SUNDAY ALWAYS COMES | A POD W/ PASTOR RICKY & CHRIS

Hey everybody, what's going on? I am my name is Pastor Ricky and

this is. I'm Pastor Chris and I'm from

Freedom Church and Ricky's from. City Post Church right here in

Fort Worth, TX Actually for me it's half halt time, like halt

time Fort Worth line. But you know, we claim the funk.

And I'm in the West End. That's right.

And so, Ricky, man, tell us, tell everybody, what are we

doing here today? What's going on?

So, you know, a while back, just been praying about something

that the Lord's been impressing on my heart.

And I know Chris and myself, we're both pastors, but we're

also planted churches and just kind of praying, asking the Lord

to steer this thing. And really wanted to just begin

this podcast where we talked specifically about ministry

stuff, pastoral stuff, like stuff about planning churches

just from 2 normal guys who just said yes to Jesus.

Yeah, that's right. And I'm excited about it because

we've been in the churches together planting churches for

we launched in 2020, you launched in 2019. 20/18/2018 and

2018 That's right. And so we've been on this

journey of church planting and and finding out what Jesus wants

from us and what he's calling out of us.

And we've learned that church planting takes you into a whole

nother dimension. Oh yeah, it's not for everybody.

No, not at all. So it's it's been really, really

cool to connect with Ricky. And I mean, I'm excited.

Let's see what Jesus does. Not exactly.

And man, so let's just start there because I think our our

stories as far as church planning are similar, but I

think before into that man, I think it's it's really just

thinking about this whole idea of calling, you know, nobody

wakes up one day and they're like, you know, what would be a

great idea? Let's just plan a church so I

could be successful in life, you know, but a lot of it starts

with God calling you to the pastoral work.

So really we start there like your your story, like did you

always want to be a pastor? Did.

Yeah, man. So it's, it's one of those

things that I never wanted to be a pastor.

Actually, I never wanted to be. I, I grew up a worship pastor.

I've always loved doing worship. I've always loved doing that.

Still to this day, I still love doing worship.

But I never wanted to be a pastor because my dad's a

pastor, because my dad is a pastor.

I saw all the heartache that goes with pastor worship.

You know, you, I don't know a lot of people don't know this a

lot of times, But when you, you grow up as a kid and you see

your dad on a Sunday morning standing on the pulpit preaching

the word, it's kind of jaded. It's kind of, it's kind of

underline because you're like, I know what's actually going on

behind the scenes. I know the heartbreak.

I know like the words that have been said and and you still have

the courage and the boldness to stand before the people and and

give the word of God in that moment.

And so I always tell myself I would never do that, but I can't

deal with that. I don't want to deal with that.

Everybody likes to worship God. Everybody thinks he's cool.

Like, yeah, so I'll stay there and I'll do that.

And so I went out. I left my dad's church when I

about 2015 called to a called to a church out in Dallas.

And and like I said, well, this is what I've learned, man.

Never say never, right? It's true.

Never say never and that. Sense of humor, man.

Yeah, exactly. And so I go out to this church

in Dallas and you know, I meet this beautiful church out in

Dallas and they're, they're amazing.

And, and so I was the best musician at my dad's church.

I was the best one. I was the best singer, I was the

best musician. And then I go to this church and

everybody has a resume and everybody.

And when I mean resume, I mean like they were playing for big

names like the the the band was playing like that.

Bass players filling in for Stevie Wonder's bass player, the

Germans playing for Israel Houghton, the guitar player is

playing for Marcos Witt. You know, like these dudes are

accredited musicians. And then I show up and they're

asking me like, who did you play for?

And I'm like, I played for my dad, you know, like, and so and

then I go to this church and everybody in this church can

sing phenomenal singers. All of them are phenomenal

singers. And so I, I find myself in a

place where I'm like, Lord, like you're humbling me right now,

'cause I'm not the best musician here anymore and I'm not the

best singer. And I'm like, what do I do?

And Lord showed me in that season, like you're here to

teach them how to worship. That's what you're here for.

And you're here to bring them together and bring them together

as, as one so that they can worship me.

And that's where I fell in love with pastor.

I fell in love with people saying yes to Jesus and, and

lives being transformed and, and people actually understanding

what they're doing. But I didn't, I didn't want it,

but I just fell in love with, with people seeing Jesus and

saying yes. That's what I fell in love with.

And I wanted to take them from a moment of worship to a life of

walking with Jesus. And when that light turned on

man, it was like, oh, this is it.

This is what I'm called to because worship is great.

I tell people all the time, I love to worship.

Still to this day, I still love leading worship.

But there's something different about letting somebody

experience Jesus and then teaching them how to walk with

Jesus. And the pastoral role is that is

leading sheep to walk with Jesus.

That's all it is. And so that's when I knew I was

called. How did you know you were called

to it man? You kind of like you.

I mean, my parents were both youth pastors in, in Florida,

you know, Pompano Beach. And my mom was called in 92 and

then they, they felt like they had to become better equipped.

So that's what led us to Texas. So they were looking to go to

seminary and they moved us here in 9495, something like that.

And I was probably when some of you guys were just a thought in

the blueprint, but you know, like just grew up in the church,

always done youth ministry and, and really fell in love with it.

And so it's probably like a youth ministry team and and men,

I'll travel and do disciple now, weekends and camps and even

getting my undergrad. Like when I felt called in 2004,

I changed my degree. So I went from a kines to rec

and leisure because I was like, I'm always going to be with

students. So for those of us who don't

know what that. Means, oh, sorry, yeah,

kinesiology is like a sports degree or you could do like

sports management, you could get a physical training, you could

be a PE teacher, a coach, all that stuff.

But that's kind of what I was I was going for.

But then when the Lord called me, I was like, you know what,

first of all, I'm a terrible student.

Like it took me 8 1/2 years to get my undergrad.

Yeah, because I just kept failing and but I was like, I'm

always going to work with students.

So rec and leisure, I got that degree in program management.

So that's how you you learn how to do games and group dynamics

and you could run a ropes course if you want to.

All that stuff. Yeah, like it's just randomness.

And all my professors are like your brains worth 27,000 a year.

I'm like. Wonderful.

