Episode #5 - Rev. Eddie "Pop" Teston

The other brother, Eddie, testing a patriarch, a pillar of

the community. Absolutely.

So today's going to be a special one.

We got 2 special guests today because Colby's not a special

guest anymore. Just a regular guest.

This one's a special one because just, I'm going to speak for the

rest of us here. You 2 have both been a major

role model factor for us. I know Mac, you've only got 2

biological kid or sons, but I feel like you've got 5 after

everything that's going on. And Pop, you've been a, you've

been in a wonderful elder for all of us growing up.

I want you to know that we've, we've looked up to you,

especially me, ever since I've met you.

To be honest, I always look forward to seeing you in church.

So it's really nice to be able to sit down and talk to you and

and get to learn a little bit more about you.

So with that, we'll go ahead and get right on into it.

OK. I'd kind of like to start off

with kind of give you an introduction.

That's perfect. OK.

My mom and dad, they were both from South Georgia, Coffee

County. My dad and my grandfather on my

mother's side, they were sharecroppers.

They, they did crops for the large landowner in Coffee

County. Well, Daddy and a friend of his,

RC Cheryl, they got to study in the book of Acts.

And Daddy, Daddy was raised Methodist and my mother was

Baptist. And how they got together, I

don't know, but they got together and got married and Dad

was 19 and mom was 15. But when brother Cheryl and Dad,

they went, they got together and started studying the book of

Acts and they begin to ask the Methodist elders how come they

wasn't preaching the same message that the apostles preach

in the book of Acts about the Holy Ghost.

And they kept telling him say, well, rest my dad was called

Wesley said Wesley, that was just for the apostles in that

day. It's not for the church today.

It's that's that was back those days.

But Daddy said, well, that's not what the Scripture said.

He said the Scripture says it's to everybody that believes they

can have the Holy Ghost. And we don't understand why

you're not preaching the Holy Ghost.

Well, he said, well, we just don't, we just don't believe

it's for the church today. It's it's just a thing in the

past where daddy and brother Cheryl kept studying it and got

more depth to it. And they begin to talk to other

people in the Methodist Church. And the elders finally called

them in and said now men if y'all going to keep talking

about this Holy Ghost thing that we don't teach anymore, y'all

need to find another church. So they started from there they

started going to the Methodist Church and that's they did

receive the Holy Ghost. Now they didn't have the full

knowledge of the oneness of God and the baptism of Jesus name,

but they did teach baptism Holy Ghost speaking in other tongues

that if you did to get the Holy Ghost you will speak in tongues.

So daddy began to seek for the Holy Ghost in the Methodist

Church. Well, he would like I said he

was a sharecropper. He was plowing the field of corn

one day and it was about noontime.

And Daddy said, now, Lord, if the Holy Ghost is for me, I want

it. I really want the Holy Ghost if

it's for me. And all of a sudden, Daddy said

there was such a bright light. They said it was brighter than

the sun. And he said, he just, I just

stopped everything I was doing and all of a sudden I was

carried out of it. He said, I don't know what

happened, but I, he said I just carried out of it.

And he began to speak in tongues as the spirit gave of the

utterance. And so they're in the cornfield.

He was plowing with the yoke of oxen.

And when he came to, he said the oxen had moved out of their

tracks. They were where they were when

he went into this experience with God.

But he received the Holy Ghost plowing in the field of corn.

So he went back and began to testify to the Baptist Church

what God did for him. So Daddy really began to study.

Then he began to feel the calling into the ministry

sometime later. So in 1932, he got a letter from

a man from me that he never knew, but it came from Apopka,

FL and this letter asked Dad to come.

They deeded a minister because they wanted to start a church in

Apopka. They were having cottage spur

meeting and in the meantime, but the shurel had gone to South

Carolina and while he's in South Carolina, he ran across some

Oneness people and they begin to tell him about the Jesus name

baptism and the oneness of God. Well, when he come back, he told

daddy about it and that then they begin to dig into the

scriptures and they saw where this was what what was the

apostles preached. So here they go.

They go back to the Church of God now and because I asked them

said why aren't we baptizing in Jesus name?

Why aren't we teaching the oneness of God?

Y'all teach the three manifestation of three persons,

but there's three manifestations, not three

persons. God the Father, God the Son, God

the Holy Ghost. That's three manifestations of

the one God and it's not. So anyway, they begin to talk

this about in the Church of God. So the Church of God did the

same thing. The Methodist folks, they said

that y'all need to find, you know, the church to go to God.

We don't believe that. So Daddy and brother, sure they

started a cottage prayer meeting.

So but anyway, during the cottage prayer meeting, there's

a church sprung from that. But this man wrote Daddy if I'm

Apopka and asked him to come to Apopka to start the church and I

so he didn't know anything about him though.

But he said now when you get to Apopka, go to the post office

and ask General Mel and your name would be the letter.

Be there in your name and get that letter and they'll give you

some money to help you get set up.

So that's how my mom and dad got to Apopka and he started the

church in Apopka in 1932. Well, in 1939, my twin brother

and I was born in Apopka. So that's how, that's how I

ended up in Apopka so far. So I've been raised in the

Pentecostal truth for all my life.

But anyway, Daddy, we, we were in Apopka for about, I don't

remember, but we moved from Apopka to Milton and I was

baptized at Milton when I was 12 years old.

But I didn't get the Holy Ghost because really I knew in my

heart that if I ever got the Holy Ghost, I was going to have

to preach. And I didn't want to preach.

I really didn't. I, I seen so much that my dad

had gone through struggling being a pastor and being a

minister and trying to take, I didn't want that lifestyle.

I, I, I said so I, I backed away.

I I I didn't. I like I say, I was baptized,

but I backed away and I didn't see God again.

What was it like whenever having a a minister in in that time?

Like being the son of a minister?

I know that now. I know my experience being a

pastor son now, but it might is probably harder even.

It was real hard because really bad in those days.

People didn't trust, especially Pentecostal churches and people.

You couldn't go and get a loan to build a church.

You had a bill as you raised money.

And I remember the church in Apopka being built.

It was on the old Orlando and Apopka Highway.

And you turn off, it went up a little dirt, the hill and we sit

right in the corner. And the church kind of had a

rounded front and where you entered.

But I remember the church, we had a we had no electricity.

We had oil lamps with reflectors behind them to give us light, No

piano. All we had was an old drum.

And my dad strummed a guitar and he wasn't a real good guitar,

but he did strum a guitar. And but it was rough in those

days. And a minister had to work and

there wasn't all that many good jobs.

In fact, my dad worked at the packing house building orange

crates for the Packers to because Orlando and Apopka was

known for the orange Groves and and everything.

So daddy dad was able to get a job at the packing house to

build out, but it was rough. And I guess, Cam, I guess that's

one reason I didn't want to go into the ministry.

Do you think do you think your father's influence change the

way that you viewed ministry whenever you later became that?

Do you think he was a big influence on how you viewed what

a minister means to be? After I, after I got to the

point that I wanted to, that I realized I wanted to live for

God and serve God and, and one of the Holy Ghost.

I realized it, that my dad had been faithful and that he had

really set a good example for me as forwards doing the work of

God. Even though he had a struggle,

he never backed away from it. And Cam and Johnny and Kobe and

Mac. I think my dad's ministry was,

it seemed like everywhere we went, it was a church that had

been in trouble. And it seemed like God used my

daddy as a somebody come and see if he could get things turned

around and get things reestablished.

Like I said, when we went to Milton, I was in the third grade

when we went to Milton and that church had really gone through.

The minister had messed up the churches in scrambles.

I mean, it just almost all the congregation almost left.

And that was my daddy's ministry.

It's kind of reestablishing. And we did real well at Milton.

And then we went from Milton to Bessemer, AL and was at Bessemer

for a while and then we came back to Milton and Dad.

That's when Daddy was called to Gainesville and Daddy went to

Gainesville in 1957, I believe. And my brother and I, we didn't

go to Gainesville with Daddy at first because we wanted to

finish our school year out at Milton was in 11th grade.

