Episode #12 - The OGs

Welcome, welcome, welcome. We're back with another episode

of the podcast. I apologize.

I have slacked and getting these out consistently.

I was out three, two weeks ago with A Bristers 1 and I feel

like I have not done one of these in forever.

So I might talk way too much, but we're doing this one a

little bit different. We're not going to have any

super special guests just because we want to talk about

ourselves and hopes of getting our own perspective and just

having the Ogs kind of sit down and and talk about everything

and maybe get into some deep stuff.

I don't know. We'll see how we go, but I'll go

ahead and spin it around everybody else here, let

everybody introduce themselves and then we'll kind of get

going. Cameron here present.

I'm I'm Kobe Penton, his elder brother, the more mature one.

The more mature one, that's OK. All right, so first thing I

wanted to ask you guys. I know what my perspective was

when I first started coming to Life Gate, but I never really

got to listen to y'all's perspective.

Both just being the kids during the whole move and then

obviously whenever the first few families started coming along

and how that feels. Because you know, you probably

had some friends and family in Oklahoma before you moved to

Madison, but when y'all moved here you had nobody.

So I mean, you're like isolated and then you've watched this all

grow and Lifegate to you, I mean, we all say Lifegate's a

family, but to you guys it is much more because you've grown

as a family with that. So whichever one of y'all wants

to take off first, if you can remember just how it was before

you guys came to Madison, what you were thinking and you know,

you'll both talk. So there's no need to fight over

who goes first. No, I mean start off, I go back

to that early 2000s, you know, I was younger, younger than Colby

and I remember the transition period.

I can't really remember exactly whenever it was like, oh, we're

moving to Alabama specifically was the goal.

I do remember along the way, like basically that transition

period where we were staying, we kind of moved away from from

being in Oklahoma and we moved to stay in with our grandparents

mostly for a period of time while we knew they were going to

Alabama and things to get to get set up in some capacity, like

to, to start a church. Like I don't really remember

having like that that moment where I was like, oh, guys,

we're going to Alabama. Well, like, like we didn't like,

I don't remember a conversation where we sat down and they're

like, hey, guys, we're moving to Alabama.

Maybe Kobe does. But I do remember just kind of

like in my various memories about like when, when we were

when we were at the grandparents house during that time where I

was like, Oh yeah, we're we're going to Alabama.

So I have that kind of memory and like I said, just we we kind

of stayed during that portion. And I don't really think for me,

you know, Kobe can speak a little bit about his experience,

but like I didn't really have any kind of anxieties about that

necessarily. But I was very young.

So I was more like going with the flow for.

The most part. Would you have been 6 at that

time? I think yeah, 5 or 6.

I think I was 8. So you might have a, it would.

Have been five and a half 2000 3.

Yeah, 04/04 ish 2. 1003, 2004 ish.

When you guys moved down here, you were born in 9797, but it

was later it was like mid 97, yeah, June.

So you're it's a half year there.

So yeah, about 5 1/2 is when you were there.

Yeah. And so like, like I said, that

was like formative years, but not necessarily like, you know,

I, I wasn't exactly, you know, completely aware of the concept.

Kobe might have a little bit more.

Yeah, I do remember we had a bunch of conversations actually,

about different areas they were looking at, and they were

praying about everything. I It may have been different for

Cameron, too, because when we left, I think he'd only done

maybe preschool in Oklahoma. I don't even know if he went to

kindergarten. Yeah.

It was just preschool. I went to 1st grade and then we

were moving at a weird point where like it was middle of 2nd

grade for me, I think. And so mom had taken us out of

public school and she was homeschooling us, getting

prepared for us moving, you know, being out of the school

district and all that. That probably helped a little

bit. Go ahead.

And not being yanked away from friends or whatnot, kind of

having that period of a distance in yourself, I guess.

And so we were still close with people in the church.

But I do remember, I want to say it was North Carolina was an

area that they had prayed about. There was an area in North

Carolina they prayed about. They mentioned to us, they'd

mentioned some other state, I don't recall.

I'm sure there's a lot of states out there that needed churches

and was on their mind and had reached out.

But then I, I know the biggest point of it was there was an

established church in Oklahoma that we went to evangelize that

dad did. He went to preach and they the

biggest catalyst that would have kept us from coming here was

that church. They really wanted dad to come

and be the pastor, and that was a larger congregation like.

They want him to be the pastor or the youth pastor.

No, the pastor, yeah, take over as a pastor in the church in

Oklahoma. I don't remember the town

entirely, but I remember from my perspective.

I'm not, you know, diving too into details just as my 8 year

old perspective of it. I remember we went to visit

really big church. It was like 300 people or

whatnot. And I remember it basically

being the coming down to, hey, they wanted us doing this.

We're going to really pray about it and all and then or we're

going to start a home missions church.

And so that was kind of floated up in the air.

And I mean, I remember as an 8 year old, I'm like, Dang, we

already live in Oklahoma. That would be really cool.

You know, we're there and then the church is really big.

So you get an opportunity for a lot of friends.

So I was kind of leaning that way in my mind.

I'm like, yeah, I mean, if I was talking to God, he's probably

going to send us there, you know?

And then that didn't happen. Went straight to Alabama with

nobody except for Cam Guy. Let however old do you.

Remember the moving process, like moving from Oklahoma, Like

I'm talking like the actual process of like, OK, where are

we going to live? We're supposed to start a

church. I mean, because you guys went to

Athens for a while while you were still starting Madison.

So I said the first part was we, like I said, we stayed with the

grandparents for a few months. So it wasn't a straight Oklahoma

to Alabama move. OK.

We moved to stay with them for a little bit.

Yeah, I don't remember if we went to.

I know we visited in Mississippi, but the longest

stint I remember we went to Louisiana and stayed with our

grandparents down there. Yeah, for a long stint.

And mom and dad, they would travel different weekends and

all. We would stay in Louisiana

generally unless it was someplace fairly close.

So they established in themselves here before they

brought you here. I.

Think so mostly mom was mom was more with us because we were

still doing school and stuff. I mean that's I remember

learning to read in that period between Oklahoma to Alabama did.

You ever did you ever actually finish learning how to read or?

Still working on it, hopefully we'll see.

Anyways, go ahead. But no, so like, I do remember

that period is more has has more concrete memories for me.

And yeah, we stayed there for a little while and then it was

like, OK, I knew like Dad was looking for a job was a big

deal. Like we knew like he was over

here trying to get something, like you said, something

established for us. And eventually it was like, Oh,

well, he's got a job now so we can we can move that way.

We didn't know at the time, but that was kind of not exactly a

job he was looking forward. He wasn't the work at Lowe's.

Yeah, working at Lowe's. Yeah, and and props Lowe's.

Lowe's is a great corporation and everything but the salary he

was given with three kids. We were living in a 2 bedroom

apartment in Decatur when we moved and then it did help too.

We went to Athens first church. Shout out to them.

We went there for a little while before we ever started having

services in Madison. They they started up Bible

studies with people in Madison area and we're doing that during

the weeks and the weekends. So, and then at First Church, it

did help though 'cause it kind of gave us a basis of, OK, these

are Alabama people, you know, going to a different Pentecostal

church. But there's friendships we have

to this day that. We met my wife at that church,

that is true. And then Colby.

Colby learned a drum from my father-in-law at that church.

That is very true also. Yeah, Cameron, but.

Yeah, there's also that culture shock, I'm sure.

So when we moved here from Saint Louis to Alabama, it was such a

different vibe with the way people acted, how they talked to

you like. Whatever Roll Tide meant.

Yeah, dude, Like, you remember when I first started and you're

like, hey, this is college football.

And I was like what is this? Well, we come from from Oklahoma

and Oklahoma is like, I mean, even though it's a southern

state, they don't really have as much of a twang in the accent.

It's more flat, more of that Midwestern kind of accent, which

is very flat. And so the first, I think one of

the first services we got there, I remember Kobe and I get in

trouble because and we were just laughing because they were

talking and we just couldn't understand them.

So we were just laughing and they enough my kids slapping us

with. With their Alabama birth

certificates, they sound country is boring.

But I still, I still get in trouble at home all the time

with Brooke because she's got such a Southern country accent

and I'll get her all the time. And then I got her just

recently. She's going to kill me for

saying this, but I just got her recently because she said

something that like, I'd never heard before as far as like an

analogy. She was talking to somebody and

she was like, well, you're not exactly the brightest lightning

bug out there in the field, are you?

And I was like, what? I've never heard that.

Before, but it makes perfect sense.

But it makes perfect sense. That is such an Alabama thing to

say. Yeah, it's great.

It is funny. It's funny out.

I remember, you know how like sometimes growing up you have

moments, embarrassing moments that like are core memories for

you. You know, like Inside Out the

movie where it's one of those core memories.

Oh, yeah, I remember these people making fun of us for our

accent because it was so, you know, Oklahoma flat, no accent,

Midwestern and everything. And they were like, where are

you from? And I remember them saying where

are you from? And I was like, I was born in

Louisiana. And they were like, you don't

sound like you're from Louisiana.

Like, I mean, yeah, I know it it was it was a trying time,

though. You have to adapt to the culture

and everything. But I think our parents shout

out to them. They did such a good job and in

stealing such a, a confidence, I guess, and then a comfort.

You know, we had a home base even in Decatur.

They made the best of every situation.

And looking at it as an adult now, because dad wasn't much

older than I am right now with three kids.

Yeah, I just, it was a trial getting in there.

I remember they really did make the best of it.

They made a cowboy Stew, if you remember that, which was just a

Little Mix of everything thrown in a crock pot with a little bit

of meat. And we thought that was the best

thing in the world. Maybe we're like, this is

amazing. Yeah.

Do you remember the first? Do you remember the the services

at the hotel when y'all first had your I?

Remember the first service? What was your perspective on

that? I've seen I've seen like one or

two pictures and the little meeting room, but.

I'd say the build up to it more so like when we, you know, when

we're here at Athens, like the one thing the parents, you know,

they always did was like ensure like, hey, we're here for a

purpose, you know what I mean? Like that was one thing was

like, it was like, you know, like we want to meet people.

But even at that age, they wanted to make sure we knew

like, hey, we're not here just to go to a different church, you

know what I mean? We're here to do something.

So like I would say like, even though we were going to those

churches, we always knew, hey, something like, you know, and we

didn't really have any, like Kobe said then still in

confidence, like just that confidence from them.

That was like the idea of the of Lifegate, like the what would

become Lifegate Church failing was like that wasn't in our

vocabulary. You know what I mean?

