EP 13: SCC Savor, Month 3, Days 20 - 25

Allen: Well, welcome back to the SCC Saver Podcast where we're savoring God through every bite of scripture. I am Alan Smith, pastor of L'Oprentice at Sanibel Community Church. I'm joined with my pastor. Jeremy Rennie, senior pastor of Sanibel Community Church. What's going on, man? Not much, man. Hey, great sermon yesterday. Hey, praise God. Yeah. Habakkuk. Habakkuk. Habakkuk bringing the heat. You know, I was, I think what you said yesterday.

Jeramie: Well, welcome back to the SCC Saver Podcast where we're savoring God through every bite of scripture. I am Alan Smith, pastor of L'Oprentice at Sanibel Community Church. I'm joined with my pastor. Jeremy Rennie, senior pastor of Sanibel Community Church. What's going on, man? Not much, man. Hey, great sermon yesterday. Hey, praise God. Yeah. Habakkuk. Habakkuk. Habakkuk bringing the heat. You know, I was, I think what you said yesterday.

Allen: About the kind of the main application of the book is the righteous who will live by faith. Yeah I was real stewing on that. Yep, just yesterday. Yep, and and just recently as we've been going through the book and it's like man Is that this the Christian life? Yeah, it's from faith to faith Paul would say right. Well Christian life is by faith, know without faith It's impossible to please God Hebrews 11, you know, you it's it's a walk of faith the whole thing. So Yeah, you never stop

Jeramie: About the kind of the main application of the book is the righteous who will live by faith. Yeah I was real stewing on that. Yep, just yesterday. Yep, and and just recently as we've been going through the book and it's like man Is that this the Christian life? Yeah, it's from faith to faith Paul would say right. Well Christian life is by faith, know without faith It's impossible to please God Hebrews 11, you know, you it's it's a walk of faith the whole thing. So Yeah, you never stop

Allen: trusting, depending, relying on the Lord, waiting on the Lord. Yeah, that's right, Yeah, the Christian life is kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird life where we're called to do a lot, but we realize we can't do anything. It's his life in us. You know, we're supposed to go bear much fruit, but you have to be abiding in the vine. So it's really, it's a life where we're living in him and it's his life in us. And it's hard to explain that.

Jeramie: trusting, depending, relying on the Lord, waiting on the Lord. Yeah, that's right, Yeah, the Christian life is kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird life where we're called to do a lot, but we realize we can't do anything. It's his life in us. You know, we're supposed to go bear much fruit, but you have to be abiding in the vine. So it's really, it's a life where we're living in him and it's his life in us. And it's hard to explain that.

Allen: You kind of just experience it. It's true. Hey, question for you. You've been on this pastoral apprenticeship now for three months? You just passed three months? Yeah. That's good. ⁓ are you, ⁓ what are like immediate first three months takeaways, kind of like maybe surprises? What's kind of surprised you about this so far? I think honestly, I've been surprised to see the fruit that I have so

Jeramie: You kind of just experience it. It's true. Hey, question for you. You've been on this pastoral apprenticeship now for three months? You just passed three months? Yeah. That's good. ⁓ are you, ⁓ what are like immediate first three months takeaways, kind of like maybe surprises? What's kind of surprised you about this so far? I think honestly, I've been surprised to see the fruit that I have so

Allen: Quickly in the church meaning like hey, I would just say even we're talking on the podcast people really Enjoying this podcast and saying like man. I just never saw this in the Bible. I'm really learning this ⁓ this is helping me. This is motivating and this is a great people asking me questions people emailing questions emailing thoughts And I'm like that is so cool. Yeah, I talked to a lady ⁓ Elderly lady just this weekend, and she said this is the first time I think I'm gonna make it all the way through them

Jeramie: Quickly in the church meaning like hey, I would just say even we're talking on the podcast people really Enjoying this podcast and saying like man. I just never saw this in the Bible. I'm really learning this ⁓ this is helping me. This is motivating and this is a great people asking me questions people emailing questions emailing thoughts And I'm like that is so cool. Yeah, I talked to a lady ⁓ Elderly lady just this weekend and she said this is the first time I think I'm gonna make it all the way through them

Allen: That's amazing. She goes I always got hung up on stuff before but she loves the navigators plan and all this so it's really that was encouraging Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think that's been a surprising surprising joy is how fruitful things have been. Yeah. Yeah, cool Any negatives or challenges in three months three months here? My heart hurts mm-hmm for the people that are hurting yeah People that I literally have known for three months. Yep, and how much I care about their trials

Jeramie: That's amazing. She goes I always got hung up on stuff before but she loves the navigators plan and all this so it's really that was encouraging Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I think that's been a surprising surprising joy is how fruitful things have been. Yeah. Yeah, cool Any negatives or challenges in three months three months here? My heart hurts mm-hmm for the people that are hurting yeah People that I literally have known for three months. Yep, and how much I care about their trials

Allen: and what they're going through and how much it burdens me. It's like, you know, there's a there's just a deep connection that happens there when you're in a body together and you just feel the weight of what people are going through. And I think that has just been kind of I don't know if it's a negative. I think it's actually maybe positive because it's like bear one another's burdens with each other. That's what it means to be a member of a local church. You commit not just to Christians everywhere, but to a specific group of Christians and you sojourn with them and rejoice in those who rejoice.

Jeramie: and what they're going through and how much it burdens me. It's like, you know, there's a there's just a deep connection that happens there when you're in a body together and you just feel the weight of what people are going through. And I think that has just been kind of I don't know if it's a negative. I think it's actually maybe positive because it's like bear one another's burdens with each other. That's what it means to be a member of a local church. You commit not just to Christians everywhere, but to a specific group of Christians and you sojourn with them and rejoice in those who rejoice.

Allen: Weep at those who weep. Anything too that's just like developing a pastor's heart. Pastors are burdened by their people, for their people, and they want to see their people prosper. Yeah, that's true. What are we at today? Month three, days 20 to 25. So we're wrapping up month three. And you would have read Matthew.

Jeramie: Weep at those who weep. Anything too that's just like developing a pastor's heart. Pastors are burdened by their people, for their people, and they want to see their people prosper. Yeah, that's true. What are we at today? Month three, days 20 to 25. So we're wrapping up month three. And you would have read Matthew.

Allen: 27 11 through 28 20 so wrapped up we are we wrapped up two books no three we have three books three books yeah we wrapped up the end of matthew um the end of romans which was 12 9 through chapter 16 and then we wrapped up deuteronomy 18 through 34 and then we read the psalms 67 through 71 so we read a lot

Jeramie: 27 11 through 28 20 so wrapped up we are we wrapped up two books no three we have three books three books yeah we wrapped up the end of matthew um the end of romans which was 12 9 through chapter 16 and then we wrapped up deuteronomy 18 through 34 and then we read the psalms 67 through 71 so we read a lot

Allen: You know, you and I were talking right before this, before we started recording, and we were both just noting that Deuteronomy is one of our fave books. I love Deuteronomy. I love the history in it. love the call. He, like, boils it down, you know, love the Lord your God. I that's where the Shema is. And there's something about Deuteronomy that just gets at the heart of biblical faith. Yeah, that's good. So, I think why I love Deuteronomy so much is because

Jeramie: You know, you and I were talking right before this, before we started recording, and we were both just noting that Deuteronomy is one of our fave books. I love Deuteronomy. I love the history in it. love the call. He, like, boils it down, you know, love the Lord your God. I that's where the Shema is. And there's something about Deuteronomy that just gets at the heart of biblical faith. Yeah, that's good. So, I think why I love Deuteronomy so much is because

Allen: As you just mentioned, the whole thing is about devotion to Yahweh, the covenant-keeping God. So, yeah, just be devoted to this covenant-keeping God because He is going to be faithful to you no matter what. But, unfortunately, that's not always the case. Yeah, that's right. ⁓ And, you know, some highlights from this section of Deuteronomy I thought significant worth mentioning, chapter 18 verse 15.

