Leftovers - Romans 8:18-25

Happy Monday. Pastor Matt's here with you.

Pastor Chris along for the ride as well.

Welcome to the ERC Leftovers podcast.

We're coming up. We Pat, do we pass a year?

I don't remember it. We need to.

We need to do that. We have.

I think episode 50 is coming up. Maybe it already happened.

Oh man, we're so bad at this. I'm so bad at this.

Well, yeah, because, you know, if you haven't figured it out

yet, Matt, is, I think the brains behind the operation.

I don't feel bad saying that. Well, but you know, you're

you're the guy. I am the guy.

You do the things, you know, if you could see us right now, if

we're doing a, a video version, Matt's the one who's setting up

the recording and all that kind of stuff.

And he's the one who's like tracking things.

And you post all of the sermon podcasts and stuff like that.

Like you are the the the brains in the administrator behind all

of this madness that we do. So we really the, the first one,

the first leftovers, we were in the middle of the Revelation

series last year and we were like, it's way too much going on

Revelation four and five, that sermon didn't get it.

I had so many things that I didn't get to say.

So that was February 10th of last year.

So we're 55 weeks worth, which I guess so we missed the milestone

episode 50. We'll have to wait for 100

coming up. But like, we'll, yeah, we'll do

something, do something crazy. There are there are ideas out

there for that. Maybe there'll even be video by

then for episode 100. And then, yeah, it'll make

today's discussion a little more relevant as we as we get into

the, yeah, the icebreaker, you won't just have to imagine what

you're what we're talking about. You can, that's true.

You can see it on video too, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know what, Speaking of just, you know, here's the thing.

Over the last year of doing this podcast, one of the funny things

that I suspect happens is that I don't know, like they're just

things that you can bring up randomly that they don't seem

off limits. And so today, as we were kind of

talking at staff meeting, just started talking about facial

hair choices. Oh boy.

Now, Mr. Schweitzer, you have recently adopted a beard and

I've known you for a number of years now, and you've never done

that, but now you have one. So yeah, it's thank you.

It's it's generous. It's generous of you to call it

that. I for a long time, I mean, I

don't know, I don't feel like it's a full-fledged beard

because so like I look at your beard and you've got, you've got

some room up the cheeks, like the, it your, your beard

connects to like the top of your mouth and also goes.

There's not hair that comes in on the cheeks for me.

Like it's, it's really, I didn't.

You have to shave something there, don't you?

I, I trimmed it, but like, it's like singular hairs on my

cheeks. There's no, there's no like,

there's no like blanket of beard hair.

I'm blanket of beard. OK, I need to hold on to that

phrase because I love. It I don't have a beard blanket

on my cheeks. No, no.

So, so my struggle and why you've never seen me with a

beard is like the OK, the this is a goatee.

The whole. The whole thing, Sorry, I didn't

I didn't do the you say you never have gone less than a soul

patch in like I don't know how many years.

It's. True, the flavor saver, Kristen

would say anyway, So the the goatee with with the mustache

and and that like that's really the only spot that it's like my

hair has grown in strongly in in my life.

It's all my it's all my dad has too.

My dad like actually pretty actively shaves just down to

down to a goatee. He does have a thinner beard

kind of on the jawline that I that I have going to.

I have a little more hair than he does there, but I like on the

cheeks. I don't it's not there like I've

I've cleaned it up because I don't want just like the

singular stragglers, but I don't I don't have what you have on

the cheek. Like it's just not that thick.

It's only this inch thick, just like my whole jawline.

And then I also get the neck beard too, which I.

Neck beard that. I don't some of y'all rocket I

need, I feel like I need to let the rest of this get longer.

I don't I don't want the neckbeard to be like the

prominent feature of it. I need to let the front get

longer before I can let the neck really come in.

So. You know, I've never, I've never

thought. About this way too much.

No, no. I've never thought about it till

now. You know what I would find

hilarious? Oh no, if.

Everybody. If somebody shaved everything

but the neckbeard, Can you imagine what that would look

like? You can't do that.

