Episode #15 - Eric McGarr

So we got brother Eric Mcgar here today and we're I'm going

to, I'm going to just jump right into it because I don't want to

keep everybody here all night, but I'm going to pick up, pick

back up what we were talking about earlier today, just

because I wanted to talk more about it, but I didn't have

time. There's not a lot of people who

are really into biblical archaeology the way that me and

my dad are. And you are absolutely, I don't

know, Colby, if you've ever watched Joel Kramer on YouTube.

I love dude, actually. That stuff is so cool.

And I'm like, Eric Magar is the one other dude in this church

who's like, he's in it. And I'm like, if I see something

cool, I'm like, I bet because I often know you watch that.

I've probably seen most of his. You're talking expedition Bible.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've probably seen most of them.

I kind of check back and forth to see if there's a new one out,

but I just think it's incredibly fascinating.

I've listened to a lot of Wes Huff stuff.

He's a Christian apologetist, he's a head of Christian

apologetics of Canada. And he goes more into like the

biblical manuscript side of it more so than the archaeology.

But I find all of it extremely fascinating and more so in the

last year is is really when I've started to get into it.

Get into it, yeah. No, Dad has been on that for

years and he finally got me into it.

I like expedition Bible, but there's I like watching just a

lot of them in general because there's a lot of them that are

like, it's like Jewish people who live in Israel and they'll

do like historical archaeology stuff.

And to see their point of view for a lot of it is so cool

because it's they know their history and their culture.

I watched 1. I don't know if you've seen it,

but these two guys, they, they had excavated a city not too far

from Jerusalem itself. The Israelites have or

Israelites, Israel has excavated a city and I this guy that was

on it was like a vice president of Israel and they were talking

about this city they had found where they just, they had found

so much stuff in it, like coins from the city of the shows, like

the Star of David on it. And they're like these has got

to be at least 1500 years old and stuff like that.

And I'm like, it's just so it's like a visible like it shows you

like historically. Hey, this stuff is legit.

Have you seen the one with Joel Kramer where he talks about it

was like Egyptian. It was like a tablet that's like

a letter from some king in the land of Canaan to Egypt

referencing the Israelites that were when they were invading.

They called him the hobby Roux, have you?

Seen that one? Yeah.

Have you heard of that one? That is the wildest 1 I think

I've seen all together where they're like the I, I couldn't

imagine the perspective historically from all of the

different kingdoms that were in the land of Canaan when the

Israelites came back in with Joshua.

Like, and that gives sight to that.

You're like, Oh my gosh, there's these people that come out of

nowhere. We have no idea who they are.

And they're literally toppling Kingdom after Kingdom after

Kingdom. And he writes that letter to

Egypt. And I'm sure the Egyptians are

like, we've had enough of them. Y'all are on your own.

Yeah, There was a guy that I was kind of witnessing to on and off

that kind of triggered my interest in all of that.

And he's a very analytical type. And he was just routinely coming

back to me and asking me questions.

And they were like existential life question type questions.

He's very philosophical. And my main goal was to, I have

to prove that the Bible is real because he can't just say the,

you know, read the Bible. He needed to prove that the

Bible was real. So it's one thing to believe in

something and it's another thing to be able to defend it, right.

And, and so I kind of went down that rabbit hole as a way of my

conversation with him. And then it turned into I

actually did the Bible study on a Wednesday night a while back,

called the People versus God. I don't know if both of you were

here or not, but that was a lot of that material was my stuff,

my research where I had been talking to him and it was, it's

one of those topics where kind of like a lot of things, the

more you look into it, the more you realize you don't know.

And it just, it's very fascinating.

I love being able to have that evidence.

Like of course, I believe what I believe because I have

experiences that you can't take away.

But to know there are so many archaeological finds and

manuscript proofs that cooperate what we believe is is really

incredible. That's that's kind of my.

Yeah, that was, that was huge for me coming back into church

because I think apologetics did a lot more.

There was just a lot that I was finding.

One thing that really struck me just on the note that I've I've

found fascinating because like you said, if you speak to people

that are, you know, professing atheists or whatever, their

biggest thing is proof, wanting to see proof and all.

And you don't have physical proof of God because it is a

faith thing, you know, But then when you look at manuscripts,

when you look at archaeology and all of that comes together with

prophecy was one thing that blew my mind.

Like in Revelations, there's this one dude talking about it.

The temple stones that John, I don't Have you ever heard this

about the temple stones? Maybe, but maybe.

Yeah, I'll proceed. I can hear it again.

So in the In the Prophecy of the New Temple, John lays out the

the 12 Stones that are that are on the temple steps right in

order going down at all. And then he emits like diamonds

and a few others. There's like 4 stones that he

emits that aren't a part of that.

Well, you come to find out when you put those stones that were

used in his description of the temple under direct light, like

an LED light, they shine and they glimmer.

Whereas diamonds, if you put them under a direct light like

LED or anything, they'll turn black completely.

So the stones that are used in the New Temple, in the New

Jerusalem, right after this whole world is over, they're the

1 stones that will radiate when under direct light.

And that was crazy to me because back in the day they didn't have

access to that. That's nothing he would have

known. It's, it's that that could only

be some sort of revelation. And the biggest argument to that

a lot of atheists get into is that it's a story that was

fabricated after the fact, right?

And when you get into prophecy, stuff like that, I like seeing

that because I'm like, even those people 500 years say that

people just wrote a story 500 years after Jesus.

They wouldn't even have that knowledge.

You wouldn't have had that knowledge until well into our

time right now. Little stuff like that.

Yeah, it it it really does. It helps me at least I.

Like the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls because exactly what

you're saying some of the messianic prophecies oh that was

just written after the fact. But when they discovered this

library of manuscripts and ancient writings, that was pre

Jesus, So you know that that shows you right there that the

prophecies are true. It wasn't written after the

fact. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I could get into

that all day long prophecies and stuff because like, like my

favorite, my favorite one, when you talk about that, I mean,

well, a lot of people, you know, they're like, well, we, we don't

want to get into the prophecies of Revelation just because no

one really knows. And this that and the other.

And I'm like, that's true. But there's a lot in there that

we can dissect and look at. And there are some very, very

coincidental, like very close to stuff.

Like nowadays, like when they describe like stars falling from

the sky. It's like back then, if I saw,

if I'm sure, if John saw a a marvelous light streaking out of

the sky towards the Earth. Yeah, it looks like a star.

But today we're like, oh, we know what?

There's rockets or I, I forget what it was called, but the

locusts that have steel breast plates and they look like men in

the face and they have the Stinger on the back and they're,

that's, they're loud. That's what he was referencing.

And you're like an insect. That's crazy.

But then you think about it, it's like, well, we have Apache

helicopter that they draw the face of a man on the front of

it. It has the back end of it that

looks like a Stinger. Those things are incredibly loud

and it's covered with an iron breast plate or what you would

look like an iron breast plate. So that, that stuff there, it's

like, I could talk about that all day long getting, getting

into prophecies and stuff. But I, I just, I just love

seeing things like 'cause, 'cause that's the big narrative

today is, is that there was no Israel, right?

Like that was all just story. It was always a certain subsex

land. It's their history.

All that other stuff wasn't real.

There was no King David da da da da.

And it's like, if that were the case, why are we like so adamant

that we can't do these archaeological like digs where

these things are supposedly at? And when we find homes and roads

and cisterns and jewelry and all that, that's like clearly

evident to that time frame. It just, it just solidifies that

one thing is true and another one clearly is not because it is

the exact opposite of it. You know what I mean?

So it's like that stuff to me is just as a ministry all on its

own, especially for people who are of that like show me kind of

mindset. Those Missourians out there, you

know, show me. Yeah, I'm with you.

And I think it's important period in building your faith

personally and then also being able to reach a different class

of people and in Huntsville specifically, very educated

territory. You I don't know, I'm sure you

can reach people on feeling and faith alone in some capacities.

But at the same stroke, we generally reach out to God when

things are going bad. You know, that's when people are

emotional wanting to reach out to God.

I think you've got a good opportunity here if you really

hound in and study to so show yourself approved.

I think it's a great opportunity to reach the people in this city

specifically by by diving in. And even the people that I've

spoken to that are these green personality mindsets and it end

up, you know, falling away where kind of the witness opportunity

kind of seems like it's has closing.

But like you said, at some point in the future when they have

some sort of emotional loss or something and they are looking

for what is out there that's more than me, then they can

think back and and have that person of contact.

I'm with you and I think that matters too, man.

I I, I, I'm repeating myself from a former podcast, but that

when I was in church and young, it was all about life gate.

It was like, oh, get people here, you know, and not that

it's not now, if you will. Of course, everybody in Madison

can come to life gate. We'll have to buy a different

building and all, but that's always a a desire.

But the biggest thing, like you said, wherever you reach people,

if you can just plant a little bit of a seed, it doesn't matter

if they're in Washington state, if they're in Florida, wherever,

it's about the Kingdom of God and being able to plant those

seeds and the opportunity that we have being vigilant too.

Yeah, there's a person that I reached out to, her name's

Shawna, and she actually lives in Michigan.

I was going to ask you about this too, by the way.

He's talking about people from other states, but I just want to

go on the story now or. Yeah, go ahead.

This is a really cool story. So I was watching this video

Amber sent me of Indiana Bible College had come out with a song

that kind of had some viral hits and was kind of making the

rounds. And she was like, check this

video out. Or it was a reaction video of

people who are not in church who are watching this video.

