Leftovers - Romans 8:29-31

Happy Monday. We're back in on the ERC

Leftovers podcast. I'm Pastor Matt.

Pastor Chris is here despite, despite the airline's great

attempt to keep you in Florida. And Dom's here with us as well.

He brought the word the next part of our series on Romans 8

this past week versus 2930 and 31.

And yeah, he's here for us to grill him on.

Some more thoughts, feedback from the sermon this Sunday and

a couple more, couple more fun things along the way to Chris.

Brought some snacks, some treats.

We've got another segment this week.

We're going to check in on what Christendom throughout the

country is doing a little bit and yeah, hopefully have some

fun along the way. So thanks for tuning in to the

ERC leftovers here. What's going on, fellas?

Oh my gosh, yeah. I won't get into all the gory

details but flying over spring break with everything that's

going on in the world and trying to go to one of the most popular

destinations in America, AKA trying to fly in and in and out

of Orlando in different beach like areas, it's madness and I

will never do it again. Over spring break.

Never. So I don't care what conference

you put on what date, if it's over spring break and I have to

fly to Florida, I'm just not going.

Chris is out. I'm out.

I'm pissing out forever of all of that because it's just, it's

not going to happen. It was madness.

I spent over 20 hours in airports just waiting to be

bumped and rebooked and bumped and rebooked over and over

again. So do you think it was because I

mean TSA is technically shut down right now, right?

TSA was fine. I actually got through all the

security stuff easy. It was just like there's too

many planes trying to go too many places and there's not

enough runway and there's not enough access and there's not

enough everything. And so bump move, bump, move for

20 plus hours and forget it. I'm super done.

Wow. Yep.

Well, we we drove 1100 miles each way down to the coast, so I

that was a different experience. Well, you know what though?

You know what though? Your drives both there and back

faster. Oh yeah, flying.

They were, yes. So I mean, you know, put on a

good podcast, there's some music and get some snacks on the way.

By the way, the snacks you can get on the road infinitely

better than the snacks they give you on an airplane.

And like I just I, I just think it, it would be a better

experience and it would be far less expensive.

So it was all the things, just there was no redeeming part of

any of those. Well, not of the travel

portions, OK, You know, the the conference itself was it was

great. It was fine anyway, I don't go

too far into that. I don't want to like.

Tom, you were, you were in town for spring break, right?

You just chilled. The snow stayed.

Here I didn't have spring break. Oh, that's right, you still like

class. I wonder, were I given an

exchange? Somebody's like, hey, do all

this seminary work this week or go to those airports and live

that experience. I actually think I would have

taken the homework. You even had a better time with

the yeah. I think I would have.

I I wouldn't want to go through that traveling.

I'm I was happy staying here there you.

Go. There you go, that's that's the

win for. Dawn Well yeah I mean I heard

y'all got snow but I came back and there was still no snow like

when I left so. Oh, it's snowed.

And then four days later it was 80°, you know what I mean?

So I would be curious amongst all the people who listen to

this podcast, how many people looked at the weather like 2

days after we got that Blizzard and went, I'm not shoveling,

it's going to be gone in two days anyway because it got up to

like 60 in a hurry. Yeah, and I, I have been gone

sometimes and like tried to get my driveway taken care of.

I did not even look into it this week.

I was just like, this is gonna be gone so.

Yeah. Yeah.

All right. A couple things.

This week we're gonna try a new segment and hopefully get some

audience participation from you on this in the future too,

though I want to call it we're we're going to call it salty and

lit. And that sounds a little crazier

than it is, but what in in Our Calling to be salt and light on,

on the earth, to add difference to, to add flavor, to be set

apart in, in that way, light in the darkness and and salt in a

adding, adding variety and spice to a world that we're not

supposed to conform to do not conform to the pattern of the

world. We're going to call it segment

salty and lit and just check in. It's basically like.

What? What are those?

What are? Christians up to in in the world

in or, or in in America and there's been this children's

policy going around. Maybe y'all have seen it on on

social media, but it's it's basically this church laid out

this thing. They obviously got some sort of

complaint about disruptive kids in the service or loud kids in

the service or, or something like that and needed to hear

what their policy unloud kids in the church service was.

So they basically give a response of it's a four point

response. And, and the first one is if a

child is found making noise in the worship service, that family

should bring the child to church.

And, and point and .2 is if the child is disruptive, getting up

to go to the bathroom in the middle of the service, that

family should make sure their child comes to church And let

just like all, all four, all four of these things are just

like different ways that a kid would be disruptive.

And, and the bottom though, it was, it was kind of a spoof

policy. And I've seen it.

There was one church, I don't know what the original church

source is of this. I've seen it with different

letter heads and different church names, just basically

copying it and reposting the thing and, and doing it as their

own. But I just, I thought it was

funny to check in. And the conclusion after all

four of these points is we believe that the sound of kids

is the sound of a healthy church.

This is the church is the generation that that has been

the Saints that have gone before.

The church is the church is the people now.

And that's the that's the church future.

It is the they are the church now, but it's also the next

generation that we're raising up.

So that was their conclusion basically is like, Nope, bring

your kids where if they if they make noise, that's what kids do.

The point should be bringing the church.

Do that with your family and that's it.

So what do we think? You know what, I let me as

somebody who's raised kids, although I didn't necessarily, I

did raise them in the church because they were pretty young.

But like, The thing is like, OK, so I'll give you a great example

yesterday, I think, oh, we're, we're praying for the offering.