It would be so funny. It would be hilarious.

It would be so funny. You definitely like just having

the guys who have wives. You definitely can't do that

because you you will not have a wife anymore and no one will

blame her. It would be so funny.

Just the neckbeard, no. Nothing else.

Nothing else. I think we just thought up a

Valentine's Day punishment. No, I cannot participate.

Just a neckbeard. Chris preaching in Fringe and a

neckbeard next year. No, I quit.

I quit. Chris, your.

Face has fringe. It's on your neck.

Your. Face has your face has fringe.

That is going too far, Sir. I cannot deal with that.

That is too much. I won't do it.

In the neckbeard, kind of the fringe of the face though I

guess it is. Yikes.

OK, this is better. When you when you said you

wanted to talk about facial hair, I had no idea where we

were going. And I'm I'm at least entertained

that we ended up here. I'm not sure if it's good that

we ended up here, but yeah. OK, well, I just, you know,

there's some people who I think, OK, so.

And by the way, it's not a good neither of us.

We've both talked about this at length.

We have to have some facial hair.

We can't we You don't want to see our face either.

You don't want to see either of our faces.

Our hairless. Faces.

It's not good. No, it's not great.

I mean, so my wife will testify to like, 'cause I always make

the joke. I was like, you just don't like

my face. And she's like, no, your face is

fine, It's just better with hair.

And I went, OK, that's fine. I can, I can take that, I guess.

But yeah, the couple times I've, you know, kind of gone without

any facial hair, it's weird. It's just really strange.

And even Kristen, as she balls up her tiny little fist and

points at me and she's like, no, you can't shave.

And she's probably right. She's probably right.

No, in the same way that she we we're glad that she doesn't have

a beard. Yeah.

She's glad that we have beards. So wow, I don't know.

Sorry. Just when he thought we couldn't

get further off the rails, Nope, we can.

Yeah. So that was a productive Monday

morning staff meeting discussion that then made its way into the

podcast. So yeah, what is if if you had

what? What are some iconic like

celebrity or or what? What are some iconic facial hair

things that are prominent in your mind, People.

OK, so if you grew up in the 80s like Tom Selleck's mustache.

Magnum, right? Like Magnum Pi.

Yeah, I mean, he rocked that mustache so well that he

actually made. I mean, I I'm not just

necessarily a fan of just mustaches on their own, but man,

that guy. He is.

He's the mustache. Yeah.

What about who's, who's the? Is it the Coors guy?

He's got a, he's got a deep, deep Southern Western voice.

Oh, I know that guy. Gray hair, Yeah.

Why? Oh man, people are shouting at

us that. They know his name.

Oh, he's got Sam. Sam.

Sam, Darn it. Dang it.

Yep. People are people are yelling at

us now. They they know where we're

supposed to be. Yell in your car.

You know what this guy's name is?

Sam Elliott. Sam Elliott.

Sam Elliott. I thought of it before Google

answered the question. It came.

It came to my head. Sam Elliott.

Yeah. That's an iconic, that's an

iconic facial hair. He's got the.

He's got the low southern drawl and the and the he's got a big

fluffy must. He's not like a fluffy.

I feel like Magnums is like it's tight.

It's like Caterpillar tight and thick.

But like, I feel like Sam Elliott's is like fluffy.

It is. It is feathery, yeah.

Feathery. I don't know that you'd want to

Nestle down into there, but you might be OK with them.

This got way weirder than I thought, than I thought it could

have. Oh man.

Oh my gosh. OK, So what about those are

mustaches though, Like, and and we did talk about this.

I have gone just mustache in my in my time at ERC.

That was a fun two or three weeks.

Maybe not for the rest of you, but that was that was July 2023.

There are pictures somewhere, but yeah, not gonna go back to

that. Not gonna go back to just

mustache. Are there other prominent faces

you can think of that are not just mustache that are just like

that guy's got a good beard? You know, oh gosh, some really

great beards. John Krasinski from the made

made most famous by The Office. He has grown a beard for certain

roles and I think he looks fantastic with it.