And they're like, man, these people have something.

There's really just something different with with this group.

And of course, anytime you watch a video, you get a well, if you

like that video, then watch this video, which led me to a

reaction video from a YouTube who was reacting to another

Indiana Bible college song. What a God and it was one of IBC

songs this last recording. Love that song.

Fantastic song, love. It.

And she was watching the video and at the end when I kind of

got into towards the end and it slowed down a bit, she just

began to weep. And I just felt, I felt the pain

through watching her. And I was like, I recognize that

pain, you know, I recognize that.

And I just was drawn to her and it's completely crazy outside of

my norm. I'm not a very outgoing person

in general. And definitely this was out of

my outside of my comfort zone. But I reached out to her on

Facebook because I didn't want to write anything on YouTube in

a public setting. It just seemed awkward.

So I found her on Facebook. I reached out and I said, hey, a

lot of people on YouTube are saying you should go visit the

next recording. And I completely agree with you.

But that's a year away because they had just done the

recording. And I said, but if you're

looking for the atmosphere in the presence of God that you

felt in that video, you will fill it at NAYCI said NAYC is

happening in Indianapolis, IN, which is the hometown of Indiana

Bible College. Perhaps we'll have some of the

same singers involved. I said, but you will feel that

Spirit of God there. And I said I didn't know she was

from Michigan at this point. And I said, if you want to make

it to NAYC, let us know. We'll we'll make sure that you

get there somehow. And I said, you know, I'm a

stranger. This is complete crazy.

Here's my church website. You know I'm a real person.

Yeah, you. Know my first thought is all

right, he's going to ask for my bank account information.

Soon, give me your Social Security number.

But she reached out and she said I would absolutely love to come.

And she said, you know, let me know if if you can make it

happen at that time because the way NYC has done, the tickets

are sold ahead of time. So I reached out to Lexi, our

youth leader, and she said well, couple people backed out.

So there's a couple tickets. Just let me make sure pastor's

OK with it because he had offered them to some other

people. Long story short, she came, she

flew from Michigan, she stayed in the hotel right next to our

church group hotel. And then we picked her up every

service and she got re baptized on Thursday mornings service and

then she got the Holy Ghost on Friday night service.

That's. Awesome.

Yeah, I love that and so. But props to you 'cause like,

honestly haven't known you all this time.

That's super out of character. It is, yeah.

You're not a approach strangers type of guy.

No, no, I have a hard time not talking to people I know so.

Yeah, but what kind of feeling does that have to to know that,

you know, you took that step and because you took that step,

somebody was able to experience that and get the Holy Ghost and

get baptized and and essentially get saved like and that's

because you took that step. So prop to you that's that's got

to be a great. Feeling it is a pretty

incredible feeling. And it was really cool when my

daughter Bella, at one point, I forget when it was, but she was

like, Dad, if you didn't reach out to her, she might not have

got the Holy Ghost. That's really cool.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that is really cool.

Was I was like and if whatever she does in her life will be a

result of me stepping out in faith and how that domino effect

can just change generations. I think one of the interviews

you did, you're talking about that generational effect.

Oh yeah. So that was really incredible.

And not to spoil her news, but she's actually moving to Alabama

in February. So she's going to, she's going

to be joining Lifegate. That's awesome.

Yeah. She said, and this was really

incredible too. She she went back after NYC and

she said, and we've been doing Bible studies every other week

since then. And she said I just, she said, I

love my church, but I just can't keep going there because I feel

like they're just asleep. And she's like, I feel like God

wants me to start over somewhere where I can be a part of a

church that has what I felt there.

And so she visited a while back, a couple months during the Lynx

sessions. Yeah, she visited and and then

she just let me know recently, me and Amber, that she was

moving here in February, so. That's awesome.

Look at look at Lifegate, man. We're getting, we're getting new

converts and new people in and we're not even just, we're not

even staying in Madison. We're going all the way up to

the great white N to get them. Yeah, that's the, that may be

the record for the longest, longest distance.

Yeah, between the new member. That's the way to go, Eric.

That's, yeah. I love that story.

He told that story during the link, during the link sessions

when she was here. She kind of told a little bit of

it too. And I, I was like, that's

awesome. That's just, that's really

incredible to be able to have that faith and see it pay off

like that. Yeah.

Definitely makes me want to step out more 'cause I'm like, you

know, I took that step of faith. I was super awkward, but look

what it led to. So it's kind of boosted my

confidence too, when I feel that again, not to just, you know,

let it subside, but you could change someone's life.

So Oh yeah, take that step. John Ford talked about that,

that that feeling, you know, and like trust in that when you

really feel something going after it and I it makes you

reflect differently to, you know, like even everyday

interactions. But you know, definitely, I

think all of us can learn from that, especially take that leap

of faith because you never know what Christ can do through us if

we just take that little bit of a chance of maybe being awkward,

maybe getting shot down, you know?

Yep, absolutely. Which is, which is.

I mean, that's, that's very it's, it's, I mean, it's kind of

redundant to say Christ like, but I mean, if you really think

about it, like when when Jesus was walking the earth, I mean,

how many times did he just decide like, Oh, I'm going to go

here and do this. And everybody around him is

like, why, yeah, like this makes no sense.

We're going out of our way. The Samaritan woman, perfect

example. They're all like, we, we don't,

why would we go through this area?

Why would we're, we're literally just taking a random detour and

they have no, no reason why. Like, why are we doing this?

But he's he God is just so thinking so far ahead that he's

just like, I'm going to get that from A to B, but I can meet this

person on my way there. And it's just so spur of the

moment and it's just so time like to us, it's just random.

But I'm sure to from from heaven's perspective, it's just

purposely fine-tuned and and maticulated and just put

together perfectly to where it, the timing is just perfect.

And to us, it's just like random, like it's just

incredible how all that works. And it's incredibly, incredibly

humbling to to get that, you know, get that feeling to hey,

reach out that that God would, would use me to reach someone's

life and their whole life is going to be changed because of

that step of faith. Yeah.

So let's, let's, let's hear a little bit about you, man.

Tell, tell me where you're from. Your, your growing up.

Were you born into this faith or, or did you find it?

From originally from Indiana, grew up in Indiana from a little

small community called Quincy. IN anybody who ever asked me

where I live, I say Indiana's basically nothing but cornfields

to drive out in the middle of nowhere in the cornfields.

And then once you're in the middle of nowhere, go 5 more

miles. And then that's where Quincy is.

And it was basically just one giant circle Rd. with the houses

on the inside and outside and everybody knew everybody.

Not definitely not an affluent area.

Two of my neighbors didn't even have running water.

It was so far out there that we didn't even have St. addresses.

We everybody had put post office boxes.

And so since it was called, we called it the block.

And since we were on the backstreet of the block, we just

called it backstreet. But it wasn't until I was

probably 8 or 9 where we actually had St.

St. addresses. So you were a?

Backstreet. That was a Backstreet Boy.

Yeah, Ted Board. Ted Board loves that.

But we lived in that. We didn't have much.

We lived in a house that was over 200 years old.

I remember there were holes in the walls and we would duct

tape, we would duct tape the holes with cardboard, try to

keep the bugs out, which didn't work.

And there was always, it was always infested with bugs and

spiders. And we had a snake get in the

house one time and there was bats that I got in the house.

We had mice all the time. I vividly remember my dad

sitting in a chair in the kitchen with mouse traps with a

BB gun and shooting mice because it was just, they were always.

And it was the house is horrible, but and looking back,

you know, I see I had both parents, I was healthy, but, and

so I'm not saying I had the worst childhood in the world,

but when you're a kid, all you see is what you don't have.

You don't really see what you do have.

And so most of my childhood, all I remember was just being in

poverty, like very bad poverty. Family of six, single income.

I was the youngest of four kids, two older brothers and oldest is

a sister. So I had the hand me downs of

the hand me downs. And when there was really hard

times where we would share milk, my brother would eat his cereal

and then I would get his leftover milk.

And, and because we just, we were so poor and there were

times we ate ketchup sandwiches, which my mom would hate to hear

me say that, but she probably won't listen to this.

It doesn't matter. But we were very, very, very

poor. And but I was raised in church,

so I was one third generation Pentecost.

My grandmother on my mother's side was introduced to this

belief by a door knocker. Somebody he was door knocking

actually offended her with what they had said.

And my grandma said she slammed the door in the person's face.

But what they had said bothered her so much that she got out her

by 1 and she started praying to God.

If I if I'm missing something, show me and and Long story

short, you know she's the kind of the patriarch of our family's

faith and she's the greatest prayer warrior of I've ever

known. She's going on to be with the

Lord now, but third generation I even though I was raised in

church, though I have somewhat of a different story than most

because my parents never would stay at the same place too long.

And so by the time I was 16, we had changed churches 14

different times. And so it was very, very hard.

You'd make friends at one place and then for whatever reason,

you would, we would quit that church and we'd go start over

somewhere else. And so by the time it was me and

my older brother Jason, the two youngest, we just kind of became

indifferent to the new churches and kind of bitter at the whole

cycle. And so when it got finally to

me, all of my, both my brothers and my sister both went all

different churches across the state where, wherever they

lived. And when I was turned 16 and got

my car and got my job, I, that's when I stopped switching with my

parents and I called Emmanuel Apostolic in Martinsville IN my

home church. And we actually went there on 2

separate occasions there when I was younger.