We wanted to finish that grade out and so we finished out.

Then we went there in 58 to finish our year in school and in

1959, that's the year I received the Baptist and the Holy Ghost.

I was but the way I received the Holy Ghost monk and I we was we

had met some folks and young people from Okella and we

happened to go over and see our friend that night to was going

to go to see actually was partying.

You know, just so with other with other young people from

Okella that we knew was let. Me, let me interject something

real quick just to make sure everybody that's listening to

the podcast understand. And that day partying didn't

include any alcohol, didn't include any drugs, didn't

include any kind of smoking, anything like that.

It was just getting together, hanging out, maybe building a

fire on the riverbank, Creek bank or something like that.

Just just having a good time, you know, different kind of

partying and what we're used to. I was like, wow, Pop, come on.

I've told, I've told my boys, well, like when we lived at

Milton, when we lived at Milton, my brother's girlfriend, dad had

a, they had a cabin on the Bay and he had a launch that we used

to go out on the islands with. We'd go out on the islands, a

bit of butter, but I could tell. I've told my boys.

Sex was never involved. Drinking was never involved.

Smoking was never we'd even know what anything about dope.

We just got together and had a good time.

Somebody would bring the hot dog bun, somebody would bring the

wieners and somebody bring the drink and we just get together

had a good time. It's like Mike said.

But anyway, we we called our friend in Ocala and said we

going to come over and go with you.

But it happened to be the same weekend that they was having

youth camp at the Ocala campground.

And my friend live right across from the campground.

So after we come back from our party, drop him off, they were

still, the young people were still having the youth camp.

But in fact, he's having the off to call.

And so I told Monk, I said, let's let's go up there and see

what's going on because we had some young people from

Gainesville there. So I said, let's go and see what

our young people's doing and then see what's going on.

So we walked in at the Tabernacle, and I mean, those

young people were up there rejoice in having a great time

in the Lord. And just, I mean, I've never

seen such expression of joy in my whole life.

And I looked at my brother. We called him Monk.

I said monk. That's what we've been looking

for. I said all this time we running

here, running there, getting with this group, that group.

But I said what they've got there is what we're looking for.

And I told him, I said I'm going to go home.

When I get home, I'm going to get the Holy Ghost.

And those three weeks later, I received the baptism the Holy

Ghost at home in Gainesville. How old were you at that time?

How old were you? I was 19.

I was 19 when I received the Holy Ghost and but they said I

wiped the floor out. God.

God took a lot of pride out of me, I guess.

I guess I had a lot of pride in stuff, but they said I just

wiped that whole front row out. I rode from one side of the

church to the other. But I really got me a good

experience. Then God.

God renewed the calling that I felt at age of 12, and I begin

to talk to my dad about it because I asked my dad.

I said, now dad, before I get involved with this, I want to

ask you a question. How do you know that we're in

the truth and these other folks are not in the truth?

He says, son, I'm just going to tell you what you need to do.

He said you need to go and investigate.

He said, visit these other churches and listen to what

they're preaching and see if there's preaching from the word

of God or preaching from their opinions of what they think.

He said compared what they're what you're hearing to what

you're reading. And he said if it's not what

you're reading in the word of God, then you need to realize

that's not what you need. So that's what I begin because I

felt the calling, but I wanted to make sure that my calling was

real and I, that I was in the truth.

Even though my dad had raised me the truth, you know, they were

still some of those, you know, 'cause I've seen a lot of good

people that, that, you know, you know, in, you know, where I'll

be getting, investigating to realize that we were teaching

the truth and all. It's pretty important not to cut

you off. It's, it's pretty important, I

would say, for people to be able to do that investigation on

their own. A lot of people just, they'll

even say, oh, I just blindly follow just 'cause that's what

I've always been taught. I think it's pretty powerful to

say, hey, no, I I researched it myself and my dad didn't force

me to do this. He told me to because he was so

confident that he knew you would find it.

Johnny, that's exactly what my dad said.

My dad told me, he says, son, I don't want you believe this

because that's what I've raised you to believe.

He said, I want you to know within your own heart that and

actually what dad says, He said, now son, what you need, He said

you need a revelation to the oneness of God in the I had no

problem with Jesus name baptism. I had no, because the oneness of

God, you know, because there are two places that it would leave

the impression that there were more than just one God, because

this was talking to this one. This one's talking to that one,

you know, but he said you need to ask God to give you a

revelation of the oneness of God.

So that's when he told me, He said you need to go and just

begin to investigate and see what you find out.

And I didn't let me say this. Now, when I begin to seek it,

God did give me a revelation of the Oneness of God.

And it seemed like it was just a veil that just opened up and it

became so clear. It's like you say, Johnny, it

was because my dad gave me the freedom to find out for myself

that what what we believe is what we taught.

No, I, I was just saying that says a lot about your dad too

and about the bringing up. And I think that's a lot that

ties to your family heritage now.

You know, I mean, you're four generation, 5 generations in

from his time. And I, I think similar with my

dad, you know, I mean, you got to find it for yourself.

And that just touched me a whole lot because that, that's really

it. You can believe off of what

someone tells you all you want, but until you find it for

yourself, it really doesn't matter.

You know it's not yours, but you took it and that's that's your

your finding and revelation of God's Word.

Yeah, well, see, Kobe, Really. Now, that's one thing that

worries me about our churches today, because I'm so afraid

that a lot of our young people are be are Pentecostal because

they're raised in Pentecost, just like Baptist kids are

Baptist because they're raised Baptist.

And I worry because I wonder if they really are getting the

revelation that they really need.

So when they have to stand on their own foundation, is their

foundation going to be so sure that they're not going to

crumble? You know, And he, he kind of

worries me. That's the reason I won't see

our church real strong in doctrine and teaching.

So our young people have more than just a that's what my mom

and dad. No, that's what I've learned

from the Word of God. Well, I think, I think every,

and we're doing the work I've done with people in that

18/19/2021 year old range. I think everybody reaches a

point in their life where they've got to determine this is

my faith. You know what I mean?

And I, but I, I think the confidence that we have and your

father had that any search for truth is going to take you right

back here, right? The unction of the Holy Ghost is

going to lead you to this. So we have no problem with

people looking because we know what they'll find.

That's what. That's what.

There of mine said too in chapter 29, if you search you're

going to find it and I think it's that confidence in God.

Well, not only that the Bible said the Spirit once you receive

the Spirit, the Spirit would lead and guide you into all

truth. And if we would leave, let that

the Spirit control us and through and our conscience, it

would, it would show us what we need to do and what we don't

need to do. And you know, because.

What? That's what Jesus said.

I'm going, I'm going to leave you something.

I'm going back to heaven, but I'm not going to leave you

without. I'm sending back the comforter

and the comforter is going to lead and guide you into the ways

that I want you to go. So you follow that spirit and

that's why we need a spirit to feel as church and a spirit

strong church. So people when they come in,

they can feel that spirit and that spirit would draw them into

the knowledge of the truth. And and so that's, that's how I

got started. I, I, I acknowledge that God

called me to preach and I talked to my dad.

I begin to do a lot of studying them own and praying and I felt

the call into the I went to Bible school for two years, but

then I started evangelizing. Well, evangelize the first year

a little bit with the trio. It's trio and I, I sang in the

men's trio and we travelled that summer after my first year of

Bible college and evangelized Carl Vernell and Dale Sullivan

and myself and Harold Barber. They were the four of us that we

travelled and then the second year went back to college.

But I don't know, I just didn't. I didn't feel like I was where I

needed to be. So I after my second year of

Bible college, I went into full time evangelistic where I was

still single at that time and I traveled for two years

evangelizing. I went to several different

states. So I went all the way up to

Iowa, out to Ohio in a different place, and I really enjoyed the

evangelistic work. What time when you when you felt

that call to preach, what is just?

What does that feel like? What is that impression that you

have that makes you decide it's preaching?

