LEFTOVERS - CHRISTMAS & NEW YEAR'S AMA

Happy Monday. We're back in at the ARC

Leftovers Podcast. I'm Pastor Matt.

Pastor Chris. And Kristen?

And Kristen, yay, 3 Musketeers back together again.

Last time I saw you guys was yesterday, yeah.

Well. It's been a while.

We're back for more. So yeah, we, oh, man, there's a

lot of stuff. Oh, holy night, movie night on

Friday, Christmas caroling on Sunday.

Had Sunday morning gathering as well.

Do you feel different? Let me ask you, like my weekends

are very different based on whether or not I'm preaching.

Do you, do you feel that or is Sunday or else Sunday's the same

for you? No, I, I, I think you're pretty

much spot on in that. So for example, I keep a pretty

hard and fast rule about Saturday nights about, you know,

leaving whatever I'm doing by 8:30.

But that rule is more hard and fast and, and unmovable when it

comes to preaching weekend. Whereas like this last Saturday

night, like OK, so I know going into Sunday, you know, we're

going to be looking at Daniel and some Revelation Y kind of

things in Bible study, but I'm already prepped for that.

And we've got a great group of people who love to just dive

deep and dig into it. And some of them are reading way

ahead of time so they can talk about that.

But you know, so I was out till I think the Bears game didn't

wrap up till like, I don't know, 10/15, 10:30. 10:30 Almost.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I stayed out and

watched that because, well, you know, it's an important game

against the Packers and that worked out for Bears fans.

So really did it really did. So yeah.

So on on non preaching weekends I'm I'm more likely to be a

little bit more relaxed with my Saturday evening time and when I

need to get home. Sure, but like coming.

So I'm more thinking of coming out.

Like, did Sundays feel different for you?

Like after the fact, because my interactions are usually

different based on whether or not I like.

And I think it's just the preacher problem really, that

there's just, I mean, people don't come up to me and talk to

me about your sermon, right? Like.

Maybe they should be bad. Like Chris was really on one

today. You might want to rein that guy

in. Right, but like they, they don't

usually come up to me and be like, I had like, and he said

this and I took that away and that and that just like like the

preacher usually receives those comments, right.

So I don't know, just for, and not that it's like good or bad

one way or the other, but for me, like Sunday morning when I

preach, Sunday lingers into the rest of the day like longer.

I feel like I guess church does. That's real.

Absolutely. More than when I'm not

preaching. So, well, because you got up on

stage and you said all of the things and, you know, no doubt

God's word does not return void. So it made its necessary impact

on people's minds and their hearts.

And so I mean, yeah, that's going to have some carry

forward. And and I think there's just a

different level of responsibility with that when

you come out of the sanctuary and you're having conversations

with people. So yeah, there's definitely more

to it. Yeah, so yesterday I was talking

a lot about gift giving in our series in Isaiah and the the

gift of Jesus that we have just to receive this time of year.

Today's episode is going to be we're just doing a little

holiday fun. We're just going to talk about

stuff today, some life, some funny stuff, some real stuff,

some theological stuff. I can say that word, but but

before we get there, as we enter into it, kind of segwaying from

the gift sermon from yesterday, you can catch that in the

podcast feed just before this on Isaiah 49.

But as we enter into it, thinking about what is the

favorite Christmas gift that you have ever received, like all the

way back to childhood. You, you guys have some more

adulthood than I do, but like what was what was the thing that

you had to have and that you got?

Kristen, you go first. Oh.

Yeah. All right.

No, I'm ready for that one. OK, All right, so I was a Barbie

kid, really. So one.

I wouldn't have guessed that I. Wouldn't have guessed that.

All the Barbies, it was an empire.

And so the year that I got the Barbie house, that was the

A-frame. Girls will know this.

It was an A-frame and it came in three pieces.

And it was the same year that Malibu Barbie came out and she

had the longest hair to date. And that same Christmas I got

the A-frame house and Malibu Barbie with the longest tear

ever. Wow.

Can I ask what grade that was do you know?

Third maybe? Still feels about the right time

I guess. I think I still have Ninja

Turtles and 3rd and was still. Rocking on that, she was like,

oh, this was way past grades, Yeah.

I was, I was hoping you were going to be like 7th grade.

So then I could I could just, you know, back she.

Was 23. It was a couple years ago.

Make fun of you. Now I would have to put it

together. That would be the the downside.

Yeah, No, my dad, it was one of those classic like watching dad

all morning, put the thing together and it had flower boxes

and furniture. I mean, they're all the things.

It took them all day. It was one of those fun like dad

memories. I'm sure for him too.

That was definitely the dollhouse was the the biggest I

feel like present given to this point in my in my child's like

whatever we've gotten meaningful good gifts, but that was the

most time consuming the like five years ago, 3 tier, 4 foot

tall, 4 foot wide dollhouse for the four girls that we have.

That was that was the most involved thing.

And of course it was Christmas Eve was assembling the thing for

sure. It didn't do it a day before

that. No, no.

Why would you? No, there was, There was 1

Christmas where Transformers, Transformers were a really big

thing. And so there was, it was the

first time they'd ever done it. You took multiple Transformers

and they combined to make one really big one.

And there is somebody in our church who still has that set,

and I am insanely jealous. Wow.

Like they have the original thing and I am just insanely

jealous of it. I wish I'd kept mine because

even today I'm like, if somebody gave that to me today, I'd be

pretty hyped. And you know, and I'm not, I

don't know. I so yeah, that between that or

look this one up, if you don't know what I'm talking about, My

pet monster. Yes, I got a my pet monster one

year and I held on to that thing for a very long time.

I loved my pet monster. They were so.

Ugly. Oh, he was ugly as sin.

But it was just a cool thing for about a year or two and I got a

my pet monster. He's about 3 foot tall, and he

came with little chains on his hands.

They even made, like, a movie. I remember renting the VHS tape

in Bettendorf because they made a movie about this.

And my pet monster was so cool. OK, show Matt the picture of my

pet monster. He is so ugly.

What? Yeah.

Yeah. It's an ugly stuffy basically.

And it's about 3 foot tall. And yeah, he was awesome.

Wow. 8086. Yeah, that makes sense.

That was, yeah. Five years old.

Yep, my pet monster. Awesome year, man, Awesome year.