There's a different pastor and, and they did around too, 'cause

there's another pastor and, but, but yeah, third generation

actually. And another thing that's an

important part of my story is I finished high school living with

another family. And actually all three of us

boys moved out before we were out of high school for family

reasons, internal family reasons.

And so I actually finished high school living with a family

called the Williams family. And they were like a second

family to me and my brother, my brother Jason actually lived

there when he left home. And and then when I left, my

parents moved to Tennessee. But I finished high school

living with them. And so I was.

And the reason I say that is because it was during this time

where I almost turned away from God completely because I was a

teenage boy, which is already hard enough time to stay in

church on its own. But I was living with a family

who themselves didn't even go to church at all.

My brothers and my sister all went to different churches in

that in separate parts of the state.

And I was still going faithfully to church.

I was making myself go, but I was working a lot and because I

was trying to support myself and the family had helped me file a

court case to get emancipation from my parents.

And I ultimately was denied that, but I still lived with

them anyway. And so I I was going through a

lot of stuff at that time that made me kind of drift away from

God. And I started sitting at the

back at church, becoming very disengaged and not going to the

altar anymore. I was working a lot.

So I stopped going to youth events because, you know, when

you're a teenager and you're working, that's the most

important thing in your life. And so I started to drift away

from God. And I felt like I was getting

angry because I felt like the sermons, every sermon was

towards me, felt like it was pleading to me, drawing towards

me. And on the inside I was really

convicted, but on the outside I was very cold and unaffected and

unmoved. And I was about just to be done

with church all together. And my sister who always kind of

looked out for me all and looked out for my brothers.

And she was trying to convince me to go to church, to church

camp. Indiana UPC has a Fourville

church camp up north. And I hadn't went the previous

year because I was had my job and teenagers think that their

job is the most important and like who would who would refill

the horsey pumps at Arby's if I didn't go to work this week?

So but she kept harassing me to go because she knew I was

struggling spiritually. And I didn't go Monday, Tuesday,

Wednesday, Thursday, and finally, finally Friday came and

she was just the way I remember just kind of harassing me, like

just go. And she was always really good

to me and looked out for me. So I don't want to hurt her

feelings. And really just to get off the

phone, I said yes. So I went to Four Girl Camp and

it was like an hour and 45 minute drive from where I lived.

And I remember the conversation I was having with myself driving

up there like it was yesterday. And I was saying out loud in the

car to myself, probably to convince myself what I was

saying was true. But I was like, you know, this

is old and antiquated and, you know, I'm tired of being

preached at and I just want to live my life.

And, you know, these people are all crazy.

And I just, I'm done with this. And I said the statement, this

will be the last service I ever attend and I'm done.

And so I got to the church camp and was very disengaged

throughout the worship service. And and then Brother Doug White,

who has preached some of the men's conferences around here,

got up and preached a message titled The Echoes of My Sermons.

And he was talking about how he saw the echoes of all his

sermons through the lives of the people he's ministered to.

And he talked, he kind of ended the sermon with this one young

man in his church who sadly had taken his own life.

And he said that he and the mother found the boy in his room

after he's taking his life and he was laying over a box of

preaching tapes. And he said, and he ended the

service like this. He said, and if you walk out of

this service tonight and you never come back to church, how

many of your pastors sermons will echo in your eternity?

And I, man, I was, I was fighting and I was, I was

standing because everybody was standing.

He was closing the service. I was white knuckling the seat

in front of me, face facing down, tears streaming down my

face. And he brother White called me

out at church camp. And you can hear it on the

record. I have the recording on my

phone. I still have the message.

I listen to it every once in awhile.

But he said, young man, I see you in the back weeping and

you're not a camper this year, but God's trying to move you.

God wants to move you. And I broke it.

It distill obviously affects me today, but I broke and I served

in my life that day. And it was that service.

That's my like determining service where my walk with God

stopped being something that I was raised in and became my

foundational stance of I'm going to serve God.

And that's kind of when I, when I, when I kind of corrected my

path there made it real. That that's it That's, that

brings up a thought to me where you see it a lot and you see it

a lot with people nowadays that this is how it was for me.

We, we the Bible talks about, you know, new converts and it

almost likens them, likens them to children, you know, with,

hey, they eat milk and cookies, you know, little things.

And then you as you grow you, you can take in more.

But it reminds me of like how it is for so many people where

obviously your situation is a little different, but still a

little similar where you just, you have so many people where

you, you believe in it. Like like for me, when I first,

when I first got in this, like in my head, I was sold out.

But at the same time it was more of like this mindset of how

great that was a great feeling. But now I don't, I'm not really

wanting to change anything. And, and you're just that fresh

face and you, you're, you're not, in my opinion, I was not

like sold out like I thought I was.

But then you have that service or you have that, that thing

happened that, that where God touches you.

And this is not a, oh, I'm getting the Holy Ghost at this

point. Like you're already, this is a,

a moment in time where it's almost like God just like gets

real with you and says, OK, it's time to take the training wheels

off. And this has to be, you have to

decide you're going to sell out to this.

So I think that's really cool. And I, I, I feel like you might,

I, I, it sounds to me like it was kind of how that was like,

you know, you were obviously like done with it, but just how

many people are at that point? You know, where you, you know

it, you know about it and you think, you think you're in it

or, or you're trying to decide or whatever the case may be.

And then you just, you have that moment where it's like God gets

real personal with you in a way that you just, you're not ready

for it and you never forget it. What a landmark man that and I

think that's important. You saying you still got it on

your phone too, because I think it's super important, man.

We've all been in low, low spots before where God reached down

each of us walking in here, I think and similar to the the

children of Israel when Joshua had them set up the stones, you

know, I think it's really important to not forget that

either. It says a lot that you still got

that on your phone and still revisit everything.

And then I listen. To it this week because I was

trying to remind myself of things, you know, Yeah.

In preparation for this, I was like, I got to listen to that

sermon again. Yeah.

No, that's great. That's great.

Converted from ACD. Oh, look at that ancient

technology. Yeah, yeah.

Now it's, it's important, I think holding on to that.

But what a story too, man. Yeah, it always, it always moves

me again because it's such a phenomenal, a phenomenal just

dedication, like foundational change, like my life path

changed that day. So it's very, it's a, it's a

stone. It's my stones.

You know, it's, it's something I always can look back to and it

moves me every time I tell that. Yeah, Oh yeah, man, you got to

think about the same God who the earth is.

His footstool doesn't need us at all.

Formed us from the earth, looks down, knows the thoughts you're

thinking, hears you and decides you know what I'm going to

today? I'm personally going to visit

you and I'm going to pick you up and change your life.

Had had no reason to do so for any of us but for that feeling

you know you had. It's like he had no, God doesn't

need us. There's there's the fact that he

goes out of his way to get us when we're the ones who should

be going out of our ways to get him.

That's just so incredible. That's that that did a lot for

me too, because I think I've reached the point of being

agnostic where it's like, if there is a God, he really don't

care about us, you know, And then you see time and time again

where the, the, the story of Jesus coming down here to die

for our sins. And, and when you put it in a in

a personal perspective, and I, I've been trying to do that with

my voice, like it's not, Oh, Jesus died for all of our sins,

right, Because that's good. And that's, that's the message.

But thinking about he also came down here just for you, you

know, and he came down here for you to be white knuckling that

Pew back there and then Reverend Doug White call you out.

And then that be a landstone, which leads to Shawna, right?

Oh, absolutely. Exactly.

True. Without that moment there, and I

just look at it, even if it's just two souls, because the

Bible says when one soul converts and one soul comes to

Christ, that all of heaven rejoices.

And right there in the story, I feel like we've got 2 off of

that one moment, you know? Absolutely.

And I and like I said, I wasn't even a camper.

And so the God would would move on him to preach a message.

I mean, of course it was obviously for other, other

people, but that message was to me.

Yeah, that was for you. Yeah, Yeah.

Other people got something from out of that was for you.

And then a white knuckling, he's like, young man, I see you in

the back and I'm like, all right.

What's the what's the conversation like with your

sister when you when that service ends, when you're like

over like you're fighting her to go and now you're like, thank

God I went, thank God that you begged me.

What's that conversation like? She.

Was very, she was very, very good to me.

She was kind of a a parental figure because I had some family

issues, but she was she looked out for me.

So I mean, she's, she's never like said anything like, oh,

it's because of me, you know, but I'm thankful for her.

She's always been a person that I can look up to.

In a way it is because of her, so absolutely you should be

grateful. Have you ever told her that

straight? Up Amy.

I'm grateful. There you go.

Exactly. Amy, if you're out there and

you're listening right now, Eric is grateful.

And it's because of, you know. Her name now we'll find her.

He found he found the can't be that Sean on Facebook me and

Colby can find her. On Facebook, Amy.

You need to listen to this. Clip He's on there.

That looks like bless your heart.

Yeah, and I think something sticks out to me too.

I've seen it in our our church plant work as well.

A lot of kids that grow up in and I don't want to put any any,

any labels on whatever your home situation, but tumultuous at

least. Like it feels tumultuous, you

know, from church to church, all that stuff, not as steady as

could be, to say the least. I, I've seen a lot of people in

that situation that like you, you take it out on God's own.

Like if your parents are professing Christians and then

your upbringing isn't the greatest.

A lot of times it's easy to turn on God because of that and say,

no, obviously whatever they were doing was wrong.

So I'm just going to live my life.

I think that was a big moment for you.

But also, I think you said that you're everybody else attends

church, right? All of your siblings.

Yeah, they all, they all attend church.

Yeah, yeah. That's my brother, actually.

