Jesus came for everyone

G'day everyone.

Another episode of TUC Talks, Terrible Uniting Church Talks.

That's the acronym.

Acronym.

And um today I have the great pleasure of Dennis Towner to speak with me.

G'day, Dennis.

G'day, Richard.

It's a pleasure sharing this with you.

Yeah.

So this is the Sunday, the 2nd of August, and the reading is 1 Timothy 2, 1 to 7.

Yep.

1 Timothy 2, 1 to 7.

This is where Timothy is basically.

I think he's saying He's being told to.

He's being told to.

He's being told try.

Interesting, do you think it's Paul that wrote 1 and 2 Timothy?

I think it probably was.

Yeah.

But um, yeah, and so he's telling his young protege, this is how you do it, mate.

This is what you do, this is how you do it.

So one Timothy is written to um a young man named Timothy, and there's debate about the authorship, but we're gonna be saying Paul a fair bit, because we probably think it's Paul.

And young Timothy was he was, he was sort of like an apprentice to Paul, wasn't he?

Yes, he travelled with Paul, spent time with him.

And then they were having some trouble with the church at Ephesus.

Um, and so they sent Timothy along to sort them out.

Yep.

And so here's some instructions.

So the the letters of 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy are some instructions to Timothy to sort out this church.

Um interesting.

Did the way I understand the problems they were having, they had a couple of people that came into leadership of that church that were more or less trying to draw them back to the Old Testament kind of behavior.

Yeah.

Yes, um.

Really, what the why they were doing it undid the work that the gospel is doing in the in the in the believers' lives.

Yeah.

So they were undoing the sort of the good news of Christ.

Yes.

They were drawing them back to depending upon what they could do for God rather than what Christ has done for us.

Yeah.

So the reading today, it's really interesting because it's Paul writing to Timothy and basically saying, get this congregation to pray.

Get these people to pray.

Yes.

But who he asks them to pray for is the thing that I focused on largely on Sunday.

Yes.

So he basically says, get them praying.

I want them, these people to pray and pray well.

Yep.

And get them to pray for the leaders and kings so that there will be peace in the world.

Yeah.

So when the churches were established and when they were remember, this is the Roman Empire they're part of.

It is.

They're subject to the Roman authorities in charge of that part of the uh of the world.

So uh they could be being oppressed and at the whim of uh the locals so uh and uh going on to the the the Roman authorities.

So what Paul is suggesting is we need to be able to be left alone to do our thing.

Yes.

And so we need to pray for peace.

Now uh apparently like many scholars, particularly the scholars that believe that Paul wrote this, placed this l letter around 52 or 53.

And apparently Rome had a couple of years of relative calm.

And and the the church was not oppressed that much.

So at this point in time, there was a relative calm, but they knew what Rome was like, and Rome was a pretty hard taskmaster.

I'll say, yeah.

Yeah.

It's interesting that Paul is writing this because Paul was a Roman citizen, so yeah, so Paul actually had a little bit of power in the Roman world, but he's sort of saying, pray for peace so that we can do our task.

Yes.

Yeah.

Um, so I suppose my question is today, well, like one of the things that I pushed on Sunday was that if we're going to pray for peace for the world, it's not just praying for the ones that we like.

It's praying for everyone.

Yeah.

The ones we like and the ones that are opposed to us.

Yes.

If there's going to be change, then those that are a a worry for us need God's to work in their lives.

So pray for them and and not just pray for them to be changed, but pray for their needs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because really, if for true peace to happen, we need peace in all the sectors.

Yes, yeah.

In all the world.

I I found it interesting that that Paul in this is basically saying, because Jesus came and died for everyone.

Yes.

What do you mean what do you think he's meaning by the everyone there?

Well, I'm reminded of my grandmother.

Um at Christmas and birthday, her daughters and grandchildren would give her gifts, uh, like tea towels and sheets and all that sort of thing.

Everything you give to your grandparents.

And she'd put them in the linen cupboard.

And uh so they were all hers, they'd been given, but she didn't use them.

And I think that's what it's like with the gospel.

Um, we've been saved, it's been done.

Christ has done it.