This probably sounds bad for if my parents are listening, but I,

I don't have like an iconic gift that I, I, I have things still

from my childhood and if I got that for OK, the thing that

comes to mind, I have this, I have this plastic Millennium

Falcon that's about like it's like 3 feet big because I, I was

a Star Wars kid. Like every time, anytime I had

$7.00 in from whatever allowance, paper route money,

birthday, would it like we were going to target and buying an

action figure like I, I had and still do.

Actually, I have about 30 of these Star Wars action figures

that are like 2530 years old. But this Millennium Falcon and

remember, this is this is like pre this is when they only the

original trilogy is out and they're still going strong in

the 90s making these action figures before they they made

them while like episode 1-2 and three came out as well.

But this is this is before that. I'm I'm still like old school

original trilogy. I had I had like Tatooine Luke

in the tunic, but then I had like death star Luke in the

black leather and then I had like Hoth Luke in the in the

snow stuff and and all these things.

So I think I got this for Christmas, but it was, it was a

plastic Millennium Falcon and like half of the top came off

and all the figures could fit in this thing.

So like you could make this scene in this Millennium Falcon,

but it had the landing gear on it and it had the cockpit that

you could put Han and Chewie in and it had it had four buttons

on it. So it made like lights and

sounds. I still have, I should show this

to you guys because it's like it's, it's, it's in my basement

right now. My kids have been playing with

it. So getting that for Christmas,

like that was, I did get that for Christmas.

That was at my grandma's house somewhere, 9798, probably around

there. OK, that leads me to a different

idea. Just because I think the

generation of that, I grew up in 80s, we had, we just had so many

awesome cartoons and so many cool toys and stuff like that.

So you just said your kids were just downstairs playing with

that recently. Can you imagine any toys that

your kids have right now that their kids would play with?

Are there any that are going to last, like big prediction?

Are there any cool toys that 25 years from now they'll still be

cool or they'll be awesome throwbacks?

Or do you think anything like that exists today?

Are we still going to be talking about Bluey in 25 years?

Like what are we doing? I think that's possible because

there's still, we still have like wooden trains with like

Thomas the train and that's my kids have really only faced out

of that in the past couple years.

And that was something that I grew up with.

So like magnetiles, but I feel like that's not like necessarily

error specific. That's just something that

happened to come out in like that's just a fun learning toy

that I think could definitely still like Lincoln locks like I

feel like maybe are less prevalent now, but still, I

don't know. I feel like that's not

necessarily maybe a societal thing like Star Wars or or Bluey

could be. I don't.

I don't know if Bluey is still going to be popular 25 years

from now because, like, my kids weren't raised on Sesame Street.

Yeah. So there could be there could be

something else that captures their attention there.

But yeah, like Thomas, the train happened.

I wonder about Paw Patrol for. Maybe.

Longevity's sake cause like power, Power Rangers hung out

for for generations. Right, Pokémon's been around for

a. Couple generations Pokémon could

have staying power yeah yeah, I think because yeah, I think I

think there's a difference in toys, mate, like because the the

wooden train sort of thing like I feel like that could just be

timeless that that could continue on Magnetiles.

I guess character wise, yeah, I think I think I'd bank on Paw

Patrol or I could see Bluey, but they're kind of I don't know if

they're kind of done producing things.

They're talking about making a movie, but like the TV episodes

are kind of done for now. I just don't know how long

they're going to keep doing it because Power Rangers kept

producing stuff. Sesame Street even kept

producing stuff. And then?

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I think they're putting out

another movie soon. And they had iterations.

And that's been around for 35 years.

Right. Yeah, so.

I just wonder if anything currently has good staying power

like what we had because I mean, I, I look back and sure, my pet

monster didn't hold on for more than a couple years,

unfortunately. However, I just think like we

had the great benefit of having so many things that lasted for

so long, whether it's Ninja Turtles or even like Looney

Tunes. Looney Tunes was the thing when

my mom was a kid, still a thing when I was a kid.

It went for a really long time. And so I just wonder if anything

today has that kind of staying power.

There's also the throwback factor to like.

I could see Bluey being like throwback later like they bring

it back. Oh yeah, yeah.

Well, companies are smart. They'll they'll sell you your

childhood a second time. Absolutely, which is what has

happened with like He man and certain other things, like we'll

sell you your childhood now that you have money.

Sure. Or even Marvel.

I mean, what started as comic books now brought to like

brought to the screen, right. And just, I mean essentially

retread and read retold in a different format.

But yeah, yeah, what about something?

Was it, was there a gift that you never got that you were

convinced you had to have and you ultimately didn't?

I'll, I'll go 1st and give you guys a second because I don't

regret it at all. But I also never got it.

And maybe, maybe after you guys. Well, you wouldn't, you wouldn't

have been young enough. 10 year gap.

But digipets like the little the little.

Tamagotchis. Yeah, yeah, yes.

I never got one. I'm so sorry for that.

My parents, I had one I. Mean.

We were in. Were we in high school or

college? Oh, I think it was.

Early, right? That's what I'm saying.

Like yeah, I was age appropriate.

I would have bought it myself, you know.

I think I do remember like, you know, 8th, 8th grade, 9th grade

year people walking around the halls like, oh, like they're

making excuse to go to the bathroom because they're a

little digital pet needs to be fed right now.

Yeah, No, I, I, I remember that. I think that was probably like

late middle school. OK, I never got one.

I know we had one. And I know, I know there was a

time that I wanted one of my parents.

And I feel like my parents was like, no, that's stupid.

And that's why I like looking back on it now, like, yeah,

you're right. That was dumb.

I didn't need that. Well, and I would not buy one

for my kids. It's a.

Digital. I almost bought one a couple

years ago. Did you?

Yeah. Based on their track record that

that digital pet is going to die, like there's no, that's

like, no, no. No.

Do you think it would just be more tears in your house?

Yeah, I do. I.

Do I think we're just setting up for more pain?

They just waterfall. All of them die one after

another. Yeah.

OK, well, I'm sorry about that. The one thing I wanted, you guys

wouldn't want this. I never got an American Girl

doll. Oh.

Yeah, You know, you got the catalog and you would flip

through it. And I wanted because I'm

Kristen. I wanted Kirsten.

Oh. Yeah.

