel? I haven't read that one yet, but

I bet it's excellent. Yeah, and he's one of the guys

on the on the Ramsey podcast that is, is one of the main guys

if you listen to yeah, if you listen to Ramsey, it's George

from the Ramsey podcast. But so his book's out there.

We've got a couple other ones. I was the welcome to adulting,

but I think it's JP Paduca, John John Paduca, JP So and and it's

funny because he took the premise.

It's, I think, I think it is family, friendships and finances

like this. So he even within this book, I,

I put it on the, I put it in the faith category.

But but it's yeah, no, it's faith, faith.

I think he did faith, family, friendship and finances.

Where is the subtitle of that? So, so friendship in there, not,

not fitness necessarily, but anyway, it aligned with the FS.

He used a lot of FS too. And that was, that was a great

resource that I enjoyed. But welcome to adulting.

Whether you're not quite at adulthood or you're mired in in

your second, third, 4th decade of adulthood and still feel like

you're a child, I don't know. I take, I take the phrase child

of God very seriously and therefore I act as such often

times. And it's been working out for me

pretty good. But maybe before you leave for

the summer, I ought to start adulting because when you leave,

the adult leaves the room and you're leaving the room for for

a decent amount of time, several weeks.

And so, I mean, I don't know. I don't know what you're going

to be walking back into in August, bud.

I'm not sure what that's going to look like.

Great. So encourage you to continue

using those resources. Again, the ERC pics are out

there for you to just kind of see and hold and leaf through

the book and and get a taste of it before you actually order it

online. I know sometimes you can be

flying blind with is this book what I want it to be or what I

was expecting. So you can look at them before

you buy them out there and just continue, yeah, continue your

education in in the ways of yeah, that God would have us go.

It's I'm not saying any of these are replacement from the Bible,

but a lot of them are derived from the Bible.

A lot of the thoughts in there are biblical following and

experience from from Christ's followers applying them to these

areas of our life. So encourage you to check those

resources out, 'cause the world is crazy and we need to not be,

not be crazy. There's a lot of, there's a lot

of wild things going on in our world right now.

And of course encourage you to be constantly in prayer over all

those things of, of our, of our leaders and, and earthly

authorities and, and just people in, in general.

But the, the craziest things that are happening, man, there's

exploding trees everywhere, 'cause it's cold everywhere.

There's just apparently there's just exploding trees everywhere

from the cold. I don't know.

Have you heard about this? I mean, it's a hilarious

concept. Just trees floating all over the

place. Just what?

What? What?

No, no, come on. So I don't know, yeah, there's,

I think it's the same picture. I feel like it's the same

picture that I see virally over social media.

And honestly, it looks like this tree's trunk got like got shot.

Open it there's there's no way it exploded this much.

Like just from the cold. I get how sonics works.

Ice water, when it freezes it expands right?

Like ice. You can fill a bottle of water,

put it in your freezer and that cap will probably burst off

because the the ice occupies more physical space than the

liquid water. That's just how physics and

thermodynamics work. Hashtag not a teacher or expert

or anything but like I use the word thermodynamics so you have

to believe me. That's a good word.

I like that one. So like it makes sense the

moisture in the tree, if it got cold enough, would solidify and

kind of like expand, right, the the mass of the tree potentially

beyond its bark. But I don't know if it's people

just trolling because there's lots of areas of the country

like like Texas and and some of the Carolinas and stuff that

are, that are mired in an unseasonable cold, like a

generational cold that they don't usually get.

So I don't know if it's just people up north just like

throwing these troll bombs down at a you guys better watch out

for those exploding trees. It's going to get cold enough.

We deal with this all the time in Minnesota and and North

Dakota. But like Texas, get ready for

some exploding trees. That's why there isn't a higher

population in like Alaska because there's so many

casualties from exploding trees. You're just, you're walking

through the forest, you're taking a nice little stroll,

you're looking at the the wildlife and boom, exploding

tree and all you all of a sudden you have like wood shrapnel and

you're like, Oh no, I got caught by the exploding tree.

I am yet another casualty. This is how I imagine this

thing. And in my head, it's both

terrible and and just hilarious. Yeah, like.

I don't it doesn't, it doesn't look to me like this is a

widespread craziness, but it was just it was just something that

I saw and I'm wondering if yeah, wondering if people are actually

worried about this. The other thing Kristen brought

up the and again, I don't know if it's just a trolling people

who don't usually have to deal with cold sort of thing.

There was, I think there's a girl who like she put a sock on

and then she wrapped her foot in in aluminum foil and then she

put another sock on so that it could like retain heat in her

foot. And I, it looked like are are we

just, are we trolling people in temperate climates that like

better put foil on your foot. That's how you keep your toes

warm. You don't know how to deal with

cold. So I'm going to like it seems

really mean. It would be, really.

Funny to have a bunch of people in like Texas walking around

with tin foil feet just because they believe some weird, some

weirdo in the north that this is how we do things.