My my brother Jason actually pastors at church now.

Wow. So yeah.

That's awesome. That's awesome.

Pastors at church in Georgia. Fantastic.

And my brother Randy and my sister Amy, they both still live

back in Indiana. OK, I got.

You, isn't it? That's kind of a kind of a deep

topic to think about how many parents think that they are

doing the best thing by their child and they probably are, but

they can't. It's just you know, and I'm I'm

sure it's it's a super common thing.

The amount of parents who who think that they're doing

everything right by their child, but don't realize the just

getting on a kids level and the way that kids see it, or even

preteens and teens and and by not by just it becomes it can

become a blind spot. But I mean, like I would say the

most attacked generation or not, I want to say generation sect of

people is, is the younger people.

Is, is those teenagers in those preteens.

I mean, they get, they get we, we, we tease them by saying

they're immature or they don't understand.

And when they grow up, they'll get it and da da, da, da.

But like we say that, but obviously you, you have a force

that takes advantage of that and, and just pounds on them and

messes with them in a way to where like parents just, I think

sometimes their kids can become their own blind spot, but they

think that they're doing everything right.

And they just don't realize that like their kids are going

through things or maybe dealing with things.

And it's, I hate that it's that way that younger people are

attacked in that kind of way that you go through so much at

that age. I've seen it a lot where that

happens. You know, it just, it strikes a

chord with me even thinking about that message where a young

man takes his own life and the parents are downstairs and they

have no idea. They think they they think their

son or their child is up there. Doing whatever and, and you have

no idea what, what your kids are going through.

And it's just it to me, that's just, it's a touchy subject for

me. That's where I will start to get

a little, a little emotional just because I just I, it's not

fair. It's not fair that, you know,

you live in a world where our children are not off limits.

They're they're like prime targets for us.

And but that's like, like I tell Brooke all the time, like that's

one thing for me. Like as as Braden gets older,

I'm like, I don't care how what age he is, I'm going to

prioritize getting on his level as much as I can because I, I

want to do everything I can to make sure that I don't fall

asleep at the wheel while my son might be getting attacked.

You know, if, if that makes any sense at all.

You know what I mean? Just.

And stuff. It's a huge responsibility.

We're we're a little further away from his stage of life with

his kids. You got a teenager, huh?

Yeah, 15, She's got a learner's permit.

Not Saturday. She's got a learner's permit.

Congratulations, you say this is this is totally off topic and

not spiritual, but kids today don't seem to want to drive.

So I'm very happy she went out and got a learner's permit

because for whatever reason, I remember I was 15 and I'm like,

let's go that day. It was like a Sunday, so we

couldn't. And I'm like as soon as the

office is open. I borrowed money from my grandpa

so I could take driver's Ed so I could get my license as soon as.

Exactly. I don't know.

And I got a job the day I turned 16 there.

Yeah. There you go.

I was ready to go, but yeah, they got it too good.

They just don't want to. Leave No, that's what it is.

We're too soft. See, we, we grew up having to,

to get told no and, and work for our own stuff.

And so we, we didn't want that for our kids and now they're

just too soft that that must be what it is.

We've made too good of a life for them or not.

Not me with my five and four year old, but we'll, we'll see

in time. So on the 16 been working.

You've been working ever since, I suppose.

Huh. 16 got out the house started working.

Yeah, I started working at 16 at Arby's in high school and I

worked every chance I could get. And and then I even graduated

high school early, graduated after the first trimester so

that I could work more because I was quasi support myself.

I was living with the other family and they didn't charge me

rent, but you know, everything else I was paying for.

So I was working a lot. And that's kind of probably

where a lot of my drive and motivation comes to better

myself is I had to hustle, you know, I had to, I had to make my

own way, so. Which I, I think overall in life

period, we talk about trials, we'll go through spiritually,

but then even just in, in life like that, the struggle, I mean,

you, and I'm not going to talk on, on your whole life, but you

have you, you've made a very successful life for yourself.

And I think you go back to 16. I think 16 year old Eric would

be insanely impressed with Eric right now. 16 year old Eric

would say that if you told If you told 16 year old where I am

today, Eric at 16 would laugh at you.

What about Eric that had the cardboard floors?

Man, hopeful. Yeah, that kid would be hopeful.

Get out of this. Yeah.

I'm not going to, I'm not going to ask you to go through your

whole life story, but obviously you're very involved with the

ministry now, as you mentioned earlier, you, you taught a Bible

study here. You're very, very involved.

Where at what was there a point in time where you, you made a

decision to dedicate yourself to the Lord in general?

Was there a point in time where you had made that decision that

you weren't going to just be a everyday churchgoer and that you

were going to be more and you were going to be more used?

Was there a time where you just like you made that decision and

what might have led to that when you got to that decision?

I. Don't know if there is an exact

event that made me start to be involved rather than just

attend, you know, on a regular basis.

But my parents weren't super involved as far as like, you

know, my kids complain all the time that we're always at the

church. You know, we're all, they're

like we're the last ones to leave on Wednesday.

So it was never like that when I was growing up.

So I, I didn't get it from, from them per SE, but when I, when

Amber got in church and we eventually got married, we just

weren't, we just got involved in a lot of things.

I think I looked at my pastor in Indiana as like a, a father

figure and, you know, I just wanted to do anything that I was

asked to do. So I got involved playing the

drums. I played the drums at Emmanuel

for five years straight as the only drummer.

Colby has no idea what that's like.

Yeah, so, and then my, my wife taught Sunday school there and

we were on the church cleaning schedule for a long time.

And we were involved in choir and I sang when there were more

drummers I would sing with like the praise team and they they

did solo. So I pretty much did anything I

was asked to do just because I wanted to.

I don't know, I just wanted to be involved.

How? How old were you when you got

married? I was 20, Amber was 18.

Dear Lord. So, yeah, we got married really

young and of course, I would not suggest that to anybody, but it

worked for us. Yeah.

So I met Amber in high school. She went to the same school as

me. She was a grade below me and I

met her actually through my friend.

My best friend was dating her. We're no longer friends.

Yeah, and at Jessie's girl situation.

And he, he. Won.

Yeah, I did. Yeah, He introduced me to her

and I was just kind of like. As his girlfriend.

Yeah, looking at her and looking at him and I was like, how in

the world did you get this girl? Because of course she's

gorgeous, so. But and the the way this all

worked out was not because I'm a horrible person and I stole my

best friend's girlfriend, but because my main ploy to get

people to end school to come to church was I would say, hey,

come hear me play the drums. And I got a lot of people to

come. And so I had said it to him at

one point and she was there and he just flower said, Nah, church

isn't for me. And she was like, well, he's

your best friend. You should go here and play the

drums. She just support him and I think

trying to force him to say yes, she said, well, if you don't go,

then I'll go. And instead of him being like,

OK, I'll go. He was just like, fine, go.

Wow. And she was like, oh, all right.

So then I, she asked me to pick her up.

And so I took her to church and she was attending a Baptist

Church at the time. She's originally a Baptist and

she attended the church and she really liked it.

And she said that she felt something in our church that she

didn't feel at her church. So she wanted to keep attending,

keep visiting. And then she asked me, you know,

hey, if I'm going to visit your church, you visit my church.

So that was the first time I, I visited her church a couple

times. And like I had said, I'd been to

a lot of different churches, but they were all Apostolic

Pentecostal churches. So this was the first time I've

ever been to one that was not and it was very eye opening to

me because you don't realize what you have until you see

someone who doesn't have it. And so when I was in this church

and the Spirit of God, it was just absent.

It just was not there. The singing wasn't once it

anointed. They're just like it was so

empty. And I'm not saying that to be

me. I just, I was, it's very, it was

very eye opening, man. What keeps them coming back?

Because you just, there's nothing here.

And, and she felt it too. And so she just started coming

to my church more and hers less until finally we were on the

phone one night and this topic came up.

You know, why is there a difference?

Why, why do I feel this at your church and not mine?

And then we started again to what differences there were

because up until that point, I think she just thought we, we

believe the same thing. And and so it kind of got tense

on the phone a little bit and the call didn't end very well

like it would. Even though she's never changed.

It kind of, you know, in a, in a lot of times it can turn into

oh, you're so you're saying that blah, blah, blah.

You know, yeah, yeah. And I'm like eventually I'm not

saying anybody saved or not. I'm not God, that's not, I have

no right to say that. What I, what I can say is here's

what the Bible says we need to do for salvation and I want to

be saved. And so more so than what I've

been raised to believe, more so than what I've been taught what

I believe, it doesn't really matter.

It's this is what matters. And so the, the conversation

ended very tense, but then she called me the next day.

I was at work and she called me. I answered the phone and she

said I got the Holy Ghost what? And I and I said and I was the

exact same reaction because it was the middle of the day and I

was like what? And she goes, I got the Holy

Ghost and I spoke in tons and I said what, when, where, how?

And she said I had a dream last night after I think it was the

next night. And she said I had a dream that

I found myself in hell. And it scared me so bad that

when she woke up, she started praying.

She was at home alone in her living room.

She got the Bible out and she kind of somewhat to what my

grandma went through. She's like if I'm missing

something show me. And she had a little prayer

meeting in her own living room, and she got the Holy Ghost in

her living room. That's insane.

And how? Old would she have been in time

1718? She was 17.

Yeah, and. She just decided that's insane.

She just decided to whip a a Bible out and then pray until

she got the. Oh man, you have some, you have

some nightmares, man, when you wake up and that is sweat, dude,

that is true. You got a you got a pose in her

shoes. I'd be like.