And I got two young men behind me like, you know, 4th, 5th ish

grade, somewhere in that ballpark.

And I know them very well. So like when we were starting to

pray, it was very easy for me. And they were by themselves,

their parents weren't with them. So I just, I just kind of turn

around and I just kind of tapped one on the leg gently and said,

Hey, we're praying. And then they quieted down.

And then when the band got going again, it was like, now they're

talking again and that's fine. That's fine.

They're doing, they're trading Pokémon cards or who knows what,

but it was fine. And The thing is like the other

thing I would say is like, yeah, as parents we do our best to

like, hey guys, like we got, we got to be quiet a little bit.

People are trying to listen, but like, you know, that's fine.

You just put forth your best effort as a parent and then you,

you, it's fine. It's fine.

Yeah, there does. When I get it, especially for, I

mean, maybe maybe students who don't have kids that are on

their own to deal with or or even young adults, adults who

don't haven't had children or don't currently have little

kids. Like obviously that is also a

large segment of the congregation, people who aren't

actively parenting little children.

That's the majority of people in church, right?

So like, I get it. I get how that's outside the

normal realm of, of things that you just encounter or, or deal

with on on the daily basis. But at the same time, like

people are bringing a lot of different stuff in in with them

at church, right? So to, so to say that the kids,

the distracting the, the loud kids or, or those things is the

thing that's like the deal breaker.

That's a little harsh for, for the people of God.

So I, I think it's funny. It's Mount Mount Washington

church is, is the one that I'm seeing.

I don't know if they're the original 1.

Like I said, it's been, it's been copied and redone.

But yeah, option one for dealing with loud kids, the family

should bring the kid. Option 2, the family should make

sure they bring the kid to church.

Option 3, the family is to see that the child is brought to

church. And option 4, the kid is

absolutely welcome and expected. Those are that's that's how

they're going to deal with loud kids at their church.

Well, think about this moment, OK, And you guys can speak into

it more, but think about this moment.

So the disciples are annoyed that there's little kids running

around just like church, right? There's little kids moving and

running around and and they're like, oh, Jesus is trying to

give this big important talk. And the disciples are like

shooing the kids away and just like, hey fool, bring those kids

back here. So like, what more do you need?

What what more evidence do you need?

Then Jesus is like, bring those quote UN quote annoying kids

that you're trying to push away. Bring them.

Bring them to me. I want them.

And I think that's, I think that's maybe the point that it

breaks for me. Like I don't want to use the

line of quote UN quote when when they should know better because

you can apply that to a lot of us even from even from your

message yesterday, like a lot of them.

You should have known better than just like accelerating like

a madman in reverse. So like, so like at some point,

like should have known better applies to all of us, but

especially in the in the in the context of kids who literally

don't know better. Like they just their brains

aren't even developed enough to be able to know better.

Right. Yeah, there's, there's got to be

grace there. The even the the older students

that you were talking about, like, yeah, they responded to,

Hey, this is we're actually we're here for I think we're,

we're here to pray, we're here to worship.

We're here to, we're here to be taught.

Like that's, that's what we're here for.

We want to have a conversation. We can we do that elsewhere

during the week. So yeah, I think I think there's

there's both and but especially as as the little ones in the in

the let the little children come to me spirit of Jesus, like,

yeah, that's we just want to be, we want to be a place where that

is kids are welcomed and expected and encouraged.

So yeah, I don't know. I just thought that was a funny,

funny thing that's going around in American Christendom right

now. The.

When from the perspective of someone like doesn't have kids

and even being up on stage with kids present, they were like

almost the cornerstone of like keeping me grounded in my own

message. Like oddly enough, like there

were little outbursts. You know, we had several younger

children who would cry or, you know, 3rd to 5th graders who are

kind of all over the place. But like, they kept me mentally

in it like these are, This is why I'm doing it.

Like these are the people that we're we're teaching and that

we're reaching with these messages, whether they're going

to remember this because they're three years old or not.

Like they do have a home here. And then we get to see the even

more special moments of like worship.

There's some songs. There have been songs on Sunday

mornings where even with my in ears in, even with all of the

things going on, the different instruments directly into my

ears, I can still hear the kids in the front row louder than I

can hear anything else in the room.

And like those moments are so special.

But you don't get those moments if you're if you're constantly

shooing the kids away, if you're constantly trying to hush them,

like bring them and give them an environment to to be kids.

They are still children. But also, yeah, I mean, we have

the directive of, OK, hey, right now we're praying like, let's

let's focus right here for 30 seconds to two minutes, however

long this prayer is going to go. But then we get those special

moments like in worship where, you know, they are loud, but

they're worshiping the same wonderful God that we're

worshiping. And you don't get that if you

don't have that kind of environment that you're

nurturing. Yeah.

Let me say one more thing which is pretty pointed, but I'll do

it anyway because it's Monday and I'm salty on Mondays often

times. Here's the thing.

If a child of whatever age cannot make it through a 25

minute talk without kind of being squirrely, guess what

adults also don't do? They don't make it through a 25

minute talk without losing attention.

And I, and I guarantee that's true.

Now, the only difference is at the heart, at the very core of

the thing, both are not paying attention for at least a short

period of time. Well, with adults, it's just

quietly not paying attention. They just have a better poker

face about it. But at the heart of the matter,

it's still the exact same thing. So like, let's just be really

honest about it and say that nobody pays attention for 25

minutes straight. Probably not, right?