I've never done it, I've never tried, and I still have all my

toes right. Yeah, that's like not even,

yeah, not even anything that's ever crossed my mind to do.

But yet somehow half the country gets thrown into a crazy cold

that they shouldn't have to deal with and.

You know what, maybe that's part of the armor, because it's part

of the armor to to defend yourself against the exploding

trees. You know you have to wrap

yourself in tinfoil because the wood will not penetrate the

tinfoil. It knows better.

Pretty sure that tree should happen.

I was going right through that sheet that's in boil.

I don't think you're making armor right.

All I can see in my brain when I hear the phrase like exploding

trees is like a Hollywood level explosion.

That's all I can see in my head. It's not like this soft cracking

of a base of a tree and you're like, oh, that tree's toast now

because, you know, it cracked up the middle.

No, I see like Hollywood level explosions happening and.

That's the thing. When it happens in nature, it's

probably very unspectacular. It's probably it's just like a

gradual, like cracking out of the.

I don't think all of a sudden that the ice is just like

couldn't contain that anymore. Whoever decided to call it

exploding trees and not like cracking trees or whatever,

because you know, we don't say, OK, so let's say for example,

you're into ice fishing. Sometimes you will be on the ice

and you will hear the ice cracking.

That doesn't necessarily mean you're unsafe, but it cracks and

then it refreezes and, and actually it's a little bit

stronger after that process. So like, but we don't call that

exploding ice. When you're ice fishing, you

don't hear like this subtle crack happening.

You're like, Oh my gosh, the ice is exploding.

Like no, because that brings a very different picture into your

brain that I think is unrealistic.

So you know, but maybe you know what, here's the thing, and I

Christian brought this up. Maybe the exploding trees is why

there's so many logs in people's eyes.

Let's make let's make an exegetical connection here.

Exploding trees equal log in the eye facts check it do.

It Oh my goodness, yeah. It always, always comes back to

the Bible. We brought it back.

We brought it back. So yeah, let us know if you've

heard any other crazy, crazy things with the crazy cold.

We've got foil feet and exploding trees.

So anyway, that's what's that's what's happening in our psyche

this week. Stay warm.

I think it's a high of 0 into it this week, like just all week.

It's not going to get above 0. So that'll be fun.

Yep. Really enjoy that.

Thank you God for the beauty of your creation and how cold it

is. It gives us reason to buy cool

winter jackets. It's great.

Yes, all right, we are in Matthew 6.

You preached on verses 19 through 24.

It it goes on. You kept a really, I thought you

did a really good job of, of keeping a succinct idea and, and

kind of similar vein throughout your message because you can go

into out after Jesus talks about not worrying about money and

laying up treasures in heaven. Then he gets into a whole

passage on, on worrying and, and how God will provide even for

the least of things. So why wouldn't he also provide

for you? So we can we can get into that

maybe a little bit later too, because I think it relates to

how we view money. But Matthew chapter 6, starting

Matthew 6 · chapter mention

at verse 19. Do not lay up for yourselves

treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy and where

thieves break in and steal. But lay up for yourselves

treasures in heaven, where neither must wrath, wow, moth

nor rust destroy and where thieves do not break in and

steal. For where your treasure is there

your heart will be. Also.

The main question I had out of that and even from yesterday,

what's the, what's the practical functional you, you use the

phrase of investing in the things of eternity, investing in

the things that last. Why would we?

You asked the question, why would we invest money in, in

things that we cannot keep in a place we cannot stay?

I thought that was great. So how do we how do we lay up

treasures in heaven though? Like how do how do we go about

where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

I do think that it goes back to I, I asked kind of a kind of a

question during the introduction, which is what can

you take with you? You know, and ultimately

recognizing, and I'm not the original person who said it, but

you can take people and praises with you.

That's what you get to take into eternity.

And so then, you know, you shift that and you say, OK, well, how

then do I invest in people and quote UN quote praises, meaning

like worship of God? What what did those kind of

investments look like? How how do I practically start

to put my time resources, my energy resources, my financial

resources? How do I start to put that into

people and praises to grow the Kingdom of God, to grow an

awareness of the gospel of Jesus Christ and all those things.

And I think I don't think you have to try too hard to find the

right answer to that question then.

So like, if I'm going to start investing in people, OK, well,

that could look as simple as, you know, what I want to do.

Like we could go out to eat tonight or I could, I could buy

like really nice food and invite my neighbor over who I'm

friendly with but who doesn't really know Jesus.

Why don't I invite them over for like a nice dinner?

And why don't I get to know them to the point where we built a

relationship where it's now potentially comfortable to start

to have a bigger conversation about faith, You know, and that

doesn't necessarily happen real quickly necessarily, but it

could happen if I'm willing to again.

And it's a little creative, isn't it?