Jeramie: As you just mentioned, the whole thing is about devotion to Yahweh, the covenant-keeping God. So, yeah, just be devoted to this covenant-keeping God because He is going to be faithful to you no matter what. But, unfortunately, that's not always the case. Yeah, that's right. ⁓ And, you know, some highlights from this section of Deuteronomy I thought significant worth mentioning, chapter 18 verse 15.

Allen: messianic prophecy. The Lord your God will raise up for you, Moses says, a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to him. Ultimately, that gets picked up in the New Testament, and that's Jesus. Jesus is the prophet like Moses, the true and greater Moses. Yeah, the true and greater Moses. Hey, what is maybe the relationship then between ⁓ Moses…well, maybe the difference between Moses' prophets?

Jeramie: messianic prophecy. The Lord your God will raise up for you, Moses says, a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to him. Ultimately, that gets picked up in the New Testament, and that's Jesus. Jesus is the prophet like Moses, the true and greater Moses. Yeah, the true and greater Moses. Hey, what is maybe the relationship then between ⁓ Moses…well, maybe the difference between Moses' prophets?

Allen: role as prophet and Jesus' role as prophet? How are they similar and how are they dissimilar? That's a good question. I mean, certainly Jesus is greater in that, I mean, he's a greater person than Moses. ⁓ know, Hebrews says that Moses was, you know, faithful as a servant in the house, but Jesus is the Lord of the house, of the people. So he's not just simply coming as God's mouthpiece, but Jesus is the head of the body. ⁓ He fulfills prophet

Jeramie: role as prophet and Jesus' role as prophet? How are they similar and how are they dissimilar? That's a good question. I mean, certainly Jesus is greater in that, I mean, he's a greater person than Moses. ⁓ know, Hebrews says that Moses was, you know, faithful as a servant in the house, but Jesus is the Lord of the house, of the people. So he's not just simply coming as God's mouthpiece, but Jesus is the head of the body. ⁓ He fulfills prophet

Allen: priest and king, all of the Old Testament offices. So there's that sense. And then also I think in that Jesus' ⁓ prophecy, so to speak, is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecy. He is the final word. You know, in the past, says Hebrews, God spoke to our fathers many times in various ways, but in these last days, He's spoken to us by His Son, whom He's appointed heir of all things. So Jesus is the last word. He's the word that fulfills all the words of the Old Testament.

Jeramie: priest and king, all of the Old Testament offices. there's that sense. And then also I think in that Jesus' ⁓ prophecy, so to speak, is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecy. He is the final word. You know, in the past, says Hebrews, God spoke to our fathers many times in various ways, but in these last days, He's spoken to us by His Son, whom He's appointed heir of all things. So Jesus is the last word. He's the word that fulfills all the words of the Old Testament.

Allen: And so when we look at the Old Testament as Christians, we're always looking at it through the lens of Christ. That's how the apostles interpreted the Old Testament, is they interpreted everything through Jesus. He's the fulfillment, culmination, and goal of all of these things. Yeah, that's great. This is an interpretive question ⁓ related. Did Moses know about Jesus as he's penning these things?

Jeramie: And so when we look at the Old Testament as Christians, we're always looking at it through the lens of Christ. That's how the apostles interpreted the Old Testament, is they interpreted everything through Jesus. He's the fulfillment, culmination, and goal of all of these things. Yeah, that's great. This is an interpretive question ⁓ related. Did Moses know about Jesus as he's penning these things?

Allen: Yeah, that's a, you know, it's a question of kind of like the psychology. What did they know? How clear was it that he knew? You know, in other words, when he wrote that verse, did he write, did he know a person named Jesus will come who will be God's son? You know, how much, how clear was it? And we don't always know. I mean, it's progressive revelation. so... Progressive revelation, meaning ongoing. Ongoing.

Jeramie: Yeah, that's a, you know, it's a question of kind of like the psychology. What did they know? How clear was it that he knew? You know, in other words, when he wrote that verse, did he write, did he know a person named Jesus will come who will be God's son? You know, how much, how clear was it? And we don't always know. I mean, it's progressive revelation. so... Progressive revelation, meaning ongoing. Ongoing.

Allen: And more and more, so throughout the Old Testament, God is revealing His plan. You know, the first revelation of the Gospel is when God says, you know, that the seed of the woman is going to crush the head of the seed of the serpent. And that's it. You know, you can't get the whole Gospel out of that. There's a lot of questions and answers, but it's the beginning of a progressive revelation. So in a way, do we have more revelation and understanding of God than Moses did, even though Moses literally met with Yahweh?

Jeramie: And more and more, so throughout the Old Testament, God is revealing His plan. You know, the first revelation of the Gospel is when God says, you know, that the seed of the woman is going to crush the head of the seed of the serpent. And that's it. You know, you can't get the whole Gospel out of that. There's a lot of questions and answers, but it's the beginning of a progressive revelation. So in a way, do we have more revelation and understanding of God than Moses did, even though Moses literally met with Yahweh?

Allen: Yeah, yeah. I mean, isn't that interesting? He saw Gawai face to face. And so, in some ways, he knew more than we did. But, you know, this is one of Paul's arguments in 2 Corinthians is that in the face of Christ, we see God and that we see Him through the Spirit living in us who enlightens our hearts to see the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Jeramie: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, isn't that interesting? He saw God face to face. And so, in some ways, He knew more than we did. But, you know, this is one of Paul's arguments in 2 Corinthians is that in the face of Christ, we see God and that we see Him through the Spirit living in us who enlightens our hearts to see the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Allen: So, ⁓ yeah, and in other ways, yeah, we're greater. Just like he said about John the Baptist, you know, there's none greater than John the Baptist, but the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. In other words, Jesus so ⁓ radically fulfills and culminates everything in the Old Testament that to know Christ is greater than anything that had come before. Interesting stuff. ⁓ So, kind of moving on through Deuteronomy a little bit. Yeah. ⁓

Jeramie: So, ⁓ yeah, and in other ways, yeah, we're greater. Just like he said about John the Baptist, you know, there's none greater than John the Baptist, but the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. In other words, Jesus so ⁓ radically fulfills and culminates everything in the Old Testament that to know Christ is greater than anything that had come before. Interesting stuff. ⁓ So, kind of moving on through Deuteronomy a little bit. Yeah. ⁓

Allen: what a lot of laws, again, hey, this is how you ought to handle uncleanness, this is how you handle divorce, you know, here's ⁓ about who's excluded from the assembly, sexual immorality, and there's associated with these both blessing and cursing. Yeah, that's right. How do you, how should readers, and we're getting practical, how should readers understand these blessings and these cursings in Deuteronomy specifically, and then how they end up falling on Israel?