And so like, just let's just call it what it is and that's

OK, That's OK. But parents, you do your best

and that's what you can do. That's what you can do, that's

all. Yeah, so that's this week's

reminder to be salt and light in the world.

Help us all say salty and lit. All right, And this will maybe

be our kicker to get video happening on this podcast

depending on how this segment goes because this is going to be

tough listener only content. But we hinted at this back on

the AMA a few weeks ago, and you brought, look at this, you

brought Doctor Pepper peeps. I did.

To the studio today. I got to, I got to, I got to

give a big shout out to Jake and Haley because they listen to the

podcast and they're like, we found Doctor Pepper peeps.

And those are the ones that apparently Pastor Chris will eat

or likes. So they were kind enough to

bring in an extra package. See, and and we're going to try

them live. And so let me open these things

up. So Matt, remind me, did you say

you don't like peeps at all or you do?

I don't like the current iteration of peeps.

I feel like they've changed and I feel like they're terrible.

Look at these guys. They're like this, like kind of

nice reddish burnt color. Awesome.

OK, love this so much. Here you go Dom, you get the

first one. So yeah, we're going to do a, a,

a Peeps for your, for your Easter candy needs coming up in,

in two weeks, we'll review the, the Peeps Dr. Pepper here as

only 3 middle-aged men can. Yeah.

OK, so hands super sugary and sticky, just trying to RIP these

things apart. Kristen would always, she would

say go for the eyeballs first because she's going to not eat

these in one bite. She's going to eat the head and

then. Sure, she does the head first.

I Yeah, OK. I'll follow.

I'll follow the. All right, OK, this is really

good listening, listening content, listening to us chew

these Doctor Pepper Peeps. Oh, man.

OK, well, off them, off the jump.

The flavor, the flavor is great. Right there's they nailed the

Doctor Pepper flavor in this little sugar dust stuff.

Maybe I was just a naive, I don't know, rainbow eyed kid

looking, looking at Peeps is the greatest thing in the world.

I still feel like the marshmallow is very stale, like

it's not a high quality marshmallow in here.

I don't know man, the marshmallow is way softer on

these then I OK, so I did try a butter beer peep when I was in

Florida. Wow.

Because you know, the Universal Studios, Harry Potter, the whole

thing. So I tried one of those and that

marshmallow was like painfully stale.

This is still really soft and you're 100% correct.

It tastes just like Doctor. Pepper.

They nailed the the flavour dust I think.

See my problem is I'm not a Doctor Pepper fan to begin, but

I will say like these are edible, they're tolerable.

Like I wouldn't necessarily shy away from them, but I don't

know. Still not.

I'm not. My favorite?

I'm not sold. Well, after the show I am going

to deliver one to Kristen and see what she thinks.

All right, OK, that'll. Unless you want me to drag her

in here, right? Now that would be funny.

We could. We could.

Let's do a. Last I'm going to go get her.

I'll be back just. For a minute OK before before we

get to Kristen here and I again once again apologize for how

good this audio only content is, but maybe yeah, maybe that'll be

our kick in the pants to get some video going here so you can

watch the watch the witness of this.

But once again down man just I, I introduced you differently at

the second service and it was it was it was great I I I I

introduced you as not terrible at the second service and I I

did I you you handled it so well.

I I I like immediately foot and mouth regretted like that.

I just let the ticker tape of my consciousness just, like, spill

out. And.

But you rolled into it so well, you just, yeah, you didn't faze

you at all. And.

I honestly, I think that the second intro, like immediately

settled me in more like, because it was all right.

Like everything's off the table now.

Like it's all out there. Oh man, Kristen's here just

popping in quick. You'll never know what you get

on a Monday surprise. And I'm sure this is how you

wanted to start your day too, with a nice Doctor Pepper peep.

So First off, are you? You're not really a soda person

in general at all. So you're not a Doctor Pepper?

I mean, it's, it's, it's something I'm getting used to.

I try the Doctor Pepper. OK.

I dabble in the Doctor. All right, if you know how to

bring some temptation to Kristen's life, it's offer a

doctor Pepper and see if she cracks so so, but I feel like

you are the like resident peep championer of of the office, so

I do. I like the peeps we all hated on

them last time we did. I even decorated for Easter and

I have I realized I have a peep collar for the dog like yes and

I got a night light. A peep Night light.

It's a Is it a Bunny? It's a Bunny.

He's he's so cute and he glows all yellow.

I want them in all the colors. All right.

Oh my God. OK, I'm done with questions.

I have more questions. I'm just going to this is.

This is why you don't bring me in on Monday.

All right, so let's let's see in your as the resident peep expert

here these. Are not crunchy, you hate you

hate it on a bottom. Line still felt like they were

still a little stale, but really.

OK, so that's just like, oh man. Definitely, definitely got that

soda flavor. Yeah.

No. So you're OK with the

marshmallow quality? That was my one nut.

I think the flavor is spot on. I still feel like the

marshmallow is stale. No, this is what they taste

like. OK, so I was just wrong.

I just, I like peeps. When I was a kid I thought that

was marshmallows. Just tastes like and there's

just better marshmallows. Than no the Doctor pepper is

like a little off putting because it does taste like

doctor pepper. It's like the Jelly Bean thing.

I still think somebody are these going to be available?

Not no, they're not available. I need to stash some now for

like summer bonfire. I do still want to try to like

marshmallow roast one of these. I think that would be perfection

because then you can't really tell.

You can't tell if this marshmallow is stale because

it's melty. It's not stale.

Matt's a hater. I feel like there's still some

crunch to that marshmallow. Oh my goodness, the outside is

supposed to be kind of crispy. That's good.