And so she was 17 when that all happened.

I proposed to her on her birthday of 2007, March of 2007

and then we were married. March of 2007.

Yeah, we've been married for 18 years.

That's. Crazy dude.

And so she 12 years old, we got married.

We got married on July July 7th of 2007.

So she got the Holy Ghost at 17 between her junior and senior

year. So when she went back to school,

she was completely changed. And so, I mean, that's her

testimony. Yeah.

But yeah, we got married in 2007, and we kept going to

Emmanuel Apostolic EAC Pastor Mark Abernathy from the time I

was 16. She got in a church.

We got married. We went to that same church

until we moved to Alabama six years ago.

And we got married in that church.

Our kids were born in that church.

My both of my kids were dedicated in that church.

Pastor Mark Abernathy is a a huge pillar in my my upbringing.

Yeah, so obviously. You left Indiana with fond

feelings of yeah, what brought you to Alabama?

So in two. 1008 the housing market crashed.

I had just got married and I was doing at the time doing windows

and doors, residential windows and doors, and I was paid peace

rate. So I got paid based on what I

put in. So the more I installed, the

more I can make. But also if there's no work to

do, there's there's no pay. So in 2008, I had a really good

year. The housing market crashed, but

the recession hadn't really kicked in yet.

In 2009, I lost 50% of what I had made in 2008.

And then in 2010, I had lost like 30% of what I made in 2009.

So in a two year span of time, I lost 65% roughly of my income.

And that'll devastate anybody. Amber was, Amber had a, a

scholarship, so she was going to school.

So she was, I was, it was just me working and losing that much

income in that amount of time. And I was also young and dumb

and we made some stupid financial decisions.

So I was kind of staged myself to make it worse.

And so I ended up defaulting on a big student private student

loan I had taken out that I didn't even use on school.

And I defaulted on some credit cards and got sued over my

student loan and got taken to court and sued over one of the

credit cards and taken to court. And I eventually quit the job

just because I just couldn't make.

There was nobody buying like remodeling industry was really

hit. Yeah.

So I eventually quit that job and got a job at ALDI

Distribution. It was the only place I could

find a job at and I was making basically nothing.

And I was getting sued by these companies and I had wages

garnished. And we, I mean, it was just a

very hard financial time in our life.

And it was for years from 2009 basically up until we moved to

Alabama six years ago. And so I got in this huge hole

of debt and we had sold everything that we had that

wasn't pretty much necessary. And we had our electricity shut

off. And Bella was, she was born in

2010. That year we had our electricity

shut off in the middle of winter.

And then I was behind. I was behind on everything,

behind on the rent. They were garnishing my wages,

which are already weren't enough to support us.

We ended up having to move out of our apartment and move in

with my wife's father, who was an alcoholic.

And so it was not only humiliating, but it was not a

great environment either. And so now we're living back in

our hometown. I can't find a job anywhere.

I got fired from the auto distribution center because I

was one minute late and three minutes late within a 90 day

period of time clocking in and they had a 0 talents policy.

So when I clocked in late the second time in a 90 day period

of time they just said they just walked me out and it was the

worst of the recession. I mean unemployment was at its

highest rate since the Great Depression.

And I had a plot I was just applying in this late to jobs

and it got even worse once we moved in with my father-in-law.

My wife's car was repossessed twice and same car, same car

twice. So it's actually a funny story.

They repossessed it once and so when we were laid on it again,

they threatened to repossess it. So we started, Amber's going to

hate that that's we started hiding the car in my in her

grandpa's barn because he lived next door.

But they repossessed it anyway and they just called it an

unclaimed repossessed because they couldn't find the car.

But they still charged us all the money.

So. But yeah, it was a horrible

time. Financially.

We just kept getting into a deeper and deeper hole.

Amber at this time was still in school, so she was working part

time as much as she could. But basically we dug into this

massive financial hole and many times we didn't have any before

we moved into the following law. We there mean times we didn't

have food in in the house and only enough gas to get to

church, but not enough gas to get back.

And God always made a way. But kind of what turned the tide

kind of started the recovery was and this is a funny story too,

but I was home alone with Bella and Amber was at school and the

700 Club had come on the TV in the living room and I don't sit

around watching 700 club and I don't even know if you know what

that is. It's really old, old people

show, but it's a religious program.

And what caught my attention was this lady on on the show saying

that she had lost her corporate job.

And you know, she was like me applying to just anything at

this point. She just couldn't find a job and

she was just trying to get anything.

And I was too. I'd applied to just endless

amount of things and, and to the point where I've completely lost

of all my pride. Like I'm back in my hometown and

I'm applying to I'm, I'm, I have a child now and I'm applying to

fast food restaurants and janitors and gas stations and

nobody will hire me. Like gas stations won't hire me.

Like nobody's calling. And so she said that God kept

impressing on her that you're a child of the king and King's

children don't beg. And so I sit there and I, you

know, I watched the program and, and she said, so I made a list

of everything that I wanted in a job.

And she said she wasn't being unreasonable.

She knew what her experience was.

So she wasn't being like lofty, but she's like, I put everything

that I wanted in that job. Just started praying like, God,

I am a child of the king and King's children don't beg.

And here's what I'm asking you to open the door.

And she got a interview and a job offering that checked every

line on that paper. So I did the same thing.

And Amber came home from school and I was like, hey, I saw this

episode of 700 Club. Pat Robertson And so I made a

list of everything I wanted in a job and we put it on the bedroom

door and we were praying over every every day and, and, and

night, you know, God open a door because I'm a child of the king

too. And I told Amber, I said, this

month I've applied to over 100 places and I said that only one

of them is 1 I would actually want.

And it was for an entry level IT position at an Internet service

provider. And I said, but it's, they want

a degree. I don't have a degree, I'm not

qualified for it, but I was like, I think I would actually

enjoy that job. So couple days probably.

I forget what the time frame was, but I got a phone call, not

from the janitor, not from the fast food.

Of all the, the, the most unqualified position that I

applied for is the one that called me.

And she said, are you still interested in this position?

And I said, I, I'm very interested.

I could, I could come interview today.

And she was kind of giggled and she's like, well, it's like

3:00, so you'd have to be here by 3:30.

And I said, I can go out the door right now.

And she said, OK, well, come on. And so I interviewed with the

boss, the manager of the place, and she said, I, you don't have

a degree. And I was like, no, I don't have

a degree. I haven't finished.

And, and, and she asked me some technical questions and I didn't

answer them very well because. I did, I, I was a technical

person, but I didn't know how to answer the thing she was asking.

And so she's like, why should I hire you because you don't have

a degree and you didn't really know a lot of these questions.

And I said, you know, Long story short, I will be the kind of

person that will figure it out like if you just give me a

chance. And so Long story short, that

job is what kind of started the recovery for us.

And I was there for like 5 years, 4-5 years.

And I moved from Technical Support to network operations

and I kept applying for network engineering.

But they, it was the whole cycle of we won't hire you because you

don't have experience and you don't have experience because we

won't hire you. And Indiana's not like a hub for

technology, you know, So there's really not that much

opportunity. And so I'd went on my first

business trip for my current, the job in Indiana and it was to

Denver, Co for this new piece of equipment we were going to

deploy. And I went to, I visited church

there and I was considering at this time, I was kind of getting

better at my job for not hiring me.

I had applied like 8 times. And, and so we were, I had

talked to Amber, hey, what if we moved, you know, somewhere with

some better opportunity. And so I went to the service in

Denver, Co, Landmark Tabernacle, and there was the gifts of the

Spirit moved there that service. And he had asked us to reach out

to two or three people around us and tell them the number one

thing we've been praying over. And I told these two guys, I

don't even know these guys, 'cause I was just visiting.

And I said, hey, I've been praying.

If God is closing this door and opening another door, should I

move for work and whatnot? And, and then the tongues and

interpretation came forward later and it, and it said, and

the, the interpretation was you've been looking for

direction and I'm telling you it's time to move forward.

And so I kind of took that as like, OK, maybe it's time to

move on. So the interpretation of that

service was you've been looking for direction and it's time to

move forward. And kind of took that as an

let's explore some possibilities of moving for for work

opportunity, better work opportunity, because that we had

been in such a hard financial time that we really needed that

for our family. And so God opened up just an

incredible amount of doors to get me to initially NASA, which

is what brought the job that brought me here.

And I mean, I could spend 10 minutes just about how God

opened those doors. But and, and to live gate

specifically, you know, once I had that job offer to move here,

of course, I needed to find a new home church.

And I had looked online and tried to find, you know, what

churches were here. Think I found the Lifegate

Facebook page and it confused me at first because it didn't look

like a church. And that was, it was right when

you guys got in this building and the walls still have the

green stripe and shelves and carts and whatnot.

And I initially was like, Nope, it kept looking.

And the first church we visited was in Decatur, but we didn't

know where, where we're going to end up.

And Decatur is a little far away from where we were going to be,

what we thought we were going to be.

So I had visited here while Amber was still in Indiana

because I lived here for 10 weeks before they came down here

because they were finishing the school year.

And so I visited by myself on a Wednesday night, went out with

the youth group here, even though I was not in the youth

group, but went out with the youth group.

And what I had felt in the service, like just the worship

service, I was like, this is the place.

I mean, like, obviously the construction and everything,

Visually, it looked a little dishevelled.

But when I told Amber, I was like, maybe this is the life,

this is the church. And she was looking at the

pictures and, you know, she's like timing look.

