Episode #8 Feat. Mac Teston and Seth Teston

All right, Thank you all for joining us once again and coming

back to hear us. We got 2 very special guests in

with us today. We got our first father son duo

in the house. They're going to be talking.

We got Brother Mack testing and and.

For a set test. Popping back or not?

Gotti, Gotti, were you there? OK, so we start from here.

Hello I'm. Malcolm Gladwell.

OK, look, it's 9:00 PM. John, I don't know what you want

out of us. OK, OK, if we stop laughing, we

can go. Sounds good, Let's get an ad

read and then we'll come back with the intro.

Yeah. All right.

So thank you all for joining us once again, this is on the

Lifegate podcast. We got Father, son Dual here

with us tonight. We got brother Mac testing and

brother Seth testing, and we're pretty excited about this.

We've been looking forward to the opportunity to speak with

Y'all, and thanks for being on the show with us.

Excited to be here. Likewise.

And we got Colby and Johnny as always.

You know, homeboys hold it down and so.

Thank you, Cam. Brother Mac, we'll go ahead and

get started with you. You come from a very, we've

already we, we've already talked with pop in the podcast, but you

come from a very rich family that's been in church, it's been

serious about God and obviously that continues on.

You're blessed with a rich family all the way around.

But could you just talk to us about the impact that your

family had in your life, especially early on?

Yeah. So you know, anybody that was on

the podcast before or anybody that listens and heard Pop or

has heard anything about Pop's testimony, kind of heard how his

family came into it. So it was Pop's mom and dad that

came into the truth out of the Methodist in Church of God

church. Well, Mom's side, my Papa

Barber, my Mimi, they also were in the Church of God church and

actually received the baptism of the Holy Ghost in the Church of

God church in a little bitty place called Otter Creek, FL.

And then they went to a tent revival that was held in Otter

Creek by Brother DL Welch. And at that tent revival is when

my Mimi and Papa actually got the revelation of the oneness of

God. And so they were baptized and

when they told their Church of God family that they were

baptized in Jesus name, they were disfellowshipped from the

Church of God church. So there was a a little bit of a

church started in Otter Creek, a little bit of a Pentecostal

church started in Otter Creek. And from there, my grandparents

moved to Gainesville and there were several efforts to get

something started, a little bit of a difficulty getting things

started. The age that it was, there were

still not much integration. So, you know, a lot of a lot of

people were trying to integrate the churches, especially in the

Pentecostal faith and society wasn't having that at the time.

So it took a little about to get it off the ground.

But brother by name of Brother Duplicity who was a pastor in

Miami, FL came up to help get a church started in Gainesville

and my grandfather was working with him.

Brother Duplicity helped the church buy land and they went

and ordered the material for the first church there in

Gainesville and and during that time Brother Duplicity went back

to Miami to finish some stuff he was doing down there and

actually passed away while he was gone.

My grandfather then mortgaged his house to pay for the

material that Bert built the first church in Gainesville, FL.

So on my dad's side, I've got a man that started and renewed

several churches throughout the Pentecostal faith.

And then I've got my mom's side that my grandfather mortgaged

his house to build this church and was a lifelong member of

that church until the day that he passed.

So lot of lot of rich heritage going on there.

Is it the same church that Jimmy Tony is preaching at right now?

It is, yes, Sir. Same church.

I don't know if it's still there, but there used to be a

little glass case that had my grandfather's hat that he was

notorious for wearing. So, you know, when you, when you

think about that, I feel blessed that my dad's side of the

family, of course, was what I like to call the Levitical side.

It's all ministers. My mom's side of the family, my,

my, her. Her dad had several brothers

that were pastors, ministers. He never was.

He was just an elder, secretary and treasurer.

But most faithful man I've ever known.

So. So growing up, what was the

influence of those people in your life?

I mean, you grew up around, like you said, such rich heritage.

You know what I mean? Like you came out, obviously

you're, you know, your father was, was a pastor.

So what was your influence growing up from from these

people? Well, I mean, church was

everything, you know, and, and there was, there was a time in

my life that, that that didn't mean a lot to me.

But when I was younger, I mean, there, there wasn't ever a

question of what are we doing today?

If it was Sunday, we were going to church and then we were going

to church Sunday night and then we were going to church

Wednesday night and then we were going to prayer meeting and we

were going to up to the church on Saturdays to help make peanut

brittle or help lay block for the new church building.

I mean, everything in life revolved around what was going

on at the church. And so church was a vital, vital

factor in our everyday life, especially, you know, as a kid,

dad being a pastor and assistant pastor, you know, of course we

had the conversations about how we had to act and needed to act

and not be an embarrassment to the church.

And, you know, those kind of things, which, you know, made it

a little tough sometimes. But yeah, I mean, even though I

spent several years backslidden since I've been back in church,

it's not a, it's not a question of when it whether or not I'm

going to go to church, when it's time for church.

It's not a, it's not an option. It's it's my duty, you know, so

that that influenced me greatly. Do you mind diving into that a

little bit? I'm when I've had a period where

I walked away from church as well.

And I think a lot of us that haven't walked that path our

entire life and have strayed in different ways.

I would like to hear that story of a you walking away and kind

of turning your back on faith for a little while.

And then what brought you back and what was that like?

So I try not to, I try not to go too deep, but I, I think the

first time that I ever remember feeling the presence of God was

in a, in a church in Baghdad, Florida that my grandfather

pastored and my dad was the assistant.

It was an old white church building.

I think it used to be some kind of store or something, but it

was two-story. It was scary after dark.

And if you were left in there by yourself, like when you fall

asleep under the Pew and your parents go out to eat and then

they forget that you're there, you don't know if any of that

that's ever happened to you guys, but it's definitely

happened to me. I think when it happened to them

it was on purpose. It's very possible.

Just for reference, Johnny was pointing at Cam, not Colby.

But I was probably about 8 years old.

You know, I don't know about you guys, but probably wasn't paying

a lot of attention. But when the altar call was

given, I feel the Spirit of God just thinking about it.

But when the altar call was given, my grandfather had a very

powerful way to give an altar call, very convicting way wasn't

harsh. He could be harsh outside of

church, but he wasn't harsh with the altar call.

It was very, I don't know, it was beckoning and I just felt

that and I, I didn't feel comfortable going to the altar.

My mom was playing the piano. I remember going to the to the

piano and just just weeping before the Lord.

I guess that's probably the first time I repented.

I felt the need to repent. Wasn't baptized until a couple

years later. I was about 10 years old,

baptized in Santa Rosa Bay, down there in brackish water.

So that's what makes me special. But anyway, the so I, I knew I

needed to be baptized. I think I understood it fully

why, why I needed to be baptized.

Felt like that was the right thing to do.

Didn't get the Holy Ghost until I was 12.

And that was when we were in Gainesville.

We had moved to Gainesville for a little while to, to help with

my grandfather who was sick. And so we lived there.

And that's where I ended up receiving the Holy Ghost in the

same church that my grandfather had mortgaged his home to build

that church. And brother Arnold was the

pastor at that time, shortly thereafter.

I mean, I don't know, I could go back and say I was a lot of the

pressure of peer pressure in school was very multicultural

big school that I wasn't used to in Gainesville.

I really, really loved playing football.

I was fairly good at it. And so it came down to, I think

I, I think one thing that happened is I had to make a

decision was I'm going to pour myself into.

And selfishly, I decided I wanted to pour myself into

football rather than, rather than church.

And, and I, and quite honestly, growing up as a pastor's son and

grandfather, as a pastor and preacher, and I had this sense

that I didn't know that I could live the life that I needed to

live. And looking back on it, I

wouldn't have admitted it back then.

But looking back on it, I knew I had a call to preach.

I knew that that was part of what I was going to be doing if

I, if I did this. And I didn't want to do it.

I didn't want to take the take the aggravation that my scene,

my dad and my grandfather have to deal with.

I didn't want to have to deal with that.

I still don't feel called a pastor.

I've never felt a call to pastor, but I know that's that's

what caused me to kind of hesitate.

And I hesitated just long enough that I opened the door to sin

and, and, and I just went all in and didn't want to hear anything

about church. I got angry about it, bitter

about it, blamed everybody, you know, like we do.

But at the end of the day, it was just because I didn't want

to submit my life to that. So for the next several years,

probably 13 years, I didn't live for God.

And that wasn't long after I received the Holy Ghost and I,

we had moved to Tennessee. Dad was assistant pastor of a

church in Tennessee, and that's where I ended up graduating high

school. I met my late wife.

We were married. We never discussed anything

about church. She knew I was Pentecostal.

I knew she didn't have much church background.

We, we weren't worried about that.

That wasn't a thought, you know, We were just in love and happy

to be together and looking forward to our life together.

I will say that we were true to one another and the time that we

were married before we got in church and went to church one

Sunday just to get my dad to shut up and leave me alone

because he alluded to it. I didn't want to correct him.

But Seth was actually about a year old when dad really started

putting the pressure on me about I'm going to come get him if

you're not going to take him to church.

And so I talked Donna into going in to going to church on a

Father's Day. We went to church on Father's

Day. We got done with church, we went

home, she didn't say anything. The next Sunday, she woke me up

and said, hey, we, we need to get ready to go to church.

And I said, no, I told you we don't have to worry about that,

you know, and, and she said, you don't understand.

I've been looking for this my whole life.

And I mean, of course I'm looking up at God.

Like, man, what'd you do to me? You know, you've been working

this the whole time. And so, I mean, that was in

1996, 19 June of 1996. And so it took me a few

services, but we were in a little country church in

Carthage, TN country in Pentecostal church.

And I remember walking to the altar and I remember saying, all

right, God, you say you're merciful.

They say you're merciful. I've done a lot.

Let's see, I didn't even make it to the front man.

And I fell on my face and didn't feel anything but but love.

I didn't feel any condemnation any, any about time you get your

act together. And thankfully I was in a little

country church where everybody was just so happy that that I

had come back to God, that I didn't get any judgement.

You know, all the stuff that I feared didn't happen.

So I like to say, and I've told Seth this and I've told all the

kids this, that when I got the Holy Ghost, I think I was

infatuated with God. At that moment.

I fell in love and I've been in love ever since.

Now I've had my times, you know, where, where doubt and fear and

everything creeps in. But that was I accepted my call

to preach in 1997. And so that's, that's kind of

how I how I came back and I don't know if I clarified

everything about what you were asking me or not, but probably

took a lot longer than you expected.

No, that's that's exactly what I was hoping for.

That was pretty good. Can I?

Ask you something when you were, I'm sorry, can I ask you

something? Whenever you were away from God,

did you ever have any moments where you felt like God was

tugging at your heart? You know what I mean?