That is my calling. Well, the way I felt, Johnny, is

that I just couldn't get it off my, I mean, it just stayed on my

mind constantly that I wasn't doing what God, you know, I was

in church with my dad, working in church with my dad, but I

didn't feel like I was fulfilling what God really

wanted me to do. There is still an emptiness

there because in, in my heart and mind I knew what God wanted

me to do and it was, it is kind of hard to explain how that

feeling is. It's just something that you

can't get away from and let. Me, I think this will be a good

time for me to interject something OK, from from my

memory of you sharing your testimony with me.

So you know, similarly, you know, I've asked that question

as well. How did you know?

And from what what Pop told me before is it was OK getting up

singing, but he had a terrible fear of not sounding like he

knew what he was talking about to get up in front of people and

talk. He didn't like getting up in

front of people and talking. And when he first started

preaching, no one ever could have known that because that was

a, if I remember correctly, that was a time that, you know, after

he preached his first time, he knew beyond any shadow of a

doubt, And so did everybody that knew him very well, that it was

the anointing because he wouldn't have been able to do

that on his own. So I remember that very

distinctly. Yes, Sir.

No, I was very shy. I didn't.

I really. I had a fear I didn't like, Mike

said. I had no problem singing with my

group, with my guys and all, but when we, when we 3 evangelized,

I let the other two do most of the preaching.

I kind of stayed in the background.

In fact, now Carl Varnell, he became well known in the UPC and

actually he worked out of Saint Louis for a while.

And because he now var was Carl Varnell, was one of the best

preachers, a young preachers that I'd ever heard.

I mean, he was a great minister. But anyway, in 1960, I came back

to Gainesville after I evangelized for a couple years

and then just kind of real rest and kind of get myself back

together. And Carol and I, Carol before we

whenever married, Carol and I still work together when I was

around home, I'd, if I went to a church locally or something,

she'd go with me and play the piano for me, you know.

So we, we had learned to kind of work together said.

But when I come back home and got back into that's when Carol

and I got to going together and I asked to marry 19501963 That's

when we got married and then the church in Apopka was needing a

pastor. Now this is the church that my

daddy started in 1932. They needed a pastor.

They sober the canal called and asked me if I'd be interested in

coming to Apopka and see if they so Carolina pastors in Apopka

for but just a very few months we didn't.

Now God blessed us and our church really grew.

We had, in fact, we had one of the best young group of young

people that in that time at that church.

But I knew I wasn't doing what God had called me to do.

God had called me to evangelize. We, we lived to popcorn.

And by the time now Becky was born too, we had Becky.

So after Becky was born, we went back to Gainesville and I told

mom and dad we was going to evangelize.

Mom thought I was crazy. She said, what are you talking

about? You evangelizing?

You just got a newborn baby and you going to take off and go

and, and she's I said, mom, that's my calling.

I feel like God has called us to evangelize.

So Becky was, I think Becky was, but 03 months or 4, maybe six

months old. She wasn't very old at all.

So we had an O 55 Chrysler, Windsor Chrysler.

That's when the air condition came out of the trunk and we

bought the car seat and we put the car seat back there.

It's so big. You have a place to sleep and

ride. And I was getting everything

ready to vangelize and mom just kept telling me, Are you sure?

Are you sure? You crazy?

Did he didn't have a revival schedule?

Nowhere. Oh, he just, but I just felt.

So I called a friend of mine, brother Childress.

He's a full time evangelist and he and I had worked with brother

Childress on the evangelistic field.

When I was evangelizing, when I was out without a revival, I

would go where brother sis chillers was and I'd work with

the young people. We'd come up with youth choirs

and stuff. So I knew brother and sis

children well. So I called him.

I said, brother Chillers, I feel like I need to, I'm, I'm going

to evangelized and I said I wanted to know if you could

maybe give me a revival schedule up to whatever he's well, I'm up

here in Indiana. I said, I don't care where God

wants me to go. I just, if you see if you can

get me a revive somewhere. So he said, well, come on up,

I'll see what I can do now. We left Florida, no revival

schedule, didn't know whether it's going to have a revive.

All the money we had in our pocket is what we had in our

pocket. We had no bank account, didn't

have a savings account. We could just bear in a sense.

Anyway, we decided to go. So he was in Richmond, IN.

Now Richmond, IN is on the extreme east side of Indiana,

right on the border of Ohio. So we got up to Richmond, IN.

He said brother. He said Brother Eddie, he said

all I could do is find you a weekend service in Hobart, IN.

Here we are all the way on the east side of Indiana.

Hobart is on the extreme West side of Indiana, right next to

Illinois. I mean, it's right on the

border. He said they promise you a

weekend service. So that was with Brother Barley

in Hobart, IN. So here we go not knowing, you

know, and we get there now he is in the home missionary church.

He's in the basement. That's all they've got built so

far is just a base. But they don't have the other

part. This winter time snow, you know,

it hadn't snowed yet, but it's winter time.

So here we are in the home missionary church.

Don't know how they get if they going to be able to support us

or not. And that's anyway they put us up

in their home. So we preached for him that

weekend. And that weekend turned out to

be 3 weeks. We was there for three weeks.

And God, I mean God really blessed and gave us the revival.

And in that revival, we had other churches come in to visit

with us while we evangelize and and we filled up a schedule to

carry us through the whole year from that one revival.

That's how God works when you end the calling of God.

Well, yeah, so, so many people would look at that and say I'm

I'm not going to a whole missions church to to preach in

a basement to that's. Quite a leap of faith.

But it shows what God can do, right?

They just did what was available to you and that's.

It that's I'm saying that's how God.

But that's another thing I'd say in those days when when a church

had a revival, whether you was a home or or a well established

church, they supported each other.

I mean, they would reason there were several churches in that

area and that's they would come and support you.

And also if you was an evangelist.

And if there's a, that's when they used to have fellowship

meetings and youth rally, they'd have a fellowship meeting one,

one month and the next month they'd have a youth rally.

Now, if you was an evangelist in that area, you would preach that

fellowship meeting, all that youth service because they

wanted to get you exposed to the other churches in the, in the

area. So they really helped an

evangelist at that time. But we stayed.

We stayed busy for actually we evangelized for five years.

So do you think there was a real sense of unity amongst like the

churches of that time, the way that they were trying to support

and even just even with the evangelist, do you think that

was like AI? Find I found it up north more so

than I did in the South. It seemed like the South didn't

have that unity of coming together as well as the churches

up north. Up north, it seemed like they

had it looked like they looked for the opportunity to get

together and and have fellowship together.

So I found it was seemed like it was more so up north than it was

in the South. But I remember this one thing.

Like I said, Carol was from the South.

She had never been out of the state of Florida except when she

went to Bible school for one year.

That's the first time she'd have been out of the state of

Florida. But of course we was in obit

Indiana winter time. She got up 1 morning before any

but she's an early ride. She got up before anybody else

and over it, it snowed overnight.

I mean it everything was covered up.

I mean they and she went out and looked at the wind and she let

out a big scrape. Hey, it snowed.

You know, sister Barley got up and said Sister Carol, it always

snows up here in the wind. So but anyway, we evangelized

for that for five years and then Becky settled.

We had to settle down because Becky and we actually our first

pastor, the church the way we passed was to lock 40 Illinois

and we that was one of the first church that we held revival in a

lot of times the church that we had revive.

We we repeat, we go back almost every year to those same

churches. So when when Brother Farley, he

felt his called in to go to the New York area to start a church,

he called me and said, I hear you getting ready to settle

down. I said, yeah, I've got to get

Becky in school. So he said, well, I'm getting

ready to go to New York. We're going to need a pastor in

Lockport. And they wanted me to call you,

see if you had come to Lockport. So that's where that's how we

ended up in Port Lockport for her first church and God blessed

us there. And then we went from there to

Aurora. That worked with brother Billy

Lewis in the church in Aurora. And but then if they think

that's that's how come they just got started.

So you mentioned up north, they're a little bit more

fellowship like, like they, they wanted to get together.

That's one thing that I remember from being a kid in Saint Louis.

It was like every, every, every Sunday, every Wednesday.

It was after church. It was like tradition.