The sugar part. Yeah, yeah, the inside was all

pillowy. So, so soft.

OK, now I'm going to have to go eat more.

But not Doctor Pepper. OK, no, OK, we got Kristen

hooked on Peeps now. Peeps and Peeps and Doctor

Pepper. It's my first separately.

It's my first one of the season. I had willpower up until now.

Thanks a lot, guys. Oh, my goodness.

All right. Wide open.

Thanks, Kristen. Oh man.

As always, starting out hot and fast on a Monday morning.

You are welcome, church. All right, let's dive into our

passage sermon text for this weekend.

We only have two more weeks after this.

In Romans 8, we really kind of milked, I feel, I feel like

we've been in almost the same cluster of verses for like 3 or

4 weeks. Yeah, we we've been inching

forward by like 2 or 3 verses. But there's lots of there's lots

of ties like from the late teens in, in, in chapter 8, those

verses to like where we are. And now I feel like this passage

right here is almost the hinge to the to the rest of the

chapter like that. This is the connecting few

verses for Paul. Again, this chapter is really

just like one big run on sentence but yeah, he's these

these verses are hinging what he said to the the therefore's that

that follow or the reasons that follow in the rest of the

chapter here. So Romans 8 we were in verses

2930 and 31 just three verses for those God foreknew.

He also predestined to be conformed to the image of his

son that he might be the first born among many brothers and

sisters and those who predestined he also called those

he called he also justified those who justified he also

glorified. What then shall we say in

response to these things? If God is for us, who can be

against us? Romans 829 through 31.

I thought you did a really good job, Dom, of framing you did,

you did the kind of behind the curtain thing with the three

points. You gave us the road map of

where you're going. I thought you ended really

strong with the with the application part.

Like how how then do we do this sort sort of thing?

What was there anything that you feel like you just didn't

elaborate as much on as as you would have liked to just maybe

because of time, time constraints or just this didn't

fit the thrust of where I ended up?

What? What do you think?

Yeah, I mean, it was, it was a difficult time putting this

together. Just I, I knew I wanted to bring

on the, the context of spiritual warfare because it's a very real

thing and it kind of gets brushed over a lot.

I feel like we reference it from time to time, but do we really

ever take a deep dive into how do we, how do we fight?

Like how do we fight knowing that God is for us?

And what does that even truly mean in this, this chain that I

talked about this this golden chain that it was referenced as

you know, for new and predestined, I didn't really get

to get into what this means. Like this isn't just God knowing

about you ahead of time. It's God setting his love on you

ahead of time. And you know, when Paul says for

new, I don't think he, he means God had information about us

ahead of time in Scripture. To know someone is, is more

relational and personal, not just a knowing of.

So in this context, it's really saying God set his love on you

beforehand. He set his love on his people

beforehand, which I think to me in my study of this text, like

brought that to light a little bit more of like, OK, it's not

just the fact that he knew me. He knew that he created me.

He knew that I was one of millions and billions of his

children. It's more personal.

It's more relational. He has that loving connection.

And before I even made the decision to love him back, he

still loved me. Yeah, yeah.

And that touches on, there's a big word in this passage,

obviously. And I mean, a lot of times you

jump into this passage and teach on predestination and what that

is and what that isn't. And you didn't do much of that

yesterday, really, at least not you did, but not in a topical

sermon on predestination sort of way.

You taught on predestination and how it is in, in the Lutheranism

sphere that we that we live in. There's that there's a key

phrase in the the last part of that verse that he predestined

and and a lot of the times people just take that

predestined and chop that off right there.

But there's a remainder of verse 29.

He predestined to be conformed to the image of his son like

it's it's all that idea. That's what God predestined,

right believers to be sanctified, to be holy as I am

holy in light of what Jesus has done right.

Not not that not that we can earn it, but that we are now

clothed in his righteousness. That's what he predestined, that

we would be conformed to the image of his son.

So I thought I thought you did that really well yesterday

without again calling that out as like this is what

predestination means. I don't think it's necessary in

this particular text to spend 25 minutes talking about

predestination, because you know what Paul doesn't do?

If you're being honest to the text and you're exegeting it

properly, this is not where that happens.

No, no, if you want to, if you want to have a sermon on

predestination, there are other more clear spots where the Bible

would lead you to talk about that specifically.

This is not that spot. Right, this is not about

predestination. It's not about predestination as

a topic. Uses that word here.

Yep, and that's a fine word to use, especially in that chain of

four new predestined and conformed.

And that's a off if anything else.

And I think we talked about this before you preached because it

was like, hey man, there's a couple different paths we could

take here. We could talk about spiritual

warfare, we could talk about this chain and how that actually

like works itself out in the Christian believer and all that

kind of stuff. But I think like the chain and

then what happens because of that chain that God is doing all

the activating in? That's that's the topic really.

When the the key thing is like the passage isn't trying to make

you question your salvation. It's it's trying to anchor it.

So the, the idea and I, I said it on Sunday as well as you

know, you're not the one holding your relationship with God

together. He is we, we are active

participants in that relationship.

But like that chain is being held together by God himself at

all times. So, so it's not on us like all

that pressure that we feel we, we have to, we have to live the

right way. We have to make the right

decisions. We have to pray enough to have

that relationship with God. He's holding it together.

We get to participate in that and and pursue a loving

relationship with him, but he's ultimately the one holding it

together, not us. You know what's funny?