Like you felt like God was like, right there, 'cause you know, a

lot of people struggle with the idea of an act of God, you know

what I mean? Was there any moments where you

just felt like God was calling you home?

Yeah, that it happened way more than I wanted it to.

I would run into people on the street that I wanted to be mad

at because they were from the church and I couldn't because

they were, they were just such good people.

And I've been in, I mean, I don't, I don't want to get too

graphic about it, but I've been in bars and felt the presence of

God had to get up and walk out, you know, just I knew I didn't

need to be there. My buddies all saying, where are

you going? I said I can't be here right

now, you know, and, and argued with God on the way home.

What are you doing? I told you to leave me alone,

you know, And so I know it sounds crazy that you would,

some people would say that I was tempting God.

I don't know. I'm just, yeah.

But I, I used to get in arguments with my buddies, all

my buddies, you know, we're of different denominal faiths.

And so they would want to start talking about salvation at the

worst possible times. And we would get to talking

about it and, and and then I would make them all mad and

they'd all want to fight me because I was telling them

they're all going to hell. You know, I didn't have any kind

of savvy at all, you know? But you know, you don't do it my

way. You're not.

You're not, right. So yeah, definitely felt it all

the time. We just did a sat down with the

hyphen boys and something that you mentioned that they

mentioned as well that I could relate to was people don't

realize just how slippery or slopes and is where you, you

take one small step and, and you think this is not bad.

And then you take another step and like, we're good.

Then you take another step and then another step.

Before you long, you realize I'm a mile away from where I

started. And I think it's, it's

interesting to me that it's it that's never changed even from

when you were going through all that versus when I went through

all of that versus when those young guys went through it.

It was the same thing. It was you, you you see the edge

of the Cliff and you're like, I'm not going to go get close to

that. I'm not, I'm not going to do

that. I'm I'm smart enough not to do

that. But before long you done stepped

yourself down to where now you're hanging off the edge of

the Cliff because you didn't think you'd go that far.

But every little thing got you there.

How do you think that was was, is that how it was for you in

that process? Like you'd probably didn't just

immediately go get the Holy Ghost, walk out the door and be

like, yeah, I'm about to head to the bar.

You obviously you, you, you gradually get that.

So that way there is there a way that you could look back and

think maybe I maybe I could have not done that or or or how did

that affect you? How do you look back on that,

that process of how that happened?

Yeah, I definitely believe it starts with opening a door.

That's kind of the way I describe it.

We open doors sometimes that we we have no idea what we're

letting in when we open that door and when we and basically,

no matter what it what Ave. it is, no matter which way we

degrade, it's it's still fleshly desires that cause us to do

that. It's still my arrogance and

still my pride. I'll debate with anybody about

that. It it all goes back to that.

It's it's me deciding that this is what I want.

And when I open myself up to that, then then I start

justifying within myself that something that I once thought

was out of bounds is now OK. And it's, it's basically just a,

the base form of humanism is what it is.

But we open the door to that. And then yes, it takes us much

further than we, there were certain things that there were

certain lines that I didn't cross.

I was still, I was still not a thief.

I was still not, I was still not going to put a needle in my arm.

You know, there were certain things that just, I think out of

fear I wasn't going to do. But pretty much anything else

during those times, all bets were off.

And, and I think that it's because we get caught up in our

own self and then and then it feeds our ego.

I mean, you do some things and then you get accolades for us,

just like football, something as simple as football.

I'm not going to sit here and say that playing football is a

sin, but if I devote myself to that more than I devote myself

to God, then yes, I'm sending it becomes idolatry.

And really, when you're good at football and you get praise for

it, it it it builds you up. Yeah, it's it.

It becomes self worship. Yeah, I mean, that's just

something like I said, I you see it and and it happens with most

all people that you hear when they talk about they walked away

or anyway, man, like that's how it was for me.

It was, you make this one decision and at first you're

like, you justify it. It's the perfect way to say it.

Like for me it was like, and this ain't wow.

That wasn't that bad. I don't feel that bad about

doing that or whatever the case may be.

And then that becomes the normal and then there's the next step.

And I just think that's something that I've, you know,

with this being here, it's like I realized, well, that's

something that not only does it happen now, but it happened.

It's happened all throughout time.

That's something that I think people should, should look at

and be like, well, that's why my dad said I was.

He always wanted to learn from other people's mistakes.

It's just crazy how we always find a way to make our own

mistakes at the end of the day and then slowly work our way

down. So it's just, it's just that's

one way that I was able to, I can relate with that, you know?

Yeah, and I think one, one thing, especially for for the

youth like you mentioned and and all of us, it's like, I feel

like our society today, we're fighting it where we promote

that it's all about individualism.

You know, we don't, we don't even really care about

communities. Forget the church.

We're talking about society as a whole.

We're, we're a Society of individualism and, and it's a

lot easier for Christians to fall down that path.

I think I certainly did been victim to that myself.

And I think in in some way we all face that at some point and

have to overcome it one way or another.

So whenever you read in the Bible, Brother Mac, you read.

Nothing can separate you from the love of Jesus.

How does that resonate with you? It's there's there's truth like,

you know, some people may not understand it the way I

understand it. And I don't I don't mean that in

an arrogant way, but I tried every way to separate myself and

God didn't give up on me and wouldn't give up on me.

So, you know, now granted, I've always been taught and I

wouldn't want to chance it. There is a line that that you

can cross. And I believe when, when my late

wife said we're going to church, that was a line in the sand.

That was a that was a time that God said, all right, boy, I'm

open this door one more time. And I mean, I was already locked

in on, on my marriage. You know, I mean, I wasn't going

anywhere on that. So I was like, OK, all right,

let's do this. One thing I want to get your,

get your, your, what happened with you, but I'd like to get it

from everybody else here too. But another thing we talked

about on Monday with the guys was that, that feeling, that

initial feeling of when you, for them, it was either getting the

Holy Ghost or for you, it would be when you finally came back.

You fall, you fall on your face and you start just weeping.

But there's, there's a feeling that you can't really describe

it, but it almost, I, I described it as like just

weights coming off my shoulder. How would you describe that

feeling you had while you were while you were giving yourself

to God and then when you first walked out after that service

and everything has changed, What's what's the difference of

the feeling on your shoulders there?

So yeah, freedom for sure. It's crazy though, a lot of

people don't think this way. So raised, raised UPC, raised

Pentecostal, strict Pentecostal mom and dad weren't dogmatic

about it, you know, but some of the churches were a little tough

about it. And so even even after God did

that, even after I, you know, felt that love and fell in love

with God and knew that that's what I wanted to do, there was

still a part of my flesh that wanted to fight it.

And so when, when I started talking to Donna about, you

know, church, she was like, what happened?

And I was explaining to her about the Holy Ghost and stuff.

And, and she said, well, I want that, you know, I, I want that.

And I said, well, now I want you to understand something.

If we're going to do this, you know, you got to do this, this,

this, this, and this. And, you know, and, and at the

time, I was just, I was just doing what I thought I needed

to, to warn her, you know, protect her.

But in actuality, when I look back, I was trying to talk her

out of it because that would have given me an out, you know

what I mean? So as, as great as it felt and

as delivered as I was and as free as I was in that moment, as

soon as I walked away from there the next day, I'm trying to

figure out a way to wiggle out of this and what it all boils

down to. And it's, it's the reason it's

difficult is because it's all about submission.

And let's be honest, I mean, I was 2526 years old.

I didn't want to submit, you know, And so I wanted her to

know that, hey, you don't have to submit if you don't do this.

And, and of course, at that time she was like, I'm not doing any

of that, you know, And then in prayer and earnest prayer about

it, it was like God said, Hey, why don't you let me deal with

all that? You just, you just be a good

example of faithfulness. Let me deal with all that stuff.

And so I'd love to say that immediately I got everything

straight. But man, I'm still figuring

stuff out, you know, And you know, I was a young minister.

Wasn't long after that that I knew we were called to

Greenville to help with the church up there and got up to

Greenville. Man, I'm just a young minister

and brother Danny Livingston put all faith and confidence in me

and, and had me as his outreach director and then eventually

youth minister as well, because Corey Mccool would move back to

Michigan and, and he had been the youth minister.

So here I am, you know, just restored a couple years and

Danny Livingston has put all kind of faith and trust in me.

And I'm still pretty arrogant and, you know, judgmental and I

mean, and, but I learned a lot, man, learned a lot.

So I hope I answered that question.

Yeah, I'll just, I'll weigh in on that a little bit.

I think, I think to an extent, you know, we get this kind of

idea of what the Holy Ghost is and sometimes we almost put like

a cinematic view of this like once in a lifetime experience

that from that moment on, everything changes.

And, and while that's definitively true, but to, to

dad's point, there's like this progression that happens.

And then like, as you think about it, we're, we're kind of

reminded that it's the new birth.

And it's like, hold on. So that the Holy Ghost is really

just this, a lot of people have this big long road leading up to

the reception of the Holy Ghost. And it's like now you've arrived

in Christianity, when in actuality you've arrived at

being born again. And it's, it's this kind of

starting point of, of all this new revelation of what life in

Christ can actually be. So it's kind of unique.

My Holy Ghost story is, is significantly younger.

So I'll kind of put this in two ways.

I was 7 when I received the Holy Ghost is at a children's rally.

So in terms of like this radical life transformation, not a whole

lot changed. I was in a, a parent, I was in a

home where my parents were in ministry and and I was going to

be going to church all the time. So I can, I can honestly say

that pre and post Holy Ghost, nothing radically shifted in

terms of my experience at church.

I was in church as frequently as I was before, you know, and, and

we were involved as much as we were before.

But then I, I do think even when you get the Holy Ghost when

you're younger, you do have a point kind of later in life,

maybe as you're turning to adulthood, that there is this

kind of line in the sand moment where God starts to deal with

you about what you're going to be doing in life and, and if

you're really committed or not. And it's not just, you know,

this Holy Ghost moment where you were born again, but it's

actually saying, OK, you you've had some years to grow now and

I'm going to start putting some things on you and some

expectations on you. How are you going to respond to

that? And at and at that point,

there's this real like shift of am I going to go in this

direction or am I becoming, you know, am I going to become more

passive in my relationship with God?

So that, that moment for me was way later into my 20s where

ministry is, is kind of starting to be something that I'm

thinking about. I knew I had the call to preach

for a long time, But you know what?

Now it's, you know, it's, it's really kind of getting serious

about, OK, you may have some opportunities to actually be

involved in ministry and, and the church may need you to step

into leadership roles. Are you ready to live up to what

that actually means? So that kind of line in the sand

moment is, is the real decision there.