Around. So but then when she came the

first Sunday, I think it was, and it was just very refreshing

move of God. And it didn't I, I, we didn't

visit anywhere else. We just instantly felt like this

is where we needed to be. Yeah.

I know. I know.

You. You.

Kind of like, you know, could go.

All on and on about God opening doors for, for jobs and, and

stuff like that. And you obviously know when I

say this, I mean it, but to me and, and we're going to get into

some miraculous things that have happened, like actual

supernatural miraculous things. But it is a miraculous thing to

be able to get a, a job and a career, especially when you're

so desperate for it. I mean it, it I like in like

getting getting that career, getting that job, finally

getting it after after searching and trying.

I mean, I know what it's like to apply for 150 a day jobs knowing

good and well. You're like, man, if these

people call me like, yeah, I'll take it, but this is really not.

But I just I got to get something and to finally get it,

man. To me, I would say that's

everybody's situation is different, but that's.

A miracle thing, right? There, I mean that's that's got

it's liking to finally being able to see after so long not

being able to see so and and it sounds it, I know for a fact

that that is something that has impacted a lot of people in this

in this church personally as far as just careers and trying to

get to that getting that job that like, hey, this is the one.

Not only will it will it pay the bills, but now I can be involved

and I'm not on a terrible schedule.

So I don't want to downplay God's ability to take care of us

and get us those those blessings because he still does do it and

it and it is something that's definitely it's it's a nice

thing to have. It's a nice it's a good thing.

And I say that just because, you know, I've been through that and

I know there are people who are going through it.

And God's blessed us with, with jobs and careers that we're

thankful for. And, and it's definitely

something he still cares even if it seems, even if it seems so

trivial, like it's not a health issue, but you know, he still

cares about us and still cares about us being able to have a

job that we like and that that can do what we need it to do

well in the the tough times. You know, it's easy to be like,

well, why didn't God help me then?

But looking back, you see how all of that was shaping you as a

person. So I had mentioned there were

times where we I tell Amber we have enough gas to get to

church. We don't have enough gas to get

back. But we always said God wants us

in that in his house. So we're going to go to church

and God's going to make way. And on multiple occasions, I

didn't know how we're going to get home.

And it would always be a random handshake that had a $20 bill.

One time my pastor had it in Indiana, shook his hand and

there's $500 in his hand. And it was, you know, that

secret slip of the money. And he said, someone said that

God told them to give this to you today.

And you're like, that's a miracle.

Like you have no idea, like the timing.

Another time somebody Amber had graduated from, had graduated

and this was like a couple months later and, and it was

another one of the services where it was a Wednesday night.

We didn't have money to get, we had enough gas to get there.

And then this lady, this older lady came up and she goes, I

forgot to give Amber her graduation card and it had money

in it. And it's just like so many of

those opportunities. And so you look back and you're

like, God was doing something in the, the way I, I think he was

changing my priorities, but he was also taking care of me.

And there was multiple times, at least two or three times where

we would open our front door and there'd be groceries on the

floor on the, on the door front. And God just spoke to somebody,

bring him groceries. So, you know, God has always

provided, even when I talk about the down times, he was providing

during those times. Absolutely.

I I think it's important too. Because.

We're by no means prosperity doctrine people that, oh, give

your life to God and then you're never going to have any issues

again. But I I think the benefit of

that too, is your perspective of a the hard times, because I

don't think financial stability is just a mark that Oh, God's

got you, you know, OK, you're doing right.

But even in those times you're saying God provided for you.

And I think a testament to you as somebody that I want to touch

on Cam would say this as well, more so for him personally even.

But you went through the doors that God opened up right.

And then a lot of stuff came from that.

One thing that strikes me about you and your character is you're

not one that gate keeps that or is stingy with anything there.

You help out everybody, even as simple as me.

You are actually really good at building resumes and all.

And when I was applying for this job, God opened up a door for

me. I've been struggling financially

and some job opened up for me the potential to get it.

And I was like, hey, Eric, do you mind taking a look at my

resume? And he was like, hey, I'll give

you my format that I use, blah, blah, blah.

And it totally shifted the way I built resumes.

I'm like, Dang, Eric really knows what he's doing.

And that may not even be anything big to you, but for me,

I was even like, that's my, that's my blueprint now anyways

for resumes. And that's so simple of just

sharing a link of a resume, but things like that.

And there's several people throughout our church, you can

name them if you want, you know, do a little humble brag, but

there's so many people that you've went out to help.

And I, I relate that to the groceries.

You may not see it that type of way, but you've put me on the

stuff I'm studying right now doing things.

Cameron was in a career field. You helped him in an area where

he was absolutely miserable. You helped him into an Ave. and

opened the door, if you will, even just for him mentally say,

hey, these are things you can do and things you can explore.

And I think if he was here for this one, he'd be giving you

major props for that because you you did change his life.

He was miserable where he was at.

I appreciate the kind words, but I I.

I'm I'm not saying that just to give you a.

Little check on the shoulder. I think it's a lesson for us as

well, though it's not as simple as, hey, if you can make it

through the hard times, then you're blessed and then it's

over. You're just good.

You know, I think it's a testament to once God has given

you that opportunity, man, use it.

You know, absolutely help people up and I think that's helped

several people in our congregation alone and and I

think you'll continue reaping benefits from that as well.

I feel like it the times. Of always being the person on

the needing end for so many years and like having so many

people in the church who were willing to help.

I mean, there was times where I, I didn't have a job.

I was applying a job and there were people in the church in

Indiana who would let me go work with them like contractors who

had their own businesses and I know they didn't need my help.

And so like God really kind of put that on me and Amber's heart

to, you know, now that God has blessed us so immensely that

we're going to be the we're going to try to do the same, you

know, Well, I want to say that. The church is a family.

That's what we all are. We call it we, we when we, when

we reference each other, we say brother so and so, sister so and

so. And in a family, siblings, even

if they might go at it or, or whatever, they, they're, they're

there for each other, you know, and I've that's, that's, that's

an attitude that is, I'm not going to say is void because

that would be wrong. But definitely there could be

more of, and I'm one of those that you, you know, you helped

me a lot. I bugged, I bugged you so much

when I was trying to get a job for so many years.

I was like, Eric, I was like, dude, I need help.

And you were like, dude, apply for this, apply for that.

Hey, I talked so and so I and I learned from those, from those

interviews that you got me. I didn't get anything, but I

learned from those so that when I was given an opportunity, I

was like, Oh, I can nail this. And there's, there should be

more of that, I think. And, and it's on me too, just

being transparent, but of being able to say like, you know, hey,

these, these people who are, who are with us here like these,

this is our family. And you know, when you see them

in need, regardless of what it is to, just to lend out a hand

to, to try. I mean, I can't tell you how

much of A, of an, of how much it, it, it, it, it made me feel

like for me when, when I was bugging you so much and you were

like, hey, I, I talked to my so and so manager or hey, I put a

referral here and there. And like so many people will

say, Oh yeah, I'll, I'll go and I'll, I'll, I'll say a word for

you. And they never do because they

don't want to stick their neck out.

But like, you were willing to do that.

He, he talked about Cam, but you were willing to do that for me

as well. And that means a lot to me to

know like, OK, you don't know me from from Adam really, because

I, I wasn't able to be at the church, Holly dog.

So how often I was working. But to, to be willing to, to

stick your neck out at your job and, and say, Hey, I'll, I'll,

I'll put a, I'll try to help you.

I'm going to try to help you. I'm going to try to help you and

actually do it. If we could get more of that.

And like I said, this, that's talking, this is me talking to

me. If we could get more than that

man, just it would make our, it would make our church feel even

more like a family, which is how I think it's supposed to be.

I've always said that. I've always been.

Closer to my church family than my biological family.

I've always felt that, which is good.

I think there's a aspect. To that community, you know, and

I think as we continue to grow, it's difficult.

New people get in everything. You don't want it to become a

clique of, hey, we've got our family, you know, and I think

that's what's great of, well, you know, and you're welcomed

like everybody welcomed. Me and like instantly just felt

like I was part of Lifegate. That's good.

That's and and now I think. You're of that next wave as new

people come in, you're kind of one of those that's established

in people's mind, you know, and then it's up to you and newer

people as well welcoming them as also, I feel like that's the

biggest part of the community aspect.

There should never be a point where, oh, hey, the the door is

closed. Like we kind of got our art

group. Absolutely.

And that's another thing of why I love.

Live gate so much is because and I and I have nothing negative to

say about my old church. Like I said, I owe a lot to

brother Mark Abernathy and but there's such a feeling of life

like a freshness. There's always visitors here and

it's, it's great to be able to come in and see someone new all

the time. It's incredible.

And we needed Lifegate to, to, to grow spiritually because it

wasn't just a move, it was a move for financial work reasons,

but it also was, we've grown so much spiritually as well.

So Lifegate has taken us to the next level spiritually, and

that's a testament to the family atmosphere here and like how

well we're allowed to integrate. Yeah.

So before I, before, before we, we, we, we start to close it

down here. We've talked a lot about how God

has, he's made himself very present in your life.

That's for sure. Absolutely.

But I, I know from what you've told us in the past, so I'm

going to get you to say it again.

But there have been a few times where he has made himself

present in your life in a supernatural way, not just

groceries on the front door, which is great, which is great.

But I'm talking like, wow. Like, yeah, absolutely.

This should. This is not.

Possible kind of a. Thing if you could dive into

some of those for me, yeah. So 22 big ones.