But he can also pull off no facial hair at all.

He can, because that character, Jim on The Office was Babyface

Jim. I think he's the rare person who

does both really, really well. Like, again, naming me like, I

can't do both really well. It's one no, but he can do both

really, really well. Did you have somebody in mind?

I can't think of I I can't think of, I guess like an iconic

celebrity beard. Maybe we'll need well, I.

OK, so basketball player James Harden, like his nickname, is

literally the beard. You can't see his mouth and

he's. Weird.

Yeah, it it's been more refined now.

It's just kind of like big and long and bushy, but it was he

had this thing like chiseled into a cone off of his face

almost, but it was like really long.

I guess that's the one that comes to mind.

I can't think of like actors or celebrities though that just

iconically have beard face. Maybe did do you know?

OK, so Dumbledore in the Harry Potter movies was played by a

couple different actors, yes, but the second one was that his

real beard 'cause that was intense like that was a.

That could no way. He would have to grow.

He would have to grow that for like 4 years.

There's no way that was real. I mean, I think Hollywood does a

great job either creating facial hair or whatever, but there's no

way that'd be like a four or five.

That's ZZ Top level beard. OK, no, they were not real.

They were not real. What about Ian McKellen, Gandalf

in Lord of the Rings? When he turned into what?

Was Gandalf the White? Gandalf the White, I think that

was him. And even even Saruman the the

evil wizard. That looked up really authentic

too. Yeah, so.

But again, those are like characters.

I feel like those guys probably aren't.

They're not walking. Around in their everyday life,

they're not walking around like a wizard.

No, because like Sir Ian McKellen, he's always been a

clean shaven guy. You can watch him and other

things or see him in interviews and just a very classy looking

man, clean shaven. So I guess I don't know, I don't

think I have like prominent beard looks in in mind.

So, you know, you know who, who is super famous, who I don't

think does any facial hair well, which is Matthew McConaughey.

He's got this great Southern draw like you were kind of

talking about with Sam Elliott. And he's he's awesome to listen

to and he's a great actor. But when I've seen him in

interviews with facial hair, it just, he just looks awful.

Like it's, it's not a good look for him.

He cannot pull it off, I don't think.

Yeah, I don't know, even going through this list, I feel like,

I don't know. I feel like I'm not seeing just

like iconic celebrities. So let us know if there's, I

don't know, other men out there that you feel like have just

been defined by their beard. We have a lot of good beards at

church. Like there's, there's, we got a

lot of, yeah, a lot of men. Tom's got a great beard.

Yep, really well shaped and everything.

His dad, his dad Dwight, had the Yeah, that, that was a beard

that was getting there. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, Josh, Josh Cannon,

great beard. And when we were talking about

trying to put that up as like something to maybe shave off

for, to raise money for our youth group during Valentine's

Day, him and his wife were both like, no.

No, that was a non non starter. Nope, not going to happen.

He yeah, I feel, I feel like there's a lot of dads, a lot of

the dads that have beards here are are the my kids have never

seen my face Dad, dad's like, yeah.

And that's fine. A couple times my kids have seen

my bald face. They're like, oh, gross, Daddy.

Yeah. Bald and cold and sad and

little. That's recently I I just took

basically like a A1 Garter, no guard and trimmed everything up.

And Kristen came to me and she's like, why is your face so small?

I just felt, I felt terrible in that moment.

I was like, oh, I have a tiny head now.

So OK, I can't do. I definitely can't even do.

That your head got smaller. Why is your head so little?

Oh, my goodness. All right.

Well, that was Yeah. If we're, if we are missing

prominent beards that you know of, please let us know.

We need more, more beard examples in our life.