So I, I, I do think, you know, the Holy Ghost is as special as

it is. So much is placed on the

emphasis of, of getting that. And you almost get this once

saved, always saved attitude of like, well, I got the Holy Ghost

and it's like, yeah, that's great.

But that's really the, the starting point of our

relationship with Jesus as we know it today, because there's

going to continually be progression and added, you know,

things that God wants to put on you as, as you're tried and

tested and proven to be able to handle those things.

So different, different story entirely because of the, the kid

reception of the Holy Ghost was like not a lot changed.

I went to church again, that's what happened.

But I do think continually as you progress and grow and God,

there's more that gets put on you and it's still that active

response to as God calls or are you willing to respond and and

how does that go? Just a just a couple thoughts on

that. Yeah, I, I, I love that.

And I think it's difficult, especially kids being raised in

church, similar paths, except that I walked away, you know,

and it is difficult with that because you get the Holy Ghost

and we always are like, oh, the Holy Spirit entered my life and

that's it. I'm good.

But then there is that moment in adulthood where you really got

to make a decision and it's got to become your own.

And I'll keep it brief. But our stories, Mack, It's

crazy how our attitudes so much alike in that 'cause even when

we came back to life Gate and we're willing to give it a shot.

And it is funny too, because my wife Caitlin is a lot of the

reason when we were in Nashville and everything.

She's the reason we went up to church at First Church in

Nashville. The few handful of times we did

because I did not want to. I fought her on that so hard

every time we got back down here and I didn't want to hear it at

all. And I could give you a list a

mile long of why we're not going to.

And then you go to that altar. And the crazy thing about Jesus

is it's all about him and he's all about you, you know, and all

the problems I've ever had were, man, that had nothing to do with

Jesus. And, and that's what got me back

was all right, well, I'm going to focus on Jesus.

Pretty good thing to focus on. I think I'd recommend it, you

know, and that's what I'm still doing now.

You know, I'm like, it's so easy for me when you grow up from our

point of view as a pastor's kid and a lot of the veil is

untorned and you see the behind the scenes and some of it can be

ugly, whatever appreciated by that.

But at the end of the day, we're all people.

No matter if you're a minister or not, we're all work walk in

our walk with Christ each day. Everybody's going to fall and

make mistakes. And when we're focusing on

Jesus, that's what got me back was that love that overwhelms

you no matter what you do, no matter how much you don't want

to hear it. It just completely surrounds

your life and is willing to work with you.

That spirit continuing and and so for the rebirth for me, I

think game at 27 and, and I'm still in that, I guess, you

know, to me, I'm still taking baby steps a little bit at a

time, you know, but he's still working on me.

I would like to. Hear a perspective from each of

you, OK. And start with Brother Mack,

obviously, because that's kind of where we finish with the

testimony right there or we were talking about, but what is the

influence of wanting? To be there for your.

Children, how that influence your perspective walking and

then I would like to hear it from each of you, how that

influences your perspective. OK, but we'll start with brother

Matt. So so basically.

How did me want to live the life that I needed to live because of

my kids? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When I came back to the Lord and we started working toward, you

know, like Seth said, that was the beginning.

You know what I mean, Brother Hano says it's we're, we're a

tapestry that God's continuing to paint.

And, you know, that's, that's that's just such a rich way to

look at it. But it's, it's so true.

Love that guy, by the way. Yeah.

Shout out, Brother Hano. Yeah, shout out Brother Hano,

come see us. But anyway.

I started feeling. The call to preach shortly after

coming back to the Lord accepted it about a year after and but

every decision after that was how's this going to affect my

kids and their perspective? And then, you know, I like to, I

like to think that, you know, when we were in the middle of

all of this stuff that we were doing around here in the

beginning, I was here quite a bit and then my work took me

away a little bit. But Seth was up here probably as

much as you guys were. And, and I think that's because

when we were in Greenville, Tennessee, you know, he's six

years old when we moved there, I think two years after we got

there, we started a building program.

And so he's 8910 years old, Michaela's a baby, so she's at

home with Donna. And I'm taking Seth with me and

he's playing Hot Wheels in the sawdust, you know, while we're

working on church building and grabbing nails or screws or

whatever that somebody might tell him to go grab.

So, yeah, the influence of thinking about those decisions.

And I'll say this is this is getting a little further in my

testimony, but one of my kids ask me.

I don't know, Two months ago. Maybe a month ago, what's one of

your biggest regrets? What would you do differently if

you could do things differently? And I said, well, I don't like

to think about changing anything because I'm pretty happy with

where I am, you know? Yeah, there have been some tough

stuff that I've dealt with, but still pretty happy with where I

am. And and so, but every decision

that you make, you know, everything.

Yeah. They're always looking at you,

man. They're always watching you.

They're always seeing how you're going to handle situations where

epistles seen in red of men. But who's watching us more than

our kids? Nobody, you know, they see us

when nobody else sees us. I mean, nobody's seen me

Probably matter than my kids, you know what I mean?

Yeah, maybe Kobe and Cam. I mean, he is virtually like a

son. To you by this point, so that's

true and you've all. But adopted him so.

But absolutely. It's, it's a, it's a big factor.

And we should, we should let that weight of responsibility

drive our decisions more. But it should, it should drive

our decisions more. Yeah.

I'm going to try not to be a total SAP when it comes to

talking about kids. It just preface it's, it's such

a blessing to be a dad just in general.

You know, we've, we've got 2 now.

So it's, it's, it's really eye opening, like the, the whole

miracle of, of life and birth. And then you just start seeing

them mature and it's, it's just incredible to witness.

But when, when Maverick was first born, I, I had a little

bit of a not, not a doubt or a fear, but it was, it was more

like an internalized discussion with God in my personal prayer

time where I was a bit worried about how my life and dedication

and ministry would hinder or hurt his childhood experience.

And it was just one of those things where it was like, OK,

is, is this going to be a situation where Maverick is

always wondering where dad is because dad is doing something

at the church or dad is, is over at so and so's house because

they need something or, or, or what is it?

What is it going to be? And, and I had a little bit of

like, I don't know if it was a, you know, just a personal doubt

that I wouldn't be able to manage that or, or handle that.

And I, I was really kind of intentional with prayer.

Like God, show me what I need out of this because I'm a bit

conflicted because you, you've made me a father.

And I know that I have some responsibilities that come with

that, but I also know that you've called me into ministry

and I know that those two things are supposed to coexist.

And, and I need to know what that means and how that's

balanced. And, and God gradually began to

reveal to me that it's entirely possible that Maverick may not

have the typical childhood. And it, it, it's, it's going to

be one of those things where Maverick is a kid who may spend

significantly more time at the church than some other kids do

because of who his parents are. And, and I don't mean that in

any kind of arrogant way, but what God began to show me was

that he designed and made me and called me to what he's called me

to do. And then he entrusted me, for

whatever reason, I earned that with another life to raise,

knowing the life that he had already called me to.

And, and God really began to kind of change my mindset on the

fact that, yeah, Maverick's childhood and Isaac's childhood

are not going to look typical. But at the same time, they're

going to have a, a, a radically different opportunity to see

aspects of church life similar to, to the what I actually grew

up with. Then then other kids will and

and God really began to to deal with me about the fact that he's

entrusted me in the life that he's asking me to live to raise

two boys and, and I'm blessed to be able to do that.

And it all kind of came to a head.

We were we're at a district youth convention.

This was this past April. We had already moved to

Massachusetts and Amber was asked to sing.

So I was sitting in the in the seats with the boys and Amber

was pregnant at the time, so she was not going to be singing an

altar call. It was a miracle that she had

sang the three songs already. She was extremely out of breath

and she was her feet were hurting and we didn't want to go

into labor two months early. So she was given leave on not

having to do altar call. But as altar call is going on,

I'm, I'm kind of wanting to move toward the altar and I'm working

the altars a bit, kind of laying hands on some young people and

just being able to pray with others.

And I look up and I'm trying not to get jerked up about this, but

I look up and Maverick is actually kneeling at the altar.

He's only two at this time. And I'm like, what, What's going

on? I later find out that Amber, who

had who had kind of got up and she was praying with some

people. She walks over to me and she

said that Maverick wanted to be like dad and go to the altar.

So it was like. OK, I, I got you.

God, you've, you've shown me what this is all about And and I

was obviously thrilled to, to see that.

So it's one of those things now where Maverick knows, you know,

it's Sunday morning. Do you know where we're going?

Well, we're going to church. Oh, we're going to go praise

Jesus. And it's like, OK, I'm glad

you're, you're getting that. And I'm sure Isaac, Lord

willing, should, should the Lord Terry will, will have the same

experience. But it is, there was an immense

pressure about it. I, I don't think it would be

naive to say that that doesn't exist.

But to Daddy's point, we, we really should be more cognizant

of how our actions do affect what our children are going to

be witnessing because it's because Maverick witnesses the

good things, you know, that he's able to say, I should go to the

altar. Conversely, if he witnessed me,

Lord forbid, talking bad about our pastor or talking bad about

somebody at the church, guess what he's going to grow up

doing. So to that end, even in

ministry, we have to be cognizant about the little eyes

that are watching us, specifically those that God has

entrusted us to raise. But it's, it's definitely a

blessing to, to be a dad. And that's something I really

enjoy and that's something that that's.

Something that pastor had talked about in his first podcast with

his story how he got the Holy Ghost so early.

And he mentioned that one of the reasons why he knew to pray and

knew to go to the like he knew that was a thing is because he

watched his uncle Claude pray so much.

And one of the things I told him I said, you know, that's one

thing that at the time I was like that God is really kind of

dealing with me about with with mind as young as he is, same way

Maverick was. But I was like, he's in, he's in

Sunday school all the time. He's he doesn't see altar

collar, doesn't see any of that. And I asked Mike what made him

do that. And he said because I saw and he

just that's where he had emphasized like how important it

is. And I don't think we really

talked about it enough. And I'm glad you brought it up.

And this is coming up a couple of times since then.

But the importance of our children being able to see us

worship, pray and be vulnerable before God because they see it

and they learn from it. And just hearing from the things

that you guys are going through from Pop and his father Mack

with Pop and then Seth and then now Maverick with you.

Like, I don't think we emphasize or see just how important it is

that our kids see us being. Vulnerable with the Lord.

And how much of an impact it makes on them and and and

another thing that God. Convicted me with that on.

Was just just as recently, I was watching the General Conference,

you know, me and Brooke always talked about, you know, I always

said, you know, when he gets certain age, we're going to

start T-ball. At one point in time, I was

like, man, when we get him in hockey, then I realized I can't

afford hockey. So I was like, hey man.