Jeramie: What a lot of laws, again, hey, this is how you ought to handle uncleanness, this is how you handle divorce, you know, here's ⁓ about who's excluded from the assembly, sexual immorality, and there's associated with these both blessing and cursing. Yeah, that's right. How do you, how should readers, and we're getting practical, how should readers understand these blessings and these cursings in Deuteronomy specifically, and then how they end up falling on Israel?

Allen: Yeah, it's really critical to understand that, you we talk about covenant a lot, that God entered into a covenant with Israel, and the covenant He entered into with them came with blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. So God would prosper them if they obeyed as a nation, and He would ruin them if they disobeyed as a nation, if they worshiped other gods and didn't, you know, keep all those laws. You're just talking about if they didn't love each other through those laws.

Jeramie: Yeah, it's really critical to understand that, you we talk about covenant a lot, that God entered into a covenant with Israel, and the covenant He entered into with them came with blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. So God would prosper them if they obeyed as a nation, and He would ruin them if they disobeyed as a nation, if they worshiped other gods and didn't, you know, keep all those laws. You're just talking about if they didn't love each other through those laws.

Allen: So, and that really comes out in chapters 27, 28, which is really, you if you read through those slowly, it's like, wow, God really hates sin. And God's judgment is powerful. so, and what's also interesting in Deuteronomy is you not only get, hey, these are the blessings, these are the curses, but then, you know, starting really, you know, like chapter 29 and go onward.

Jeramie: So, and that really comes out in chapters 27, 28, which is really, you if you read through those slowly, it's like, wow, God really hates sin. And God's judgment is powerful. so, and what's also interesting in Deuteronomy is you not only get, hey, these are the blessings, these are the curses, but then, you know, starting really, you know, like chapter 29 and go onward.

Allen: ⁓ God tells Moses that the Israelites are actually going to disobey the covenant. They will break the covenant, and God is going to abandon them. So he's like, and I'll let you know how this is going to work out. And so in some ways, you kind of have the Old Testament, the future of the Old Testament prophesied, and not only God's judgment, but then someday God's ⁓ mercy. You know, chapter 30, when all these things happen to you.

Jeramie: ⁓ God tells Moses that the Israelites are actually going to disobey the covenant. They will break the covenant, and God is going to abandon them. So he's like, and I'll let you know how this is going to work out. And so in some ways, you kind of have the Old Testament, the future of the Old Testament prophesied, and not only God's judgment, but then someday God's ⁓ mercy. You know, chapter 30, when all these things happen to you.

Allen: the blessings and curse I've set before you. And you come to your senses while you are in the nations where the Lord God has driven you. So God is going to exile you. The exile is predicted here. He says, then you and your children will return to the Lord your God and obey with your heart and all your soul. And then John in chapter, verse six, says the Lord, your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants and you will love him with all your heart.

Jeramie: the blessings and curse I've set before you. And you come to your senses while you are in the nations where the Lord God has driven you. So God is going to exile you. The exile is predicted here. He says, then you and your children will return to the Lord your God and obey with your heart and all your soul. And then John in chapter, verse six, says the Lord, your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants and you will love him with all your heart.

Allen: and you honor your soul and you will live. So he prophesies a future day when they will actually love God with circumcised hearts, with new hearts, which is the new covenant. Yeah, that's super interesting. that whole section there, you mentioned even a little bit further down that he set before you today life and good, death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the Lord, the Lord your God that I command you today by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways and keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules,

Jeramie: and you honor your soul and you will live. So he prophesies a future day when they will actually love God with circumcised hearts, with new hearts, which is the new covenant. Yeah, that's super interesting. that whole section there, you mentioned even a little bit further down that he set before you today life and good, death and evil. If you obey the commandments of the Lord, the Lord your God that I command you today by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways and keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, you shall live and multiply and he will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. And so what you mentioned, which is interesting is the new covenant, which is the circumcised hearts. And that is a theme that's going to get carried through in some of the prophets, right? In Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36 is I will remove the heart of stone and give a heart of flesh. Right. And that part of the new covenant as part of the new covenant. So it's prophesying, which is interesting.

Allen: you shall live and multiply and he will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. And so what you mentioned, which is interesting, is the new covenant, which is the circumcised hearts. And that is a theme that's going to be carried through in some of the prophets, right? In Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36 is, will remove the heart of stone and give a heart of flesh. Right. And that part of the new covenant as part of the new covenant. So it's prophesying, which is interesting.

Jeramie: It's prophesying towards a future event where again Jesus would come and fulfill again like Moses, a prophet like Moses. Again, it's all kind of pointing towards Jesus who ends up being a better mediator of the covenant and ends up giving his spirit to his people. And that's when he says he'll give his spirit to his people. Yeah. And so you really have in some ways the ⁓ prospectus on what's going to happen through the rest of the whole Testament into the New Testament.

Allen: It's prophesying towards a future event where again Jesus would come and fulfill again like Moses, a prophet like Moses. Again, it's all kind of pointing towards Jesus who ends up being a better mediator of the covenant and ends up giving his spirit to his people. And that's when he says he'll give his spirit to his people. Yeah. And so you really have in some ways the... prospectus on what's going to happen through the rest of the whole testament into the New Testament. Yeah. Where there'll be the new prophet, where there'll be circumcised hearts in a new covenant that takes place there. And in fact, in chapter 32, you get the song of Moses, which is like, God's like, you need to teach them this song because all these things are going to happen. They are going to turn away from me. And this song is like ⁓ a witness against them from when that happens. And then to kind of conclude the book here, ⁓

Jeramie: Yeah, where they'll be the new prophet where there will be circumcised hearts in a new covenant That is that takes place there. And in fact in chapter 32 you get the song of Moses Which is like God's like you need to teach them this song because all these things are gonna happen They are gonna turn away from me and this song is like ⁓ a witness against them from yeah that happens. Mm-hmm Yeah, then to kind of conclude the book here ⁓ Moses makes his final blessing on Israel in chapter

Allen: Moses makes his final blessing on Israel ⁓ in chapter 33 says the Lord This is verse one the Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Sarah upon us He shone forth from Mount Peron. He came from the ten thousands of holy ones with flaming fire at his right hand. Yes He loved his people And he keeps on going on all those holy ones were in his land. So he blesses them He says this to these different tribes right to Levi to Benjamin to to Joseph and then

Jeramie: 33 says the Lord This is verse one the Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Sarah upon us He shone forth from Mount Peron. He came from the ten thousands of holy ones with flaming fire at his right hand Yes, he loved his people And he keeps on going on all those holy ones were in his land. So he blesses them He says this to these different tribes right to Levi to Benjamin to to Joseph and then he raises again dad So he goes through all the tribes with all these blessings

Allen: He raises a gay and dad, so he goes through all the tribes with all these blessings and he dies. And that's it. That's it. Yeah. But God being faithful, raised up a new leader. And that'll be a little bit of into our next book that we're going to read. Joshua. Joshua. Joshua. And Joshua is a character that we're familiar with because he was faithful. Yeah. Because he didn't. Yeah. Joshua is the immediate prophet who's raised up, but he is, you know, a type of the one to come. Yeah.

