Pour out your life to God

G'day everyone! This is TUC Talks again for this week.

Terrible Uniting Church Talks, fabulous name.

I warm to it, no end.

Um, and we are talking today about the reading from Sunday, the 6th of December.

And look, it is a fascinating little reading.

Um, can I say, as I've said on church on Sunday, I am so pleased that I'm finishing one and two Timothy.

They were hard work to preach on.

But this week was 2 Timothy 4, 6 to 18.

Um, and the person that I'm speaking to today is Sue Scott.

Welcome, Sue.

Thank you, Richard.

Sorry.

The Reverend Sue Scott.

It is excellent, excellent to speak to you today.

Um now, Sue, what did you think?

Do you now do you have as it's as challenging to speak about as I did, or did you find it actually a bit interesting to dig into today?

Well, I did find I I always find Paul a little bit challenging.

Yes.

He can be very intense.

He's not a gentle character, isn't he?

No.

And um he has a lot to say, and he has some really good things to say, and that we can learn from.

But I do find that sometimes his intensity um a little overwhelming, which makes me think about the people who he was journeying with.

Yeah.

So the reading this week, there were sort of three movements, I think, in the reading this week.

The first one was that he's poured everything out section.

The second part was all these people that had left him and abandoned him, and can you please bring my coat with you?

And then the last bit was this, but God stood with me in my trial.

I th I saw it in those three phases.

I think we probably might just talk our way through those three phases if that's sounds good to me.

The first part pouring himself out.

How how did you read that section?

I think it's almost like I have done what I came to do.

I don't know that I've got much left in me.

Yeah.

Not there's not much left in the tank.

For me, one of the things I loved the words that he gave there of sort of I have poured myself out, I've fought the good fight, run the race, and and my end is near.

I I liked what he was saying because I actually think it it showed he had given everything.

Oh, it that was the hallmark of who Paul was.

He was absolutely passionate in giving of himself.

Oh, yes, tenacious, one could say.

Yeah.

And and he and one of the things that I picked up in it is that he if you want to actually if you want to live life to the fullest, you've got to give everything.

You know, you can't Yeah.

Look, the quote that I gave, Fuzz Kiddo, one of my good friends, um used that quote of if some people tiptoe through life just to reach death safely.

And I actually think Fuzz is a fantastic example because he's one of the key advocates for anti-slavery in Australia.

And like he gives everything into that cause.

Yeah, I saw him interviewed recently, and I just thought, what a wonderful cause to be associated with that we hear, don't hear enough about, but I love the passion and the commitment to continue to working for those who are doing it tough.

And for Fathers, I think you would have that confidence that if I die in this process, I'm dying doing something that is one for God and two is worth dying for.

Yes.

You know, do you have something?

And I suppose that's one of the questions for me in my life and my ministry.

Is there something that I am prepared to throw myself into that is greater than me?

I think that entering into ministry for me as a more mature person came out of a calling of deep sadness about how a section of our society was being treated.

Yes.

And I wanted to actually, my calling was about them.

Yeah.

And wanting to do more.

And and I've felt, you know, and I still do feel very passionate about that area of life, working with people with different disabilities and who've fallen out of the mainstream, who are often on the what I call the scrap heap of life.

Yeah.

And like for me, ministry is about, I am it is something that is bigger than me.

Like the church and God and ministry is far greater than me.

Yes.

And and I will pour myself into this because I am giving myself to something that is that I play a part in, that I it is not all about me.

Absolutely.

And we have to I've had people question me saying, but isn't there a selfish motive in doing what you do?

And and and I say, Well, I believe this is what I'm called to do.

I don't think it will necessarily be an easy pathway.

And I could probably get a job paying more money doing something else.

But this is a pathway I choose to go.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

It does make sense.

And I think that asking of the question, is there a selfish motive to it?

Yeah.

Is an interesting one because I gain so, so much from ministry.

Like it is a beautiful gift to me.

Yes.

As I pour myself into it.

But if it but if it's all about you, like if it if it becomes all about you, then your ego takes it, takes over, and you're not doing things for God.

Right.

You know, so Paul, in a sense, he's saying, I'm doing this for God, I will pour myself into this and live this fully.

And it's not it's not about you.

It's not about me.

No, no.

Yeah.

My wife says that to me regularly, by the way.

Richard, it's not all about you, you know.

I know.

And we have to.