You're way too entertained by that.

Oh my. God, I wanted Kirsten.

Come on. I heard a funny thing.

Maybe it's I think it's made its way through social media.

Apparently American Girl dolls, they made their first, their

first doll. Who?

Who's hearing impaired, who's deaf?

And then the joke. And then the joke is, wait, the

other ones can hear you. Yes, there we go.

It took us about 11 minutes, but we got there all right.

All right, time to hit the reset button 11 minutes in.

They can hear you. I can't believe it.

This poor one can't, but the other ones can.

I love it. That so I I get that and that

this was this was the year of the American girl doll for all

for all. All four of our girls have have

a doll now, but they are that came with the purging of all

other dolls. They have Barbies, but like the

sort of like baby doll cradle ones.

All those dolls are gone from our house.

Now they have their American Girl doll and that's it.

Yep. Quality over quantity, yeah.

Yep. And there's a difference, just

so you know. Oh, yeah.

And actually, there's a difference between the American

do American Girl dolls and the classics too.

Really. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a there's a quality

difference and a price difference.

Actually, you can, yeah. Oh, you don't have to worry.

About any of that. No, well, not until if if I have

to worry about that, but oh gosh, you have.

To worry about that for Izzy we have some maybe some other

questions we're. Talking about it's true, 21

would be a strange age to be getting.

Into relapse and the man. No, I actually, you, you asked

that question and maybe it's poor memory, but actually I, I

cannot recall anything where I was just so enamored by it and

it didn't happen. Well, because so for example,

well, in some ways, in some ways, like, so for example, I

mean, like my, my households that I grew up in, divorced

parents, like we always had video game systems like that was

always a premium for us. And, you know, growing up in the

80s and 90s and stuff like, man, that was kind of everything to

the guys I grew up around. Like, Oh no, do you have the

PlayStation? Do you have the Nintendo this or

the Sega that? And we always had those things

around. And so, yeah, I would say that.

So it wasn't hard to please you like that.

No, no, I don't think so. I mean, like the only thing

that's difficult about that is there's one TV and four of us,

like now we're taking turns and we're fighting over, no, you've

been on for 31 minutes, not 30. You have to end your game right

now. And then my older brothers are

super angry with me because like, dude, you can't just save

any time on a Sega or an intent. Like, no man, there's a specific

like you have to get X far, otherwise you just lost the last

half hour of your life and you have to redo it all.

So that was the only drama, but I don't recall ever.

Yeah, very fortunate. Blessed.

Hashtag blessed. Free.

Blessed. I think that just means we're

brats, man. I was like, I had a Barbie

empire. I was like, yeah, but I've never

gotten there. It could go doll.

I'm sure there was some, like specific Nintendo games that I

always really wanted, but that was also back in the day where

you had Blockbuster, so you could just go rent it, Yeah.

I was my Yeah. We had a great weekend with our

kids. And I think my kids are

hilarious, but Clara especially, I think I told you guys this

already at the top of her list this year was a hula hoop.

Like, there's that, There's that chipmunk song that is Alvin.

Just. I just wanna like, that was

literally my life. That's all Clara wanted in the

world was a hula hoop. It's like she should have been

born in 19. 50 it was a good Hula hoops have changed they oh.

Well, circle how does? It change well what Chris is

like, what is this square hula hoop you got for your child?

Got her a Pentagon, OK. You're going to have to talk me

through this. This makes no sense.

I think it's the internet's fault because we have to be able

to order things that you can ship.

No one wants to ship a hula hoop.

So it comes in pieces. It's it's a six, it's a six

piece thing, which actually means it's adjustable sizes.

You can make it. There's there's five sections

that snap together. Oh, well, there's six sections,

but you can make it 5 or 6 and make it different size.

It's like it's thick. It's like high quality plastic

and it just snaps together. It sounds like you want a hula

hoop. I mean, I was impressed by the

construction of this. Yeah, it was.

I don't know. Can you go to Walmart and still

get a hula hoop for a dollar? I bet you probably can.

But then this was like a $12.00 hula hoop.

But I don't know. I mean, I was, I was pretty

impressed. I thought it.

I thought it was the coolest hula hoop I've ever seen.

Wow. That's saying a lot.

That's a cool seen. A lot of hula hoops.

Yeah, Yeah, that's what we're doing.

I love it. All right, right, well, enough

of your shenanigans. Oh yeah, we're done, right?

Yeah, let's read it in. We're done with the shenanigans.

I think we're. Done, Yeah.

All right, so for theology man. Oh gosh, you want?

To get us started, we've got a question How does biblical Canon

work? Biblical Canon.

OK, well. That's when they take a Bible

and they load it into. Into a Canon.

And they fire it at your enemies.

Well, no, that actually that's a, that's a great question

because I think there's a lot of, there's a there, there's so

many extra biblical writings that happened in and around at

the time that the Bible was written.

And so there's plenty to be said about like, well, why did you

leave that one out and put this one in?

One of the things that's really interesting if you look at

Lutheranism in particular, is that Martin Luther really

struggled with the book of James, for example.

So the book of James at one point in Martin Luther's life, I

don't think this is where he necessarily ended, but at one

point, Martin Luther's life, he looks at the book of James and,

and he calls it the book of Straw.

Like he had, he had the greatest like ways to just make fun of

stuff without being really mean about it.

But he called it a book of straw in particular because, like, it

doesn't actually talk about Jesus explicitly as Lord and

Christ over all of creation and over individual people's lives.

And so he saw the book of James is not super helpful for

salvation, although helpful for like applicable daily living.

And so Martin Luther at one point would have tried to make

the argument James does not belong in the canonized Bible

because it doesn't point you to Christ as Lord and Savior

explicitly. And it's also, I mean, there's a

lot, there's a lot of works stuff in there too, which were

like his Protestant attitude to the Catholic Church and and some

of the deficiencies that he was seeing there or wanting to move

away from a workspace theology. Like that's a lot of that is in

James, right? Show me, show me a faith without

works and I'll show you my faith by my works, right.

So that makes sense that he would tear that down while at

the same time though, we we have like Christian living

application out of it's kind of what we were talking about

yesterday. Like you have this gift now.

What do you do with it? Right.

And and that's to me, that's the book of James that like, OK, now

you live it out in this way. So I get that.