Jeramie: And he dies. And that's it. And that's Yeah. But God, being faithful, raised up a new leader. And that'll be a little bit of into our next book that we're going to read. Joshua. Joshua. I love Joshua. And Joshua is a character that we're familiar with because he was faithful. Yeah. Because he didn't. Yeah. Joshua is the immediate prophet who's raised up, but he is, you know, a type of the one to come. Yeah. Psalms, probably the Psalm that I thought was

Allen: Psalms, ⁓ probably the Psalm that I thought was interesting that sort of had struck me before is Psalm 71, which is Psalm for old people. ⁓ Yeah, which, you know, we have a lot of elderly folks at our church and I thought, wow, there's a Psalm just for them. You know, verse nine, don't discard me in my old age. As my strength fails, do not abandon me. Verse 18, even when I am old and gray, God, do not abandon me.

Jeramie: Interesting that it sort of had struck me before as Psalm 71, which is Psalm for old people Yeah, which you know, we have a lot of elderly folks in our church and I thought wow, there's a Psalm just for them Yeah, you know verse 9 don't discard me in my old age. Mm-hmm as my strength fails Do not abandon me verse 18 even when I'm old and gray God do not abandon me Yeah, and I when I while I proclaim your power to another generation

Allen: And I, well, I proclaim your power to another generation. So, you know, the Lord, Lord, stay faithful to me. You've been faithful my whole life. I'm in the hard season now in some ways. And Lord, help me just to be, don't abandon me and help me to be useful to you as I tell the next generation about how good you've been to me. And I think it's one ⁓ of the ministries of the elderly is to tell young people that God is faithful.

Jeramie: So, you know, the Lord, Lord, stay faithful to me. You've been faithful my whole life. I'm in the hard season now in some ways. And Lord, help me just to be, don't abandon me and help me to be useful to you as I tell the next generation about how good you've been to me. And I think it's one ⁓ of the ministries of the elderly is to tell young people that God is faithful. And especially as young people are...

Allen: And especially as young people are freaking out and worried about things, you know, this is something the elderly have to give is like, guys, I've been through a whole bunch of stuff in life. God's been faithful to me. And you can trust Him, you know, because, you know, when you're young, everything's a huge deal and you have no perspective. So this is what the elderly have to give us is like the perspective of God's faithfulness. So anyone who's listening out there who's elderly, you know, speak up and just tell people, tell the young people in your life, your kids, your grandkids,

Jeramie: freaking out and worried about things. This is something the elderly have to give is like, guys, I've been through a whole bunch of stuff in life. God's been faithful to me. And you can trust Him. Because when you're young, everything's a huge deal and you have no perspective. So this is what the elderly have to give us is like the perspective of God's faithfulness. So anyone who's listening out there who's elderly, speak up and just tell people, tell the young people in your life, your kids, your grandkids. that God has been faithful, he's been faithful you and he'll be faithful to them if they trust him. That's great. I think one of the most encouraging things on this, so receiving encouragement from elderly people when I talk with them, is like, some people in the church have been so kind, the churches have been so kind, so like, hey, how are things going? Are you getting transitioned well? Are you moving in? I'm like, yeah, it's good. I'm just still trying to out rhythm, schedule, and everything. They're like, well,

Allen: that God has been faithful, he's been faithful you and he'll be faithful to them if they trust him. That's great. I think one of the most encouraging things on this, so receiving encouragement from elderly people when I talk with them, is like, some people in the church have been so kind, the churches have been so kind, so like, hey, how are things going? Are you getting transitioned well? Are you moving in? I'm like, yeah, it's good. I'm just still trying to out rhythm, schedule, and everything. They're like, well, Me too. So it's encouraging to hear it's like, look, you don't got to have it all figured out. Yeah. And don't you love when elderly people too, ⁓ you know, you're wrestling with your faith and they're like, I'm still growing. Yeah. I'm still learning. And it's it's encouraging. It's encouraging both what they've learned and also that they're still learning. And they're okay. Yeah. It's okay. And it just gives you a picture of faithful discipleship throughout the course of your life.

Jeramie: Me too. So it's encouraging to hear it's like, look, you don't got to have it all figured out. Yeah. And don't you love when elderly people too, ⁓ you know, you're wrestling with your faith and they're like, I'm still growing. Yeah. I'm still learning. And it's it's encouraging. It's encouraging both what they've learned and also that they're still learning. And they're okay. Yeah. It's okay. And it just gives you a picture of faithful discipleship throughout the course of your life.

Allen: And we need that because we live in a day of immediacy with no history of the past and no thoughtfulness about the future. It's just kind of what's happening now and what's the newest thing now. So it's great to have elderly saints in your church. And if you have them, their gift, pick their brains, take them out to lunch, ask them about their faith, know, help them go to those elderly saints and be like, tell me how God's been faithful to your whole life. Give me stories. Yeah. And ⁓ they will. Yeah. A song for me.

Jeramie: And we need that because we live in a day of immediacy with no history of the past and no thoughtfulness about the future. It's just kind of what's happening now and what's the newest thing now. So it's great to have elderly saints in your church. And if you have them, their gift, pick their brains, take them out to lunch, ask them about their faith, know, help them go to those elderly saints and be like, tell me how God's been faithful to your whole life. Give me stories. Yeah. And ⁓ they will. Yeah. A song for me.

Allen: Psalm 70. It ⁓ was a happy Psalm. It was just like, hey, ⁓ make haste, ⁓ God, deliver me, ⁓ Lord, make haste to help me. You know, he's calling on, ⁓ you know, there's these enemies and he's calling on them to act. And then at the end of it, it's kind of this conclusion. He goes, may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you. May those who love your salvation say every more, God is great. Yeah. But I am poor and needy hasten to me, ⁓ God, you are my help, my deliverer, ⁓ Lord, do not delay.

Jeramie: Psalm 70. It ⁓ was a happy Psalm. It was just like, hey, ⁓ make haste, ⁓ God, deliver me, ⁓ Lord, make haste to help me. You know, he's calling on, ⁓ you know, there's these enemies and he's calling on them to act. And then at the end of it, it's kind of this conclusion. He goes, may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you. May those who love your salvation say every more, God is great. Yeah. But I am poor and needy hasten to me, ⁓ God, you are my help, my deliverer, ⁓ Lord, do not delay.

Allen: And I just got a little snapshot of like, Hey, okay, there's people who are out to get me like, I'm poor and needy, but God is great. Me, those who love your salvation. just like all these different types of kind of emotions that we go through in the Christian life where it's just like, Hey, I'm poor and needy, but God is great. People who love your salvation. People hate you. I don't know what to do. Make Lord, Lord hasten to deliver me.

Jeramie: And I just got a little snapshot of like, Hey, okay, there's people who are out to get me like, I'm poor and needy, but God is great. Me, those who love your salvation. just like all these different types of kind of emotions that we go through in the Christian life where it's just like, Hey, I'm poor and needy, but God is great. People who love your salvation. People hate you. I don't know what to do. Make Lord, Lord hasten to deliver me.