That are most, most people that I'm close to have heard.

But in 2009, Amber was pregnant with Bella and it was October.

Our church was doing a trunk or treat deal at the park like we

did every other year and I was having either shocks or struts

on my truck. I can't remember which ones are

on the front but they need to replace really badly.

So I pulled into my mother in law's house because her husband,

my wife's stepdad was a former mechanic.

And I was trying to do it really quickly so I can make truck or

treat. I don't want to be late.

And it was it was a work truck, but it was my truck.

So I was responsible like it I owned it.

So I had to fix it. And so we jacked the truck up.

I didn't use Jack stands really stupid, just being very

careless. And we were trying to get a bolt

out that wouldn't come out and we tried to use an angle grinder

to melt the bolt, basically melt through the bolt, but it

wouldn't come out. So he, he was like was hit it on

the back, like hit it from the backside with a hammer and it'll

probably come out because it's heated up now.

And I got on my stomach and I slid underneath the engine

compartment of the truck. So dumb.

And I hit the bolt and as soon as I hit the bolt, the Jack fell

off or the the truck fell off the Jack and the truck fell on

my back. And I know how much the truck

weighs because I was doing windows and doors and I would

scrap the aluminum windows. So I was weighing my truck all

the time today. It was depending on how much

stuff I had on there. It was 6000 to 6500 lbs this

truck. And it was the engine

compartment, which is the heavier part of the the truck.

And it fell on my back And instantly I just accept I'm

dead. Like you don't survive this.

Like it's not humanly possible to survive this.

Like it's human bodies cannot hold this much weight.

And so I'm just praying in my head.

I can't breathe because I can't expand my chest.

Like I can't take a breath and I'm just praying whatever's not

under the blood. Forgive me God, because I'm I'm

dead. Like there's no hope.

My wife's stepdad had had dump trucks, so he had another Jack

that he used on my running rails, my running boards on my

truck to get the truck off. And so the truck was off of me

after probably, I don't know, he says like 45 seconds or so.

There's no, I don't, I don't know how much.

Time passed, but. So he got the truck off me and

I'm laying there and I can't breathe.

Like I can't take a breath and I can't feel my legs and I'm just

waiting to die and my he comes back out with my mother-in-law

and my sister-in-law who themselves don't serve God.

But they got down and started praying for me and I went from

not feeling my legs and can't breathe.

Like I can't even attempt to take take a breath like I

couldn't and gasping just like choking on nothing and.

They started praying and then instantly the feeling came back

in my legs and I took a massive inhale, breath and I felt 100%

fine from that moment forward. And the they had called a

Lifeline helicopter because they reported that a truck fell on

me. So I stayed on the floor.

I was on the ground, gravel driveway and I was just, I

laying there by the time there were people were trick or

treating. So there was a cop literally on

the street when they, the call came in.

And so he came, he was there pretty much as soon as they got

the truck off me or well after they prayed for me.

And, and he said the ambulance is coming, they're going to take

you to the school 'cause that's the only place big enough for

the helicopter to land. And I said I feel perfectly fine

now. And he, he's like, well, that

doesn't make sense. And so I'm just laying there and

the ambulance shows up and they put me on the stretcher or

whatever and, and I tell them, you know, I, I, I think I'm fine

like now. And they're like, well, that

doesn't make sense. You probably have internal

bleeding. If you don't go, you're probably

going to die. And so they take me to, I told

him I don't want to go to the helicopter because I don't have

insurance and so I'm not paying that.

And they're like, if you have internal bleeding, you're

probably going to die. And I was like, I feel fine

though. And they're just like, well,

that doesn't make sense. So they took me to the hospital,

the close hospital. The helicopter flew there to

wait for them to say, yeah, you do have internal bleeding and

you're dying. And so they do a bunch of

checks. The as soon as they put me

through the emergency room doors, the doctor says, I

thought you said a truck fell on him.

And they said it did. I saw the truck and so they run

a bunch of tests and doctor came in and they said we can't find

anything wrong with you. And he's like, it doesn't make

any sense. The human body can't hold that

amount of weight. No.

And I said no, I know. And I left the hospital an hour

and a half later walking out and I never had a bruise.

Didn't even have a bruise. What I mean so you're you're.

The the family, they saw that right?

I mean, they saw, yeah, that truck on mother-in-law,

father-in-law, sister-in-law, and they got down and.

Prayed for you by the time Amber.

Yeah, by the. Time Amber had got.

There I was already being put into the ambulance, so she

didn't see the that part. But yeah, yeah, my family all

saw that. They saw me gasping, they saw me

gasping, but I couldn't expand my chest.

So I was basically just choking. And then they they were crying

and praying and instantly I feel like that would be a huge faith

builder for me. Yes.

Did they? Did they, did they talk about

that? It was a huge faith builder for

me. But.

Now that we. Really haven't.

We've talked about it a few times, I guess just here and

there, but and my mother-in-law attended here for a short period

of time. But no, it was I guess for me.

That's good. What?

That's good too. What part of the truck?

Was on you. I'm trying the engine.

Right, Yeah. So the engine compartment I.

Slid right underneath. The middle of the truck on my

stomach. Which kids?

If you're listening incredibly stupid.

Like use Jack stands. Yeah, and I didn't use the Crick

Jack. For the truck either nice,

that's good. So it was a compounded, you

know. God saves.

Us from ourselves sometimes. Doesn't he?

But it's a testimony that I have told and.

Witnessed 2 I've worked with and I've seen when I've told them

the story, I've seen people like one person said I just got

chills. So you know, it's a it's a

fantastic testimony that I shouldn't be here.

I shouldn't be alive. The other one is I was 16

driving to attend church with my mother an hour away, and I'd

stayed up all night on Saturday. I the church in Brazil IN which

is where I was going at at the time.

I, I, I went to Emmanuel on Martinsville, but I still had

friends from Brazil so I would go to their Saturday night use

service sometimes and so I stayed up with them all all

night. Saturday I was driving to

Martinsville and had it on cruise control and fell asleep

behind the wheel and car drifted across oncoming traffic and then

went off the road into a little ravine ditch beside the road and

it was on cruise control and it was flat enough that it just

kept driving. And I was just out, like out

like a light and it just kept driving.

And this little ravine right beside the road until it got to

an embankment where another Rd. was perpendicular and it was

basically just a Rockwall. And my car slammed into that

wall at 55 miles an hour and launched the car back over

front, flipping until it flew over the road and crashed.

Finally stopped on the other side of the road and the car was

completely demolished. And the guy that was behind me

had pulled off to the side of the road to come help and I had

got the door open and crawled out of the car.

And I stood up and turned around and looked at the car.

And the car was just destroyed. And he, he was like running

across the road and he just stopped and he looked at me.

He goes, are you OK? And I go, yeah, I think I'm

fine. And I was like, dust or not, I

was covered in gravel dust. I said, yeah, I think I'm think

I'm OK. And he's like, your car was like

30 feet off the ground. And that was another instance

where I walked away. I had a seat belt kind of seat

belt burn on my shoulder, but car was destroyed and I walked

away because so I I actually woke up right before the car hit

and the only thing like I just had a split second and I said

and I just said Jesus. And as soon as the car hit it

just started flipping. Wow.

So. That's two times that I should

probably be dead. It's got to be traumatizing too

dude to go. Through that like man, that

that. I'm surprised you didn't have

PTSD for a while unless you did. I had PTSD from getting.

Underneath vehicles. I say that, yeah, that's crazy

because. I never even went through what

you went through, and I and I. Have that too.

It's it's wild. You know, I've, I've seen how

heavy that stuff is and I'm like, yeah, I'm not.

I don't, yeah, I try to, I try to not go under cars these days.

That's fair, that's fair. That's crazy.

Though, and that is a good testament to be able to tell

people, I think that's too huge to holding on to our stories.

Like you said, I mean, we're, we're on a path.

God gives us trials and he gives us moments, landmarks.

And man, if we just keep that to ourselves in this little

personal landmark, that's good. It has its purpose.

But sharing that with people, that says a lot.

You've gone through things for a reason and I think you're using

it to the best of your ability right now.

And I love that man. I'm excited about the future.

What holds you? For one, I know that not too

long ago, you you got your license, right?

Yeah. I felt that's a whole.

Story in itself, but I felt God was, you know, taking me to

another level and not necessarily that I feel like I

should be a preacher or anything or that's not why I did it.

I just really wanted to obviously one of God's will.

And so I prayed and fasted about it and, and I, and I, I was, I

went on an extended fast and was like, should I get my license?

Because, you know, I don't feel like I'm a preacher and, and not

that you have to be a preacher, but the process in general was

very beneficial just for my own confidence level and just my own

knowledge level. So for that alone.

But another thing that was really incredible about that

story, and I'll try to keep it short because I've been going

really long, but I was fasting about the getting my license and

I was like, you know, let kind of tell me if this is what you

want me to do. Do you want me to get my

license, guy? Or is this what you want?

So I wanted to extend the fast and I was having some really

fantastic, powerful personal prayer meetings.

But at the end of the fast, I still didn't feel like a

direction on whether I should get my license or not.

Like I don't want to just do it just because like, is this what

you want me to do? Good.

And so we had visited Indiana, we were visiting a church in

Indiana that my kids adopted grandparents go to.

And so I was states away and I was like, you know, why wouldn't

I feel a direction like that? That was the whole point of the

fast. And then Lexi, who was back here

in Alabama, texted me and Amber like 5 minutes after the service

ended that we were attending. And the preacher of that service

preached on how to hear the voice of God.