But I think there's I think there's facets to the faith walk

there that that is important to have James in.

So Luther though that that makes sense, at least where he was

coming from. Yeah, well, if you again, just

for being concise and giving you a resource got questions is

always a good it's 99% of the time a really great website to

just ask a question and find out and get a pretty concise answer.

They'll, they'll state, and I think that's accurate, that the

first canonized Old Testament, New Testament in one kind of

single document was done around 170 AD.

And but here's here's how the council's around that time and

before that time figured this out.

And this is what gotquestions.org says.

And again, I think it's, it's pretty accurate.

The Council's followed something similar to the following

principles did to determine whether a New Testament book was

truly inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an

apostle? Is the book being accepted by

the body of Christ at large? So the larger church, the larger

believing church has to all recognize this one thing.

Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox

teaching? Did the book bear evidence of

high moral and spiritual values that would reflect the work of

the Holy Spirit? Now, we, this mentions the New

Testament, but you have to recognize that the Old Testament

was already in place by 170 AD. In fact, it's in place way

earlier than that. And so, yeah, I, I, I don't

think it was. I'm sure it was a process for

those original councils to say, hey, this is in, this is out and

there's still some disagreement about with that today.

So the, the Catholic Bible, for example, it's got some stuff

that a Protestant Bible wouldn't have in it that Protestantism

says. Now this is not inspired by the

Holy Spirit. It might be good teaching, but

it's not inspired by the Holy Spirit, doesn't point you

directly to Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

And so there's some things like that, but I would say that, you

know, the canonized version that exists today for Protestants,

like it's everything that you would need for salvation.

So that's the other question I think you have to answer within

this is, is there enough here to tell me about the character of

God that I might believe and understand Now?

Is it a science book is a biology book?

Nope. It was never meant to be those

things. But is it?

Is it a book that points me to my Lord and Savior with enough

information and enough background that can get me to

that point of belief? Absolutely.

And that loops back to Luther's objection then a little bit to

James because it again take take James in a vacuum by itself,

right? You, you might be hard pressed

to find like Gospel Jesus in that book, right without some

other information, right. So not that we could really take

any part. Well, yeah, there are some parts

that we could just take that part of the Bible and still get

to that same conclusion. But that's that's part of the

process that you're getting at right Like would would this

contain what is necessary for salvation and therefore be

included in the Canon, right. That's part of Luther's

objection to James. Maybe couldn't take that one and

get to that. But then yeah, we have such

small things of like Jude, apparently there's there's

enough in there to get what's that 28 verses I think like to

it's. Quick.

It's quick. Yeah, to include that in, but to

your greater point, the, the Old Testament, I mean, even at the

time of Jesus, that was that Canon established, right?

That that's already Jewish canonical.

When, when they reference the law or the scriptures or the

prophets or whatever, like that's there was one thing that

they were well, a culmination of things that they were referring

to, but they they had agreement on that Canon.

What's interesting to me and and what tells me that they did

follow some of these, some of these precepts and and systems.

We have books excluded from from the Protestant Bible.

Like there there are additions to Esther.

There's there's more written about the Ester story that isn't

included. It was kind of an addendum or

the authorship was a little off or different.

Same thing with Daniel. Like there's just kind of, we

have more parts of that that are just a different voice or a

different. And that's the bigger part to

me. Like if, if you were to go

through and just some examples of the book of Tobit, first and

2nd Maccabees, there's, there's even a Wisdom of Solomon book.

Like we, we have Song of Solomon and, and other parts of the Old

Testament that we know were written by Solomon.

We have a book literally called Wisdom of Solomon.

And there's actually authorship concerns because it sounds so

different than the other verified writings of Solomon.

So, so there there is. And if you read some of these

other other books and compared them really I think to like the

voice, the consistency, the the kind of divine and divinely

inspired voice of God that we find in these other books, You

could, you could tell, I think, I think you could tell even even

like the layperson, casual Christian, like you could put

those side by side and be like, this is different that the

voice, the tone, the authorship of this coming from different

worlds here. Absolutely.

Well, and The thing is, I wanted to pick up on something you were

talking about that I think it's really, really good.

You mentioned could this stand alone and still help me find

salvation or or lead me straight to it?

So if I had nothing else except for the book of Romans, let's

say I had none of the rest of the Bible.

Now there would be some things that are confusing because he's

referencing Old Testament Scripture and some other things.

But like I would absolutely know Christ as Lord and Savior if I

only had Romans. I could say the same thing about

the four gospels. You could probably actually you

could even say the same thing about Hebrews or some like a

book like that. Most of the most of Paul's

letters to the church, probably. Yeah.

And so I think like that's that's got to be part of the,

you know, the the smell test too.

Like, man, does this point me to Jesus in such a way that if I

had no other document, this would still get me there.

Absolutely. And so I'm sure I have little

doubt that that's part of the reason why some books made it

in, some did not. And that just makes good sense.

Yeah, yeah. And then there's also the

veracity of a part of part of that is that the authors being

close in proximity or teaching or mentorship to Jesus.

And I think maybe James gets a little bit of a pass because

that is that is the brother of Jesus.

But at the same time, like known him his whole life, literally

his whole life wound up like also was included in the

disciples was was was a follower.

So you you'd think there'd be some he would understand if

anyone understood right? Like he'd, he'd been witnessing

and seeing these things and was brought to a conclusion that

divinely led to the conclusion that also OK, these this

application of how this is lived, this also matters like

these these things are also Christian living in a, in a

conclusion from this gospel salvation, right.

Well, and for James in particular, one of the reasons

why I think Luther has to bend the knee to it is because you

have to understand who he's writing to.

So James is addressing people who he clearly knows, believes,

understands that they are in fact Christ believing followers.

And so now he's just getting to the, OK, like you said, what do

you do do with this now? And so in that way, not every

single letter written by an apostle or disciple has to

remind you, you know, of, of like, hey, do this in order to

believe, repent, confess, you know, all these kinds of things.

You don't necessarily have to have that because you have to

understand the context in which it was written in who it was

written to and why it was written and all that kind of

stuff. And so James, you know, still an

incredibly helpful book, an incredibly helpful writing.

But you know, I, I suppose it's like some, some sermons, right?

