Through Thick & Thin: Compassion Fatigue

Music.

Hey, welcome to the City Rev Life podcast. My name is Roby.

I am here with Pastor Darren Bennett, my guy. Yes.

And we are talking about a lot of things, especially on empathy, particularly.

But there's a lot of reasons why you're the guy to ask this question,

because for several things.

For one, Darren's a pastor, so in your calling as a pastor, you have the demand

of empathy, walking through people's pain. But you're also a chaplain for BSO.

Yes. So in a way, you're pastoring all of BSO, I mean, in a sense.

5,900 employees as an associate chaplain.

Yes. That's crazy. And so whenever something is going on in one of the families

of a BSO officer, I mean, you're there.

And I know as my brother, hearing what you walk through, there's a lot there.

So second thing. Third thing, though, is this is something that you're thinking

about, you've written about. out.

So before we go into this, you've got this summer, hopefully a book coming out.

Just tell me real quick about that.

Well, first and foremost, I want to say thank you for bringing me back.

It's the third time. Absolutely, man. City Rev is a whole vibe.

And so to be able to come back three times, you're in.

I'm a part of the essence of the fabric of City Rev and you know,

I love you so much. I love you too, bro. You bleed City Rev coral, man. All day.

I didn't wear the hat like Moochie did. My boy Moochie had the hat on.

He represented, but still it's in my blood it's right it's your blood

so thank you for asking about the forthcoming book

so yes tell us about it it's an addendum to my first book the first book was

i'm a brother's keeper uh paying homage to my relationship with my brother my

late brother who died in the line of duty at bso that book was about grief and

navigating through our personal relationship this now four years later is god's

providential timing to the degree that i was going through many other things.

On the heels of my brother's death, that God in his grace turned around.

In other words, he turned my pain into purpose.

He taught me through his love and grace how this tragedy would turn into triumph.

Now that doesn't mean that I don't miss my brother. That doesn't mean that I'm

not still in the process of healing, but the book is gonna be titled,

Pain to Purpose, subtitle, Choosing to Fall Forward Instead of Backwards.

And the hope is to get it out either this summer or at the latest of fall.

And again, it's to help people navigate through that space of healing and how

we can take the pain and watch God providentially turn that into purpose.

So people who are, maybe you're watching or listening and people who have walked

through pain are walking through pain, are seeking for the redemption of that,

that getting turned around and redeemed. Yes. This would be a great book for them.

It is a book for anyone who in any sphere of life, whether you're a Christian,

non-Christian, if you've experienced pain or tragedy, we take biblical principles.

Break them down into what is super practical and help people see that,

yes, there is purpose through that pain. And it ultimately points to Jesus Christ.

I love that, man. All right, and then just real quick, and then we're gonna

jump into this. How do they find

that? Should I just follow you on social media? Is that the easiest way?

Yeah, the best way to find that is when it drops.

If you're following me on social media, you'll know because we're putting out

little small teasers now, almost like every other week until it comes out.

So yes, follow me on social media.

Awesome, which is what? but Darren Bennett, 82 on Instagram,

Facebook, just search Darren Bennett. Yeah. So yeah, you can find us there.

Okay. All right. That's awesome, man. Very excited for you on that.

And, and just for, for, for our, our community to be able to have access to those thoughts.

We're talking about empathy in our series, but specifically the reason why Darren,

you're the guy for this subject is I want to talk about, uh.

As we're, as we're dealing with With empathy, there comes a place where we can

get what sometimes is called compassion exhaustion.

Yes. It's where you, you're walking along with someone, you're empathizing with

someone. And at some point, like you just don't.

Feel it anymore. Like it's hard to just keep going. I could think of like,

maybe there's, maybe it's teachers that, that they just, they're,

they're walking with needy students or maybe they're a first responder.

Maybe it's, or maybe it's like the, a spouse of, of someone who's got a lot

of needs going through a long season of difficulty or medical difficulty,

or maybe a parent of a special needs child.

I mean, that requires a lot of constant empathy.

So just for for starters, let's just talk about what is that compassion exhaustion?

What is that like? I know you as a pastor and a chaplain have to extend constant empathy.

Just at least just talk to us, what's it like, compassion exhaustion?

What does that feel like? How do you know when you're feeling that?

Yeah, man. So typically, as you just suggested, a lot of people in the field

of caregiving experience that mostly.

It's something that is very subtle. It doesn't just hit

you over the head it creeps up over a course of time and so

yes as you're constantly in the space

of taking on and absorbing people's trials and and tragedies and emotions and

trauma over time you can begin to feel a sense of helplessness you can find

yourself as you absorb these traumas feeling sleepless.

In a sense hopeless and then one of

the most i think what i've and i'm telling you from what i have felt before

yeah my personal experience i've been through this and and could even be in

it now and not not even know it because it's subtle right yeah so pray for me

but like a numbness and and and numbness happens through the the the psyche

of the human being who goes through,

constantly giving care it then becomes this

defense mechanism so i've been in

a place where i've heard mothers crying over their their their

child i've been in spaces where i've seen people

grieving deeply and i've gone from being able to cry with them as the bible

says we weep those who weep to not feeling anything and wondering is everything

is everything okay with me like is there something wrong right and then there's

the physical part of it like nausea dizziness like Like all of those attributes

come with compassion fatigue.