Yeah, so, but, but all of that in doing use, I just, I've

always loved the like the like the that generation, like seeing

young people give their lives to Christ, surrender to Christ and

be and, and and be in the church.

You know, I I just always felt that 2013 I really felt a call

to do that, like to to be more of the pastoral role.

My wife always told me I was going to be a youth director and

and I was like, Nah, I just want to work.

Let me just do what I'm doing now.

It's nice, but when I graduated with a master's in 2015, I

really felt that call in my life.

Like I really felt it. I didn't want to be a pastor

because my perceptions of what pastors look like, you know,

they all look like old, tired. I didn't, you know, just beat

up. Always had it with suits on.

And it was like, I don't want to wear suits when you wanna listen

to. Stuff you know.

But the desire in my heart was so strong and it was so evident

that God was calling me to this, even even to the point where I

was being asked to come and preach at like random, like just

random churches. And I was like, Lord, what are

you doing? That never happens.

And so really 2015 is when I surrendered to the calling of

pastoral ministry. And and that's when I just

started serving in that capacity.

I love. It so no, that's great, man, and

I think I know that we got a whole thing right now, but like

my, my biggest insecurity still to this day is preaching.

It's still my biggest insecurity just because I, I didn't grow up

preaching, you know, like I'm listening to your story right

now. Like, you know, you've been a

youth pastor, you've always been in front of youth and your

parents were youth pastors. And it's just like, how do you,

how do you prepare for something like that?

That you're going to, it's your job now to bring the word of

God. Like we were just talking about

it a few minutes before. It's like, now it's your job to

stand behind that pulpit and preach the word of God as a

pastor. Like what, what does that mean

to you? Like what does that look like

for you? It's a, it's a, it's a

heavyweight. I tell people everybody sees

preaching as like something sexy and everybody gets to see you

and you get to chop it up. And, and I think it's opposite.

I, I think the best way I heard it is like you're wrestling a

bear for a week. And so you're wrestling this

passage and then you have to deliver it to the people of God.

Like you're delivering the word of God to the, the revelation of

God to the people of God, regardless of how many people

are in their own. Like, there's, there's something

so important to it. And like you, I actually stutter

a lot. And everybody's like, I couldn't

tell. I was like, 'cause you don't,

you don't see me practicing 20 times, you know, in my garage,

walking in circles. I like, I'm not a good reader.

Everybody laughs at me whenever, like the big Bible names come up

and I'm like, yeah, Mr. L, I'm not going to, I'm not going to

pronounce this thing like. So it's, I take it very

seriously. And I'm a student of it.

I I always love to learn about it.

I always ask other pastors, like, how do you prepare?

Yeah. No, absolutely.

And I think, I think the word you use right now is a great

word. Everybody thinks preaching is

something sexy, It's something cool.

It's something like, oh, yeah, we, I, I want to do that.

And I, I think because, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but

my timeline and my, my, what's the word I'm looking for?

It's the, my algorithm. It's just filled with preachings

and pastors and this and this and it looks so cool.

And, but I don't think a lot of people understand the cost of

that stuff. That's.

A great point. They don't understand that how

long you actually sat with that text.

There's there's texts now that I'm still sitting with that I

have not preached because I, I haven't fully digested it yet.

And So what do you, what do you do when you've been sitting with

the text all week and you still haven't digested it?

You push it to the side and you do a whole nother sermon.

Yeah, right. Like that's, I don't know if

that's what you do, but I, I do that.

I push the text to the side 'cause I'm like, I haven't fully

grasped this yet and I don't want to present something half

heartedly that I don't even understand and just hope that

somebody else will understand it.

Bro and there's there's days like sometimes I hear and I get

it maybe down the line like these bigger like that preaching

teams and they have people and and they have to get everything

in by Wednesday as the the person needs to put it in.

No, listen, there's times, dude, like where I will, I will have

the text, I'll exposit it, I'll have the contact, all that

stuff. But like there hasn't been like,

OK, God, what? What do you want me?

And that won't hit till like Saturday where I'll just like

wake up at like 4:00 in the morning.

There's times where I'll, I'll wake up Sunday at like 5 or 6

and just pray and I'm like, I need a pen, you know, I need to

write something down. I got it.

You know, it's a yeah, man. It could be a beating sometimes.

Yeah, for sure. That's the and that's me, man.

That's literally me. I'll wake up, I'll, I'll sit

with the text all week, all week.

And I know where all the dots connect.

And it's one of those things, it's just like, OK, so this is

beautiful, but how do, how do I give it to somebody so that they

can use it? And so I I'll sit there and same

thing. I'll sit there up to 4:00 AM

praying, drinking cup, cup of coffee just in my office and

like lower, like you gave me all this.

What, what am I? What am I missing?

Right. That's exactly right.

And and that's why I said I was like, right now.

You said it perfectly. He said, yeah, you know, you got

to have it in by Wednesday. I'm like, man, I'm giving my

verses and all my stuff on Sunday morning.

Sometimes it doesn't work and I have like these little routines

in place that help me, you know, like, OK, by Monday or like

Sunday night, I'll copy and paste it on my laptop.

Monday I'll go verse by verse. Tuesday I do word studies.

Like it's just, and it's because of my schedule too.

So a little bit here and there, but man, there's there's just

some weeks where it doesn't hit till and then something else I

think that we have to touch on is as a pastor, and I know we're

kind of going down, but whatever.

Yeah, it's like. 'Cause I say, hey, you watch it,

You watch it. Yeah, it's.

Like you, you preach no matter what.

Yeah, Sunday. Sunday's always coming.

And there's been. And I remember a few years ago I

did a funeral for a 10 year old kid.

I got hit by a truck. And because it was an

investigation, the family couldn't see the child to like

the morning of and and and that I didn't realize how much it it

drained me or took out of me. And I remember showing up to

church and that was a Saturday preaching on Sunday morning.

And and I remember Monica looks at me and she goes, man, you

look white, like, like, like your face like there's

something. And it's like, yeah, I know it

used to have to show up. I mean, been sick.

There was one time where I was in the hospital Friday,

Saturday, it was just like a little minor thing, but I felt

I, I was so frustrated that I was in the hospital.