Like that wasn't even an idea in our brains, at least from my

perspective. No, definitely.

I'm the same way. It was.

It wasn't a matter of if it was just a wind thing.

Yeah, it was like, oh hey, there's a lot of hard work ahead

of us and the first service, yeah, build up, a lot of build

up to it. I think the issue with kids some

and maybe Cameron can can feel the same way.

Maybe he feels completely different.

I don't know. But I think with a kid at 8 or 9

at that time, I think I was about 9.

You long for stability a whole lot, you know.

And so in those first days you latch on to stuff quick.

Like we were at the hotel that one time and then I don't even

know did we have we had multiple services at the hotel.

I've been told that we have that multiple services.

I only have memory of the one. So me too, we had that first

one. And I do remember, I think we

had multiple. I just can't really remember it

all. And then after that, mom got in

contact with Kate at the children's theater and that

again, was moving to, OK, we've got a little bit more stability,

I guess. And so we latched onto that.

That was kind of the home base. Yeah, I'd say for that first

service, like the big thing was like, we were like, OK, hey,

we're we're launching this thing.

This is our launch service and it's pretty cool.

We have a lot of people that were from Oklahoma.

They came to visit a lot of family, you know, and as a kid

you're like, oh man, this is great.

Look at look at our. Look at our church.

And we did have a visitor, yeah, I forget her name, man.

She was a lady. Mom knew that ended up getting

the contacts from. She was her husband was like in

real estate or something. I remember that.

We went over to their house, played with their kids one time,

but she was there at that first service and so at we were like,

hey, one service 1 visitor. This is going to be a quick

word. How little did you know?

Yeah, and then from from my young perspective, everybody was

their worship and you have a great service and it was like,

Oh yeah, this is awesome. And I was just like hey guys,

why don't y'all just stay? Straight up, yeah.

But, you know, that's, you know, kids don't get all the

ramifications of that from people, unfortunately.

Yeah. So we moved to moved to the

moved to the theater and then it's just you guys for a while

there, maybe one or two people come along.

What's like, I know when you guys are praying at that point

you're praying like, oh man, are are you praying?

Just bring people? Are you bringing?

Are you praying like, hey, bring people that are going to have

kids that like, we're not going to be the only two?

I think probably at first we were praying for kids and then

at some point, man, we were praying for people.

Just anybody. Anybody come through?

That door, yeah. And then the was the first we

had. We had, I cannot remember her

name, but an elderly lady that was coming at the first service

or not the first early portion is coming from the nursing home

we had that started coming. She actually died about a year

after she started coming. But Dad, he can remember, he can

remember her name. He will, he will.

And I remember. I could take you to where she

lived too, right off of Hughes Rd.

Hughes Rd. Walter, Anna, I don't remember,

I think it's Hughes Rd. But anyways, if I pass the

house, I'll tell you what it was.

But he would go, and I think he has that recorded in his

podcast. We did, yeah.

You mentioned, you mentioned. Guy.

Yeah, somebody brought her up and he went over there to the

nursing home and started just kind of conversing with her and.

Yeah, which was good and so, but she wasn't able to attend

services too much, I don't think at all like she was.

She was at a rough spot. But he still went and visited

her and all and fulfilled, you know, like Pastor Lee duties, I

guess. And it was good they went to to

chat with her and talk about God, knowing that was cool being

a part of and seeing a lot of that.

But yeah, at some point you're just praying anybody would like

come through the doors. And I think the, and this is no

knock on anyone. If I was visiting a church and

it was 5 people and it's just me with the five people, I'm not

staying at that church. I'm going to be real with you.

So this is no judgement on anyone.

But it's like we'd have a a few people.

I remember there were like little waves where like, oh,

we'd get a group of like 5 and then like they would be there

maybe 3 weeks. And then eventually it was like,

hey, there's only ten of us, we're moving on.

And it, it felt like we went through three of those where we

had little groups that came in, lasted a couple weeks Max and

then moved on. And that that was kind of for me

at least maybe Cameron's perspective is different.

It was a little, it was a little harder because you're like,

Dang, man, like you're just trying to get people everybody.

Yeah, you know, and you get. Excited because you think one by

one person's going to stick and then they disappear.

I will say the one thing that kind of made it different is

when we were going, when we started the children, like when

we started going to the children's theater for the using

it. The one thing that did help out

as far as that goes is we were, we were, we were using the

facilities, but we were also active daily participants at the

stuff going on at the children's theater.

So that kind of helped with like a sense of community because at

that time, especially the first year or two, we were out there

like, and, and we all had, I mean, at least from my

perspective, like it, it was kind of like that missional

mindset, which you can only attribute to my, to my parents,

you know what I mean? That was like, Hey, you're there

and you try to make an impact on the people around you.

Was always like, was always like from a young age was like, Hey,

this is an opportunity when you go out there to make an impact

and you can do something to grow our church.

So that was that made a big like, you know, mindset as far

as like as a kid was like, Hey, when we go to these children's

theatre, these are people who are, these are future members of

our church that we're going along with now.

I don't know that anybody at that, at that children's theatre

actually did become future members.

But just that mindset that they instilled at a young age is

like, man, they it's inspirational, you know what I

mean? That they would, their faith was

that strong. That they could keep their kids

faith that strong, you know? And I, I can't imagine from

their perspective too, but like from ours, it, it, they did a

great job about instilling that. And then even just the Kingdom

mindset, like it being about God, like you're here, you're

here for God. It's, it's not even our church.

It's his church. It's the Kingdom.

And so I remember conversations I had when people would leave,

and I know some people went to another Apostolic Church in the

area that was just a little bit more established.

And they weren't negative about that at all.

They were happy, you know, that a Bible study had turned into

them coming, even if for just a couple weeks.

And then they got established in another church that maybe could

be their home church. That helped me a whole lot as

far as a Kingdom mindset, you know that like, you know what?

They're not coming to our church in the children's theater as

much as we want any living person just to hear with us.

But they are going to church. They're out there being a part

of the Kingdom of God. Getting brother Penny and sister

Harville was, was like the first like sign of life though.

We're like, we were just super excited, especially like Sister

Harville, like just like fatefully coming to every

service like. As much as she could.

Awesome to, like, huge impact. Yeah.

Like, even like, she was a very quiet, reserved person.

But like her, she was, she attended this church for what,

20, 20 years, probably straight before she moved away to Florida

with her family. But yeah, like just this

consistently. Like like I said, she was soft

spoken elderly lady, but she was as consistent as you could

possibly hope for. And even just as a kid, we were

just like, you know, our, our our grandparents, our family

weren't there. So like we just got super

excited to see * arable and meet the one other person in the

chair. She had that.

Little like Chevy Cavalier and then I remember we would wait

out and So what? Me and Cameron, we were the

greetings squad of the day and we would be at the door, man,

like just you're sitting at the door waiting on go looking at

cars pass by like somebody put your blinker on and like the

worst would be if somebody did turn in, but they were just

turning around and you're like, oh God, so crushing.

But every Sunday that that little white cavalier pulled up

horrible got out. You're like, yes, thank God.

So I talked about it on one of ours, my perspective when we

first came, I don't know if you guys have, do you remember?

I'm just trying to go there. I remember.

So we had moved. We moved here from Saint Louis

and I had I had my family in Saint Louis.

I had friends from school. And the church that I remember

faintly that we were going to up there was called Solid Rock.

And it was a big church. Like I probably am over

exaggerating it because I was a toddler, but it was a massive

church. I mean, it was like, I, I think

it's still, the building itself is probably still there, but you

know, we come down here and there was no church.

But it was a struggle for me during the move to find any

friends because when we started, I started that, you know,

started going to the one school was only there for a little bit

and then moved to another new school.

And it was just one of those things where like, man, you're

the new kid. You don't know anybody.

You don't know the culture was still public schools.

So I just, you felt like, man, there's nothing.

So I think my mom kind of felt bad.

So that's why she was always looking for for it.

But yeah, I remember, I remember going to some of these churches,

I won't name them, but you know, they're named after solid

objects. But I remember as a toddler

going to the Sunday school and they dropped me off to the

Sunday school and mom and dad go to the sanctuary and I'm used to

having like Sunday school lesson.

And they've got like this wall of TV's and like Xboxes and like

Playstations. And they're like, oh, you can

just play like that's all we're doing.

This is Sunday school. That'll get him.

And I'm like, I'm confused because I'm like, this is this

is church like you're supposed to like learn about.

Learn a little. Bit, yeah.

And then we never went back to that one.

But anyways, I remember coming home from school on a Thursday

and mom being like, hey, we're going to go to church.

I want you to go with me. And I'm like, OK, well, where

are we going this time? I really don't want to go.

I just got this new toy And she was like, well, this church had

it's a, it's a small church, but they've got two young boys that

are about your age and I think you'll get along with them

really well. I think you'll, I think you'll

get along with them. You can take that toy was a

little basketball hoop thing. So you can take the toy with you

and then maybe they'll play with you, who knows?

And and we'll just, we'll just see how it goes.

And I'm just kind of like 6-7 years old.

You're not really going to have a choice in the matter.

But I was like, you know, if I can take my toy, if it's boring,

at least I can play with this. She.

Started off with this is like there's like one family, but I

remember walking in and the way that the theater was, there was

like a little tiny room in the front and then you would like

veer left, like you had to go around left.

And that was the the four year, which was just like the size of

this little podcast area. I remember and it was like a

maze. But anyways, I saw you guys

coming around and I'm like holding this big old thing and

it was like, Hey, I was like, I got this toy you let's play with

this. And then I remember we just

stopped in the foyer and from what I can remember, we just

played with that little hoop thing the whole time while the

parents were in there talking. But yeah, I remember that as

being the first time is ever going and I've never gotten

y'all's perspective of when I first started coming.

Yeah, was it? Wasn't it the little shooter?

Yeah, you put the orange basketball in the little

catapult and if you hit it, it went to the other person's side.

Yeah, and I remember you had to be the first one to clean out

your side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember

that. When you're playing by yourself,

it's not much competition. I yeah, I.

One again 1000 in a row. Yeah.

I mean, I do think you, if in Kobe, can correct me.

I do think you were the first kid our age that actually came

to the church. I do think so.

We'd had several adults passed pass through, but I do think you

were the first kid that came to the.

Yeah, I'm pretty positive. If we, I think we had somebody

visit someone that had a couple kids, but they were a little

older than us and I think that's the only other like under

eighteens that we had out of that.

So that that was huge man, like vital.