I I think that's where part of being a community is really good because we have our accountability, we have others around there to remind us of our journey.

Whether we're the minister or uh sitting in the chairs on Sunday, we we need to be reminded all the time that God calls us and will equip us and enable us.

And I felt that part of my calling was to enable others, particularly those who were unable to speak up for themselves.

Yes.

And I think yes, we we're we play our part in God's mission.

We're not I I I don't pretend that I was anything fantastic, but I was doing what I was called to do, and we do it faithfully or as faithfully as we can.

Yeah.

And so for that's uh for me, that's what Paul is saying here.

I I I don't know why he is saying he's reaching the end of his life in this letter.

It really intrigues me.

Is it because the court case that he references at the second half of today's passage is a court case that could have the death sentence attached?

Well, I don't know.

He mentions Alexander the Copper Smith did him great harm.

Yes.

So do does that mean physical harm, or does it mean emotional.

Emotional harm.

Or does it mean or does it mean missional harm?

Missional harm.

Yeah, it could have been because he was a um was against what Paul was doing.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so like so Paul here is saying, I have fought the good fight, I have run the race, I have poured myself out.

I think one of the questions that I was trying to get to in the service is what is it that you will pour yourself out into in life and in ministry?

Because you know, if if we don't live for something, what what is the purpose of our life?

If we don't, if we don't live for something, if we don't throw ourselves into something, and for Paul, he has thrown himself into something to the point that he is prepared to say, I am I've poured myself into this completely and I'm I'm ready to die.

Well, I think you you know, for me, I can go back 40 years thinking that my Christianity, my faith gives me purpose.

It gives me purpose.

I need to find where what is my giftedness or calling in particular that I can pour myself into?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And and so I think for our listeners, you know, what is it that you pour yourself into?

What is the ministry or the life?

What what is it in your life that you are prepared to throw yourself into?

Yes.

You know, is it an environmental issue?

Is it a social justice issue?

What is it that you are prepared to pour yourself into, like Paul poured himself into?

Yeah.

It's ever everyone needs to work on that in their own lives, yeah.

To be part of the, you know, the body of Christ.

Yeah.

And we hear about that often, and we need to live it daily, and yet not everybody is going to have the energy to do it and yet different stages of life.

We we're not going to be able to all do great missional things overseas or things like that.

We're going to need to be able to think about, well, mine might be a prayer ministry where I can every week I can commit myself for so much time to be present and listen and pray.

Yeah, yes.

Like that's that's it.

What is what is it that we pour ourselves into?

One of the other things that I was trying to pick up, and I don't know how many people realized it, that we we worship Jesus Christ who poured his life out for us.

You know, Christ poured his life out for us to the point of death, death on a cross.

Yeah.

And and that's what came through to me at the end that here was Paul who lived such a passionate life, committed to the faith, spreading the good news, and Christianity is here in a large part because Paul and his followers spread that message.

Oh, look, he was definitely Yes.

Yeah.

It's I actually saw a paper once that said Paul influences our understanding of Jesus Christ far more than the disciples do.

Yeah.

And and in uh I I I hear that, and yet sometimes I need to be go back to the Gospels and read again so that I get the clarity between what was Jesus' purpose, so that I have that that correct or not correct, that balanced understanding of Christ's mission, God's mission, yeah, and where does Paul fit and how that all connects?

Yeah.

So so Paul starts with that, he's pouring out his life.

Yeah.

I find it a little bit interesting that he goes from such a passionate concept.

I call it a bit of a whinge.

A couple of people said no, Richard, I don't think that's fair of Paul.

But but like it's this little gripe of, you know, everyone's abandoned me, you know.

This person has loved the things of this world too much, and they've gone, and this person's gone to that place, this person's gone to that place.

Oh, I did send someone over there, but everyone has left me.

Yeah.

It's really hard for Paul, isn't it?

He's on his own in prison.

He's on his own, except for Luke, I think it was.

Luke estate.

Yeah.

What what this really hit me when I read it through before Sunday.

I was I read it through and I thought, why did they leave?

And I and the bit we we know one reason, because they wanted the good things of life, and being a follower of the way of Jesus was going to be too hard.

Yes.

I made a list, actually, yeah, of things that people why why they leave.

So in in a sense that Paul was sort of saying, These people abandoned me, but did they abandon him or did they abandon the faith, or did they just walk away from him?

I I think, well, we I I think we've both agreed that Paul was a bit intense.

Yes, it might have been.