Allen: Yeah, and that's how we are. mean, our souls in times of trial and difficulty are a swirl of thoughts, and we can, you know, yo-yo back and forth between those extremes. And the Psalms give us the words, ⁓ as we always say. The Psalms give us the words to talk to God and to sing to God and to lament. ⁓ Something that I think maybe would be helpful to, just in light of what we just mentioned about the Psalms, the Christian life, I would say even your sermon series through Habakkuk,

Jeramie: Yeah, and that's how we are. mean, our souls in times of trial and difficulty are a swirl of thoughts, and we can, you know, yo-yo back and forth between those extremes. And the Psalms give us the words, ⁓ as we always say. The Psalms give us the words to talk to God and to sing to God and to lament. ⁓ Something that I think maybe would be helpful to, just in light of what we just mentioned about the Psalms, the Christian life, I would say even your sermon series through Habakkuk,

Allen: ⁓ And one point that you mentioned is some people say don't ask God why. But you're arguing that no, you can't ask God why. How? can ask God anything. Yeah. You got to be careful about what he says as an answer. You may or may not like it, but you can ask him anything you want. And as I've been just reading through the Psalms, I feel like I've gotten this a lot. It's just like complaining, calling out, asking him to act. How can maybe for our listeners understand the difference between like

Jeramie: ⁓ And one point that you mentioned is some people say don't ask God why. But you're arguing that no, you can't ask God why. How? can ask God anything. Yeah. You got to be careful about what he says as an answer. You may or may not like it, but you can ask him anything you want. And as I've been just reading through the Psalms, I feel like I've gotten this a lot. It's just like complaining, calling out, asking him to act. How can maybe for our listeners understand the difference between like

Allen: crossing over sin to accusing God's character like the Israelites versus warranted complaint and confusion. Yeah. think it's, I mean, I think one of the ways to describe that difference is what you said in the beginning, that the whole Christian life is faith. And you can complain or bring a complaint or a grief to God in faith or...

Jeramie: crossing over sin to accusing God's character like the Israelites versus warranted complaint and confusion. Yeah. think it's, I mean, I think one of the ways to describe that difference is what you said in the beginning, that the whole Christian life is faith. And you can complain or bring a complaint or a grief to God in faith or...

Allen: you can do it in unbelief. And that's the difference between a biblical lament and sinful grumbling. And I think that's it. Because even those laments, there's always a, I trust in you, Lord, but I wait on you. it's not so much ⁓ a person who's trying to stick it to God with a gotcha question. It's more like, hey, God, I love you. I trust you. You're my God. This isn't making sense. That's so different from...

Jeramie: you can do it in unbelief. And that's the difference between a biblical lament and sinful grumbling. And I think that's it. Because even those laments, there's always a, I trust in you, Lord, but I wait on you. it's not so much ⁓ a person who's trying to stick it to God with a gotcha question. It's more like, hey, God, I love you. I trust you. You're my God. This isn't making sense. That's so different from...

Allen: You know, yeah, right God, you know, prove it, you know, like a skeptic or an atheist or a fool, you know, the fool who says in his heart, there is no God. That's a different thing. So faith is the key. Yeah, that's great. We finished Matthew. Yeah, we did. Sorry. I'm just last little point. Okay. On that. Go for it. There's still there's something on the table. There is something on the table. ⁓ A truth in light of that, that I've been meditating on in the complaint or the confusion.

Jeramie: You know, yeah, right God, you know, prove it, you know, like a skeptic or an atheist or a fool, you know, the fool who says in his heart, there is no God. That's a different thing. So faith is the key. Yeah, that's great. We finished Matthew. Yeah, we did. Sorry. I'm just last little point. Okay. On that. Go for it. There's still there's something on the table. There is something on the table. ⁓ A truth in light of that, that I've been meditating on in the complaint or the confusion.

Allen: is 1 Peter 5, 7, this is casting all your anxieties on him because he cares for you. And I just thought, man, God cares about what's going on in my life more than I even care. ⁓ And he wants your anxieties. He wants them. Yeah. He's not like, hey, what's wrong with you? Don't you have faith? Like, you shouldn't be feeling anxiety. No, it's like, no, give them to him. Yeah. He's like, give them, give them. Bring me your complaints. Give me your anxieties. Tell me. It's like...

Jeramie: is 1 Peter 5, 7, this is casting all your anxieties on him because he cares for you. And I just thought, man, God cares about what's going on in my life more than I even care. ⁓ And he wants your anxieties. He wants them. Yeah. He's not like, hey, what's wrong with you? Don't you have faith? Like, you shouldn't be feeling anxiety. No, it's like, no, give them to him. Yeah. He's like, give them, give them. Bring me your complaints. Give me your anxieties. Tell me. It's like...

Allen: I already know. Yeah, just tell me. Yeah, I already know and I already care and I've already worked it out. Yeah. So let's talk. Yeah. We did finish Matthew, which obviously this is the climax, which I think is really interesting in the Gospels. Everything's kind of leading up to this. Jesus is going to be crucified. He's going to be mocked and then he's going to be crucified and then he's going to resurrect.

Jeramie: I already know. Yeah. Just tell me. Yeah, I already know and I already care and I've already worked it out. Yeah. So let's talk. Yeah. We did finish Matthew, which obviously this is the climax, which I think is really interesting in the Gospels. Everything's kind of leading up to this. Jesus is going to be crucified. He's going to be mocked and then he's going to be crucified and then he's going to resurrect. I always feel whenever I read through, when I'm reading through the Gospels, reading through the Bible,

Allen: I always feel whenever I read through, when I'm reading through the Gospels, reading through the Bible, and I get to, you know, from His arrest onward, I just feel like I'm walking on kind of holy ground. I feel that when I'm reading it. Like, I just feel sort of a sense of weight as I read it, because it's like, this is how He saved us through His death, burial, and resurrection. I don't know.

Jeramie: get to, you know, from his arrest onward, I just feel like I'm walking on kind of holy ground. I feel that when I'm reading it. Like, I just feel sort of a sense of weight as I read it, because it's like, this is how he saved us through his death, burial and resurrection. I don't know, that never leaves me and I hope it never does. I hope every time I read the passion narratives, there's a sense of, you know,

Allen: That never leaves me and I hope it never does. I hope every time I read the passion narratives, there's a sense of fear and trembling as we walk through those final hours of his life where he made atonement for our sins. Yeah, it's weighty. Look, I want to look at a few verses here, 45 through 50 and 27 says,

Jeramie: Fear and trembling as we walk through those final hours of his life where he made atonement for our sins Yeah, it's weighty ⁓ Look, I want to look a few verses here 45 through 50 and 27 says now from the six hour There was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour and about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a voice saying Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani that is my god my god Why have you forsaken me and some of the bystanders hearing it said this man is calling Elijah?

Allen: That is my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And some of the bystanders hearing it said, this man is calling Elijah. And one of them at once ran and took a sponge filled with sour wine and put it on a reed and gave it to him to drink. But the other said, wait, let us see whether Elijah will come and save him. And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit in 51. And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. These are some of the most important verses I think.

Jeramie: And one of them at once ran and took a sponge filled with sour wine and put it on a reed and gave it him to drink. But the other said, wait, let us see whether Elijah will come and save him. And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit in 51. And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. These are some of the most important verses I think. So this, this my God, my God, why you forsaken me is a, is a quote from Psalm 22. That's right. Which is a, a ⁓

Allen: So this this my god my god right you're forsaking me is a is a quote from Psalm 22 That's right, which is a a messianic or Davidic lament. Yes. Yeah, and so I think one there's an interesting point. What does it mean that God has forsaken Jesus? Like I think you see you have to wrestle with that then to you have Jesus yielding up his spirit and then the temp the the veil of the curtain of the temple tearing in two which

Jeramie: messianic or Davidic lament. Yes. Yeah. And so I think one, there's an interesting point. What does it mean that God has forsaken Jesus? Like I think you have to wrestle with that. Then two, you have Jesus yielding up his spirit and then the veil of the curtain of the temple tearing in two, which recognizes huge implications. Well, one thing just to be clear on when Jesus says, my God, my God, why have you abandoned me or forsaken me? What it does not mean.