I mean, part of it was just like whenever, when you walk through

the door, it was just like, OK, we got to be best friends with

this dude right here. So they'll come back.

Exactly. Exactly.

You don't have the option of not liking this.

Guy. You were just like, man, we, we,

yeah, we, we, we got to, we got to make this a good experience.

Yeah, I think that's what's. Funny too, though, man, what I

think it's helped me in adult life.

Also. Nowadays it's so crazy because

like you get upset with somebody and our favorite cut catch

phrase now is like, oh, you got to go no contact or cut them

off. You know, when we were growing

up, you really didn't have that option.

Like, look, sometimes I'm going to be mad at Johnny and

sometimes I'm going to be mad at Seth, but these are my friends.

You got to figure it out, you know, and I love that I I don't

think we should be so quick to push people away because if you

ever spend a lot of time with people, you're going to have

disagreements no matter what. And I think that that helped, I

think mold both of us into our mentality now that like, yeah,

you have disagreements and sometimes people will get on

your nerves or whatever. And and but you work through

that regardless that that helped out well.

Especially from us because like it was like, I mean, we always

knew it was like, hey, we're here for the long run.

Like there's not like there's not really especially that's

that's one thing from coming from like the like the church

planners, kids perspective is like you're going to be here.

Yeah, and. This is a, this is, this is at

least for at least until like, you know, later in life, but

you're going to be here, especially coming from six or

seven years old, you know, you knew there's like you need to,

you need to be a part of the solution.

You know what I mean? Like, and that's, that's

ultimately like, like, like what we had to, we had to.

And they always, you know, they, they taught us how to like I

would say they, they taught us things to do, like as far as

being welcoming, But I would say the biggest thing is just

modelling their behaviour from us kind of modelled how they

treated people. And besides that, though, we

like, like Kobe said, though you really wanted it, it you really

wanted to build a community. So it was a matter of I want

people to want to be a part of this.

So like we yeah, you know, and it's not like it wasn't in, it's

not that we were being ingenuous or disingenuous, you know what I

mean? Like it wasn't like that.

Like we weren't faking as far as like that.

It just meant that you put forward ether like I'm not just

like going to like if I missed the opportunity for with Johnny

like they're like he may not be next week.

I may not get another opportunity and.

That's something like my wife. And once you have kids and a

wife and everything, it changes a little bit.

But on Sundays she'll be sometimes OK, I'm ready to go.

Like we, we still have a life and everything to do.

And now we've got a big enough church, you know, people are

talking. But like, we kind of grew up in

that mindset that, bro, every Sunday you're talking to

everybody, you know, you want them to at least be seen, you

know? And so I'm still that way.

I'll talk to everybody. Yeah.

I. Wish I was that way.

I will say I will say that you now that you bring it up and I

tell you know, me and dad talk about it all the time and then

I'll tell Brooke all the time. I'll say, you know, the

difference between me and you 2 guys is like you 2 guys are

willing to talk to literally anybody and we'll and you're and

you're good at doing it and I would I'll joke on myself all

the time. I said you'd think someone who

was a car salesman for five years would be an extrovert and

would be like willing to go up, but I'm like, I'm an introvert.

So it is very difficult for me. And, and like, it's one of those

things that I pray about at all times.

Like, God, I just, I'm terrible. I'm terrible.

If I talk to somebody and we get into conversation, I can get

along with anybody quick. Yeah.

It's just I, I, I lack what you guys have, which is that I want

to go talk to this person that I have absolutely no idea about

them and can be super friendly. I don't know how to do it like I

had, you had your scripts and everything when you're selling

towards like, oh, this is what I'm going to say.

And then you lead them from there.

But I mean, that's one thing that I have to commend you guys

because it's just like that. I mean, you could talk to

literally both of you could talk to anybody.

I'll give Cameron more props on that too.

I feel like it's natural for me. I am more that way.

I feel like Cameron's more introverted, that it's not as

natural for him and he kind of worked on it.

I think he really bought into that from the parents.

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely like for me that's a learned

trait. Like I at at my natural, at my

natural pace. And especially like whenever I

at the end of the day is a lot like I'm just like where I'm

like, I just need my like my, my quiet time, you know what I

mean? But.

It's when you got a double call them.

I knew that hit them with the old double call.

They're can't ignore me twice and people tell me I'm a

terrible texter, but there are times where I intentionally

leave my phone in the other room where I just like I, I just

don't. I like, I don't care what hits

right now. Like I'll be, I'll see it later,

you know? What it is I know about you,

It's like I I know if I text you it's a 5050 shot if I'm going to

get a reply. So it's like if it's something

that I need like if it's important like I got a call

yeah. Because I do feel like if I call

you and you're like oh he's calling me.

It's got to be important yes. Then I'll get a reply.

It's the same for both of y'all. I'm going to be straight.

I'm like, because even with Colby, it's like if I text

Colby, I'll get a reply like within 48 hours.

Yeah, that's like. ADHD.

But if I call him, he'll pick it up and be like, hey, what do you

need? Yeah.

So it's like you got to learn that bit there.

I'm definitely a caller over a texter.

I will look at a text, especially if I'm in the middle

of something. This is what gets me.

I'll look at the text and acknowledge it in my head, but

as soon as I put my phone down I'm back to what I did and I

forget that I ever got a text. Some notifications are gone.

Yeah, and like I said, it was especially for me as far as over

as far as like getting that, you know, my it come and, you know,

just giving them props. But it's it's it's genuine.

Like the teachings they gave us. I mean, it was like you're here

for a purpose. Like you're here.

You were born into this family for a reason.

Like I didn't accidentally drop you in here for us.

So like you feel lonely right now, but God, God gave you

abilities and skills that he wanted to be used for his

Kingdom right here at this place.

And so that was for me was like, you know, you, you, you, you

either get busy working or you get busy resenting basically

like, and that's where a lot of people that's big, you know,

like a lot of pastors, kids will fail.

Is that like, and that's not, I'm not judging here, but a lot

of people get resentful at the life they've been doing because

they don't buy into the idea that God has a purpose for them.

And it's hard because, and I, I would say like early on didn't

ever feel that way. I don't know if Cameron ever

went through that way. But obviously in my life, I went

through a stack where like you say that, oh, you have a purpose

and all, but you're, you know, 6-7 years old.

I was 8-9 and they didn't steal that and that was good and it

lasted for a long time for me. But then like once I got later

into teenage years, which we'll touch on later, it did feel like

a burden almost. And it's easy and I can see I,

I, I extend a lot of grace to pastor's kids who have been in

that situation and then don't necessarily meet expectations

because at the end of the day, you're still, I wasn't the

decision maker that said, OK, we're going here.

And that's what I think a lot of pastor kids struggle with.

They didn't feel like they were on top of the mount talking to

God, that they're following suit.

And it's hard, you know? I mean that that's not me.

I, I, I give grace. I mean, I'm a, I'm a grace.

I'm a grace guy. I don't, I don't believe me.

I I think part of that comes from once again, though, is like

when you understand purpose, when you'd like truly understand

purpose, grace becomes easy because we can mess up along the

way. Like, and that's even comes from

my parents, like my parents, like if we made mistakes or we

acted out was like it was always because we could do better and

they knew we could do better. It wouldn't come from a bringing

the hammer down on that. You know I'm trying.

That was the worst. They they trained us in such a

way and it's one of the best modeling of parenting and I hate

it. But they did a great job.

We're like, when you mess up, they don't even have to be hard

on you necessarily. You feel bad because you feel

like you let not just them down, but you kind of let yourself

down. And they did a great job of

that. It kept us in line pretty well.

I will say from an outsider's perspective, for for pastors and

for pastors, kids that a lot of people forget is like, y'all are

still human. I mean, you're you're, you're

just because you take this life on people just assume

immediately, not only the pastor, but the whole family has

to be 110% perfect. So you get scrutinized a lot

heavier than what anybody else would.

I think that's AI think that a lot of people forget, you know

what I mean? You're still you're still human.

You're still going to go through teenage challenges and and and

we all messed up. But you just run under a

microscope just the way that it is.

Unfortunately, yeah. It's, it's a road for sure and

it, it can be difficult. I didn't really struggle with it

at all until I got later into to the teenage years more, you

know? I'd say that, and I think part

of that just comes from from AI. Do I truly believe like the you

kind of we kind of shape our own perspective when we see things

like we really do. Like there's a certain aspect of

like is like, and even that like you're saying like going under a

microscope and like people may feel like that, like, but like I

never felt like our at least our parents never made it feel like

I was like, oh, every single aspect of your life is is under

a microscope necessarily. It was it was more for us that

they were like, like I said, they, they, they, they just told

us that, that, that we were meant to to do something.

You know what I mean? Like it, it came from not, not

from, not from your disappointing Johnny this week,

like they didn't come from, Hey, you really upset Johnny this

week, But you know, God wants you to be something.

You know what I mean? Like, and that's not to say like

that ideal is there for every Christian out there.

You know what I mean? That's that, that kind of thing

didn't. And I, I do understand

especially like that. There's especially like, like

you said, though, we, we made mistakes, plenty of mistakes.

I mean, we, we, we said things so they would get on to us or

we'd sometimes we'd be mean to you, John and our parents were

like, don't you do that? They'll leave the church.

I will say I don't remember that I don't remember.

That, I just guess, probably didn't.

Do that. It wasn't me.

But no, no, no, it wasn't like that.

But there are times are like we, you know, we would bicker, we

would fight in the church. And there are things that's

like, you know, like that, that maybe other people would say,

like you would feel like your life is under a microscope.

But like I said, I never felt like that.

They were pretty. They were grace.

They were graceful, you know. Our parents, yes, and we won't.

We don't even have to divulge on that.

They did a great job with that. I think they may have been

exposed to different situations with different pastors kids in

the past. And they made a decision on how

they wanted to raise us. And they did give us grace.

They allowed us to still be humans, little humans that are

turning into adults. And that that whole process it,

it's difficult. You know, you as a parent now, I

mean, you've got a little one, but shoot, when he gets my kids

age, he's going to have a mouth on them and you're going to want

to pop them, you know? And I'm sure my parents,

especially when I reached like 12, were pretty sick and tired

of me. When I look back, I'm like, man,

I would have hated parenting me. God forbid that happens with my

boys, but. So before we move on a little

bit further, I want to make it a little more light hearted here

If you I got some. I remember a few things from the

theater and I think it's cool to talk about this because I, it

brings up more memories, But man, like, I remember, man, we

were the original Sunday school squad.