Wow. So it's the feelings and probably those who are walking through this,

it's like, hey, I just, I've just gotten numb to it. Like I can't feel that pain anymore.

It's, you know, I've been walking with my spouse is going through significant

issues or my child is going through significant issues and I just,

I just don't feel it with them anymore.

I'm just numb to it or maybe even resentful about it. Irritability is another thing.

Key attribute of of compassion fatigue yeah and and and then you talk about

the defense mechanisms maybe you just kind of instead of running to you're running

away you just can't take anymore and then a couple other things you mentioned

sleeplessness things like that anxiety anxiety,

yeah okay so then walk us through like what are some so you've you've walked

through that as i can imagine yeah walking through just a lot of pain i you

know and as a pastor i felt that as as well.

And while you and I are pastors, both of our wives, interestingly,

are licensed clinical social workers. Yeah, LCSWs. So they're professionals.

Darren and I joke that God knew both of us needed full-time therapy in our lives.

We needed full-time therapists assigned. Okay.

God is so gracious, isn't he? Yeah. He knew we needed it. We were- So merciful.

Yeah. So actually our wives probably have compassion exhaustion from dealing

with us all the time. Oh, absolutely. They should be on this podcast. Yes. Okay. Anyway.

So someone's walking through that, they're like, hey, they're saying,

I have felt that before. Or I'm feeling that now.

And they're actually, and maybe they're just kind of realizing,

man, I don't want to feel this. I don't want to be numb.

I don't like what I'm, but I don't know how to recapture it.

What would be just you speaking from your personal experience as a pastor,

what do we do if we're feeling that compassion exhaustion?

How do we, another way of saying it, how do we keep our hearts kind

of to soften to empathy or soften them up again yeah uh

talk about it like a lot of times we take

those feelings and we hoard them inside and don't

speak about it and then not only should we

speak about it so therapy is not a bad thing yeah let me it's okay to go to

therapy right so speaking about your feelings can we sit on that for a second

yeah we we often talk about this people who go to counseling the stigma is weak

people go to counseling but i think it's wise wise people that go to counsel.

That's good. Because in Proverbs, it says that in an abundance of wise counselors.

Wise counselors. That's a wisdom.

There's safety in the multitude of wise counselors. And so what typically people

do is they're getting counsel, but they're talking to a bunch of people or they're

just venting on social media in unhealthy ways.

Yeah, yeah. It's a horrible outlet. Do not vent on social media, please. Yeah.

Instead, go seek counseling and go seek whether, go sit with a ministry leader

or pastor, but also go to a therapist, Go to a trained professional like our wives are.

We have a high value for that. Shameless plug. Yeah, absolutely.

And go sit with a therapist. It's what wise people do.

Okay. So number one, talk about it. Get it out. Yep.

And then, so in talking to one of my therapists, I have been given the encouragement to work out.

Like literally that the endorphins that come from being in the gym have been

extremely and mentally helpful for me. So my, my physical physique,

my, what, what, what people see outwardly is not out of vanity.

Like I, I really can care less about my, my actual physical physique.

Let me not say that. I do want to be.

Physically fit but what is seen is not

because i'm literally trying to be like

this jacked huge muscle-bound guy like i'm in the

gym as often as i'm in the gym because it's

saving my life mental health reasons mental health reasons

literally yeah and so working out has been my safe haven i've

even got to the place where and i've said this on a video

that i put out on one of my youtube channels if you see

me in the gym with my hood up that means just

give me 37 minutes of me time because when

when you're you're in a space of always helping people you're

you're in in essence like a public figure and then

you you go work out in the gym where you work and

people are in and out of there they see it that

as an opportunity to come in and fringe unwittingly like

hey i get an appointment with the chaplain now right it's like no

i'm actually trying to refuel so that i can actually help

you so give me that 37 minutes so so working out

is is a major proponent of mental health and

and just the endorphins that are released are helpful for me so that's

been my outlet it's literally talking about

it working out and then having a place where I can

have quiet meditation we talk about that as Christians in the morning like morning

devotions like what where are you releasing that right the Bible says cast your

cares your anxieties on me because I care for you he who was heavy laden burden

my yoke is easy my burden is light and so ultimately it points back to Christ

it's like I'm talking to to a therapist.

But at the end of the day, my therapist does not trump nor truncate my relationship with Christ.

I'm speaking to him about my issues and he's ultimately refueling me as well, so.

I love that, I love those three things. One, you gotta get it out, and I think.

Well, let me go through, you got to get it out. I think don't underestimate

the importance of taking care of your body.

I mean, things like exercise, hydration, sleep, like those are all like,

we can't, we can't be so spiritual that we, we neglect our body.

I mean, that's, that's part of our person.

And then thirdly, just that spiritual side of it is just casting your burdens

onto the Lord and, and prioritizing that.