And and and some people thought, well, if this is how I've got to be, I'm not sure I can live up to that.

Yes.

Now that's one of the things I've had said to me, I'm not good enough.

I cannot aspire to that.

So there's some people will come up with that.

Um and other people are just wanting to fit in and they're not sure that they can.

Yeah.

So in modern days, we have that, and having been in a number of churches and different situations, people just fall out with other people and they will walk away.

So I've done funerals for people and say, That's my church, and the people then say, Well, they haven't been here for years.

But the reason they haven't been because someone upset them.

Because someone upset them, yeah.

Yeah.

I'd never picked the concept of of these uh of Paul sort of saying, All these people abandoned me.

That I suppose I never it's interesting that you ask the question, why did they leave?

Yeah.

Because Paul here is just going, I'm abandoned.

Yeah.

But the question can sometimes be, did you push them, Paul?

And and and was that actually helpful for the gospel, you pushing those people away?

And I suppose we could ask that same question of us.

Do we actually sometimes push others or demand stuff of others?

Yeah.

And I'm sure we do, but I would never want to.

No, when I don't think we do anything intentionally.

Yeah.

But not everybody sitting in church receives the message of God and lives it in the same way.

We're not we're not carbon copies.

We're all we're we're individuals, but we're all part of the body of Christ.

We're fragile humans.

We are.

And so from my experience of working with people with mental health or some other disabilities, there needs to often be an effort to work out how we can include them.

But also, I had one man who went to a church and he had neurophobramatosis, which is the elephant man syndrome.

Oh, yes.

And so he he had these lesions all over him, and um he he said, Oh, people will just say, we don't want people like you here.

And I think he was his self-esteem must have been would have been a hard battle with life.

Yeah.

Very low.

And so I introduced him to a friend I knew who had the same problem, who had that, and so he could meet him.

But they'd both chosen different pathways.

But it was helpful to see, oh, I'm not the only one.

Yeah.

How can I but it's it's a very lonely existence for a lot of people in those situations.

Yeah.

And so Paul here saying that all these people have abandoned me.

It is a really important question that that how much had they abandoned, how much had he forced them away?

And and we probably need to ask those questions of us and the church, don't we?

We do, we do.

And um I had my lost years, Richard.

Yeah.

I had my lost years when um this was when I was first married, and I went to South Australia, and the sad part was we my husband and I at the time were working, lived in a caravan, we were work doing itinerant work.

Yeah.

And we ended up on the Murray River on this farm working for two brothers, and they had um a mixed thing.

They had sheep, but they had crops that they grew, like you know, cash crops like tomatoes and other things from irrigation.

And they had a trucking business as well, and they would go from Adelaide to Melbourne markets, and uh doing a load each way.

And they were killed on one bus trip, the two brothers.

Oh, true.

It was.

And one of the w we lived in a caravan between the two widows.

Oh yes.

It's a very long story, and I'm not telling it all now.

But what I'm uh what I'm going to say is I had not really engaged with the church much, and I started questioning God about why could you let this happen.

And then my husband wanted to walk out with me, walk, walk away from me and go off with one of the widows.

Now, you're I can see the look on the shock on your face, but this isn't a long time ago.

This is um 48 years ago.

Yeah.

And I found and I was pregnant.

Yeah.

Right?

So does it sound pretty tough?

It was sounds like a difficult situation.

What I what brought me back was my mum and dad, and my mother and her friends here, like Mare the two Mary's, and that they were praying for me.

Yeah.

And I knew that, and I thought, God, I don't think you've abandoned me.

I think I need to pray.

And and I did.

So, in a sense, when Paul's sitting here going, These people have all abandoned me.

Yeah, God hasn't.

In your history, it was I might have abandoned, but the people were still praying for me to call me back.

Yeah.

By the way, you know how you sort of say you had your lost years?

I was never brave enough to have a lost year.

So I was too frightened to leave the church.

I just hung around in it like a bad smell.

And and look, I when I came back and went, uh I was living and went to Gosford, I was welcomed.

Yeah.

The people were really, really welcoming.

And I and I guess, because I knew some of them, yeah.

Um, but that was that was a long time ago, and I'm very grateful that I had that community to welcome you back.

So people walk away, but they also when they want to re-enter, or if you know someone's hurting and you invite them, just be gentle.

It's a really interesting that's a really interesting exploration of Paul's statement about all these people of abandoning.