Oh, yeah. And like, I remember when mom

would pull us back there and, you know, she would do like,

there was one where she made like pancakes.

We made pancakes. And then there was, I remember,

I still remember one of the Sunday schools where we had like

a bunch of Pixie sticks. And that was the thing.

We were like making art with Pixie sticks and I didn't know

what to do. And Colby was like, you put a

bunch of yellow and purple in there, dude, LSU go Tigers,

right? And I'm like, what are the type?

What? Colby made it his mission.

I'll never forget he made it his mission.

He was like, you're going to be an LSU fan.

You don't even know what this is.

I failed at it, but I gave it my best effort, son.

Yeah, I mean, I'm still. Working on it.

I I remember the first Christmas play we put on together and it

was the. Three of the gifts.

And Aunt Nicole, your Aunt Nicole was there too.

And yeah, it was the Christmas gifts.

We had the little boxes on each other.

And like I said, I don't know how many members we had at the

time. Probably like 15, I guess total

1520 ish. But yeah, it was just us out

there in those little boxes. But hey, I mean, it was like,

good. Yeah, that was good.

We were great actors. We've been great actors for

years. Now the I that's the kind of

thing though, that was like, and that's the thing where I always

give my once again, give give my parents credit for this is that

was like no matter how many people were there, no matter, no

matter who was in the audience or or or who wasn't in the

audience. Like as far as like, and I said,

isn't the congregation, you know what I mean?

I'm not saying like that like it's a show, but in the same way

as like some people would, some people would be, some people

would be really discouraged whenever nobody was like there

was no members in the church at that point, But they always put

on a surface like they always put on a surface.

Like even like we sitting there with just before predating you

and predating the other members we still had services on.

Because then dad would always say he's preaching to angels

unaware, like he would just keep doing it.

So I mean, that was like that was one of those.

Things he did use that line a whole lot.

And that was like a faithful. I think, yeah, I think that

faithfulness from him, I, I think that is a lot of what led

here. I mean, the man hasn't changed.

He may have gotten better at preaching over time, you know,

but he gave the same effort to no one, just his family sitting

out in the congregation that he does on Sundays now.

And that's not saying he doesn't give effort now.

He just gave a lot of effort when there was no one there.

And which would be hard to do man I.

Could I? Could man?

I would have been like, all right, guys, well, I guess

nobody's here. We'll just hang out until

someone shows up then. It's literally the best analogy

I have is, is Noah building an ark for all that time with

nothing, nothing to go on? And he was kind of doing that.

He was building an ark. You know that just preaching to

everybody saying, hey, floods coming and whatnot.

And we're like, hey, dude, I don't know if you like those.

There's a rough rain, sun. But you know what's funny is my

perspective on that time, I never, of course, I was still I

was a Todd, but I never looked at it like, Oh, we're going to

grow or anything. I tell you, when I was a kid, at

that point in time, having another family that I felt like

was close to my family was like all I cared for didn't care.

Like if we would have been just a ten of us forever, like I

would have eventually realized what was happening.

But at the time I was totally fine with like I'm not a kid

because we, I feel like our family's really just.

Bonded very quickly, was probably forced on both sides.

But like I remember man it for a while there every Sunday it was

like, hey, we're going to go to what was it called Casablanca?

No, it was king, Buffet, King, Buffet king.

Buffet, my favorite survivor. It was King Buffet every single

Sunday until I think someone got sick and then it was like, yeah,

we probably should pick another place.

It was still my favorite. Yeah, but he threw up in the in

the walkway, if you remember. Yeah, I just remember somebody

getting sick and we just, we never.

We got to stop. They probably didn't let us in.

They probably saw him walking. No.

They went out of business after that, so they were fairly

dependent on us. I.

Remember, man, I remember, I remember, you know, y'all would

come over to our my house and then I would go over to y'all's

house and play football and Star Wars and the whole.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

So it was, I will say for me at that time, it was like, man, I

just, I because that's how it was in Saint Louis.

I just had my cousins mainly. Like I had friends at school,

but it was my cousins that I was with.

Yeah, after school every weekend.

So it was like, OK, I have my cousin's back.

That's why that was my mindset. Then I was like, hey, I got my

cousin's back. I got people that like, I got

friends. Now it's like I have my family

back that I lost when I moved down here.

So that was my mindset of it. I mean, I, I remember it with

the theater going out in the front because there was a little

area of yard in front of the church, like in the parking lot.

And then they had the yard where y'all would have the sign and

then it would be like, let's just throw the football and see

what happens. Yeah.

Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah.

That that was one part I don't want to glaze over.

And all is like they it was a traveling roadshow every week

when in the early days, because we were just renting the theater

and renting it for one day a week, it was still operational

the rest of the week. And so I remember we had the

minivan lay a seat down, put a piano in there, all the the the

amp and everything, put a podium, the one of those little

stand up quick QikLink. Yeah, yeah, basically.

And then the sign, I forgot that they would take out the sign

every single week. Take it.

Right there and then have to pick it up and go because

whenever we would go to lunch, we'd have to, you know, my, my,

we were basically waiting for you guys to pack everything up

before we would leave out to, to go wherever the place would be

that we would go. That was cool too though,

because like the sign, I remember it got to a place where

that would do steaks. We would do the sign, we we

would bungee cord it up and everything.

And then with the piano got to a point where me and Cameron were

carrying the piano. That thing was heavy too for

little dudes, but they let us do that and I said they let us do

it. Not enforced child labor because

it really did give us a little bit of buy in.

We're like, hey, we're instrumental to this.

Like we got to go put this sign up, We got to go put this piano

up or we. Being included 100% was why we

had buy into it and and why we were, why we were like trying to

be the best greeters we could be the best welcomers.

You know what I'm saying? Like, for so long as I think we

probably were the church greeters for 10 years.

I guess you know what I mean as far as that goes.

Handing out peppermint fish. Yeah, like all the time.

But yeah, I mean, that was like, is that mindset really that buy

in? But during that time especially

though, no, it was great. Like our families and going to

hang out with you was great, 'cause it's like, oh, we have

somewhere else to go besides just our house, you know what I

mean? And it would stay too.

Because like you said, with Cousins, I think that kind of it

hit home for me too, because even up in Oklahoma, we were far

removed from our family. We didn't really have family in

any proximity. It was 10 hours away from

Louisiana, Mississippi, and then come and visit and everything.

But we had Nikki and Jared and they didn't have kids yet.

So they were aunt and uncle and they would take us out and that

was all cool. But as far as other kids, there

wasn't people in Oklahoma that we were really close to that I

remember we didn't have like a best friend.

We had a bunch of like, not acquaintances, but people you

knew, went to church, went to school, whatever.

You'd hang out, but we weren't super tight.

And then we got you. That was instrumental even in

just our personal life. I feel like because now you got

somebody. You got somebody to go to other

than just your brother. I know I.

Think that's a God. I mean you look back at like how

how how God God sent that. I mean, it was like, you know,

since most sister horrible moved here, where Penny moved here,

you know, and then your family moved here and it was like these

weren't people that necessarily were like converted, but they

were people that that we needed in our lives and God really

provided a way for us because that's like the encouragement.

Like if y'all, if y'all, if y'all hadn't been there, then we

might not have. Like that was the point where,

where where growth started from there, you know, and then the

Wilson family had come in, you know what I mean?

That was like, like, that's where the like the growth in the

launching point really was during those days.

And, you know, I mean, I always, I, I, I can never remember not

wanting the church to grow as far as that.

Like I never remember a portion of my life where that wasn't

like, you know, and I think like, so once again, it comes

back to the to the parents instilling that into the.

Well, you knew. You knew what the mission was.

Yeah. For me, I didn't know what that

was. I had no idea.

Like it was never really explained to me.

And even if it was, I wouldn't have understood it.

Like this is a a home mission. I was like, all I thought of it

was this is church. Yeah.

This is this is just it. This is what we.

This is Alabama. Like you don't have big, you

don't have big buildings in the whole mind.

This is the best we got. And we got and I was like, I

hey, but I was happy with it, you know, I was like, yeah, this

is fine. You know, I've got contentment.

It was actually kind of cool because because you didn't have

150 people. Oh yeah.

The people that were there, you, you, you got close to.

Oh yeah, yeah. I felt like we got close quick,

yes, in that, in that time frame.

So it was like it to me, it was like it was beneficial and I

didn't, I didn't need as a kid, obviously I was just a kid, but

I didn't need 150 other kids. You know, it wasn't about that.

It was just I just wanted that, that handful that was like, hey,

these are the, these are my boys.

Like because that's what it was for me in Saint Louis.

I had my boys, it's what I called my cousins, literally the

boys. And I just wanted that back.

So that's what it was for me. It was once I got it, I was

like, I don't know what a whole mission is, but I got what I

want so. Which which is great too,

because I feel like that that was their their purpose when

they talk about family church too.

It's not necessarily oh, people that are here and and whatever,

having families and all that, but that aspect of belonging,

you know, and I think they they crushed that early on, on the

mindset because those early days between the theater and Castle

Dr. when it was small, small, that was very close knit man.

And the, our parents, they did really good at it seemed like we

were always doing church stuff. They were, they were seriously

always in it. Now they're still doing it in

different, different aspects, but we would have small group

Bible studies at least once a week it seemed, you know,

getting people together, hanging out afterwards and all.

And that built such a feeling of community.

Well, that's and that goes back to what I was talking about

before. Isn't like just just because it

wasn't just about them doing service right, but it was truly

like a lesson I learned from them was just like, I can't, I

can't live my life for what I'm seeing right here, right now.

I need to build. I need to, I need to live my

life for what I want it to be. You know what I mean?

And that's the same way with the church was like, I want this

church to be a caring church, a family church.

And so like from the get go, if you just, if you're doing that

with every single person who comes in the door, that's why

our church was so tight knit. Like as it grew, like even even

whenever we got up to the 80s and the 90s, most people who

were in the church that time would say this was a really

close church. Like everybody basically like

the family just got bigger, you know, And that's like if you do

that mindset from the get go, if that's how you build your

church, like like like, well, that's like if we're all tight

together and we include other people into that, well, there's

not a point where like we where, where, where people are feeling

left out and like disillusioned, you know what I mean?

And I think that's been skipping ahead.

I'm I'm not, we can go back and talk about the past two, but

looking at it now too, I love that you see a little bit of

that evolution and there's probably a lot no church perfect

by any means. Lifegate isn't doing everything

perfect. You know, there's stuff to

improve on always, but I do like the aspect that, like you said,

you've got people who have since moved here in in this

congregation, in this building now that still kind of have that

mindset. You know, we reach out.