You went out to eat, you hung out with somebody.

Dad used to tell me that basically every Friday night,

every Saturday night, there was there was a group together.

A lot of times would be the youth and that I don't think it

was called hyphen at the time, but youth in that age would.

They were just, they were consistently going out to eat.

Everybody was doing stuff. What I mean, that seems to me to

be pretty valuable when it comes to a church getting more closer

together. Well, Johnny, this what Carol, I

haven't, we haven't understood because that's what we had up

there, just like in a roar. We had a group of young couples

about our age, you know, and every weekend we was going out

on the weekend and do the we lived in the Chicago area.

So we'd go to Chicago and go out to nice restaurant to eat.

Then just go. That's when you could go to what

they call down, down under the ground Chicago.

You can't do that now. It's too dangerous.

But back in those days and you could ride the subway and you

could do things. But it's like you said, Johnny,

we was always getting together. If we wasn't going out, we'd get

together just in at different ones homes and just have a

fellowship. But I don't see that among our

not only in the South. I don't know how long how it is

up north. It has been so long since I've

been up north, but I don't see that among our churches anymore.

We don't. They don't seem to get together

anymore. Even when we were growing up.

Sorry, cutting you off there. I had to get the first word in.

Even when we were growing up. I feel like we did that more.

I mean, every Wednesday we was going to IHOP or Waffle House,

whatever, you know, and I, I do feel that like it's technology

has advanced some. We do more correspondence, you

know, on texting or whatever with the kids and we don't have

that. And I, I think that is something

we really need to make a concerted effort to get back.

You know, that unity, that face to face 'cause that matters

more. I think so.

Yeah. I know we had that's what we

used to do up there. You know, we always tried to get

together and have fellowship and we really enjoyed it.

And we'd always we didn't find the all anybody that wanted to

go with it. We didn't we didn't just have

wait, this is our group and this is your know anybody.

We just let everybody know, hey, we're going to Chicago this

weekend. And the Chicago head of this

church on Sunday night at at 11 O clock, they had their choir.

Now, you never heard a choir like that.

And the guy that play that organ, oh man, it was something

else. So we're every now and then we'd

all get together after our church on Sunday night.

We'd go into Chicago to the church.

It was called the Church of Deliverance.

And you go in there and listen to the choir, but you don't

whisper and you don't talk while you're in there because if they

catch you whisper, you're talking.

The usher would come out and tap you on the head and said you're

there to listen. You're not here to talk.

But like I said, Kobe, we do things like that just, and we

enjoyed it. The families enjoyed it, you

know, but that's, that's been some good days.

What kind of, I guess lessons did you learn early in your

ministry, you know, through evangelizing and then becoming a

pastor, like how, how to respond to situations?

Was there anything you learned in that early portion of your

ministry that carried with you? I'm going to be straight with

you, OK? I learned to quit being

judgmental because I evangelize in a lot of churches and lot of

them may not have had. I mean they were wonders

churches and UPC churches, but a lot of them may not have been

raised as strict and as and all as I was.

But yet they have the power of God and the Spirit of God and

people love the Lord and everything.

And I learned my lesson of not passing judgment just because

this one don't look like I look and this one don't act like I

act, and this one don't wear what like our clothes like I

wear. I learned that every man has got

to give an account of themselves to God.

I've got to give account to myself.

If I'm living like I'm, if I'm doing what I'm supposed to do,

if I'm not doing, then I'm going to have to give an account of

that. I learned that.

And I also I learned that that people I don't know the people

really loved to hear the word of God preached.

Not not my opinion, not your opinion, but preach me the word,

give me the word. And that's one thing I try to do

when I even when I pastored, I try to do what like your dad,

your dad, how many times he holds that book up and says,

Hey, as long as we in the word, it's going to keep us straight.

And that's what I tried to do in my I learned to stay in that

word. Then I wouldn't that way I won't

get myself out on some limb that's going to break on me said

that so, but that's if we could just learn this really quit

being quit. In other words, don't go to

church. See what fault you can find, but

I learned you go to church to glorify God, lift God up and

praise God. And I'm not here to judge my

brother and sister and I, I'm going to be straight with you

now. I see too much of that in our

churches. I do.

I see too much of that people trying to pass judgment because

somebody's may not look just like I look.

We don't know the heart. Not only don't we don't know the

heart, we don't know how God's working with them.

Yeah, maybe God hasn't brought them into the fullness of the

knowledge that you and I have have received.

So we've got we've got to give people, especially new people,

we've got to give people time to grow and try and time to mature

in in the gospel. And, you know, John's Gos,

John's epistles, I should say, talk a lot about the conscious

and how that works. And then I think that's it's a

big thing, right? As we search God, we believe we

don't have to pass judgment on somebody, right?

God's going to lead them where they need to go, ultimately.

Well, the Scripture says it. He said, you know, Jesus says

the words, the word that I say they would judge you.

He said I come not into the world to condemn the world, but

the word that I give you, they the word actually Jesus, or even

on judgment, even on judgment, Jesus isn't going to judge you

just because he's a judge. He's going to judge you

according to his word. Now did you live or did you obey

the word? Now if you didn't obey the word,

the word is what's going to condemn you, just like a judge

that sits on that seat. He doesn't pass judgment on the

person because of he's being the judge.

He passes on the evidence that's been given.

And if the evidence condemns you, then you then he's got to

pass judgment. And that's what Jesus said.

He says I didn't come to he. He come to seek and save, not to

condemn me. That's why the woman that was

called an adultery. Now he didn't condone her act of

sin, but he said I didn't come to condemn her.

I come to save her. Now if I can, if I can save her

by not condemning her, then I'm going to do that.

But but when he told those guys now you that without seeing

other words, there's where he's throwing the condemnation, he's

throwing the condemnation of those that was passed into

judgment. Now he said, now you without

fault or seeing, now you throw the first stone.

There's only one individual that could have passed us that

throwing a stone that was Jesus Christ.

But instead of throwing a stone, he says, I'm going to save her.

I'm not going to I'm not going to condemn her.

And that I think, I think that's that's the mentality that we

need to get into our church and our people today.

We're here to save people, not to condemn them.

Let let the word take care of that you know.

Well, to, to, to build on that, he, Jesus did say that, you

know, those who are sick are the ones who need a physician, not

the ones who are claiming to be perfect.

So if, if someone's not exactly the way you think they are, I

mean, who are you to judge them? But you know, those are the type

of people that I feel like is who we should really be trying

to reach out for and being catering more to it just because

at one point in time we were in those shoes.

We were the ones who were. Some of you, yeah, that's right.

And I think every single one of us, if you base it off of that

and that that's where it's hard. You come back into the word for

me. You come back into the Lord and

you're growing and learning. And when I came back into

church, there was a lot that God had to break down in my

personality, in my traits, especially the way I treated

people. You know, that that was my

biggest issue. And I'm still working on that.

I'm going to be real, especially my brother.

But I, I think it's so easy because all of us can be

condemned off of our action if we're going up there without the

blood of Jesus at the end of judgement.

Every single one of us can be condemned if we're basing it off

of this is the law. Did you keep it?

But thankful for the blood of Jesus.

And I think having that mindset of it's only Jesus that gets us

into that place of righteousness because we can't do it

ourselves. That changed my mind.

And it's really from people like you and Mac.

You know that for me. We're a light even and I was

roaming around in darkness. You've got these anchors of

people who you know, you Mac especially was, was huge for me.

And when I came back into church, he's one that I could

talk to because we walked a similar path a whole lot having

those voices too. And that's for me.

I'm, I'm never going to pass judgement on people that are

growing because I know right where I was at and then I, I

know where I'm still growing. You know, I, I think that's one

of the biggest things that you could say, especially at your

age. That means so much to me that

you still have that moment of we're not, we're not passing

judgement on people. That's Jesus's job.

The best thing we can do is love people.