Not every sermon is going to be the Billy Graham fall on your

knees like today's. I mean, I guess in some way they

should all be a little bit of that.

But some of them are just more like, Hey, this is, this is what

the Bible's talking about in this space.

And so how do we apply that directly to our lives so that

the word is is helpful and useful?

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the other I,

I am not well versed with every single word of the Apocrypha

and, and these books that are excluded, but I, I am pretty

convinced not, it's not like it's heretical.

It's not like all of it is like completely wrong and sinful.

It's just not divinely inspired, right?

It's just not like God's voice. It's it's like even if Wisdom of

Solomon, it could be written by Solomon and it could be

conclusions and experience that he has from his life, but it's

not like the words that God gave him to say, right?

So like it could be right and true and maybe even wise, but

it's just not God's word. It's Solomon's words.

Does that make sense? Is it Thus says thus says the

Lord right, or thus? Says Solomon.

Yeah. Yeah.

If it's not thus says the Lord, then yeah, we probably don't

have to have it in Canon. Yeah, You know, and I'm sure

that was I I have no doubt that that was part of the the process

of saying, yeah, well, here's a history book.

Here's this take, here's this point of view, but it doesn't

lead us directly to Christ. And it's not thus says the Lord.

So therefore I'll read it, but we're not put in the Bible.

Yeah, and it's I mean, part of part of that concise lens comes

down to all scriptures God breathed useful for teaching, of

booking, training, correcting, building up in righteousness,

right? Like that's so some of these

books that are excluded maybe, but they're not that in in in

their entirety, right? So then then excluded from the

Canon of scripture. And all that to say too, like,

so take the book of Mark, for example, every, every like

English Bible on the planet, almost all of them, you're going

to have this extra little section at the end of the book

of Mark where it's going to point out and it there should be

some kind of context that says, OK, the earliest documents we

have, this text isn't found in there.

OK, but then it's going to add it back into the Bible anyway.

Well, why would they add it back in if our earliest manuscripts

don't have it? Well, because it is true and

it's consistent with the other gospel writers.

Now, did Mark, who is writing down Peter's story, did he, did

he say those specific things? We don't actually know for sure,

but it's still in your Bible because we know it's consistent

and it's true. Even if it was a slightly and it

would have been slightly later edition, it's still is

perfectly. Yeah, it lines up perfectly with

the other gospel writers. So, but I think you, you look at

that and you say, OK, well, I'll take that for what it is.

And, and there's no saying that the earliest documents that

we've found, which date to like 1st century and 2nd century,

there's no saying we just haven't found a complete,

complete version of Mark's gospel.

Maybe it was what he wrote, but we just haven't found that

particular document yet. Sure.

So yeah. All right, I think we covered

it. If you have more questions about

biblical Canon, come talk to us. Yeah.

I think this next question, it kind of adds to that though in

that like how do we know the Bible is reliable?

And I think you've kind of touched a little on that already

in that decision making. Well, I mean, you know, one of

the one of the most famous examples of, you know, original

biblical narrative and writing is the Dead Sea Scrolls.

That was a huge archaeological find that really solidified and

validated our modern day Bibles. And the other thing is, you

know, it's so funny. So you might have a handful or

less of writings about this Caesar or this person, and we

take those as absolute truth. Yet we have, I think it's a

little over 5000 documents dating back to the first and 2nd

century about Jesus and about the apostles and their writing

and all this kind of stuff. And yet we still look at that

and go, yeah, but Are you sure? And that is such a high level of

hypocrisy that I think it it just, it bends itself to allow

for these other historical figures to be viable and true.

But then you have over 5000 documents that all confirm the

Bible's original writing. And you're like, yeah, but.

And it's just super hypocritical.

And I don't, I don't buy that for a second.

Yeah. And the other part of it, I

mean, it's especially in the Old Testament.

There's, there's events and, and historical accounts that are

verified by other by other sources that that are biblically

aged. And then any modern day

archaeology really not that we've found and verified every

single thing that has happened in the Bible.

But what we have nothing has ever been found to conflict with

the biblical account of that city, that area, that mountain,

that, that whatever it whatever it might be like it's we've

we've verified the things that have happened in the Bible in in

these archaeological sites. So it just there hasn't that

there's no other book or account or historic even even from just

like a practical real life, set the spirituality aside, even

just like as a historical account of the world.

There's nothing else like they're like the Bible.

So it would it would hold to logic and reason that also the

other things along the way with it, with the archaeological

finds, OK. They were also being truthful

about these events of these people and and these things that

happened throughout the history of the world.

Right. Yeah, well, and a couple

examples. So one of my favorite ones is

the Walls of Jericho. So archaeologists have found

that those walls that were talked about in the book of

Joshua, they are perfectly collapsed on themselves.

They aren't broken. They aren't scattered.

It is perfectly fallen on itself exactly the way the Bible

describes. Another fun one is Noah.

I mean, so like almost every world religion, all the ones

that have been around for a while, they all have some type

of narrative about a worldwide flood that is consistent across

a lot of different religions. Now what's also interesting

about Noah and the ark is, and I can't remember the name of the

mountain. Maybe you guys can look it up,

but there is a perfect imprint of where we believe the ark

landed and it fits the biblical narrative to the exact foot of

the length and, you know, breath whatever of Noah's ark.

And there's just this really nice perfect imprint on the side

of a mountain. And you're like, really?

Is that coincidence? Because the Bible says that the

ark is this big in this imprint, which looks like a boat imprint

is the exact same size. And how are you really going to

argue that? I mean, and then the third thing

that you might do is you cannot intelligently argue that this

guy named Jesus didn't live. You cannot make that argument.

Even secular scholars will say, yes, there was definitely a guy,

Jesus and Nazareth. And you can also, I think

unequivocally with good evidence, argue that Pontius

Pilate, he died under Pontius Pilate.

There's even graffiti and I think maybe we've shown in

church once a little while back, there's graffiti of so and so

worships his God and it's Jesus on a cross.

So this, whoever this young man is who is a Christian at the

time, he's being made fun of for his faith.

And there's this kind of graffiti inscription about this

kid worshiping his God, 1st century stuff.

And so and then you go and you look at Jesus.

Did Jesus, who we know for a fact lived and died under

Pontius Pilate, did he believe the biblical accounts?