It's a Community Church. You're building relationships

with people as you're building your relationship with Christ,

and that just strengthens the whole congregation.

And I love seeing that. I love seeing people that have

been here just in this church that are hosting events and

really getting out there and still involving people in our

community and that hopefully people are feeling that way that

we felt when it was the three of us in a Sunday school class with

your mom drawn with Pixie sticks, you know?

And I, I don't think that's my, I don't think church should ever

feel different than that feeling that we all felt at the

beginning was that like, we're in this together, Like, you know

what I mean? Like, no matter what, even if

it's just the ten of us, like you said, that would be OK

because we're doing what we're supposed.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, this is what it's supposed

to be. Like.

It's supposed to be a family. Yeah.

So yeah, I remember, I remember, I don't remember moving to

Castle Drive, but it's like, it's like there's a blank in my

memory. But I remember just the building

and I remember when we first started going to the building

and how weird it was just from where we were used to.

I remember man, walking in that building and being like, man,

this, there's like a death stairs to get to the basement.

Like I have those stairs were so steep.

I was like, I feel like I'm going to trip down these stairs

and break my neck. And there's, you know, they had

all that room down there. And then, you know, just the way

that the upstairs was just, it just was so different, you know

what I mean, compared to what we were used to.

Like I remember, I remember that aspect, but that was also, I

mean, that was the building where I feel like there was a

lot of growth. There was some growing pains

that I won't get into, but there was definitely.

So I think that was that was probably where you had the most

growing pains was in that building, but also the most

growth because I remember, man, I still remember.

That was where Cole, we first started playing the drums.

Yeah, that came out of the blue. I remember from me as a kid, I

was like, whoa, you play the drums.

It was for me too. Whoa, I play the drums.

You know, we started, I remember we started having like at that

time we called it quote, UN quote youth, but it was still

Sunday school age down in the basement during the day.

Yeah, you know, it's that's when you first started feeling like,

hey, you know, there's some growth here.

Obviously I, you know, I that one that that building's a lot

more of a blur to me. All I can much more bring out of

that was just my Horror Story of still have the scar on my knee

from splitting it open in the on the Halloween.

We had a Halloween, our first, I guess, trunk or treat.

I just set up little tables in the in the basement or something

and we just ended up playing football out behind the building

and I and, and Colby hit you. You didn't tackle me, but you,

you 2. It was two hand touch and you

hit me pretty good. And I just tripped because

obviously I was not that coordinated.

And I, it's like there's a breeze on my knee.

I'm looking at. I'm like, oh, there's a lot of

red there. Yeah, yeah.

I, I had some mishaps. I, I remember that day.

I also, I think it was, I don't think it was that year, but it

was also, I think it was a Halloween day too.

We were having a fall festival or something like that.

I cut my finger to the bone on a chili.

Can that like I still have a scar to this day on like

dangerous mishaps? Literal, physical, growing

things in that church. Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, I mean, it was it's it it's it was, it was definitely

encouraging when we got to that building because that was the

first one that felt like when we moved from the children's

theater felt like, like at the time was like, Oh yeah, we're

going to get somewhere. But it is encourage.

There was encouragement during that portion.

But the Castle Dr. was when it was like, oh, this feels like a

like a like a church church now, you know what I mean?

And. Like, yeah, and not Even so much

as the building, but just the simple fact that like when you

leave on Sunday and you lock up, you don't have to move anything.

You. Don't have to move, it's.

Just yours, it's there. You know, you've got it, your

space. Yeah, that was nice.

And that was that was different in the the, for us, I think side

of it because of that it to me in the children's theater, it

wasn't ever that like, oh, do we could just always pack up and

leave. That wasn't in the mind because

dad just didn't have a Plan B, You know, it was the burn the

ship's motto. Like we were here locked in.

But for me, when we got Castle Dr. it did feel like, OK, we've

planted a flag now. Like we're no longer just on the

beach. This is serious.

We're making. Yeah, making some headway.

And so that was that was a different feeling.

And I think for us too, because we also got media during that

time too, like, yeah, media we got music like more than just a

projector, more than just the piano for music.

Like, yeah, there was a lot of yeah, a lot of different changes

made it more like, OK, OK, this is this is trending in a way.

And then I still think the the mindset didn't change.

Still high on the community and all.

We were still the greeting squad for a long, long time there.

Yeah, it it was a different feeling, though.

They're like, OK, we're locked in.

We're in Alabama. And I think for us on a personal

level that we moved around a lot.

It felt like because, you know, in in kids time, a week is like

a month. Yeah, exactly.

Like you remember how waiting for Christmas back in the day

was forever. And now I'm like, Oh my God, we

only got 40 days till Christmas. Yeah.

It just sneaks up on you when you get older.

But it felt like from the time we left Oklahoma, went to

Louisiana, travelled around a lot, that we were just in limbo.

And even when we got to Alabama, we were in an apartment at the

time. So I think around that time,

maybe before Castle Dr. it was definitely before Castle Drive,

but I don't remember when we got a house and we got the house out

in Harvest. And that was another pinnacle

moment where it's like, OK, we're here.

You know you. Had the house.

You had the house when we started coming.

I will say that because I don't remember.

You had it while we were at Children's Theatre.

I know that because I remember the house and I remember the

backyard. I remember the way it was all

set up because when I went over there, you know, it wasn't a, it

wasn't, I mean, my house that I was in wasn't big either.

So it was like it wasn't a big one or anything.

But I'm, you know, we played, you had to let you know, games

and you had the trampoline in the backyard, I think.

Trampoline that death trap. And then you know, you, but you

had like an open. It was like it was probably and

again, in my brain it looked like it was like 30 yards of

space where we would play football on the.

On the corner, on, on, on the side, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause you had that neighbor friend who would

come over and it would be two on two.

Yeah. And it never made any sense

because it was like it was always me and Cameron on the

same team. Because Kobe's a jerk.

Whoa, hey, you know what's funny?

I was dealing that with that today with some of our kids.

All the oldest children were on one team and the younger ones

were on another. I'm like, you guys are such

jerks. I would never do that.

You did that. You did.

That John's my witness. Because I want to say.

And I never got into sports until like I was a mid teenager.

Yeah, that was the other thing. Like I hated.

Sport Colby took it so seriously and me and Cam just did not

care. I think it was because there's

probably, I think the reason why I didn't like sports at the time

was because there was such a physical difference between

where Colby was at and where I was at.

There's just no point. Like I, I get so mad.

There was just no point you. Didn't get mad, yeah.

I I had God had to work on my temper for a while.

Me, Me and you. I feel like we were kind of more

like on the geeky side because I remember we were like in the

Star Wars. Oh, yeah, Yeah.

Hey. We loved all the.

PC game stuff, yeah. Bunch of Legos and all.

It was cool though growing up because I felt like we were

outside or playing most of the day until the sun went down.

You know, we weren't just on iPads or video games or whatnot.

And I still. Remember the first time I ever

spent the night at y'all's house there?

Yeah. And it freaked me out because

I've grown up my whole life with a fan.

I've never not had noise when I sleep.

So if it's silent, I can't sleep.

And when I went to y'all's house for the first time, y'all have

bunk beds and I was on the bottom bunk and when the lights

went out, dude, that house was so quiet.

I was like, I had an, I remember I had an anxiety attack.

So I was like, it's just so silent.

I can't sleep. And so y'all were like, dude,

like, like you're still, you know, I don't forget how it

happened, but I remember your, your parents had to go find a,

you had a tower fan or something that they brought in there just

so that I could like not have a panic attack because it was just

so quiet. I mean, that freak I, I'll never

forget that because that freak, that was the first time that I

was like, because even my everybody in Saint Louis had a

fan. Yeah, like everybody had a

little box fan. Like that's just how it was.

And. My parents did that.

Yeah, y'all didn't. And that was the first time when

I was like, this is weird, this is freaky.

Like I feel like I could hear somebody outside breathing.

Yeah. And it's it's.

Just the way now. And my kids will be that way

because we sleep with sound machines and everything.

And I, I've been at people's house the same way, like,

stayed, like, dead quiet. Yeah.

And there's just nothing. And you're like, OK, so I I

respect it now, you know, at the time, that's all we knew.

But now if, if it's too quiet, like at a hotel, if I forget the

sound machine, it's over. I got to play jazz or something

on my phone again. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I do.

Remember Castle Drive? Where were we at?

Castle Dr. You talking? About yeah, we were talking

about that. I do remember a couple of a

couple of things that I or at least one thing that that I

remember God making a big impact in my life early on.

I had to I had you're talking about at the at at the house.

I had the experience where I was having abdominal pain one night

where I just couldn't sleep. I was having severe abdominal

pain and I just was like tried to sleep through it for like an

hour, couldn't go back to sleep. So I finally went over to the

parents. So I was like, hey, I like I'm

having, I'm hurting in my stomach right now.

Like this is I think I was 8 years old at the time, or 8 or

10, I cannot remember. Probably around there.

Yeah, but came back and they were like, well why don't you

kind of go to sleep for now and just like see if it what

happens, you know what I mean? And so did that and it went

away. So I was like, OK, it was that

we went for like we went for like 3 weeks and didn't have

anything. And then I woke up again and

about 3 weeks later had the same thing was like I'm having

severe, like my stomach's just hurt and hurt and hurt and

they're like, well, they did this before and it seemed like

it was gas last time. So like, you know, you need to

go back to bed. So I went back to bed and was

able to go to sleep again. I mean, like I said, but you

know, my, I, I always faithfulness of like my parents,

they were, they had, my mom would always pray over anything

like that. So like we were praying over

that. Like they take away the pain, do

those things and, and went away. But then like 3 days after that,

the second time, about 3 days later, I mean, I just severe

abdominal pain in the middle of the night and I go up to mom

like, hey, it's, it's back. Like I can't sleep, you know,

crying like these things. And, and she was like, OK, well,

we'll go get it checked out in the morning.

And so this has been, it started been like 3 weeks and three

days, something like that since the first bout with it and.

We go to the doctor and the doctor is like, hey, are you

hurting? I'm like, no.

And so like they do all the tests like the doctors would do

on those things. And I was just like, OK.

And they're like, I don't know, this doesn't seem like it's

something severe. Just go get some imaging done.

You know, I mean, so they sent us off to go get imaging done.