So we are in Romans 8. You did an awesome job

yesterday, I thought, continuing our progression through the

greatest chapter, Paul's writing writings to the church in Romans

8 focused a lot on hope this week and what we put our hope

in, what we maybe shouldn't put our hope in, but definitely what

our hope should be anchored in. So we're in Romans 8, verses 18

Romans 8:18–25

through 25 is what you covered and we're going to try to pick

up on, Yeah, some of the leftovers, maybe some of the

things that you didn't cover or, or jump in deeper on what we

discussed yesterday in the sermon.

So Romans 818 through 25. For I consider that the

sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the

glory that is to be revealed to us.

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing

of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected

to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it,

in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its

bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the

children of God. For we know that the whole

creation has been groaning together in the pains of

childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but

we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, grown

inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption

of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved.

Now hope that is seen as not hope.

For who hopes for what He sees? But if we hope for what we do

not see, we wait for it with patience.

Excellent yeah, one of the things that I think comes up

that I certainly didn't cover was the you know and.

And there's some crossover because I think you ended with

verse 18 and I picked it up this week.

So there's some crossover there. But, you know, addressing that,

the sufferings of this time from minor inconveniences to great,

you know, pain and disease and hardship and all these kinds of

things. Paul looks at that and he goes,

yeah, I mean, I get it. It's, it's difficult, but it's

nothing compared to what's coming, you know, in the most

positive sense you can think of. And so we took some time even

last night in my life group to say, OK, so how does Paul have

any, any context to talk about suffering?

And so you go, well, he's been shipwrecked a couple times.

They tried to stone him to death.

He's been beaten, he's been thrown in jail.

And he's got a laundry list of things that have happened to him

which are just awful, just terrible.

I think they make a an uninspired person just quit at

life and certainly quit at this pursuit of Christ.

But you know, it Harkins back to what made Paul do such a 180 to

go from persecuting Christians, having him thrown in prison or

even killed to a guy who's like, no, I'm going to I'm going to be

shipwrecked. I'm going to be beaten.

I'm going to be almost stoned to death and that's fine.

I'm going to keep plugging forward despite those things

because those sufferings are nothing compared to the glory

that's coming. So I think that's interesting

because I mean, he met Jesus quite literally, right.

And I think I think what's interesting in this verse 18 and

these are some thoughts from the enduring word commentary too,

that this is a glory to be revealed.

It's not being created. It's not, it's not this thing

that's being like formed and progressed towards as creation

and civilization adapts or changes or like it's already

established. The glory of God already is.

Did Paul get a glimpse of that on the road to Damascus?

Like, yeah, it in, in some ways it was revealed to him and it

did have that change in him. So it's already existent but not

apparent. And that's, and that's what

Paul's like. Did he get just a little, a

little taste, a a little glimpse of what that is and what it's

worth suffering for? Yeah, so Paul seen Jesus Christ

in his glorified body and demeanor.

It rocked his world. And so I actually, it's

interesting because you will you, if you look it up, you can

find stories all over the Internet of people who they're,

they're Islamic, right. But especially kind of during

Ramadan, there's a, there's a heightened spiritual awareness

for them. And so many of them are praying

for God to reveal himself. And So what has happened to many

of these people is that Jesus, they will report that Jesus has

showed up in their dreams glorified.

And so they will do a 180, which means they're family.

Like they're kicked out of their family.

They're basically kicked out of their community because they

have gone from being Muslims to Christians overnight.

And they all kind of simultaneously report something

very similar, which is Jesus showed up to me in my dream.

I saw him that was real. That wasn't just a dream.

Like I asked God to show up and, and show himself to me and this

is how he showed up. And they instantly convert

overnight. Now you might ask the question,

why doesn't God just do that to everybody?

Well. These people, again, they are

very highly intentionally seeking the presence of God

during Ramadan in particular. And so it's just really cool to

hear those stories coming out of kind of all over the planet.

Yeah, I don't know. So I think, yeah, I think that

lends credence to, yes, that that being real.

But on the same token, like for those of us who are Christians

who profess faith in Christ, do we hold, do we hold our faith

with that same sort of like, have you met Jesus, kind of

like, have you really met Jesus? Do you do you live your life

having encountered the living God?