So he, an illustration just came into my brain because I watch

far too many superhero movies. But in every, it's inevitable.

In every Spider Man iteration, there's going to be a moment

where he webs one side to one thing, one side to the other,

and he's being stretched and he's being pulled trying to stop

something from happening. Like most famously, I think is

the first set of Spider Man movies where he's trying to stop

the train and he's webbed on either side and he's like, you

know, holding it together and he's holding it together.

And we would imagine maybe in our faith sometimes that that's

us as that character, like squeezing and trying so hard to

hold everything together, our faith, whatever.

And it's like, no, that's Jesus in the middle holding all of

these pieces together. So you're absolutely right.

And that's a great observation. And where I preach in it and had

I thought about that? That's the.

Illustration. I thought it would.

Have used SO. There you go, Jesus is spider

man. No, in that particular.

Moment. That's not what you said.

Spider Man is acting as the savior character.

So. See, there you go.

That's that's the nerd in me. Theology.

Man strikes again. Theology.

Man strikes again with spider man webs.

Let's go. Morris from the Enduring Word

commentary puts this reflection on that passage quote Paul is

saying that God is the author of salvation, that from beginning

to end we are not to think that God can take action only when we

graciously give him permission. It's not all the and you did a

really good job. All these things are linked

together. You talked about that chain.

This isn't a it's not a checklist of things, right?

That you were for new. So now, OK, so now you can be

predestined because you're predestined, you're caught.

Those things work together, but you guys are saying it's not a

OK, I achieved this on to the next thing.

These are all working in harmony in tandem together, and it's God

who laid out this, this process of things, right?

And why did he do that? And he tells us in the same

verse in order that that is the great, you know, in order that

he being Jesus, might be the first born among many brothers.

OK, so because God has done this, Jesus and his sacrifice,

it creates him as the Genesis, the beginning of all of these.

There are all these people being brought into God's family as

brothers and sisters in Christ and we are all justified because

Jesus did it. And so there you go, you.

We don't even have to wait a single a single verse.

He tells us right in that verse, right in 29.

This is why. That brings us to 31 and kind of

this. This is an uncomfortable verse

in some ways. I think if God is for us, who

can be against us? That sounds like a really

freeing promise. But I've also known people and

know people who can't really reconcile this idea.

If, if I've wronged God, how can he be for me?

Wouldn't, wouldn't his default position to now be offended and

defensive and even a little like retributionary?

Because because that's how I would be if someone, if someone

wronged me, I would, I wouldn't like that person.

I would not, I would not be on their side, right?

Like that's in our sinful humanity.

That's how we respond. But that's not how grace works,

right? Which is, which is where that

breaks down. Like just because we wouldn't

respond that way doesn't mean God doesn't respond that way,

right. And it's also to, to take that a

step further. I mean, if we're being conformed

to the image of a son, there's, there's challenge there then for

us to be for those brothers and sisters that even even have

wronged us, right. Like that.

That's also the response of grace in our lives for others,

right. Wow, sorry.

I, I, I, I read a book over spring break and I'm attaching

like all the, all the grace things to a lot, which makes

sense. It's there's grace everywhere in

the Bible. But like that's what I heard

yesterday too. And our, our life group, we had

a lot of a lot of discussion on this verse in particular too,

and kind of the baggage that comes with us and even how some

people like, aren't we skeptical?

Like if God is for us, who can be again?

But like, what's the catch? Like there's, there's a lot of

people that are this sounds, this sounds too good to be true,

right? That there's nothing for me to

do or earn or keep. Yeah, that's that's grace.

Like that's what it is. Yeah, right.

I think it's also a problem of we try too often to give God

human features in human aspects. Like, yeah, if I'm wronged, like

yeah, I'm, I'm not going to be happy or understanding of that

person. But again, God is, is not human.

God doesn't have those same attachments to those emotions.

Like he's not holding this stuff over us.

Like, oh, how you remember that time you did this, You remember

that time you said this, You remember that time you walked

away from me? Like, no, he doesn't hold those

things above us because he is above us.

Like he's, he's greater than our understanding.

And I think it's OK at times to, to try and understand it as a

human and, and, and make it understandable at a human level.

Devil. But also, this is the God of the

universe. Like he doesn't play by the same

rules as us. He doesn't have the same

attachments to emotions that we do.

He, he is so loving and so gracious that no matter what we

do, when we turn, when we repent and we go back to him and ask

for forgiveness, it's not just that we're forgiven.

Those things are forgotten. It has moved on.

We have gone past that. He does not hold that to you

anymore. He doesn't hold that over your

head anymore. He moved on, so we get to move

on. Yeah, good gravy, man.

Wow. Preach it.

You know what? You know what's interesting?

I'm and I agree with everything you said, but here's how we know

that we are so deeply loved because you are 100% correct

that God is not bound by the by those kind of emotional things

that we are. But then again, Jesus Christ,

100% God, 100% man experiences all those things as a human, but

still 100% God. And So what happens is, and I've

heard it said this way, God was strong enough to take his own

medicine. So in other words, we look at

Jesus Christ and we look at the hardship that he endured

emotionally, physically, and everything in between.

And we say, wow, OK, so it's not just God who's greater and above

us and maybe above those kind of fleeting emotions that we have.

No, he was willing enough to take his own medicine, that he

took on all of those things in himself, in his physical human

body, all whilst still being perfectly loving, perfectly

gracious, perfectly just. And then after a perfectly just

and righteous life, he still dies for us.