And as, as we go through the imaging, they get out and mom's

like, hey, you want to go get like some ice cream or

something? It's been a really hard day, you

know, And at the time we didn't, we didn't have a whole lot of

money. So like anytime we get a treat,

it was like, dog, we're getting some ice cream.

You already know, you already know we're getting ice cream.

But we sit there at ice cream and the, the doctor calls back

because like this has been like 33 minutes after the imaging is

done. Like, so this was like right

there, precise. I mean, it was, I'm saying like

33 minutes is just been guess. But it had been we had just

enough time to to pull out of there and go to the drive

through like right across the street to get the ice cream.

And I'm still mid eating at mid eating the ice cream.

You know, it'd been like 1/2 an hour or something like that.

And the doctor calls back and was like, hey, you need to go to

women's and children's right now because his appendix is about to

burst. Like so we were, we went out of

there and like they just got us to the ER, to the wounds and

children's ER like they wheeled us in and pulled through surgery

and like as fast as I, it was just a blur.

And they went in there and they, they, they, they, they went

started surgery. And they said that when they

they pulled out my appendix, it just basically dissolved in

their hands, like right there when they pulled it out and wake

up. And you go back and you hear

that if my appendix had actually ruptured like it without them

working on it, that like the death rate would have been

really high. Yeah.

The mortality rate of that. I remember at the office to the

doctor had you do jumping jacks. Just to see coordinated cell,

yeah. Exactly, that was hilarious, but

that's neither here nor there. But no, that is I'm with you on

that because you go from Hey, do some jumping jacks.

Does this hurt? And then being like.

If this ain't hurting for real, then it's probably nothing, you

know, to call in and saying, hey, get them to women and

children's right now. And like, that's one of those

things that's like, you know, and, and a lot of times you see

like appendix stuff like it starts hurting and it stops

hurting whenever it's done, whenever it burst.

You know what I mean? It was a really strange

situation that that that it was able to go, I was able to go 3

weeks or so without having any complications.

So I just thank God for that. And that's like just like all of

those minor things that you look back over your life and you're

just like, wow, God's a good to me.

You know what I mean? Like.

Yeah, and that's that's big at a young age too.

Those like the stones that Joshua put up, you know, that's

one of those stones that really I think builds our lives in, in

our faith too, and those moments.

So let's get into, let's get into a little bit more personal

here. So obviously you guys got to

watch me come back in. I did not get to watch y'all's

experience as far as getting the Holy Ghost.

What how old were you in both of you guys when you guys got the

Holy Ghost got baptized? Because I don't remember Cam, I

don't remember anything about your experience, so you must

have gotten it before you moved here or it happened while I was

out. So let's see, I got for me, I,

for my 8th birthday, I woke up like two or three weeks before

my 8th birthday and I was like, hey, I know what I want to get

for my birthday. And they were like, what do you

want to get for your birthday? And I was like, I want to get

baptized for my birthday. Like that's what I want.

And so they worked it out because we were at the

children's theater at the time, but they worked it out to go to

Athens service on the Sunday night after our service.

And they baptized me on my 8th birthday.

And they got me a Bible, which I still have to this day, which

has the marks up from the parents, like wrote a note.

So I'll go back in and reference that from time to time.

You know, I mean, it's a new international version, though.

So I mean, you know, they're, they're churches who wouldn't

let you read that, you know, but it's too easy to comprehend.

But you know, the we, they, they gave me a, they gave me a, a

Bible for my 8th birthday and I got baptized at First Church in

Athens. And yours was black, right?

Black and gold with gold inscription.

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty classy for an 8 year

old's. Bible.

I was like, well mine was like blue with silver.

Not quite as classy. Did you already have?

Did you already have the whole you got?

Baptized. No.

No, I did not. So you you got that a little bit

later then? Yeah.

I, I just like I said, woke up at that, that 7 or 8 range.

And like you said, even though, even though I think I had AI had

the idea of like, we're here to start a church and we need to,

we're here to fulfill Jesus's mission, like those kinds of

things. For whatever reason, you know,

you're like, you're going on that 8th birthday and like that

seven 8th birthday and you're like, man, I should get

baptized. Like, I'm just clicked, you

know? And then I wouldn't say that

like, I really just was like seeking the Holy Ghost at that

time. I wouldn't necessarily classify

that as as. Hard to when you're that.

Young yeah, I don't really think I was like seeking the Holy

Ghost at all at that time. I had gotten baptized and I was

thankful for that, but it was a youth camp whenever I was 9.

So about a year after that, that like they had, they had gone up

there and I, I don't remember the, the, what the message was

or anything about that, but the, the I, I just felt compelled.

Kobe had already, Kobe had already received the Holy Ghost

and before this at that point, yeah, no, I mean, I, I, well,

you can go back and tell your portion of that, but I, I just

remember that Kobe had already had it previously.

And so like, I think just part of my mind was like, well, I

think, well, this is, this is for me too.

You know what I mean? Like that's, that's that kind of

like, I, I know God wants me to have this too.

And I, yeah, I, I so I just knelt down at the altar at kids

camp. And I've always been one of

those people that like, I'm not, I'm a, I'm a cynical person, OK?

Like I'm a very, I have to, if God's going to, if God's going

to do something for me, I need to know it's him.

Like that's like I, I and it's if like the biggest struggle in

my life, I guess. So there's probably been missed

opportunities because in my own brain you psych yourself off

saying, does God want me to do this?

Are there things that God's leading me to do?

Is this just me thinking this like that?

That's always been my mindset. So whenever I was a kid, you

know, I and I, I remember praying for the Holy Ghost a

couple of times before that, maybe at the youth, the youth

camp before that, definitely I prayed for the Holy Ghost

whenever, at my, my first, my first kids camp, I prayed for

the Holy Ghost and, and did not receive it.

And so, you know, that was just kind of like one of those.

So I was like, OK, it's just not for me yet.

But I know, you know, even though, even though my brother

had received it. And so for me, I was like, well,

God, if if this is you, I really need you to like, like, like

take over my mouth because I don't want to be one of those

people who's just, you know, faking it.

I don't want to fake it till I'm watermelon.

Yeah, that was me as a kid. I was like, God, I'm not going

to just do this because people expect me to do it.

Like, I need you to basically move my mouth to compel me to do

this. Like, and that's not necessarily

the attitude that I would inspire anybody to have.

But at that moment, you know, I'm just praying to God.

I'm just like, God, I really, I really need to do this.

And I need you to show me that you are real because I'm not

going to fake this. And you know, you do even like

you can get that that kind of like purity as a child, you

know, you feel, you feel God actually like you.

You don't feel like you're in control in that moment.

Like when you start to feel like when you're praying for a second

and then you feel God actually taking control and you're like,

this is this is real. Because even my doubting Thomas

self, it was like, I refuse to do something because people has

always been me. I've refused to do something

just because people expected me to do it.

You know, I want to do this because it is the right thing to

do. And so, yeah, that moment just

took over. And that was, I mean, it really

solidified my faith because it was.

And I don't like, like what Roberto Colin was like, I don't

like to fleece God. I, I try not to fleece God ever.

But in that moment, that's what I needed to reaffirm my walk

with God was like, hey, if you care enough to like to, to, to

really move over a hard headed 10 year old kid who's not.

I'm not going to go and be ballistic and, and running

around and, and doing all these things at that time.

Like I'm not going to go up there and I'm not going to go up

there and just, and just motormouth my way to getting the

Holy Ghost. I'm going to say 3 words and I

need to you to speak through me God.

And he did. And I was it was one of those

moments that I was just like, you know, you're just grateful

that God cares about you so much to, to, to just show up like

that to get. Around your stubbornness.

Exactly. Yeah, I that something about

being a child too, that I think it matters a lot.

I was 8 and we were in Oklahoma and then I was baptized a few

weeks after that. It is different being a child, I

think. And it's it's, it's not that

it's more pure what not, but as you're an adult and you go

through life and you're working, paying bills.

Exactly. And, and also it's difficult for

us because one of the biggest things I think with, with

people, for one, if you look at the way Peter laid it out, OK,

it's not a lot of people put it as, oh, it's a requirement, you

know, but he says, repent and be baptized and you will receive

the gift of the Holy Spirit. And that word gift, I think is

what really matters to me a whole lot is like, this is for

you. This is something God's giving

you, something to seek after. And the biggest thing of that is

taking that control away as we're adults.

It's hard for people to come to Christ as an adult and then

really lose control and say, God, it's all in your hands, you

know? And I had to learn that the hard

way, which will be later in my testimony.

But yeah, you know, no matter what, life's ups and downs and

all, and it's difficult relinquishing that control once

we like being in charge a whole lot.

When I was 8, though, it was great.

We were in Oklahoma surrounded by people we knew and loved.

That was great. One of the worst moments in my

life, though. I'm going to be completely

candid in this, OK. I remember to this day having a

conversation with my dad at our little glass table and more.

You remember our glass table over there And we were talking

and he was like, do you want to get baptized?

Because they, I already told him, hey, I want to get

baptized. And he was like, do you want to

get baptized here? And Brother Clinton, our pastor

at the time in Oklahoma, he's like, brother, can't Brother

Clinton can baptize you. Or do you want to wait a week

and we can go to Louisiana and then I can baptize you and we'll

be down there with family and even our family in Mississippi

come down and everything. For one, don't know why.

And I'm blaming him on this one a little bit, OK, Because as a

dad, I'd make a better decision. But he asked me.

And I was like, I want to be baptized up here in Oklahoma.

And so I did. And I regretted that for so

long. I've gotten over since I've

gotten over since then. But that was really a rough

moment for me because I was like, man, I chose, you know, to

be baptized up here. And I don't know that I really

going back, I would have chose to be baptized in Louisiana with

my dad doing it and all of our family being there.

That would have been great. And then if you remember, I got

re baptized by my dad in Huntsville when I think I was 12

at the time. And for me, that's really where

I started thinking about God a lot more.

We got here, we're getting bought in and I was like, hey,

I'm getting serious about it. I want to kind of recommit

myself. And then also I want you to

baptize me, you know, and that at 12, that was kind of a moment

for me. Like, OK, we're here doing this

church thing in Madison. We're going to lock in and and

really do it. And so that that was a good

faith building moment for myself.

You. Know what's funny about that?

That was the first time that I was baptized.

And the impression I had was that the reason why you got

baptized, because we got baptized at the same time, was

because the impression that I had or, and I think someone

might have mentioned it to me and it could have been true.

Could have been not, could have been them just someone telling

me that made me feel better. They were like, oh, yeah.