I couldn't wait to get to church on Sunday, you know.

So regardless of what happens in life, the word of God is going

to be proclaimed, you know? And you and that I think that's

even getting back on track, right?

Like, yeah, how do, how do you handle that as a as a pastor?

How do you handle that as a church planter?

You know, like you jump into church planting and once again,

we're, we're just two regular guys.

We're just trying to figure this thing out and we're trying to

welcome you guys into this journey with us.

But how do you figure that out? How do you go from, I wasn't

preaching every Sunday to now I'm preaching every Sunday and

doesn't matter what's going on in my life, Sunday's still

coming and there has to be a word.

And how do you learn to create that discipline in your life to

even when you're like, man, I don't feel like preaching.

I don't feel like doing it. My, my head is not in the right

place. My heart is not in the right

place. How do you, how do you stand

before people and, and still say this is what the word of the

Lord says? Yeah.

For me, it starts with prayer. I mean that that's the number

one thing And, and I'll be real. Like there's some days, and I

started this about two years ago when I drive to City Post, I

don't listen to any music and I just talk to Jesus.

I'm in my car and I'm like, all right, God, thank you for waking

me up. I just pray for and, and I'm,

I'm praying all the way till the time I pull in the parking lot

and, and just talking to the Lord.

But I've become more honest with my prayers.

So I think a lot of us are good at confessing things but like we

could easily get the habit of just confession and not being

honest with our emotions and feelings and like just talk to

Jesus. Like man I am not feeling it

today or man last night was rough or I am so tired.

Absolutely, man. And that's something I'm even

learning now is that's why Jesus says the Holy Spirit, he calls

him the Helper, right? And that's something that I

lacked a lot. And you know, I've done my due

diligence, I've done my preparation, I've done my study

and this and this and this, And all right now I saw it as Lord,

I'm going to present it to you. I'm going to give.

It to you. But what happens is I've done my

due diligence, I've done all this stuff, I've done my

preparation, but I'm tired. My mind, my mentally drained, my

heart is like been poured out all week.

I've gone to the hospital visit. I've done this.

Listen this but Jesus calls the Holy Spirit to help her and what

I'm learning right now is while I'm driving and so that's what I

said me and Ricky we're two different kinds of people.

Ricky's like I like to sit in silence and pray me.

I have to have worship music playing like I have to have it

on blast. I have to create that atmosphere

for myself because when I sit in this in the silence sometimes,

like everything that I've been hearing always comes back.

It comes back. So I have to eternal worship and

the most grateful prayer that I've learned in this season is

Jesus. You called the Holy Spirit, the

helper. So Holy Spirit, I need you to

help me. That's right.

That's what I've learned in this season because it's, it's one of

those things like you, you go from, I didn't preach for years

and now I'm preaching every week and now I have to carry this

weight. But I know that the Lord has

given it to me. That's why he says yoke is easy

and it's burning this light. It's not draining me, but I

don't want to present it incorrectly.

I don't want to say anything from my emotions because I've

been emotionally drained. I don't want to say anything

from my mind because I'm mentally drained.

So I don't want to speak from a place of anger or frustration or

weariness. And so that's where my prayer

this season has been. Holy Spirit, help me.

You're the helper. Help me.

Yeah. And then also like Speaking of

the Holy Spirit too, you know, the Holy Spirit is our comforter

and it's like, you can't be a comforter if you're comfortable.

So it's it's like a it's good that, that we're in that tension

of life where it's like, Oh my gosh, like here we go.

Because I think that's where that's where the Holy Spirit

shines. Like he, he, he just crushes us

with his grace and he gives it to us.

Also I think another way. As you're saying, it's like all

these thoughts, you know, when you preach, you are, you're

asking the Holy Spirit like, OK, what are you trying to show me

in the text? And, and you, you so I can

preach to yourself first. So what I started doing is that

so instead of I always like, Lord, give me a word for your

people, but then teach me something through your word.

And then really my, my points and my notes are what he showed

me. And then I share with the

congregation what the Holy Spirit convicted in my life.

And it's amazing how it works because then people come up to

you after when they're like, how'd you know?

You know, like why, why y'all nosy in my, my business, you

know, like, and really that's how the Holy Spirit works where

it's like, honestly bro, like I'm not even thinking about you.

However, you know, these are things that he showed me, but

the Word of God is just convicting, so it ties it all

together, which is pretty sweet. Yeah.

And I think for me, when I do that, I do men.

I think even when I preach for my own conviction, it can come

out harsh. Like, yeah, no, you're really

bad and that's real. And so I'll have to read my

sermon over and over and over. And I've, I've literally read my

sermon and like, you're so angry.

And so then I have, I will have to rewrite it and then I'll read

it again like you're so angry. And, and I, I see it as as the

peace of God, like coming over me, like, hey, you're beating

yourself up too much. Why are you doing that to

yourself? Stop.

You don't like there's grace, there's mercy, there's love for

you there. It's a conviction, but you're

beating yourself up too much. And if you're beating yourself

up when you preach, you're going to beat up other people.

And so that's where I'll have to look at my sermon before I

preach it over and over and over because I've done that too.

And I'm like, I'm preaching from a place of conviction.

And, and I'll say it from the I'm preaching to myself right

now, but I'll say it, but sometimes I can be really hard

on myself. And so it's like.

The way it comes out. Yeah, the way it comes out, it's

like I'm actually just angry at me.

I'm not angry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, people.

Like what's wrong? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, don't you know, you could go to.

It's so true we're. Terrible.

Friends so it's not bad, but that's what because it's like,

but I I think understanding church planting is is

understanding that you being called to be a pastor now yes,

you're called to be a pastor and the the pastor can't beat up the

sheep. Yeah, you can't do that because

yeah, because if you if a pastor beats the sheep, then the sheep

die. Yeah, that's what happens.

You you can abuse the sheep so much that they can die.

And so you want to be a gentle shepherd.

You want to be the Good Shepherd.

And that's where my heart goes back to is I get so nervous now

that I'm a church planter, you guys.

So I guess it's just one of those things that Jesus gives us

the same title that he calls himself.

He says, I'm going to call you to be a shepherd.

I'm going to call you to love my sheep.