I don't know. That's a that's a question for

for you and us to answer. Have have we understood and come

to relationship with Jesus without that radical revelation

moment, I guess that Paul had or or some of these people have so

we have we have that contrast those that he has revealed

himself to. Yes, there there is that seismic

change. Are we living lives out as

Christians in that way? Because what the if not, what

are what are we living for? Like if if you aren't living a

life already, not yet with with heaven in mind.

And we're going to talk about hope a little bit later and how

we we've talked about it. Sometimes our, our modern

understanding of hope is very different than what that word

was in our in the Greek, in our, in our Bibles.

And it's a lot more wishful now then yeah, then the certainty

that that the Greeks talked about with hope.

But are are we living even a without having to glorify Jesus

in front of us to to transform our lives?

Like are are we living a life with heaven in mind, with the

surety of heaven in mind? I think it's an interesting

challenge. Well, and I think The thing is,

if you ask the question, well, why doesn't Jesus do that with

everybody who believes in him so that there's even a deeper

greater appreciation and assurance and understanding, all

that kind of stuff? Well, this is the same Jesus in

his glorified form who said blessed are those who have not

yet seen and still believe. So there is a special blessing

that comes with enduring suffering, enduring some

hardship, holding on to that God-given faith, even though

maybe the physically glorified Christ has not shown himself to

our eyeballs, you know, And so I just, I think I think God loves

the faith that he's given us and I think he calls us to lean into

that. And quite frankly, I talked a

little bit about it yesterday. And man, how else do you gain

meaning in suffering unless you have this hope and a glorified

Christ who will also bring the, the sons and daughters of faith

with him in that redemption, in that glorification?

How do you find any meaning suffering?

Because without that, I, I can't help but think that suffering is

just a, a huge bump in the road, a a substantial inconvenience

during what is otherwise I'm trying to make a fun and a good

and a healthy life. Well, when suffering comes

without hope in Christ and hope in resurrection and hope in new

heavens, new earth and all those kinds of things, when suffering

comes, it's just really annoying and it feels unfair and it feels

random and it feels all these different things.

And it's like, man, I, if I'm going to create, if, if, if

there's any meaning in suffering that can only come with the hope

in Jesus Christ because nothing else will do.

And that's attached to that hope is that the present sufferings

that Paul talks about like not worthy to be compared with the

coming glory, but also that like this suffering, isn't it?

It's not gonna remain this way. That's that's the Christian hope

that can be had. What I also think is is

interesting you you touched on creation being subject to

futility in in verse 20. You use the word, the kind of

synonym there could you could translate as futility or

frustrated frustration in there. I think that attached to hope

and the things that you talked about in the message yesterday

is whether it's the American dream or or career success or or

monetary worth or or whatever it might be.

None of those like in and of themselves are evil or or

sinful. But parsing out verse 20 here,

creation subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of

him who subjected it, God's creating these things.

He has structured these things to not be it like that.

They're meant to fail, that they're meant to run out.

They're meant to not be the thing that sustains and brings

ultimate hope in, in eternal, right?

Like that's Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone, right?

So it's in some ways, even even the success we have in these

things, God didn't orchestrate them to be the foundation on

which we stand right, that they're meant to disappoint.

They're meant to run out and and in our time, honor we have like

it's still rule over the earth and subdue it like what we're

still we're still stewards in in the vineyard.

We're servants in the vineyard tending, tending the fields for

the masters return and like and caring for those things.

I'm not going all Ecclesiastes and just like everything is

meaningless here either, but I, I think you did a really good

job of, of honing in on that yesterday.

Like these things that we make the point aren't the point.

Well, and that's what, and, and please know that I, I think I

had a couple people come up to me yesterday and, and we had

conversations about the sermon and stuff.

And, and I, and I think I shared with at least a couple people,

you know, I, I was preaching to me, honestly, like the fact that

that hopefully was meaningful for other people.