That scenario I just painted. It's a little creative, but I

think it does very much work in terms of, OK, I'm going to start

investing some dollars into reaching one more.

And that's just one of a million different ways you could do

that. Yeah.

And I think the tricky part with that is we don't always see like

an immediate dividend of that, right.

We don't, we don't always see the immediate payback or result

of of maybe some of these things start up in eternity.

But a lot of the time we, we have to, we have to recalibrate

our expectations even for non money things with a with a money

lens, what's what's the most, what's the most powerful tool in

investment? It's time, right?

Like the you that that's that's the best what you set aside

$10,000 now, OK, 30 years from now, yeah, that'll that will

have grown. But if you had set aside $10,000

thirty years ago and you're right now and what that has

grown into by now and will grow into the next 30 like that, that

time compounds, right? That the the interest compounds

over time. And I think those are, that's

more often what we should be focused on the, the, the concept

of, I mean, the currency of time being, being attention, paying

attention to the things, investing, sure, actual dollars,

but investing actual attention, actual time in people, in our,

in our praises, in our, our life of worship, how we rightly

Orient ourselves in our, in our faith in response to Christ, How

that forms the household or the family or what whatever that

looks like for you specifically. And then the outflow of that I

think is, is then the last, the final two FS kind of the, the,

the fitness, the, the vessel, the temple that we are for

Christ to move in and through us through the, through the Holy

Spirit and be an example for other people.

And then, and then the finances are the outpouring.

It's, it's, I feel like Ramsey, the Ramsey people, they come

back to this all the time. You, you'd live like no one else

so that you can live and give like no one else, right?

Like that's, that's, that's the whole point of getting in

control of your finances, to be able to have an outpouring of

generosity that is not of this world that that is not conformed

to the pattern of this world, right?

That's that's the result. Yeah, well said it.

It actually, it makes me think that one of the interesting

things that now I'm just now this moment tying back all the

way to the very first F of faith and and you and you said the

word focus, right? So man, how am I investing my

focus, you know, into these different areas of my life?

And again, if you try and do all these things all at once, So

man, I'm going to read the Bible every day and I'm going to make

sure I spend X amount of time with my kids and my spouse every

day. And I'm going to get to the gym

this many times a week. And I'm going to do this with my

money. If you try and do all that at

once from like a cold start, it's going to be way

overwhelming. But I do think that like Matthew

633, we talk about it all the time.

We got the key chains like seek first, you know, the Kingdom of

God and all these things will be added to you.

And that's why I think thinking about the four FS as a whole,

that faith, peace, man, everything can flow out of that

pretty naturally. I mean, there's going to need to

be some intentionality in some of these areas of our lives.

But at the same time, everything flows out of our heart position.

And we started talking about that.

Oh, we continue to talk about that yesterday, I should say.

But if my heart is aligned with the desires of Christ, all of a

sudden I want to love my spouse better than I have before or my

kids and I want to honor the temple that God has given me to

use. And I want to honor God with my

first and my best. And so everything flows out of

that heart position. So what a what a cool thing I

think when maybe maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe I missed the boat when we first created this four FS

thing, you, me and Kristen, but like it's tying together in ways

that I had not seen when we first came up with that concept

and it's beautiful. Yeah, I think it's a natural

progression of things and and they should be interconnected.

You talking about where, how we get to the point of putting our

heart there. Verse 21 for where your treasure

is there your heart will be also the, the next verse.

And, and you talked about it a bit too.

Verse 22. The eye is the lamp of the body.

So if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of

light. But if your eye is bad, your

whole body will be full of darkness.

If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the

darkness? You, you stated it very nicely

and calmly yesterday. I, I, I think there's a grave

warning here, right on, right on the tail of where your treasure

is, there your heart will be also because there's also that

the eye is the lamp of the body. So what we are looking at, what

we are looking for, our eyes drive what we chase after, but

which then dictates what we treasure.

So in a, in a way, our eyes, our eyes follow or our heart follows

our eyes too. And in the previous chapter in,

in Matthew 5, that's Jesus warning of if your eye causes

you to sin, gouge it out and, and better that you lose 1

member of your body than your whole soul be thrown into hell.

I'm glad you didn't draw out parallels with that because

again, I think we, you could have had a whole message on the

parallels of I being the lamp of the body and, and what we do

with our sin in that way. I'm glad you didn't dwell on

that. But just that's what this

podcast is for, to dig a little deeper into these into these

parallels. I don't know that by and large

we are serious enough about this warning this this means and

you'd have to stretch really far to like literally cut off body

parts here. Yeah.

Like that's, that's not, that's not what it is, but this, this

magical little box, this phone, like you, you need to know

yourself. And I think you did a good job

with the shoe, the shoe store thing like.

You, my mother-in-law got me so bad on that one.