Allen: recognizes is huge implications. Well one thing just to be clear on when Jesus says my God my God why have you abandoned me or forsaken me what it does not mean is that the Trinity was ruptured. Yeah. Or that you know that the Father and the Son were out of fellowship. There it is. There has never been a moment where Father Son and Spirit were disunified because they are one God. Yeah.

Jeramie: is that the Trinity was ruptured. Or that the Father and the Son were out of fellowship. There has never been a moment where Father, Son, and Spirit were disunified because they are one God. Rather, this is Jesus in his humanity. And sometimes Jesus says things that he's speaking in a sense through the lens of his humanity or his divinity. And this is his humanity. He is...

Allen: Rather this is Jesus in his humanity and sometimes sometimes Jesus says things and that it brings it He's speaking in a sense through the lens of his humanity or his divinity. Yeah, and this is his humanity He is he is the son of David and so he takes up the words of David to express the suffering of his soul And if you go back to your Psalm 22, which is a great read I mean, maybe that's something you just want to do for your listening to this pick up Psalm 22 and just go through it with your highlighter

Jeramie: He is the son of David, and so he takes up the words of David to express the suffering of his soul. And if you go back to Psalm 22, which is a great read, I mean, maybe that's something you just want to do for your listening to this. Pick up Psalm 22 and just go through it with your highlighter. Just highlight all the fulfillments of Psalm 22 in the suffering of Jesus. It's amazing. Yeah, this is important. It's a fulfillment of that Psalm 22, son of David. It doesn't mean that God

Allen: just highlight all the fulfillments of Psalm 22 in the suffering of Jesus. It's amazing. Yeah. This is important. It's a fulfillment of that Psalm 22, son of David. It doesn't mean that God was separated or out of fellowship with one another. So that's important to understand. But there is in Jesus' humanity a lament because he's facing death. Yeah, that's right.

Jeramie: was separated or out of fellowship with one another. So that's important to understand. But there is in Jesus' humanity a lament because he's facing death. Yeah, that's right. Just like when he prayed in the garden, Father, take this from me. Now you will. You know, there's Jesus as a fully human. But, you know, God can't be separated. mean, Deuteronomy, hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. There's one God. And so and that one God is simple. He's not broken up into parts. yeah.

Allen: Yeah, just like when you prayed in the garden, Father, take this from me. Now you will. You know, there's Jesus as a fully human, but, you know, God can't be separated. mean, Deuteronomy, hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. There's one God. And so, and that one God is simple. He's not broken up into parts. So, yeah, yeah, that's what it doesn't mean. Right. And then the curtain of the temple tearing into, so as we've been reading through the Old Testament, you know, in the tabernacle,

Jeramie: Yeah, that's what it doesn't mean. Right. And then the curtain of the temple tearing into, so as we've been reading through the Old Testament, you know, in the tabernacle. That takes on such a richer meaning in light of the Old Testament. Yeah, that's right. Where ⁓ in the Holy of Holies, meaning the most holy place where only the priest, after he'd done all his atonement, cleansing, could enter God's presence. And that was only for the one priest. Yeah. One time a year. Yeah. And that curtain symbolized

Allen: That takes on such a richer meaning in light of the Old Testament. Yeah, that's right. Where ⁓ in the Holy of Holies, meaning the most holy place where only the priest, after he'd done all his atonement, cleansing, could enter God's presence. And that was only for the one priest. One time a year. And that curtain symbolized the lack of access, the hiddenness of God, the fact that he had to be behind a curtain so that his holiness wouldn't, ⁓ you know, burn out.

Jeramie: the lack of access, the hiddenness of God, the fact that he had to be behind a curtain so that his holiness wouldn't, ⁓ you know, burn out. Yeah, destroy everyone. And destroy. Yeah. But now it's torn. Yeah. I mean, that simple act. mean, has there ever been a more significant ripping of fabric in the history of the world? ⁓ You thought your your pants getting torn in the dry air was a big deal.

Allen: Yeah, destroy everyone and destroy. Yeah, but now it's Yeah, I mean that simple act. mean, has there ever been a more significant ripping of fabric in the history of the world? ⁓ You thought your your pants getting torn in the dryer was a big deal. Yet you can now enter God's presence. This is the most significant tearing of a piece of fabric. That's right.

Jeramie: Yet you can now enter God's presence. This is the most significant tearing of a piece of fabric. right. Yeah. that piece of fabric being torn means that we can fully access God and we have fellowship in union with Him. And it's not just that we can go in, but God is coming out. And that's where Matthew ends, is with this passage itself called the Great Commission. Go therefore to all nations.

Allen: Yep, and that piece of Abbot being torn means that we can fully access God and we have fellowship in union with Him. And it's not just that we can go in, but God is coming out. And that's where Matthew ends, is with this passage itself called the Great Commission. Go therefore to all nations, make disciples, baptizing them in the of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. And so God is now sending out His gospel. So rather than people having to come to the temple,

Jeramie: make disciples, baptizing them in the of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. And so God is now sending out his gospel. So rather than people having to come to the temple, this curtain is open and now through his apostles, the gospel is going out into the world. The temple is no longer a place you go to, it's a thing you become as all the nations are coming to faith in Christ. a ⁓ massive shift, tectonic shift with the resurrection of Jesus and his death and resurrection.

Allen: this curtain is open and now through his apostles the gospel is going out into the world that the temple is no longer a place you go to it's a thing you become as all the nations are coming to faith in Christ. a ⁓ massive shift, tectonic shift with the resurrection of Jesus and his death and resurrection. Yeah, yeah that's great and teaching them to observe all that I've commanded you to and behold this is the commission with the promise I am with you always to the end of the age.

Jeramie: Yeah, yeah, that's great and teaching them to observe all that I've committed you and behold This is the commission with the promise. I am with you always to the end of the age Jesus will be with you as you proclaim his the resurrected King to the nations I Was also a little sad to finish Romans. I It's great so much. Yeah, you know you get chapped it really chapters 12 through 16 is is a lot about

Allen: Jesus will be with you as you proclaim the resurrected king to the nations. I was also a little sad to finish Romans. know. So much. You know, get chapters, really chapters 12 through 16 is a lot about the kind of life we live together as a community, as Christians. know, chapter 12, you have the gifts of the body. You have all the ways we're supposed to ⁓

Jeramie: the kind of life we live together as a community, as Christians. know, chapter 12, you have the gifts of the body. You have all the ways we're supposed to love each other. know, chapter 12, verse 10, love one another deeply as brothers and sisters, outdo one another, showing honor. Just loving each other as a body, really powerful. 12, Romans 12, 12, tatted on my arm. It is. It is.

Allen: Love each other, know, chapter 12 verse 10. Love one another deeply as brothers and sisters. Outdo one another, showing honor. Just loving each other as a body, really powerful. 12, Romans 12, 12, tatted on my arm. It is. It is. It's simple. Rejoice in hope. Be patient in tribulation. Be constant in prayer. Yeah.

Jeramie: Simple, rejoice and hope. Be patient in tribulation. Be constant in prayer. Yeah.