Yeah. Yeah, I was, I was just going to

say something on that. You know, people have asked me

in the past and you guys may ask me this question when when it

comes my time to be sitting in pop seat, but I'll go ahead and

answer it today. That way I'll have more time to

answer other questions. But you know, probably the most,

the most desirous trait that my dad has that I'm still working

on is I don't know anybody that has more mercy except for God

than my dad. And I say that from a

perspective of he raised three children, that all of us turned

away from God and stayed away from God for quite a while.

And he just kept on loving us, kept on praying for us.

And you know, he knew God would, he knew God would work on us and

we'd be back. And he he all, my family, all of

his family, his nieces and nephews, they never hesitated to

call him even though they were living in sin.

And that means a lot too because like on a similar note, without

getting emotional, because me and Mac are both little

crybabies, we're going to be crying in, in his podcast, my

dad is the maybe the one minister in my life that when I

was walking around, it's easy to point out how people are not

what they say they are. They're not merciful, they're

not loving, especially when you're sinning and you see those

people. And my dad made it so hard for

me to to have that mindset because same thing, it didn't

matter what I was doing, I was always welcome in his house.

I was always there and he was always praying for me.

And I think that prayer, that fervent prayer, that fervent

love is a one thing that got me back and it takes time.

Everybody's on the journey and I, and that's the biggest part

for me, I guess, even hearing you from a long time ago,

because the old church gets a bad Rep about old Hellfire and

Rimstone, you know, And here you are.

How old are you? What 84?

86 Wow. Oh man. 86 years old, though,

and and your your biggest thing he says.

What have you learned is don't pass judgement.

That's crazy. You know, after generations of

oh, Hellfire and brimstone, the one thing that you really point

out is don't pass judgement. And that I think ties back to

you find the truth. If you're you're searching for

it, you're going to find the truth. 86 years of all of this

and your lesson there is don't pass judgement.

And that's a huge lesson for me. Where'd it go ahead?

Papa, I was just going to ask you how What advice would you

give to people to learn how to be merciful and how to show

mercy to others? I I really shouldn't know how to

answer that Cam because I really I don't know.

It's just you just got to love people.

I mean, if you really, if you really love people and and

really care about them, you going to try to do the very best

you can not to offend them and not to hurt them.

Show, I don't know, when you kind of rough on them and and

making them feel like they're not worth dealing with, then

you're not going to you're not going to reach them.

But if you can, if you can just show the Bible said love.

What? Love covers a multitude of sin,

and that's what Jesus did. Jesus came loving people, man.

How many times could Jesus have casts that just say, hey, you're

not, you're not worth dealing with, Just get out of my way,

you know? But no, he, he wouldn't.

In fact, he went out of his way to reach people.

He went out of his way to go to Samaritan when Jews don't go to

Samaritan, man, Hey, you, you don't hang out there.

That's a bad place to go. I know one time in my world, my

pastor didn't look for, there's a young man and his wife started

coming to church. Bob and his wife, bad little

girl, actually, they were just living together.

They hadn't gotten married. They just living together.

They start to come to church. She got in, got the Holy Ghost.

And then I told her, I said, now, Hun, you got the, you got

to work out. Besides that, you can't you and

Bob can't continue to live the way you're living and you have

the Holy Ghost. Now you got to talk to Bob and

see, you know, So she begin. So but Bob had a drinking

problem on the weekend. So one night it was about about

midnight, I got a call and this girl called me for and she said,

are you are you reverent testing?

I said yes, I am. She said, well, I've got Bob

here at the bar and he's drunk. He won't go home and we can't

get him out and it's time for us to close and he told us to call

you. I said what she said.

Bob told us. He said call my preacher.

My preacher would come get me and Take Me Home.

So I said, where are you? So I got up and got dressed and

Carrie said, where you going? I said, I've got to go get Bob.

He's at a bar and he's drunk. He won't go home.

They get in there stomping in my clothes.

She said, what if somebody sees you going in there?

And guys said, Carol, what am I supposed to do?

Just leave him in there? I said I go.

I said God knows what I'm going in there for.

God knows I'm not going in there to drink or nothing.

So I couldn't in there and overlook this and I'm just going

to tell you what Bob said He So I walked in the door.

He said, see, I told you and he looked at that girl.

See, I told you how good looking he was.

Anyway, I got Bob and took him home and got him got him sober.

Go well, got him ready, got him in bed and get told his wife.

If you need me, give me a call, you know.

But he was in church the next day.

But but Bob got in church. He got the Holy Ghost and got

there. In fact, there I lived long

port, but somebody said he and his wife got into the ministry.

Now, whether they did or not, I don't know.

I'm just going to what what I was told.

But but that's that's kind of love you got.

Damn, but sometimes you have to maybe cross the boundary that

people might say, well, you ain't got no business to.

But really, just like Jesus, Jesus, you have no business

going to Samaria where testing, you have no business going to

the but I had a soul. I had a soul I got to try to

save. So that goes back to Jesus,

right? They called him a wine Bibber,

right? Yeah, that's true.

So if you're not willing to risk your reputation for somebody

else, what are you willing to risk it for, right?

Well, for for his story, for Bob's story, I wonder, like the

the path there, his life may have turned out completely

different if you didn't go to that bar that night and pick him

up. God knows what would have

happened in his life. That's true.

And you know, if he hadn't been stubborn enough not to leave and

not to get in his car, he may have never made a meter.

So but God, God works in mysterious ways.

Let's face it now. And if they if God hadn't put it

in, not over, maybe it wasn't God anyway.

He stayed there and was stubborn enough.

I'm not going to leave until my pastor comes against me and like

you can say, because we, we don't know what that'll come out

of being, but God, God knows what he's doing.

Let me give you let me give you a good exit.

Something's funny, OK. We was in a roar and we was

heaven, Brother Lewis. And we had a great choir.

We built a choir off and started a choir and it had a great, one

of the best choirs that I it was really great, not not because

Carol and I was doing, but we had some great singers and all

but Carol played the piano. We had this lady Charlotte was

on the organ. Now Charlotte was a good woman.

She was a but she's very stiff. You never seen any kind of

movement out of her. You never, I never seen her

shout, never. Nothing yelled to.

But we was in church one Sunday night.

I was leading the service and we Lisa praising God was

worshipping we that's before we had these praise singers.

We the whole congregation just was singing.

So we were singing and, and Brother Louis seen it.

I didn't see it because you're behind me, but there's a mouse

that ran out across the rostrum back to the pulpit.

And Brother Louis was watching it.

And that mouse ran under the organ where Charlotte was

playing, and suddenly this one that never made any kind of

movement suddenly jumped up and shouted and screamed out loud.

Man in the whole church, though, the whole man, the Spirit of God

is hit Charlotte, the whole church went up in and I mean

everybody. That's when the, you know, heard

the story by the squirrels. This was a mouse.

But though we thought Charlotte, and like I said, now he was old.

I didn't know what was going on. I thought I would like everybody

else out of that man. Charlotte's really getting a

blessing, you know, but we've had Carol now we've had some

good times. We got God's being good to us,

and I know how God gave us a good ministry.

Yep. Where did you spend your most

time at in your ministry? Like at one individual place?

Where was that? Like I don't know really a lot

Porter probably be the most ever.

We never. I'll be honest with you, I

wasn't I wasn't too good of a pastor.

I was evangelists, but we we passed in Lockport, we passed it

at Milton and we passed it in, like I said, in Apopka.

And then the last church we passed was in back Memphis, TN.

That's before we come here to be with Matt.

Yeah. But I guess, I guess we set

Lockport more than along with any place else.

But God did. But I have to say this now.

God did bless us wherever where we went.

We saw growth in God bless us in the ministry, but did what our

pastor were wasn't long. It wasn't very long.

Was there a time in your life where you felt like you had to

basically wholly depend on God, maybe emotionally or you know,

through through struggles? Basically, was there a point

where you just said, the only thing I got in my life right now

is I'm holding on to God? You know what I mean?

Well, now when we first started evangelizing, now it was all

faith go. Well, like I said, we, we

stepped when we stepped out to evangelize, we had no big bank

account. We had nobody supporting us.