He supported them 100% all the way down to Jonah, all the way

down to Jonah, which is a ridiculous, crazy story that,

you know, modern day thinkers probably wouldn't believe.

This guy was really swallowed by a fish for three days.

Really. No, Jesus took that story

incredibly literally and and he applied it directly.

And so I think you Add all that stuff and there's a million

other things you could talk about, but for the sake of

brevity today, just those couple things.

I think that the biblical accounts there is every good

logical reason, even from a secular point of view to say

these are valid, even if I don't believe the results of Jesus

being raised from the dead now as the Son of God.

These things you cannot argue against unless you just want to

throw all this evidence, which is not fair.

Right. Yeah, Mount Ararat.

Thank you. Not it's not referenced in the

Bible. Like there isn't an actual

specific landing place for for that name in the Bible.

But that's to your point where that was thought to be.

That's what it's called. Wasn't called that till about

the Middle Ages, but that's always been a fascinating thing

to like the ark was massive. Where did it go?

Like what even even if it was wood, I guess, and I'm not an

expert on the deterioration of wood.

Maybe it was burned. I don't know.

Maybe God just like poof, took the thing away.

I, I don't know, he, he could have.

But it's amazing to me that we haven't found any physical

remnants of the ark. That's always just like nothing

that has to mean anything or anything.

But I just, it was so big. Yeah, I actually think it makes

good logical sense that over a long enough time frame, so the

family gets off the ark and they're kind of spreading out

again. Well, at some point, the

resources of that physical thing become really, really important,

and so why not dismantle it and start using it for other things?

And that makes perfect sense. But it clearly sat there long

enough to make an impression on a very soft ground because

again, with a worldwide flood, everything is just saturated.

Well, this very ridiculously heavy boat, it sits there long

enough before they start dismantling it or using it for

whatever they used it for. And it made its impression.

And actually, we just came out of the Moses series.

And one of the fun things that I learned in creating that study

guide was the the top of the mountain that was burnt.

It is solidified burnt and it's only at the very top.

How does that happen? Oh, I can tell you how that

happens. If you read the biblical account

of God's fire coming down on the top of the mountain, that's

exactly how that happens, because it was such a heat for

such a short amount of time, but it crystallized the top of the

mountain and it's still there today.

It's blackened. And that can only happen with

intense heat and fire. Right.

So, and as crazy as it sounds, it actually makes the most

logical sense that it would have been a, a divine intervention of

sorts that made that that's, that's actually the most

practical way to explain it, right?

Yeah, sometimes we just need to doubt our doubts and start

taking the Bible literally. Because if we do that and then

we look at what modern day archaeologists see, all of a

sudden, like things start to make a lot of sense.

And without the biblical account, these things make no

sense whatsoever. Yeah, so.

You brought up doubt. So we're gonna, we're gonna have

all these facts and we're gonna have what we know is true and we

can be logical, but is it OK to doubt?

Who? I mean, we're gonna do it, but

the question is, is, is it OK to have those doubts despite all

the facts? OK.

Is it, is it OK? Sure.

Yes, in a way that is not staying there.

I get like, I wouldn't be comfortable rooted in doubt, I

guess. Is it OK to have doubts, to have

questions to even? Is it OK?

I'm hearing this question. Is it OK to entertain the

thought? Has the wool truly been pulled

over like about this whole thing?

Is this whole thing a sham? Have it, have it?

Has it somehow been meticulously orchestrated for 6000 years and

it just got all of us? There's part of me that there's

like maybe like, OK, and I know that sounds crazy, but like even

if that's true, OK, it's then it's then there is nothing then

then some somehow it was, it was The Big Bang and there's nothing

after this life and this, there's nothing in this life

worth living for anyway because there's not an afterlife.

Like OK, no, for the other 99.99 repeating what?

Like no, this makes the MO. This is the most likely thing

for how we got here and for where we're going, right?

So I don't know, I guess you could entertain that in in

passing, but it but it would have to be in like the all or

nothing sort of way, like not I I wouldn't question little

aspects of it like did did God really, man?

Now OK, I'm stuck thinking of a specific example, but I'd have

to throw the whole like I I would only be comfortable

entertaining doubt in a like throwing the whole thing out

sort of way I guess. Yeah, and I think you know what,

there have been multiple times throughout the last 15 plus

years, however long I've gotten to be a Christian.

There have been multiple times where I'm like, man, am I am I

just messing myself up? Am I wasting what could be in

otherwise eat, drink and be merry life for for this thing

that points me in a higher calling, you know, And so I I

think those things are going to arise.

And there's a couple ways I think you can snap out of it.

Like, you know, you can just do a little research and go, you

know what, that Walls of Jericho thing, that's ridiculous.

And that should never happen. And you can you can think

through logically some of the things that we brought up even

on this show today. But more than anything, CS Lewis

says it this way. And I thought this was really

good. You know, for the duck who

craves water, there's a pond. For the baby who needs and

craves milk, there is a mother. You know, for for desires of

intimacy, there are relationships.

So he's going to CS Lewis is going to make the argument that

for every human desire and want, there's an answer.

So therefore, if there is the human desire and want for there

to be something greater than ourselves, there's an answer.

And I think all of the best evidence points to Christianity

in lieu of any other world religion.

It points to Christianity as the most logical and viable answer

to that thing which we crave. And why do and why do we crave

that? Because The thing is like, gosh,

if I'm a secular person and I have fallen in love with just

the, the, the best woman in the world, she, she's just my entire

life. Well, as a secular person, I

know at some point, either I or she, we're going to die And, and

I'm going to lose that, which means love dies.

And maybe the greatest longing inside the human being, whether

you're secular or not, is to be known, to be seen to be loved,

to experience a deeper connection with another person

or potentially even another being.

And so the fact that that exists, that's not, that's not

evolutionary biology, because if it was just evolutionary

biology, it would just be like, well, I, you know, I had enough

kids to replace me and this person who I love who's just a

random combination of cells and that's good enough.

And, and I can die happy with that.

But the fact that the vast, vast majority of human beings cannot

die happy knowing that it means that there is something else

that we're chasing. And again, I think CS Lewis is

right. If we're chasing it, it already

exists. So.

Yeah, and some of you might be bothered by what I said a few

minutes ago about like having those moments of fleeting doubt,

but I think I think, and please don't hear what I'm not saying.