But you know, that's what I'm saying, you know that you don't

have the self-control if you walked into the shoe store to

not buy something yourself. Control is not even going in the

shoe store. So like in that way, you've just

Nope. We're we're walking down,

walking down the strip here. We're we're walking down the

little outlet mall. We're walking past the shoe

store. Because if I go in there, I, I

will sin like, not in that, in that analogy, spending money on

shoes is a sin. And it doesn't have to be a sin,

but like, that's your weakness. You know where you'll end up.

You know the darkness that you will find if you let that into

your eye, right? And that's the thing, you know,

I think, I think, and I don't think I'm being dramatic here.

I think on some level it could be a sin.

And I'm talking about me personally, because here's the

thing, if I, if I go home right now and I just like, oh man,

like what shoes am I going to wear today?

That's for so many people around the world.

That's even an absurd question to ask.

Which ones will I wear? Some people are just like, I'm

happy to have a pair. Have shoes to wear?

Yeah, they're falling apart. And so I mean like, and, and I

need to, it's one of the things where I want to continue to grow

in my relationship with Christ is like, I know there was a

company that, and I can't remember who they are, but for

every pair of shoes that were bought, but you know, within

that company, they would send a pair of shoes to somebody who

probably doesn't have one. Tom's did that.

Tom's did that for a while. And like, quite honestly, if

I'm. Bombas does that with socks like

that, that that's become the the previous generation really has

been like A cause centered generation.

Much more likely to spend money on this if it's backing a 'cause

that I believe in. So yeah.

Yeah, and I like that. And I really think that that

could be something that I need to be willing to model in my own

personal life, in my own spending, especially in areas

where I think I'm probably going to be a little bit selfish.

And so again, we make I make jokes about it, but like there's

some reality to that of saying, like, you know, what, if I was

going to pick up my 19th pair of shoes that I own tomorrow, man,

maybe instead of doing that, maybe I should pick up a pair

for somebody who just doesn't have any and walk away better

than I would be if I took this new set home.

Like, and that's something that I think each of us and for most

people, it's probably not shoes. I'm just a sneaker head.

But like, I don't know what that is for you as an individual, but

I think that is part of that self examination that we are,

that the Bible calls us to do. We are called to think

critically about how we use the resources that God gives us.

And that's not to say that we can't have nice things.

Of course we can. And and of course, like we can

honor God with those things. I'm not saying you should never

have anything new, but I am saying that like when we have an

abundance, which I suspect is most of us in America, when we

have an abundance, then we have to think all the more critically

about how we're using those resources.

Yeah. And I think I mean, I think

that's a great idea, a great suggestion.

It kind of goes that there is a financial thought especially

with especially with luxuries or like like non essential items.

Like to your point, you really only need one pair of shoes.

Like like I mean, whatever dress shoes, sneakers, like you might,

you might need a couple different types of shoes, but do

you need more than one pair of sneakers?

Not in actuality. No, really not.

Really, so the the financial thought is, is kind of if you

can't buy it twice, you you can't afford it.

So I mean, bring that, bring that into generosity, bring

that, bring that into Christianity.

You want, you want this pair of shoes that you don't need.

It'd be nice to have you, you enjoy them, look good at them.

But like could how would you feel if you bought one for you

and bought one for yourself? First off, could you is, is it a

healthy financial decision to even do that or that puts you

out? Secondly, can that create a

heart posture of generosity of like, yeah, OK, if I'm doing

that, what what's the, what's the good?

And then what, what am I actually in investing in future

wise or even bringing the Kingdom of heaven to earth wise

sort of sort of thing like can can you leverage your finances

that way too in in affording it twice?

And maybe the second portion is, is that model of, Hey, you buy a

pair of shoes from us. We donate a pair of shoes to

someone else. Like we perpetuate this thing.

Can we do that with things in our life?

Like, hey, OK, you're stopping to you're stopping to get a

coffee quick at at Brent's. You know what get 2 bring bring

1 to a Co worker. And if getting 2 is like, I

don't have the money for that. Do you even buy one?

Like I'm not calling out sin or or guilt or or whatever, but can

we leverage to me that's some of that where your treasure is

there your heart will be also. What's what's in that cup of

coffee for you? Can you, can you cultivate a

heart of generosity or just random act of kindness within

that within, within those things that you want or you are

predisposed to the other part of it and, and the warning part,

the eye is the lamp of the body. It's, it's your shoe.

I'll come back to the the shoe store thing.

You know how you know yourself really well, You know how you

will react. I think by and large, as, as

Christians, as as a church community, we just got to be

more real about that. We, we have to not, and not in a

not in a guilt or or shame way. Just knowing that the, the pull

and the temptation of sin is powerful.

And there are things that we just don't touch.

If you're I brought up, I brought up the phone.