Allen: Solid, simple, to the point. Chapter 14 and 15. Very important chapters because it's dealing with this whole issue of the conscience and how different Christians on debatable matters have different consciences, which of course would have been a huge deal in that time because you had Jews and Gentiles together in the same church. know, had Jewish culture, Gentile culture, very different food laws.

Jeramie: Solid, simple, to the point. Chapter 14 and 15. Very important chapters because it's dealing with this whole issue of the conscience and how different Christians on debatable matters have different consciences, which of course would have been a huge deal in that time because you had Jews and Gentiles together in the same church. know, had Jewish culture, Gentile culture, very different food laws.

Allen: You know, even if Jewish people, you know, became Christians and they no longer think they're saved by the works of the law, still, they may choose to eat kosher. I mean, they've been doing it their whole lives. There may still be holy days that they want to observe. And now all these Gentiles are in the church and they eat pork and they don't observe the Sabbath the way a Jewish person does. And, you know, what do do with that? And interesting, Paul's answer is not, well, we need to have a Gentile church and then we need to have a Messianic Jewish church. No.

Jeramie: You know, even if Jewish people, you know, became Christians and they no longer think they're saved by the works of the law, still, they may choose to eat kosher. I mean, they've been doing it their whole lives. There may still be holy days that they want to observe. And now all these Gentiles are in the church and they eat pork and they don't observe the Sabbath the way a Jewish person does. And, you know, what do do with that? And interesting, Paul's answer is not, well, we need to have a Gentile church and then we need to have a Messianic Jewish church. No.

Allen: We need one church. He didn't say, well, we need a service at nine for the Jews where it's going to be more Jewishy flavor. And then we'll have a service at 11 that's more Gentile-y flavor. No, he's like, we're a family. We're going to be together. The key is to accept each other and embrace those differences in conscience. He got us this figure it out. A little bit. Yeah, he's like, hey, figure it out because Christ.

Jeramie: We need one church. He didn't say, well, we need a service at nine for the Jews where it's going to be more Jewishy flavor. And then we'll have a service at 11 that's more Gentile-y flavor. No, he's like, we're a family. We're going to be together. The key is to accept each other and embrace those differences in conscience. He got us this figure it out. A little bit. Yeah, he's like, hey, figure it out because Christ.

Allen: is the unifier. Again, this is a message throughout all of his writings as you read them. ⁓ But he says in 15,8, for I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show that God's truthfulness in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As is written, therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles and sing your name. And again, it says, rejoice the Gentiles with this people. And again, praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and let all the peoples extol him. And again,

Jeramie: is the unifier. Again, this is a message throughout all of his writings as you read them. ⁓ But he says in 15,8, for I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show that God's truthfulness in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As is written, therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles and sing your name. And again, it says, rejoice the Gentiles with this people. And again, praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and let all the peoples extol him. And again,

Allen: the root of Jesse will come, even he who arises to rule the Gentiles and him or the Gentiles hope. Yeah, so the Gentiles belong. The Gentiles belong. They're God's plan. ⁓ so now how are you Jew and Gentile going to, ⁓ you know, love one another? And so you get this, except one who is weak in faith, but don't argue about disputed matters. So there's a whole bunch of issues in the Christian life where the scripture isn't explicit.

Jeramie: the root of Jesse will come, even he who arises to rule the Gentiles and him or the Gentiles hope. Yeah, so the Gentiles belong. The Gentiles belong. They're God's plan. ⁓ so now how are you Jew and Gentile going to, ⁓ you know, love one another? And so you get this, except one who is weak in faith, but don't argue about disputed matters. So there's a whole bunch of issues in the Christian life where the scripture isn't explicit.

Allen: And people have different consciences. And so we're called to accept those issues of conscience. ⁓ You know, I mean, what would be like issues of conscience? ⁓ Christians could... Halloween. Halloween. Should you trick or treat? Yeah. Should you let your kids read Harry Potter? Right. Is it okay for a Christian to have a drink of alcohol without getting drunk? Drunkenness is a sin. Right.

Jeramie: And people have different consciences. And so we're called to accept those issues of conscience. ⁓ You know, I mean, what would be like issues of conscience? ⁓ Christians could... Halloween. Halloween. Should you trick or treat? Yeah. Should you let your kids read Harry Potter? Right. Is it okay for a Christian to have a drink of alcohol without getting drunk? Drunkenness is a sin. Right.

Allen: If you're getting buzzed, you're getting drunk, you've crossed the line of sin. Yeah, TV shows. A TV show. ⁓ You know, political viewpoints is a huge one today. You know, well, if you're a Christian, then how could you possibly, you know, stand for a closed border or open border? You know, like, whatever, like Christians have these strong views on things. And so we have to accept one another.

Jeramie: If you're getting buzzed, you're getting drunk, you've crossed the line of sin. Yeah, TV shows. A TV show. ⁓ You know, political viewpoints is a huge one today. You know, well, if you're a Christian, then how could you possibly, you know, stand for a closed border or open border? You know, like, whatever, like Christians have these strong views on things. And so we have to accept one another.

Allen: Paul says, and not pass judgment on debatable matters. In fact, I love what he says in verse 22. He says, whatever you believe about these things, keep between yourself and God. I know, right? Yeah. And there's the thing at the bottom of chapter 14, everything that is not from faith is sin. Yeah. Back to your initial comment. It's all about faith. Yeah. I think that's, so that's, think one of the hardest things about this passage that it commands is like,

Jeramie: Paul says, and not pass judgment on debatable matters. In fact, I love what he says in verse 22. He says, whatever you believe about these things, keep between yourself and God. I know, right? Yeah. And there's the thing at the bottom of chapter 14, everything that is not from faith is sin. Yeah. Back to your initial comment. It's all about faith. Yeah. I think that's, so that's, think one of the hardest things about this passage that it commands is like,

Allen: ⁓ not causing your weaker brother to sin because their conscience might be different than yours. So there's a strong warning against ⁓ doing things that you know your brother's conscience doesn't allow him to do and therefore you're provoking them that that's sin because you're not doing it from faith but you're doing it out of I would say like a selfish ambition to promote

Jeramie: ⁓ not causing your weaker brother to sin because their conscience might be different than yours. So there's a strong warning against ⁓ doing things that you know your brother's conscience doesn't allow him to do and therefore you're provoking them that that's sin because you're not doing it from faith but you're doing it out of I would say like a selfish ambition to promote

Allen: oneself over maybe a different brother who has a different conscience. Yeah, yeah, you don't want to... The guy who feels like he can do something without sinning, he shouldn't look on the guy who doesn't and be like, like, what's wrong with you? You're so legalistic. And the guy who feels like because of his conscience can't do it, he shouldn't look at the guy whose conscience can and be like, that guy isn't serious about God. He doesn't love God. He's, you know, he's loose. He's worldly. He's going along with the times. Like, don't judge each other.

Jeramie: oneself over maybe a different brother who has a different conscience. Yeah, yeah, you don't want to... The guy who feels like he can do something without sinning, he shouldn't look on the guy who doesn't and be like, like, what's wrong with you? You're so legalistic. And the guy who feels like because of his conscience can't do it, he shouldn't look at the guy whose conscience can and be like, that guy isn't serious about God. He doesn't love God. He's, you know, he's loose. He's worldly. He's going along with the times. Like, don't judge each other.