I, I, I still am drawn to the conclusion that, yeah, this is

Jesus is the way the truth and the life.

Like that's that's where my thought rests.

But in, in those moments, and many of you have asked the

questions of why does, why does God let this happen?

Why, why am I, why am I here burying my child?

Why, why, why do bad things happen to good people?

I think, I think it's in this moments that like, man, you know

what, you know what would kind of make the most sense, as if

none of this mattered at all. Like, like, like not, not in

some way. And again, we can have a long

philosophical conversation about this, but I think it's in those

moments that doubt seeps in that we're supposed to be drawn back

to, to the truth and goodness of of the word and reassured in

that, right, Trials, trials developed for the testing and

perseverance of our faith, right?

So. Yeah.

And I would say honestly, like, again, having studied just about

every world religion that has ever mattered that you can think

of, Christianity is far in a way, it's not close.

It is, is intellectually and archaeologically and all the

other ways it is the most viable.

So for me, if I was to, let's say, move away from

Christianity, I guarantee it's this or nothing for me.

If I'm not, if I'm not a Christian, it's all blown,

right? Yeah, 100% because none of the

other ones pass the litmus test. There are too many

inconsistencies that cannot be proven or have been straight out

disproven about these things. Where it's like if Christianity

isn't true and right, then none of the other ones are either.

Because Christianity has by far and away more resources and more

available proof to it than any of the other ones.

And so, yeah, for me, if I ever, for whatever terrible reason,

doubted everything, I know all the science, all the facts, if

for some reason I could get around all those things and I

could doubt that enough to not believe in Christianity, then it

would be nothing at all, because none of the other ones pass.

No, they're not cohesive or they're not.

Yeah. There's a fallacy ultimately

where where like that even falls short of faith because I think,

I think that's of course there's room for doubt.

I think because there's, it's, it's in faith like that's,

that's the missing link in Christianity is whether or not

you believe it, that that's, that's the only delimiter.

I, I, I guess in that every other religion is, is that plus

some other things. You you have you have to not

only believe it but also make allowance for XYZ or or just buy

into some things that just they're man made so they aren't

rationally complete. Well, and of course, like, you

have to, I don't think you can talk about doubt without talking

about the most famous doubter of all time, which is our good

friend Thomas. And Thomas who walked around and

saw Jesus do all these miracles for, you know, upwards of three

years. You know, Jesus takes on the

cross, dies, and his buddies who he would have no reason not to

believe them, like he's best friends with these guys.

They say we saw Jesus alive and well.

And he's like, yeah, but not until I put my fingers and his

hands and his side and all this stuff.

And you're like, Dang, man, like you, you went really hard on

that. And what does Jesus do?

He doesn't. I mean, there's some level of

chastisement because, all right, Thomas, put your money where

your mouth is, or rather put your hand where my side is.

So like, Jesus does allow for doubt and even even doubting to

the point of what Peter did before the crucifixion.

Straight up denial. Yeah, Peter denies Jesus three

times and Jesus still comes back to him and says, I forgive you.

There's room for you in my Kingdom.

In fact, not only is there room for you in my Kingdom, there's

room for you to be a leader, a leader who matters, who's going

to actually bring other people into the faith that you said no

to at one point. And so I think that's a powerful

part of the gospel that we have to take on as like when we when

we have doubts and maybe we feel bad later because God must be so

mad at me or he must be so upset with me or doesn't even love me

anymore. Am I forgiven because I kind of

like turned away from him? Come on, look at Peter, look at

Thomas. Jesus loved these two men and

and he loves us even in our doubts.

It's OK to doubt. There it is.

But let's doubt our doubts. Let's do that because that's

smart and that will actually lead you down a path of research

and asking good questions. So if nothing else, doubts

should just lead you to ask more questions, and that's not a bad

thing at all. Yeah, All right, we've got one

more thing for the episode today.

Christmas. We're going to get back to some

Christmas talk and you guys discovered some clips, some

reactions from Josh Howerton about how home alone is is a

Christian Christmas movie. So we're going to play the clips

of audio for you guys to hear the these conclusions as as Josh

Howerton. He's a he's a pastor.

He's spoken to conferences we've gone to and just has been a

really good thinker about things, especially recently in

modern day society. But this is some cool stuff.

If you've never noticed it in In Home Alone that he points out,

take a listen. He had this post that also went

viral about how Home Alone is a Christian movie.

This is nuts. I can't live nerd this before.

It's the the scene where Kevins walking into the church, right?

And so I'm going to read this. He says, watch this scene very

carefully where Kevin is drawn into the beauty and warmth of

the church. As he walks inside to oh, holy

night, he hears the words fall on your knees.

Oh, here are the Angel voices. Now.

Next screenshot I'm setting the mood.

A. Sanctuary candle passes across

the foreground indicating that Christ is present inside the

church. Then next screenshot, Kevin has

an encounter with a Christ figure.

Now if if you think this is crazy, just stick with me for a

second. Kevin has an encounter with a

Christ figure, Old Man Marley. Now this isn't in the post, but

I'll just point this out. When you first meet Old man

Marley in the movie, what's he doing?

He's salting the earth now. So check this out.

So old man Marley, Christ figure Kevin makes a confession to him,

then shakes his hand and we see a bandage on Marley's hand.

Now check this out bro, check this out.

It's never explained in the movie why his hand is wounded,

but earlier in the movie we see drumroll.

Go to that next one. Go to the next one.

His hand. Is pierced all the way through,

so top there blood go back to the other one bottom blood.

His hand is pierced all the way through, like the nails driven

through Christ's hands on the cross.

At the end of the movie, Kevin cannot save himself from the

burglars, and so Marley appears again to rescue him.

Home Alone is a Christian movie. Wow.

Wow, Home Alone is a Christian movie.

I had never connected any of these things before.

Like there's glimpses, but to get to this drawn out

conclusion, like really cool. See what I always thought?

OK, so Kevin's in the store not long after his parents have left

him behind. Kevin's in the store.

And you watch him walk into the store, and he slaps down his

money, and he's got this bandage over his whole hand and there's

blood. And I was just like, oh, I

always just thought this is affirming that this guy is shady

and he's been doing some stuff that like.

Got him messed up. Got him all messed up, man.