We had no church supporting us. We was out, just out on our own

because there was times that I didn't know where was going to

get the money for the next tank of gas.

And then I remember there's one time Carols we was in

Brownsville IN preaching at Brownsville IN and Becky was

just Smalling. Carol says Becky, don't have we

don't have any milk for for the baby.

And I didn't have any money. I mean, I was completely broke.

Now they had us in the park. They had a little evangelistic

apartment where we were staying. And I told Carol, I said, Carol,

all I know do is we just have to ask Scott to supply the need.

So we we had a service that night.

We church, of course at that time they didn't give you an

offering at night. They waited till the end of the

week and then they gave you a check or offer, whatever, you

know. And it really now a lot of a lot

of times they didn't pay evangelists as well as they pay

them now. In fact, that's one reason hard

to keep evangelists on the field because they just couldn't make

it financially. But anyway, we went to church

house service, come back home and Becky said Carol says, what

are we going to do about Becky? She needs some, some, some milk.

And I said, I don't know, Hun. I, I don't have anything about

that time. A knock on the door and this man

was there with two bags of groceries and said God laid on

my heart to bring y'all some things.

And then that bag of goats, it was a big gallon of milk that

took care of Bakey. But I mean that we actually we

actually live by live by own faith as we when we evangelized.

And that's that's, that's huge because only only God could have

known what you guys were going through at that time.

One thing that we kind of touched on on the last podcast,

I'd want to do it again now that we've got 2, both you guys here,

but I think there's a huge value in the importance of having a

good loving father. I think that's something that

today's world tries to really just beat down on it and get rid

of because of how valuable it can be to a family.

Matt touched on a little bit earlier, even through everything

that he was doing, you still loved him and you never gave up

and you always were just as if, just like the prodigal story,

you, you were ready, you were looking out waiting for him to

come back. And, and that really, I would

imagine, made a pretty big impact on you when you do come

back, you know, you had that father that's looking out for

you, that's, that's ready for you.

So you don't feel judged when you get back.

What do you, what do you just can you go a little bit further

on that of what you put the value on as far as a good godly

father in the home and and caring and loving for his family

and being there. Well, well, Wendy, when our kids

like, like Max said now, they, they went there.

Well, I mean, they they really went out and got involved with a

lot of things that they should have never got involved in.

Let's be, let's be careful here, Pop.

No, don't, don't, don't give too much information.

They just got involved with things they shouldn't get

involved in. OK, But I, Carol, Carol and I

totally said, Carol, all we can do is hold them up in prayer and

keep them before God and and keep loving them.

And we tried in just like Mack. And when when Seth was born, I

told him, I said, now Mack, I'm going to take him to church.

If y'all said if y'all not going to church, I'm taking him to

church. So when Seth was born, Mac told

Donna said get ready because we got to go to church.

Oh, no, no, but he said, hell, we go to church and this to

satisfy daddy for a while, you know, but that's what got them

back into church because they they took him to church and sit

on me, take him into church. And but I just I just watched

the hand of God move Johnny. All I could do is just keep

praying for him and I knew sooner or later that God would

answer my prayer if I would just stay faithful.

I would say a lot of ministers especially, but a lot of

Christians are just that struggle whenever their children

or family or loved ones kind of are obstinate to them and and

kind of reject it. What encouragement would you

give to those who might find themselves in that circumstance?

Who all I can say can be is just be patient.

Be long-suffering and you don't condone what they're doing.

In fact, you tell them you, I mean, I'll let the kids know

that they didn't condone what they was doing.

But I would say the biggest thing that you can do, you just

have to be long-suffering and be patient and and just continue to

have that faith that they are God.

I know who you are. I know that you have the answer

to my to my knees and my kid, my children that are needing you

and just just all you do is hold them up before God, say now God,

they're in your hands. I kept telling God, I said, now

God, I dedicated these kids to you.

They're not my children. They're your children and you

need to bring my prodigal back home.

And I saw God do it. God saw.

I saw all three of my kids back in church.

I'm on a, I'm going to just elaborate on that from from my

perspective and try to do it without getting emotional.

But there was one thing for sure and it was same with my mom.

But we're talking about the influence of the father in the

home. I didn't go out and do things

with the mentality. That doesn't matter what I do,

God, And you know, dad's going to be there.

But didn't matter where I went. I knew if I called my dad, he'd

fight, you know what, to get there.

And I never had any doubt that dad would be there.

So I've tried to be that guy, you know, not just for not just

for his kids, but all of my cousins, everybody, all the

family members. And I mean, I think you guys can

probably attest to it that he may have never told you this,

but I guarantee you if if y'all ever gotten hurt and you called

him now he might call me and say, Mac, we got to go get Kobe,

you know what I mean? But, but at the same time, I

knew no matter what, dad was there and, and he was a truck

driver and he was a, and he was a minister.

So there were times that he wasn't home, but when he was

home, he was there. And, and so anyway, I've tried

to make sure that that my kids know and, and I try to let you

guys know as much as I can. If you ever need me, I got you.

Well, let me say this, just like with my nieces and nephews that

I've got, they've depended on me for, but yet is that like as

they have depended on me now they've turned that dependent

dependency to Mac and I told Mac, I said to Mac, I'm going to

be gone and they're going to depend on you.

And so and they have, would they have something to eat or what

was it like when my nephews passed away and my sisters

passed away? They look for Mac to preach the

funeral. And I told Mac I said, you've

got to be ready for that now because you going to take my

shoes. And I'm glad there's somebody

that able to take pick up my shoes and go on with it.

And Mac and Mac's doing a great job with my nieces and nephews.

What I was, I love that because one of the biggest things and

how that affects me is you. You, you maybe don't realize the

effect you have on people that you don't exclusively interact

with, because the effect you had on Brother Mack changed his

perspective and it taught him how to, to be patient in the

same way. And that affected, I would say

at least two out of the three of us from me and Colby, because

when we, when we were there, you, you Remember Me, I was just

punk. But.

Yes. You know, you, you have that

patience with, with me. He had that patience with me.

Let me into his home, didn't even know who I was.

And that's, that's, that's a remnant of the fact that you

were patient with him. So that just shows the domino

effect that your attitude and your outlook on things can have

on people that you may not even directly work with or talk to.

And that's just, that's so huge to me.

And I think that ties back to church community because I think

now in the world, there's not a natural place for you to, to

find friends, even, you know, and find your own community.

And I think that's why you see all these gravitations to

different small sects of community, you know, And then

with Mack, his influence that's directly influenced from you has

passed on to us. And I think that strong network

of fathers, even I've got two boys now.

And then if anybody gives me a buzz, because I've seen men and

and leaders in my life have that mentality, I think that's just

going to trickle out to everybody else.

And hopefully one day I'm sitting in y'all's shoes where

I've lived in my life that type of way where my kids and then

their friends have that same mentality because they've seen

it done. But I, I think ultimately it

strengthens a church community because it does feel like a

family. I know if I am in trouble at

all, I can call Mack anytime. And I've done it several times

in the past. We don't have talked about but,

but I have done it several times in the past.

And and the same time, there's times where I wasn't living for

the Lord necessarily and called Mack, needed him to come through

for me and he did without any judgement.

So much respect, which we're not going to dive into, of course.

And we don't need to make, we need to make sure your dad

doesn't know anything about those situations either because

he didn't know then. He had a funny way of figuring

out though, I'll tell you that. Pop, during your ministry, did

you ever see any significant miracles that you just said?

This has to be God. Yeah, when we passed it in Cobb

in Illinois, I saw a woman that was death in the right ear.

I seen God unstopped that ear and then I had a friend that on

the on the restaurant there in Anna, IL, he come down with

cancer and they had to take him to Saint Louis for treatment.

Well, I took the elders from our church in Cobbet and we went to

Saint Louis and to pray for him and we seen God heal him of

cancer there in Saint Louis. And he come back home and

testified about how God had reached him up.

Yeah, I saw that. And well, I've seen, I've seen

things like that, you know, many times.