They can't see me holding up the phone, but you saw me holding up

the phone. Like if there are things or

sins, whether whether it's sloth from scrolling or or

inappropriate sexual things on website like we have, we have a

computer on our phone, there's never that's never had access to

these things like ever before. It sounds crazy for me to say,

but like if you're wrapped up in some of those things, get rid

that is the gouge your eye out sort of sort of language that is

get rid of that smartphone. You can find a phone that just

has calls and texts and and that is enough for you communicate if

there are things that are either wasting time or causing sloth or

causing sin on that phone, get it out that that's that's what I

don't think we take seriously enough in this that the the

Bible does draw those boundaries.

No, there isn't but I but I need for this.

Oh, but Oh yeah. So that justifies your sin.

No, it doesn't. There's only one thing that that

justifies you before God and Jesus and that's he's not

causing you to sin on on your phone.

So like what, what is that thing?

I think we just need to own that and be more real because we know

ourselves. What is that?

Does this TV show get you wrapped up in in either anger or

desensitized to violence or, or again pushes you towards things

you shouldn't be watching, just keeping up with the news?

Does that does that heal your heart or, or does that build

anxiety and worry and strife for people in your heart?

Like that's the that's the danger here, gouging out your

eye. Your eye is the lamp for the

body. What are you?

What are you treasuring? What are you spending time and

attention on? How is it shaping you as a child

of God? I think we just need to be

stronger than that. I think we need to take better

stances on that and just drop Nope, this is I can't cross that

line. I can't do this thing might be

really reasonable. It would sound crazy for you to

just walk up to regular. Yeah, John drawn some boundaries

in my life like I just I know the person I turn into when I

walk into a shoe store and I just don't want to go there.

Like I realize I realize that sounds nuts.

I I realize it might be insane. Yeah, this is this is my phone.

Got a got a cool flip phone. Can't browse the Internet on

this. Don't have TikTok on this.

I get how crazy that would sound to just like a normal person,

but I think that's the level of. Obedience and faithfulness that

we're called to. Like, how do we actually do

that? Identify those boundaries,

Identify those bounds. Identify those things that make

you end up in places of guilt and shame and sin.

Get them out. You know, it well said.

You could have preached this text from what I'm gathering

right now. But you know, one of the things

that Dave Ramsey talks about and we keep on coming back to him,

but he makes a lot of sense in a lot of different areas of life,

not just financially, but you know, he'll tell you financially

speaking that normal is broke because about 80% of all

families live paycheck to paycheck.

So that's the norm. The norm is to do that.

One of the other things that he said, I remember, and I don't

know if he doesn't in the newest videos, but he he goes on kind

of this, I'll say the word rant. It's not a rant, but he goes on

this topic and he's like, so you know what's happening on this

reality show. You know what's happening on

this TV show. You know what's happening here

and here and here. And he's like, you're telling me

you don't know what's happening on your own budget, throw a

brick through your TV and get your life right.

And so I think that's absolutely what you're right and that's

what you're talking about. Just, you know, a moment ago is

like, if I can't get my heart right because of my phone or

because of this thing or that thing or man, throw a brick

through that thing, throw it in the ocean, whatever you have to

do. But let's let's start setting

right priorities. That actually makes sense both

for the health of me personally, the health of my family, the

health of my finances, whatever that looks like, you know, and I

and I think those are good things to do, but they're hot.

They're very difficult things to do.

They are, I mean, the first time, gosh it in that

illustration you're giving about the phone and going to a dumb

phone basically instead of a smartphone.

I have there have been so many times in my life where I'm like,

is that what I need to do because of sloth or any number

of other sins that come from having this stupid device on my

person at all times? And it's just like, man, that

is, that is, those are hard questions that I've personally

thought about. And like, it's so it's OK to

feel uncomfortable. In fact, in my, in my

uncomfortableness, what I'm dealing with is I'm letting the

Lord deal with the sin inside my heart, you know, And so man,

let's and, and you don't necessarily have to tell the

whole world, but let's start having those conversations with

the Lord. Let's start being a little kind

of introspective here about am I living for Christ?

Am I, am I living into the gift that He's given me, not because

I have to earn it, but because He's already done it?

And so like, am I showing gratitude through now the way

I'm living? Well, gosh, those are questions

that I think all of us individually need to ask

ourselves. And The thing is, nobody else

can answer it for you. That's between you and the Lord.

But let's, let's do that hard heart work.

And I think it reaps benefits that we do not even understand.

I'll say one more thing really quickly.

I am fully convinced there is blessing upon blessing upon

blessing that the Lord wants to put into our lives, wants to

give us, and He's just not going to do that until He knows that

we're ready to receive that gift.

I am convinced that that is true.

So if I can look back on decisions I've made in my life

in a lot of different areas, whether that's finances or

relationships, I can actually look back and I can see points

where I'm like, you know what I bet God wanted to do in that

moment, but I wouldn't receive it.

I wasn't ready for it. And I see it come back years

later when I'm making better decisions and all of a sudden,

like these blessings just come in my life and I'm like, man, I

feel so fulfilled. And there's so much, you know,

so much good happening. I bet I could have had that a

decade ago, but God knew I wasn't ready for it.