That's great. But like I needed, I needed that

preach to me. And so just in development and

looking at these verses and development and coming to kind

of some, some fruition about some things, it's like, I need

to hear this. I need to remember that like

when I put my hope in financial security, which I've done, and I

put my hope in my family, which I've done, those things can they

can just never, they can't hold the weight of what I expect from

them. And it's never worked out.

And I'm always, I've been always so disappointed.

And even when I've been successful in some of the things

that I realized later I was putting my hope in that success

didn't really give me the joy that I thought it would.

It still felt a little empty in the end.

And inevitably, give it a day, give it a week or a month, and

all of a sudden I'm back hoping again because it either didn't

work out or it did work out. And now I'm searching for

something else. And it's just what a terrible

cycle to be in. And I've been in that too many

times myself. And so, yeah, those, those words

that I'm said yesterday, they were just as much for me as

anybody else. And I think that's an important

thing for a preacher to do is like, it's in some ways, if it's

going to be effective, and this is preacher talk, but in some

ways, if it's going to be effective for any given

audience, it has to be effective for me first because I am not.

My life is not uncommon. I experienced the same things

everybody else does, the highs and the lows and everything in

between. And so man, God's got a word for

me too. And happy, happy to be able to

help other people understand that you're not alone in those

things. But I think it's interesting

too, that these, these sufferings or these struggles

and, and whatever you want to have it out the, the business

venture that didn't work out or the, OR the physical ailments

that continue to stack up against you or, or the, the

bills that aren't getting any smaller or like the futility of

that all verse verse 21 says creation being set free from its

bondage to corruption. Like I feel like there's an

aspect of that these things that are constantly failing or that

these things that are constantly a struggle are actually

screaming. There's more to life than this.

Like, and, and, and God set it up.

It why, why did he subject it to futility?

Because that it's a beacon of why are you hoping and these

things that fail that disappoint?

I think that's what that's what you said yesterday, challenging

where, where is your hope? Why do you why do you keep

putting your hope in things to disappoint you?

A Christian hope put in Jesus Christ will not be disappointed

that that doesn't end in disappointment.

So why does God allow suffering? And again, God didn't create

suffering That that is it. That is a fallout of sinful

rebellion. Why?

Why does he allow it? Because it's all the more

supposed to point us back to Jesus.

I, I think, like, why are you, are you pursuing the definition

of insanity, of trying this thing over and over and over

again that fails over and over and over again instead of

running to Jesus? Like, yeah.

I mentioned this last night in our group and it's something

that a pastor told me that I'll never forget.

Ron Erickson out of Williston, ND.

He said this to me at maybe just the right time in my life

because, you know, dealing with life and death and all these

kinds of things sometimes, sometimes on a weekly basis.

And he just said, you know, Chris, God has a way of weaning

us off this world. So in other words, God has a

way. And sometimes it is often times

I think it's frustrating things and things that are inconvenient

and annoying or just outright painful.

But God has a way of saying, you know what?

I I need you to love this current state a little bit less

and to to lean into my relationship with you a little

bit more. And it seems maybe to God that

one of the key ways of doing that is to make sure that we

understand that this world is not it, that it doesn't really

fully satisfy everything that we are successful in, as the right

of Ecclesiastes talks about it, in some ways, it's kind of in

vain. Like whether it's financial

resources or relationships, like, you know, all these things

eventually decay and fade away and what are we left with?

And so again, it all felt to me, quite honestly, it felt a little

heavy and I, I don't want to say dark, but it felt heavy coming

into that conversation with our church.

But ultimately, like we have to address that reality.

We have to talk about these things.

We can't always be, you know, skipping through fields and

whistling and we have to talk about some of these things,

these harder realities. And so, you know, I don't know,

I guess doing that it, it's, it's our call, right?

We get to talk about the hard things and we, we get to look

them square in the face and help other people do that well.

And so it's a, it's a gift to be able to do that, but there's

some difficulty there bringing that out.

Yeah, absolutely. There's an interesting phrase in

verse 22. Especially we have, we have this

for we know the whole creation has been groaning together in

the pains of childbirth until now.