But if you don't respond and you don't act on that gift of the gospel and eternal life, well, it's not doing you any good.

But it's still being done for you.

Christ died for all, and it's there.

It's been done.

It doesn't have to be Jesus doesn't have to die all over again.

Yeah, so it's been done.

How are you going to respond?

And so Paul here is sort of saying, pray for peace in this world so that people can respond.

Yes, yeah.

Okay.

So is it uh so with that, is it so that people can respond so that they can be saved?

Or is it people need to respond so that they get the benefit of what Christ has done for us?

Well, I think I think the you start with so they can be saved.

Yeah.

And then with that comes the blessings that Christ has done for us.

So uh there is a sense in what Paul is saying here of a universalism.

That was one of the things that I was interested in your opinion on.

Yeah.

I don't uh I wasn't brought up a Calvinist.

Yeah.

And uh but uh uh there is a sense that Calvinism is right.

Christ uh God has decided in advance from the beginning of time who's going to be saved.

So there's a sense they're right, but until you until you open the package You can't receive the gift.

You can't receive it.

Just for for those that don't know what Calvinism is, talk about what Calvinism is.

Well, Calvin was big on the the authority of God.

Uh uh it's all he uh it's all uh up to him.

And so uh he said God has already decided who will be saved, but also who won't be saved.

But I'm reminded of a question that was asked of Billy Graham about what did he think about uh uh Calvin and uh the other one there, the opposite.

Anyway, you say when I'm in the pulpit preaching, I'm a Calvinist.

But when I'm on my knees praying, yeah.

Okay, so he would because I like Calvinism, in a sense, if you take the whole idea of Calvinism too far, faith and evangelism is futile.

God knows what's God's done, and I do believe that God that that it takes away the sense of free will in some ways, hardcore Calvinism, doesn't it?

Yeah, yes.

But I I I get that God knows what we do and God knows what our decisions will be, but I don't believe that God has predestined that to happen.

No, no, I don't believe that.

You know, I think I think God's God's working for good all the time trying to help us understand what God wants.

Yes, yes.

Not not well, you know, that one's gonna work it out, that one's not.

God's a bit more wanting us all to be in part of the kingdom.

Well the Paul as he says what isn't he wants uh all to be saved, wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because he goes on to basically say one of the things that this passage that I didn't talk about, that Paul is really clear with Timothy, there is only one person that has done all this, and that is Jesus Christ.

He is the one that has saved us, he is the one that came, he is the one that died, he is the one that gives us the opportunity to be with God, and if anyone wants to be with God, they need to go through Jesus Christ.

Yeah, so in a sense, that universalist kind of understanding of any path will lead to God, Paul is saying no, there is one person that leads us to God, and that is Jesus.

Yes, yeah.

He's fairly blunt with that, isn't he?

Oh yes, yes, yeah.

Um I think uh there are many paths to come uh be aware of God and have some understanding that there is a God and and he's good, and but to be in a relationship with God, it's only through Christ, only through Jesus.

Yeah, it's only through the actions of Jesus that we can have this relationship with Christ, with God.

Yeah.

So so One Timothy, one of the things that I missed last week, I missed chapter one of One Timothy, which is probably the reason that I think it is Paul that wrote this.

Because it starts off with I Paul, yeah, you know, I'm writing to you, Timothy, and and then he goes on to sort of say that you know, I want you to encourage people to understand that the gospel is great, that the gospel is the good news is for us all.

Yep.

And he basically says that the gospel is for everyone, because if it was for me, then it's for everyone.

Because Paul basically goes, says, I was I was a terror.

I was horrible.

I was horrible to people, yeah, and and the gospel transformed me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because he was pretty Paul was pretty harsh, wasn't he?

Oh, I'll say.

You know, he so we you know, if we go to the book of Acts, we see him he hunted out the Christians for quite some time.

And letters of authority and to the Jewish uh authorities in Damascus to root out the these heretics and to get rid of them.

Get rid of them.

Yeah.

And so he sort of says right from the start, look, if if Jesus Christ can embrace me, then Jesus Christ can embrace anyone.

Yes, yes.

And therefore, this good news is for everyone.

If it's if it if it's good enough for me, who was opposed to this, it is good enough for absolutely anyone.