And then then I've seen God save people, that people, they, they

hope for them. You know, Derek Milton, actually

one of the dope little guy that was dealing in dope, known in

the Santa Rosa County as one of the biggest dope dealers.

He began to come to our church at Milton.

You remember Eddie Evans and we saw him come to the Lord and God

filled him with the baptism, the Holy Ghost.

And we so we seen how God had changed people's lives.

But now I want to say this, that's where that's where the

I've seen people fail. Now Eddie, come to the Lord, he,

he and his wife both and family was coming, but people could not

get over the fact every time they saw you, every time you

mentioned Eddie's name. Oh, he's dope.

He's a dope man. He's a dope man.

He's a dope. They would not let him get live

out from under that shelter. And to my knowledge, Eddie went,

Eddie went back on the Lord and I guess he died lost.

He died very early in life. But that's what I'm talking

about. We we can't afford to be

judgmental because when God saves people, he saves them from

what they were. But that everyone, when you Oh

yeah, remember him, He's the 1. You could go to get dope.

You could go get dope. And he he couldn't seem to.

And and so it that troubles me that really, but at least I did

see God bring him in. He was baptized and filled with

the Holy Ghost. Catherine was baptized and

filled with the Holy Ghost. Her sister was baptized and

filled with the Holy Ghost. But but because people were not

careful about how they handle people, I think all of them

finally went back on God. I'm not sure, but it troubles

me. It bothers me.

We need to, you know it, we need to let people if when God saves

and we need to let, let God handle all the past, you know,

but you can't change the past. I mean, I wish I look at my

life, I look back and there's things in my life I wish.

But once I do, I mean, it's like water under the bridge.

You can't bring it back. You can't change your past.

All you got to say, God forgive me for what I've done and let

and just go on, but some people just can't let you pass.

They can't leave it alone. You touched on something there

too, because he asked about miracles and I think this is

some mindset for us. But like the man that was

lowered into the room with Jesus, right?

What's the first thing he told him was like, go, your sins are

forgiving you, right? And then when the Pharisees

didn't believe, he says, what's easier to to tell him that his

sins are forgiven or to get up and walk.

And then he performed a physical miracle.

But what you said right there, the miracle is that we can have

that salvation. It don't matter how far we get

away from God. That's always there.

And then on our part as a church, that that story's

heartbreaking And you trust the mercy of God.

That's for me because it's it's hard for me a whole lot,

especially in that situation where you say, was it other

humans that led him to turn away from God?

It's you trust the faith and the mercy of Jesus that he showed me

that hopefully he found him no matter what and his time of life

and he still had that opportunity.

For salvation. That reminds me of the story in

Luke with Jesus where they, they, he, he anointed them to go

out and cast out the demons and they came back and he said we

were able to cast out demons. And Jesus says that I saw Satan

fall down like lightning. But don't rejoice over that,

right? Don't rejoice over this power

you got. Rejoice because your name is

written down in heaven. That's right.

I. Was going to I was going to say

something real quick, you know, because and this is this is

something that I've kind of been stuck on for a little while in

our in our society today and then and Pentecost as a whole.

I think sometimes we forget the miracle of salvation as we know

it to, to have that revelation, to see the need to repent, to be

baptized, to be filled with the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of

speaking in tongues and then be obedient to do it, that it's a

miracle. And so I've heard stories not

just from mom and dad, but of, you know, Dad's ministry,

especially on the evangelistic field.

I know that I think all three of y'all have heard Pop preach.

And this is, I'm, I'm giving him a hard time a little bit, but

y'all, y'all heard him preach as an older man.

So he tended to be a little long winded and that that's because

that's because so much wisdom was in there.

You know, I need to make sure and mention all of it.

But, but correct me if I'm wrong, Dad.

But when, when he was on the evangelistic field, usually 20

to 30 minutes of preaching. And by that time, the Spirit's

fallen and there were hundreds and maybe thousands of people

that had been filled with the Holy Ghost ear and revivals that

he and mom were part of because mom and dad both were, were very

sensitive to the spirit. And dad knew when to when to

shut it down. He knew when God was ready to

move and he would just go ahead and shut it down as far as the

preaching goes and do the altar service and, and it was time to

go. And he, he learned that from his

dad. Maybe they didn't realize it,

but Papa was always that way. I remember as a as a little kid,

you know, Papa would be up preaching and Papa could really

preach a long time if even if he tempted, if he took a notion to

but he'd be up preaching and then he would just, he would

just shut it down and give an altar call.

Yeah, the thing about it, just like there's times Kobe and I'd

be leading, Sir, leading servants and everything.

Carol played the piano, you know, and I would, God would be

begin and I'd be preaching and I would turn to her to tell her

what course I wanted. And all of a sudden she starts

singing it. The very course that God laid on

my heart. I mean God put us together

because we work so well together.

I mean she has I've never seen anybody that it could have the

leading of the Spirit. Carol knew exactly what courses

are saying at what time. I've seen other places today.

It bothers me sometime when I see preachers get up and give

the preach their heart out and then whoever comes with the they

have a song so far out from what the guy was preaching about that

it don't fit, you know, but now curl wasn't there.

I mean, it seemed like every time she got going, it would it

would harmonize with what God was doing.

And that's how you keep, that's how you keep the flow of the

Spirit going. You, I know you got to, I know

you got to practice and I know you got to come together.

You got, but you can't program God and you cannot program a

service. Now you might go there with the

intentions. This is what we're going to do.

But in doing what you think you're going to do, God gives

you a 90° curve. Well, you got to be willing to

make that curve. If you don't make that curve,

you going to wreck you see what I mean?

But a lot of people will ignore the leading of the Spirit and go

over because they, oh, this is what I've got planned.

But you can't plan God. The Bible says who can know the

mind of God? All we can do is be led by the

Spirit of God. Like I said, yeah, we've got

their mind mindset where we like, but then my God see what

it is. God knows who's going to be

there and God knows what their needs are.

That's right. I've told you many time and I've

told you, K sure, study and have your message be open.

Be open to the leading of this. If God leads you someplace else,

go with it. I've told Kim that.

I've told Mike that. Be willing to be willing to

forget your notes. If your notes is not where God

wants you to go, you go with where God wants you to go

because God knows who you're ministering to.

So that's why we always need to be open to this leading of the

Spirit. And then that's the way That's

what I always appreciate about Carol.

She seemed like she always knew exactly what I needed when I

needed it. We, all three of us, are young

married men. Well, young figure speaks I

guess, but younger and married man, I know he's he's aging up

there. You talked about your

partnership and even for us, I mean you, you look at y'all's

relationship and all of the years y'all have been together.

Do you mind talking about the importance of having a wife that

is your partner and how y'all coincide and really complete

each other not just even on a daily but in your ministry?

Also, well, it's very important Kobe, because of if you don't

have a, a a companion that that can work with you in harmony,

you're not going to be your ministry is not going to be

successful. I feel like that's one reason we

now we did have we were very successful on the evangelistic

field and what church we pastored they they they they

were successful, but we just didn't stay very long at one

place. But it actually, I guess it,

that was my calling because that's the way my dad was really

daddy with places. But but you, you got to be

willing to, I mean, you got to have somebody that has the same

calling that you've got, because if they don't have that same

calling, then they don't feel the same urgency that you have

to fulfill the ministry. And I believe that's why I

walked Carol and I had, we had that calling that was together

and it if it wasn't there, we would have never been

successful. You know, it's kind of hard to

answer those. Yeah.

Does it take work or did did it just come natural for you?

Well, it was Carol and I just came natural.

I had some people. It may take work, it may take

work. But it seemed like, like I said,

before we ever got married, we still worked in the local

church. She was the piano player and I

used to lead service. So we we always worked together.

And then on weekends when I was preaching on like a Friday, on

this Saturday, she would go with me and play the piano.

We'd same culture. So we always, even before we got

married, we worked together as a, as a couple.

You know, in fact, we weren't even going together that time.

And I'm sure we went out, we went to church.

I mean, she went with me to help me work, but we weren't even

dating. In fact, I think she might have

been dating my brother at that time.