OK, you actually started out your sermon a little bit talking

about death, talking about how it like from the moment, from

the moment we're born, we're, we're and, and that's kind of

what we would think all the, the world's, the, the world's dying.

The, the, the world's going off the rails and, and going away.

It's interesting that Paul writes, it's actually, there's

actually this expectation in creation, this, this glory to be

revealed. That's, that's actually, instead

of the the earth withering away and wasting away, we're actually

in this creation is in this preparatory time of the

revelation of the glory of God. That's the that's the rumblings,

that's the, the the evidence of these sufferings, the signs of

these sufferings is, is kind of a preamble in, in the way that

birthing pains would would be to, to this new thing to, to

this new creation, right? Not only creation, but we

ourselves who have the first fruits of the spirit grown

inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoptions as sons, the

redemption of our bodies, really the full realization of that

right. Like we talked about last week,

how we have we have this inheritance.

It's not it's not fully realized.

We, we don't we're not living in the glory of God.

We're we're in the already not yet.

But these these signs of suffering that the the present

sufferings are actually burning pains pointing towards the

revelation of God's glory. So I just want to pick that

apart that that's like a weird Paul, Why are we talking about

pregnancy? Yeah.

Well, but I mean, thank you for putting it that way because

actually thinking about it now, that's a much more, I would say

like positive pointing light because I I took it from more of

a death decay angle and that was overriding in some ways.

But you, you said that beautifully just now.

But yeah, I mean, think about this.

He gives this great little illustration about a mother in

pain. But why do women have multiple

children? Why would they do that more than

once? Because, you know, here's the

thing. You can watch all the videos and

stuff, but like until I suspect not speaking as a woman, but I

suspect you know, like you can see all the videos and stuff and

but until you live that you don't really know.

But as difficult as that is, women are many women are more

than happy as they're able and willing to have multiple

children even though they know how.

Far, yeah. Because there's something so

much greater on the other side of that pain.

There is new life, there is hope.

And I just, that's such a beautiful little illustration

that Paul gives us. And you put that.

Yeah, you framed this entire thing in a much more positive

way based off that verse. So thank you for doing that.

Thank you for adding yeah, speaking your expertise on on

pregnancy and and birthing children.

Whatever the podcast can you go to to get expert insight on

beards and pregnancy in the same in the same episode?

Yes, you're welcome. Men talking about pregnancy.

Clearly I'm an expert, right? That's what you came here for?

Yes, My goodness. I'm in trouble.

So let's let's kind of close out talking about hope here.

I know I've said this several times from from the stage on

Sundays. You've brought it up before too.

And I should have, because I think I know where you're going.

I should have said it again. I I think you did not explicitly

but like you made the point clear.

Verses 24 and 25 of chapter 8 in Romans 4.

In this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not

hope for who hopes for what he sees?

Let's stop there for a moment. If, if something is this is a

philosophical question, then of the of the importance of hope.

Cause a lot of people would say, why isn't Jesus?

I believe in Jesus if we just come back, right?

Like if I could see him, if he'd reveal himself to me, that would

do a lot of good for me. So then we need to think about,

OK, how powerful is hope? Well, Star Wars would tell you

rebellions are built on hope. Oh, here we go.

That's neither here nor there verse 25 but if we hope for what

we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

And this is where the sort of deeper meaning of hope in the

Greek language is is captured a lot better than our wishful.

I hope it's tacos for lunch today at school sort of sort of

flippant, fleeting hope. I I feel like it's it's more

often hope in the Greek language was was this thing unseen that

you were sure would come to pass right.

It it it was a certainty and and Paul ties then hope to you can't

who hopes for what he do what you do not or who hopes for what

he sees. It's in front of you.

You're not hoping for it. It's there.

But this Christian hope is attached to this glory to be

revealed, this, this full adoption as sons and daughters,

this, this Jesus Christ's return, waiting for it with

patience. So, and also, are you out there?