He takes his own punishment at the cost of his own life,

therefore perfectly justifying us even though we mess up all

the time. Beautiful.

Love it. Oh my gosh.

Because then the other side of that, there's there's the this

is too good to be true camp. And then there's the there's

kind of the cheap grace side of it too, Like how how much do we

stray to? Well, Paul would write what that

should we shall we go on sitting so that grace can increase by no

means right I. Love that by no means right.

So that's that's the other side of it sounds too good to be

true. It sounds like a then it sounds

like a exploitable get out of jail free card loophole sort of

thing, right, too. And that's not what we're that's

not what we're called to. We're we're called to obedience,

faithfulness. We're called to that discerning

that voice of truth to I thought that was great that you were

like, do you know, do you know the truth well enough to be able

to tell what a lie is? That was that was excellent at

at the end, your and your actionable takeaways of, of how

to fight and that we that we don't fight alone.

God, God is for us has already won.

Like the you're, you're, you're right.

We're already we're playing a game that the outcome has

already been decided of of this fight.

We sang a lot about that yesterday and A and a couple

different songs. I wanted to get to.

You talked about bringing things to the light.

Yes, you you talked about fighting in the light rather

than darkness and you talked about isolation, how that's

that's one of the top tools of the enemy.

And I wanted it was so hard because there's so many things

there's time constraints there's you want to give like when when

you're doing an application part, you don't want to lean too

heavily on like, OK, this is the fit.

You don't want to like do a diatribe on one of them and then

just like bullet point the other ones either.

I and maybe it's just where I'm at right now to it just in

whatever in in my faith development, faith maturity or

even just consciousness right now isolation.

I is just like such on the forefront of of my mind.

And I'm not calling out like I'm not calling out introverts as as

that or anything. It can happen to any introvert,

extrovert, seasoned Christian, baby Christian like it or non

Christian like I I just you can even get into in into politics

and divided factions of things like that's the enemy wants to

create division and and at the extreme point that is isolation

like that, like that's the most divided thing, right?

Is, is us in isolation. And I think that manifests in a

lot of ways. There's there's lies that the

sins that we have or struggle with that only we could be as an

individual could be so terrible as to as to have gone those like

no one else could understand or know or experience or have done

these things. And the enemy likes to corner us

in that way. When in reality, there's a lot

of people around you that can like share the same struggles

and shortcomings that you have. Right.

So you touched on, you touched on a little bit of like, who who

knows what, where you're really at.

Wasn't that your question was like who, who in your life knows

where you're really at? And I wanted to just, I wanted

us to have a little bit of an application conversation with

that. Like what is, what does that

look like? Because that's discipleship,

that's accountability. That's that's as iron sharpens

iron. So one person sharpens another,

one man sharpens another. I don't want to make light of

that verse, but it applies. It applies to women too.

It's not just a manly man verse as as iron sharpens iron.

That's how Christians should be in relationships.

So like just wanted to pick your guys's brain on what does that

look like practically? How do you how do you share

those things on the other side? How do you as a Christian, how

do you receive those things well from others in in grace and not

in judgement? How do, how do you kind of craft

yourself as a, as a safe outlet for these things?

Because I think that's a big part of the isolation too.

And it's, it's where we run into these struggles with God.

Like how, how could God be for me?

I, I, I acted straight against him that even bringing a

struggle to another person. It's like, what if they think

I'm a monster? What, Well, like how, how could,

how could I bring this to them? I assume they're going to judge

me for this. I assume they're going to think

less of me for this. But it's a it's a process

outlined in the buttwood for not supposed to be isolated.

So like, how does this look practically?

I think one of the most important things is, I mean, you

have to have key people around you that are deep, meaningful

relationships when it comes to Christ.

Like you can't exactly just go find somebody on the street or

even necessarily somebody in the church that you know, who knows

you but doesn't truly know you and just kind of like trauma

dump on them and be like, Hey, like, help me with this.

It's it's intentionality of you have to be, I mean, if you're

not in a life group, dude, like that is, that is where these

type of relationships start to get built.

And there's conversations, I don't know how your guys life

groups go every week, but there's conversations where it

gets heavy, it gets hard. Like some, some things come to

light in those spaces because we have that intentional

relationship of, hey, we have this safe space.

We all know that we deal with and struggle with slightly

different things. Some of us have struggled with

the exact same things and it's so easy.

Isolation was one that was really hard for me to not dive

into because it's something that I've struggled with personally

as well. Like I'm very much of the

mindset, these guys have something going on.

I don't want to add to that. I don't want to throw that on

their plate. They have their own struggles,

they have their own issues, they have families, they have

friends. Like I don't want to throw that

on them. But building these type of

relationships have shown me that there are people, even if it's

not the whole group, even if it's one person or three people

that you feel comfortable enough to share these things with and,

and they are willing and able to receive them without judgment,

without, you know, thinking you're a horrendous person.

Like whatever the topic of conversation is, it's important

to have those cornerstones in your life because if you don't

have those, who are you, who are you able to talk those things

through with? You can bring them to God.

Ideally you bring them to God and, and lay them at his feet

and see what he has in store. But also as humans, we need that

human connection. We need to talk it through.

We need to have that conversation and with other

people, that's sometimes a little bit easier because you'd

be surprised that at when you get to a certain point in the

conversation, hey, I've been really struggling with this.

I've been really, really struggling with with staying

focused in this aspect aspect of my life.

OK, well, maybe that same person that you're talking to had that

same struggle 6 months ago, two years ago, five years ago.