That's what he did to Peter. Peter messed up.

Peter was terrible. Peter.

Peter denied him. And he said feed my sheep.

He was calling Peter a shepherd. And Peter heard the same sermon

about Jesus saying I'm the Good Shepherd.

Yeah. So the same title Jesus has, he

gives to Peter the same title that Jesus has, he's given to me

and you. And so Jesus says feed my sheep.

He doesn't say beat my sheep. Right, Right.

And that's, that's just a whole other.

Yeah. Place for me, man.

Yeah, you can't lead. You can't lead with force.

It's, and I know sometimes it comes off that way, 'cause I'll

be honest, like even even a conviction I've had is with City

Post I, I want to make sure I preach to men, you know, like

our, the men of our church. And what I discovered is like

with men, we want things direct, truthful and, and you know, like

all that emotional stuff does not fly.

So there's sometimes where like you, you try to drive a point

because you, that's in my mind, that's the audience, that's the

guy I want to hear this message. But I have to remember that, you

know, like there's all sorts of generations, all sorts of people

are all sorts of context. So you can't let that you can't

let that sway the message. So making sure that you stay

true to God's word. And also just one other thing I

learned. God's word does not need our

help, you know, like, and, and I used to do that.

I'd used to try to be provocative.

And I remember there was one Sunday I was preaching out of

Hebrews and I said something about Mary and I made a crack

about it. And I was like, Jeez, don't need

his mom, you know, like and, and I was just trying to be.

I was just don't. He don't need his mom like he's

God, you know, And there was some brothers in the back who

are Catholic. And I remember during one of our

car shows, he came up to me and he goes, you know, Ricky, like

my wife loves this place, like we love this church.

We, we haven't gone to church, but you know, like what you said

about like, we're Catholic and I and I, and I thought about it

and I was like, you know, and I apologize.

And I was like, I was just, I was doing too much.

I was like, you'll never hear me try to push something like that

again. And it wasn't that I was, it

wasn't about boldness. It was actually more about

you're trying too hard to draw attention to the Word, and God's

Word doesn't need our help. Yeah, that's absolutely right,

man. And I think we have to catch

ourselves as as young pastors and young churches, we have to

catch ourselves, like trying to make it and going back to that

word, trying to make preaching sexy.

I get to stand up on the pulpit and I get to be courageous and I

get to be bold and I get to preach the word of God for what

it is. And what pierces the heart, what

brings men to repentance, the Bible says, is the Lord's

kindness. And it's like, no, like I got to

say it how it is and, and, and Amen.

Well, we should, we should preach the word boldly.

We should. But if repentance is not

happening, then we haven't shown the Lord's kindness.

And that's what First Corinthians says.

He goes without love. It all sounds like just clanging

cymbals. So people are not going to hear

his word because they're not like he doesn't love me.

It's like he's, he's trying to like wag his finger at me and

they're totally going to be turned off by.

Man, that's good, bro. Like I said, and and like I

said, for everybody who's watching, we're, we're just

figuring all this stuff out. Yes, we really are.

We're trying to learn how to be pastors.

We're trying to learn how to carry the Lord's house.

We're going to learn how to lead people to Jesus and Ricky.

Ricky has done a phenomenal job, man.

Tell me about City Post, man. How did you guys start?

Yeah, no, it just I felt called to plant a church in like 2017.

I was serving at a local church here in Riverside.

It wasn't the healthiest place. And when plans went awry, it's

funny, like when you talk about like God's sovereignty.

And I think God uses everything for his glory and even these

crazy situations, you know, the truth was me and Rach, we were

actually going to sit down for about 3 months and we were going

to ask God what's next. So we were going to leave, we're

going to serve out. And then just just to just go

visit and see what was next. In that time, you know, I

started doing like more stuff in the city and I feel like I

became a missionary in my own city.

And I just started seeing people that didn't know Jesus, people

that hated God hanging out with them.

And I was like, man, what does it look like to be a pastor or a

church for these folks? And that's when it really

started to, to come into my heart.

So yeah, I just, I didn't know what to do.

I knew I was called to plant. So I grabbed like some of my

best friends, my parents, and I asked them, I was like, hey, I

feel called to plant a church. Do you guys see this?

Just tell me the truth. And my mom and dad, they were

the first ones. They're like, we want it.

Like let's do it. We want something different.

So that was the genesis of City Post Church.

And then we, you know, started with a Bible study.

And what about like 8 of us and walked through Nehemiah and

created like a blueprint. And just like I said, trying to

figure out I, I didn't have like training or which I wish I did.

If you're a church planner like it's, it's OK.

To get help, absolutely. And we all need it.

Even when I plan. I grew up in church, you know,

and, and I think us as church planters and preachers and

pastors and people who are gifted, just because you're

gifted doesn't mean that you're called to plant.

That's so true. I'll say that again, somebody,

just because you're gifted at preaching, you're gifted at

leading worship, whatever you're gifting is doesn't mean that

you're called to plant. And I think you said something

right now that I would highly recommend you do before you

plant, take a break. You said, you know, you were

going to take three months off. And that's exactly what me and

my wife did. You know, 'cause when you're in

church, man, you're, you're in church.

When you're serving, you're serving all the time and you

never truly get a chance to take a break.

And so when my wife and I decided that we were going to

come back to Fort Worth, our, our hope was not to come back

and plant. Our hope was just to come back

and help my dad again with this trash.

And, and So what we did was we took three months off.

We took three months off. And did you know when you're,

when you're in church man, you don't get to go visit any other?

Church. No, he's always on.

Yeah, he's always on. You always got to be there.

And so for three months we we went to visit other churches,

churches that we always wanted to go to on a Sunday morning,

but we never could. So, you know, we went to Upper

Room and we went to Fellowship and we went to a bunch of the

big churches, right. Like we want to see how the big

machines work, you know, like, you know, yeah, yeah, we just

wanted to go see. We want to see how it worked.

And I remember that that was like one of the best times for

me and my wife because we didn't, we didn't have the

obligation to serve. We didn't have the obligation

to, hey, come back and help us with this and this and this.

I mean, I got antsy at a bunch of churches that I went to, you

know, like they're like, hey man, can you come help?