Are you out there hoping for things that you're not sure of

that are, that are going to come to pass?

And I think that's where part of the danger is too.

Are you? Are you spending hope on the

wrong things? You know, and The thing is like,

you know, you get to, you get to this thing about patients and

that's a big topic in itself. But The thing is that's really

interesting about that is that I can have patients and suffering

if I expect, hope, expect what's going to happen in my future

regardless of what the suffering may or may not look like.

So I think Tim Keller puts it this way.

What I believe about my future will absolutely change what I do

today. So that means that if I hope, if

I expect that my future is glorified as perfect, it's

without disease, it's without pain, sorrow, all these things

that we dread in this life, we avoid like the plague.

If I know, if I expect that everything is going to be made

right, every wrong undone, then I will move differently today,

even if I am suffering because, and I can do that with patience,

because I know what my future is.

It's a great little illustration that I'll be brief about.

But two women, OK, They are similar in background beliefs,

they're similar in how they grew up, culture, all these things,

They both take the exact same job.

One of them gets individually told at the end of the week,

we're going to give you $2000. The other one is individually,

quite privately told at the end of the week, we're going to give

you $2,000,000. So they meet at lunch one day,

3-4 days into the job, and their job is mundane and they're by

themselves in this little room with no windows, and they're

just putting these tiny pieces together and they don't even

know why they're doing it. So the one who's going to get

$2000 at the end of the week sees the other one in the

lunchroom and says, man, this job is kind of killing me.

It's so boring. There's nothing to do.

And I just don't, I don't even know why we're doing this.

And the other one is whistling going, this job is great.

This is the best job I've ever had.

Well, what's the difference between the two?

They have the same job. They have the same

circumstances, same backgrounds. Well, it's what they believe

about their future. That's the difference between

the two. So one with the exact same

circumstances is joyful and happy and the other one in the

same circumstances. It's just like I'm not feeling

this, you know? And So what do you believe about

your future will change how you interact with today?

Suffering good, bad, anything in between.

Yep. And that loops us right back to

the start of this passage. Then if you're, if you have the

Christian hope in Jesus Christ, then you have that.

You have that hope, that expectation of what your future

is. Then the sufferings of this

present time are not worth comparing with that.

It's it's the lady that has the $2,000,000, whatever, whatever

the job is. I know what's waiting for me at

the end of the week. Not worth, not worth comparing

the two. Perfect time.

Yeah. So there it is.

There it is. Maybe a little shorter this

week, but I thought, I thought you did a really good job of

working through all the all the angles and aspects there are.

Yeah. The questions you had for for

life groups and things, if you're not in a life group,

those are ongoing throughout the week.

Most of the format of them is, hey, you usually get together

for snacks or a meal or just time together.

There's some discussion questions on the sermon from

this week and you just spend some time on the word together.

And we really believe Christian community can and is that

simple. That's that's the foundations of

it. We believe there's power in the

word of God and and being in it regularly and encouraging each

other in it. So that's really they're they're

not meant to be clicky, culty little group things.

It it really is to encourage and foster community centered on the

word of God. So I encourage you to join a

life group too, if you're not already in one, and do a deeper

dive on the sermon serieses with us.

Meet some, meet some more people, some like minded

believers at this church with you too.

And yeah, that's the whole that's the whole life groups

spiel. But thanks man, for walking us

through this next part of Romans 8 this next week.

Do we? Do we reveal the?

Do we? I don't know, I guess.

Well, well, you and I, we already confessed that we told.

Our crew, the news. The news is neither one of us

are preaching on Sunday, and we can maybe leave that in

ambiguity. Uh oh.

If neither of us are preaching, who is 0?

Yes, moving guest, guest Mystery preacher next.

Let's leave it there. We'll leave it Mystery Preacher

on Sunday, March 8th. It is going to be great taking

us through the next step of Romans 8 here.

So thanks for tuning in, listen to the ERC Leftovers and joining

in on continued conversation with us.

Have a blessed week, Church.