Who's he been fighting with? Who's he been working, you know,

And so like, I had never made that connection.

I feel so dense. I really do.

Yeah, I I hadn't either, but it's just I wondered like until

that's what I hearing that was like.

Oh, man, that makes sense. Yeah.

Because I wonder, like, what's with the hand?

And they make a big deal out of it.

And then, like, at one point they just show towards the end,

he has the Band-Aid on top and you're like, OK, but it was

wrapped last time when he's at the store.

Like, yeah. Yeah, but then it's both sides

and all the way through and. Yeah, and they made a big deal.

I mean, it's a when he's in the store, it's a close up of the

hand. Like why would you even include

that if that wasn't very intentional for a Christ figure?

The other thing that maybe we didn't hear in the clip?

I've got there's oh wait, there's more.

We'll we'll play Part 2 too, but.

Yeah, but the the prodigal son, the dad, well, the Christ

figure, right? He's hugging the prodigal son

who's come home. Oh my gosh, it's so good.

It's so good. Just that whole thing I will

never watch. I've probably seen that movie 30

times and I will never watch it the same again.

And I will appreciate it far more than I ever have.

Yeah, so he draws out more. There's a second clip and we'll

we'll increase in the episode too.

You can watch him because he shows some of the movie scenes

in the videos too. But here's here's at least the

audio. Listen to his thoughts here and

and we'll be back with a little more.

So last week we did the The Homeland as a Christian movie

that way. Super stupid viral.

So then we have all these, we have all these podcast

listeners. This start like sleuthing this

thing, dude, I learned some stuff this week that makes it

even better. We have podcast listener who

works in Hollywood. This is going to blow your mind.

This guy sends me this and he's like, Oh yeah, I got dude, the

two guys that rode home alone, devout Christians, devout

Catholics. Then he sends me the original

script of Home Alone. No way.

I'm looking at it right now. I'm going to do a brief reading

of what was supposed to happen in the original script of Home

Alone. When Kevin is in the church with

all my Marley this is going to blow your mind Marley I was

baptized in this church. Kevin looks up.

Then Marley says I got married in this church.

My boys got married in this church.

I said goodbye to my wife in this church.

Then Kevin after a long pause says you got divorced in a

church. This is supposed to be funny

right? So then Marley laughs.

Kevin smiles and Marley says I don't laugh too much anymore but

you got me. Then Marley says what I meant

was, was that the services for my wife when she died were here.

The script says. Kevin feels terrible.

Marley says it won't be too long before they have my services

here. Kevin.

You shouldn't say that Marley. I'm an old man.

I've had a lot of living. I'd like to be with my wife

again, Kevin. Is that possible?

Marley? I believe it up in the Kingdom,

not here. Kevin says.

Oh Marley, this time with my wife for eternity.

Long pause, Marley says. So you've been a you've been a

good boy this year. Kevin looks up at Marley.

After a long beat, he shakes his head.

No. Marley says.

Maybe you ought to tell him. Who, Kevin says.

Marley shifts his eyes up to the ceiling.

Should I bother him on Christmas, Marley?

He's hope he's open all year round.

Marley, he'll listen. You're a good soul.

And you tell him about the trouble you had with your folks.

Kevin is startled that Marley knows.

Stick with me for just a second here, Kevin.

You know about them, Marley. Just a guess.

You get on your knee and you ask him to fix things for your

folks. And you say please.

And you say thank you for all the other things that he's done

for you. And then you go on home where

you belong. And then it says Kevin kneels

and he prays and then he finishes and he looks back at

Marley and Kevin says, how long does it usually take for things

like this to work? Marley says give him till

morning. Kevin says OK, and then listen.

The last thing it says is Marley holds out his hand.

So we learned earlier in the movie, it shows his hands are

pierced all the way through, bro.

In the last scene of the movie, when Marley has just finished

saving Kevin and you see him reunited with his prodigal son.

Look, look at this. So, so throw that up.

His hand is healed. So sort of a symbolic, a

completion of the redemptive work of Christ.

So there you go, Part 2, Home alone.

That's good. A Christian movie.

It's so good. It's amazing, really cool.

I really think if they'd left the script just the way it was,

it would still be as popular today, if maybe not more so as

it already is. Yeah, you could have left the

script just the same. Let that church seem be what it

is, allow it to point us to Christ and it still would have

been a huge movie for the last 40 years or whatever.

But yeah, the fact that those those Easter eggs, those

glimpses, those things were included, produced and and put

out there. Maybe you all have noticed all

these, maybe maybe we even live in the dark, I don't know.

But really cool to see the progression of all that and the

deeper meeting contained. Just go watch Home Alone one

more time now go ahead. It'll be a way better experience

than it ever has been. Yeah.

So on that, Merry Christmas from the three of us.

ERC crew here. Thanks for being a part of our

community and and doing life doing this Christian walk with

Jesus, Steph with us. Really grateful for you church

as as a community of people and we we love doing what we do.

We love serving and and caring for you and building up God's

Kingdom here in DeWitt and the surrounding communities.

So Merry Christmas from us to you.

We are taking a break from the podcast next week.

There will not be 1 next Monday, the 29th of December.

I'm going to be gone and just, yeah, just going to take a take

a rest from the podcast for a week.

It'll be OK. We will be back in January as we

get into the sermon series on the four FS, faith, family,

fitness and finances. That's what we're, that's what

we're doing in the new year. The first Sunday in January is

going to be one more Sunday. We've talked a lot about how our

mission, we're using the language of reaching the one

more. What does that mean for one more

Sunday? Well, the gospel message

encouraging those in your life who don't know Jesus to get to

know Jesus and know what he did for them.

That message is going to be abundantly clear in the services

that Sunday. So bring your one more January

4th to church. Start the new year off with us

and and give him a little Jesus sprinkle to to start off the

year in January. So that's two services on

January 4th, 9:00 and 10:45. Reminder for this week, on

December 28th, we are just having the one worship gathering

at 10:45 AM on Sunday. That's it.

I think that's all the things we have to say.

Yeah, that's it. Oh.

Thanks. Merry Christmas.

Happy New Year. So exciting.

I love this time of year. It's so great.

I love it. I can't say enough.

I'm going to stop. Awesome, thanks for hanging with

us. Have a blessed week, Church.