So I was like. Well, you know.

When he turned, you know, the idea is when he turns 3 or 4 or

5 or whatever, we're going, I'm going to start getting them in

so he can get early learning how to play this sport and so forth.

And I, I forget what was said, but Lehman got up there during

General Conference and he had mentioned that he was like, why

are we as parents so eager or so strategic about our kids and the

sports or their education or whatever?

Let's get him in at this age. And this is how we're going to

go about it. But we don't do that with God.

We don't say, you know, at two or three years old.

Well, when he gets to this point, this is when I'm going to

start sitting them down. And this is when we're going to

start doing this Bible study and learning this and learning that.

And, and that hit home for me so hard.

And I even told Brooke, I said, you know what, when he gets to a

point, he sees it all now. You all see him on Sunday, but

he he sees it all now. But when he gets to the point

when he can understand it, I said I was told before I start

focusing on the sports that I want to get him on, We we need

to, we need to start doing our own family thing because I need

to prioritize, prioritize that just as much as I prioritize

sports. And I think that's something

that's just is not common in religion nowadays.

I just, I don't see that very often, at least from what I can

tell. Yeah.

And we? Disregard, I think the weight of

the responsibility because end of the day, when, when you have

the kids, that's a responsibility and similar to

you in that moment with Maverick.

And that's awesome because that's something you, you didn't

intentionally instill. It's a, it's an example, you

know, and it is difficult because let's be real, we, we

all get frustrated, have low moments, especially as fathers.

That's that's going to happen with the kids, though, that that

weight hits a whole lot harder and you have to be a little bit

more intentional with it. I've seen that with my own kids.

Cohen the other night you want to talk about convicting.

We always pray. I've been good about that since

I was like, you know what, I'm going to come to Jesus.

We're going to be a praying house.

Cohen the other night, probably three months ago was a dad.

I I need to get a new Bible and I'm like, OK.

And he's like, well, I ripped that page in it and I was like,

well, you terrible little kid. My God, ask God for forgiveness.

But he he said, I need to get a new, new Bible.

And I said, OK, well, we'll get you 1.

And he says, and then I really want you to read to me.

And I was like, OK, I can do that.

He's like, because I need to read the Bible to learn how to

be good and follow Jesus, right? And I'm like, yeah, how you

doing? I guess I could have been doing

that this whole time, but you're.

Right. And so now every.

Night we we read at least a passage of scripture.

So I think, I think to that end. Just to add something to that to

to quote something that happened at men's conference, I want to

say maybe two years ago is Bishop Davidson who is

preaching, I want to say it was maybe Friday morning, but he

talked about the distinct difference between teaching your

kids and training your kids. Training requires this aspect

that they see you do it. It's an active, like, hey, do

what Daddy's doing as opposed to this is what you're supposed to

do, son. And and that there's a big

difference. But when you read what the Bible

verse says, it says train up your children in the way that

they should go, not teach up your children in the way that

they should go. And it's this, this, this active

engagement that says you kind of have to participate in what you

expect them to do or otherwise they're not going to know how to

do it. And we've actively seen that

now, right where it's like, OK, he's just replicating what I'm

doing. Hopefully as fathers, we're

doing the right thing, right? Yeah.

And 2nd passage. Of that scripture where he says,

and they won't depart it. I think that's funny because I

used to want to throw that in my mom's face because she used to

say that all the time when I, when I, when I was not in

church, I'm like, well, look at that.

You were wrong, weren't you? But then at the same stroke,

like Mack, you say, you know, you've got this Raisin.

And that's my hope for my kids because life is always ups and

downs. And at the end of the day,

they're going to have to buy in for themselves.

You know, they're going to have to find it, but my desire is to

raise them in such a way that when it comes that time and they

hit that line in the sand, they have all that background.

And even if they walk away, it's going to be like it was for me

and you where he keeps knocking, you know, so.

So to that point, and, and I don't think I've ever given Seth

this advice. And, and maybe that's because I

learned it too late in life, but I'll, I'll share this with

everybody I come in contact with, every parent, every young

man, every young woman. I'm sorry.

And the we, we when? I say we.

And I don't think it's just Pentecostals, but it's

Pentecostals have been pretty notorious for it.

We're really good at giving a list of do's and don'ts, and

we're really good at showing them what we should do and what

we shouldn't do. But we're not good at telling

them why, and we're not good at showing them that.

The reason that I'm willing to sacrifice AB and C is because I

love him so much and because he has done so much for me and I

don't deserve any of it. And that's the reason that,

yeah, that stuff might be fun. That stuff might be cool, but if

it means I'm going to lose my relationship with God, it's not

worth it. It's not, it's not worth the

chance, man. And I know I didn't do a good

job with that. And I don't think a lot of

people in my generation, I know the people in my dad's

generation didn't do a good job with it.

And I, I don't think our generation did it.

So putting a little pressure on you, your generation, you guys

do better than we did. I raised Seth to be better than

I was, to make better decisions. And so far he's on track.

He's doing a great job. So it it kind of reminds you of.

Joshua and the 12 Stones on it, the importance of putting

something up as a remembrance of what God's done for you because

and then for us, if we're not vocal about what he's done for

us and This is why we we started this.

If we're not telling people or or putting it out there, you get

to be like the the Israelites where you get a couple

generations and they've done forgot everything.

They've forgotten everything. What meaneth these stones like?

Lord forbid we ever have an opportunity to answer that

question and nobody can answer it, right?

Like, why are we doing this? What, what's the purpose?

And everybody's like, we've just always done it that way.

I don't really know. You know, that's kind of a a

travesty. And so.

So you get there to Tennessee and you you begin your work in

the ministry. Your father, you're you're

trying to you're right in the course.

What kind of lessons did you did you learn during that period?

Do you feel like God kind of impressed on you so?

Like I like I shared before, I never felt led to a pastor, but

bring up Brother Han of it again, when I knew that I was

going to be moving to East Tennessee, I knew that I was

going to be helping with the church up there.

I called him and and I said, hey, I'm going to be moving up

to East Tennessee, going to be helping Denny Livingston Church

up there. At the time it was called New

Life. It's the sanctuary now Brother

Carver's pastor there. But I said, you know, what

advice would you give a young arrogant punk that's trying to

be a minister? You know, and he said, I'll give

you 2 pieces of advice. He said, one, people are crazy.

It doesn't matter where you go, you're going to be dealing with

crazy people, He said, Two, because of your personality,

people are going to gravitate to you.

People are going to want to talk to you.

People are going to want to share things with you and.

There will come a time. That you'll have to fight the

absolute spirit. And he said, remember that

you're there to help the man of God.

You're not there to be the man of God.

And, and I've, I've, I've always felt like I'm what a lot of

people would call an armor bearer.

I want to try to help your dad, Pastor Penton any way that I

possibly can to try try to take some of the pressure off of him,

whatever I can do to help him that doesn't bleed over into the

pastoral side. There's certain things that only

he can handle and I'm more than happy when somebody and and you

can you can probably ask several people in the church that have

come to me with certain things that I say you need to talk to

pastor. I don't I don't deal with those

situations. I get him involved.

And so definitely learn that lesson.

I learned a lesson that I don't need, and I shared this with

you, Cam. I don't need to set expectations

for what my ministry looks like, what style of preaching I'm

going to be preach because I did you know, I mean, let's be

honest, I came up under my Papa Testin was a fireball preacher,

my dad was a fireball preacher, Jeff Arnold fireball preacher.

I mean, you know, I, I grew up in that.

So of course when I start feeling a call to preach, I see

myself as a fireball preacher. Y'all have heard me, I'm not a

fireball preacher. You know, my style is different

and at first that was hard for me and, and at first it made me

reluctant to completely relinquish to the anointing when

I was when I was buying the pulpit and I preached a message

one time while I was preparing for the message.

I. Remember it like it was

yesterday? I remember writing this note

down and I was like, oh, this was going to get them on their

feet, you know, And I wrote that little note down and in my

notebook, you know, and, and I got up and preached and man, I,

I thought, I preached my heart out.

I thought, I, I thought I laid it down, you know what I mean?

I thought I was just really, really do it.

There weren't any amens. There weren't any Baptist nods.

There was, it was quiet, you know, and it wasn't the kind of

quiet that I get now where people are actually thinking it

was quiet because people were wondering what in the world I

was doing. And so I handed the mic over to

one of the other ministers to, to close the service.

And I went over and knelt down and I said, God, I don't, I

don't know what, what happened, you know.

And he said, well, this is what happens when you preach.

And so from that point. On I do my best to pray and fast

before I'm going to be ministering behind a pulpit and

I'll let God just take me where he wants me to go.

However it comes out. I feel like it's what he wanted

me to do and say. So that was a, that was a big

hard lesson for me to learn. And like I said, dealing with

people, I've learned a lot. I, I believe that early on in

Greenville, I was a truck driver.

You know, I, I've never been in a leadership role in anything,

but I learned leadership in the church.

And now God has taken that talent and that gifting that he

used in the church and that he honed in the church with men of

God like Danny Livingston and so many men up there in the

Northeast Tennessee, Southwest Virginia area, that and now he's

used it to help me in my career. I mean, I've spent the last 25

to 30 years leading people, you know, outside of church, and I

learned all of those lessons in the church.

So anyway, I'm on tread. Very lightly here as

respectfully as I can, but there was a very major point in your

life Speaking of Donna and the impact that she had on you.

And if you don't want to go anywhere, let me know.

But this is one spot where you guys both have a perspective on

this. And I, I could not imagine going

through it for either situation that you guys went through it.

But I have seen personally from my view, as it made both of you

a very, very strong in ways that other people could not be.

But could you, Mac, first from your perspective, walk me

through that situation because I'm sure you had to rely on God

probably more than ever before in your life and, and how that

affected you and, and just moving forward from all of that.

So I'll give a little. Bit of background, while we were

in East Tennessee is when I went to work for Cintas.

You know, you look back and. I think I might have gotten a

little bit career greedy, wanted that next step wanted.

I mean, you know, I was. I still say this to this day,

and some somewhat jokingly, but somewhat serious.

I've done a lot of different jobs in my life, but I was never

better at anything than running a route for Cintas.

I was the best, I mean one of the best.

And then that ended up getting me promoted and that's what

moved me to Asheville, NC. Everything worked out.

God took it. You know, people can debate all

day long on how does God orchestrate those things or does

God let you make mistakes and then pull you back to where you

need to be? And I, I tend to lean toward the

ladder. I'm not sure that I was supposed

to take that job for my spiritual life because Asheville

was tough. It was tough on all of us.