And I'm just like, we got to leave.

Like I got to go. And it was like that.

So, but I remember it was like one of the best times and, and

me and my wife still have notes from all the churches that we

went to, like all the churches that we like, oh, we loved this

and this was great here and this and this, this.

And then we wrote like, don't judge us, but we wrote stuff

that we didn't like. You know, we wrote stuff like I

felt like I was like we were being herded, like like in some

churches that didn't feel too genuine.

Like, you know, you know, there's a story, man enough.

I didn't want to get in trouble for saying it.

But there is a big church that we went to.

OK. And I'm not going to say the

name. What does it rhyme with?

It was it was really, it was an amazing church.

It's a church that I had always wanted to visit.

And, you know, there's humongous parking lot, humongous

sanctuary. And I was like, man, like we've

never been here, waited years to come to this church on a Sunday

morning. And we walk in and the greeter

comes up to me and he goes, on behalf of the blah, blah, blah

of this house, I just want to welcome you.

And the restrooms are this way and the kids area is that way.

And the sanctuary will be seating in a few minutes.

Thank you. And I was just like, what's your

name? And it was like, it wasn't James

script. Yeah, it was a script.

And I remember leaving there and be like, and the but the service

was phenomenal, right? Like I love the service,

preaching, worship, everything was amazing.

But I remember. But like, and I just didn't feel

like and authenticity here. I didn't feel like, I didn't

feel like we were welcomed as family.

We just herded like cattle and so, so that was one of the best

times. So if you are considering being

a church plant, I would recommend me highly.

I would recommend take time off, spend time with your family,

spend time with your kids, because once you jump in, there

ain't no pause button. Yeah, there's no pause, but

Sunday is always coming. I think that's what we should

call this first Sunday. Sunday and Sunday's coming.

That's right. That's so true.

No, And I'm glad you said that because even when we started

meeting for Bible study, I mean, we met on Sundays at 5 and Rach

and I like we didn't go to any other churches, you know, we

waited for that Bible study. So our Sunday mornings were

empty. Like so we we hung out together

and, you know, we just had Elena.

So we were able to, you know, just kind of be the new mom and

dad, you know, and, and just live life for a little while

and, and that actually helped us to breathe and then also like to

seek the Lord because it's, it's really when, when you have that

calling on your life, you're like, OK, we're playing the

church, I think. And, and this is not to

anybody's fault. It's just, it could be human

nature. You start thinking about like

you just start looking on YouTube where you start to like,

OK, what can this thing look like?

And, and instead of just saying, OK, Lord, what are you?

Where are you guiding us to? Like what people who instead of

like having those thoughts, you think of the service.

It's like, Nah, man, it's like the beginning.

It's it's like, no, like where are you guiding us?

And I know for us at City Post, we said central N, So central N

is like river, Riverside, Diamond Hill, Northside.

So at first we were like, we're going to just focus all our time

and efforts in central North because we feel like that's

where the Lord is having us. And then over time, you know, he

directed us to to Riverside, but but we just started serving,

like we were just feeding people, hanging out with people,

feeding football teams, working in schools.

Like we were just everywhere, like all over that place asking

the Lord, like, OK, Lord, where, where is it?

Where do you want us? I love that.

Yeah, it was so after we came off of our like months of

looking around and just going to churches that we like because to

be honest, I I had never visited anywhere else.

Yeah, ever. And so that that was the first

time that me and my wife got to go do it.

And like I said, me and my wife are, we're worshippers.

Like we got to have the music off.

We got to have this stuff going to do it and we have to be.

So I was like, I don't even know.

I don't think me and my wife could just have a Sunday off.

We just like because we love the atmosphere of being in worship

and being in corporate worship together.

And I think we've always loved that.

And so when we finally came back, our hope was, you know,

the church is great. Like it's, that's amazing.

And we launched in 2020, we launched in COVID.

So we're like, we, we can't even have service if we wanted to,

you know, like, and so that's where we sat down and said, OK,

we, we know what kind of atmosphere we want.

We know what kind of culture we want, but we don't want to be a

church that's an inward looking church.

And so our hope was how do, how do we reach people right now in

this season without being able to gather?

We can't gather, you know, like, and so we just started hitting

Diamond Hill area because that's what we planted because my dad

was a pastor in Diamond Hill for years and years.

And he had a building. And so we went there with my dad

and my dad was like, you know, hey, I'm too old to start over.

You know, the world's over, the world's over.

I can't start over. You take the ball and run with

it. So we said, well, that's not

fair. How how are we going to take

over? And we can't even gather right

now. So, so kind of the same story,

you know, reach out to a lot of my really good friends, people

that I had done ministry with before and loved them.

And I remember telling them I was like, but we're not going to

be a church that just looks inside.

We can't be yeah, especially not right now.

Got to be outreach. And so we, we started just doing

little outreaches around Diamond Hill where we could actually

reach people. And so one of our first

outreaches was, you know, we went to the laundry mat that's

down the street from us, and we gave out dryer sheets and soap.

And we'd be like, you know, hey, here you go, man, we love you.

We're from the church down the street.

And we'd hand it to them and we'd be like, you know, and

yeah, yeah, yeah. Just take.

That and then and then just threw it in Rand.

Yeah. And so then we have our first

Easter as as a church and it's 2020.

We can't gather, we can't do anything.

So we we're like, how do we touch the community?

And so we went to a three thrift store and we bought hundreds of

Easter baskets, hundreds of them, and we just filled them up

with eggs. And what we did is in Diamond

Hill, we just went around every single house and we put a bag

basket full of eggs in their front yard and say we can't

gather but have an Easter egg hunt on us.

And so we would do that. And so whenever the doors open

in 2021, our church just got flooded, just packed with people

in. And I think COVID did a lot in

that in the church that year, because I feel like it gave

people an opportunity who had been wanting to find some place

near to actually go someplace near.

And so when our doors open, it just flooded with people.

That's great. Go fast.

And but at the same time, we didn't want to.

It's been and it's so easy to just become an internal looking

church. And so our heart just continued

with outreach. And, but everything that we had

learned from those 90 days of just me and my wife going to

these other churches and looking is like we're welcome.

We're welcoming people in now. Now what?