Yep.

Thank God for that.

Yes.

And did you have any other thoughts from this passage from this week?

Because it it's a fairly simple message in some ways, isn't it?

Yeah.

Uh I think there were two aspects.

One was the uh fact of the gospel being for everyone, Christ and the other one was the praying for the authorities for leaders, kings and leaders.

There were two aspects of the this passage that interested me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I I think we we quite easily say yes, we should pray for everyone and we should pray for all leaders, but I actually think it's really hard for us to do.

Well, here's the thing when we pray for people including especially people we leaders we don't like that we're uh opposed to, what are we actually going to pray for for them?

Yes.

Now I don't like Pauline Hansen's uh policies one little bit.

So what do I pray for Pauline?

Because she sure needs prayer.

It's interesting because I actually think if you pray for someone, it does two things.

You're asking God to soften them, yeah, but I actually think God softens you towards them as you pray for them.

Yes, yes, yes.

So it doesn't mean that you might agree with everything that they say or do, but it softens you to ask, how can I how can I help them see something different?

What's what's causing their pain?

Yeah.

The situation that that they want to say these things.

Yeah.

Well, for instance, what she's saying about uh single mums now, it's because of what happened with her son.

Yeah, because her son had a marriage, yeah.

Yeah.

And so she's taking uh championing uh the uh uh the husbands who are uh regarded as as at fault or who have lost out financially or things like that.

And that's why she's so so in a sense if we pray for someone, we pray we don't just sort of go in and say God changed their mind, but we we pray for the bigger thing of what's around them and what's happening.

Like so if we if we're praying for Russia, we shouldn't just be sort of dear God, I pray for I pray for this leader, we pray for a nation and we pray for the struggles of that nation.

And we pray for positive change for that nation.

And then we can go on to pray for Ukraine and we can pray for the struggles of that nation and and the hopes and changes.

Yeah, so it's not actually just well, gee, they're horrible God fixing.

We need to dig a bit deeper, don't we?

Yeah, I'll say, yes.

Yeah.

So the two things you got, I think were the same things that I got.

One, that we need to pray for the world and and for all people, but not just the people we like.

Yeah.

And I suppose that means sometimes getting over our bigotry or our our prejudice.

Our prejudice.

Like we need to step beyond that to actually see what God is looking at.

And I suppose that is exactly the same when it comes to praying for other leaders.

We we need to step beyond our prejudice, we need to step beyond what we think to sort of looking at it from God's world.

Yeah, I'll say.

Yeah.

And then all people when it got when it says all people, but I think we need to remind ourselves all people, not just the ones that I like.

Yes.

Yeah.

Are there any other things that you wanted to add to today's podcast?

No, I don't think so, Richard.

I think uh we've covered pretty well what I was thinking of.

It's a fairly simple pod it's a fairly simple passage this time round.

Um they might get a bit more complex as we go into one and two Timothy.

Yes.

But at this point in time it is a fairly simple message.

Yeah.

And and we need to be grateful that the church saved it and incorporated it in the New Testament in the canon.

Yeah.

That we have.

Yeah, because it because if you read it, it's the basics.

You know, here's the s here's the simple basics of faith.

Yeah.

Well, Dennis, there's a couple of things happening.

This coming Sunday, the 9th of August, is our congregational meeting.

Meeting, yes.

If anyone wants to ask any questions about our church and what we're doing and where we're going.

Um, and I think that's the primary that's the primary notice for the moment.

And it's Michael Young's 98th birthday.

Yeah, Michael Young is 98 on Sunday as well.

Yeah.

Yes.

He's got a birthday party going there.

I'll be able to pull out a lolly for him from the lollibox.

Um, yeah, and the other thing that I mentioned on Sunday was Brian Chapman.

Brian Chapman left a donation, and Rhonda also supported um in memory of Brian as well.

And so that's our new piece of play equipment that's up there.

Yeah.

It's a good nice memory to Brian.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, Dennis, thank you so much for talking to me today.

That's been a blessing.

And um, thank you, everyone.

This is a shortish one today, but we'll be back next week to continue looking at TUC Talks.

Right.

Bye.

Bye.