I'm not sure. So you're saying she got enough

to? Drink the bomb.

I'm not sure she did she did date my she dated my twin

brother for a while and her sister got upset.

Had to recall my her sister was like her my twin brother.

But no, like I said, we was working, but they were.

Twins so. Yeah, we were twins and y'all

look. Similar, right?

Yeah. No, they they looked identical.

Why? Couldn't the sister get over?

It when we were when we were before we got married, Monk

would call Carol pretending to be me and she was taught she was

told because she could. They couldn't tell us support

and she would and she would tell Monk all these things, you know,

But anyway, like I said, but so we we worked together before we

ever got married. But it's like I said it, it just

come to Kobe. Just kind of came natural, son.

That's crazy. Jared.

Yeah, Jared testing your grandson just pulled out some

pictures. I may be looking at two

different people, I don't know. Yeah, that's.

Crazy. What was your relationship like

with your brother? Very close.

Yeah, it was, it was one of the hardest things I ever went

through when I lost him, I'd be but yeah, we, we, we was always

close. It was always together, always

spent our time together. Even after we got married, We,

we made sure we had time to spend together.

And I, that's what I've always told Jared and Jayla.

I would love to see them create a closeness that Monk and I had

because like I said, it was, it was, we had a very close

relationship. In fact, I think Monk, I think

Sharon, that's Monk's wife was Carol sister.

She varied. My twin brother Monk, I think

Sharon was kind of jealous of my mum's relationship because she

said mum whether spent more time with me than she had he had with

her. So I don't know.

But when we was when we was together, we we were together,

but I lost him. He he was, he was, he was killed

on his job. That was what that was one of

the hardest things ever faced that.

And then I lost Donna. Donna was dead.

My my ex-wife died Donna and I was real close.

I really, I really hurt there. So earlier y'all one of y'all

ask and I and I thought about this and I know we're probably

way over on time, but y'all one of y'all ask what one of the

what kind of advice you would give on living through a

difficult situation. And he talked about faith and

how God provided on the evangelistic field.

And and I hesitate to bring this up, but leaning on God from an

emotional standpoint, I don't know which one was more

difficult, whether it was Uncle Monk or, or Donna, But I know

watching, watching him live through it with my Uncle Monk.

I was dealing with my own with Donna, But watching him live

through it with Uncle Monk and seeing him come through that, I

don't know if you can, but if you could share a little bit

about, you know, I know you, you struggled my SO just to give

out. I'll set the foundation and then

you can finish it for me. Uncle Monk was electrocuted

hanging or replacing light bulbs at a football stadium, so he was

hit with 7200 bolts twice immediately when they got him to

Shands Hospital in Gainesville, FL, they amputated his right arm

at his elbow and they amputated his left left leg just above his

knee. And for a while there, they

thought they could save his, his left arm.

And he was left-handed, Dad's right-handed.

Uncle Monk was left-handed. And you know, they kind of

completed each other, but, but anyway, they ended up having to

take his arm, his left arm at the shoulder because the poison

was just too much. And they were having to keep him

pumped full of fluids. So he was very unrecognizable

except in the eyes. You, you could barely see his

eyes, but you, you could tell it was Uncle Monk in his eyes.

And I only saw Uncle Monk in that state once in the hospital.

And I was 13, maybe something like that when this happened.

But for a long time, Dad could only see that image.

So, Dad, I'll let you take it from there.

I I couldn't sleep for months. All I could see was that

mutilated body. And I was up preaching.

But I was going to Brother Baines in Lebanon, IL Yeah,

Tennessee at this time. And but the Baines had asked me

to preach. I told him.

I said, well, but the Baines I'll try.

I said I don't know if I'll be able to or not, but Sister

Baines told me, she said, but Eddie, when you got up behind

that pulpit, she said I saw your knees buckle.

She said I thought she's going to drop.

But she said I saw 2 angels come down and they took you by the

elbow and lifted you up. They held you up while you was

preaching. I couldn't get that vigil of my

brother's body out. I don't know.

It was a vision. I don't know it was a dream.

But I saw God showed me my brother in Gainesville, my

brother's house, he had what we call a Florida room and we had

two recliners there, Monk said. One Monk wants 1.

Then I said to the other one, and I saw myself sitting in my

chair in the in the Florida room, 'cause Monk wasn't there,

Monk was gone. And God showed me Monk standing

in the doorway that led to the dining room from the Florida

Room. And God says, Ed, the next time

you see Monk, that's what you're going to see.

You're not going to see a mutilated body.

That's how God will need me from the.

Moon. I was caring because I know when

I see moon I will see a whole body.

Glorious pie. Thank you Jesus.

Thank you Jesus. Thank you Jesus.

I love you, Lord, but that's how God delivered me.

So God delivered. Me thank you for sharing with us

pop that's powerful and real and people need to know the strength

that that God gave to you to carry on so thank you for

ministering and you ministering to me in my heart right now Papa

and I appreciate. Well, I'm glad I'm able to share

it with you, son. God been blessed.

Usually I ask at the end, what kind of lessons would you pass

on to those, but I think you've already shared, you've already,

you've already told us what that.

So I appreciate would you just give any encouragement to those

who might be listening to keep, keep the faith, keep going?

Just all I can say, Cam is just just keep loving God and serving

God and trusting him. And we learned we need to learn

to put our complete dependence on him in the spirit.

If we could learn wholly how to to put I'm still I'm still

learning this. I don't think any of us has ever

got to the point that we've learned how to fully put our

dependency upon him because we still trust ourselves too much.

But we got to realize that only Jesus can carry us through

whatever problem or whatever circumstance, whatever

difficulties we're going to face, only God knows the answer

and he knows a way through it. So if we can just Simply put our

hands in the hands of God and say now God, I'm just your

child, lead me to where I need to go and just trust him and

believe him. This there's what they going to

tell you boys for sure. He'll he'll never let you down.

He's there. He's there for you.

She'll just trust. Him as we kind of come to a

close, I just kind of want to reiterate to you one more time

what I said earlier just so that you can, you can know, but I, I

truly mean this. I truly value having you and

even even Nana in the church and you guys are coming in every

Wednesday, every Sunday. And you may not see it, but I'm,

I'm a very visual person. My wife makes fun of me because

I just, I analyze a lot of things.

But when I see you make your way up to the front almost every

Sunday and, and just to be close, that that resonates a lot

with me. And I just want you guys to know

how much like it means to me to see you guys there, to see you

being willing to be open and still teaching us and still

working with us to let you know that you know, God is still

using you, even if you don't feel like it or see it because

we, we're watching you. And I just want to know how much

I value just being able to see you guys there.

Just be able to see you praise. And it, it, it always brings a

smile to me when we're in the middle of a Sunday service and

the preacher will say something and I'll hear from the back

about 50 yards back, I'll hear you from the back yelling, you

know, praise God, Hallelujah. That's right.

Amen. And I'm like, that's pop.

He's still going strong. You know, that's, that's, that's

such a valuable thing to me in a church in general, having an

elder there who is a rock. And I, when I say a rock, I mean

a rock, someone that you can rely on, depend on and know that

they're going to be there and they're going to be just what

you've been through. And I just, you know, that

resonates a lot with me. And I just want to let you guys

know how much I value it. And I appreciate having you guys

here and being involved in my life, even if it's not directly,

but I could still say, you know, you guys have had an impact on

my life personally. Well, I appreciate that, Johnny,

and I'm glad to hear you say that because be honest with you,

now I'm going, I'm just going to be open.

In fact, I'm making this secure the other day.

I really don't know. I really don't know why I'm

still here because I don't feel like there's, you know, I don't

feel like there's anything that but if me being there can be a

blessing to you, maybe that's why God has left me here.

Just a baby being be a blessing to you because I want to be a

blessing where I am. Absolutely.

I just, I think that people, people need to see, need to see

that this life is worth it, that you can make it to the end.

And every time we see you pop, we see what how God's going to

hold us up as we go through. So we think we're thankful for

you. Like John said, every single

week. I appreciate it.

I sure do. Thank you.