Seth was in a school situation that wasn't great for him, the

church situation. We were traveling pretty good

distance to go to a good church. There wasn't a good church close

to us. And I don't mean that any kind

of disparagingly way, you know, disparaging way toward the

churches that were close to us, but it just wasn't what we were

used to. You know, we're used to this

kind of worship. We're used to what we do here,

you know, and we weren't getting that at some of the closer

churches. So we were having drive into

Asheville to Brother Mitchell's church.

And I mean, it was a good church and but we just weren't as

faithful as we needed to be because of the distance and

finances were tough. And so, but it was in that time

that, you know, later I got the opportunity to be transferred to

here, you know, And so God worked it all out.

But it wasn't long after we got here that that Donna had and it

was just a little bump on her foot that we ended up finding

out after she passed that that's where the cancer had started.

But, you know, we had gotten here and we were going to 1st

Church in Athens and we were getting more and more involved.

Seth was involved heavily with the youth group.

Michaela was getting used to everything that, you know,

Jaron's out of her babies. But we were.

We were doing that so. One of the hardest things about

it, Johnny, is that for a year she had a she had a nodule

removed out of her foot and for a year.

It wouldn't heal. And we went to doctor after

doctor after doctor and couldn't figure out what was going on.

I mean, they tested for everything, tested for all types

of cancers. Nothing ever came back

conclusive. So, you know, when she passed,

I, I, I wasn't expecting it at all.

I I was expecting that. She may have to have her.

Foot amputated, it had gotten that bad, but I wasn't expecting

death. And so when that happened, I, I

mean, I went through a myriad of emotions.

Of course I didn't have time to go through a lot of emotions.

I had four kids, you know, and two babies.

Jerry and Jayla were four years old.

So I heard my all my life that going through tough times makes

your faith stronger. I used to think that was bogus,

but it's true. I I wish I could explain it but

it it. It drew me.

Closer to God. Do I still miss her sometimes?

Absolutely. Do I still wonder why it had to

happen that way? Absolutely.

One of the hardest things about it is wondering how it was going

to affect the kids. And the day that I had to come

home from the hospital and tell my 4 kids that mama's not coming

home. One thing's for certain.

There's no telling what I'll go through in this life.

But I don't think I'll ever do anything tougher than that.

And. And I remember, and I just

shared this on a, on a group text.

I don't know who I was on the group text, but I remember I

don't know how long it was after Donna had passed.

I was making my bed one morning and I got a picture of myself

sitting in a pile of rubble, like the rubble that was created

from the tsunami in Indonesia. And it was like God spoke to me

and said, are you going to continue to sit in this rubble

or are you going to rebuild your house?

And it was just God's pointing me back to the foundation

principles of, you know, you got to get your family needs you,

you got to do this. I I don't.

Have a step. Plan of how you deal with that

kind of grief. I went through my moments, I

went through all the phases. I promise you, I screamed at

God, I screamed at the cemetery, I screamed at Donna, I screamed

at the every doctor that had anything to do with it.

Not to their face, you know, in my truck, in my car, by myself,

in the shower after the kids went to bed.

But at the end of the day, it all comes back to one thing, and

that's God still, still there waiting to heal me and restore

me. And would I have picked that to

happen in my life? No, but it's.

It's what got me. Here and then Vicki comes into

my life and I mean, I mean, it's, it's a little hard to it's

a little hard to navigate around that conversation.

You know the love of my life passed but then.

God brought me the love of. My life most.

People can't understand. Or comprehend that and I can't

explain it in a way to help them, but I know it's true and I

know God's been in every step of it.

And I tell people life happens sin.

Came into the world. And so did sickness, disease,

and storms and destruction. And sometimes life happens, and

sometimes God can intervene and keep it from happening, and

sometimes he chooses not to. And in this instance, God didn't

give Donna cancer. The devil didn't give Donna

cancer. I don't give him any credit for

anything in my life. The devil didn't give Donna

cancer. Life happened and Donna got

cancer. And in God's infinite wisdom and

sovereignty, he chose not to intervene.

And faith is not believing that God will, that God can, that God

does. But faith is believing that he

can, He will, and he and he does.

But when he doesn't, being OK with it, that's faith.

And I didn't have that faith until after that.

So I would have, I would have. I would have.

I would have struggled to. Have that faith.

Regardless, through all of it, I don't think there's very many

people who could, in your shoes, say they were strong and they

had faith. I mean so, so I I tell.

People this you know some people would come up to me man, I'm

sorry you lost your wife Let let's.

Let's be clear here. And I said this at her funeral.

Something that's lost can't be found.

She's never been more found. I know exactly where she is.

She's never been more found. So the.

Pop talked about the vision you had of Monk that helped him.

I I reckon that same thought process probably for both of you

guys carries a lot of weight. Is that thought of exactly like

you just said? It's not like you're never going

to see her again. You, you can take refuge and

knowing that when it's all said and done, you're going to see

her again. You're all going to be reunited

again. And not only then, but you'll be

in such a better environment when that happens.

So like I said, it's it's definitely a, a tough thing that

I just, I don't know that I could.

Go through it in the way that you.

Would have had to have gone through it no and I I commend

your. Strength on that too, because.

Man, that's tough. That's tough and and even just

as a dad, you, you, the first thing you mentioned was being

there for your kids, and that says a lot about you and you and

your strengths. Navigate that because I'll be

real. The first thing I would do is

blame God. I'm I'm that type of person and

maybe I'm not there and you were further in your walk with God

that I am, I said I yelled at God you.

Did say that but but. And you don't blame him some you

just. Reminded me though.

And it's, it's the book of Job. You're saying all that and I'm

hearing the book of Job because if you read the book of Job, Job

wasn't happy with God the whole time at all.

In fact, he had a lot of things to say to God.

But the biggest thing about it all was he was talking to God

throughout all of it. The relationship, you have a

relationship, father and son, husband, wife, all of that.

It's not always beautiful. Sometimes you're going to have

fights and all the relationships always there throughout all of

it. And I think that's the thing

with life. You said it rains on the just

and the unjust, right? Life happens.

What we do with it from that point and maintaining that

relationship is for one, you're, you're the biggest testament of

that. The greatest example I can think

of of a putting your priorities straight and raising your kids.

And I hope to be that type of father for my kids that when it

does rain and we're going through storms, that I'm still

going to be able to, to strengthen myself and, and be

there for my kids. Seth for you, because that's

difficult where you're at when you were young and that's that's

before we really met and can. You walk us through some of.

That and shaping that in in your development.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. Let's let's put a personal story

to it. The night before dad comes home

to let us know that we were no longer going to be seeing mom,

There was. I felt guilty about this exact

conversation for a little while. So I was a snot nosed teenager

who was at church on a Sunday night who wanted to go out to

eat with some of my friends that were able to go.

And dad was was at church. My mom was actually in the

hospital at the time. It was at this phase because of

some of the complications from the whole foot thing.

This wasn't super uncommon. And for better or for worse, we

kind of got used to the possibility that, yeah, mom

would occasionally have a hospital stay for some minor

surgery recovery or, you know, just a visit to check on some

things. And, and unfortunately, as dad

alluded to, we never knew that it was cancer.

It was never an oncology appointment.

It was some other thing where they were trying to figure some

stuff out. And it was our life, you know,

for the for the better part of the year that it to some extent,

mom may not be home tonight because she may be staying in

the hospital while they're running some tests.

It never ever and any shape clicked that it was a

possibility that that that conversation would ever happen,

that that I would be waking up for school on a Monday morning

and dad would be waiting in the living room to tell us, hey

guys, you don't have to go to school today.

There's something else we need to talk about.

So rewinding to the Sunday night before, I'm snot nosed little

kid asking dad, hey, do you care if I go out to eat with so and

so will be home by so and so. And dad's response, as it

usually was, was you need to ask your mom because mom was a

little bit more giving dads stress and and and life at work.

Mom was a little bit more the manager of getting us ready for

school and things of that nature and would be able to to have a

little bit more of a say in whether or not me staying out a

little later would make me a butt head the next morning.

To which mom said, no, you, you don't need to do that.

You need to go home and you need to go to bed because you have

school in the morning. And I was like, all right, cool

and hung up the phone And in complete transparency, my snot

nosed little kid self was mad that my mom would not let me go

hang out with my friends. And that was the last

conversation that that we had. So that was that ate at me for a

little while. So anyway, you, you kind of Fast

forward 12 or so hours to, to dad letting us know that our mom

had passed. And it, it's so surreal in the

moment that when you hear that, because growing up in, you know,

elementary school and middle school and different things, you

had always heard these kids had these tragic situations where

it's like, oh, their dad was killed in a car accident or

their mom had this happen when they were younger.

And, and you never even begin to think like, what if that was me?

Like, you never, ever put yourself in in the shoes, if you

will, of like, what would life be like without one of your

parents? How old were you doing?

This was was I-14. Yeah.

I was 14 in 2009, Right. So, so it's it's so surreal in

the moment. You're, there's 1000 things

going on in your head. You're you're kind of at a loss

for words, saying this is just not believable.

This doesn't make any sense. I just talked to mom 12 hours

ago. Her staying in the hospital's

normal, she'll be home. What are you talking about?

You've lost it, etcetera. And then you gradually

transition to kind of the inherent older brother mode

where it's like, hold on, there's younger siblings who are

extremely distraught and you've pull it together, old man,

you've got to be strong for the kids.

You've got to, you know, dad's about to do this on his own.

How are you going to, you know, whatever.

And so at that point, you, you do what's the probably not the

right thing, but the thing that we often do in masculinity,

which is you do this masking of I'm fine and you just wear the

the mask of I'm fine in perpetuity until you realize one

day that you're not. So what I came to realize over

the course of honestly and complete transparency, probably

the next 10 years, is that losing somebody so close to you

made it extremely difficult for me to have intimate connection

with people. And I'm not talking about like

romantically. I'm talking about just the

closeness that people have because you kind of put up this,

this facade of I don't want to get hurt again.

I never want to be that close to anybody to where if they were to

be gone, it would hurt that bad. And it honestly and in complete

transparency, I don't mind sharing this.

It was the first few arguments with my now wife that revealed

that there's, there was still some stuff there that I needed

to deal with in terms of my ability to feel real emotion

because I, I did mask it. You mask it so hard to, to kind

of you. And like I said, you justify it

to, to be strong for the siblings and everything else.