Because Like when you first read it, you just think Paul is complaining about these people because they've done something terrible.

They've they've left him in the mission.

But thinking about it in terms of why did they leave and how can we call them back is a really important question.

And and I think you have said somewhere, this is about a matter of perspective.

There's always that other side we need to explore.

And maybe that's because I've been on the other side and I wanted to explore.

Yeah.

No, I I really appreciate that.

And and it raises some interesting questions there of how do we make sure that those that do walk away are always welcomed back.

Yes, yes.

Always encouraged back.

Encouraged back.

And and I one when I was um in Sydney at Burwood Church, where I ran a group of a Bible study for adults with intellectual disabilities, I wanted to work to get them included, and I did.

But what that cong that evening congregation was really good at was welcoming the other, the strangers.

It's on Burwood Road, Burwood Uniting, and there would be people come off the street.

Yeah.

And one of them was a guy who had a mental health problem, and he carried bags with him everywhere.

And he'd come in and he'd sit down and then he'd move around.

And one of the women with a disability who came and said, Oh, he stinks.

And but other the other people just said, he can come, that's okay.

But they actually had to work out strategies to keep everyone safe.

And that becomes a dilemma when a church really does open its arms.

How do we do this to keep everyone safe?

And which doesn't mean you don't do it.

It just means you actually have to be conscious about if we are wanting to be a community of faith, how can we do is do this and show everyone love?

Hard work.

Yeah, yeah.

Hard work.

So for Paul here, he is lamenting these people that have left him.

But then he sort of says, But when I went to court, there was no one.

I was abandoned.

And then he goes, But the Lord stood beside me and the Lord gave me strength.

For me, I really wanted to draw out that it through through all of the scriptures we can see people when they are at their lowest, God lifts them up again and again and again.

I suppose in your story, in a sense, when you reached that moment of breaking, that's when God was there.

You know, you God had always been there, but in that moment of breaking, you were actually able to be carried by God.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And and knowing that I had people who loved and cared for me, that I really wasn't on my own.

And yeah, one day I'll tell you the rest of the story.

But it were but what I love here about Paul is that his testimony is so powerful, and I think I see such strength in how in how he presents it and how that can help us to shape and mold our faith.

Because someone is showing that they have this strong unbreakable or un or like incredible faith.

And even though he was down, and we uh earlier on we know that he's really down, yeah, but we can see he's he's sticking sticking with the good guy, with God, with Jesus.

I love that.

And that and that Jesus supports him in like for him, he's basically saying, When when I went when I went to the court, God gave me strength and I was able to preach the good news to everyone there, you know.

Again, that is a very poor moment, isn't it?

Oh he he he had an audience and he wasn't gonna miss that opportunity to share the good news.

If he'd probably put another case up, he might have been able to get out of prison.

But for him, he just wanted to use this opportunity to share the to share the news of Christ.

That's right.

And and that well, I I we don't know how any of us would be in that situation.

But I have to I I do admire that.

I admire his resolve, his resilience.

Yeah, yes, yeah, and and he has held he fights the good fight.

He you know, he he runs the race, he fights the good fight.

At every opportunity he will share the news of Christ, and even when he is in the court, he will he will present Jesus Christ to the people that he is in in front of the court with.

Yes, yeah.

He is he is a strong-willed character.

Yeah.

It's for me this whole series of bits in this into Timothy.

It's been fascinating for me to see Paul in a sense, so much of what we read when we read Paul, we're reading Paul instructing others, and he's still instructing Timothy here, but he's not instructing Timothy of this is what you have to do.

He's sort of sharing with Timothy, particularly in this passage, this is my experience, this is what I have done.

You know, I've fought the good fight, I I've done all these things, I've poured myself out for God.

I have been abandoned while I've been pouring myself out for God, but God will stand with me even in the hardest of moments.

His honesty and humanity are on full display.

Yes.

And it's like saying, you know, we see Paul here, Warts and all, and he's prepared to lay that out, and and he wants Timothy to know, and and whoever else reads Timothy's letter.

Yeah.

Yes.

It's it's a really good little series.

I for me, again, like you know, I was going, oh no, I don't know if I really want to preach much more of 2 Timothy, but it has opened up some really interesting ideas and concepts for me.

Yeah.

And it helps us understand more, I think, about that unconditional love of God and how when we trust that God is there with us on this amazing journey, and that we need to be prepared.