And so like, let's prepare our hearts.

Let's prepare our lives and our decision making so that the

infinite God of the universe who has control of every good thing

will will do those things. And and we don't, we don't act

right so that God will bless us. We are blessed by the gospel and

therefore we act right, you know, And so I think all those

things are at play here. And I'm just, you know, anybody

who knows me, I am not a prosperity gospel person.

I would hit back against that so hard and twice on Sunday.

But I still believe that God wants to bless us, especially

when we're ready to receive it. Yeah, no, absolutely.

And that's the, that's the fitness tie in, honestly, not

not just, not just physically, but it's the.

Oh, I like that. Am I fit to receive?

Fit to receive or the the parable of the of the workers

right of the of the talents where where one is left with

five and he turns it into five more and one is left with two

and he turns it into two more and one is left with one.

It stays one and and he in pride brings that back to his owner

and says, look here, here is what is yours.

What did you what did you do with that?

You weren't giving back what I already gave you.

You're not ready for more. You're not, you're not fit for

more. Like even as it relates to

money, it, it feels like at times more money would solve a

lot of our problem. I know what people have people

have debt or or bills or are paying off things.

And it feels like, oh, if I just had, I just had more money, I

would be better with it. Well, can we take a hard look in

the mirror and said, no, the reason, the reason we don't have

money because we're not good with it, like we're not handle

it faithfully or responsibly. That's that's why we need, but

it doesn't make sense to just have more of it.

And if you had more of it, you'd end up in exactly the same spot

that you are and very kind of narrow, assuming there's not

like great strife or unforeseen financial hell or, or things and

that. But like by and large, we do

some of these things to ourselves.

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, it's

been said before, but we, and I think you said it maybe even on

this podcast that we currently as we sit in this moment are the

product of every decision we've ever made.

So who I am right now financially or emotionally or

whatever, I am the exact perfect product of all of the decisions

I've ever made. And I could not be different

sitting here right now because those decisions, those choices

have led me to this moment right now.

And so like, the same thing is true with finances.

And again, I don't mean to sound harsh, but I have lived with

being an idiot who's broke out of his mind not knowing how I'm

going to buy groceries for my family.

And if I was being honest with myself in that moment, which I

wasn't able to do, every single hardship I was facing that

moment and all the uncertainty was just the product of every

bad decision I'd made leading up to that moment.

So yeah, I've also heard it said, and I think it's true,

that more money doesn't make you different, it just bolsters what

you already are. So if I'm already a selfish

person, more money, it's just going to make me more selfish.

I'm just going to buy more. More shoes.

Yeah, I. Mean now I need an entire closet

for them going. To have to renovate a closet for

all my shoes that I'm going to buy.

Renovate a closet and it needs to be lit up and it needs to be

really fancy and all this, right, Yeah.

So I mean. Isn't that I have a throne?

I'm sorry. You smoked really well

yesterday. It was.

It was good. Well, the oh gosh, the throne

that came out of nowhere. Really, that was in the moment.

Yeah. That was, I thought there was a

really logical progression of your of your hotel.

Story, well, the, the hotel story, like there is a

progression to it, but like talking about your toilet as a

throne, that was just me being a weirdo and actually just really.

And, and here's the thing, sometimes I am wildly selfish.

And I'm selfish even how in how I speak because I said those

things to entertain myself. Like, you know, what would be

really funny to me if I said it right now is talking about this

renovation toilet thing as a throne, because I find that

really kind of humorous. And so I said it because I think

it would make me laugh. There's no like pent up

subliminal frustration like do you do you need to replace the

toilet at your at your current rental?

Like do you need to go home and put a better throne in the

bathroom? I mean, I, I don't know, do I

maybe? I don't know.

I don't. I don't spend much time there

though. Like I don't, you know, I'm,

I'm, you know, sorry, here we go.

I don't, I don't sit there and play games for 1/2 an hour.

Like I just that's not the place.

I just wasn't sure if that analogy was too close to home

for like, if that was this is my life, I need a better throne in

my Life, OK. We are off the rails again.

Time. We held it together for a good a

good portion. Of time there.

We did. We did.

I'm I'm proud of us. So proud the last final couple

of verses in Matthew 6 that you were in and we can jump to 2nd

Corinthians while we while we still have time.

But oh, I'm in Matthew 5 the the gouging your eye out stuff in

Matthew 5. That's Matthew 527 through 30

ish is is that passage for more study and reflection.

But the final verse that you examine in Matthew chapter 6

Matthew 6:24

verse 24, no one can serve 2 masters.

He will literally hate the one and love the other.

He will be devoted to the one, despise the other.

You cannot serve God and money. Obviously a very specific

example here in the in the money preaching.

I didn't even get into any of that.

Like there was not time. You didn't, but I think I think

it's pretty easily understood even.