But then gradually there's little Nuggets throughout the,

the years there and in terms of maturing and I, I never got

angry enough at God to where it was like, all right, I'm going

to take this out on you and I'm not going back to church and,

and anything like that. It was a thought that never

really crossed my mind, but there was a couple of like

hindrances and doubts where it was like, OK, is God really in

control of everything? Because if he were, why would

this have happened? What, why would he allow that to

happen? And it's not until you zoom out

several years later that you realize just how in control that

he was. So that kind of alluded to it,

but his marriage to to Vicki was what ultimately brought our

family to Lifegate. And this is nothing negative

about any previous church, but that was absolutely a God timed

movement where I was surrounded by two really good friends and

Colby and Cam and later John. And we also had had our families

join together where Autumn and Ryan became part of the picture

and and we're coming to church as well.

And everybody begin this kind of process of healing now in deeper

emotional levels. That took me longer than I'm

proud of. But moving to Lifegate when we

did was extremely God timed. And then as you zoom out and you

start to kind of examine the picture of just how in control

God was and how he orchestrated everything, it it's like, wow,

how, how did he know? And then you're like, you're

reminded, Oh, he's all knowing. And, and then you, you really

start to kind of turntable that anger and frustration of what

was and to this kind of faith and confidence of, to what is

and what will be. And what I mean by that is like

now I'm really never in a moment where I'm like, what just

happened surprised God. Because in, in all honesty,

everything that we now face, it's just like, OK, God knew

this was coming. It wasn't a big surprise or a

shock to him. He's been in control the whole

time. And if he believed that we could

take it. There's a reason why we're here.

So that that perspective shift has been massive in terms of the

lesson learned, if you will, on, you know, how it's applied even

in life and ministry. Let me.

Let me just add something I'm going to try to take couple

thoughts together. We talked earlier about how your

kids are watching you and how how much weight of

responsibility we need to feel in order to dictate, you know,

how we how we act, how we do, how, what, what we go through

and everything. So we mentioned it.

That can be good and bad, right? So in this instance, with Seth

putting the walls up for his emotions, I'll never forget it

and he may remember it as well. But the day of the funeral where

I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, I'm standing up at the

casket, you know, and greeting everybody, all the family

members and everybody's coming through.

And I mean, just droves and droves of people.

We had people from North Carolina where I'd worked.

My boss from North Carolina came, you know, I had people

from East Tennessee, people from Middle Tennessee, people from

here, people from everywhere, man, just coming, you know,

'cause between the two of us, we had touched a lot of lives and,

and so and God had touched us through a lot of those people.

But I'll never forget when, when it came time for visitation to

start, Seth came up to me. You know, he's, he's 14, but

he's already as tall as I am. You know, he's a string being,

you know, and a lot's changed and he twice the man he used to

be. He comes up to me and he.

Says he says, Dad, should I or can I stand here?

And I said, yeah, you can stand here.

But he said should I stand here? I said it would be honorable.

So he stood there with me the whole time.

He never left everybody that came through.

If if I could have been outside of myself looking, I'm sure he

probably mirrored my actions the whole time to make sure that he

was bringing. Honor to his mom.

Bringing honor to me, to the family, bringing honor to God.

But later, you know, when he was not showing emotion, I.

Tried to talk to him you. Know, I mean, we dad, sometimes

we, we're not really good at having the emotional

conversations, you know, especially with our sons.

I mean, it's a little tough. I mean, but I was worried about

him because he was angry and I knew it was because he hadn't

grieved. I know enough about the

psychology of our way our mind works.

I mean, we have to grieve and it's going to happen sooner or

later. It's either going to happen

little by little or it's going to be an explosion and then it's

going to make a mess. And so I was talking to him

about, you know, grieving and I said, son, I'm, I'm a little

concerned, you know, and, and I said, I haven't even, I haven't

even seen you cry about it, you know, and.

He broke down in tears. And and said you haven't shed 1

tear. And and I.

Hadn't in front of them thinking I was doing the right thing, you

know, being strong and just going through damage control,

you know? But I had to tell him what he

didn't. See you.

Know still took a long time and actually I think a conversation

with with mom Vicki revealed to him some things that you know

that I couldn't you know Vicki was there for him in a way that

I couldn't be and so just another testament of how God

orchestrated everything. But again, he was watching me

and he was doing what I was doing.

I didn't. I didn't.

Have the wherewithal at the. Moment to to let him know that

you know, I was just putting up a good front that you know, in

private I was broken and I was hurting so.

I guess I kind of I got to be the one to lead us into that.

So I'll try to pull us back out of it.

So it's not a ending like pops, but so we we we've gotten to

learn a little more about you, Seth.

But what I haven't heard yet is when exactly you, you got the

Holy Ghost, when you got baptized and you're kind of

progression through spiritually speaking.

I met you when you were just turned 17, I think.

So I can remember that talking. We'll get in that in a little

bit. But before then, let's not get

into that in a little. Bit it's under the blood, yeah.

We, we. We.

Could talk about the first time you came up in my house, home

school and I was like, babe, do you know this boy?

I mean to Colby's earlier point, you know.

We're not the men we used to be. Most of us are twice the men we

used to be. I'll probably almost three

times. That growth rate is just.

Soaring, yeah, so, so total back story, I guess to kind of answer

your question. So once again, I, I, I'd be

remiss not to kind of comment on just how in control God is.

So when I, when I have the opportunity to tell anybody my

personal testimony and how I quote UN quote came into church

and I'm using air quotes because although I was one when mom and

dad had technically got it back into church and dad's case back,

you know, into church and mom's case, you know, I don't really

remember the first year of my life.

So in all intents and purposes, I believe that I've been raised

in church, you know, since I've, you know, been aware, but you

kind of have to look at everything generationally,

right? And, and we've, you know, on the

podcast now you've heard some of pop story Dad has alluded to,

you know, Papa Barber's story, which is Nana's dad.

And and now you've kind of heard his story and just how in

control God is and bringing everything back, whether that

was revelation, you know, in a field somewhere of what one God

meant or dedication to mortgage in your own home, to getting a

church built. Dad didn't say this, but one of

the things that Papa Barber was quoted saying was that, you

know, a lot of people were questioning, like, why, why are

you doing this? Have you lost your ever loving

mind, your mortgage in your own house to build a what?

Why do you care? And his answer and his response

was, I need a place for my grandkids to go to church.

And, and now you actually look in in that church, he not only

has grandkids in that church, but great grandkids and great

grandkids that are actually at that church, the same church.

Now, obviously the building has changed a few times, but so you

kind of have this, this back story in history.

But that experience that Donna, as in my mom had that completely

radically shifted the trajectory of how Mack and Donna Testin

were going to raise their kids is really where that story

starts. Because while I've been raised

in church, you have to you have to step back a generation and

say, OK, why? Why was Seth raised in church?

Why? Why does he have, you know, that

and his back story? And it's because, you know, a

God full of mercy would bring a Mac back into the fold, but a

God full of just absolute mine altering power would reveal

something to Donna who had never experienced it before And and in

similar time frames, show her himself for the first time and

show the full mercy to Mack that says, I know what you've done.

It's OK come back. It is how you know I'm born in

into being able to be raised in an Apostolic home to which I

give honor to both of my parents for their effort on that.

But and and even a generation before that, a pop that would

bug the mess out of my dad to say, Hey, you know, are you

going to raise this kid in church or not?

Right? You have to give honor there.

But so all, All in all, you know, dad kind of gave a little

bit of the the life. But we grew up in Middle

Tennessee for the first three years or so, right after

Michaela was born, we moved to East Tennessee and we were

helping there. We as in not me, 3 year old me,

but we as in my family was helping at the church there.

And there was a lot of miraculous provision that even

made that a possibility when when Dad was working and things

of that nature. But we were there.

I grew up in, in a home where my mom was serving as a church

secretary for the majority of the time we were in Greenville

and Dad was heavily involved in ministry.

So as he alluded to, we were at the church pretty much all the

time. But while we were there, I got

the, I got the Holy Ghost of the Children's Rally that was in

Bristol, TN when I was 7. It was obviously one of these

kind of tailored services for kids getting the Holy Ghost.

I remember, you know, just feeling the need to respond to

what the, the speaker had been teaching about.

And I said, OK, we'll go to the altar and see what happens.

And before you know it, you've got, you know, 20 people trying

to pray with you and, and God just beginning to move in a in a

way that we've experienced so many times since.

But after, after seeing that I'd, I'd been raised right and

taught that baptism was essential for salvation.

So as soon as I got back from that children's rally, we had a

conversation with pastor about getting baptized in Jesus name.

So about a Sunday after that, I was baptized in this massive

horse through because the church could afford a horse through.

We didn't have a big nice baptistry.

The water was rather chilly because it was hosed water that

was ran straight out of the tap from the outside, but an awesome

experience nonetheless. And sins remitted.

Yeah. Goosebumps, huh?

Yeah, definite. Definite.

Goosebumps in that moment. So we spent some time, you know,

there in Greenville, and then we moved to Asheville.

And Dad alluded to this, but in Asheville, there was some

outside influence that was not the best in terms of my kind of

Christian life. While I never deviated from

going to church, my, I would argue that my heart deviated

from wanting to be in church. I was in my parents home, which

was you're going to church and, and to some extent you're going

to worship and you're going to respond to the word and you're

going to altar call. I'm kidding, but you know that

nothing ever deviated from, OK, I won't go to church, but there

was definitely a a separation of my heart from where God wanted

it to be. I wouldn't say full blown

backsliding necessarily, but definitely not in the pursuit of

the relationship that I should have been in at that point.

Having the Holy Ghost for six years, right?

So All in all, we ended up moving to Alabama.

We got involved pretty heavily in ministry when we were in

Athens and 1st Church. Once again in a school

situation, some semi negative influence led me to do some

rather stupid things that resulted in me getting in some

rather silly trouble. Not the trouble itself, the

punishment was justified with the crime.

But anyway, under the blood, under the blood, under the blood

as as we say. But then, you know, obviously

life events and circumstances that we talked about a few

moments ago brought us to to Lifegate, which is really where

formidable ministry formation years begin to happen under the

under the pastorship of obviously Brother Penton.

So kind of unique circumstances being in in music ministry where

the pastor's wife was the music minister and being best friends

with both of the pastor's kids allowed me to be around Pastor a

lot. And that mattered a ton because

even when we were being silly and trying to just bug him for

absolutely no reason, all that under the blood stuff that Colby

can probably talk more to than I can, but you know, silly, silly

things that we were doing to bother Brother Penton.

There was an exposure there that has drastically altered the way

that I look at life and ministry.

There was somebody who said one time that in a relation to

Elijah and Elijah that some things are taught and other

things are caught, meaning that your proximity to the right kind

of people often will give you lessons in life that that that

can't be a classroom setting. You just witnessed the way that

somebody like Pastor Penton responds in a moment of crisis

or in the moment of necessity of prayer, in the moment of

managing something at the church.

So I kind of was exposed to that.