And now they're able to to shine a little more light into your

life of hey, this is the direction I took.

This is what worked for me. This is what helped.

Like if you need a weekly check in, like I'm happy to be that

person. Yeah, and you touched on it a

little bit. I think part of where this

starts is the is the David Psalm 51 sort of thing like Lord

against you and you alone have I sinned.

That's a wild thing to say in in the fallout of committing an act

of adultery, a baby on the way and like having murdered his

mistress's husband in in an act of war as essentially like for

him to come to God and be like against you and you alone.

Have I sinned crazy to say, but also like he needed to bring

that to God because it was God's precepts that he broke right.

It was it was God's truth that he brought down.

So I think fighting isolation like even before I agree with

everything you said the the mat bearers is what is what Joby

Martin would say. Do you have do you have these

four guys that would carry you guys or girls that would that

would carry you when you can't walk that would carry you to the

feet of Jesus for for him to work a miracle in you like The

Who, who are who are the people that are alongside you in in

those things whose faith is strong enough to to carry you

right even before you go to those people.

Have you brought it to God? Does he know all things?

Yes. Does he know?

Does he know how you're struggling?

Does he know? But have you brought that to God

and against you and you alone Have I sinned?

Have you earnestly been like God, I've fallen short.

I can't I don't want this. Why does Paul would write?

Why do I do the things I don't want to do right?

Have you gone to God first with that?

Have you have you let him know that you know how how you've

been short even before you've gone to another person?

I, I think it, I think it needs to start with that and then I, I

think you're right. And I know there might be some

people listening or some people that you know, in your life that

are like, well, I don't, I don't have those people that I can

trust with whatever that I can trust with these heavy things.

You got to get some. You got to, you got to find some

like at our bassist part. The first thing that God said

that was not good in the whole Bible was for man to be alone,

right? And he didn't create woman as

like just someone for Adam to shoot the breeze with.

Like it wasn't just, it wasn't just that it was the, the actual

act of isolation was not good for, for Adam to have.

And that was the first thing that God was like, Nope, we got

to change this. So yes.

Does that happen through life groups?

That's that's one of the mechanisms that we that we try

to set up here. Beyond that, though, can you get

wise, good, faithful counsel from people that aren't in your

life group? Yeah, you can.

Do you need to be pretty discerning and know where

they're at in their faith? Yeah.

Beyond that, at thinking about those like who are the receivers

of these things? How do we church as as a people,

be gracious receptors of of these burdens?

Like how do you identify and communicate as as a safe landing

spot for someone who is apprehensive about these things?

How do you communicate an openness of hey, this is a this

is a judgement free zone and that I say that I don't want to

make light of how Jesus received people's burdens because I don't

want to say theology man, you got to check me out this.

I'm thinking of the woman at the well, Jesus called her out

saying you're right and saying you don't have a husband.

You in fact have 5 right? And that was that sounds harsh.

I don't think there was judgement and he was just

calling a spade a spade, right? He, he was just saying, no, this

is, this is your reality and it's not in alignment with God's

truth. Your move like like that's,

that's and, and to me, that's not judgement.

That might feel like judgement to some people, but that's also

just, that's just truth. If you're convicted by truth,

that doesn't, that doesn't imply judgement, right?

That doesn't need to. It could bear judgement, but it

doesn't have to bear judgement. How do people heal?

It's a great question. James answers that the half

brother of Jesus. He answers that in James 516

where it says, therefore confess your sins to one another and

pray for one another that you may be healed.

OK, So wow, that's a that's a big thing.

So sometimes I think we often wonder like, man, it feels like

I've told God, I've been honest with God and I don't feel healed

from this burden. I don't, you know, And it's

like, well, gosh. First John 19 tells us that as

we confess our sins to God, he's faithful and Justin forgives us

of all of our sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

That is true, God taking away our sins, but there is also the

human element of feeling healed or actually literally being

healed in some cases. But there's a process that

doesn't happen until there is confession.

And because the one thing I would say, and I've felt this

before and I'll do a little Doctor Phil in a second, I'll

tell you why I felt it. The thing is, like you might

say, why do I have to confess my sins to people?

I already confess my sins to God, so I'm good, right?

You are good in terms of the fact that, yeah, God has

forgiven you of all of your sins.

But do you want to be healed? Because that's what the Bible

says. Do you want to be healed?

Do I want to be healed of this nagging grief, of this nagging

thing? Do I want to be?

Is there a physical healing that I need?

Well, the Bible gives a way to do that.

Confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that

you might be healed. So I'll tell you why I was that

person saying, hey, I already confessed my sins, God, why do

I? Because there's shame, because

there's shame involved in confession sometimes.

And So what I have learned over the years of spending time in

men's groups and with mixed groups and all these kinds of

things is that typically it just takes one person to open up the

floodgates, just one person. So if one brave person can be

honest in that space and say, hey, I'm going to lay it out for

you. Here's what here's what I've

done, here's what I struggle with.

All of a sudden, and it may not be everybody because everybody's

on kind of a different timeline for that.

But all of a sudden it creates an emotional vulnerability where

like now we can actually have a real conversation and we can

actually have real talk about this is my area of struggle.

So I would tell you, I say all this and you'll be like, well, I

don't hear you talking about that on Sunday.

Well, here's the thing. I was once told don't preach in

your underwear. In other words, that Sunday's.

Yeah, that's solid. That's a Dave VM.

That's a Dave VM quote, doctor Dave VM, long time president of

our seminary. Yep, it's a good one.