What do we want them to walk into?

And so, so for those of you who think that church planting is

just preaching and the service on Sunday morning, it's a lot

more than that because everything matters when they

walk into your, to the, the church plant that you're

offering, everything matters. And I don't know about you man,

but I've heard so many people say like, they'll come to your

church plant or they'll come to your church.

And like I said, we're going all the way off script right now,

but they'll say stuff like, I want something that's just a

little bit more established. And that's, that's almost like

sometimes like that's the biggest heartbreak ever because

you're like, I wish people would understand.

Like we're not established. We just we don't have all the

bells and whistles. Right, that's right.

And and to your point about like understanding what's the church

that we want to be, because I know when we went into the

middle, we were meeting at Charles Nash Elementary School.

RIP, they're shutting them down. But anyway, thanks forward.

But when we got in there, our heart was for the city and we

one of our our ministry verses was Jeremiah 29 seven, which

was, you know, seek the welfare of the city, pray to the Lord on

its behalf, because in its welfare or well-being you 2 will

find it. So we were asking ourselves,

what does it look like for us to seek the well-being of the city?

And then also like Mark 1516, preach the gospel to all

creation. So like, what does it look like

for the gospel to revitalize dead places?

And we wanted to use our money for that.

And so we decided early on that we weren't going to spend a lot

of money on things that we're going to be hard to sustain.

So, and I know I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but

I'm going to say it. Let's go.

So we are not going to do pipe and drape.

Come on. People are like, this gym is

huge and there's only like a few of us and it's going to feel so

out of whack. And Oh well, like, you know, I'm

saying like that's not that we're not trying to build.

We we're not trying to attract church coers.

We want, we want make disciples. So a lot of like the money we

bring, bring in, yeah, we used it for equipment stuff we need,

but the rest of it went out to feed people, work on the art

court, you know, revitalize places people aren't eating and

COVID, bro. Like that was a, you know, like

we, we went to Greenwood Greenway, which is a

neighborhood by Charles and Ash. And we just went and gave people

groceries. Like we knocked on their door

and people are just hungry for human interaction.

And so so decide. But we had a lot of people stick

their head in that gym. Oh, you guys do new church and

they look around and be like, never saw them again.

You know, they're like, yeah, ain't about this life.

They're like, where's your kids ministry?

Oh, just follow up, Miss Eileen. They're going to the portable

right now. So there wasn't anything because

we were just building. We're just trying to figure out,

but that's, that's who we wanted to be.

So it wasn't that we were not organized.

I'm not like, don't hear me. Like we had a plan.

We had teams, we had trainings, but it was on the the external

piece that we were like, you know what, that could wait.

No, absolutely, man. And that's that's why I said you

should go into church planting with a plant, right?

And that was really that that three months that me and my wife

went out. It's like we were trying to

create a plan, like what does it look like?

What is necessary and what is not necessary?

And so it's like one of the biggest things that we learned

was, you know, kids ministry you have to have.

You got to. You have to have a kids

ministry, must your, your facilities has to be able to

withhold kids ministry, you know, a place for people to

gather some sanctuary. And then one of the biggest ones

that we flew under the radar that we weren't ready for was

parking. That was the biggest one.

And for those of you who are planting a church and you're

doing it in your house, it's not going to last very long because

people can't park. And if they can't park, they

would just drive away and. They're not going to park three

blocks away. And so that was that was the

biggest one. It was like our parking lot was

really small, very, very small. And so when the doors flooded

open in 2021, we only had like 20 parking spots.

And so I remember our team was like, we had an amazing team and

we still have an amazing team. They were literally playing

Tetris with all these cars in our 20 parking lot, parking lot.

And, and I would always get the the news like, yeah, man, we had

like 15 cars pulled in. They couldn't park till they

just left. And, and so for those of you who

wanted to plant churches, I'll say it again, everything

matters. All of it matters.

And but this is how you know that you're called to it because

you care everything you care. You don't just care about your

preaching on Sunday. You care about how's it going in

the kids? How's it going in the welcome?

Like, how's is the parking lot packed?

Like, what do we got to do? You care.

And that's that's what a shepherd is.

A shepherd is not just a guy who stands up on the platform and

says, Hey, look at this really cool preaching that I I made.

No, it's like I checked up on my kids ministry.

I checked up on the parking lot team.

I checked up on everybody because they're all the people

that the Lord has given to me. He's he's trusting me with.

That and so, and I think that there's another element that we

haven't talked about, like when you talk about like church

planners, is this, am I giving God the best that I have come

on? And the thing with church

planning is that it's really easy to get into a space and

say, we're not even going to be here that long.

We're going to be here for like a year.

So let's just do bare minimum. And we're going to we're going

to skim on things because I'm saving for a bigger space.

And I know I was convicted and when we moved into, we found a

little liquidation store in 2021, had no business being in

there. We hustled our way in.

But I remember when we first started, I was looking around

and like we had our speaker set up and cables everywhere.

And I just felt like this is the Lord's house.

It doesn't matter where. It's like the presence of God is

going to gather here. Is this the best I could give as

a pastor? And the answer was no.

I was like, I could do much better.

And I was like, so like, man, you work hard, you know, and

it's and, and nobody, people are not going to understand that

unless they pastor, you know. Yeah.

And I think that's that's one of our biggest thing is, is it's

not even just, I don't know about you, man, but I, I still

do this. Like sometimes I just, I just

walk through the sanctuary and I'm looking at stuff and I'm

like, man, we could do better with that.

We have to fix this. We can do that.

And it's not that we're being nitpicky and it's not that we're

being perfectionist, but I think I understand is like, this is

not my house. And I think that that happens a

lot. Like, this is not mine.

Like I can't just be like, yo, I just throw my shoes wherever I

want to. Like, it's my house nose.

Like this is still the Lord's house.

And. And I think that that urgency,

that sense of urgency between pastors is vital because if I

don't honor the Lord's house, if I don't, there's cables

everywhere, but I don't really care.

It doesn't matter then then the rest of your team will feel like

that. And so.

Yeah. And, and I think one of the

most, most dangerous things that you can say as as a a church

planner, as a pastor is it's not that serious, you know, and,

and, and that is, yeah, yeah, it's like, so when you look at

something like, you know, that's not that serious.