So that you're not the only person Kobe's going to get

baptized too. So if not all the attention's

going to be on you. That was that was what somebody

told me that I'm not. Oh really?

Did it make you feel good or bad?

I felt a whole lot better than because I thought it was just

going to be me. That was the biggest thing.

Well then that worked out. Really.

Great. And when all the highs on me is,

I was like, Oh yeah, Kobe's going to do it too.

That way you're not the only only one getting baptized.

And for whatever reason that sounds like that makes me feel

better now. I did not get baptized because I

knew what I was doing. I just got baptized because I

was told you had to. So that I can get into a little

bit later, but. Yeah.

But at the same time, I mean, you're still, you're told, hey,

I should do this. And you're responding even at

your age being like, hey, you know, I was told to do this, I'm

going to do it. Yeah, I said.

You can respect that always. I would say back to that part of

that, I do like what what we were talking about Brother Shane

about this few weeks ago whenever we met with him and he

was, you know, we talked about receiving the Holy Ghost.

Think I think I really liked what he had said before where

like so many people get so caught up and they're seeking

that they start seeking for tongues and they can't find it.

But he said what you're seeking for is God and what you'll end

up finding is that manifestation of him seeing God first.

But don't seek the experience you're looking for.

You seek God, you find this, you'll find it because he's like

tongues is not the Holy Ghost. Tongues is the sign of God

moving on you. And so when you find God, you'll

find that. And that's just when brother

Shane said that I was like that, that, that that's a powerful.

That's a man. I would have loved to been

there. We'll have to do.

We'll have to see if we can get into a Part 2.

Yeah, I love being there. Yeah, I'd love to be there for.

That I will say this. That was 1.

If he's listening to this one, hopefully he listens this one.

He's probably not. I probably yeah, that was one of

the more enjoyable ones recording because that was one

of the ones where it was like I sat down there and I I went back

to being a kid in youth classroom.

And I'm not even kidding. It was like, I feel like I'm in

youth all over again listening to my youth pastor tell me all

these things and I'm like, I feel like a kid.

Good. This is great.

But anyways, so I guess the one of the things that I wanted to

get into you guys and yeah, we'll see which way it goes.

But at what point did you guys feel call on your life and what,

what was that call? What was that, that feeling when

that happened? I, I say I want you guys to do

it first because I'll kind of I'll throw mine in there once I

get to that point. It's like a storyline.

That's how I imagine this going. So you, you guys, you guys were

a lot more invested and knowledgeable about it at that

age than I was. So when did you feel that first?

Like this is what God what? This is what I think God's call

on my life is or or or of that scenario.

Cameron's is going to be better than mine a a better answer, but

I can get mine out of the way if you want to.

For real, I don't I feel like there was a moment that I can

still remember at I think it was Alabama Youth Explosion.

We went to where I'd man brother Zach Wells was praying with me

at Alabama Youth Explosion and I was young, maybe 12 or

something. And that to this day is like a

moment that I felt the Spirit, like I've never felt it before.

I mean, just all over me completely.

And in that moment I was like, OK, God's got a purpose for me

not knowing what the call is. And we, I've got a lot of

different opinions of, you know, us romanticizing our call in

some ways. When I started getting more

involved in church stuff, going to youth camp was great.

That was great. But then like you start getting

more involved in different church stuff.

I feel like I sought it so much that I started putting my own

expectations into it, if that makes sense.

So for me, I had always been thinking, oh, you know, you're

in church, you're doing this, your dad's a preacher and

everything. You're going to be a preacher.

And the biggest part of that was the, I, I mean, I'll be upfront

with it was my ego. That's it.

That's like the, the ego of me being that, hey, I can be a

great preacher. I can do this, blah, blah, blah.

Like I, I can work hard and I can become a great preacher.

And all my mindset set shifted very negatively.

Looking at it now in my perspective, you know, growing

up as a teenager, that was what I was going to do.

Like, OK, I'm, I'm going to go be a preacher and everything.

It wasn't until later in life, even a couple years ago where I

really started expanding upon the actual call of God and what

that really means for me personally, I'll let Cam go.

So we're talking in, in our youth time frame because I, I've

got different timelines on where I'm at like.

But that was that was the first time that you felt like, hey,

there's there's there's something for me as far as the

future. And at first it seemed like it

was going to be preaching. Well, at the time it, I don't

know if I'd say that at 12 it was pure.

I didn't care. At 12, the purpose was in a pure

way of whatever the song, you know, the songs, like if you can

use anything, Lord, you can use me.

That when that was my mindset, like I don't care what you got

me doing, I'll go do whatever. Like that's how it felt then.

And then as I shifted, I think I put myself and other people's

expectations on to what my call was, you know?

And I will say, and I'll give you a chance here in a second,

but I will say I think I can relate a little bit and I think

a lot of people can. I really feel like, and This is

why I like to ask people this question, but I really feel like

for young men, especially all of us, I don't know if it's just

that every man has that ego or if it's just the notion.

But it seems to me like most young men, when they when they

get to that age where it's like, OK, God, what's my calling?

It's like the very first thing is I'm going to be a preacher.

Yeah, I'm going to be an evangelist or whatever the case

may be. So I, I feel like as we get into

it, I'll be able to relate more because that was that was the

first thing for me too. And I think it was for a lot of

people. But then you kind of mature up

and it's like that's not the only way that you can be used is

from a pulpit. No.

So I, I do feel like that's just the thing that a lot of young

men struggle with is that exact thing.

It's not, it's not, it's not unknown.

Everybody. I, I really do think that, well,

I don't know what it is. It must be preaching.

Yeah, and I, I think it's back to the control thing, you know,

and giving yourself up to God. I think it's the easy answer for

a lot of us is like when you're willing and it starts in a pure

place where you're like, hey, my heart is ready and willing to

serve you in whatever capacity. The easiest thing to grasp to,

especially as a young man is I'm going to be a preacher.

And even if it's something like, oh, I'm going to go start a

church and on. And we saw it first hand on how

much of A toil that was. But I think it's just the

easiest thing to latch onto where you can say, OK, I'm

serving God. And the, the thing with that is

that like, well, our father, he may be preaching every Sunday in

awe, man. There's so much more to his

ministry behind the scenes that people don't see generally

unless you're involved in his life.

And that's a lot of the ministry I feel like is, I don't want to

say more important. It's by the foolishness of

preaching that we're saved. But there's a lot that goes into

that that people on the outside will see a whole lot more than

then they will a preacher, you know, unless you're going out to

people. Yeah, I I think it's just, it's,

it's ease of access for us. We see preachers, we want to be

used of God. We gravitate to that naturally.

I think we glorify it. Yeah, and that was my thing when

you think about it. And that's that's a little bit

of the negative subculture in some sense.

It's like when we talk about stuff and we hype them up like

they're rock stars sometimes for better or worse.

And it's good too. It's not bad.

A lot of times it's good. But I think end of the day, it

doesn't matter the vessel that the message coming through if

the, if the heart is pure, God's message is what's being

preached. It doesn't matter the vessel.

And I think that's where we lose sight.

Sometimes we're like, oh, this guy here, man, he's a great

evangelist. He is this.

But if we look at it from a better perspective, he is the

instrument. That's the voice of God.

You know, if his heart's pure and he's delivering a message

from God, it's not about him. And that's why you see these

cycles of evangelists, if you will, with names and people.

They people in a lot of times God's messages is flowing for

somebody that's great in that moment, you know, and what the

way the message is needing to be delivered.

And when you're young, you just hear great names and you're

like, that's going to be me, man.

I'm going to be up there preaching Youth Congress.

You know, and you see that even with people who have, who have

been used by God in a great way, and then they and then they kind

of fall away and then people doubt their whole ministry.

But a lot of times it's not like that.

A lot of times what happens is that people do get used and

then, you know, through their own life, you know, and pride

and such things that could take away they, they internalize that

as something that they do, you know, I mean, that's what's

where people got to people got to separate like that, that like

you said, God uses people at particular times.

And you know, and not only that, it's like, it's not, it's not

because we're great that that God uses us.

We're, you know what I mean? God is great and his message is

great ultimately. And so if, if, if whoever the

person is who gets to convey that, you know, like, like you

said, you know, and that's where you see people though, where

people will fall away, you know, that doesn't invalidate

everything they said horrible people have said of great things

because his word is good. Like that's it.

I mean, ultimately. And that's the thing too, man,

like and, and, and I think we struggled with that too, because

there were some ministers that were very tie up big names, if

you will, in ministry. And when you're growing up,

those are the rock stars. You're like, man, I want to grow

up and be like those guys. And then we grow up.

And some of those do have a falling out and you're like,

man, like something happened in their personal life.

Maybe it was ego eventually got them, I don't know.

But when you're young and you're an impressionable teenager and

they have that falling out and all it it, it can kind of affect

your face, but you, your faith, but you don't need to throw out

the message. It's the same thing with God

using the donkey. It's even like Saul, like Saul.

Saul at one point in his life was the guy who who took Israel

to task and said you don't have faith in the Lord, like you

don't have faith and he's going to do this.

He cut up the ox and sent it to every portion of it and said, if

you don't join us in battle, this will be the rest of your

livestock are going to look just like that.

We're talking about that, that that was Saul one point in his

life. And so just because Saul

inevitably fell to his own ego, you know what I mean, that

didn't invalidate how much faith Saul had.

No, in those moments where he was delivering the message that

God was giving to him, to the people, you know what I mean?

And also God didn't tear down the Kingdom of Israel because

Saul had an issue himself he raised.

Up someone else in the same way. That's one of the things that I

and that's one of the things that that I have preached before

was that the same You know Jonathan, Jonathan had

incredible Jonathan had incredible faith.

It's all son whenever he stepped out to fight on the mountain by

himself, which is him and his armor bearer and he routed the

enemy by himself and he learned that from his father in the way

that his father LED his life. Why, why later in the life with

Saul and and Jonathan, and by extension, why would there need

to be, you know, that David, why was no one willing to step up

and fight like that? You know, that's, that doesn't

mean that they were wrong at the earlier points in their lives.

And then somewhere along the way they lost that faith that they

had originally like they lost. They started trusting and who

they were, and then they realized that they were

inadequate for the moment because we all are ultimately

inadequate without God. That's the truth, yeah.

So, but as far as like moments of ministry, like as far as like

when did I feel called to it? It definitely.