And there are people that I, I believe God has, God has gifted,

God has given them a skill and ability to make money like, and

that could be like, he's giving you gifts and skills and, and

mental processes and strategies to, to have a job or, or have a

process or, or just find a way to make money.

That isn't readily apparent to people like I, I think that is a

gift from God. So in those ways, though, I, I,

I feel like that that portion of people that have been given an

abundance or found a way, made a way to earn an abundance of

money. But what's your why, what, what,

what's your, why is, is it, it, is it a heart of generosity?

Is it, is it a heart of a heart of selfishness?

Is it for the pursuit of money? Or is it is it the pursuit to

glorify God in that, in the in the way that that we would be

honoring things like I think that's I think that's the

caution here because you could you could replace money in this

verse with just about anything, right?

Like you cannot serve God in shoes.

You cannot, sorry. I feel attacked.

You cannot, cannot serve God in guitars.

I got a lot of guitars like it's insert temptation here.

You, you can't serve God and TikTok like whatever it might

be, it's, it's more about, yes, the divided nature of our heart,

what we're paying attention to and then letting in with our

eyes. That's that's the caution here.

Absolutely. And I think, gosh, the not being

able to serve God and money, I think we always want a way

around that. I think we're.

Justify the necessity of the. Money, we're always looking for

a loophole when that verse comes up.

And I say that because I have met people who are actively

seeking the loophole of that verse like, well, you know, if I

just do this and that's where, that's where I think the tithe,

the 10% sometimes that is it's really, it can be really

negative because let's say I'm making a six, I don't know, a

high 6 figure salary. Well, guess what?

If I give God, my local church, whatever 10% of my very high 6

figure salary, am I even going to notice?

I'm. Not it's, you know what, I could

be giving more than 80% of the rest of the congregation and I'm

not even going to notice, therefore the position of my

heart in doing that. It's not any better.

It's not any better. You know, you look at the

widow's mite. We talked about this in my life

group last night actually. We did too.

Yeah, good. So like, yeah, the widow's mite

thing. Just very quickly, you've got

all these rich people giving out of their wealth and you've got

this this poor, destitute widow and she gives out of out of

being poor. And Jesus clearly makes the

point and it's obvious she's given more than any of them.

And so I mean, like, that's where like not you cannot serve

God and money. It's very real.

It's very real. And that's why we can't do a

base percentage. We can't do any of that kind of

stuff because it's always about heart posture and and doing

doing whatever we can cheerfully and joyfully for Kingdom work,

not for us. Because that's the other side of

this. You don't need to make an

abundance of money to have the attitude of serving money.

You, you can have a minimum wage job and your heart can still be

in the place of, of serving money.

Like that's, that's the thing that I'm chasing.

And that's, and that's why the even even when I don't have a

lot of it, it's still, it's still the thing that's defining

or, or directing your life, right.

I have heard it said before, and I think it's true that in fact,

people who tend to have less money, they're worshipping it,

they're. Much more focused on it.

They're much. More focused on it.

But that's but that's why I think this passage and and we're

not we're not going to deep dive into it will let you do some

personal study on it, but like you cannot serve God and money.

The very next verse, therefore, therefore I tell you Matthew,

Matthew 625 Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about

your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about

your body. What you will put on is not life

more than food in the body, more than clothing.

Like that's it's spoken in a way to the desperate, to the

worried, to to the the widow's mites.

And they're kind of the, the ones with little.

Are you, are you so worried about the little that you have

or the little that you or the much that you don't have?

I guess that that now it is the fixation of your art that you

are serving money. You're seeing that as the answer

rather than what the Father has already blessed you with,

already provided you with. And again, this isn't coming

from, I don't have a lot of money.

Like, like we're provided for it.

We live comfortable lives. I I feel like that I feel like

contented this in our don't have a crazy abundance could

certainly have less, but with with within that where's our

like it does that fuel my I I I don't have a lot, but I want

more or I I don't have a lot and and how can I give out of what

I'm given what I've been given? Despite all the jokes and

partial reality of the the shoe conversation that we've been

having about me, despite all that, God has done something

pretty remarkable in in mine and my family's life.

You know, we have come to the place where again, we have a

roof over our head, everybody's clothes.

We don't go without meals. And you can even ask my kids

like when we come to like Christmas or birthdays and

stuff, the number of times that they will say, you know what, I

don't, I don't really need anything or or rather like,

there's not anything really that I want.

And so, but hey, well, for my daughter who's in college right

now, there's not anything I really want.

But hey, here's what I need. And that's been, I, I, I've seen

God move in and through our family in that way to reorient

our hearts. And we're not perfect at it.

That's not what I'm saying. But I have seen God be

incredibly faithful to take away some of those unnecessary

desires. And Pastor Paul Lang told me

that I don't know how many years ago, he because I, when I first

became a Christian, I was like, yeah, but I like this and I like

this and I like this. And I don't think I'm going to

stop liking those things. And he's like, don't worry, you

stay faithful in your relationship with God.