It's like we would get over it. And that's very dangerous

because then that begins to bleed into the culture of your

church. And.

And we want to give God our best.

And so, and I just, I think that's something that people

don't really understand. It's not that, Oh my gosh, like

we're trying to get people in here.

No, dude, the Lord does that. Yeah.

But it is. You want to honor the Lord.

It's like leading with that fear of God.

And I want to give God the best I have.

Yeah, that's what I said. And that's why when anything

concerning the Lord, anything concerning His and never want to

say, no, it's not that serious. Yes, because it still belongs to

him. Exactly.

Every every chair, every pants, every cable, every speaker,

every classroom, it all belongs to him.

And then I'm like, no, it's not that serious.

Like that's that's a terrible like that.

Like when you said that right now, it's like, oh, like,

because I've heard that before, you know.

And so, yeah, I just want to encourage you guys as church

planters like me and Ricky are talking right now.

But this is how I know that Ricky is called the plant and

I'm called the plant because all of it matters not because it's a

presentation. It's not a presentation to

people. It's the Lords.

And we want to Stewart what the Lord gives us.

The Lord doesn't just give us people, but he's giving us.

Resources. Yeah, everything.

Chairs, speakers, cables, everything.

He's given it to us, but it all comes from him.

And so when I say stuff like it's not that serious, yeah,

then the Lord's like, why can't trust you with anything, right?

Yeah, because you don't take it that serious.

And so that's why I know that I'm called.

That's how I know Ricky's called.

Because, yeah, we don't just we're not just worried about how

many people are showing up on Sunday.

We care about all of it. We care about every single piece

of it because it all belongs to the Lord at the end.

Oh, man, that's great, bro. Yeah.

So like, I guess if there's a a young pastor, a young church

planner, if there's somebody that is thinking about getting

in the ministry role, what would be maybe something that you

would tell them that might be like a hidden, like a snake in

the grass or something that they might not see to be aware of?

Yeah, I would say if you feel like you're having this call to

become a church planter or pastor, The biggest thing that

I've learned for myself, and we've talked about this before,

Ricky, the call of pastor is the call to die.

That's so good. That's what it's called.

The the pastor is called to die, the shepherd is called to die.

And and that's straight from the voice of Jesus.

Jesus said, I am the Good Shepherd.

And the Good Shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

That's right. And so when you call yourself,

when you put that label of shepherd on you, the Jesus only

represents one kind of shepherd and it's the Good Shepherd.

And so when you say I'm going to become a shepherd, your whole

job is to mirror the Good Shepherd.

And so if you're not prepared to die to yourself, if you're not

prepared to die to your pride and your unforgiveness and die

to this celebrity mindset and sexy preaching, if you're not

prepared to die to that, the Lord will put somebody else

there that will do it. And that's, that's been my

biggest take away from from doing this.

This, that's the snake in the grass, is you have to learn to

die to yourself more than everybody else in your church.

And if you're not ready to do that, then what you're going to

do is you're going to end up hurting yourself and you will

hurt people. That's true.

That's what will happen because you didn't want to die to

yourself, even though the Good Shepherd is supposed to lay down

his life. That's good, man.

Yeah, and I think for me as I'm as I'm listening to that

because, man, I love it. You said that a lot of people

think like died of my sin. I was like, yeah, but you're

talking about dying to your dreams, your wants, your future

plans. I would even say you're saying,

Lord, my kids belong to you. So whatever you want to do with

them, you can do it. Like that's that, that gives me

ghost pimples, bro. But it's, it's but when I think

something to be aware of, like I think some of that the Lord's

been showing me lately is that I wish I would have known earlier

is anything that causes division.

So as you're planning your church and as you're anything

that divides the body, you got to attack it.

You you have to go after it and you have to eliminate it because

you know, Jesus says the world's going to know that y'all belong

to me by how you love each other.

And then we see it all through Scripture like there's nothing

greater than a United Church. So if there's something in the

church that is causing a division, you have got to go

after it, you know, and it could be anything.

It could be like something somebody said.

I mean, it could be like equipment sound like.

I think the enemy uses anything, anything to just infiltrate the

body of Christ, to cause people to fight each other.

And I think that's the that's the biggest thing, man.

Even you you saying that is because it's the passage job.

Yeah, it's the separate job. And I think that even as church

planters, this was this is a really big immaturity of mine

when I first started. But it was like, why can't we

all just be happy? Like, why can't we all just have

a good time? Yeah, exactly.

But it, but it was just like, like, I I didn't want to be

confrontational. I didn't want to have to do that

because I was just like, oh, we're barely growing.

Like we're barely starting, but I didn't know that it was the

Lord testing me to say like, there's a wolf in there and the

only one who can get the wolf out.

It's not the sheep. That's true.

It's the shepherd. The shepherd has to get it out

because the wolf is what causes division.

The wolf is what causes fear in the church.

That's the wolf. And the only person who can

knock it out is the shepherd. And so the Good Shepherd has to

go in there and lay down his life.

That's right. And take out the wolf.

And I mean, division is a big thing, man.

Even when you first start, some people think that, Some people

think it's, you know, years down the line, no.

It's right away. Like it's, it's immediately,

yeah. 'Cause everybody, everybody or

people think like, I can do it better, I can do it better.

And we have to understand, it's like we're called to die when we

do this. And even like people that come

into the church, we've had this happen a few times where it's

like, oh, this poor little Hispanic church, they don't know

what they're doing. They're so, and, and you know, I

heard that there's a term like they call them pirates, you

know, but they'll come in and then just start kind of like

whispering stuff into people's ears and like trying to like

infiltrate leadership and, and try to lead you in a different

direction. You're like, hold on a second.

You know, it's like, no, no, no, no, like we, we know what's

going on. So you as a pastor, you have to

fight that and you can't just like like how you said that

because I was like that too, where no, let's just, you know,

be kind, you know, then you're like, no, you have to like call

that out. And we've had to do that a few

times. And it gets easier as you go.