I think that's wise. I think I want to go back to to the first one,

talking about it and just having a safe, wise place where you say, I'm numb.

I don't have compassion anymore. I think what's hard about that is the same

type of person that is in the role of empathy is in some kind of leadership

or at least have some kind of spiritual maturity.

So maybe they're a small group leader or they're some other kind of spiritual

leadership or leadership at their job.

Maybe it's a principal or a teacher or a police captain or whatever it may may

be, a lot of times they're hesitant to, they're the ones that's always helping

others rather than, and they sometimes struggle asking for help.

But I think that's just a straight spiritual maturity issue.

I think we all have to understand, like we need each other. And I think that's

a, that's a great, I think one of the ways you and I connect is in the church United space.

And I think that's a healthy realization we're coming to as pastors is like,

Hey, I, I, I pour out, I have to, I need other people too.

Like I'm, I'm not just self-sufficient. No person's self-sufficient.

So I think that's a real maturity issue. Jesus demonstrated that in the Garden

of Gethsemane in his most traumatic moment.

Go there alone. He went at a distance, but he brought two or three close friends

with him to say, Hey, I'm struggling right now.

I'm going through it right now, but I'm gonna invite you into this space and

you're going to hear me cry out to my father.

Wow. And so like, if Jesus demonstrates that type of vulnerability,

why as leaders, do we not make ourselves that vulnerable and invite certain

trusted individuals into that space? Yeah.

That's a really good point. He goes and he prays. He asked them to watch him pray. Pray for me. Yeah.

I'm going to go a little little distance but i'm sure that it it was

only an air shot i'm sure that they could hear him crying out but they

instead it fell asleep they fell asleep but they i

they had to hear because how would we have the record of him saying

you know nevertheless or will that's good take the cup from me but nevertheless

thy will you will be done yeah exactly so obviously he he let them have access

to that space and and he was ministered to by them i think that's awesome i

love that part okay so someone who's walking through compassion exhaustion it's

a real thing and they're kind of of diagnosing themselves or feeling numb.

Maybe they're feeling anxiety. They just can't take anymore.

They're kind of running away, maybe sleeplessness. Yeah.

Those three interventions that you brought up, I think are key.

Talking about it to a counselor, especially, and especially if it's something

that is they're walking.

I think if you're walking with someone long-term, maybe it's a special needs

child or a spouse that's going through a long season, I think like that,

getting that counseling so you can go the distance is key.

Is there any other safe spaces aside from just counseling, that is a safe place

to talk about that if someone's experiencing compassion exhaustion to kind of get that out?

That's a great question. So talking about it in a safe space with someone that's

licensed is good. Talking about it with friends that are trusted is good.

Obviously the safest space is talking about it with Jesus, right,

coming into his strong tower and being enveloped by the safety of his arms.

Honestly, nothing comes to my mind apart from those three right now,

but I think those are three vitally important spaces to divulge your issues.

I can't think of anything. I think that's great. And I think just in general,

as we're kind of wrapping up this series on empathy, just to kind of review

kind of some of the things we've talked about,

Jesus says empathy is, in a sense, it's our word that we're using for what Jesus

said when he said, love your neighbor as yourself.

And he said, whatever you would have, I'm forgetting the goal.

Do as unto others as you would have them do unto you. Thank you,

thank you. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

And he says, the entire law and the prophets is built on that.

He's basically saying, summarizing the Old Testament by saying,

you have to get in someone else's experience and say, if I was them, what would I want done?

And then do that. That's basically, you have to have empathy to be able to accomplish that. And so that.

Heart that's softened to someone else, putting ourselves in their place is so

core to what it means to show genuine, authentic love.

I mean, people can do nice things for other people for their own selfish benefit,

but true empathy is entering into their place and being equipped to serve them.

I mean, I think empathy is really at the core of what it means to show love

and to follow after the Lord.

So anchor that into following after the Lord. The Lord

chased after us by coming into this

broken world leaving his kingdom putting on

flesh Hebrews 4 says that we

do not have a high priest that cannot empathize but actually can

empathize with us and that he was tempted in every

way that we were yet without sin and so he has felt those issues he's felt those

trepidations he's experienced those traumas and then because he's overcome that

he invites us into that space so it goes further says because he can empathize

we then can go Go to him to find mercy and care in our time of need.

And I think that's the model of empathy that we need to land it on and anchor

this whole time of your series in that Jesus was the model, is the model,

and continues to be the model.

Yeah. I mean, in the end, you could basically, the gospel is basically him entering

into our situation. So it's the gospel.

You could describe it through the lenses of empathy. It's the example of empathy.

Yeah. He's entering in and to

live out the gospel and enter into other people's need requires empathy.

So, hey, thanks so much for your thoughts, man. And I hope this has been an

encouragement to you as God is calling you into whatever his calling is on your

life to love those around you.

And for more info on empathy, check out the rest of the series on the City of Life podcast.

For more on your book, it's called From Pain to Purpose. Yep.

From Pain to Purpose, Choosing to Fall Forward Instead of Backwards.

Check out Darren Bennett on social media.

And we'll see you next time on CityRev Life Podcast.

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