He will change your desires. And Paul Lang was absolutely

right. God has changed my family's

desires so that I'm not unnecessarily desiring more and

more and more. And again, that wasn't me

willing myself into being this kind of like super Zen person.

That was me being faithful to God in that relationship and

then him changing my heart. Yes, that's how that works.

I'll, I'll add on to that. I shared with our life group

last night kind of this when, when we first moved to DeWitt,

like we were still, I was working part time.

Emily was working full time with her masters.

We had three young kids, twins on the way.

I, I was, I was working on my masters.

Like we were crazy. We had, we had a lot of stuff

flying around, hospital bills and student student loan things

and paying for school and I was not working, I was not making a

full time salary and all these things.

And I just remember, I remember so vividly, we, we prayed

earnestly to not worry about money like that.

That was just the simple prayer. And you know what didn't happen?

The the bills did not stop coming.

I don't say like, like the God didn't just like magically wipe

away the things that we were responsible for to, to pay for.

He also did not just like back a pad of cash into our driveway.

That also didn't happen. But my heart and my focus in the

things of money and in what I felt like were these, these

debts and weights hanging over us, my concern for them fell

away. But God, God did relieve the

worry of the fixation. Are we going to, are we going to

have enough? We're going to be able to manage

this. We're going to be able to handle

this and pay this down or whatever else like that that

fell away. He, he did not like immediately

remove or or even give more money.

He did not remove the obligations and he did not give

more money. But what he did, he changed.

He changed my heart. He changed my focus.

He changed my trust that what we would get would be enough.

So yeah. That's amazing.

No, thank you for sharing. I did not know that about about

you guys, this kind of story and when you first arrived.

I think that's that's amazing. Praise the Lord for that because

that's that's going to set you up for the rest of your life.

And honestly, to this day, that's.

And I'm not saying. I'm not saying don't make a

plan. I'm not I'm not saying don't

budget your money or pay attention to your money or care

or concern for it. But again, what's your what's

your heart in that? What's the why in that is?

Is it is it because you're so worried about it that you have

to have a plan? Or is it to honor God Well with

those things? And I'm not, I'm not not worried

about money because I'm careless with money.

It's it's because I, I try to act in a, in a posture of

generosity. There will be some things that

seem kind of careless. Most of them are in a heart of

generosity that doesn't, doesn't make sense.

It seems careless, but it's, it's mostly out of that because

it's, as Kristen says, each week, it's all his anyway.

It's, it's, it's been a gift from him.

So why making it a gift for others is, is a pretty easy

posture to engage in. And that brings us to just this

final. I don't, I don't know how much

more we'll have on this. I think it's just it's all there

in in the text. 2nd Corinthians 9.

I'm going to read 6 through 9. The point is this.

Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows

bountifully will also reap bountifully.

Each one must give, as he says has decided to give in his

heart. God loves a cheerful giver, and

God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that you

having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may

abound in every good work. For as it is written, He has

distributed freely, He has given to the poor.

His righteousness endures forever.

It's about the heart, God. God wants your heart.

He's given all for all, and He's given to the poor.

His righteousness is what endures forever.

Those are the things, those are the things that we should we

should focus on, we should rest in.

Those are the things that we should sow bountifully in to, to

then therefore reap bountifully in the harvest is plenty, but

the workers are few. Like can we, can we put the work

in to, to see the harvest to to do the, the harvest well?

But what have we sown? Have we sown well?

Have we sown plentifully in order that God's God's Kingdom

reaps the harvest, and we're his workers in that?

So anything else? Amen.

God loves a cheerful giver. Yeah, no, that's great.

I, I have little to add to that at this moment.

And I think one of the things that you, I think you said it

twice in recently during this podcast is go and study.

Go and learn what this means. Jesus says that phrase.

Go and learn what this means. We love talking to you guys on

Sundays, on Wednesdays on this podcast.

We love talking to you guys. But man, like you know what you

get to do, Go and learn what this means.

And The thing is, God through his Spirit will work through his

word to enlighten your heart and, and well and to light you

up and to turn you into the person that you never even knew

you wanted to be. And again, that's why I'm

sitting here right now is because God turned me into the

person I never even knew I wanted to be.

And I'm so thankful for that. Yeah, because in that his we

love, we love doing this. We love offering more insight,

preaching and teaching on Sunday mornings.

But God's word is powerful enough on its own.

The Holy Spirit is powerful enough with the word to bring

you understanding, to bring even even without us.

I'm not saying we're not going anywhere.

We're here, we're we're here to talk and we're here for you to

ask questions and, and and be challenged with.

But like God's word in and of itself is that powerful to bring

you understanding. So.

Yeah. All right, thanks for tuning in

church. Appreciate you.

Stay warm this week in the terrible, terrible cold.

But God is good all the time. Have a blessed week.