Like Paul being abandoned means he's had to let go of all those attachments and now be prepared to really be present with God.

Yeah.

And and that because again, coming back to where Paul is preaching here, where he's writing from, he's imprisoned, whether it's a house arrest and he's in a house and able to wander around, but most likely he's in a prison cell.

And so here he is from a prison cell sharing this stuff and sharing how God has been with him through the difficult times.

It's quite an amazing run in scripture.

One of the things we do nearly every year is look at the Joseph story.

And you know, Joseph going to prison, unfairly going to prison, and and building himself up and saying, Well, look, you know, God must have been using this even though I've been in prison.

I d I read a lot on that this year, um, because I did I did some preaching on Joseph, and I and I really love the story.

I think he, you know, there are many people from the history of in in the history of the Bible who show that resilience and seem to understand that God is with them, even if, like Joseph, he'd been torn away from his family.

Yes.

He he knew, yeah.

It's throughout history, isn't it?

We we see it right through the scriptures and we see it through some of the great characters of the church right throughout.

You know, there are millions of people that can give testimony that God holds on to us in our most difficult of times.

Yes, yeah.

Yes.

Is there anything else that you would want to share from this this passage that we've just gone through?

I don't think so.

I've I I it's in I think for me, I've never been the greatest fan of Paul, but when I take the trouble to study these He says some good stuff.

There is some really good stuff, and I think I appreciated this in particular because of his like just about vulnerability in a way.

Yeah.

And for me, the interesting thing is, you know, the stuff that in this conversation today that has opened up for me is the part that the Bible that the um the lectionary cut out.

So the lectionary had the I pour myself out, and then um God stands by me in the court, but got took out all of these people that had abandoned him.

But I really like that I love what you are saying there today about why did they go and how do we open it up for them to return.

That's a really important message for the church.

I think so.

I think we I think we we live in a time of an uh a very affluent society, even though I know there are pockets, uh, there are not just pockets, there are lots of people who would do it, do it tough because of lower incomes and cost of living has gone up.

Yeah, but people are still going on lots of overseas trips, and I'm not having a go at that because I've loved to travel, yeah, but I think we have it again, it's a matter of perspective.

Yeah, and we need to see we do live in an excellent country, we've got good health care, we have good food, we have good standard of living, and let us be grateful for what we have, and I know we can always help it to be better, but we yeah, let us be grateful.

But people with with that affluence often don't see they need us.

Yes, that is true.

Sometimes that that can be the blockage to Christ because we actually don't yeah, we don't need Christ.

No, yeah.

So we I think we it's uh it's not just about praying, it's about actually our observation, noticing what is happening in the world and our own community, and that's where the repair cafe is so brilliant as one of the spaces we have, not just that, we have play group and others, but a space where people can can come and we can have a conversation.

Yeah, and the conversation is just as important as everything else.

Yes, yeah.

Thank you so much, Sue.

Um the the notices, there are two things.

One is on the 14th of October, so 14th of October, Wednesday, it's a Wednesday, it's our the My Age Care Forum.

Um, we've got a whole heap of people who've already registered for that, but it should be really good if you uh have a family member or yourself that is going into that stage of life where you might need some of the supports of the governmental supports, the My Age Care Forum can help you navigate what is a horribly nightmarish.

It is.

Yeah, it is a nightmarish process.

So that's one thing.

The other thing is I think it's the 26th of October.

25th.

25th.

Is that that's the harvest harvest festival?

My birthday's the 26th.

Oh, there you go.

So ah.

So yeah, the Harvest Festival is the 25th of October.

Now remember, the Harvest Festival is a service where we only have one service for the day.

It'll be at 10 o'clock, and we invite people to offer some kind of thing in in an offering, a gift or a skill that they have or something that they have made, and then we auction off some of those things that have been made at the end of the service.

It might be something you've grown, it might be something that you can make, but it's about it's it's that classic harvest festival of God, you've given us these gifts, and we give some of it back to you.

So um, start thinking about what you could do for the harvest festival.

Um, yeah, is there something that you can make or grow?

You might be running out of time to grow, but you might be able to grow something still.

Um, so there's a couple of the notices, and the other really important thing is Holiday Kids Club, which is the 7th of October.

If you've got time to help and support that, please do.

That would be wonderful.

I think that's all the notices.

Sue, thank you so much for spending some time in conversation today.

And thank you everyone for listening.

And we will see you next week.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you so much.

Bye.