It's hard at first. And that's why it's sometimes

it's the worst like feeling. But now I'm starting to learn

like, I thank the Lord for that stuff because I think the Lord

that he provokes us as shepherds to, to actually step in because

he's, he's, he's literally asking you, will you take care

of the sheep that I gave you? And he's provoking you to

actually take a stand and do something.

And we're like, oh, like we, we just started like, I don't want

to, I don't want to mess this up.

And but what it's done for me, it's given me a boldness to, to

love the Lord's sheep. Like that's what it's done.

It's given me a courage to be like, no, we're like, we're not

going to allow that in here. And and we call it out fast.

We don't, we don't just like, like what let's let's play this

out. This, this, this I, I have

gotten a boldness to where I'm like, I've seen this before.

Oh yeah. And now I can address it a lot

quicker than I used to because before it was like, well, let's

just see. Let's just see what if they if

they keep doing it or let's just see if that those words keep

going. But now it's like, oh, I've seen

this before and I know how to stop it.

I know how to grab the staff and be like, hey, this is not this

is not happening. Yeah.

And. I and I'll give you an example,

like we had a lady come in like a year and a half ago, but she

just started showing up out of nowhere.

And then she just like came into like our, our Sunday morning

prayer meetings. But if something was off, like

we could all sense it. Like my spirit kind of felt it

said some off off the wall things.

And then, you know, try to sell some of her books.

And like, I looked at her website and it was very like,

like America, you know, like, yeah, like Christian

nationalist. And.

But my final straw was that she showed up.

We had our next steps class for people that wanted to join the

church. And she just like, pops in there

and hasn't been coming very long.

It's like, how do you like, there's some.

And I just asked her. I was like, hey, you know, this

is for people that are serious about getting to know our

church, so I'm going to have to ask you to go.

And I was like, but you come to our service.

It's just like these meetings are for that.

Yeah. She never came back again.

Yeah. And I think she finally, like,

realized, All right, I, I can't do what I want here, you know?

No, absolutely. And there there's those people

that do that man, and they bounce from church to church.

Yeah, that's true. And they're, they're looking for

a place where they, where they will be, and I hate to use this

term, but a place where they, their giftings will be

entertained and that. And it's like, and then you come

to like a church plant and like all they need me here.

That's right. I could.

I could blow this thing. Yeah.

Yeah. And and so that's why even as a

young church planter, I, I thank the Lord for those opportunities

because it's like he's giving you a chance to be a shepherd.

He really is. He's giving you an opportunity

to be a shepherd, to take care of everybody else in the church.

And I had something not similar, but something that happened like

that in our church plant as well.

And I had to had to give correction in a way where it was

in a loving way, but it was firm.

And I remember, I remember calling my wife after I did

that. And I was like, yeah, I just

told him like, they can't do that.

And they if they if they don't like that, then they they would

have to go. And they were like, and they

just hung up. And I told my wife I was just

like, I'm like after I, after I had done that first initial

confrontation, I told my wife, like, man, I wish somebody else

would get out of line now, like. Because I'm ready now.

I'm. Ready now, like because I guess

it was that first one, first implementation that you're like,

you know, like I didn't know it was going to come so soon.

And then you do it. You're like, alright, Lord, like

now I feel, and now I feel like you've given me a staff.

Like now I feel like, like you've given me the authority to

do that. And because you forget like,

like if and so I'll say this, and I know we're about to cut it

off here, but I'll say this for those of you who are church

planters, you understand the weight of all this.

So the weight of this is when the church does well, people say

that's a great church. When the church doesn't do well,

people say that's not a good pastor.

So I'll say that again. So you understand why.

Yeah, when the church does well, people will say, man, that is a

great church over there. They're doing great things.

But when the church does not do well, what they will say is.

The pastor's not doing great. Yeah.

It's, it always rises and falls with leadership.

And if your eyes are not on Jesus the entire time, Oh yeah,

the church is not going to do well and all the eyes will be on

you. And so I need, I just want to

encourage you guys right now as you are planning to plant a

church, are you praying about planting a church?

Me and Ricky are already in it. I've been in it six years.

Ricky's been in IT 8, right? And we're just telling you what

we've already seen already, and I want to encourage you.

Is your eyes on Jesus or is it on the platform?

That's good bro. Is your eyes on serving the Lord

and being a shepherd or is it being a star on Instagram or a

star on Facebook or having, you know, reels about yourself?

Like you need to really check your heart and check yourself.

And I can say, Lord, is this something that you're calling me

to? Because if you're calling me to

it, it's going to make me look more like you.

It's going to make me look more like the Good Shepherd.

It's going to cause me to die to myself more and more and more.

And I guess I, I could finish this with with this question to

you is like, Are you ready to die?

Yeah, yeah. And I mean all I got.

I love what you said and I really give your life and last

thing and then we'll pray. Just remember Colossians one

Jesus says I'm the head of the church.

So what Chris says, right? It's like, is this going to make

you look more like Christ or make you look more like

something else? And remember, anything without a

head is dead, but anything with two heads is a monster, so.

Say that again. Yeah, I mean, anything without a

head is dead, but anything with two heads is a monster.

So if Jesus is the head of the church, it's not you and Jesus

that the church belongs to, it's Christ.

So Chris and I both understand. Like, because we're going to die

to ourselves. Freedom Church is not Christmas

church, right? City Post is not Ricky's church.

Yeah. It all belongs to Christ.

Yeah. And we follow his Lordship.

Amen. So, man, when with that.

This was good, bro. Yeah, bro.

You want to pray us out? Yeah, let's pray.

Let's pray. Lord, I thank you.

I thank you for this opportunity that I just get to sit here with

my brother. Yeah.

And talk about your goodness, Lord, and how you're challenging

us and how you're taking us from one level to another level,

Lord. And Lord, I ask you that you

would just keep our eyes on you, keep our hearts towards you.

Lord, I thank you for anybody who watches this.

Lord, I ask you that it would build them up, that it would

edify them, that it would challenge them, Lord, to love

you. Not to be a church planter, not

to be a pastor, but that they would learn to love you more and

more and to understand, Lord, that that you are with them and

you are for them and that you love them.

So Lord, I thank you for this time.

We love you and we praise eat in Jesus name, Amen.

Yeah, man. Love you guys.

We love you guys.