Allen: ⁓ And don't cause each other to stumble don't don't like try to pull each other across that line of conscience. Yeah And that's hard to do it's hard to do it takes a lot of wisdom takes a wisdom And you know, I think especially in our days where people are so polarized where a natural reaction is to form factions Mm-hmm. think for us in a non-denominational church Yeah, people have lots of different it matters of conscience. It's Yeah, so maybe To make this really applicable ⁓

Jeramie: ⁓ And don't cause each other to stumble don't don't like try to pull each other across that line of conscience. Yeah And that's hard to do it's hard to do it takes a lot of wisdom takes a wisdom And you know, I think especially in our days where people are so polarized where a natural reaction is to form factions Mm-hmm. think for us in a non-denominational church Yeah, people have lots of different it matters of conscience. It's Yeah, so maybe To make this really applicable ⁓

Allen: How can we, say we want to grow in this and obeying our conscience yet being faithful towards others at SEC, how might you encourage brothers and sisters in our church to do this well? ⁓ That's a great question. I mean, certainly, I think, you know, meditate on these chapters. So give you a framework. Have a category in your mind.

Jeramie: How can we, say we want to grow in this and obeying our conscience yet being faithful towards others at SEC, how might you encourage brothers and sisters in our church to do this well? ⁓ That's a great question. I mean, certainly, I think, you know, meditate on these chapters. So give you a framework. Have a category in your mind.

Allen: for debatable matters. Like, make sure you have that category that there's some things that are gospel truths where we got stand on this, and if, you know, we take a stand and, you know, we'll go to the mat for it. But there's other issues that are not gospel matters that are debatable, not only just theologically, but just kind of like Christian life issues. And so have that category. And when you're having… you hear someone say something and you have a reaction inside of you,

Jeramie: for debatable matters. Like, make sure you have that category that there's some things that are gospel truths where we got stand on this, and if, you know, we take a stand and, you know, we'll go to the mat for it. But there's other issues that are not gospel matters that are debatable, not only just theologically, but just kind of like Christian life issues. And so have that category. And when you're having… you hear someone say something and you have a reaction inside of you,

Allen: Like step back and be like could it be that this is a debatable matter before I go full-on like judging that person Yeah, or gossiping about them or just being offended in my spirit. Mm-hmm. Yeah a helpful framework. It's been for me is ⁓ What's been called theological triage? Yeah, that's right in essentially it's

Jeramie: Like step back and be like could it be that this is a debatable matter before I go full-on like judging that person Yeah, or gossiping about them or just being offended in my spirit. Mm-hmm. Yeah a helpful framework. It's been for me is ⁓ What's been called theological triage? Yeah, that's right in essentially it's

Allen: The idea that drives from medical triage. We're on a battlefield. The nurses are going to go treat the worst injuries first before the minor ones You're gonna go the life-threatening injury is first before the walking wounded. That's exactly right Yeah, and so being able to like okay wait, where can I map this on is this like a life-threatening? Is this like well? That's kind of like a minor cut and what should I die on essentially you're finding the right hills to die on find the right hills and and I've often heard there's three tears and this is

Jeramie: The idea that drives from medical triage. We're on a battlefield. The nurses are going to go treat the worst injuries first before the minor ones You're go the life-threatening injury is first before the walking wounded. That's exactly right Yeah, and so being able to like okay wait, where can I map this on is this like a life-threatening? Is this like well? That's kind of like a minor cut and what should I die on essentially you're finding the right hills to die on find the right hills and and I've often heard there's three tears and this is

Allen: I didn't come up with this, but it's a hopeful category. Tier one is gospel issues where we must and be willing to divide on. You ⁓ know, the Trinity, ⁓ the death and resurrection of Jesus, penal substitutionary atonement, Jesus fully God, fully man. You go to the mat for that. Split a church over that. Justification by faith. By faith alone in Christ alone. Then there's tier two issues which are not gospel issues, but which a church has to decide one way or another.

Jeramie: I didn't come up with this, but it's a hopeful category. Tier one is gospel issues where we must and be willing to divide on. You ⁓ know, the Trinity, ⁓ the death and resurrection of Jesus, penal substitutionary atonement, Jesus fully God, fully man. You go to the mat for that. Split a church over that. Justification by faith. By faith alone in Christ alone. Then there's tier two issues which are not gospel issues, but which a church has to decide one way or another.

Allen: because you can't do it both ways. So, like for instance, baptism. You either do baptize infants or you don't baptize infants. You can't both do and don't on that. So a church has to decide. It's not a gospel issue, but it is an issue a church decide. And then there's tier three issues where we have to agree to disagree and there's debate on matters. And I think there's some practices, there's both theology and practice that fit into that third tier.

Jeramie: because you can't do it both ways. So, like for instance, baptism. You either do baptize infants or you don't baptize infants. You can't both do and don't on that. So a church has to decide. It's not a gospel issue, but it is an issue a church decide. And then there's tier three issues where we have to agree to disagree and there's debate on matters. And I think there's some practices, there's both theology and practice that fit into that third tier.

Allen: Do we take the supper once a month or every week? Yeah, those are things that people can debate over You know, you are you you pre meal post meal? Yeah, you know should should Christians recycle Yeah, you know like things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah people get fired up Yeah, and some people like yeah, this is part of God's care of creation and other people are like I don't care and you know, it's like so don't look at don't judge each other. Yeah

Jeramie: Do we take the supper once a month or every week? Yeah, those are things that people can debate over You know, you are you you pre meal post meal? Yeah, you know should should Christians recycle Yeah, you know like things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah people get fired up Yeah, and some people like yeah, this is part of God's care of creation and other people are like I don't care and you know, it's like so don't look at don't judge each other. Yeah

Allen: Yeah, there's definitely a humbling that has a humbling heart posh that has to come when you think about these things well Yeah, that's right. Yeah cool Any other concluding comments you just finished three bucks. I know as you're well done well done readers Yeah, that's right and first Corinthians is next after Romans first Corinthians it is ⁓ a Blessed mess a blessed church blessed mess. It's a blessed mess ⁓

Jeramie: Yeah, there's definitely a humbling that has a humbling heart posh that has to come when you think about these things well Yeah, that's right. Yeah cool Any other concluding comments you just finished three bucks. I know as you're well done well done readers Yeah, that's right and first Corinthians is next after Romans first Corinthians it is ⁓ a Blessed mess a blessed church blessed mess. It's a blessed mess ⁓

Allen: All right, well keep reading. ⁓ Keep asking your questions. We love your questions. ⁓ Yeah, send us an email. us aside after church and be like, hey, what about this? We love talking about this. ⁓ good. We love you guys. Keep pressing on. Jesus is with you and he loves you and he will be with you till the end of the age as you seek to fulfill the great commission that he's given for his church. This has been another episode.

Jeramie: All right, well keep reading. ⁓ Keep asking your questions. We love your questions. ⁓ Yeah, send us an email. us aside after church and be like, hey, what about this? We love talking about this. ⁓ good. We love you guys. Keep pressing on. Jesus is with you and he loves you and he will be with you till the end of the age as you seek to fulfill the great commission that he's given for his church. This has been another episode.

Allen: of the SEC Saver podcast. Follow us on Apple, YouTube, Spotify, share with your friends. Till next time, friends.

Jeramie: of the SEC Saver podcast. Follow us on Apple, YouTube, Spotify, share with your friends. Till next time, friends.