And I was like, man, that's like the perfect title for what I'm

needing right now. And Lexi and she, she's OK with

me sharing this, but she said I had a dream last night that I

just feel like God really wants me to share with you.

And she said we were sitting down and we were talking about

how to hear the voice of God, the same exact title as the

message we. And she said sometimes it's like

Noah and you have the complete blueprints.

You know exactly what to do, but you don't understand the why

because the the thought of rain is foreign to you.

Sometimes she says it's like Abraham and you have the end

goal, father of many nations, but you don't understand the how

because you're old and barren, he said.

But the third type is it's like Peter, where all you know is

what the next step is. Follow me.

And I was like, that's exactly what I need to hear.

I don't know what I'm going to do with it.

I don't know the blueprints. I don't know the angle, but I

know that this is what God wanted me to do this the next

step. And so I went through the

process of getting licensure. I got that sometime last this

sometime this early this year. I can't remember when it was,

but yeah. So the whole time you're, you're

like. You just had this you just had

this feeling like God wanted you to go into a deeper walk and I'm

from what I'm not getting. You're what kept coming back to

you is as well getting getting licensed, not necessarily for

the title of it, but I'm assuming for the wisdom

knowledge gained through the process.

Exactly. And I've told a few people, I

said. I've learned more.

I've studied the Bible and learned more in the last year

and a half then probably my first 37 years, you know,

combined, just because all I had learned up to that point was

what I, you know, I, I'd learned obviously things and, and and

had experienced in the God, but like diving into the word of

God. It's been fantastic in the last

year and a half, the growing process, knowledge and

spiritual. So, So what?

What would your what would you say to people who might be?

Feeling the same thing, like let's just say you got people

out there who are feeling like they have this feeling that God

wants more out of them, but they don't know what they don't know

what what it is or how it is. What would be what would be your

advice to that person? Like if someone came to you,

Said, said, said. Eric.

I feel like God wants more from me, but I have no idea how or

what I'm supposed to do or, or whatever the case may be.

What's your, what's your like? Hey, well, here's where you can

start. And this is what, this is what I

would do kind of thing. I would say definitely fast.

Because that's something that got us challenged me with since

moving to Alabama. And I feel like I am closer to

God when I go on fasts and I'm able to hear the voice of God or

the direction of God more when I fast than any other time.

And so God's the, the devil's definitely not going to ask more

of you spiritually. So obviously God is pulling at

your heart and so fast about it. But something Brother Penton

told me when I approached him about it, he's just like,

obviously God is stirring you. And so the thing we have to do

is take action. And so he gave me some goals,

Hey, let's work on this, let's do this.

And so definitely talk to your talk to pastor about it, fast

and pray. But if and I, and I honestly

feel like that helped boost my confidence when I reached out to

Shawna. I, I think if I hadn't went

through that promise, I probably wouldn't have reached out to

Shawna, but it gave me a confidence of going through that

material because there's a bunch of requirements.

So you have to to go through and just for me personally, it gave

me some more confidence on what I knew and what I believed and

how to voice that in a witnessing setting.

Would you say it's probably good for people even if they.

Have no intention of getting licensed to take those courses

anyways because from what I understand you don't have to

necessarily get officially licensed to take those courses

and take those those studies. It would you say that's probably

like a wreck like, hey, you got to get licensed, but you you

need to do these because, oh, absolutely that 100.

Percent, I think so and I've talked to Amber about it about

how it's one thing to believe something it's nothing to be

able to defend it and I think what especially with well

anybody but like the young people is can you defend what

you believe and going through that material is definitely

foundational and helping you know how to defend what you

believe. I think it's super beneficial

for anyone to go through those courses.

Are you're not? You're not doing any.

Kind of like Bible studies yourself with.

Like group Bible study groups or anything.

Are you, I know you were, you had mentioned something that one

of the linked. I've been doing Bible studies

with Shawna since NAYC and then I did Bible and billiards at my

house for two different sessions or two different link sessions

and there was always a devotional there.

I was usually 10 minutes or less, but after Shawna moves

here, I would like to. That's something I was looking

towards doing. I just recently got the new

exploring God's Word charts, so they updated the graphics on all

that. But I've really been wanting to

do some more Bible studies like with group settings.

When you do, when you when you get to that point, let me know.

I would. Be.

I think it's always good. Like you said, group settings

and. Everything too, because you're

able. To have it as a presentation of

we're learning together and I think everybody is, no matter

what, like there's never a time where, hey, I know everything

about God and I've got all the answers.

I don't need to study anymore. You know, I like that a whole

lot. I also one thing that stuck out

to me from all of this, you've gone from the lows of the valley

to the peaks of success, right? But you're still hungry, man.

You're hungry for God. You're hungry to continue

working and you're at this point where it's never just on cruise

control. That may be from your wreck, the

PTSD, not wanting to put it on cruise control, but I love that

so much because, you know, I feel like we can get complacent

sometimes. We get saved, everything's going

well and then we get a little weary and well doing and we can

just kind of kind of coast. There's kind of a motto I live

my life by and if you ask my. Kids, what it is, they would be

able to to recite it to you because I try to drill it into

their head. And it's originally from a

financial, it's like a financial quote, but I've altered it

because the quote is rich people have what and this I don't like

the quote, That's why I changed it.

But it's rich people have what poor people don't because rich

people do what poor people won't.

And I changed it to be successful people have what

unsuccessful people don't because successful people do

what unsuccessful people won't. And I don't just mean finances.

I mean like I, I try to apply that in every facet of my life.

If you want a spiritual walk with God that is more than the

average person, then you have to do more than the average person.

So you have to be involved. You have to be willing to serve.

You have to you can't be too good to clean a toilet like me

and Amber were on the clean schedule 40 years.

Like you're not too good to clean like that's right.

Be involved. Our boy Johnny right here.

I think this past weekend was. His This man ain't too good for

it. I was here until 9:00.

Last night with with Brother Pitton calling me while I was

here saying, hey, you're still up there.

I'm like, yeah, he goes. Well, the Roomba stuck.

Did you figure out why? Oh.

Let me look. Ah, there's a whole bag of

pencils down here 'cause they're just thrown all over the floor

under these little lockers. So let me start digging pencils

out of this room, bud. Figuring that out was something

you said. I'm maybe with.

Eric May, I think there's the podcast, but you said something

about you don't care if NVIDIA stock goes down if you're not

investing in it. Yeah, I forget what that was.

Yeah. But basically, like if you, if

you want to have more than the, the average, the typical, then

you're going to have to invest the more than the average and

the more than the typical. So that's the model.

I every fast my life. Like I, I try not to be on

cruise control just because like I, I, I want to have a higher

level of spiritual walk with God than I had last year.

And, and I kind of gauge my walk like am I, do I feel like I've

closer to God this year than I was last year.

That's kind of how I look at it. That's a good benchmark and.

I think Mac touched on something similar he that challenged me a

lot because I think I struggle with scheduling and ADHD.

Anyways I've been trying to be more intentional about setting a

time, starting my mornings right, reading the word, diving

into stuff and staying intentional with our walk.

But you're right about that. The buy in.

I'm, I'm very grateful that for one, our, our whole

congregation, the, the community that's here at Lifegate, I feel

like we've got a, a decent percentage of people that are

doing that and maybe a decent percentage of people that want

to buy in more and don't really know how to get started on that.

Grateful for you. Of course, I'm very grateful.

You came from Indiana. You've been a blessing to

Lifegate. Wonderful voice.

We love when you sing weeks and weeks in a row.

Well, thank you. Yeah.

That's it's just, it's amazing everything that.

You've gone through. And I'm going to, I'm going to

phrase that as it's amazing the amount of things that God's

carried you through. And I don't think you'd have a

problem with me saying it that way.

No, not at all. To, to, to just be going through

so much. It's, you know, a lot of people

say it, you know. Nowhere in the Bible does does

the Lord ever say that living for him will be easy.

It never says that matter of fact.

I mean, I would be willing to bet there's off the top of my

head is too tired to right now, but it's probably stuff in there

to say. It might even be towards the

opposite of that. I mean, there's going to be

times where it's it's going to be hard because of this.

Actually, now that I think about it, Jesus did say like, they're

going to hate you. The world's going to hate you

for my sake. It's going to be rough, but man,

I would much Lord, don't, don't take this as a challenge.

I would much rather go through tough times with him than good

times without him because I don't think you can ever truly

have a good time without him. And just, you know, through all

the things that you've been through, I'm sure it was that

faith of he's got me, He's got me, He's got me.

That kept you from just giving up, you know, So I, I think that

if I could, if I could summarize this, this episode so far for

anybody who's listening, it seems to be more of one of those

like, man, just because the tunnel was dark doesn't mean

there's not a light at the end of it.

You just got to keep going forward like you like, like you

mentioned it with Peter. I mean, he was the only one that

got out there and, and walked on the water and he had no idea

what was going to happen. All he just all he just said was

Lord bid me come. And once God said come, he he

did it. So I appreciate.

You I appreciate you sitting down with us.

This is going to be a little bit of a longer one, but I enjoyed

it. Apologies.

Yeah. No, no, no, no.

You just wouldn't stop talking. It was all the.

It was all. The intro, see, we, we, we

started talking on a different topic than just diving into your

story. So that's kind of it's my fault.

It's my fault you got you got someone who doesn't.

Talk very much to stop, not. Stop talking.

I know I love it. None.