And then obviously Dad has has played a pretty key part in, in

church leadership over the years as well.

So you've kind of seen both sides of that.

But I, I do a tribute a lot of my kind of ministerial maturity,

if anybody wants to call it that, to Brother Penton.

I was raised in an Apostolic home and I give tremendous honor

there. But as it pertains to anything

about the man I am today, I've been, I was blessed to have an

incredible pastor at at Lifegate for 15 years that that led us

kind of to this point. Whether it was church building

projects and hanging out till 10:00 PM at night or going with

him to pick up a church van or, or whatever it is.

There's a lot that gets exposed when somebody who has a burden

for the lost and for ministry is, is who's pouring into you.

Yeah. Have a question?

I'm a preface it so OK, What? Yeah.

I'm a preface it so. OK, so when I had walked out of

church, a lot of it had to do with different hurt and

different opinions of ministry. And a lot of it's probably from

my own vanity because when I was 16/17/18 I wanted to be a big

preacher. You know, that was it.

And I think that was from my vanity and everything.

Well, we get out of church and everything and, and I'm going to

be transparent with you. We're up there not really living

for God, going to church once a month at First Church in

Nashville. And I heard the news that you'd

got elected to youth secretary. And again, full transparency and

forgive me in the past, but I was like, this is terrible.

This is so terrible. Seth's going to be that guy that

I absolutely can't stand. He's going to be a career

preacher, politician person, right?

And I was like, this is just terrible news, blah, blah, blah.

And all of this. We get back in church and I see

kind of the changes that you'd made still felt that way a

little bit. Like when we first come back to

church, I'm like, I mean, come on.

You know, I want to ask you about.

We see it so much. And and my dad, I give him

credit for this because back story on him, I don't know if he

covered this. He was in a position in Oklahoma

where it made no sense logically for him to leave because he

really could have just had it, had it made set up there.

And who knows where if he's continuing on at viewing the

church as a career path where that could have taken him.

And I liken that to your story here.

There's really no reason where you're at.

Alabama's cost of living, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like it's

a lot cheaper than Massachusetts.

You tell me a lot's a word. That could be used.

OK, yeah. And so that's not.

The question Walk me through what?

What's God talking to you? About because to me you've

always been such a logical person like way better than me

I'm way too ADHD on it and you were one that you've got it all

planned out. I'm doing this you said what you

were doing in school and then you did it.

I had like 20-9 different majors and didn't graduate with any of

them. You said this, I'm going to do

this. I've planned it out.

And then I feel like God asked you to do something that

logically doesn't make sense. Talk to me about that.

Sure. Yeah.

It's it's a great question. So yeah, I, I, I would consider

myself fairly logical and more of a planner than I ever thought

I was going to be. Left to my own devices, I'm a

whole lot more charismatic and free willing.

If my wife listens to this, she will chuckle because even today

I was like, hey, what are we doing tomorrow?

I need to know. I need to know.

Where my time's going? But yeah, I, I, I agree a lot of

my life has been fairly planned and executed to plan what Kobe

was alluding to. There is when I first got into

college, I, I had the plan. I was like, I'm going to major

in finance. I'm going to get a promotion at

the bank that I was working at at the time and I'm going to be

the manager of that bank and that's going to be the career

path. And that exact thing happened.

And then I realized I didn't want to be in banking.

So a, a couple of really hard lessons about no matter how hard

I plan, sometimes I don't know what's best is, is part of how

that tailors. But you, you know, in the, in

the kind of season before we moved to Massachusetts, there

was about a year and a half to two years where we were really

involved in ministry. We were serving as as youth

pastor here locally and then as you secretary for the Alabama

district. And we're loving every aspect of

that. We were tremendously honored to

be in that position. It was not something that I ever

thought I would advocate for, but I enjoyed it.

The work was fun, the team was great, and, and we really did

see God do some awesome things in the lives of young people

both locally and at the district level.

And for all intents and purposes, the logic says do that

until you're 36 and then watch what God, you know, wants to do

in your life. And that would be great.

And I honestly could have done that because I really enjoyed

youth ministry and, and even visiting this weekend, seeing

some of these young people that we were their youth leaders that

are now hyphen and, and some of them are getting married and

things that, you know, crazy. It makes you feel old.

But you know, seeing that, it's just like, that's awesome to

see. It's, you know, I still have a

burden for that to some extent. But you know, for about a year

and a half, God began to kind of make me rather uncomfortable

with the status quo of ministry and started to kind of make me

wonder what what wouldn't I do if he asked me to?

And I kind of threw a series of some incredible messages and

services and prayer time, kind of came to the conclusion that,

you know what, I don't know God, if there's anything that if you

asked me to do it, that I would say no.

And I chuckle at that now because then he's like, OK, how

about this? And we were in a North American

Youth Congress service in 2023. And as audible as I have ever

heard the voice of the Lord speak to me, He said.

I need you to move to the Boston, MA metro area and plan a

church. And I'm like I.

Don't know what that means. My pastor.

Is a. Church planner.

If it has to go that way, that's going to be exceptionally

difficult. What are you talking about?

Have you lost your mind? And it's as if all these other

life lessons that have happened about how God knew everything

and has planned everything out way more effectively than I ever

could. It's like that all went out the

window. But I, I was like, you know, I

was very moved in the moment and highly motivated and I, I wanted

to, to bounce it off of some, some very critical thinking

people and some spiritual mentors that I trusted.

So that obviously was Pastor Penton.

And then my dad and I had called dad and I said, Hey, I felt

something in service. I wanted to share it with you so

that you can be praying about it with me.

And I got to be honest, most life decisions I make anymore, I

do that with dad because I don't want to leave it to my own

devices to have the arrogance to say I've heard from God and this

is exactly what it is without having any spiritual counsel

that could tell me no. And obviously pastor serves in

that role as well. So I, I told dad to be thinking

and praying about it. And I think dad, you can correct

me if I'm wrong, but your first response was, have you talked to

pastor about this yet? And I said, I haven't, but I've,

I've got some time scheduled next week to do so.

And Amber and I met with, with brother and sister Penton and

said, you know, hey, I know this sounds crazy, but we feel called

to, to Boston, MA to go and plant a church.

And for those who know, brother Penton is extremely logical and

is extremely analytical. And it almost like most of the

time, it's like you can't really surprise him because he almost

expects everything that you would that you would throw at

him. And he almost kind of met it

with like a oh, OK, that makes sense.

And like I, I. Didn't like.

In all my years of, of, of him being my pastor, I didn't really

know how to respond to that. He then followed it up with

like, OK, let's be strategic. Let's pray about it.

Let's make sure we make some steps toward what this is.

And, and really feel after what God wants you to do 'cause, you

know, he was cautioning against like this kind of concept of

just like a spiritual high about something and, or conflating a

burden for an area with a calling to an area because there

is a difference. And, and you know, he was like,

we'll be praying with you. We'll see what opens.

And he also gave me some logical steps to touch base with some

people in the area and encouraged us to take a trip up

there. So after that conversation, I

called dad and I'm like, hey, you know, this is, this is what

he said. And, and dad was like, OK, and,

and dad shared some other stuff with me about kind of what he

had felt in prayer. And, you know, so we, we kind of

get more specific and strategic about, OK, how is this even

going to happen? Because as you alluded to, I'm

as I'm a youth leader locally enjoying that God is good.

We're making an impact and then feeling that I, I feel like we

had a lot of local responsibility that I didn't

want to just like cut ties and say, all right, see you guys

later. I'm out because obviously, well,

obviously this was, this was our home church, right?

We love the people here, still do.

And, and I was also in a district role at the time where

I had some very specific responsibilities that would have

been kind of messed up. So as the as the kind of

timeline goes on, I get some guidance from Pastor Penton that

it would be OK to not let my name run for re election for

youth secretary. And locally there was some other

people that were casually made aware of the possibility to to

help us pray about it. You know, folks like yourself,

folks like Cam and just gradually stuff started to

progress. And what I've, what I've come to

realize in the last two years is that God is.

So in control of. Everything and nothing ever

catches him by surprise that he'll just blow your mind

sometimes with exactly how something will work out.

So youth camp was the last week of June and this is in 2024.

And I had talked to Pastor Penton a couple weeks before

that and he said, you know, hey, what are you feeling on when you

think you should list your house if you're actually thinking

you're going to end up moving? And I said, well, I think maybe

we should lift it listed in July.

He said, you should list it in July.

And I said, OK. And he and he said, Seth, I

don't want to put any pressure on you, but I felt in prayer.

And I told my wife the other day that you'll be on the ground in

the Boston metro by September. And I was like, OK, it's, it's

kind of getting real at this moment, right?

So we get back from youth camp. We list our house on July 1st

and we had like 8 viewings that week.

We have an offer by July 3rd. We count our offer on July 4th

and they sign what we asked them for on July 5th and we luckily

got the closing extended to August 30th because I had no

idea where I was moving. We still had to figure that part

out right? So you start doing the math,

this house sells and you know we close on August 30th.

I I make the long drive. The Cam was awesome to go with

me and give me somebody that would keep me awake.

As our stuff was moving and I put my wife and son on an

airplane because I didn't want to be that cruel iron fisted

father that said, no, you're going to cry the whole way to

Massachusetts. But and and, and lo and behold,

as as Pastor Vince said, he said, I think you'll be on the

ground by September. We moved to Labor Day weekend.

You know that that weekend we were, we were in our apartment.

It was like August 31st is when I was able to drop the first set

of stuff off. Now, granted, we stayed in a

hotel the first two days while we're waiting on the movers to

get there, but just just unbelievable how God open open

that door in terms of just his total provision to the cause of

how we ended up there. But I think dad had something to

add. So yeah.

So I just want to. It it's, it's crazy how things

happen. I mean, we've heard pastor pens

stories about how they had no idea, you know, where they were

going to be, where the church was going to be, where they were

going to live. Your dad didn't have a job when

he first came here, you know, and, you know, and, and where

he's ended up now. And there's a couple things I

want to say. One thing I want to say before I

before I forget and before we end this podcast, the impact and

the. Timing.

For your dad, for this church, for this church family, for your

family, for all of y'all. God just works everything out in

a perfect timing. You know, when Vicki and I first

started talking, you know, it was around the same time she

started thinking about visiting and, and so when we knew we were

getting married, we were starting to decide, all right,

we going to church in Athens, we going to church in Madison and,

and I prayed and I fasted about it and I met with your dad and I

met with Bishop Craft and, and we talked, talked it through.

But I knew that Vicki being knew she needed your dad and your mom

and she needed their personality, their mentality.

Pastors always said it, and he's never deviated from it.