And it's it, it wasn't like a, it wasn't like a moment,

especially my childhood. I'd never, I, I once again, I've

been cynical and somewhat of a doubting Thomas my entire life

when it comes to God. So like it wasn't like 8 years

old had those things. No, I just knew that I knew that

God wanted me. As far as moments, I always felt

compelled after services and after those things, I felt

compelled. My mission was to help people

like that. Was it like and, and, and like I

never, I never wanted to preach whenever I was a kid.

I never wanted to, to, to preach whenever I was a teenager, even

for the most part. Like there's moments where

you're like, where you do feel like that, where you're like,

man, I would love to be a preacher, but but like I never,

I, I never professed to anybody that I was called to preach

ever. Which to me, I'm going to speak

on it. This is personal opinion, OK,

Not saying it's God. Those are the people that I want

behind pulpits. Also, you know, other people who

are not looking for it. I feel like God.

You see it time and time again in Scripture where the people

that are the most unwilling are generally the ones that he wants

the most in those positions. I you go ahead, go ahead.

That I wasn't saying that to fit into some kind of and some kind

of stereotype. Or anything like that.

No, I I know you weren't. I know you weren't at all.

But I know watching you grow up, I don't know.

I kind of always felt that you were more humble than me in a

lot of ways. You were more of an introvert.

And then when Cameron started preaching, he's going to get all

awkward. We're going to have to get all

over this and everything. But we came back and all.

I've always not liked young preachers, you know, because

it's a lot of desire, in my opinion.

And I always feel that the people desiring to have a

microphone, and this is probably prejudice on my part, but the

people desiring to have a microphone, in my opinion, I'm

like, those probably aren't the people for the job, OK.

And Cameron, never been a guy who's like, yo, give me that mic

because I got to tell these people something.

And because of that, every single message that he's

delivered, I mean, it's resonated with me on a deep

level. And he's an intellectual

speaker, I think. I think he is a perfect example

of a vessel, not necessarily him in himself.

You know, I'm not making this, you know, awkward enough about

you, but he isn't a perfect example of a vessel that is open

and willing to be used of God without that selfish desire.

That's why he is a preacher and I'm not.

That's that's my opinion of it. I had that personal desire and

he didn't. He's he's, you heard him say

that about his desire was to help people and through his

pulpit ministry where he's able to speak.

I think that's just an extension of helping people and he does it

in a great way. So would you say, did you say

that you're you felt like you're calling then was not to preach

your calling was more I don't want to say generic in a bad

way, but your calling was more generic in a sense of it was my

calling is to help this church however I can.

I'd, I'd say just that this church is the, is the, is the

men is the ministry point and God placed me and I was just

always, I've always been a person that wherever God puts me

in my life, I'm going to give it my all there and for as long as

it until God tells me to do something differently.

That's not to say that I don't. I love this church.

I, I love this church as much as it is, but it's always been for

me. Like, you know, whenever I was a

kid, I always thought I was going to grow up and, and move

somewhere else. Like I, I really did.

I always, I had a great desire to, to, to leave at a certain

point in my life, but I always knew that wherever I was at, I

knew God called me to, to minister like, not not

necessarily from a pulpit necessarily like that, but I

always knew God wanted me to be as invested as possible into his

people. Like that's that was it.

And I even got mad. I mean, I said God at a certain

point, like because you have so many people who have

breakthrough moments and things like that, where, where, where,

where, like, you know, oh, you know, God's going to speak to

you right now or those things like that, You know, like what

you and you heard great stories. I don't doubt those at all.

I really don't how God chooses to to talk to different people

or anything like that. But there, there definitely was

moments in my life where especially even after being

involved and in, in even being like, you know, you start to get

used in some of those capacities where you start to speak or

something like that. And you're like this feel, I

feel like I'm doing what's right.

I feel like I'm doing what's right.

I feel like, like, you know, I started speaking and I feel like

I'm doing what God wants me to do.

Like I feel, I feel that presence of God when we're

speaking, when we're studying. I feel like God's leading me to

say something like these moments.

But you know, there wasn't that moment that so many people have

or you have the breakthrough and you say, you know, and you get

to that point, especially like early on and you're like, God,

if this is what you're doing, you've done this for so many

other people, why won't you just come out and say it to me?

You know what I mean? Why won't you give me and meet

my expectations on what I think you should do for me And that

that moment never came for me. Like so many people talk about

like, like, like that powerful moment where they're just

praying before God and God just speaks to him and says, you're

called to speak to my people. And, and, and do that never came

like, but I continue to do what God tells me to do on the daily.

And I'll do that as long as he wants me.

If he wants me to speak, I'll speak.

And if he tells me to stop speaking at some point, I'll

stop speaking. Like if it, if it feels wrong,

if, if the presence of God convicts me and I know my time's

done, my time is done. Like that's it.

For me, maybe you guys can help me out with it because I'm

still, I kind of was like you I had when so the first time I

went to camp and the first I only went to camp once.

But during that time at camp, that was probably when you know,

I was really like like I got the Holy Ghost at the youth

explosion before, but then there was nothing else.

Then went back to camp and then and that's when, you know, felt

the spirit again and was like, OK.

And then I had, I had that same mindset of oh, OK, I think I

felt God's calling me to be a preacher.

That's that's what I feel like my calling is, which made sense

to me because I hated crowds and I hated public speaking.

So in my head, it was like, there's no way this is me

because I would not choose this. And then obviously just as time

went on, I just, I, I, it's probably more on me.

I just never really pursued it. But then I also got into my own

self like with Cam where it was like, well, what if that was

just me? And I'm still kind of in that

spot where it's like, I don't really know 100% what it is

because I'm looking for that same experience that Cam had

that God stop me in my tracks and tell me.

Because like for me personally, it's one of those where it's

like, I don't know what's a calling and I don't know what's

a burden. I can tell you what I have a

burden for, but I really have, I'm still at that point to where

it's like, I really don't know what it is.

Like I have a burden for youth ministry.

I have a burden for, for hyphen ministry just because I know

that's a burden because I know what it was like, how important

it was for me in my life. So right now it's that mindset

of just like, well, I just, I don't want to worry about what I

think my calling might be. I just want to worry about what

can I do to help? Maybe I'll have that like what

brother Shane was talking about for him where it just everything

went white and it was God told him audibly.

It's like maybe that'll happen, but so far it hasn't.

So it's just one of those things where it's like, I always get

scared that it's like, oh, you know, you think your calling is

this because that's what everybody thinks it is.

And I'm looking for that, that revelation of, oh, this is what

it is. So I would say that's probably

the biggest thing that I struggle with right now is what

is a calling and what is a burden?

Because they're two different things.

What are you called to do versus what do you have?

Because just because you have a burden for something doesn't

necessarily mean that that's what you're calling is.

So that's why I asked is like, So what?

What made you realize it? Because I don't know.

Yeah. And I think we both ended up, we

don't necessarily know either. That's where I'm at right now.

Like, I don't know, but I do love what you said about a

burden because I think that's where everything starts.

You cannot have a calling without having a burden where

your heart is actually like reaching towards something.

You're like, I want this to be good.

I don't care if I'm involved, you know?

But like, my desire is to see this aspect really good and

something's on your heart. I mean, I think that overall, I

think that I think that when we get to the end of our lives, and

I mean, like I said, there's been people certainly during

that, like I've had that moment like like brother Shane, where

it's like, this is what you're, you're, you're called to do,

you're going to, you're going to do those things.

But I think I think for most people like you even look, look

through the Bible at different points in our life, we're called

to different things straight up like where we're at in our

ministry, like, and who we are as a person.

The Apostle Paul, when he started off his ministry, like

he wasn't necessarily like solo preaching everything like

himself. He was working with Barnabas at

first. He was working with these

people. You know, that was his calling

at that time was to do that. Like he didn't go off to start

every church by himself like he did later on in life.

He wasn't the he wasn't training up the Timothy's and the, and

the Titus is at that point, it's calling at that point was, was

to help with like was to help preach with Barnabas.

Like that was the the word that got out there.

And you see that his ministry evolved over time where he

eventually became the person who was training up the Tituses and

and and the Timothy's and and that point.

And even like Steven, when you go back and read through and the

before he gets, you know, the ministry there before, before he

gets stoned, you'll see how you'll see like in that in the,

in the, in Acts there where the first, the first ministry before

we see the city get taken over was the, the apostles.

You know, they were, they were talking, they said we don't have

time to minister to the needs of the widowers.

And, and these people at the time who were having a real

legitimate issue, they weren't being taken care of like they,

like they should have been. So they said we don't have time

right now to minister to these needs when we're trying to grow

the church like we're trying to. So they appointed, they

appointed people to take care of the needs of those of those

people. And what you see there is that

those people who who ministered to the widows and to those

people at the time went up and actually caught the whole city

on fire. So they're calling at one point

was to minister to the widows. But what happened was their

ministry grew. Their calling grew because they

did the one part. And so it wasn't even the

apostles who really took that off right there.

It was the people who did what they, what the apostles

appointed them to do, which was take care of the widows and the

needy. And then the city turned upside

down because they followed this calling.

And then what that turned into was a greater great quote,

greater calling that we would recognize.

So at different points in our lives, we're called to do

different things. So like for me, like who I am

today and what God has for my purpose today is that may be one

thing, but in a few years, maybe God's put me in a different

position and my calling will be different, you know, at

different points in our lives. And I think that's where the

burden comes into play. I mean, I think you see that in

Jeremiah. I mean, that's what compared to

me like as far as whenever I talk about preaching the word, I

would compare, I would compare the feeling that I have the

closest to Jeremiah whenever he says it's like a like a fire

shut up in his bones. You know what I mean?

That that's the feeling that I have.

There's you read the Bible and you and, and you read it and,

and you get excited because you got to tell somebody about what

God has to say. That's not, that's not because I

felt the audible voice of God tell me to go preach that, but

I'm sitting there reading it and I if I try to contain what I'm

seeing here inside of me, then I feel like I'm going to explode

because there's something, there's something inside of me

that's got to get out. And so that's the greatest

compelling for me is like, that's how I knew my calling was

because if I'm not fulfilling it, if I'm not fulfilling it,

I'm not going to be able to sleep at night.

Like if that fire is going to burn.

Yeah, no, I'm with you. And I think that's the biggest

thing too. Something you can't get your

mind off of, something that's really bothering you.

Backtrack on that. We got back in church a few

years back, went to Youth Congress and at youth Congress,

the preacher did you know what they do sometimes?

And he's like every hand eye, every, every, every eye close,

every hand raised. And he's like, I want you to

reach out and you talk to God and he's going to tell you,

you're calling, right? And I was like, OK.