It's my confirmation pastor. Don't, yeah, don't breach in

your underwear. And what do you mean by don't

preach in your underwear? Is that it just keeps saying it.

But what he means by that little phrase is that that Sunday

sermon time is not there for my personal confession time.

It's not my the the congregation is not like my group to just

drama dump on. That's not the appropriate time.

But I do have people in my life select people who it's like, I

know I can go to you and I know I can be safe and I know you'll

pray for me when I admit these things.

My wife is one of them, which I think your spouse should be able

to be one of them. But every once in a while, I

suppose there are topics that even feel a little sketchy to

talk to your spouse about. We'll find a friend, find a

friend who you can honestly confess to so that you can be

healed. It's really important.

And if I had known that earlier in my Christian walk, I wouldn't

have stumbled so many times. And it's really hard because a

lot of the time you can feel like, I feel like we can line up

a laundry list of excuses for that.

Can you read in James 516 again? Yep.

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one

another that you may be healed. So what's not in there are the

excuses. This is just a process towards

healing. It doesn't say confess your sins

unless you have generational baggage.

It doesn't say confess your sins unless your shame is

overwhelming. It doesn't say confess your sins

unless you've done something unthinkable.

Like there's no, there's no caveats, there's no, no this for

all of those things, for all of those things that are possibly

holding you back from bringing these things to the light.

This is the answer. Confessing them, bringing them

to those, those iron sharpens iron people in your life,

praying over them. That's where healing comes,

right? Absolutely.

And it's funny bringing that to the light that's made.

I don't remember a lot of my sermons Funny, but I don't but

that stuff about bringing. Bringing the things to the

light. That's right.

I'm sorry. That was right there.

That was right there. Glad I could help you.

Make fun of me. Dom's just upstage in us both.

I know it's just I got to get back on stage so I can feel.

Good but I'm preaching this week.

I've not preaching 5 weeks. I know.

Listen, listen, guy, you better warm up.

It's been a while. It has been going to come out

cold anyway. Oh my gosh, where is it?

Oh, that's where I was going. So during Christmas, Christmas

Eve, a lot of that, a lot of those ideas were built around

bringing things to the light. Because The thing is, I can't be

healed in darkness. I can't be healed in isolation.

And so yes, you are 100% right. This text is 100% right.

We have to be willing to be brave enough.

And how do I, how do I get, how do I become brave enough?

Oh, that's right. It all goes back to the gospel.

So if I know in my heart of hearts that Jesus has paid for

all of my sins and my future tells me I am with him in

perfection forever, what then? Do I have to fear a person's

opinion? Nope, maybe not Don't care.

And so then, then again, I, I, it creates some sense of bravery

to encourage, to be able to say, you know what, even if you don't

accept this, or even if I swung and missed, you weren't the

person I, I should be having this intimate kind of confession

with. Guess what?

I'm still OK because I'm still saved by the blood of the lamb.

Therefore you can't knock my identity.

You're not going to hurt me. What are you going to do?

Go tell 5 people that I made this confession to you, sweet,

because I did those things. And guess what?

Still saved by the blood of the lamb.

Still awesome. So good, so good, Dom, anything

else to close us out with? What about the oh, what about

the Triple M if? Dom had.

To give Dom, if you had to give like a a 92nd, this is what you

should take from the sermon mirror Mortal Monday, I think

is. Mere mortal Monday.

Yeah, So what do us mere mortals take from your lofty biblical

words? I just say, you know, when

you're stepping into spiritual battle, it's a reminder that

you're not stepping in it alone. You're stepping in it with the

people around you, but you're also stepping into it with God

already on your side. It's, you know, I broke it down

into, into 3 movements. You know, first your identity is

settled before the battle even begins.

So Paul lays out that whole chain for known, predestined,

called, justified and glorified. And the point is that your

relationship with God isn't fragile.

And then second, you go into the battle is very real.

I mean, it's a very real thing. We we can avoid it.

We can not want to partake in it as much as we want, but it's

still there. And but Paul says who can be

against us? You know, he's not saying no one

is against us. He's saying that no one against

us can ultimately win. Yeah.

So there, there is real opposition, but you know, and a

lot of times it's, it's subtle, it's little lies, accusations,

you know, that don't necessarily bring you to confession, but to

shame into hiding in isolation like we talked about.

But then we get to turn the corner and, and the turning

point is really that we don't fight alone.

You know, this, this text can feel really heavy when you take

it from this angle of, of spiritual warfare.

But then the ending, you know, we get to turn that corner of

not fighting it alone. If God is for us, that changes

everything. That's so good.

It means you're you're, you're not in a fair fight.

That was my that was my personal favorite take away from it is

from my study even is that we're not in a fair fight.

It's not US versus our sin. It's not US versus Satan in

temptation. It's us and the God who created

all things, who already won. He already has the ultimate

victory, and He's fighting and standing next to us through any

and all of our struggles. That's it.

Gravy. That's it.

It's. Like we're holding an atom bomb

and the enemy is just balling up his tiny little fists and it's

like, come on man, what are we doing this?

You're right, it's not a fair fight.

First round knockout done love. It that's so good.

Thanks for hanging with us today, Dom.

Appreciate you bringing the word the past couple weeks and yeah,

we'll we'll have you back for sure blessings on the rest of

your studies for the rest of the semester and we'll see you

around. You're not going anywhere.

No. Thank you.

Thanks for hanging with us this week, Church.

If you have suggestions or things you'd like us to respond

to for Salty and Lit segment, just things going around

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