He deals with people where they are and helps them along their

way, and that's what he's always done.

So I want to, before I forget, I wanted to make sure and give

credit to Pastor Penton, who didn't know a whole lot about

me, didn't have a lot of people he could call that he knew to

see what kind of man I was. He was tough on me when we met

with him and started talking about marriage because he was

protecting my wife. This was his St. this was his

new convert and he was going to protect her.

And, and I, and I love him for that because he was looking out

for her and he wasn't really worried about me.

He was looking out for her at the time.

And, and that's great, but just the way that, the way that

Pastor Penton, sister Penton, your whole family, the way that

we were welcomed in and then entrusted, the way that he

trusted me. Pastor's not going to let

anybody behind his pulpit. And you know, he's, he's

particular about who preaches in this church.

And he, he, he allowed, he's allowed me that privilege many

times. And so I wanted to make sure

mention that. But back to what Seth was

talking about with the way God works everything out, when we

were in Carthage, TN, we went to Greenville, Tennessee to visit

because my sister and my brother-in-law had gotten back

in church about a year before I did.

My sister wrote me this big long letter and I wouldn't even open

it because I knew what it was going to be about.

And so anyway. We went up to visit.

After we got back in church and man, on the way while I was in

that service, I was like, I'm supposed to be here.

I was supposed to be helping with this church because it was

it was similar to what we had. I mean, it was we had like 30

people. They had like 30 people going to

church there. And so on the way back from East

Tennessee to Middle Tennessee, you know, about a 2 1/2 three

hour drive us. I told Donna I was like, you

know, I, I feel like God wants us to be in that church.

And she says, you've lost your minds.

I'm not I'm not moving to the mountains.

You know, I like it right here in the hills of Middle

Tennessee. And I'm like, OK.

And so I was like, all right, God, maybe I missed that.

You know, I'm still learning how to hear God, You know what I

mean? And so it's like God just told

me to pray about it. So I prayed about it.

And one day I got home from work and Donna said, hey, I want to

tell you about a dream I had. I said, OK, She said I had a

dream that we were in Greenville, Tennessee, and that

I was helping Sister Livingston decorate for a baby shower.

I said, OK, she said, you don't think that means something?

I said, well, what do you think it means?

She said I think we're supposed to be up there.

I said cool. So I started looking for a job.

You know, I'm a truck driver. I'm a young man, perfect driving

record. Trucking industry's popping.

They're looking for drivers everywhere.

I can't find a job. I interviewed.

With all kind of. People, I had all kind of

opportunities, but they were over the road.

I knew I wasn't supposed to move up there and then be gone all

the time. So I'm still hauling US mail

from Nashville to Indianapolis. And while I'm in Indianapolis

one day I'm I see a truck that I've never seen before company.

And I hollered at him on the CB radio.

I was like hey man, where are you based out of?

And he said Milford, Virginia. I said y'all got any runs that

break up up around Bulls Gap, Greenville, Tennessee.

And he said man, my boss was just talking about a run there

yesterday. I was like really?

I said, you know, can I have your boss's number?

So he gave me the number. I called the boss man.

He said he said we're bidding on that today.

And he said he said let me have your contact information.

He said I'll call you and let you know.

I said OK, you know, I told him all about my experience and

stuff. So he calls me the next day.

He said, hey, we got that bid. You ready to go to work?

I said absolutely. And my company knew that I was

going to be moving the company I was working for at the time.

So they didn't need a notice. They already had a notice.

I gave him like a three month notice.

And so I said yes, Sir, I'm ready to go to work.

I said when you need me there. He said I need you there Monday.

This was on a Saturday. I said like day after tomorrow.

He said yeah, I need you there. I need you going to I need you

to run the Nashville end of it and I'll have you meet this guy,

This guy. So I pack up and and I live with

my sister for six weeks while I'm trying to find us a place to

live. And Donna is there with Seth and

newborn Michaela. Michaela was six weeks old.

And so, you know, for I joke about it when we, when they,

when I finally got them moved up there, Michaela wouldn't have

anything to do with me. And right before that, I was the

only one that could get her to sleep.

But I mean, I, I joked that she was mad at me.

You know, she was mad at me for that, for that first like 3

months that we lived in Greenville, Tennessee.

But that's just a testament to how God works everything out in

his timing. And what Seth alluded to is Seth

had been asking me or had asked me some time back to pray

because he felt. Like God was.

Working something, didn't know what it was, didn't know if he

was supposed to go on the evangelistic field if he didn't

know God was going to call him. The pastor didn't know what it

was going to what it was going to be, but he knew change was

coming. And I don't know if y'all have

ever felt that, but you will likely one day feel that.

And don't be afraid of it. It's just, it's just God

preparing you for, for change. And it doesn't mean you're going

to move. It just means, you know, the,

the, the course you're on may change a little bit.

Maybe the ministry you're doing may change a little bit or you

move into a different area. But so anyway, I've been praying

about it. And I told Seth this after he

talked to pastor cause Seth, Seth text me that night.

He said, I think I got some direction from the Lord.

And I said OK, And I said, what's that direction Course?

You know, Seth hates when I do this and and I don't always do

it on purpose, but sometimes I do.

I just give like little short answers and make him make him

dig it out of me. The thumbs up emote is what he's

referring to. And and he said I think I'm

supposed to start a church And and I said OK, any idea where?

And there's a little bit of a. Pause and he texts me but I

don't y'all texts was so y'all know there's never a pause

responsiveness. Is next to godliness, yeah, And

so is. Multiple texts, multiple times

in a row. But anyway, so there was a

little bit of a pause and and he said Boston, MA.

I said, OK, have you talked to pastor?

He said, no. I said holler at me when you

have. And so when he did, I told him

that maybe six weeks before that I'm, I'm guessing on the

timeline I was on the I was on the front porch sipping my

coffee on a Saturday morning. I usually get out there for

about 1/2 hour before Vicki gets out there when the weather's

nice. And then Vicki comes out and

joins me. So I've been praying and Vicki

came out with her cup of coffee and I said, don't be surprised

if our boy tells us he's going to be moving to Boston to start

a church. And she said what?

I said I don't know, maybe I maybe I'm tripping, but that's

that's why you started her day off.

With that, yeah, I said, I said that's.

What I that's what I felt this morning.

So when Seth, when Seth told me that that he'd already talked to

pastor I, I shared with him that that I, I already kind of knew.

I just needed him to confirm it so well and and on.

The topic of just how God provides we were, we were

wondering where we were going to live and we were kind of

exploring different apartment complexes and, and in complete

transparency, we knew where we were hoping to be.

I wanted to be around Boston. At the time, I still didn't have

clear definitive direction on exactly where God wants the

church. It's a very under churched area

and you know, what doors are going to open, etcetera.

And we were just like, I want to live somewhere close enough to

the city so that if I get up there and get a job in the city,

I'm not so far out that that's just a tax, right.

And there in in Revere, which is about 6 miles or so north of the

city, there was a multifamily unit for sale and in complete

for rent. And in complete transparency,

Alabama boy multifamily unit didn't jive.

I didn't know what that was about because like, if I'm going

to be in the office and this, you know, family has access to

my wife and kids, I wasn't all about that.

And that was kind of scary and you know, but we did kind of a

virtual interview with the guy who's my landlord and it just

once again, God just having everything literally in the palm

of his hand. He said, we're, we're

interviewing, he shows us the apartment on like FaceTime and

we're like, OK, this, this could work.

It's, it's enough space that we can make it work.

And the, the locations great. Both to the church that we would

be going to and to to the city in the event I got a job in the

city, which I did at a later date.

But we're like, OK, you know, well, tell us about yourself.

And I and I kind of inherently I kind of grilled the guy because

like, you know, this is a person that if I'm going to choose to

live here, I'm effectively going to be in his house.

I don't need you being some kind of weirdo that's going to be in

the stuff that is exposing my kids to things that, you know,

is damaging. And he kind of told me a little

story, you know, his back story about what he does for work and

who he is and and we were talking and he said, do you have

a family? I said, I do.

It's my wife and my son. He said, how old's your son?

And Maverick was two at the time.

And he said, he said, I don't want you to be freaked out, but

my. Wife and I have.

Prayed for a family with a little boy to eventually have

this unit. And I said, what do you mean?

He said, we have a little boy and the family that was here

before their job took them to a different location and they had

a little boy and that was my son's best friend.

And, and he said, he said, you are Christian, I assume.

I said, I'm actually moving there, Lord willing to

eventually plant a church. And he said we've prayed for

you. And I was like.

All right, send the lease paperwork over.

No, I'm kidding. I, you know, then, you know, we

start talking about what rent is and he, he knocks a little bit

off of it because of what we were doing and, and made it a

little bit more feasible. And it's just, it's just been a

a tremendous blessing. But that that piece of being

exactly where God wants you to be is, is something that's

incredible. When we were still wondering how

we were going to move there, the last kind of last ditch

confirmation that it was right. Pastor Penton had encouraged

Amber and I to take a trip to Boston to just do a site visit,

maybe walk around the city and pray a little bit.

Make sure that this is right before you start making some

real critical steps on the home front of, of preparing for that.

And, and he said, and go to church somewhere up there where

you think you'll go to church and connect with the pastor.

And, and I did and, and, and when we were getting on the

plane to come home, I looked at Amber and I said, it doesn't

feel like we're going home. It feels like I'm going on

vacation away from where I'm supposed to be.

And she said, I feel the same way.

And that was a difficult plane ride home because I knew that

for the next 8 months, even though I was going to a place

where my loving church family and loving family were, it's not

where God wanted me, but in his time we would end up being

there, which we have, obviously. So yeah, God's just mind

blowingly in control of everything.

It's kind of incredible. Yeah.

And and I want. To touch on the I think some of

us, we, we struggle with pride naturally as humans and maybe

the people in this room, yeah, except for Mac, but no, we I

think we all we can relate to that on struggling with pride

and the the whole story from each of you in this and then

even pastor, it'd be really easy.

You were a very vital piece of the clog here.

And I think it's important for anybody in the ministry being

able to put the side, the put aside pride and selfishness,

because it would be really easy when you're in a position of

authority or leadership to sway somebody and be like, no, Seth,

I don't know, actually, if that's right, you know, I'm

going to think about it. And I think it's so important

not just that he put his pride aside, but for you, it's, it's a

huge leap of faith. And then you keep talking about

that. I think it's, it's so huge that

first step, you know, and when you were talking about, oh,

moving to Carolina and then it's like, we have no idea how this

is going to work out. You're talking about Boston.

Taking that faith says a lot about the character.

And then for you raising your boys, stuff that you can instill

in them as well. And I think the whole story